Mr. Bergoglio, tear down that Vatican wall!
The Pope said these things as Trump was being inaugurated. His point was unmistakable. He said: “The Germans at that time also wanted to protect themselves with ‘walls and barbed wire so that others cannot take away their identity.'”
This is an extraordinarily strained analogy. Hitler after 1940 kept the Jews from emigrating and put them in concentration camps so he could kill them. Trump wants to stop immigration from jihad terror hotbeds in order to keep Islamic jihadists from killing us. For the Pope to liken the two shows that he is more of a shallow Leftist ideologue than any kind of spiritual or moral authority.
“Leave them; they are blind guides. And if a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.” (Matthew 15:14)
“Pope warns against populism and ‘saviours’ like Hitler,” AFP, January 21, 2017:
…In an hour-long interview with Spanish newspaper El Pais conducted as Donald Trump was being sworn in as US president, the pontiff also condemned the idea of using walls and barbed wire to keep out foreigners.
“Of course crises provoke fears and worries,” he said but added that for him “the example of populism in the European sense of the word is Germany in 1933.
“Germany… was looking for a leader, someone who would give her back her identity and there was a little man named Adolf Hitler who said ‘I can do it’.”
“Hitler did not steal power,” the pope said. “He was elected by his people and then he destroyed his people.”
The Germans at that time also wanted to protect themselves with “walls and barbed wire so that others cannot take away their identity,” he said.
“The case of Germany is classic,” he said, adding that Hitler gave them a “deformed identity and we know what it produced.”
Pope Francis however underscored that it was too early to pass judgement on Trump.
“Let’s see. Let’s see what he does and then we will evaluate,” he said.

Tradiguy says
He’s not my Pope! He’s not even a Catholic. Trump is going to defeat the globalist bastards and Bergolio is one of them. The Catholic Church was destroyed back in 1968 at Vatican 2. The real church is still alive and will survive. Whatever Bergolio says, it’s a lie. Check what Soros and his henchmen are saying- funny that! It’s the same thing.
Pong says
“The real church is still alive and will survive.”
Post the address. I will sign up.
Adrian Johnson says
The real church doesn’t have any address but yours. Just try to find a priest who says Mass devoutly, and use the sacrament of Penance / reconciliation as frequently as possible — if you can’t get good sermons, get the old classic spiritual works off the internet and let the Holy Spirit nourish you through good books by saints. You will be led to “connect” with others like yourself to encourage each other quietly until times get better. Keep your head down, deepen your interior life of prayer, and keep the faith.
Christianblood says
This Pope is EVIL!
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
@Adrian Johnson
Good advice Adrian, confession, the Eucharist gets one fired up, if I may, the Rosary is particularly helpful and a novena, to the sacred Heart of Jesus could possibly be of assistance to the troubled .
God bless you
Benedict says
Very nicely put. Be blessed, and Oh to be in front of the Tabernacle in silence, is in it a different world by itself
Adrian Johnson says
Donovan Nuera writes about the “incredible stained glass window of the Holy Spirit in Rome” It’s even more incredible because it’s not stained glass — its all thin sections of alabaster– which explains why the window is all in hues of brown, tan, yellow, and white — those are the only natural colours of alabaster.
The Bernini sculptures of the four Fathers of the church around the chair of St Peter include (left to right) St Ambrose, St Athanasius, St Augustine, and St John Chrysostom.
Barbara Forshee says
SSPX-Roman Catholic Church before Vatican II–Even Francis gave them “permission” to hear confessions in year of mercy. Their chapels are in every state. There is your answer.
joseph dudan says
Even Bergolio cant destroy the Catholic faith despite his placement in Peter’s chair; recently he stated he was all for validating transgender marriages. There is no ‘bottom’ to the pit known as liberalism, a pit he and his accomplice George Soros share with pride.
Elizabeth says
He’s such a nasty, nasty little man (Bergoglio).
Les says
Settle down people and quit being reckless
“Being afraid or rejoicing beforehand because of something that might happen is, in my view, quite reckless,” the pope said. “We will see. We will see what he does and then we will judge — always on the concrete. Christianity either is concrete or it is not Christianity.”
Pope Francis regarding Trump
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Pope Francis my Pope
Pope Francis mentioned Hitlers rise to power in relation to European affairs.
The interview happens to be quite wide in range, discussing issues in the Catholic Church.
Here is the section that deals with President Trump.
Q. Your Holiness, going back to the global problems you just mentioned, Donald Trump is just now being sworn in as president of the United States, and the whole world is tense because of it. What do you make of it?
A. I think that we must wait and see. I don’t like to get ahead of myself, nor to judge people prematurely. We will see how he acts, what he does, and then I will form an opinion. But being afraid or rejoicing beforehand because of something that might happen is, in my view, quite unwise. It would be like prophets predicting calamities or windfalls that will not come to pass. We will see what he does and will judge accordingly. Always work with the specific. Christianity is either specific or it is not Christianity
pandainc says
Sir, you assume that many of us care what that man’s opinions are. Your church picked another loser this time (not all popes were, but some darned sure were, and this guy surely is).
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Dear Sir,
Judging from the comments on the thread people do care and you to, may I add.
If not you would not Know from these darned Leftist liberal propaganda sources, which pope was a loser and which was not.
Are you a Loser dear Sir?
manu lui says
HE IS ANTI-SEMITE. HE THINK HE IS FOR THE POOR? WELL HE IS NOT, HE IS FOR HIMSELF. HE IS SELFISH, ANTI-CHRISTIAN AND AN ANTI-CHRIST. WHAT HE IS DOING IS ALL FOR SHOW. ITS ALL ABOUT POPE FRANCIS. HE IS AN INTRUDER . REGARDING THE BLIGHT OF THE MIDDLE EAST CHRISTIAN, POPE FRANCIS IGNORED TOTALLY. THERE WAS NO CONDEMNATION OF THE MUSLIM (ISIS) MURDERERS EVEN WITH WHAT’S BEEN GOING ON AROUND EUROPE.. HE WAS SILENT THROUGHOUT THE ORDEAL THE MIDDLE EAST CHRISTIANS WENT THROUGH. THE THING IS, YOU CAN’T HEAR A SWEET SOUND FROM A RUSTY OLD TRUMPET DUE TO RUST AND DUST. FRANCIS HAS DONE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AT LARGE NO FAVOURS LIKE OBAMA HAS DONE NOTHING TO BENEFIT THE ORDINARY AMERICAN BUT TO HELP THE MUSLIMS THAT WAS BROUGHT INTO AMERICA UNDER A FALSE PRETENSE AS REFUGEES. GOD WILL BLESS DONALD TRUMP FOR SPEAKING THE TRUTH ABOUT THE SHIT THE WORLD IS GOING THROUGH. MAY GOD BLESS DONALD TRUMP AND GOD BLESS AMERICA.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Dear manu lui
Pope Francis clearly says : ” But being afraid or rejoicing beforehand because of something that might happen is, in my view, quite unwise.”
Here Pope Francis is saying in relation to President Trump: Its O K to rejoice however it is silly to anticipate the negative which has not happened.
Pope Francis has condemned the atrocities of Muslims. You might not have read or heard that, however it is not our fault that the majority of the M S M practice a Left wing ideology and you like many on this thread get your info that you believe about the Catholic Church. This is not a recent phenomena but an ongoing attack since the 16th century, so welcome to the Catholic experience, if you have just woken up to it through the lies spread by the M S M concerning President Trump.
The Catholic definition of a refugee is different to what the M S M or your politicians describe: look it up.
The Catholic acknowledges the right for all governments to formulate their policies of immigration and refugees.
The Catholic Church acknowledges the rights of all governments to implement vetting a process that insures the safety of its own citizens which is the right and goal of good governance.
Do not blame the Catholic Church about the issues, it is your secular governments which your countryman have voted for that causes your grief.
It is your secular Governments who refuse entry of persecuted Christian refugees to your lands and favor Islam through its policy.
You know what I should be angry with you however I am not. The Catholic Church has been under attack from secularist since the enlightenment, the issues you face are of your own making.
My opinion concerning fighting a common cause with secularist is that we Catholics need to stay away from you as you a spiritually weak, rather you join us.
God bless President Trump and America and Pope Francis
beaubear says
you think he’d know that walls are part of the bible, Nehemiah, a cup bearer to the king of Persia . he was given permission to rebuild the walls in Jerusalem w/ God’s blessings I used to be a Catholic but one day I heard an Evangelical pastor preach, i realized, Catholic leaders do not encourage us to read the bible, and they deny , and deny that Mary and Joseph had other children. Yes, she was a virgin , pregnant by the Holy Spirit but after he was born , Joseph and Mary consummated their marriage -Matthew 1:26
Don’t the Mexican’s have a wall south of their border?
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
I am a Catholic and I read the bible, in fact if Catholics go to mass on a daily basis we would go through the bible ever three years, just through the readings of the Mass in our liturgical year we are now in A next is B then C, we then start again. So we hear the Bible at Mass and we read it at home
Catholics assembled the bible that all Christians read, so we are bible orientated.
I am curious about your last assertion, you are one of the few who believe that, however I also assume you do not wish to engage on the issue but would rather start a new one.
President Trump: may he build a strong wall, we have nothing against that.
Frank says
As a Catholic my opinion is that he is out of order for that statement and out of touch with the reality that there are true enemies that need to be squashed like cockaroaches.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Frank, I have no problem if you disagree with pope Francis on something he actually said. However people on this thread have a problem with something Pope Francis never said or imagine.
Look I have no problem with people who are up front Catholic haters I do have a problem with those who deem themselves intellectuals about the Catholic Church and know nothing but spread disinformation. I enjoy having fun with them.
Try to explain to the left or the M S M that D Trump is not a racist, misogynist or homophobic.
Do you get the point?
harold says
I suffered reading through the who interview from t he source and I lament the horrible analysis of Pope Francis that Sweden is a model for immigration and that the problem is we need to work harder on integration without acknowledging that bringing in huge numbers who want to colonize will make integration practically impossible. The Pope’s comments were reckless and he should have rebuked the interviewer for loaded questions labeling Trump as a monster, but he didn’t directly compare Trump to Hitler.
We can at least use these words of Pope Francis in the same interview, “Every country has the right to control its borders, who comes and who goes, and those countries at risk —from terrorism or such things— have even more right to control them more.”
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Harold, you are quite right I do not particularly agree with every political statement the pope makes. Catholics disagree on most political issues, that is OK, we do not have to agree.The pope certainly would not force anyone to agree with him.
The duties of the state to its citizens and the duties of the citizen to the state is enshrined in our social teaching no personal opinion can change that.
The Swedes are suffering however I go back to a liberal view that for them and Europe is self destructing.
If you can trace this article it is worth reading:
Legutko: suggests the following formula for identifying a liberal:
A liberal is someone who takes a rather thin view of man, society, morality, religion, history, and philosophy, believing this to be the safest approach to organizing human cooperation.
He does not deny that thicker, non-procedural principles and norms are possible, but believes these to be particular preferences which possess validity only within particular groups and communities. For this reason he refuses to attribute to such principles and norms any universal value and he protests whenever someone attempts to impose his profound beliefs, however true they may seem to him, on the entire social body. Liberals might have divergent opinions on economic freedoms and the role of Legutko then goes government, but they are united in their conviction that thinness of anthropological, moral, and metaphysical assumptions is the prerequisite for freedom and peace.
Les says
Settle down people and quit being reckless
“Being afraid or rejoicing beforehand because of something that might happen is, in my view, quite reckless,” the pope said. “We will see. We will see what he does and then we will judge — always on the concrete. Christianity either is concrete or it is not Christianity.”
Pope Francis regarding Trump
Stephen says
!968? V2 was in ’65.
Champ says
Pope likens Trump to Hitler
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What rubbish—the pope is a LIAR!
Bill says
Listen to this Pope lie and dissemble. While he claims in one sentence that he cannot prejudge PRESIDENT Trump, he spends multiple sentences comparing him to Hitler. This is not the first time he has done this. The Pope has absolutely judged President Trump. He spoke during the election in a manner intended to see him defeated. This Pope is not fooling anyone. Should he be criticized for his outrageous comparison, he will point to the one sentence and say “I would not prejudge Trump, see it’s right there”.
He does this all the time on any subject he speaks to. Personally, I think he hates Jews and wants to aid and abet Islam in the next attempt to see them exterminated. He will say that he never advocated that, but he will take positions and encourage others in ways that are intended to cause such a result.
He is an evil and dangerous man, the type that, if followed, with result in the death of millions of Christians and Jews. With his support for Islam, he already has that body count rising.
He is a master of doublespeak and propaganda. Listen to his words, watch where he places emphasis and then observe his actions. He is following the inspiration of the leaders he respects most: Lenin, Stalin, Mao and Castro.
Champ says
Exactly, Bill–great comment.
ManuelduePaleologus says
I chosen to pray for this Pope and hope for another one like Pope Emeritus Benedict XIV.
He should never ‘retired’.He was a great Pope like St. John Paul II.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Hi ManuelduePaleologus
Good on you, as you can see from the response of the secular, there will be great difficulties in having a common cause,
They are just as rabid and prone to lie, no better than Islam. They share the same Spirit.
Carolyne says
Are you saying that those who do not follow this idiotic Pope and his pronouncements are no better than Islam? If so, I take that as a great insult and want you to know that IMO this man Francis is just a man and not a very good man at that., He promotes Islam and is therefore no better than Islam. He is stupid and naïve about the world. He might know about the streets of Argentina, but not the real world. He lives all cosseted in cotton wool and knows nothing. Period.
If he were truly a good man, a man of the Christian God, he would sell the treasures of the Vatican and use the money to support his beloved barbarian refugees.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Carolyne
By your own judgement, then it stands to reason to make you a good women you need to sell your treasures and give to the poor.
I take it that you have done this, and tell us how has this made you into a good women and are the poor rich now.
What the Vatican has is of zero monetary value, they are paintings on walls and ceilings. They of historical and spiritual value to us, for you and the secular world they have monetary value.
Our Churches and property are for the use of all people, the Churches are the places where we assemble to worship our Lord as one people, all other buildings are for the community and the help of others.
Cretius says
Surely you jest.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Substantiate your question if you dare.
gravenimage says
Malcolm (SouthAfria) wrote:
They are just as rabid and prone to lie, no better than Islam. They share the same Spirit.
…………………………,
So secular Anti-Jihadists are no better than Muslims raping our children? How does that work?
John C. Barile says
Like I said, GI, you suffer foolishness patiently. That’s why we like you so much.
Achmed says
The pope is the head of the Roman Catholic Church. Therefore, I am not surprised, not in the least, by his comments. He’s just a Roman Catholic bein’ a Roman Catholic.
Wellington says
An egregious generalization by you, Achmed. This pope is indeed a fool (or eve worse) but there have been many outstanding popes who have not had a broken moral compass, who were wise and good, and who did great things. Moreover, your comment is not just a slur on the papacy but on ALL Roman Catholics and thus you should be ashamed of yourself since, among religions, Roman Catholicism has one of the greatest intellectual, artistic and ethical heritages of any religion. And, btw, Robert Spencer is a Roman Catholic.
Reconsider. That is if you are able and I suspect you are not able.
Pong says
I am afraid that “outstanding popes” is the past and not the future of catholic church. Don’t the ordinary catholics support the pope by staying catholics the same way as moslems support islam by staying moslems?
Wellington says
Your moral equivalency thinking is showing most glaringly, Pong. More to the point, staying Catholic doesn’t result in exculpating the result of dead bodies and maimed bodies aplenty showing up and perpetrated by Catholics acting the name of their faith. Nor does staying Catholic, even with a fool as Pope, result in FGM, killing a Catholic for converting to another faith, etc. Staying Muslim does.
Really, you are a fool, Pong, whether “just” a naïve fool or actually a complicit fool. In short, you make me sick. You should everyone of sense, you effing idiot.
Phil Copson says
Hello Pong – you’re exactly right; most Catholics will continue to stay Catholic, most Muslims will continue to stay Muslim, most Democrats continue to vote Democrat, and few people change banks.
People may have doubts, but unless they act on them straightway, they forget them and carry on as before – it’s just human nature.
Ignore “Wellington Boot’s ” abuse. Anyone who doesn’t agree with him is routinely abused and yelled at as being a “fool”, a “moron” etc.
Given his instant hatred of anyone who disagrees with him, I suspect that he’s either drunk or a Muslim.
Either way, he has no business posting on a site for rational people concerned about the spread of Islam.
Luciano says
We remain Catholic because we follow our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ as He is the head of the church. His vicars are flawed human beings and we don’t worship them we listen to them when they speak gospel truths and we ignore when they speak nonsense, but they will have a lot to answer for. I myself have stopped listening to this Pope for a long time now as I don’t understand what he says most of the time and his almost daily attacks on faithful Catholics I can no longer take. I pray for his conversion.
Carolyne says
Goof point, Pong.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Luciano
You are my brother Catholic,
Pray go to Mass and God Bless you
gravenimage says
The idea that Wellington–as very measured voice here–is abusive is just ridiculous.
Pong says
Phil Copson,
It isn’t the first time I was called names instead of addressing the issues of the posts. Often it has been done by using a “strawman argument”.
In this particular case to see a moral equivalent between catholics and moslem is a bit stretching the argument. Using abusive language is the sign of a bad upbringing and as much as some posts are against what I think is correct, using such language puts down one who uses it.
Being called stupid or moron doesn’t effect me at all. I am one of the leading specialists in my profession and that is the only thing important to me, and I am not in some “studies”, but in the serious science, where very few reach the top level. I understand that being not at the level of Robert in this particular field, I can make a mistake and it happened on this blog and I corrected myself, admitted a mistake and thanked one, who pointed mistake to me. I doubt Wellington is capable of doing such thing. I cannot see any mistake in my post and Wellington is wrong to understand it the way he did and the way he expressed himself.
John C. Barile says
I also agree with you, Luciano. I feel exactly as you do. These are times that try men’s souls, in the words of Thomas Paine.
gravenimage says
Is Robert Spencer just “bein’ a Roman Catholic” by opposing Jihad? Unlikely to be an answer from Achmed…
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
@ gravenimage
Just to mention that the majority of Catholics supported and voted For D Trump and there will many attempts by the M S M to drive a wedge in that relationship.
Catholics are happy around the world of President Donald Trump reinstated the “Mexico City policy” on Monday, issuing an executive order barring foreign aid or federal funding for international nongovernmental organizations that promote or provide abortions.
“The United States will end the use of taxpayer dollars to fund abortion overseas, along with coercive abortions and sterilization practices,” White House press secretary Sean Spicer said in the White House press briefing Monday, explaining the move.
There are fake Catholic N G O,s that are speaking against that. They do not represent us and are a creation of the left that John Podesta is well aware of.
gravenimage says
Yes, I know many Catholics voted for Trump.
common sense says
So what Obama did to open our borders to criminal scum, let powerful actors sell out our country and keep/ take control of the US media was not Marxist or fascist at all? Feckin BS.
They hate us for the fact that they can’t take away our rights to speak out and bear arms.
john spielman says
Dope Francis suffers from Trump- derangement syndrome- sadly a progressive destruction of the higher cortical functions of the brain and is cause by socialist “chrislam” ( the syncretistic twisted vile theology that Christianity and islam share a common theology) thinking . Unless such Trump- derangement syndrome is treated early and quickly and often with reality orientation and a generous dose of JIHAD WATCH readings, will render the sufferer a blithering slobbering IDIOT – just like Dope Francis!
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Dear john spielman
Possibly you are to ignorant to see that the M S M are playing Trump supporters against Catholics, the majority of Catholics supported Trump, wake up.
This is what pope Francis said, read it and tell us where you disagree. Just consider that the American public voted for Obama.
Pope Francis has warned against growing populism in Europe, saying such movements could result in the election leaders of like Germany’s Adolf Hitler.
“In times of crisis, we lack judgment, and that is a constant reference for me,” the pontiff said in an in-depth interview with Spanish newspaper El Pais. “The most obvious example of European populism is Germany in 1933. After the crisis of 1930, Germany is broken, it needs to get up, to find its identity, a leader, someone capable of restoring its character, and there is a young man named Adolf Hitler.”
Pope Francis blesses the faithful during traditional Sunday prayer in the Vatican City on Sunday. GIORGIO ONORATI / EPA
“Hitler didn’t steal the power, his people voted for him, and then he destroyed his people,” the pope added.
Pope Francis’ warnings come as a wave of populism washes over Europe, and as voters angry with traditional political elites throw their weight behind nationalist, anti-immigrant leaders.
FYI says
Mr Bergolio,the heretical false pontiff in Rome should go to Washington,get off his Marxist-Jesuit high horse,get on his knees ……and wash Mr Trump’s feet.
Mr Bergolio is the same hypocrite who famously said “who am I to judge?” and yet he never seems to stop judging others,especially Mr Trump.
Me Bergolio is a proven liar who said that ” authenic islam and the proper reading of the koran are opposed to every form of violence”,a statement he would know to be false if he had actually properly read the koran.
Mr Bergolio’s heretical views have been condemned by.. Catholics
His claim that the Islamic allah (who rejects Christ) is the same as the Christian God is ..
the GREATEST HERESY a pontiff can claim.He has also promoted his own friends to senior positions(Nepotism).
Open your eyes.You need ears to hear and eyes to see.
For there are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
Follow the false prophet if you wish but you should know that Catholic prophecy(which you clearly know nothing about) confirms the truth about the man in Rome.
He is a betrayer of Catholics and Christianity.
So,I guess you never heard of the warnings of Fatima 1917 then.
Carolyne says
There is so much I disagree with about your statement, FYI, that I can’t begin to list it all. Suffice it to say that I don’t believe in young girls who see visions (Except concern for their mental health) usually in some grotto with running water, and I certainly do not consider their adolescent ravings to be prophecy of things to come. That’s really just total nonsense. I will admit, however, that there is no business like show business.
FYI says
@carolyne..I was referring to the official teachings of the RCC of Malcolm(south Africa)
His church,not mine.I don’t subscribe.
As for Mr Bergoglio being a heretical liar,a false prophet and a promoter of islam(which you cannot deny)
:that still stands.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Dare I say pope Francis would wash President Trump feet, your suggestion, make the arrangement or are you talk talk and no action ?
john spielman says
Francis is to me “neither Pope nor catholic”to quote Martin Luther, the protestant reformer because the pope at that time, was perverting the Gospel message of salvation; which is ONLY by GRACE of God (through the death of Christ- the only Son pf God,) NOT OF WORKS – as St Paul said, and certainly NOT IN MONEY PAYED TO THE CHURCH( INDULGENCES) !
Like wise Francis has perverted the Gospel message when he tries to tell us that Christians worship the same GOD as muslims! St Paul warned about listening to anyone who brings a different gospel message than the one Jesus and His disciples gave us because Satan masquerades as an angel of light- just like what happened to muhammed who fell for this trap. islam is a false doctrine, a doctrine of Satan and allah of islam IS Satan of the Bible Francis also stated that muslims are our” brothers” when Jesus said that only those who obey the Father- who loves the Son ” is His brother”. St Paul said that when the Holy Spirit of Christ Jesus is IN us, then we are adopted into the family of God. Further according St John, islam is an Antichrist doctrine because it denies the Father and the Son!
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Just to inform you that Martin Luther was Catholic. He couldn’t say his daily office, he was a crude foul mouth moron,never mind the untruths, or being a political animal.
Although there are attempts to recreate him in a white washed form, there never be respect for him, his past will always come to the fore.
Germans has always been a great people but look what has come out of it: Martin Luther, Hitler, Merkle. Look what damage they have caused, I could throwin a few cardinals, hmm better not.
john spielman says
Dear Malcolm; Martin Luther was kicked out of the Catholic Church for speaking the truth about papal indulgences and other unChristian doctrines that had crept into the church ( like Papal infallibility)
only recently did the RC church agree that Luther was correct about salvation by Grace alone -through faith in Jesus’ sin atoning death and resurrection, not by any works of ours!
You are correct, Martin Luther just like the pope was a sinner and did things that were wrong- esp the tracts he wrote latter in his life that were viciously ant Semitic and used by the Hitlerites to persecute and murder millions of Jews.
But you must realize that Francis is wrong and speaks many untruths about islam and Christ
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Dear john spielman
Not going to to argue the point about Martin Luther, other to say that he would be horrified with Protestant beliefs to day, they are not recognizable to his original points and I stand by what I say of him, may he rest in peace.
None of us are perfect we are all in need of redemption and renewal. The Catholic Church with her sacraments are the perfect tools (if i may use this crude expression to describe the sacraments) in doing this.
Now you may not or may understand this. The Catholic who does this cannot ever leave the Church, we are secular, we experience the world, we move to Christian, we practice our belief no matter how poorly, we partake in the sacraments, this is where our strength. We are united, with Christ in his suffering, with our brothers and sisters, we are not afraid of any evil.
john spielman says
dear Malcolm; there are some lutheran denominations who have left the faith (ELCA in the USA and ELCIC in Canada) but the Lutheran church Missouri synod and many others are faithful to the Bible and to Christ Jesus. I can only hope most Catholics are as well, I am not hopeful of this pontiff at all because of his syncretism between islam and christianity. There is NOTHING in common between islam and Christianity as there is nothing in common between darkness and light or Satan and Christ, except that the light of Christ HAS AND WILL OVERCOME Satan and islam!
ps Lutherans do not believe in transubstantiation, but believe that Christ is IN the Bread and Wine; and Baptism puts us into Christ and Holy Communion keeps us there!
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Good on you Mr john spielman.
May God bless you,
To me the Eucharist is the most important aspect of Christianity, we agree on somethings.
gravenimage says
Malcolm, I *do not* agree with Pope Francis that politicians in Europe are “like Hitler” if they oppose untrammeled Muslim immigration, which is the implication here.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Actually he wasn’t comparing politicians, more the mood of the populace. What he was saying is that people are so fed up with what they have at the moment in Europe, that they may be irrational in choosing leaders that will create mayhem. There needs to be rational choices.
Sending illegal immigrants back to their homeland is standard practice with all governments. There is nothing wrong with that.
There is a difference to those who are accepted legally and those who are illegal.
It has been leftest Western Governments that has created this irrational situation
We are heading in a direction now, that will be of massive change in the next few years and there is no need to create a full blown world war.
gravenimage says
Malcolm–with all respect–I don’t believe that the Infidel populace of Europe is about to elect a Hitler, either. Europeans may be fed up, but they are civilized people–the idea that they are going to start a Holocaust against Muslims is just calumny.
Wanting protection against being raped and murdered is *not* Fascism.
And the problem is that a lot of those legal immigrants are also violent Muslim thugs.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
@gravenimage
Really your read things that have never been said, do not behave in a retarded manner?
Mark Swan says
Malcolm (SouthAfria) You talk a pretty tale, until the real you pops out—as far as
gravenimage is concerned—you are addressing a respected vital contributer and
friend to all on this site—
gravenimage says
Malcolm (SouthAfria) wrote:
@gravenimage
Really your read things that have never been said, do not behave in a retarded manner?
…………………………….,,
Malcolm, what did I say that was “retarded”? You very much implied that Europeans are poised to vote in a Hitler and the implication of that is that there will be a Holocaust against Muslims.
Then there is your assertion that doing anything to defend against Muslim violence will needlessly “create a full blown world war”.
If you actually meant something else–though it is difficult to see how that might be–then be clear, rather than accusing me of being “retarded”.
gravenimage says
Thank you so much, Mark.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
@ Mark Swan
Have no time for deformed talk, blatant misinformation, or framing my words to fit one,s conclusions.
Guess what, that is just me telling the truth as I know it, show me where the Idea was planted, when I just demonstrated the popes caution.
“I don’t believe that the Infidel populace of Europe is about to elect a Hitler,”
Did I say infidel, did I say they were about to elect a Hitler?
“the idea that they are going to start a Holocaust against Muslims is just calumny.”
“Did I say they were about to start a holocaust against Muslims”
As a leader Pope Francis is right in his perceptions, in an interview he is free to say what he wants or is this only applicable to you lot.
Do yourself a favor read the interview, one can disagree, have no problem with that, you can insult my Pope, hmm might have a problem with that, it depends if its true or not, so do not whine when a Catholic dishes it out.
Believe me there are many Catholics that are shocked as well so you are in good company.
This is the real me Mark
gravenimage says
Malcolm (SouthAfria) wrote:
“I don’t believe that the Infidel populace of Europe is about to elect a Hitler,”
Did I say infidel, did I say they were about to elect a Hitler?
………….,…,……………..
Malcolm, you referred above to the European populace–I believe that implies Infidels, rather than Muslims.
And you spoke approvingly of the Pope saying that their actions were apt to “result in the election leaders of like Germany’s Adolf Hitler”.
More:
“the idea that they are going to start a Holocaust against Muslims is just calumny.”
“Did I say they were about to start a holocaust against Muslims”
………….,…,……………..
If that was not you implication re Muslims and this new ‘Hitler’, then what was it? That they would have a leader with a funny mustache?
More:
As a leader Pope Francis is right in his perceptions, in an interview he is free to say what he wants or is this only applicable to you lot.
………….,…,……………..
You still don’t say what his perceptions are, if you are denying that he was talking about Europeans electing Fascists and turning on the poor innocent Muslims.
And *of course* the Pope is free to say what he wants–no one here has suggested otherwise.
But his is *not* free to say such things about civilized Infidels and expect that no one will rebut his baseless insults against good people.
Why is it that so few seem to grasp that free speech often involves *responding* to the speech of others? That is, in fact, just what you are doing here–not terribly cogently, of course, but that is a separate issue.
More:
Do yourself a favor read the interview, one can disagree, have no problem with that, you can insult my Pope, hmm might have a problem with that, it depends if its true or not, so do not whine when a Catholic dishes it out.
………….,…,……………..
I have read the interview–the clear implication was that “Islamophobic” Infidels were poised to elect a Fascist, who would brutalize poor Muslims–when the *actual* situation is Muslims raping and murdering the native European population.
And no–I am not insulting the Pope–I am taking issue with him insulting the good people of Europe–including many good Catholics.
And this is not a matter of whining when a Catholic “dishes it out”–I and anyone else here has every right to disagree with your apologia for this calumny–it is not because either you or the Pope are Catholic.
Robert Spencer is Catholic, and he doesn’t agree with this calumny, either.
More:
This is the real me Mark
………….,…,……………..
I’m sure this is true…
Mark Swan says
The real me accepts and respects the real you—I try always to keep the things of God in my thoughts.
Condemning this Pope for being anything other than Human is senseless—-and is for God to judge.
My thoughts go to this present age (generation) which is facing choices we are ill equipped to make.
Here are some I have on the condition of my country which I love very much—let me have your take on this if you would be so kind.
The United States of America seems to be coming apart. Even if you live in Britain, Canada, Australia or elsewhere, this fact is becoming increasingly evident around the world. Various international newspapers and magazines report on it. People are sincerely puzzled as to how and why this is happening.
If you were the “prince of the power of the air,” how would you destroy nations that had once professed allegiance to God? Would your plan look like what is happening in the United States and European nations today? “What Would the Devil Do?” How would he bring about the decline and fall of nations that had once been greatly blessed by God?
The inspired word of God makes it very clear that Satan the Devil is the actual “god” of this age—of this present human society. If you really believe the Bible and study it diligently, you surely understand this.
The Apostle Paul described typical, carnal people, “whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them” (2 Corinthians 4:4). Later, the Apostle Paul described how such people walk “according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience” (Ephesians 2:2).
So, Satan is the one who actually controls many of the thoughts and impulses that beset human beings. Indirectly, Satan controls the media in most situations. For he is the invisible “prince of the power of the air.” In the book of Revelation, the Apostle John was inspired to describe Satan as “that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world” (Revelation 12:9).
Many writers and authorities have described the United States as the “last great bastion” of freedom and Christianity.
Would Satan set out to destroy the nation that has—in the past—based many of its laws and customs upon the Bible, has promoted nominal Christianity all over the world, and put on its currency, “In God We Trust”?
Hundreds of articles and even entire books could be cited to show how so much of the modern media has been and is being used to undermine the concepts of patriotism, true religion, the family—and almost every aspect of a decent life! Remember, God’s word calls Satan “the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience” (Ephesians 2:2).
For Satan is, indeed, in control of this earth’s atmosphere, and he certainly uses the “airwaves” (as we used to call radio broadcasting, television and internet) to infiltrate people’s minds continually with anti-God, anti-Christ, anti-Bible concepts. Most of us have not realized how cleverly this is being done, for it has been a gradual process, over years, creeping up on us.
It is like the example of the frog in the pot, which is heated up so slowly that it does not jump out in time! My friends, we are that frog! We are letting our minds be” programmed” by the modern world to slowly yet surely turn against the God of the Bible, against His laws and way of life, against the true understanding of the family itself, against genuine patriotism—indeed, against everything that made our nations great in the first place!
Is this just alarmist talk on my part? No! Consider the example of National Public Radio. As most of us know, NPR has received partial government sponsorship, and is supposed to be a “mainstream” vehicle to disseminate news and information to the American people. Yet, in May 2009, the NPR Board changed the wording of its media policy to state: “NPR Member Stations shall provide only [emphasis added] nonsectarian, non-political, noncommercial educational content on all broadcast channel(s) and related media distribution platforms such as member partners that use the NPR member brands.”
That means NPR stations carrying religious programming were to stop such programming as of May 1.
What about other public outlets? The Station Services Committee of the Public Broadcasting Service (PBS)—another federally funded media outlet—wrote that it “places a high value on presenting diverse perspectives, as opposed to rigidly adhering to any single political or religious point of view” and that even allowing a few different religious views to be aired would privilege some over others and “would cause the public’s trust in PBS to erode, along with the value of the brand.” Since this change was instituted, many religious programs featured on member stations have been “axed”! Slowly but surely, Satan is removing all reference to the God of the Bible, unless God is portrayed in a worldly and usually an outright negative manner. The great nation of America—which formerly called itself a “Christian” nation—has turned its back on its
God in stubborn, willful disobedience. Meanwhile, Americans are letting the “heathen” flourish in their various expressions of religion and philosophy, even while they often persecute any genuine Christians.
The U.S. was a blessed nation. Americans held their heads high. People were eager to back their leaders, to keep the nation strong and unified. During World War II, and for years afterward, news broadcasters on national radio and later television nearly always sounded a loyal theme. They did not always agree with everything that was done, but you could sense that they were all for America.
Americans have been able to sing about the “land of the free and home of the brave.” It should help us to profoundly understand why the song “God Bless America” talks about the nation extending “from sea to shining sea.” Truly, the Americans and all the British-descended peoples should be very thankful to the great God who gave all these blessings—and the peoples of these once-great nations should humbly repent of all selfishness and rebellion and turn back to the true God with all of their hearts!
Satan is doing a masterful job of confusing the ministers, intellectual leaders and educators of our nation about true religion. He can very cleverly make morality seem passé. He can make the clear distinction between right and wrong seem very “fuzzy” so that morality and deep respect for law and authority are slowly obliterated. Satan is making true religion seem “out of date” and even obsolete to our peoples!
Hundreds of articles and books have come out in the last few years attacking God and the Bible! More and more, our political and even religious leaders are edging away from a clear description of faith in a personal God—especially a God who sets forth laws and a way of life. If there is any mention of “God” at all, it is of a vague concept, far from the true God of the Bible.
We can see this very clearly. Remember how, when America was attacked at Pearl Harbor back in 1941, President Franklin Roosevelt concluded his impassioned speech to the Congress of the United States by stating, “We shall gain the inevitable triumph, so help us God!” The idea of a real God was much more prevalent at that time, and was instilled in the moral fabric of the entire nation—through schools, families and other community institutions. All of that is quickly disappearing.
When World War II began, even those who disliked President Franklin Delano Roosevelt came together in a powerful sense of unity. For he was our President and we knew we had to hang together, love our nation and pray to God that He would deliver us from this terrible threat posed by the Axis powers.
Today, America’s political leaders—and many leading educators and figures in the media—tend to “waffle” here and there about anything patriotic. President Barack Obama has even been apologizing—over and over—for what America has done in the past! America’s leaders appear to be ashamed of the great blessings that God has given their nation, and of the victories that He gave in World War I, World War II and through many other terrible trials. Many Americans have lost their national sense of purpose, their deep patriotism—and their deep respect for the God who made all of this possible.
Mark Swan says
gravenimage that was an excellent reply to Malcolm (SouthAfria)—
Malcolm (SouthAfria)—you have my reply to you, here above.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
And here is my reply
Moron one and moron two
pick the order
gravenimage says
Malcolm (SouthAfria) wrote:
And here is my reply
Moron one and moron two
pick the order
………………………………
And earlier, you said that I was “retarded”. You do realize, don’t you, that name calling is not an actual argument that supports your position?
gravenimage says
Mark, thanks for your reply. I’m not sure I would be so quick to write off America–time will tell. I am at least guarded hopeful right now.
And apologies for the large numbers of typos in my post before last. I need to proofread before posting.
Mark Swan says
gravenimage, just keep on being you—you can not go far wrong with that.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
@ Mark Swan
When it comes to you I am a bit hasty, have apologized to you before, however none this time.
I do recognize your sincerity as a Christian, so I will attempt to answer your question in good faith without research.
From Jewish Tradition to Christianity we will note that when God chooses to communicate His Word, it is always one person. From Abraham to Jesus.
Being Catholic that method is from Jesus to Peter and from Peter to our present pope.
Now we know through that tradition and scripture, that when God says a thing He wants you to believe it. If that was not so, then why would he communicate with us and why would the incarnation be.
What is the first commandment: to love the Lord our God with all our heart and soul, there is no other God before me.
We have seen through History particularly with Moses how people are quick to abandon God in favor of pleasure or lets say mammon.
When this happened those communities suffered some destroyed, some taken over by enemies. Some by internal strife and some saved through repentance.
Lets move on to Evil, from early Jewish literature we learn the evil takes place when we turn from the will of God communicated to mankind, lets say the commandments.
What is this evil again we read from Jewish sources the O/T and you know what that is, and about the temptation of Jesus.
Well evil is thus, it cannot posses us, unless we will it. That is the freedom that we have of Gods creation. It can oppress us.
The first principle is clear the second is what we call spiritual warfare, You might have read the phrase that I use, “Catholics are borne for combat” This phrase was used by one of our popes in an encyclical.
What is that evil, it abounds when ignore this:, when God says do not kill, He means it. When he says to not bare false witness, He means it, when he says do not commit adultery, He means it. you get the point. That same authority is on Jesus, we hear God at Johns baptism of Jesus, at the Transfiguration and from Mary at the wedding feast with the first miracle of Jesus, “do as He says”.
From a Christian point of view, our societies are abandoning Gods commandments, in favor of Cesar and mammon. Well through this choice there is a price to pay and our societies are in self destruct mode, this has been going on for at least 400 years.
Let me put it this way the majority of wars in this period have been in the West among ourselves with threats coming from the East since 900 ad.
Catholics have learnt through the sacraments, repentance, obedience to His will, honoring the Lord our God, prayer, sacrifice, and intercession of saints, the rosary, the commitment to change, we have defeated those who wish to harm us. Deus Vult. The amour of God.
Here in resides the brief fundamentals why evil exist and how to overcome it.
I am not willing to discuss this further. Other to say I have seen broken homes, broken people, being involved in battle and survived, been able to see the Truth, have one visible leader one Church and one invisible who is our ultimate leader who I worship and is central in my home.
Do not engage me on this matter or twist my words to your imagination, I will not respond.
Mark Swan says
Thank You Malcolm (SouthAfria)
Kay says
@ Malcolm (South Africa), gravenimage, and Mark Swan–
Malcolm, you love the Pope. This is fine. You are fed by the Sacraments. This is wonderful. You are striving to be true to God, to His calling on your life and in your daily actions. Sometimes–probably always– all that goes on in the world and through history is too hard for humans to understand. We are not meant to understand all evil, but to continue being light. Let Christ’s yoke uphold you.
The only thing I would ask is that you might understand that we do not hear or see all the works or blessings of the Pope. Here in the West–whether by his intent or by twisting of the Media– the Pope has frequently been speaking as a political force for the Leftists that we see tearing apart our democracies, our churches, our families, and sometimes our very lives. That hurts.
gravenimage–
As always, your patience, even-handedness, clarity, and vast store of knowledge is much appreciated. You continue to earn the respect you receive.
In your posts above, the point you made about “selective morality” is especially salient. It is barely a year past the massacre in Paris, we have not nearly finished grieving, the assaults have continued to pile up . . . and yet from our Pope, I have not heard direction for either the spiritual or the practical realm to face these evils; indeed it appears that he is ignoring the assaults on the West and the individual lives therein. (If a reader knows otherwise, I would be happy to be corrected.)
Mark Swan,
They have left a knife edge to stand on, how to stand in the love of God and yet decry the evil surrounding us. Yet you stand and write beautifully. I hope you get a chance to do so to a wider audience than you receive here.
Your question about how satan might try to undo our blessed country is thought provoking. Also, your point about how we have been “cooking slowly” is important. Just think of the horrors that we now must name and face and are able to do it without retching or falling apart.
And while the assaults on our blessings come from many worldly quarters (perhaps that is how all the bolts got loosened so as to make us easy prey), in Mohammedism, these assaults have a concentration and strength that we have not experienced before. And now our defenses are weakened. Many of us cannot even discuss these issues in our churches or our families.
Thank you all for the thought provoking conversation.
Mark Swan says
Thank you Kay— You are very kind to write what you have here.
gravenimage says
Thanks so much for your considered reply, Kay. Be well.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
@ Kay
There is a peace about you Kay, and the willingness to seek truth, from a Catholic point of view we do not seek confrontation with any person or community.
When Jesus choose His apostles the majority were fisherman, they were tough, straight to the point, compassionate, and would be ready to forgive to accomplish their mission in peaceful co-existence, however their is a duty in love for our brother to come to their aid.
Jesus makes it clear who our brothers and sisters are in Matthew 12: 47-50. The last part is “those who do His Fathers will.”
So may the peace of Jesus Christ be with you always Kay.
EmHotep says
Is your pepe foot fetish or what? fuck all religions …
gravenimage says
EmHotep–with all respect–other religions are not threatening you as Islam is–living in Turkey, you should know this.
And many non-Muslim people of faith stand with you against Islam–including Robert Spencer.
EmHotep says
I apologize I was very nervous here and lost the plot. This place is like my second home and Robert is very important for me along with other friends here.
gravenimage says
No problem, EmHotep–I cannot imagine the stress you are under, living in fast Islamizing Turkey. Chin up.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
A very bad act, some fell for it not all.
EmHotep says
I think he is a pervert , it’s like our mollas, hodja and all other motherfuckers… BAN RELIGION…
This picture makes me throw up !!!
unoriginal username says
I was just about to say the same thing, about the picture. I thought about asking the admins not to put it up anymore, but on further thought I think that would be a mistake. Best for the truth about Pope Francis to be exposed in the light of day.
Wellington says
Ban religion? Fuck all religions?
To say the least, EmHotep, not wise. To say the most, as guilty as Islam in killing freedom. Think it over.
EmHotep says
I know sometimes I feel desperate, being in a muslim country and seeing the support for islam makes me go crazy. For the last 15 years we are leaving in a virtual hell.. There is still time for you but no time left for us. Of course I know nothing is like islam, and believe me I know very well. I have nothing against other religions just don’t know what to do anymore..
Wellington says
If you have nothing against other religions, then why did you write, in your 4:52 P.M. post above, “…..fuck all religions….?”
gravenimage says
Don’t despair, EmHotep–and think all religions threaten you.
Aavspatti says
I believe he said that out of frustration.
Mark Swan says
EmHotep—please consider that we see Islam trying to take over, but you are in the midst of it in full control—You ache to reject it, but are in the middle of it there—whatever your situation—you need to leave there, get somewhere you can be free to believe
what ever you want. If anyone needs to gain their well being it is you.
I wish you every help that is needed to do so.
EmHotep says
I apologize I was very nervous here and lost the plot. This place is like my second home and Robert is very important for me along with other friends here..
EmHotep says
Dear Wellington, what I am trying to say is, if by any chance muslims have enough power, they will not hesitate to slaughter all of the Christians, jews, non- believers and all other people. Muslims are like that because of quranic doctrine. We were very soft against erdogan and made a big mistake, I am just trying to say we need to unite against islam. Again I am sorry for using bad words ..
Champ says
“BAN RELIGION…”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nah.
Not *all* religions are evil to the core–only ONE comes to mind: islam!
EmHotep says
Yea I know, I have tried to explain, why am I angry so much, on the above comment. There is no delete button here otherwise I would delete it..
Champ says
Thank you for clarifying, EmHotep. Take care.
gravenimage says
Good posts, Champ.
Champ says
🙂
EmHotep says
I apologize I was very nervous here and lost the plot. This place is like my second home and Robert is very important for me along with other friends here.
gravenimage says
It’s OK.
Mark Swan says
EmHotep—-you just be you—not one of us can imagine how bad
Turkey is with Islam saturating all that is human life.
You are not, nor will not be, the only one to throw a fit on this site.
Unless they practice it and refuse to relent—most here are magnanimous.
You are in a unique position to share real time experience.
Stay with us please, you are appreciated.
gravenimage says
I agree with Mark, EmHotep. Your dispatches from the ground in Dar-al-Islam are invaluable here. Thank you for all your contributions.
wayne says
Robert, I’m not sure what your religion is but as a Catholic I remember the infallibility of the Pope pertains to matters of the Church. When he strays outside of the teachings of that church he is a mere mortal subject to his emotions. I believe that we as humans have an ingrown sympathy for the needy among us. However, as a practical person, I see islam for the totalitarian ideology that betrays anything I consider to be religion. The idea that we can co-exist with these muslim savages is like saying we can have rattlesnakes as pets.
Wellington says
Robert Spencer is a Catholic (Eastern Rite) and I like your analogy of Mohammedans as rattlesnakes.
Something else. I feel badly for Catholics like yourself, wayne, because the present pope, in tremendous contrast to the previous pope, is a very limited and even stupid man.
Pong says
The previous pope didn’t understand the church agenda and had to go. Don’t expect the present one to go. He is right there where he belongs.
gravenimage says
The previous Pope was much more in line with where the Catholic Church has stood historically when it comes to Islam, Pong. It is only with recent “political correctness” that this is not so.
Pong says
gravenimage,
Pope Francis continues the policies of J-P II, who looked at islam as a legitimate and respectful religion. Benedict was an aberration of those policies and had to go because of that.
gravenimage says
That is true, Pong, but John Paul II didn’t go nearly as far as Francis has, and Islam was no where near the threat during his pontificate.
Peggy says
If the Pope had any sympathy for the needy then he would have sympathy for the persecuted Christians and other non Muslims too.
What is he doing to help them? Is he even talking about their persecution? Is he at least not trying to hide Muslim crimes?
it keeps getting worse, doesn’t it?
If he had any sympathy is not what I would say. If he relinquished satan and embraced Christ is what I would say.
I wonder how many Catholics are still seeing him as their shepherd. Hopefully none because he will lead them to Hell.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
He does Peggy and as I Catholic I support him.
What I, as a Catholic see as a danger, is that the modern Popes speak directly with the press. It is a move away from the technical language that the pope express his opinion on world affairs.
This issues are then framed in the context of what the M S M determines.
There is a movement world wide that is growing as a response to the blatant murderous activity of those claiming Islam.
If it gets out of hand through poor leadership or people acting on emotion without sound reason or ethics this could be devastating for millions of people.
Pope Francis is well aware of this.
gravenimage says
Malcolm (SouthAfria) wrote:
There is a movement world wide that is growing as a response to the blatant murderous activity of those claiming Islam.
If it gets out of hand through poor leadership or people acting on emotion without sound reason or ethics this could be devastating for millions of people.
………………………….
Muslims slaughtering thousands of people is not a problem, but the specter of Infidels “getting out of hand” has to be the focus–never mind that there has been no such “backlash”–but apologists keep pretending that it is Infidels who are “Hitlers” if they oppose being raped or murdered.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Of course it is a problem, dealing with that issue is of great importance, you are not suggesting that western people Kill innocent Muslims.
What really is so sick: that Rape, Murder, Child molestation, are horrific Crimes. Yet in communities of race the African is upset when A white commits these crimes, a white is upset when black commits these crime.
Surely you should be upset whenever they occur and no matter who the perpetrator is and surely the government agencies who are sworn to protect the citizen should do their duty and do just that. Catholics do not practice selective morality.
The issue is that when the citizen chooses the work of enforcer, the potential for anarchy exist and particularly at this time, we need to be aware. Many of us have experience of war, it is best to be avoided.
Pope Francis is not perfect but his judgement on this matter is spot on. you may disagree, however evil is the Catholics enemy, no matter where it comes from: the secular or Islam.
Mark Swan says
Not properly addressing the Islamic invasion is the very most dangerous approach.
gravenimage says
Malcolm (SouthAfria) wrote:
Of course it is a problem, dealing with that issue is of great importance, you are not suggesting that western people Kill innocent Muslims.
……………………………….
Of course I’m not suggesting this–and neither is anyone else–but the Pope is pretending that they are.
More:
What really is so sick: that Rape, Murder, Child molestation, are horrific Crimes. Yet in communities of race the African is upset when A white commits these crimes, a white is upset when black commits these crime.
Surely you should be upset whenever they occur and no matter who the perpetrator is and surely the government agencies who are sworn to protect the citizen should do their duty and do just that.
……………………………….
Of course I’m concerned over crime, no matter who commits it. But pretending that civilized Infidels and Muslims who follow a creed enjoining them to rape and murder unbelievers are equally apt to commit such crimes is absurd–and the skyrocketing rates of violence in Europe confirm this.
For instance, over a period of five years, *every single stranger rape* was committed by an immigrant from Muslim countries.
More:
Catholics do not practice selective morality.
……………………………….
That’s great. But here the Pope is castigating Europeans over supposedly being on the brink of electing a new Hitler–which has not happened, and of which there is no sign that it is likely to happen–while ignoring Muslim savagery–and that *is* selective morality.
In 1966 there was a terrible crime where Richard Speck–who already had a long rap sheet and had previous raped and murdered, although he had not been caught yet–raped and murdered eight student nurses.
What if in the wake of this horrible crime the Pope or some other prominent figure had decided to castigate student nurses instead of violent felons? That is very much the sort of thing that is going on here.
If you are castigating the non-violent victims for some imaginary crime you believe they *might* commit, then this *is* selective morality.
More:
The issue is that when the citizen chooses the work of enforcer, the potential for anarchy exist and particularly at this time, we need to be aware. Many of us have experience of war, it is best to be avoided.
……………………………….
But there are no enforcers targeting innocent Muslims–this is just false. Most “hate crimes” against Muslims have proven to be false, minor matters such as draping bacon over a Mosque doorknob, or *both*.
The idea that there is an immanent Holocaust against Muslims is made up–there is no such thing going on. Politicians like Trump and Wilders have talked about stopping unvetted immigration of Jihadists into the West–that’s all.
More:
Pope Francis is not perfect but his judgement on this matter is spot on. you may disagree, however evil is the Catholics enemy, no matter where it comes from: the secular or Islam.
……………………………….
Saying that allowing millions of violent Muslims to flood into the West does *not* make one the enemy of Catholics–far from it. Many Catholics, in fact, have been victimized by ravening Mohammedans.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Retards
gravenimage says
Malcolm, you *do* realize that name calling is not a reasoned argument, don’t you?
gravenimage says
I wrote, above:
“For instance, over a period of five years, *every single stranger rape* was committed by an immigrant from Muslim countries.”
I had intended to specify that this happened in Oslo.
PRCS says
You could have a rattlesnake as a pet, provided you remove it’s fangs and venom producing organs.
Biologically, it would still be a rattlesnake.
And it would instinctively still try to bite you.
Kind of like a “moderate” Muslim.
Voytek Gagalka says
He should better take care of his own wall. The wall around most of Vatican City is extremely impressive as it is old: it helped to save Rome during the first invasion of Arabs in middle of 9th century. Was it built by some “Hitler” of the 9th century?
gravenimage says
*Very* true.
billybob says
Go figure – the Pope defends an evil man like Muhammad but denounces Trump for defending himself from illegal immigrants and the offspring of Muhammad. I do believe the Pope will get a chance to meet Muhammad one day when he dies, down in the 8th circle of Hell along with Muhammad’s son-in-law Ali, Pope Nicholas III, Pope Boniface VIII, and Pope Clement V – as related in Dante’s Inferno.
Janey Carter says
As a Catholic the Pope’s comments offend me. I do not and cannot believe that he represents the Catholic Church.
Peggy says
I’m sure he doesn’t. He only holds that position of Pope for now.
There is a deceiver sitting in the Vatican not the rightful representative of Catholics who love Christ.
Pong says
And who does, if not him?
Peggy says
Millions of Catholics who are doing the right thing.
If what the Pope is doing is representative of the Catholic church then it’s a church not worthy of respect but that’s not the case so he is NOT representing the church. He is representing something entirely opposite.
gravenimage says
+1, Peggy.
IQ al Rassooli says
Pope Francis: “Authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence”
Pope Francis’s statement above is not only outrageous but beneath contempt since the most PERSECUTED people on Earth in the 21st century are Christians by Muslims.
It has been under Francis’ watch that the evidence to the contrary is abundant: the daily record of jihad violence carried out by Muslims who point to Islam and Muhammad’s Quran and Sharia to justify their actions, including many who are burning churches and terrorizing Christians in Iraq, Syria, Gaza, Nigeria, Egypt, Sudan, Pakistan and elsewhere. His silence and that of the Catholic clergy as well as those of the Anglicans, Protestants and Presbyterians etc has been DEAFENING!
It is because of Muslims that Pope Francis and other criminally negligent elites in Europe feel compelled to insist that – contrary to what we see happening every day- Islam is actually peaceful. Francis and the elites are colluding with Muslim Jihadis to ERADICATE Christianity from the Middle East and Muslim countries.
“Apostolic Exhortation Evangelii Gaudium of the Holy Father Francis to the Bishops, Clergy, Consecrated Persons and the Lay Faithful On the Proclamation of the Gospel In Today’s World,” from Vatican.va, November 24:
253. In order to sustain dialogue with Islam, suitable training is essential for all involved, not only so that they can be solidly and joyfully grounded in their own identity, but so that they can also acknowledge the values of others, appreciate the concerns underlying their demands and shed light on shared beliefs. We Christians should embrace with affection and respect Muslim immigrants to our countries in the same way that we hope and ask to be received and respected in countries of Islamic tradition. I ask and I humbly entreat those countries to grant Christians freedom to worship and to practice their faith, in light of the freedom which followers of Islam enjoy in Western countries! Faced with disconcerting episodes of violent fundamentalism, our respect for true followers of Islam should lead us to avoid hateful generalisations, for authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence.
Francis, by virtue of his position as successor of St. Peter, can, according to Catholic teaching, speak authoritatively about Catholic doctrine: he has the authority to delineate what is authentic Catholicism.
However, his above statement “authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence” is about “authentic Islam” and I would like to know how he came to this asinine conclusion.
With whom should Francis consult since the Pope of Rome has no counterpart, no Muslim authority to which he can appeal to in order to discover what “authentic Islam” consists of?
In fact all Muslim authorities would disagree with his statement that “authentic Islam” is “opposed to every form of violence.”
Tragically, his track record proves that Francis LOVES Muslims and Islam more than Christians and Jews. Francis has publicly and politically aligned himself with the enemies of Israel and Christians. All his platitudes are blatantly FALSE, Duplicitous and Hypocritical because his actions are what counts; not his words.
Furthermore, Francis does not have the moral authority to sit in judgement over President Donald J Trump considering how failed his policies have so far been politically, religiously and morally.
IQ al Rassooli
Kafir & Proud!
http://www.alrassooli.com
MAGA & DTS!
Champ says
Bravo, IQ al Rassooli!
Larry says
It’s funny, I once know one of the Catholic Church’s leading experts on Islam (the other one at the time became Pope Benedict) and he would have disagreed vehemently with the current Peronista anti pope in regards to islam.
This is what you get when the Cardinals select a South American Jesuit as Pope.
And total loony. He claims he never bought into Liberation Theology like so many of the rest of the South American Jesuits, but he is without a doubt a fascist (ie socialist) Peronista.
And it’s the Peronistas who took Argentina from being very much on a par with Australia and Canada prior to WWII to the dung heap it is today.
Carolyne says
What could the Pope mean by “Proper reading of the Koran?” Is there an improper reading of the Koran? No, there is only the reading of the Koran. It apparent he has not read it, properly or improperly. He is a mouth-breather. Mouth breathing can cause several health problems, but I don’t think it affects the brain. Must be another reason.
Perhaps the Pope saw Madonna in “Don’t cry for me Argentina” and thought she was really Ava Peron.. There must be some reason he is so misguided, despite the fact that he is mentally deficient.
somehistory says
I care not for how he sees things or for what is his analysis. He is a child of satan the devil and wishes to do the desires of his father. He is a snake, a wolf pretending to be a sheep, pretending to be a shepherd of Christ’s sheep.
He will soon face the Divine Judge of all.
Champ says
I completely agree, Somehistory.
Wellington says
He’s not a child of Satan, blah, blah, blah. He is “merely” a complete fool and perhaps an asshole as well. No need to engage in histrionics in order to properly characterize this underwhelming human being who unfortunately holds a very high office and has a great deal of influence.
Peggy says
I don’t think he’s a fool. I think he knows exactly what he is doing.
The asshole bit is well deserving but I would go a bit further as t say he is evil.
Wellington says
Anyone who thinks that a pope is “a child of Satan” is functioning in retrograde,16th-century Protestant mode, which the vast majority of Protestants, though sadly not all, long ago distanced themselves from.
I tend to think that “the pope as Satan” rot is, not surprisingly, wrapped up with those who, among other things, can only treat the Bible literally and not metaphorically (e.g., actually believing that an Adam and Eve existed rather than them being looked upon as an Everyman subject) and who even deny the MASSIVE evidence for evolution and who mischaracterize evolution, contra Pope John Paul II who said of it, “It is more than just a hypothesis,” with an inability to distinguish man descendant from apes (which is clearly not the case) as opposed to man descendant from ape-like creatures that both man and the four present pongids are descendant from (a HUGE distinction here), or who irresponsibly and ignorantly invoke something like the Second Law of Thermodynamics to disprove evolution when, in fact, the Second Law of Thermodynamics only applies to a closed system, whereas the earth (and the other planets) function in an open system because of the renewal power of the sun.
Christianity is not best served by narrow-mindedness and possession of just a little knowledge. No indeed it is not. Unfortunately, there exists some Christians who harbor an inveterate animosity towards the Roman Catholic Church and accurate science, coupled with an inability to distinguish religion as metaphor for universal truths as opposed to religion as something that needs to be placed in opposition to scientific fact. As the Angelic Doctor of the Roman Catholic Church, Saint Thomas Aquinas, wisely noted over seven hundred years ago, the Bible was never meant to be a scientific treatise.
Kepha says
Well, for the most part, I’m a 167th century Protestant. Although, I freely admit that one of the things I found in Calvin’s Commentary on Genesis was a dictum that to study astronomy, one must go elsewhere.
This Pope’s problem is that the politics of his homeland and the history of Europe seem to offer no real alternatives save self-destructive “openness” or a harsh and brutal dictatorship. It probably helped not a whit that he was formed in the era of Peronism, coups, and urban geurrillas in Argentina–and chose the “revolutionary” side, which seems to do nothing but throw up another disgussting little tyranny once it wins.
Peggy says
I don’t think that the Pope is a child of satan. I just think he’s evil. Anyone who can watch his fellow Christians suffer so much and not speak up against the very people who are inflicting so much suffering but instead kiss their feet (he’d be better off kissing their arses) can’t have much humanity in them.
All of us here know how much it hurts us to know how innocent people are tortured and killed by these monsters and here he is, a man with so much influence, not even acknowledging it. That’s just evil as far as I’m concerned.
PRCS says
Whew!
gravenimage says
Kepha wrote:
Well, for the most part, I’m a 167th century Protestant…
………………………
Kepha, my friend, I realize you were trying to decide between “16th century” and “17th century” and missed the edit–but I confess I’m rather enjoying this typo…
somehistory says
Sorry to disappoint you, W, but I don’t agree with you this time. If you believed in what Christ Jesus said, you would recognize that Jesus called the religious *leaders* of His day *children* of the devil. He said, “You are from your father the devil and you wish to do the desires of the devil. That one was a murderer when he began because he does not stand fast in the truth. The truth is not in him.”
pope guy is a liar. He knows full well that he is a liar and he lies in furtherance of evil. That makes him a child of satan the devil. Agree or not, I don’t care because you are not the authority on religious matters.
Insult us if you will. You are not my judge and jury and what you say about Christians with whom you don’t agree, is of no importance. We have the same rights you have for free speech and a part of that is the freedom to disagree. Funny that I have been the object of insults from people on here for only voicing my views on the article. May as well voice my opinion otherwise. Take this any way you care to.
somehistory says
Correction: “You are from your father the devil, and you wish to do the desires of *your father*”…not the desires of “the devil” as I wrote it.
And, W, you don’t know me well enough to know what, if any, feelings I have toward the *Catholic* church, Catholics, what I believe about the Bible as being *all* literal or not and whether or not I am unscientific in my thinking. You have stated many times that you are agnostic. That makes it nothing to me as to what you think I as a Christian should or should not say about what the Bible says regarding what is happening…so call me retrograde and claim that I do Christianity no good. This is my one and only reply to you on the subject.
I’m on earth to please my heavenly Father and His Son. If my faith displeases you or anyone else, that is not my problem.
Champ says
Bravo, Somehistory!! Spot on response!
Wellington says
I am not insulting you, somehistory, I am refuting you.
And, per your comment, that I don’t know what you really think about the Catholic Church, well then why not tell others (forget about me whom you have dismissed) what you think about the Catholic Church? Go ahead, give it a shot. What do you think about the Roman Catholic Church? About the papacy? Dodge this and I will conclude you are a wuss.
And finally, I will relate what I am really tired of here at JW and it is this: Some Protestants and some Orthodox believers regularly inveigh against Roman Catholicism. They do so ordinarily with little knowledge and much bigotry. Sick of this shit and, while we’re at it, don’t forget that Robert Spencer is a Roman Catholic.
I am exceedingly tired here at JW of ignorance by people who should know better (this would include you). To aver, as you did, that Jesus called religious leaders children of the devil means exactly what where Roman Catholicism is concerned? I take it by this remark of yours that you believe the Roman Catholic faith is something spawned by the devil. If I am wrong in my assumption here, then by all means correct my mistaken assumption and I will respond accordingly. If I am correct here in my assumption, then you are indeed a loon and I don’t care that you don’t care what I think about your religious beliefs.
somehistory says
Thank you, again, Champ. It may be hard for others, non-Christians, to understand. Many don’t wish to and others don’t make the attempt.
Jesus gave us so much to learn and by which to live and gain God’s favor and blessing. Two things that might seem contrary to those outside the faith are, “Who are you to judge the house servant of another?” and “By their fruits you will recognize them.”
I noticed that W is trying to bait me, again with insulting words. But I’m not his fish to catch.
Stay well, Champ. Keep fighting the fine fight of the faith.
Champ says
You’re welcome, Somehistory! And thank you for the well wishes. Blessings to you dear brother and friend! 🙂
Wellington says
I am not trying to bait you, somehistory, only trying to clarify where you stand on Roman Catholicism. Seems to me you think it something nefarious, ditto for the papacy.
If I’m wrong about this, then just set the record straight. No baiting going on here at all, just a seeking of clarification since, per your 8:42 P.M. post above, your 5:29 P.M. post too, it seems you have quite a distaste not just for the present pope (here we can agree) but for Roman Catholicism and the papacy in general.
somehistory says
Wellington,
I said I was not going to reply, but out of respect for things you have previously written on other threads, and as you have clearly not understood,
I have no animosity for anyone who is trying to do the right thing…if anyone is endeavoring to live by even one of the lessons Jesus gave, such as what has come to be called the Golden Rule, then I feel that they must produce some “good fruit.”
Unlike a lot of people, I do not *belong* to any congregation (church). I have seen things in all of the different *churches* with which I disagree. Concerning what Jesus said, “You received free, give free.” If they charge to tell others the “good news”…are they obeying His command?
The Apostle Paul said, “In later periods of time, some would fall away from the faith…forbidding to marry…”. Contrary to what Jesus said about a man or woman making that choice for him/herself, does not the Catholic Church *forbid* some to marry?
I don’t believe that the *pope* is sitting in the place of Christ. If another person does because of what He said to Peter, that is their choice. Had I been taught that this what Jesus meant, I might believe it or I might have changed my mind on it. I do not know because I was not taught to believe it. I don’t believe it now. I can’t see that I ever will believe it.
I see only Christ between me and His/my Father. Jesus said that is the Way…that He is “The Way, and the Truth and the Life,” and that “no one comes to the Father except through Me,” I don’t need a pope or priest or preacher to approach the Father for me or to “forgive” my sins. I don’t believe that any man can forgive sins against God, only wrongs committed against themselves.
I have friends who are Catholic. I have friends who were Catholic before they changed their beliefs.
I leave it to God Himself and to His Son (I don’t believe in a *Trinity*) as to whom is given eternal life according to their promises.
But, I can do as Jesus said: recognize each one by his/her fruit.
I have done a lot of reading of religious history. I don’t claim to recall all that I have read, nor do I claim to have read it all. I certainly don’t claim to know everything.
But, I do trust that Christ told us what to look for in another person as to whether to trust him/her. And the devil’s children are all liars.
And, I am fully aware that Mr. Spencer is Catholic. I don’t hold it that he is not worthy of respect, I have defended him on other threads. I think he is in an entirely different category than is the pope.
Jesus said that good and unfit fish would be caught in the *dragnet.* He knows who are good and who are not; the sheep and the goats; His sheep and those who are pretending.
Does any of this sound loonish? If so, then I have no more to say on the matter.
Rufolino says
The Pope is not a liar. A liar knows what he says is false. The Pope believes what he says is right. He is a spectacularly deluded fool.
Champ says
Somehistory asks:
“Does any of this sound loonish?”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No, not at all, Somehistory. You are not a “loon”, and someone as intelligent, kind and considerate as you, certainly doesn’t deserve to be labeled that way. Take care, my friend.
somehistory says
Champ, You are sweet to say what you have and I appreciate it greatly. I think the same about you and hope your day goes well. 🙂
Wellington says
Hmmm. By your own admittance, somehistory, you don’t believe in the Trinity per your 11:34 P.M. post of January 23rd. You know of course that this means you are not an orthodox (small “”o” here) Christian. From the standpoint of Roman Catholicism, mainstream Protestantism and Orthodoxy, you are heretical in your belief here. The Trinity is an essential doctrine of Christianity and I find it quite surprising that you don’t accept it Even one other commenter on this thread who has supported you, Champ by name, I am virtually certain could not go along with you here.
As for your take on Roman Catholicism, you more or less didn’t answer my question what you think about it, though remarks by you about the devil’s children and popes “sitting in the place of Christ”, etc., leads me to be believe you have a pretty low opinion of the Catholic faith. You should at least know, however, that for Catholics Matthew 16:19 serves as the scriptural authorization for the institution of the papacy, though of course Protestants and the Orthodox interpret this verse differently, but then so many religious verses can be interpreted differently, and most especially those in the last book of the New Testament, Revelations (Apocalypse), which has one verse after another that can be interpreted most anyway one wants to.
Champ says
Wellington wrote:
The Trinity is an essential doctrine of Christianity and I find it quite surprising that you don’t accept it. Even one other commenter on this thread who has supported you, Champ by name, I am virtually certain could not go along with you here.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes, I do believe in the Trinity, and I think that “Got Questions” tackles this difficult topic best …
Question: “What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?”
Answer: The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity is that there is no way to perfectly and completely understand it. The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are; therefore, we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. The Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Though we can understand some facts about the relationship of the different Persons of the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the human mind. However, this does not mean the Trinity is not true or that it is not based on the teachings of the Bible.
More here: https://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Somehistory wrote:
I see only Christ between me and His/my Father. Jesus said that is the Way…that He is “The Way, and the Truth and the Life,” and that “no one comes to the Father except through Me,” I don’t need a pope or priest or preacher to approach the Father for me or to “forgive” my sins. I don’t believe that any man can forgive sins against God, only wrongs committed against themselves.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Somehistory, as you know, we are to believe on the LORD Jesus Christ to be saved, so a person doesn’t necessarily have to believe in the Trinity for salvation.
And I think that John Piper explains salvation well, and he also touches on the issue of the Trinity:
http://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/what-must-someone-believe-in-order-to-be-saved
Take care, dear brother.
somehistory says
W,
For a person who does not believe, you certainly have strong ***opinions***.
I don’t base my faith on anyone else. No one carries my load for me and no one else can *answer* for me when Christ comes to judge us. I will be judged on what I and I alone have done, believe, have not done, do not believe…because only God and His Son are the Judges and only they can read the heart.
I have reasons…and I’m not the only person who does not believe in the Trinity…for not believing. One, Jesus said that He “came to do …not my(His own) will….but the Will of HIM that …sent me.”
Another: “The Father is greater than I am.”
Another: “He is the firstborn…of …all…creation.” Meaning that Christ was created by God as the Firstborn Son and all other things were created through Him and for Him and by Him. He is personified in Proverbs as Wisdom.
My thoughts on organized religion…and yes…including your favorite…are that none of them….not one…has the complete Truth about God taught therein. I believe that it is possible to please our Creator God and His Only Begotten Son without adhering to any group and abiding by man-made rules.
The near worship of the pope by many is not according to Scripture. He is no better, no more endowed to do God’s will than is any other human.
Clearly, in the times when the nation of Israel was known as God’s Chosen People, there were many who did not do according to God’s Laws. The same is true in all of the church organizations present today.
Since each person must carry his/her own load…much like one must carry a backpack across a set of miles, each one must carry his/her own load of responsibility to God. If one chooses to say they do not believe in God, they reject their load. They will face the consequences.
For the one accepting the load, it’s kind of like we get to pack the backpack ourselves. If we choose to allow others to pack it for us, we still must carry it alone, no matter how heavy or light. If we pack it ourselves with things that to us make sense, that seem right, that are reasoned out and not dictated by another human, then we carry it, knowing we have a clean conscience. We still face the consequences, but it is easier than putting our faith in humans who make mistakes and are not our judges…but in God and His Son who are Righteous and do not make errors of judgment.
We can pack with the fresh water of life that God offers, and the freedom to speak to Him in prayer and the faith that He will answer and help us. And when we reach the end of our journey, He will reward us with life eternal.
You say I am a heretic. I still don’t care. Yes, others do believe in the Trinity. I am not saying what is right for them to follow, nor that they should change the way they worship God based on my belief.
Jesus told His Father, “I have finished the work…YOU sent me to do.”
I am trying to live my life as Christ has told me to do.
Jesus told His Father that He had not lost any of the sheep “Given to” Him by God, except for the one, Judas.
I have not been given any sheep. I have been given some understanding of the Bible and I have asked for and have been given Holy Spirit. I try to do as I am guided by that Helper.
Jesus has “been given all authority”…by His Father, “to do judging.”
You may think you are “refuting” me, but I don’t see it that way. I am inclined to recall the Apostle Peter’s words about those who don’t believe in God or the good news about the Christ, and knowing what those ones do. I agree with what Peter wrote, and also what he said when asked by Jesus, “Who do you say I am?” and Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God.”
If God or His Son find fault with me and my belief, I will know it sooner or later.
It really doesn’t matter what I think about the Catholic church or any church. I have been in Presbyterian, Baptist, Church of Christ, Lutheran,Methodist, and as I said before, have friends who are/were Catholic. I have listened to different preachers…even Catholic…on tv programs. What I think of them means nothing to anyone except to me. I am not the Judge. I may have made personal judgments, but so does every human. These guide my personal decisions.
Jesus said that He and the Father were “One,” but He also said that His disciples were “one” with Him. That is not a trinity. (John 17). And He was speaking, not just of those disciples back then, but of all of His disciples, including those living today.
somehistory says
Champ,
I realized when I wrote my comment to W, that you believe in the Trinity. I know most people who love Christ believe it. I did not say that I do not believe it to discourage anyone who believes it, nor try to say that I know and understand everything.
I fully believe that you understand that. I just am writing this to let you know for a certainty.
I have read much about the Trinity, when it came to be a doctrine of the Church and the circumstances. I have read just about everything written on the subject and have studied and prayed about it.
I feel certain that if not believing it would keep me from life eternal, God and His Son would change my heart and mind to accept the doctrine.
I don’t place importance on church doctrine…and each church has some…that I place on what the writers of the Bible said, what they wrote that Jesus said in guiding my decisions.
I also believe that if one is sincerely trying to please God and walk as Jesus did to the best of the person’s ability, God will help to clarify anything that is important enough to affect the final outcome for that one.
Jesus said, “This means everlasting life, the taking in of the knowledge of YOU and of the One Whom YOU sent forth, Jesus Christ.”
Those of us who are, as Paul wrote, “rightly disposed for everlasting life,” know we must continue to learn about God and His Son. The more we learn about Jesus, Who was seen, the more we learn about His Father, Who was not seen.
Thank you.:)
Champ says
Somehistory, thank you for writing, and I greatly appreciate your kind words and friendship. And I have absolutely *no* issue with you regarding the Trinity. Believing in the Trinity is not essential to salvation, and I only addressed the topic because my name came up. I think you know this, but I wanted to clarify.
Have a blessed day, my friend! 🙂
somehistory says
:TY, Champ. And you also. )
Champ says
YW! 😉
Mark Swan says
To My Fiends somehistory and Champ
The supreme way in which God chose to reveal Himself was through Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Make no mistake about it; Jesus was no ordinary man. He was not simply a “good man” or even a prophet. He was nothing less than Immanuel—God with us! John 1:1–3 gives us the most fundamental explanation of Jesus’ identity. “In the beginning,” John wrote, “was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.” John explains that “the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth” (v. 14).
Though Christ had shared incredible power and glory with the Father from eternity, He voluntarily emptied Himself of that to become our Savior (Hebrews 2:7).
Little has changed in 2,000 years. Paul called the message of Christ crucified “a stumbling block” and “foolishness” to the world of his day. Yet from Genesis through Revelation, God reveals that mankind is cut off from Him as a result of sin, and needs redemption and reconciliation. The Role of the Holy Spirit In John 14:16–20, Jesus emphasized that after His departure to be with the Father, the disciples would not simply be abandoned (the Greek term used in verse 18 is orphanous, meaning “orphans”). Rather, through the power of the Holy Spirit (1 John 3:24), Jesus and the Father would dwell inside true Christians (John 14:20, 23).
The Holy Spirit imparts both understanding and strength. It flows out from God (15:26), and connects our minds to His. God is Spirit (4:24); the Holy Spirit is not some separate and distinct personality of the Godhead. Rather, the Holy Spirit is the means by which Christ and the Father make their presence felt in the hearts and minds of believers. The Holy Spirit is God’s outflowing power (Luke 1:35). It imparts God’s love as it is “poured out” in the hearts of believers (Romans 5:5). It is the means by which He created and brought into existence the very universe (Psalm 104:30). It is the power by which He works in the minds of human beings made in His image (Genesis 6:3). It is also the power by which the lame miraculously walked, the blind saw, the deaf heard and the dead were raised from their graves during Jesus Christ’s earthly ministry (Luke 5:15–17).
The Bible describes the Holy Spirit in various ways. Primarily, the Spirit is compared to wind. After all, pneuma—the Greek word for “spirit”—means “wind” or “breath.” In the Old Testament, the Hebrew word translated “spirit” is ruach, and has the same meaning as the Greek pneuma. Another common analogy is of flowing water ( John 7:38–39). Just as air and water are necessary life-giving forces, so the Holy Spirit is the source of eternal life for Christians (Romans 8:11). Just as air and water both flow, and have power to affect and change what they touch, so also does the Holy Spirit.
God offers us His Spirit for a purpose! Through it, we come to share in God’s power, His attitude, His love and His thoughts. God’s Spirit is intended to transform our lives by renewing our minds (Titus 3:5; Romans 12:2). We become a new creation because God is changing us, writing His laws in our hearts and minds (Hebrews 8:10).
In the opening chapter of 1 John, the “beloved Apostle” described the importance of our fellowship with God and with one another. Notice what John wrote—that “truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ” (v. 3). The Bible nowhere speaks of our having fellowship with the Holy Spirit in the same way that we have with the Father and with Christ. Rather, the Holy Spirit flows out from the Father and Christ (John 15:26), and is the basis of our connection to God and to one another. It is the means by which Christ lives His life in us (Galatians 2:20).
Did you know that the word “trinity” is nowhere mentioned in the Bible? There are, however, a couple of passages of Scripture that are sometimes quoted to lend credence to Trinitarian teaching. Evidence from Paul’s Epistles Nearly all of Paul’s epistles contain an opening verse similar to Romans 1:7: “Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” The books of 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 and 2 Thessalonians and Philemon all open with an identical phrase. A slightly modified version opens 1 and 2 Timothy and Titus. Similar phrases open 2 Peter, 2 John, and Jude. Yet none of the books of the New Testament open with anything even approaching a Trinitarian greeting, linking the Holy Spirit with the Father and Christ as a separate and distinct personality. Paul would never dishonor or neglect the Person of God; we see from his epistles that he did not address the Holy Spirit vital to Christian life, as a person like Jesus Christ or the Father.
First, note 1 John 5:7: “For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one.” On the surface, this verse seems to teach the Trinity quite clearly. However, there is one problem: this verse was never in any of the inspired Greek manuscripts. Bible scholars, almost without exception, admit that that this verse originated as a monkish insertion into the Latin text! The Interpreter’s One Volume Commentary on the Bible explains that, during fourth century controversies about the doctrine of the Trinity, the text was expanded—first in Spain around 380ad, and then taken up in the Vulgate—the official Roman Catholic version written in Latin (p. 939). Bullinger’s Companion Bible explains, in its footnote on the text of 1 John 5:7: “The words are not found in any Gr. MS. [Greek manuscripts] before the sixteenth century. They were first seen in the margin of some Latin copies. Thence they have crept into the text.” Clearly the early Trinitarian teachers of the Roman Catholic Church were at such a loss to find biblical substantiation for their teaching that they resorted to adding words to the text!
Advocates of the Trinity often turn to chapters 14 and 15 of John to support their idea that the Holy Spirit is a person just like the Father and Jesus Christ. On the night of His final Passover, Jesus told His disciples that He was going to return to the Father, but would send them another Helper. The Greek word translated as “Helper” is paracletos, which usually refers to someone who gives help or support. In the context of John 14 it clearly refers to the Holy Spirit, which Jesus promised to send to His disciples after His ascension back to the Father (Acts 1:4–5; John 15:26). Because these verses use the English pronoun “he,” many have assumed that the Holy Spirit should be considered as a “person” of the Godhead. But this is a misunderstanding, brought about by translation from the original Greek. In Greek, nouns are routinely assigned fixed “gender,” which has nothing to do with either physical gender or personhood. For example, the Greek noun for “little girl” is neuter, while the word for “hand” is feminine—whether or not it refers to part of a woman’s body. Greek requires that the pronoun used—he, she or it—always agree with the noun to which it refers. In Greek, the noun pneuma—translated as “spirit”—is neuter, and always takes a neuter pronoun such as “it,” while paracletos is masculine and demands a masculine pronoun. The pronoun used has nothing whatsoever to do with proving personhood!
Weighing in against the secular humanists and New Agers who increasingly dominate Western culture, Trinitarians often view themselves as “defenders of the faith.” They believe they are defending the Bible against those who undermine its revelation as the source of our knowledge of God.
But are they, really? Where did this so-called “Christian orthodoxy” about God’s nature originate?
Jude, writing three decades after the founding of the New Testament Church, exhorted the brethren to earnestly contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints (Jude 3). In other words, the true Christian faith had already been delivered, intact, prior to Jude’s writing. Jude—Jesus’ half-brother as a son of Joseph and Mary—explained that ungodly men had secretly crept into the Church, and were already beginning to distort the true doctrines that Jesus Christ had delivered to His disciples.
Roman Catholic scholars admit that Tertullian (ca. 150–225) was the first writer to use the term “trinity” in an attempt to describe the Christian Godhead.
Why, then, if this “trinity” teaching were true, was it not “revealed” until more than 150 years after Jesus Christ’s crucifixion and resurrection?
Greek philosophical writings, rather than the biblical text, form the background of third century discussions of the “trinity.” The Roman Catholic New Theological Dictionary makes a number of frank admissions in this regard. Concerning the Scriptural teaching on the nature of the Holy Spirit, in its article, “Trinity,” it acknowledges: “As such, the Spirit is never the explicit object of NT worship, nor is the Spirit ever represented in NT discourse as interacting in an interpersonal way with the Father and the Son.”
Why did Christ’s original disciples, and Paul, not explain this doctrine? In fact, they taught a very different explanation of the nature of the true God!
The ultimate destiny of human beings, originally made in God’s image from the dust of the ground, is that they might be converted or changed by an inward spiritual renewal and ultimately born again into the very Family of God at the resurrection. God is bringing many sons to glory (Hebrews 2:10)! Jesus Christ is described as the firstborn among many brethren (Romans 8:29). Notice Scripture’s plain revelation about the Godhead. In Genesis 1:1, we read that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The Hebrew word used for God is Elohim—a word that is plural in form though often singular in usage.
A little later, in Genesis 1:26, we learn that God said: “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.” God’s supreme purpose is to reproduce Himself!
Notice what Paul explained in Romans 8:14: “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.” What is the implication of this? If we are God’s children, we are His heirs; “heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ” (v. 17). Ultimately, God’s children will be “filled with all the fullness of God” (Ephesians 3:19).
God is building a family, and that family takes its name from the Father—it is the Family of God (3:14–15). The real truth of what God is like, and what He is doing, goes far beyond anything that most have ever imagined. God is knowable because He has chosen to reveal Himself. He wants you to come to know Him, and to build a relationship with Him that will lead to you being part of His very family forever!
Champ says
Somehistory wrote:
“He is a child of satan the devil and wishes to do the desires of his father.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Of course you are correct about the pope, Somehistory …
“He is a child of satan the devil and wishes to do the desires of his father.” — John 8:44
And “Got Questions” explains this verse from the Bible more thoroughly yet succintly:
Question: “What does it mean that Satan is the father of lies (John 8:44)?”
Answer: https://www.gotquestions.org/father-of-lies.html
Take care, my friend! 🙂
Pong says
John 8 is all about the jews. It is one of the most anti-semitic rightings in the new testament. It wouldn’t be out of place in koran.
At the same time it pictures Jesus as a narcissistic and arrogant person.
One thing I like about John 8 is the part when people didn’t through stones at a woman accused of adultery. That was extremely moral crowd to recognise sin in themselves. Can you imagine another mob in any time, in any place acting on such moral hight?
Champ says
John 8 is all about the jews. It is one of the most anti-semitic rightings in the new testament.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is a gross mischaracterization of Jesus and whom he was addressing in John 8 …
First and foremost, Jesus was a Jew, and Jesus was addressing a specific “group of Jews”, not Jews on the whole. In Jesus’ time there were a group of religious Jews known as the Sanhedrin: Pharisees and Sadducees, whom Jesus rightly exposed as religious hypocrites.
And in this passage context is key, and “Pong” is attempting to distort the truth of this passage.
As to the remainder of “Pong’s” comment, it’s disjointed and nonsensical, at best.
Kepha says
Beg to differ, Pong. Sure, if Jesus is not God Incarnate, then his claims show him to be either an arrogant narcissist, a madman, or both. It’s why I have no time for the “What a wonderful proto-humanitarian this Jesus was” sort of talk. As a matter of fact, Pong, it seems that you and I may even agree on that, even if we go in polar opposite directions.
In any case, I accept it that the eternal Word of God joined himself to our humanity in Jesus Christ, and so remains fully God and fully man in one person forever (Yes, I believe in the, Holy Trinity and in the dual nature of Jesus Christ).
As for John being anti-Semitic, there are huge problems with that.
Jesus (and his disciple John) speak as Jews to Jews in John. His fierce criticism is no more “anti-Semitic” than when Ezekiel says “Your father was an Amorite and your mother a Hittite” (Ezk. 16–note the prophet uses the names of two nations which God put under the ban in the days of Moses and Joshua). For that matter, what of Hosea likening Israel to an adulterous wife? Moses himself had some pretty hard words for the people of Israel. I’ll thus accept John as an ant-Semite, if you’ll accept the same about Moses and the Prophets.
The West’s self-critical spirit was not born in the supposedly “clear Athenian air” or “the Aryan insistence on being free” as people my age were once taught, but among the Patriarchs, Moses, and Prophets of Israel. Indeed, the finding of the West’s self-critical tradition among the Athenians or the “Aryan spirit” often accompanied a very real anti-Semitism.
As for John supposedly being a late composition divorced from the “historical Jesus” (usually a construct of vain people who state down the well of 2 millennia to see their own faces reflected in the bottom, as Albert Schweitzer put it in _Vom Reimarus zu Wrede_), I can only note the the Gospel of John is replete with things that suggest an eyewitness. “Jesus sat thus on Jacob’s Well” (Jn. 4:6–where the King James very faithfully ehoes the -outos- in Greek, whereas the RSV leaves it untranslated). There were the five porticoes at the Pool of Siloam where Jesus heals a paralytic–which 19th century German critics were certain were a mere symbol for the books of Moses, only to have aarchaeologists uncover their foundations later. Numerous scholars, both believing (Bauckham, Bruce) and unbelieving have noted that John’s topographical details mesh very nicely the archaeological record–and he has far more than in the Synoptics. Indeed, the believing conclude that John actually saw Judaea and Jerusalem before 70 A.D., the critics say that “JOhn” used a source from somebody who did.
For a Jewish perspective, you might check out Daniel Boyarin’s little book _Jewish Gospels_, which argues that there is absolutely nothing in the Gospels which lacks a Jewish precedent.
As for Jesus’ exposing the Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes, and Sanhedrin as religious hypocrites, I note that John does not hesitate to note the dissents of Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus against Jesus’ condemnation; in Jesus’ conversation with the Samaritan woman, he is identified as and accepts identification as a Jew; and Gentiles, apart from Pontius Pilate and a squad of Roman soldiers on crucifxion detail, Gentiles scarcely appear in John.
Moving on to the condemnation of religious hypocrisy, it’s been a commonplace of Christian preaching to Christians ever since Paul wrote to the Corinthians (back when nobody guessed that “Christian” and “Jewish” would one day be taken as mutually exclusive)–and Christian preachers from Paul and the Apostles on would be the first to acknowledge the Jewish seedbed from which their religion sprang.
Being of partially Jewish descent, a Christian, and having lived a good chunk of my life in Buddhist and Daoist countries, I’ll never say that the original message of Jesus got “Gentilized” by Paul or anyone else, but rather that Paul and his successors Judaized the Mediterranean and European worlds (a point on which I freely admit I agree with Adolf Hitler, whose memory I otherwise loathe).
Indeed, the finding of “anti-Semitism” in John reflects the modern reader’s expectation that someone speaking to and for his own “tribe” would have to be laudatory and self-congratulatory in stead of critical. To this, I can only urge people to go read the Old Testament.
Back to the Pope likening Trump to Hitler: I see Frankie the Argentine as indulging in rhetorical excess that is either irresponsible, ignorant, or both.
Finally, Pong, it’s writings, not rightings; Semitic, nor Semetic.
somehistory says
Thank you, Champ. I appreciate your comment and well-wishes. I hope the same for you as we “endure to the end.”
The Apostle John wrote in 1 John 3:10 how to identify the children of God and how to identify the children of the devil. And he was inspired to write it.
Champ says
The Apostle John wrote in 1 John 3:10 how to identify the children of God and how to identify the children of the devil. And he was inspired to write it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Very true, Somehistory!
And …
“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” — Hebrews 4:12
Carolyne says
While I do not believe in God, “Maker of heaven and earth,” (Yes, I know the Nicene Creed,) I understand how religion could bring comfort to those who need to believe in a superior being controlling things on earth. It relieves one of responsibility to try to correct wrongs. And if one believes that a spiritual being will come to set the world straight, I am afraid the wait will be long, and in the meantime we must do what we can to protect ourselves rather than waiting for help that will never come
Much of Christianity is based on the teachings of St. Paul, a man who never actually met Christ In the flesh, but saw an apparition on the road to Damascus where Christ appeared to him. Or so he said. . It is from him some of the misogynistic teaching come, such as “Women should keep silent in church.” It is from him that priestly celibacy came– preaching that it was good to be unmarried, but if one could not restrain himself, he could marry–but not be a priest,
While I can see some merit in the teachings of Christianity and Judaism, I see no redeeming quality in Islam and I suggest that it is the Pope who should read the Koran correctly.
R Russell says
I suppose we will soon be hearing that the Pope is going to have the walls round the Vatican knocked down for they were initially erected to save the Vatican from the Muslim marauders.
Or is it don’t do as I do, do as I say!
Joe says
Can somebody just go into connections of the Pope and #pizzagate. I wouldn’t be surprised.
John C. Barile says
I do believe you speak facetiously–and it amuses me.
davej says
So he first condemns and vilifies Trump, then says don’t prejudge him?
What a noble example to us all, truly a moral leader.
Wellington says
This pope is doing tremendous damage to the Roman Catholic Church. Time will tell just how much damage. An exceedingly unfortunate choice for Pontifex Maximus was he. Were I a Roman Catholic it would break my heart that such a lesser man was elevated to the august office of the papacy. Perhaps worse yet is that he is elevating to the College of Cardinals many who think like him and so, as with Obama, his legacy will insure harm for a long time to come.
Truly tragic. Not necessarily irreversible tragedy but tragedy nonetheless.
bernie says
The Vatican needs its own Trump as Pope. Not likely for the cardinals to choose one later, but you never know.
Peggy says
Unfortunately Vatican elections are not open to the public like presidential elections.
The crooked cardinals who elected him will only do the same thing next time.
mortimer says
I shudder to think that Wellington is right regarding the long-term damage Marxist Bergoglio may cause.
The only thing that thoughtful RCs can do is to WITHHOLD their offerings or give it to CLERGY WHO ‘GET IT’ about the jihad threat.
When the Curia realizes that the faithful are financing counterjihad, they may try to alter their ships course by censuring this foolish pontiff.
thevilestofcreatures says
As a lifetime Catholic all I can say is I want this robe wearing Trotskite tossed out on his ass
mortimer says
Can anyone convince him he is wrong?
Pong says
No. It isn’t a policy to fit a pope, it is a pope to fit the policy.
Mortimer, sometimes you surprise me.
Peggy says
People power like what put Trump in the office.
Maybe if enough Catholics were united and defied the church and withdrew their money something might happen but until then what incentive will the Cardinals have to elect wisely?
Carolyne says
But the Church has the power to strike fear into the hearts of its followers–excommunication. Sort of like the Amish shunning. You can’t eat that wafer and you can sip that wine and you will go to hell. horrors.
FYI says
Oh my goodness.You really,really need to educate yourself a lot more on your knowledge of Christianity(see your post at 11;06)and Catholicism in particular.You appear to be somewhat theologically illiterate.Eating wafers and sipping wine?Where to begin….?
Kepha says
Peggy, we tried your “people power” suggestion back in the 16th century, which is how Protestants got invented.
mortimer says
Frank’s moral blindness to the jihad threat is catastrophic for the church and unparalleled in papal history for stupidity.
Can no one get through to this MONUMENTALLY FOOLISH POPE?
Westman says
There is a wall around the Vatican, protecting its identity. Pope Hypocrite, “tear down this wall!”
Dorothy says
A Pope comparing anyone to Hitler is more evil, than all Islamic evils combined. Especially a Jesuit Pope. I know no one on this site will agree with me. The Vatican Ratlines, the fact that all Islamic secret services were founded by ex-Nazis, the ex-Nazis through the Vatican giving aid to both the Syrians and the Egyptians in the 1960s, at the same time as the Soviets were. Hitler’s appointed ruler for Slovakia was a priest, that was his selling point to the SS Hitler was a Catholic altar boy. No, in fact every European fascist state leader was Catholic, no exceptions. It took leftist Catholic Spain until 1986 to recognize the existence of Israel. The Vatican took until 1993 to recognbize the existence of Israel. But how long did it take the Vatican to recognize their Devil, it was 1933 when the Pope and the whole of the Jesuits made a Concordat with Hitler. The only religious head to do so. Mein Kampf was ghost written by a Jesuit priest.
” John Cornwell
Long-buried Vatican files reveal a new and shocking indictment of World War II’s Pope Pius XII: that in pursuit of absolute power he helped Adolf Hitler destroy German Catholic political opposition, betrayed the Jews of Europe, and sealed a deeply cynical pact with a 20th-century devil.
One evening several years ago when I was having dinner with a group of students, the topic of the papacy was broached, and the discussion quickly boiled over. A young woman asserted that Eugenio Pacelli, Pope Pius XII, the Pope during World War II, had brought lasting shame on the Catholic Church by failing to denounce the Final Solution. A young man, a practicing Catholic, insisted that the case had never been proved.
Raised as a Catholic during the papacy of Pius XII—his picture gazed down from the wall of every classroom during my childhood—I was only too familiar with the allegation. It started in 1963 with a play by a young German named Rolf Hochhuth. Der Stellvertreter (The Deputy), which was staged on Broadway in 1964, depicted Pacelli as a ruthless cynic, interested more in the Vatican’s stockholdings than in the fate of the Jews. Most Catholics dismissed Hochhuth’s thesis as implausible, but the play sparked a controversy which has raged to this day.
Disturbed by the anger brought out in that dinner altercation, and convinced, as I had always been, of Pius XII’s innocence, I decided to write a new defense of his reputation for a younger generation. I believed that Pacelli’s evident holiness was proof of his good faith. How could such a saintly pope have betrayed the Jews? But was it possible to find a new and conclusive approach to the issue? The arguments had so far focused mainly on his wartime conduct; however, Pacelli’s Vatican career had started 40 years earlier. It seemed to me that a proper investigation into Pacelli’s record would require a more extensive chronicle than any attempted in the past.
So I applied for access to archival material in the Vatican, reassuring those who had charge of crucial documents that I was on the side of my subject. Six years earlier, in a book entitled A Thief in the Night, I had defended the Vatican against charges that Pope John Paul I had been murdered by his own aides.
Two key officials granted me access to secret material: depositions under oath gathered 30 years ago to support the process for Pacelli’s canonization, and the archive of the Vatican Secretariat of State, the foreign office of the Holy See. I also drew on German sources relating to Pacelli’s activities in Germany during the 1920s and 1930s, including his dealings with Adolf Hitler in 1933. For months on end I ransacked Pacelli’s files, which dated back to 1912, in a windowless dungeon beneath the Borgia Tower in Vatican City. Later I sat for several weeks in a dusty office in the Jesuit headquarters, close to St. Peter’s Square in Rome, mulling over a thousand pages of transcribed testimony given under oath by those who had known Pacelli well during his lifetime, including his critics.
By the middle of 1997, I was in a state of moral shock. The material I had gathered amounted not to an exoneration but to an indictment more scandalous than Hochhuth’s. The evidence was explosive. It showed for the first time that Pacelli was patently, and by the proof of his own words, anti-Jewish. It revealed that he had helped Hitler to power and at the same time undermined potential Catholic resistance in Germany. It showed that he had implicitly denied and trivialized the Holocaust, despite having reliable knowledge of its true extent. And, worse, that he was a hypocrite, for after the war he had retrospectively taken undue credit for speaking out boldly against the Nazis’ persecution of the Jews.
In the “Holy Year” of 1950, a year in which many millions of pilgrims flocked to Rome to catch a glimpse of Pacelli, he was at the zenith of his papacy. This was the Pius that people now in their mid-50s and older remember from newsreels and newspaper photographs. He was 74 years old and still vigorous. Six feet tall, stick thin at 125 pounds, light on his feet, regular in his habits, he had hardly altered physically from the day of his coronation 11 years earlier. He had beautiful tapering hands, a plaintive voice, large dark eyes, and an aura of holiness. It was his extreme pallor that first arrested those who met him. His skin “had a surprisingly transparent effect,” observed the writer Corrado Pallenberg, “as if reflecting from the inside a cold, white flame.” His charisma was stunning. “His presence radiated a benignity, calm and sanctity that I have certainly never before sensed in any human being,” recorded the English writer James Lees-Milne. “I immediately fell head over heels in love with him. I was so affected I could scarcely speak without tears and was conscious that my legs were trembling.”
But there was another side
Wellington says
Cornwell’s work, “Hitler’s Pope” has been discredited to a very great extent. Since its publication in 1999 even Cornwell has had to retract some of what he wrote in this highly tendentious tome. The worst thing Cornwell could find about what Pius XII ever said that was negative about the Jews was that he asserted, quite accurately, that many leading Communists were Jewish. This was the WORST thing Cornwell could find in this regard.
Moreover, the future Pius XII was completely involved with Pius XI’s total denunciation of Nazism in the encyclical, Mit Brennender Sorge, read from most every Catholic pulpit in Germany on the same Sunday in 1937 and which infuriated Hitler. As for the 1933 Concordat with Nazi Germany, one state after another sought diplomatic relations with the new Chancellor and his government, for instance the US and the UK. To single out the Vatican, which was a polity of its own, for the Concordat of 1933 is representative of selectivity at its very worst.
Finally, Eugenio Pacelli as Pope XII saved more Jews than any person in history, some 800,000. He did so by quietly working behind the scenes because he knew if he regularly spoke out against Nazism he would have far less opportunity to save both Jews and non-Jews alike. Jewish leaders at the time agreed with this strategy by Pius. Even so, he did occasionally speak out against Nazism, for instance in his Christmas message of 1942, which was a very thinly veiled criticism of Hitler and his regime and which also enraged the Fuhrer.
One of the greatest travesties of our age is that Pius XII has not received his due for all the extraordinary things he did during the most terrible war in man’s history. Thankfully, the record is in the process of being set straight but, as Winston Churchill observed, lies can get half-way around the world before the truth even gets out of the starting gate. And the contention that Mein Kampf was ghost written by a Jesuit priest is such a stupid calumny that I won’t even take the time to write anymore about this particular idiocy.
But I will say this much more as I already noted above in a previous post and it is this: I have detected here at JW over the years a rank bias against Roman Catholicism by some: I mean truly vile crap. I am not religious in the least, and the Catholic Church can be legitimately criticized for errors and wrongdoings to be sure, but the kind of criticism I often read of the Catholic Church here at JW (and at other sites) is very often rooted in hysteria, ignorance, animosity and sheer lunacy. Shame on these people.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Wellington, I am having a good laugh here, you are experiencing the life of a Catholic in a secular world.
You a good man and I said this before.
I appreciate reason, logic, the ability to seek truth.
I do understand that many people are devoid (not totally) of the moral compass that leads them to seek the truth that gives direction in human affairs. It takes courage.
God Bless you and may you always be courageous in the battle for truth and objectivity.
Dorothy says
You’re wrong, I like Catholics, and always treat Catholics the best. You just have a truly incredible history relating to your treatment of Jews. I’ve said that to Catholics I play sports with and Catholic lovers, if I don’t think they will be too sensitive to it. And no one taught it to me, no one can, you’ve censored it all. I have zero doubt I am right about this.
What happened was they had already censored most of it, before he went to look at it, and when he brought it out, as you’ve done every time, he was considered a traitor, and you censored all of it. He ended up just bringing to light what you will censor and twist.
My first paragraph has data not from Cornwell. I know you followed your rule make all evil Jewish, and Hitler Jewish on Wikipedia, he was a Catholic altar boy, he said so throughout his life.
I again make one very simple statement, that happens to be hard for you to censor completely at least yet. Every fascist state leader, even the one for the Muslims, Pavelic, was a practicing Catholic. Multiple, not one, were priests. Again, such as Tiso. A Jesuit priest had ghost written Mein Kampf, I know, in 10 years the Jews will have written it. Fellow members of the Nazi party attested to that in the early 1930s, in the Reichstag.
The Vatican ratlines have not been censored completely yet. The Concordat was too public for you to twist, ‘defend’ and censor. Cornwell did not make the Concordat the pope and the whole Vatican had. A Concordat is a big deal, a very big deal. Where’s the Concordat with Israel?
Al-Husseini the “mufti” escaped the British with the aid of the Vatican in his own words, through Iraq with the help of pro Nazi Muslim Kuakji. That act alone led to the formation of anti Serbian and Jewish forces of Croats by him, and countless other evils done by him.
It bears repeating because you’re using terms like vile. You’re conflating two things, one is vile, protestant bigotry against Catholics, another on that side is secular bigotry against religion; but there is a third a much smaller group than either of the first two,likely counted in less than 100 people, individuals, people who honestly actually like everything Catholicism stands for, but your singular abuse of the Jews up until very recently and it continues in Europe and sometimes in South America, is the biggest story in human history, and your censorship and twisting it on the Jews. Again you have a righteous religion and people in every other way imaginable. I definitely do not wish Catholicism diminished. But it wasn’t one Holocaust, that was just the one you hadn’t censored and blamed on the Jews yet. I can quote dozens of Catholic saints who called or implied all Jews must be killed, that’s not Cornwell, that’s me sitting there reading their now obscure and twisted if known, words.
Yes protestants do the same, and even worse, but they are related. And of course no one has ever or will ever call the Jews perfect, I mean they’re standing with actual God there and they start making a golden calf. Hard to be as vexing as the Jews and their satellites sometimes. You just don’t realize when I put it together and your lying, it is extraordinary, and can’t be overstated.
You even added anti-Jesus quotes to the Talmud you had pretended to censor a century earlier. You tell that to Jews and they’ll say you’re insane the Talmud is as it always was. The Talmud has been added to a thousand times by the Vatican.
And what do I think should be done about it? Nothing!! I need to make that clear. Absolute forgiveness, in every way. Both for your lie grudge against the Jews and tricks, you need to forgive the Jews for that, and Jews need to forgive and completely forget besides as a historical curiosity their grudge to you. Basically everyone else hates Jews too, polls have outside of the US 20% to 95%(“paleswinians”) antisemitic hatred on the earth right now, each and every country, I’m sure there is a Norwegian who’s sitting doing research on Antarctica who has his special reasons for despising the Jews completely, as do 20% of Singaporeans. So Jews have no option and it is their destiny to forgive everyone.
You have to take me at my word I love Catholicism, and Catholics more so, in every way but its treatment of the Jews. And using its greatness to make that a global agenda for so long; and censoring it.
You were supposed to be the one brother of the Jews, is my view not Cain and Abel.
Also God is revealing a lot about Islam, its crucifixions, its sneakiness, etc. This is the beginning of world peace. And though unlikely Jews are not going anywhere. (I hope)
Jesus never meant for you to treat the Jews as such.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Have you been to Jerusalem? Just Google Jewish spit at priest?
Now I do not hate Jewish because of that as I know it is a small segment and not all Jewish people are like that, besides we regard them as older brothers.
Being an African I do not look at religion, race, culture to make a determination if people are right or wrong. Look at the evidence, and be objective.
Here is an old report but it proves a point.
http://www.haaretz.com/christians-in-jerusalem-want-jews-to-stop-spitting-on-them-1.137099
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
In fairness here is a clip from a Protestant who is looking for a confrontation, and get a spitting from a Jewish person.
https://www.google.co.za/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjjtvqHjNvRAhVpIcAKHSpjAvEQtwIIMTAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DOaU4kttDxuE&usg=AFQjCNE2StY7Tbsob6CRSfV7BIlNL6NEVw&sig2=Nw49axdcF2MnO-5ijdUe4w
Wellington says
Dorothy: It’s hard to follow a lot of what you wrote but on the specific matter of Hitler being a Catholic, an altar boy, etc., this means absolutely nothing. Stalin was brought up an Orthodox Christian. Does this mean Stalin was Christian?
Hitler hated Christianity and this is made crystal clear from his Table Talk. His mother was a devout Catholic and that’s why when he was an boy he was brought up Catholic but to consider Hitler a Christian in any way while he was leading Germany is simply to be completely off the mark as is maintaining that Mein Kampf was ghost written by a Jesuit, as you alleged. Restudy matters to put it mildly. .
gravenimage says
Dorothy, your idea that all Nazis were Catholic is just silly. Some were Catholic, some were Lutheran or other Protestants, and many were agnostic or atheist. Your assertion is easily disproven. And Hitler was never a practicing Catholic, or any sort of Christian, as an adult.
Certainly, Nazism had *nothing* to do with Christianity of any kind.
Nazism was shot through with ideas of Teutonic Paganism–it was never a Christian movement, let alone specifically Catholic.
And while there is still disagreement on whether the pontiff should have been more vocal in his opposition to Fascism, or whether his quite approach was best, there is no doubt that he saved thousands of Jewish people, especially children, from the Holocaust.
Wellington says
Dorothy, gravenimage, is indeed someone who says lots of silly things. Compounding all this, and thus truly disturbing, is that certain others on this thread, including some who definitely should know better, have written a great deal of silly things, for instance asserting or acquiescing in the idea that the present Pope, who no doubt is a fool, is in league with Satan, blah, blah, blah.
Disgusted by such stupid rot, not by those most ignorant but by those “merely” semi-ignorant. Reminds me of that great line by Claude Rains in the film, Lawrence of Arabia, where he sapiently opines that those who engage in lies merely hide the truth, but those who engage in half-lies have long ago forgotten even where they put it.
.
gravenimage says
Agreed, Wellington. Good posts from you on this thread–thanks.
Champ says
BTW, Jesus washed his disciples feet, not those of non-believers …
Question: “What was the significance of Jesus washing the feet of the disciples?”
Answer: https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-washing-feet.html
And why is he ‘kissing’ their feet? …that’s creepy!
Mark Swan says
Very creepy—
Carolyne says
Not if one has a foot fetish. By the Way, the Queen of England also engages in foot-washing of strangers at Easter.
Kay says
Foot washing was given us as a beautiful example by Jesus. But as otherwise noted, He did not indiscriminately wash feet. When He met the demoniac, He cast out demons. When He met the blind man, He restored his sight.
Mark Swan says
Well said Kay—thank you.
gravenimage says
Foot washing is not intrinsically creepy, nor does it imply having a “foot fetish”. Here is Victorian artist Ford Madox Brown’s painting, “Jesus Washing Peter’s Feet”:
http://www.victorianweb.org/painting/fmb/paintings/1.jpg
Mark Swan says
It is not the washing (which is what Christ directed to do) it is the kissing of the feet.
Champ said ” And why is he ‘kissing’ their feet? …that’s creepy” and I agree.
Not Biblical either, nor called for—very inappropriate—-and yes very creepy.
gravenimage says
Pope likens Trump to Hitler, warns of “walls and barbed wire”
………………………..
Just *appalling*. Note that Pope Francis has never said such a thing about Muslims, who are *actually* invading Europe and slaughtering innocent people.
The idea that a vow to protect your own people makes you “Hitler” could not be more grotesque.
More:
Mr. Bergoglio, tear down that Vatican wall!
………………………..
Grimly spot on. That was was erected to keep out invading Muslims–who had previously sacked Rome. Will he tear it down? Nope–he wants to stay safe, but doesn’t care if anyone else is protected.
Alan Jennison says
I was a traditionalist Cathoilic until this anti-Pope was elected.
I cannot in any conscience consider myself a Roman Catholic while this evil man hold the papacy.
I am considering going to worship in the Society of St Pius X Churches………..I don’t know what to do for the best.
WBSM says
Alan, don’t be silly. Catholicism was never about the person of the Pope, but of the promise of Jesus. The arrogant SPX blew it when they turned against the successor of Peter. Don’t be fooled by them. There have been many weak popes in history. We have been spoiled with the popes of the last century… they were amazing. Now we have one who stirs things up. But I bet history will remember him for the reform of the Vatican and not for silly interviews.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
@ Allan Jennison
Dear Allan you seem to be confused, if you are a Traditionalist Catholic then there is no need for you to leave for Pius X church,for Pius X are,Traditionalist.
Are you another fake Catholic.
While I am on this point I always have a good chuckle when someone declares themselves a former Catholic and then displays an incoherent understanding of Church teaching,
Really make a serious study the Catholic Church before making yourself look stupid.
When we describe ourselves it is “Catholic” roman Catholic is normal a protestant term, however it does not offend us now and when confronted by aggressive secularist it is a good term to use, Orthodox Catholic is acceptable, it states clearly that we follow the Teaching of the Church
George says
Not one word about the populism of Obama and the left. No criticism of Obama’s voters calling him the Messiah, God. Remember all those Obama worshippers. Remember the breathless guy who was in disbelief that he was before the magical, supernatural Obama? “Oh, Mr President, I can’t believe I’m here, Mr President, I can’t believe you are here, yada, yada.” He went on like that for 5 minutes.
Very Telling.
He’s not very good at history, either. Bad analogy. Hitler didn’t want the Jews to leave, he rounded them up to kill. Trump doesn’t want invaders. He just wants to send the illegal invaders back to their homeland. Also, Hitler was not that popular. He got only about 10% of the vote, meaning 90% didn’t want him. He was elected because Germany at that time had about 12 to 20 different political parties. He won because the National Socialist German Workers Party, a.k.a. NAZIs, had more votes than each of the the other 19 parties, but he didn’t get the majority of the vote, not even close.
Rufolino says
Hitler was NOT elected by the German people as Chancellor in January 1933. He was inserted into this position by a tiny elitist cabal led by Hindenburg and von Papen, who believed they could continue to hold the reins of power by controlling the despised Nazi element in the “coalition” they had set up. Hitler instantly shattered their illusions.
Wellington says
I understand your point, but don’t forget that the Nazi Party polled 37% and 33% respectively in the July and November elections of 1932 and the next largest party, the Social Democrats, received only 22% and 20% respectively in these same two elections, so that by January of 1933, when Hindenburg was talked into bringing Hitler into the Cabinet by von Papen and a few others, it was felt that ignoring Hitler and the Nazis was no longer feasible. Of course, as you said, it proved to be a terrible mistake. But the fact remains that more Germans by far in 1932 voted for the Nazi Party than any other of the some eight or nine that received votes. But even after Hitler became Chancellor the final election that was held in March of 1933 still resulted in the Nazi Party “only” getting 44% of the vote.
gravenimage says
Yes–there is no doubt that the Nazi Party had not a majority, but certainly large minority support in Germany in the 1930s.
Pong says
Social Democrats and communists had majority of the votes. Stalin forbade communists to form alliance with SD, he wanted Hitler to be in power. Stalin wanted a war and Hitler could give it to him. We can say that Stalin elected Hitler.
Wellington says
In None of the nine elections, Pong, in Germany between January of 1919 and March of 1933 did the Social Democrats and Communists have a majority of the vote. The closest these two parties combined ever got in any or these nine elections was the May 1928 election where the two parties together got 41% of the vote—–11% for the Communists and 30% for the Social Democrats. So you got this wrong.
Here’s something else you got wrong: Asserting that Stalin got Hitler elected. No he did not and no respectable historian has ever maintained this. What almost all historians have maintained is that the Great Depression got Hitler elected. The Nazi Party was actually declining in strength by the late 1920s (e.g., it got 7% of the vote in the May 1924 election and by the May 1928 election this had slipped to 3%). In the September 1930 election the Nazi Party percentage of the vote had jumped to 18% and it only went up from there. The increase was due to economic hard times and not to Stalin. So you erred again. You err a lot.
Buford says
As the saying goes there is no fool like an old fool & that Idiot & Soros are not only Fools but are evil Satanic NWO promoters & need to be locked up.
TJ says
One way to make this pope look like a fool is to find and state obvious problems in the koran. The other day I was reading the koran and I came across a part where a man came up and asked the narrator of the koran a great question. He asked him, “Why are the meanest members of our tribes always leaving to join your group?” The narrator of the koran never successfully refuted his accusation. He only went on to claim his arguments were clear, which didn’t prove the man’s accusation was false. In fact, there are some statements in the koran that make it attractive to cruel people. Exaggerations against Jews, the use of a fable as a reason to kill your child, and the concealment of detailed testimony in favor of vague testimony are perverse things that would attract cruel individuals. Obviously, the man who confronted the narrator of the koran won the argument.
Donovan Nuera says
Pope Francis should have asked Benedict XVI if the Jews were fond of beheading German citizens like muslims. He was there as a teen and could have just told Francis that, in fact, Jews did not commit any violence, no less behead people. And Jews were not called Naziphobes either in the 30s. But Pope Facebook was too dumb to research before tweeting again.
Byzantium1683 says
Walls? Hitler invaded a bunch of countries, including “brown” ones. He was far from a isolationist. At most, you could say he liked expanding walls.
Next he can tell us how the good guys (anti-nazi) did not use any walls or barbed wire in their defense.
As liberals mocking Conservatives would say, it takes a good guy with a wall to stop a bad guy with a wall.
Historian says
Exactly. The problem with Hitler, even apart from first sanctioning the persecution and then annihilation of Jews and others in the territories under his rule, was that he INVADED neighboring countries–not that he was trying to keep people from migrating into Germany.
This current pope is a complete ignoramus of secular history as well as Christian and Islamic theology.
He is a perfect illustration of the weakness of having one person at the head of a church until they die. If he had any morality or humility at all he would step down soon and advocate for a less hierarchical, more flexible church structure.
Sherman1864 says
The pope is a loon! Need to replace the man. Tempted to call him an arshole. But I guess I just did. No wonder we Protestants protested!
gravenimage says
Not all pontiffs are as idiotic as is this one–certainly, Benedict wasn’t.
And I’m afraid some Protestants are just as bad–the former Archbishop of Canterbury was just as big a dhimmi. The fact is that this problem is rife in the West.
Lexa456 says
I’d like to warn the “Pope” before the purgatory which is imminent for he is an idolator, a God’s traitor and a false Prophet, who will lead the faithful into their corruption.
Carolyne says
If I believed in God and purgatory. I’d agree with the first part of your statement. I agree with the last.
melancholy observer says
I find this whole debate very sad. The simple fact is that Pope Francis is expressing opinions which are quite consistent with those of most, but not all Christian church leaders these days. In Australia the Catholic Church representing 25% of the population is nowhere near as vehement in its support for ‘refugees’ meaning Islamic invasion as the Uniting Church representing 5% of the population or the tired old Anglican Church representing 17% of the population. The present pope is only catching up with his liberal Protestant brothers who preside over churches in steep decline in the US, Canada and Australia. I am sure if his naive nonsense continues then Catholicism will see the same steep decline as liberal Protestantism. By the way the Pope is expressing moral opinions. Catholics can take them or leave them. Catholics are not obliged to agree with them. he is not speaking ex Cathedra.
WBSM says
The popes words in this post are taken out of context. He was talking about the European situation and not about Trump when he made the Hitler comment!!!
Watch and don’t be deceived. Read up on the sources.
For the comments saying the Pope is not Catholic: that is plain stupid. Throughout history the Church had plenty of “bad” popes. They were all Catholic and sinners, weak people. Jesus did not promise Peter that he will be a great guy. He promised that on this rock he will build his Church and the gates of hell won’t prevail against it. If you don’t believe that, your problem is not with the Pope, but with Jesus and the Gospel.
Pope Francis so far has upheld the teaching of the Church. That is what his job is. Then he makes some silly comments in personal interviews… so what? That makes him non-Catholic or no legitimate successor of Peter? Don’t be silly now.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
@ WBSM
Good points, Catholics are borne for combat, Hmm bad popes, yes we get them maybe for or five, but gee we have had fantastic popes. God Bless them.
It is great to be Catholic, had the other life but there is nothing greater than Confession then the Eucharist, the Rosary, one is then prepared for combat with the Armour of God. Amen
Its so sad that there are those that can not experience this.
Kay says
God reaches people in many ways. Step by step He brings them closer. He will keep seeking the lost.
Paula says
What is wrong with people. The moment that some politician wins from one side of the political spectrum, immediately someone on the other jumps up and screams, “he’s/she’s another Hitler.” It’s as if the person decrying the politician they don’t like actually want that politician to be Hitler. That way they can scream, “See? I told you so.” But the truth of the matter is that politicians on the level of a Hitler are more rare than those who are not. It is time to stop the hysteria and assess each leader for who he, or she, is. And just stop the nonsense. /end rant.
Carolyne says
Tell that to the Pope.
Angemon says
Yes, Frankie-boy, Hitler had that on you – he was elected by the people he purposed to lead.
Much like Angela “open-borders-no-questions-asked” Merkel…
n tesdorf says
The Pope is clearly confused and senile. He really meant to sat that Muhammed could be likened to Hitler. In this he was accurate. He did not mean to mention Trump.
WBSM says
and he didn’t. Read the original of the Pope in context. He is not saying the Hitler thing about Trump!
gravenimage says
He’s saying it about “populist movements”–this is a pretty clear reference to Trump, Wilders, and phenomena like Brexit.
duh swami says
Selling your soul to a demon…Demonizing propel is an evil activity for hyper religious guy….In order to demonize \you meed to entertain a demon…If the demon is not in you, you won’t demonize anyone…
Omar says
The pope is a pedophile that secretly supports islam because they all love those little boys backsides. There seems to be no difference between islam and catholicism. Christianity is not catholic in any form. Bible forbids praying to so called saints, mary and only God can forgive sin, not any priest.
RichardL says
the priest doesn’t forgive the sin. Only God does. Whenever a priest “forgives: a sin, he does so only because the Holy Spirit is present.
I also wonder what makes you state that the Pope “is” a pedophile. Is this, in the end, nothing but a cheap shot meant to insult Roman Catholics? If yes: I am not insulted at all and doubt any Catholic is.
duh swami says
I have forgiven many people…and the so called spirit is not in me…
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Well done Richard it only needs a few Catholics here to inform the ignorant, which is the duty of a Catholic.
gravenimage says
Of course there is a huge difference between Islam and Catholicism.
This Pope is a fool, but he is not urging his followers to rape and slaughter unbelievers, as Muslim clerics are.
Wellington says
The best I can say about you, Omar, is that you are an immensely limited human being. I suspect, though, you are even something worse than this. But if “only” the former then still more than stupid enough.
RichardL says
stories about the Pope or about the Church or other Christian groups always get a lot of attention.
I would ask all Christians not to condemn RC or even the this Pope: he is just a man and man is sometimes spectacularly wrong. We Christians and Jews must stand united or fall separately.
I am RC and I have long ago decided that whatever this Pope says about politics is rubbish at best. But when you read what he writes about theology you will be surprised: same quality as Benedict XVI.
Kay says
“We Christians and Jews must stand united or fall separately.”
————
I agree completely. And also, I do wish the Pope would stop giving the media soundbites and would lead the church by proclaiming theology.
Cretius says
This Pope’s ignorance of history and the violent and aggressive nature of Islam is monumental. He should concentrate on his Bible and maintaining the Vatican’s wealth. Leave world affairs to those with some understanding of the facts. His admiration of Islam is suicidal.
Carolyne says
And his wealth is great. In fact, that is one of my main sources of disdain for the RCC. I believe Jesus cautioned against storing up your treasures on earth.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
The pope has no wealth snowflake.
gravenimage says
A “snowflake” is a person who is so faux-sensitive and “distressed” by any mention of something they disagree with that they want to source censored.
You may well disagree with what Carolyne has to say, but this does not make her a “snowflake”.
gravenimage says
the source
Capitalist-Dad says
I think the barbed wire and guards around socialist tyrannies (regardless of their spot on the leftist ideological spectrum) is to keep people in. The legacy of all such regimes is to cause millions of their citizens to want to flee their homeland.
Les says
Settle down people and quit being reckless
“Being afraid or rejoicing beforehand because of something that might happen is, in my view, quite reckless,” the pope said. “We will see. We will see what he does and then we will judge — always on the concrete. Christianity either is concrete or it is not Christianity.”
Pope Francis regarding Trump
gravenimage says
Note what he is saying about populist movements–i.e., those who want to keep out ravening Muslim invaders–in Europe, Les.
Cretius says
This Pope is an ignorant fool. Islamic history is one of a 1,400 aggressive and bloody holy war against non-believers. The present outrages in western democracies are an expression of the violent teachings of Islam. The ignorance of our leaders about Islam will lead us to greater violence in the future. Islam is only checked by military action such as Tours, Spain, Vienna etc.
Ignorant fools like Justin Trudeau are leading their country to ruin by their reckless Muslim immigration policies and economic mismanagement.
Phil Copson says
Neither the Pope nor Justin Trudeau are “ignorant” – they know full well what the consequences will be, they just calculate that the trouble won’t reach their door-step before they shuffle off.
A week spent working as a teacher or a police-officer in one of the enclaves they have helped to create might help their concentration wonderfully.
Carlos Danger says
Not MY pope.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Well he is my pope
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
And so I say good bye to you all it has been a good first day of my leave.
Do not let us Catholics ruin your day.
Champ says
To say he is “Not MY pope” does not include Catholics, on the whole. Not sure why you would think that ..
Anyway, have a nice day 🙂
Michelle says
I have total contempt for all Christian churches and especially the Vatican as I see NONE of them as truly representing the words and actions of Jesus of Nazareth. But this tool “takes the cake” and is living proof of the degree of elitist control of the world. The previous pope was a little too honest and I guess it was his resignation that kept him alive but this tool just keeps finding new lows…very Obama-like.
UNCLE VLADDI says
Trump should ban the clown BenGoglio and his Goo-Goo-Googlio Eyes from the USA!
Benedict says
This pope is evil, see his eyes, when he smiles too the eyes speak differently. Instead of welcoming the new President, this pope talks nonsense.
Stephen says
The pope is your typical worthless liberal hypocrite. He claimed at one point that it is un-Christians to build walls but has no intentions of removing the Vatican’s. (You notice the media doesn’t make it an issue with the pope either.) The catholic church knows a lot about Nazism as well. “Adolph Hitler, son of the Catholic Church, died while defending Christianity. It is therefore understandable that words cannot be found to lament over his death, when so many where found to exalt his life. Over his dead remains stands his victorious moral figure, with the palm of the martyr; God gives Hitler laurels of victory.”
Phil Copson says
Stephen: Your quote – “The catholic church knows a lot about Nazism as well. “Adolph Hitler, son of the Catholic Church, died while defending Christianity. It is therefore understandable that words cannot be found to lament over his death, when so many where found to exalt his life. Over his dead remains stands his victorious moral figure, with the palm of the martyr; God gives Hitler laurels of victory.” ”
The Catholic church actually said that, or is this just something that an ill-wisher attributed to them ?