The death penalty for apostasy is part of Islamic law. It’s based on the Qur’an: “They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.” (Qur’an 4:89)
A hadith depicts Muhammad saying: “Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him” (Bukhari 9.84.57). The death penalty for apostasy is part of Islamic law according to all the schools of Islamic jurisprudence.
This is still the position of all the schools of Islamic jurisprudence, both Sunni and Shi’ite. Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, the most renowned and prominent Muslim cleric in the world, has stated: “The Muslim jurists are unanimous that apostates must be punished, yet they differ as to determining the kind of punishment to be inflicted upon them. The majority of them, including the four main schools of jurisprudence (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi’i, and Hanbali) as well as the other four schools of jurisprudence (the four Shiite schools of Az-Zaidiyyah, Al-Ithna-‘ashriyyah, Al-Ja’fariyyah, and Az-Zaheriyyah) agree that apostates must be executed.”
Qaradawi also once famously said: “If they had gotten rid of the apostasy punishment, Islam wouldn’t exist today.”
“Christian Woman in Eastern Uganda Coerced into Taking Poison,” Morning Star News, January 5, 2017:
NAIROBI, Kenya (Morning Star News) – Muslim relatives of a young woman in eastern Uganda who put her faith in Christ at a Christmas service coerced her into taking poison at a New Year’s celebration, she said.
Sandra Summaya, 24, of Bugayi village in Pallisa District, told Morning Star News that she converted to Christianity at a worship service on Christmas Day.
“I had great peace when the pastor prayed for me to take Jesus as my savior,” she said. “I later shared my testimony with my brother, who outrightly accused me of being an infidel and an outcast from the family and the Muslim community. I felt great pain inside me because of the insults.”
On Sunday (Jan. 1) Summaya’s immediate family and a few other relatives gathered in the predominantly Muslim village in Kamuge County to celebrate the New Year with a meal. At the high point of the gathering, Summaya said, a paternal uncle read to her a Bible verse and suggested it meant God would protect her from harm, including illness from ingesting poison.
“He said, ‘Do you believe that Issa [Jesus] is able to protect your from poison as written in the Bible?’ and I answered ‘Yes,’” she said. “Immediately I was forced to take the poison to confirm my faith in the Bible, at around midnight. I could not deny the Bible, so I took the rat poison.”
Soon she became seriously ill.
“I started having severe stomach pains together with vomiting and cried for help,” she said. “I was taken away from the homestead to a nearby bush. I was tied with a rope to a tree and left to die.”
Her loud cries woke a Christian neighbor who rushed to the site.
“I found Summaya unconscious, and we rushed her to a Kamuge nursing home, where the doctor saved her life,” said the neighbor, whose name is withheld for security reasons.
Summaya remains at the hospital and her condition has stabilized, a nurse told Morning Star News.
“She will still be in the hospital for some few days as we monitor her situation,” said the nurse, who requested anonymity….

efoc says
I feel very sorry for that poor lady. May she be protected for the rest of her days.
Islamic apostasy and blasphemy “laws” illustrate how totalitarianism is defined and works in practice.
How awful it is that all of humanity are subjected to these “laws”. Muslims are not allowed to leave or question their “religion” and non-Muslims are not allowed to question or critique Islam. What a curse sharia law is upon this planet.
Angemon says
Those bastards should have taken the poison instead. There were at least two logically sound reasons to do so: a) to prove her that their faith would shield them from the poison and b) because they were celebrating the New Year, which is haram.
maghan says
What stands out though is the pathetic stupidity of those dumb, black slave-raisin heads for slave-dealer and rapist pedophile, Muhammad Abdullah.
The cruel stupidity of those dumb black slaves for Muhammad and Islam is always amazing.
Kay says
Seems like it’s all about power and destroying beauty,
against the true God who brings freedom and beauty and peace.
Champ says
a) to prove her that their faith would shield them from the poison
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I like that one, Angemon; since allah, aka satan, is the ‘great deceiver’, and he doesn’t care who dies for the cause of evil islam.
DFD says
Angemon
Permit me to point out that there are two flaws in your assessment, namely ‘logic & reason’. Consequently, he could have never reached points a) & b).
Besides, he was probably sure to find solace with his goat 🙂
Tradiguy says
Can any of us be surprised now at the total moral bankruptcy of Islam? The enslavement of Satan over these poor wretches? ‘There but for God go I’ Brought up from babies to hate and despise the truth, sucking it in from their mothers milk! They are blinded by their hate and are in the dark and the Devil doesn’t want them led to the light and therefore pronounces death for ‘apostates’ but Satan is blinded by God in not seeing that a Christian dying for Christ will have life everlasting! That is Gods promise to us- not 72 virgins so you can rut yourself stupid and ever flowing wine so you can be permanently pissed! If that’s not a guise of Satan, I don’t know what is! As Christians we are asked to pray for our enemies- pray for the Muslims that they may see the light.
Kay says
Amen
citycat says
One stayed alive.
That type of faith has been known to work against also voodoo, which is another low vibe cult.
Focus can move mountains, as they say.
Group focus can move more, when 2 or more are gathered.
Just saying.
Phil Copson says
Her life was saved by medical attention, not divine intervention.
Tell us when your focus is about to move a mountain, (and why anyone in their right mind would wish to…) and we’ll all come and watch.
You may not be as dangerous, but you are every bit as stupid and irrational as the Muslims you criticise.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
To make the world a safe place, where the innocent or the vulnerable have protection,there a few things necessary.
1) Confront the leftest ideology in our midst, that refuses to acknowledge the above as despicable hate crimes. Refuse to trade with countries where these perpetrators reside,refuse to have them in your country on holidays or government visits, unless they sign statements condemning, what their brothers do and their place of origin allows.
2) Confront the Islamic religious ideology that spews hate and violence: call it what it is, name it for what it is. The left mass media refuses to look at it, politicians ignore it, as they fear the media will denounce them and may lose prestige:
Islamophobia, racist, homophobic, are a few words from the medias lexicon.
It is true that that there are those political religious, who like the politicians know the power of the press and are willing to keep quite in the carnage, in-order to have a good press profile among the elites.
Things need to Change, Geert Wilders, Milos Zeman, and Victor Orban are the brave European leaders who are speaking about suicidal immigration policies.
They need to be supported by all Christians and their leaders in love, fairness, truth and justice.
Keep up the good work Robert Spencer.
t. says
I liked you comment, Malcolm!
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
God Bless
762x51FMJ says
Well she survived and so Jesus did protect her with the help of another Christian. And so she literally came back from the dead.. They may actually consider this a revelation and so maybe by next year the entire village will convert to Christianity… After all what revelations has Islam offered other than poison..
Arthur says
My thoughts exactly!
Phil Copson says
So anything good that happens is down to Jesus and anything bad is down to a devil, is it ?
I had a pie last night and 90% of it was quite tasty, but unfortunately I left it in the oven a bit too long and the top got burnt.
I guess that the Devil and Jesus were tussling over my chicken-and-mushroom pie, were they ?
You are exactly like a Muslim, sitting on the ground like a baby saying “Insh Allah” / “It’s all God’s Will, so I needn’t lift a finger”.
Try taking responsibility for your own life and those about you, otherwise you will be walking into the extermination camps.
Champ says
Is it any wonder that islam is called a “Death Cult” …yep islam is *wholly* evil!
ibrahim itace muhammed says
mr spencer,my problem with you is that when a muslim commit any wrong you relate it to the position of his religion to show that islam is bad.if it is non-muslim,christian or jew, who does it you never relate it to his religion.the quranic verse in suratul an’am 4:89 has no relation with apostasy.it is talking of military confrontation during jihad war.are you saying at war front one cannot kill or must not strike on the head or neck? even though majority of muslim jurists agreed that apostasy carries death penalty,it is beyond the power of muslim individuals to carryout the death penalty as you said these people from uganda did to their sister.it is the responsiblity of muslim authority to do so if there is any.the authority will have arraign the culprit before a sharia court for trial.if the offence is established,the culprit will be given 3 days to think and come back to islam.if he or she refuses then the death penalty can be carried out.in the absence of muslim govt,all muslim jurists agreed that his or her case shall be left to god to decide on the day of judgement. note apostasy carries death penalty according to mithraist christian bible and the church carried it out.did christians abolish it now or erased those verses prescribing it like their lies on abolishing slavery,which mad devil trump said he will revive to recolonise and enslave black africans?
Champ says
The foolish “ibrahim itace muhammed” wrote:
“mr spencer,my problem with you is that when a muslim commit any wrong you relate it to the position of his religion to show that islam is bad.if it is non-muslim,christian or jew, who does it you never relate it to his religion.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is Jihad Watch: “Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts.”
So if you have a “problem” with Robert Spencer and his important work—then leave, and start your own website entitled: “Christian and Jew Watch.”
And best of luck to you in finding daily news headlines to support your ‘effort’ because you’re gonna need it, fool!
DFD says
ibrahim itace muhammed
You again. Haven’t you got anything better to do? Like stoning your wife or mother. Or honor killing your daughter.
Cecilia Ellis says
Ibrahim itace muhammed wrote:
“mr (sic) spencer (sic),my (sic) problem with you is that when a muslim (sic) commit (sic) any wrong you relate it to the position of his religion to show that islam (sic) is bad.if (sic) it is non-muslim (sic),christian (sic) or jew, (sic) who does it you never relate it to his religion.the (sic)”
Ibrahim, this news article specifically states:
“Muslim relatives of a young woman in eastern Uganda who put her faith in Christ at a Christmas service coerced her into taking poison at a New Year’s celebration . . . He said, ‘Do you believe that Issa [Jesus] is able to protect your from poison as written in the Bible?’ and I answered ‘Yes’ . . . Immediately I was forced to take the poison to confirm my faith in the Bible, at around midnight. I could not deny the Bible, so I took the rat poison . . . I started having severe stomach pains together with vomiting and cried for help . . . I was taken away from the homestead to a nearby bush. I was tied with a rope to a tree and left to die.”
Robert Spencer does not frivolously refer to Quranic verses when a Muslim “commit (sic) any wrong.” Instead, he provides the ideological basis for such actions, when specifically carried out in the name of Islam, as mandated in Islamic canonical texts and upheld by the primary schools of Islamic jurisprudence.
On the other hand, Mr. Spencer does not refer to non-Muslim, Christian or Jewish requirements to kill those who convert because . . . well . . . there are none. Christian theology acknowledges that conversion is accomplished by the Spirit of God, through the bestowal of the grace of God and the response of acceptance — free will — to that inspiration. Additionally, murder is an offense both to God and to those who embrace His love.
To attempt to kill an individual and to tie her to a tree, leaving her behind to die, is egregious. Yet, I notice you have no condemnation for this action, the subject about which the posted article is written. Neither Robert Spencer nor President-Elect Donald Trump were at that New Year’s celebration or at the tree with Summaya, but Jesus was. Strange that you did not recognize His Presence.
gravenimage says
Vile apologist for Muslim savagery ibrahim itace muhammed wrote:
mr (sic) spencer,my (sic) problem with you is that when a muslim (sic) commit any wrong you relate it to the position of his religion to show that islam (sic) is bad.
……………………………..
Why would muhammed consider this bad? He himself has said that he believes Muslims should conquer us and forcibly convert Christians to Islam.
Mr. Spencer associates this with Islam because *Muslims* associate it with Islam. The whole motive for this above crime was Islam–it is not as though it was some sort of robbery gone wrong…
More:
if (sic) it is non-muslim,christian (sic) or jew (sic), who does it you never relate it to his religion.
……………………………..
What Jews, Christians, or other non-Muslims are forcing apostates to take poison? Of course, they are not.
More:
the (sic) quranic (sic) verse in suratul an’am 4:89 has no relation with apostasy.it (sic) is talking of military confrontation during jihad war.are (sic) you saying at war front one cannot kill or must not strike on the head or neck?
……………………………..
Is muhammed pretending that leaving Islam for another faith is not finding allies among those who are non-Muslim? Of course it is–and that gives Muslims as they see it the right to murder apostates.
Also–Islam is *always* in a state of Jihad against all non-Muslims–hence the characterization of non-Muslim lands as Dar-al-Harb, or the “house of war”. Hence, there is *never* a time when Muslims may be friendly with the “filthy Infidels”.
More:
even (sic) though majority of muslim (sic) jurists agreed that apostasy carries death penalty,it is beyond the power of muslim individuals to carryout the death penalty as you said these people from uganda (sic) did to their sister.it (sic) is the responsiblity of muslim authority (sic) to do so if there is any.the (sic) authority will have arraign the culprit before a sharia court for trial.
……………………………..
Firstly, Robert Spencer did not make this claim–it was reported by the Morning Star News. muhammed constantly attempts to make people think that these are stories that Jihad Watch has made up–but they all come from respected third-party news sources.
Then note: muhammed is claiming that the state must carry out this persecution. But Uganda is *not* a Muslim state, and it does not have Shari’ah law.
Wherever Muslims know the state will not enforce Shari’ah barbarism, they are allowed under Islam to enforce it themselves–as muhammed well knows.
More:
if (sic) the offence is established,the culprit will be given 3 days to think and come back to islam.if (sic) he or she refuses then the death penalty can be carried out.
……………………………..
And so the barbaric muhammed affirms that Muslim authorities are to murder apostates–he would have been fine with the poor woman in the story above being judicially murdered. *Ugh*.
More:
in (sic) the absence of muslim (sic) govt,all (sic) muslim (sic) jurists agreed that his or her case shall be left to god to decide on the day of judgement.
……………………………..
This is not true. None of the Hadith or Sira indicate that only Muslim authorities are allowed to carry out such murders.
And if muhammed *really* believed this, in any case, why wouldn’t he take it up with his homicidal coreligionists, rather than the good Infidels here at Jihad Watch?
More:
note (sic) apostasy carries death penalty according to mithraist (sic) christian (sic) bible (sic) and the church carried it out.did (sic) christians (sic) abolish it now or erased those verses prescribing it like their lies on abolishing slavery,which (sic) mad devil trump (sic) said he will revive (sic) to recolonise and enslave black africans (sic)?
……………………………..
Where to start with this meretricious load of bs?
Firstly, there is nothing in the Bible saying that Christians who leave their faith are to be murdered–churches that practiced this–it has happened historically–were following neither the Bible nor the edicts of Jesus Christ–they were, in fact, going *against* the values of Christianity, and there is no Christian denomination that has practiced such un-Christian atrocities for hundreds of years.
Then, muhammed’s claims that the Bible demands that Jews and Christians enslave people and that abolition of slavery hence goes against the Bible is absolutely false. There are no such verses in the Bible.
And the oblique reference to “erased those verses prescribing it” implies that the Bible once contained demands for slavery and the murder of apostates, but that Jews or Christians “corrupted” the Bible and changed it.
This should not surprise–Muslims regularly claim that Jews and Christians have changed the Torah and the Gospels, and that originally they were just as savage as the baleful Qur’an.
But this is not true–there are historical Bibles dating back hundreds of years–millenia, for the Torah–and there are no such verses demanding that Jews or Christians enslave people or murder apostates.
Finally, the last: the claim that Donald Trump has vowed to revive slavery is just *grotesquely false*. This is sickening calumny towards Mr. Trump. Moreover, of course, it would not be possible–this is *illegal* in civilized nations like the United States.
muhammed appears to have confused us with Islam, which is indeed reviving the horror of slavery. In fact, muhammed believes that Muslims have every right to enslave Infidels.
DFD says
Cecilia & Graven (in alphabetic order)
Girls, you are wasting good fingertips on that creep.
gravenimage says
DFD, for myself, I rebut this Muslim troll’s bs not because I expect such a savage to change his mind (such as it is), but for the benefit of any interested readers here.
I believe this is true of Cecilia and Champ and others here, as well.
ibrahim itace muhammed’s viciousness is *not pleasant*, but it is *very* revealing as to the state of the Muslim mindset.
Cecilia Ellis says
DFD, as does Graven and Champ, I reply to “ibrahim itace muhammed” primarily for the benefit of JW readers. I have no expectation that “Ibrahim” will accept any evidentiary response that refutes his statements. Because I have neither the time nor the energy to respond to his numerous, cut-and-paste, frequently obscene, spam comments, I reply to the one which pegs my enough-is-enough meter to its limit.
Quite frankly, I am tired of his relentless attacks — baseless and errant as they are — directed toward Robert Spencer, Hugh Fitzgerald, Raymond Ibrahim, Christine Williams, Gravenimage, Champ, other JW commenters, Jews and Christians.
I am tired of his distinct refusal to condemn or acknowledge atrocities committed by Muslims who carry out those savage acts as mandated or in accordance with Islamic canonical texts and major Islamic schools of jurisprudence.
I am tired of his defending the indefensible.
Champ says
DFD, yes count me among the “Girls” …BOY!
++++++++++++++++++
And I completely agree with both Graven & Cecilia on the points they’ve made. Bravo, Ladies! 🙂
t. says
ibrahim, I had some measure of respect for your courage and what I thought to be honesty on your part, by trying to share with us your opinions on news about your religion of peace, love and mercy!
Meanwhile I must admit that you’re increasingly getting on my nerves.
“when a muslim commit any wrong you relate it to the position of his religion to show that islam is bad.”
What the hell you’re talking about? Look at the beginning of this article, you will see the solid basis in Islam on which all killings of converts from Islam by other Muslims are based. In addition there are literally thousands upon thousands of stories, such as this one, over the years and from all over Islamic countries, wherever they are.
I say to you- either you grow up and face the truth and reality or go and post your comments on another site which is delirium or mental illness friendly!
maghan says
What do Stone Age desert primitives know about “law”? LOL. The savage Arabs lived in an area of impressive civilizations–so something rubbed off on them. But their savagery and degeneracy is innate so they are naturally bereft of human sympathy and intelligence. That’s how one explains Muhammad’s rampaging runs reincarnated now as ISIS.
Always sad to witness the mental degeneracy of an Arab Muslim showing off his finger antics on a keyboard.
gravenimage says
Uganda: Muslim relatives force woman to take poison for converting to Christianity
…………………..
This *poor woman*. I am so glad her neighbor was able to save her.
She should not go back to her murderous “family”.
ibrahim itace muhammed says
cecilia ellis,you are complaining that you have failed to convince me to accept your one sided views against islam, full of blackmails and lies against islam,which you said causes you nervous shock.i think my participation in this forum would motivate you to dig more on issues being discussed so to add quality to the in depth analysis at this forum(jw).i expect the editor to like it this way,rather than one sided and biased stuffs to be taken hook,line and sinker. note,if any commentator behave rudely i will respond in the same manner.no one has monopoly of rudeness.when i said gravenimage is ignorant and prostitutes, i did it when she turned issue to mere insults and condemnation,rather than intellectual analysis.she said she just hate islam and muslims.why?let her analysis reach that conclusion not bare refutation.when i said christianity was evolved from paganism of mithraism not taught by jesus, i gave reference and reasons.when i said jews are associated with evils and that they are not superior to other human races by birth, i gave reasons.i expect you to do the same against islam.you just refer and pick some verses from quran and hadith,interprete them without knowledge and conclude that islam is all about killing unbelievers,apostates and raping slave captive,which gravenimage said are not contained in the bible.it is a lie.i refer her to samuel 15:3 on genocide or mass killing to erase a paricular race and wars of crusade.on killing apostates see chronicles 15:13 and peter 2:20-22. on slavery see levisticus 25:44-46,ephesians 6:5 , timothy 6:1-2 and luke 12:47-48.i said the church practiced all these prescriptions.continue with your deceptions to defend undefendable.
t. says
ibrahim, did you read my above comment to you?
Cecilia Ellis says
Ibrahim itace muhammed wrote:
“cecilia (sic) ellis, (sic) you are complaining that you have failed to convince me to accept your one sided (sic) views against islam, (sic) full of blackmails and lies against islam,which (sic) you said causes you nervous shock.i (sic)”
Ibrahim, please understand the following:
1. I am not complaining … merely stating a fact.
2. I have never lied about Islam … indeed, not once have I declared Islam to be a “religion of peace”.
3. I did not say that I was experiencing “nervous shock”. Now that, Ibrahim, would be a lie.
“I (sic) think my participation in this forum would motivate you to dig more on issues being discussed so to add quality to the in depth (sic) analysis at this forum(jw).i (sic) expect the editor to like it this way,rather than one sided (sic) and biased stuffs (sic) to be taken hook,line (sic) and sinker.”
Ibrahim, your participation as a commenter on this website does not motivate me to “dig more on issues being discussed,” as your statements routinely are not relevant to the posted article. Rather, you avoid condemnation of the reported atrocity, as demonstrated … well … by your comments to this article.
Additionally, Gravenimage, as well as others, has refuted your claims repeatedly with sound, incontrovertible evidence drawn specifically from Islamic canonical texts and the most-revered recorders of the Hadith. In your case, that scholarly response appears to be an exercise in futility, albeit educational for other JW readers.
gravenimage says
+1
gravenimage says
More from appalling Muslim supremacist ibrahim itace muhammed:
cecilia (sic) ellis,you (sic) are complaining that you have failed to convince me to accept your one sided views against islam, (sic) full of blackmails and lies against islam,which(sic) you said causes you nervous shock.
…………………………………………….
What meretricious claptrap. As Cecilia Ellis notes, she never expected to be able to talk sense to an apologist for evil, and she never said such an obvious outcome caused her “nervous shock”. It is quite notable that a Mohammedan would trot out such obvious falsehoods.
And what has Ms. Ellis said that are “lies” about Islam? Again, muhammed never says. He also does not say how having a negative opinion of the horrors of Islam is “blackmail”.
More:
i (sic) think my participation in this forum would motivate you to dig more on issues being discussed so to add quality to the in depth analysis at this forum(jw).i (sic) expect the editor to like it this way,rather (sic) than one sided and biased stuffs to be taken hook,line (sic) and sinker.
…………………………………………….
muhammed has not been banned–he has been free to spew his vicious untruths here. What is he complaining about? But no; he has contributed nothing to debate here at Jihad Watch–save, as I have noted, in revealing the barbaric Muslim mindset.
More:
note,if (sic) any commentator behave rudely i (sic) will respond in the same manner.no (sic) one has monopoly of rudeness.when (sic) i (sic) said gravenimage is ignorant and prostitutes (sic), i (sic) did it when she turned issue to mere insults and condemnation,rather (sic) than intellectual analysis.she (sic) said she just hate islam (sic) and muslims.why?let (sic) her analysis reach that conclusion not bare refutation.
…………………………………………….
I have said that ibrahim itace muhammed is an apologist for Islamic savagery, which he is–he has been just on this thread–this is entirely different from calling someone a “prostitute”, or making bizarre claims about their having been born in a “baby factory”. muhammed is profoundly reality-challenged, which should surprise no one.
And I have never once said I hate all Muslims–just the ones who take their foul creed seriously, like the family who tried to poison this poor woman to death in the story above.
More:
when (sic) i (sic) said christianity was evolved from paganism of mithraism (sic) not taught by jesus (sic), i (sic) gave reference and reasons.
…………………………………………….
Actually, no–he never did. I have noted that Christianity’s only link to Mithraism was in early Roman Christian artists using some of the symbols of Mithraism in their images–a topic I wrote a paper on at Berkeley. There is absolutely no influence of Mithraism in Christianity in any religious or philosophical sense.
And he has also made the bizarre claim that the Torah is “Mithraism”–even though the texts of the Torah much predate Mithraism. I’m sure someone told muhammed at some point that the Bible is pagan Mithraism, and like most reason-challenged Muhammedans, he is unable to grasp that this makes no sense.
And his only references to “Jesus” have been to the Muslim “prophet Isa”–which has nothing to do with the Jesus of the Gospels at all.
More:
when (sic) i (sic) said jews (sic) are associated with evils and that they are not superior to other human races by birth, i (sic) gave reasons.
…………………………………………….
Well, that’s just hilarious. His only “reasons” for considering Jews evil are the ejaculations of Islam itself. The idea that this is some sort of reasoned analysis is just ludicrous.
More:
i (sic) expect you to do the same against islam.you (sic) just refer and pick some verses from quran (sic) and hadith,interprete (sic) them without knowledge and conclude that islam (sic) is all about killing unbelievers,apostates (sic) and raping slave captive,
…………………………………………….
muhammed cannot, of course, claim that such things are *not* in the Qur’an and Hadith–moreover, he himself has affirmed that Infidel women are to be taken captive and used as sex slaves, and that Islam should conquer the West and force Christians to convert to Islam.
His demurral on this thread is particularly perverse, where his coreligionists are trying to murder an apostate on the tenets of Islam.
More:
which (sic) gravenimage said are not contained in the bible.it (sic) is a lie.i (sic) refer her to samuel (sic) 15:3 on genocide or mass killing to erase a paricular (sic) race and wars of crusade.
…………………………………………….
Of course, I never said that Samuel 15:3 is not in the Bible–just that Jews and Christians do not refer to this verse and commit violence. Would that we could say the same of Muslims and the texts of Islam.
More:
on (sic) killing apostates see chronicles (sic) 15:13 and peter 2:20-22. on slavery see levisticus (sic) 25:44-46,ephesians (sic) 6:5 , (sic) timothy 6:1-2 and luke 12:47-48.i (sic) said the church practiced all these prescriptions.continue (sic) with your deceptions to defend undefendable (sic).
…………………………………………….
Of course, I have never once defended slavery or killing apostates. muhammed has, in fact, *castigated* Christians and Jews for not murdering apostates and for having abolished slavery, which he claims is mandated in the Bible. Of course, it is not–it is mentioned, not prescribed.
And how does muhammed consider slavery and the murder of apostates “undefendable”? He is, in fact, defending the latter right on this thread, and has defended enslaving us Infidels many times, as well.
ibrahim itace muhammed says
t, i read it,but it has not raised substantial issue for critical analysis.the issue is that:is the quran more violent than the bible.it is all agreed that going by contents of the bible it is more violent or calling for violence than the quran,because the bible commands for genocide or mass killings,both women and children;and the church carried out genocide or mass killings during crusade wars and during inquistes.the history confirmed it.jihad war,on the other hand, is resorted to defend muslim community and allow muslims practice their religion everywhere in the world without hindrance.but some misguided elements among muslim, due to frustration for the invasion of muslim world and oppressive policies by christian west,misapplied jihad to include mass killings as it is the case in the bible samuel 15:3.
t. says
ibrahim, who invaded who first?
What was the religion of present day Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Palestine and Lebanon, before Muslim forces invaded them in the 7th century? What was the religion of north Africa before Muslim forces invaded it in the 8th century? What was that of Persia before the slaughtering of hundreds of thousands of Persians by conquering Islamic forces? What was that of modern day Turkey, several other parts in southern Europe and the Balkans? What was that of Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Indonesia Malaysia?
And what about the millions of Egyptians Copts who were killed during the Islamic “Futuhat”? Recent discoveries of burial sites in Egypt found the remains of an estimated number of four million Egyptians which were dated to be from exactly the same time of “Futuhat, many with visible marks of violent injuries.
ibrahim, first you have to know that you’re pretty much emotionally attached to and your personal identity is fused with Islam’s identity, that’s why it will be very hard for you to see the reality of things as they are truly are, and you brain will only search for bits and pieces here and there to confirm the hard and almost unshakable faith you have, not only in Islam but in anything else in which you have such a strong faith.
This is understandable, as when any human being is inside anything can’t easily see how silly or not logical certain things are; only when one gets outsidie of it that one would be able to more clearly see things as what they’re truly are. First you have to be aware of and conscious to that.
Second, try to come from a neutral place and check all the facts related to this subject- Islam’s history, how it was spread, contemporary history of Muslim countries, the Quran, hadiths and sunnah. Gradually and bit by bit, if you’re truly genuine and honest in your search for the truth, you will start to see things more as what they are rather what they ought to be.
gravenimage says
And more again from ibrahim itace muhammed:
t, i (sic) read it,but (sic) it has not raised substantial issue for critical analysis.
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In other words, of course muhammed is fine with Muslims conquering, oppressing, and murdering us. muhammed himself has said that Muslims should conquer the West and force Christians to convert to Islam.
More:
the (sic) issue is that:is (sic) the quran (sic) more violent than the bible.it (sic) is all agreed that going by contents of the bible it is more violent or calling for violence than the quran,because (sic) the bible commands for genocide or mass killings,both (sic) women and children;and (sic) the church carried out genocide or mass killings during crusade wars and during inquistes.the (sic) history confirmed it.
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Actually, muhammed has castigated Christians for *not* taking the Bible to mean that we should enslave and mass-slaughter people–which he considers weak and contrary to the diktats of his appalling ‘god”.
More:
jihad (sic) war,on (sic) the other hand, is resorted to defend muslim (sic) community and allow muslims (sic) practice their religion everywhere in the world without hindrance.
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So–Muslims had to invade and conquer all of the Mahgreb, the Levant, the Middle East, Iraq, Persia, and India to “defend” themselves?
This would strain credulity save for the last: “everywhere in the world”. Muslims do not feel they are able to practice their vicious creed freely unless they are able to conquer and oppress unbelievers everywhere in the world.
*This* is what they consider “defensive”. What a grotesque travesty.
More:
but (sic) some misguided elements among muslim (sic), due to frustration for the invasion of muslim (sic) world and oppressive policies by christian (sic) west,misapplied (sic) jihad to include mass killings as it is the case in the bible (sic) samuel (sic) 15:3.
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What is the reason-challenged muhammed claiming here?
If he talking about Jihad terror groups like ISIS and Boko Haram, what happened to his claim that they are all secretly “Zionist”? Maybe even he realized that this was ridiculous and was not flying here.
Now he is trying out the idea that they are just so frustrated by the West that they are forced to mass-murder people. Hey, I get frustrated sometimes, myself–I don’t feel the urge to go out and butcher people. But hey–I’m not Muslim.
muhammed’s claim that Muslims are slaughtering people on the basis of Samuel 15:3 is ridiculous–Muslims don’t cite the Bible, which they believe was “corrupted” by Infidels–instead, they are mass-murdering people on the basis of the Qur’an and the Hadiths and the model of the violent “Prophet”.
Fred says
Ibrahim, nobody believes your lies. Go somewhere else.
ibrahim itace muhammed says
joan c,you are saying when your god jesus came he took away the evil parts of the bible like genocide,slavery, death penalty for apostasy etc.is that right?if you care to read carefully my comment above i made reference to new testament like peter, ephesians,lukes etc;all about slavery, death penalty for apostasy.in another book in the new testament jesus said he did not come for peace,but with sword as means of fighting.it means jesus came to fight religious war except that he could not get an opportunity to do so being under foreign domination-the roman empire as you know.again, assuming , not conceding,that jesus came to take evil part of the bible(old testament)is that evil part not still contained in a cover book you call the holy bible?you know you believe that the bible is error-free and words of god.are you saying two gods authored the bible,one god with evil part and another god with good part?or are you saying it was authored by one god,one part of his words are evil and the other part of his words are good?note, you believe that jesus was god and as such he is the author of both new and old testaments.there is no half way about it
gravenimage says
And yet more from ibrahim itace muhammed:
joan (sic) c (sic),you (sic) are saying when your god jesus (sic) came he took away the evil parts of the bible like genocide,slavery, (sic) death penalty for apostasy etc.is (sic) that right?if (sic) you care to read carefully my comment above i (sic) made reference to new testament like peter (sic), ephesians,lukes (sic) etc;all about slavery, death penalty for apostasy.
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Actually, there is no reference to death for apostasy in the New Testament–why is muhammed unable to keep his bs straight? The Islamic rejection of reason probably does not help.
And his claim–which he has made explicit elsewhere–that the Bible *demands* that Jews and Christians enslave people and that we are being “weak” and rejecting God’s diktats by not doing so is just absurd. The Bible acknowledges that slavery existed–it does not demand that Jews and Christians practice it.
More:
in (sic) another book in the new testament jesus (sic) said he did not come for peace,but (sic) with sword as means of fighting.it (sic) means jesus (sic) came to fight religious war except that he could not get an opportunity to do so being under foreign domination-the roman empire as you know.
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Actually, this passage has never been interpreted in this manner. Instead, it meant that Christians could not assume that following Chirst would be without difficulty for them.
Jesus himself was never violent–pretending that this was because he was cowed by the existence of the Roman Empire is absurd. If this was a tenet of Christianity, Jesus would have practiced it.
More:
again (sic), assuming (sic), not conceding,that (sic) jesus (sic) came to take evil part of the bible(old (sic) testament)is (sic) that evil part not still contained in a cover book you call the holy bible?you (sic) know you believe that the bible (sic) is error-free and words of god.are (sic) you saying two gods authored the bible,one (sic) god with evil part and another god with good part?or (sic) are you saying it was authored by one god,one (sic) part of his words are evil and the other part of his words are good?note, (sic) you believe that jesus (sic) was god (sic) and as such he is the author of both new and old testaments.there is no half way about it
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Well, now muhammed is just babbling. Actually, most Christians see the Bible as having been written by men–good men, but still men–and not by the deity. Why does muhammed continue to confuse the Bible with the foul Qur’an? Likely because he has no other frame of reference.
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