In keeping with ongoing revelations of just how immoral some Muslims view Christianity—to one cleric, Christian church worship is worse than murder and bloodshed—here is another Muslim cleric who appeared on an Arabic language television program claiming that the Christian God “loves”—and thus demands that his followers love—immoral behavior. This is precisely why, argued the sheikh, that Europe is so sexually liberal.
After the more sane-looking host pointed out that in Christianity, fornication and adultery are sins, and that secular Europe’s profligate attitude toward sex is not reflective of Christian teachings, the sheikh loudly protested:
No, fornication and adultery are not forbidden in Christianity. You see, God is love for them. This is one of their false teachings. The foundation for Christianity is that God is love. So what does “God is love” mean? It means that God loves everything. And why does God love everything? Because God is the source of everything. This means God is the creator of fornication and adultery. So who makes you commit fornication and adultery? God. Thus “God is love” means that God loves everything he created, and therefore we are obligated to love it too…. God is the one who created fornication and adultery; he is the one who created alcohol—so who are we to hate things that God created? God is love and so we are to love everything he created.
This sort of thinking—connecting Christian beliefs with immoral behavior—is not new for Muslims. It goes all the way back to Islam’s first encounter with Christianity, in the guise of the Byzantine empire, which withstood Islam’s onslaughts for centuries, till its demise in 1453.
According to Nadia Maria El Cheikh, author of Byzantium Viewed by the Arabs, “Byzantine women are strongly associated with sexual immorality.” In Islam’s oldest writings, European Orthodox Christian women are portrayed as the “most shameless women in the whole world,” always “prone to adultery,” which “is commonplace in the cities and markets of Byzantium.” Apparently the greatest hussies were “the nuns from the convents [who] went out to the fortresses to offer themselves to monks.” But as Cheikh concludes:
[T]he image that they [Muslims] create in describing these women is anything but beautiful. Their depictions are, occasionally, excessive, virtually caricatures, overwhelmingly negative…. In fact, in Byzantium, women were expected to be retiring, shy, modest, and devoted to their families and religious observances…. [T]he behavior of most women in Byzantium was a far cry from the depictions that appear in Arabic sources.
Several centuries later, in a written excerpt that goes to great (if not pornographic) lengths, Persian court scholar ‘Imad ad-Din (d.1201) portrayed Frankish Catholic women as “all licentious harlots, foul-fleshed and sinful.” “They dedicated as a holy offering what they kept between their thighs” and “maintained that they could make themselves acceptable to God by no better sacrifice than this.” He had particular contempt for one young woman who “walked proudly with the cross on her breast,” since this proved for the learned Muslim that she “longed to lose her robe and her honor.”
And, just as the earliest Muslims (falsely) portrayed sexual profligacy as a hallmark of Christian piety in Byzantium, so the Persian wrote, “Now among the Franks a woman who gives herself to a celibate man [monk] commits no sin, and her justification is even greater in the case of a priest, if chaste men in dire need find relief in enjoying her.”
Such is Islam’s centuries-old calumny against Christianity, because the latter teaches that “God is Love” (1 John 4:8). Of course, none of this should be surprising; for the Bible also teaches that there will always be those who “call evil good and good evil” (Isaiah 5:20).
Frank Anderson says
Praise for the writer of the article. What is described is a prefect example of the 1400 years of lying that is essential to Islam. There is no lie that will not be told in the quest to conquer us. Stop wasting time trying to get the truth told by liars. They have practiced all this time and don’t care what real people think. Only collaborators buy their ______. “There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.” “Those who cannot remember the lessons of the past are condemned to repeat them.” “Deliberate ignorance constitutes knowledge of the truth.” “You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.” “But first it will make you miserable.”
Kay says
“There is no lie that will not be told in the quest to conquer us. Stop wasting time trying to get the truth told by liars.”
———————
True.
“Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.”
john spielman says
that’s because allah of the Qur’an and hadiths IS Satan. it ‘s funny that a sheik would say that the God of the Bible is sexually immoral since Allah’s paradise is DRUNKEN BROTHEL!
bernie says
“Allah’s Paradise is a drunken brothel.”
It’s not just an al fresco bordello, it’s also a NAMBLA member’s Heaven as well.
gravenimage says
And it isn’t just their vile “paradise”, either. Muslims can have up to four wives–including little girls–and as many “possessions of the right hand”, i.e., sex slaves as they want, as well as as many Infidel women as they can rape during Jihad, and still be considered “chaste”. *Ugh*.
Peggy says
They are so stupid they can’t even see this huge contradiction.
Erl Roe says
day after day week after week all you ever see or hear about is the total abominable stream of lies and violence flowing out of Islam with their appoligists doing their bare faced lies trying to appease them with their political correctness that reeks with stupidity and self destruction .Islam should be outlawed as it can not be reformed to the mold of the liberial minded emprisoned adherants because of the threat of death hangs over them if they are caught out transgressing. If not death beatings and for women honor killings
boakai ngomb says
dingleberries. these hang around when a person digests a regular diet of koran, sunna, SHARIA and totally subjugates themselves to the allah god of Islam (unknowable; the best of al deceivers)
this wouldbe teacher knows not the LOVE shown by Holy Trinity (Father, Son, Holy Spirit), who sought to give salvation to any and all.
his slate needs to be wiped and cleansed, otherwise instead of LOVE he will come to know WRATH of Holy Trinity who promises to remove His presence from the unbeliever and rebellious
bernie says
And a lot (if not most) of the Islamists who thus calumnate Christians andJews, think it’s just fine and dandy (even holy) to take non-Muslim women and girls as sex slaves, anally rape young boys, practice FGM and so callef honor killings, kill people in terrorist attacks, sell narcotics to fund jihad, etc.
Inconceivable! says
Maybe you should debate this Muslim Cleric on Firing Line, etc. I would really love to see him try to respond!
TH says
All muslims who have presented themselves for debates with Robert Spencer, David Wood and others have been thrashed and shown that all they can do is argue on the basis of logical fallacies, such as ad hominem, or shoot the messenger or the red herring fallacy. Islam is an enemy of rationality and logic, and thus of humanity.
gravenimage says
Very true, TH–Islam disdains reason, and no pious Muslim really knows how to debate. And it is not just the rejection of reason, but also the embrace of violence–Muslims don’t believe they should *have to* make rational arguments, but instead just threaten bodily harm if their victims don’t submit.
gravenimage says
All true, Bernie.
JawsV says
These people (Muslims) are insane.
Frank Anderson says
Please remember that if they are insane they cannot be held responsible for their actions. I ask for a better and more appropriate choice of words that makes clear that they should be held fully responsible for their actions in response to 1400 years of indoctrination and examples. Just like elections, words have consequences. Please think about it.
JawsV says
I meant figuratively, not literally.
Frank Anderson says
Many who dismiss actions today as insane fail to connect that word with lack of responsibility. Please consider those who carried out, by recent standards that gave rise to the release of hundreds of drug lords who triggered thousands of crimes and no telling how many deaths, the orders of “non-violent offenders” who directed mass killing-Hitler, about 20,000,000, Stalin, about 50,000,000, Dear Leader Chairman Mao, about 100,000,000, and standard, perfect, complete and unchangeable Islam, over 300,000,000 and rising over 1400 years. Are those who inspire, command or direct any less responsible than those who do the killing? Are the “leaders” or the actual killers insane? I can think of a lot of words to describe both; but insane is not one of them, I believe it is important to be thoughtful in giving the bad guys any free ticket out of responsibility for their crimes.
Our choice of words constantly repeated without introspection reinforces the idea in those who will not THINK of the consequences of the term. Lack of clarity in our language, especially poor choices of words, can very easily empower the indecisive people who just sit and wait because they are too lazy or afraid to face the present reality of what is being taught and practiced. I suggest the same thing was happening in pre-WWII Germany, when about half of Germany’s Jews did not listen to the words spoken or recognize the violence that took place all of which demonstrated to any aware person that Jews were in danger. History is being repeated. “Those who cannot remember the lessons of the past are condemned to repeat them.” Jorge Santayana, Essay on The Life of Reason (1905). Either we can sit around cursing the darkness or we can light candles to help bring light. Which is better?
somehistory says
There are two *insane* definitions: one is legal which means at the time of the action taken, the person did not know right from wrong. The other is a medical definition and according to the medical definition, they can still be held accountable for their actions because, even though they have a mental disease, they still know right from wrong.
They are just evil, nasty, and vile as their father, satan the devil.
JawsV says
That’s enough, Frank. Lecture someone else.
Frank Anderson says
Apology offered. I hope others may see some benefit from the dissertation.
fudge says
These are the beast the antichrist people, not even the saints can stop them good luck and Jesus keep you safe.
sami shenouda says
when the muslim kill himself for Allah ,he will be enter into a paradise where river of wine
and women which they will be virgin again and again every night and young boys.
That is the Quran and Haddis saying and no muslim can deny that.
gravenimage says
And it is not so much that these Muslims are killing themselves, but that they are murdering innocent people.
no_one says
He is afraid to see the truth about Christianity, because he may find the real God. There people really live in 7th century Arabia which can not compare to 7th century Byzantium at all. Their cult is pre-Christian. I am not sure if it is devil made or mad man made. But Allah is satan.
Badbob says
It is agreed then Christians and Jews do not have the same God as Muslims
frederick King says
So the christian god created adultery and such but mohammad’s god didn’t create any of this stuff ? What about the virgins and young boys for mohammad’s martyrs ? I guess that doesn’t count, or raping non muslim women ? No wonder the tribesmen like islam. Plus you die if you leave. Perfect religion.
Eigil says
W’how there, doesn’t that mean by proxy that the god of Islam loves child molestation, beheadings and war? Let me add suppression of natural impulses and domestic supremacy.
Kepha says
I agree with you wholeheartedly, Eigil, but you also left out the thing that is prima facie in the cleric’s rant: the Muslim god also approves of bearing false witness against one’s neighbor (violating Big Number Nine which God gave to Moses and all Israel on Sinai).
You can even see this false witness against Christians in the Qur’an itself, where we are accused of having a Trinity of God, Jesus, and Mary as separate gods, rather than the Three Persons of the Father, Son (Word), and Spirit in one Divine Substance.
Further, it is the false witness against God and neighbor that lies behind Islam’s violence.
gravenimage says
All true, Kepha. And we see this in “Blasphemy” charges, where Muslims often make up accusations out of whole cloth–like saying a Christian neighbor burnt a Qur’an–because they covet their house, their business, or–God help us–their daughter.
somehistory says
This guy is a total creep and is lying through his nasty teeth.
Angemon says
This slander is no different, in nature, than the slander that Trump is a fascist, a Nazi, that he’s going to take away the rights of minorities, etc. – you dehumanize your enemy, ascribe him all manner of hateful behaviour and thus treatment that would normaly be considered abhorrent becomes justified.
mortimer says
Name-calling or ‘ad hominems’ are fallacies of illogic. Muslims and the Left use name-calling to short-circuit logic and the sense of justice. Muslims and the Left are jointly operating a kangaroo court: Step 1) call names 2) avoid defining the name or demonstrating how it applies 3) condemn the person called the name (it is actually slander) 4) pass sentence on the slandered person 5) proceed to create a gang to punish the person.
Once the name-calling takes place, the slandered party never gets a day in court. The mob carries out the sentence both in Islam and in California.
Kepha says
Ain’t that the truth!
mortimer says
Islamic ‘facts’ upon examination turn out to be ‘opinions’ of sheikhs based upon the ‘opinions’ of previous shekhs. This is the essence of Sharia law: circular reasoning. Once Muslims surrender their minds to this subjective, circular world, they close the doors and windows so that facts cannot enter. Anyone who attempts to bring verifiable facts and unitary logic in to the discussion is called a ‘hater’, because ad hominems are the only defense Islam has against facts and logic.
‘Ad hominems’ are NOT an argument … though that is the only defense most Muslims attempt to use. ‘Ad hominems’ are a tacit admission that the Muslims have no intellectual argument to defend the lacking historicity of Islam’s foundation or the opportunistic ethics or the myriad, illogical self-contradictions that nullify Islam and make it intellectually indefensible.
mortimer says
This mullah is actually calling Muslim males to rape Western women by saying ‘THEY HAVE IT COMING TO THEM…THEY WANT IT.’
There can be nothing more despicable than this vicious promoter of rape.
gravenimage says
That’s *exactly* what this is, Mortimer–and they can despise their victims, while they are at it.
Guest says
He doesn’t know a damn thing what he’s talking about
“Thou shalt not commit adultery.”
Adultery and being an alcoholic are sins in the bible. God is indeed love, he does love us that’s why he made some things sins he doesn’t want us to destroy ourselves.
Ouroboros says
Wait wait wait… so in the Quran and Hadiths, Muslims (particularly martyrs) who end up in Jannah are rewarded by Allah with 72 heavenly whores along with a bevy of young adolescent boys to satisfy their “needs”, and there are rivers flowing with endless wine/booze that will give them pleasure but never cause them to be intoxicated to the point of drunken stupor.
And somehow, it’s supposedly Yahweh/Jehovah that loves sex and booze…
..Right…
Garegin says
Wow. As the saying goes you are entitled to opinions, not facts. There are multiple verses that say that God hates sin, or that God is not the author of sin.
He did however design most of creation to be sexual, including humans. Islam is in agreement with all this, so the imam is putting himself in a contradictory position.
Ric says
This from one vilifying Christianity while belonging to a bloodletting cult. cult, for which, homosexuals are murdered, Infidels, those diverse of Islam, are murdered and Jews are deemed monkeys and other perverse epithets. Meanwhile, those of this cult, males, treat women as third class citizens and as said in the Qur’an are in servitude to their male masters or overlords.
Booze and sex, the bombers of 9/11 were in a strip club having a few jars the night before the mass-murder of innocents. Hypocrisy, I debated about replying, after all, Islam is a synonym of intolerance, bloodletting, and so-forth. They, indeed, in my opinion, have much in common with the leftist-progressives than a religion such as Judaism or Christianity.
Singh the Sikh says
Prophet Muhammad sure loved sex. No female was safe from his evil, wandering eye, not even his own son’s wife, let alone six-year-old Ayesha.
Muhammad even got a stiff hard-on for a widow whose husband was just slayed in a battle. He forced her into a sham marriage on the threat of death, than proceeded to rape her. Her dead husband’s body would not even have properly turned cold.
Muthafucker Mohammed was a sex maniac, rapist, and child molester, that’s why these offences come naturally to Muslim men, who carry out this proud tradition worldwide. Their leader set a really fine example. The Rotherham rapists/ paedophiles were only following their leader and prophet Mohammed.
The prophet of Islam was a sexual deviant – a serial rapist and child sex molester.
D, Newcombe says
I grew-up in suburban Washington, D.C., and lived there from 1963-1983, and returned there after law school from 1986-2001. I was thus exposed to many Muslims,, In two groups. The first group, was Iranians who settled in the area after the 1979 Iranian Revolution, but also a fair number of Students who attended area Universities. The Iranians who were not student, most often fled the Islamic Revolution under fear of imprisonment and settled and within a decade had adjusted to Americas and its customs. The younger Iranians however seemed more welcoming of the Iranian Revolution, and most young people were Shiite and downright supporters of the Ayatollah Khomeini, stayed in America because of the lenient enforcement of immigration law in the years immediately after the Iranian Revolution. The Iranians, aka the Persians, did not mix with their mostly Saudi and Kuwaiti brethren. Most Saudis and Kuwaitis were from middle-class and upper-class families and attended one of the numerous universities in the area that welcomed their money. They were socially naïve and socially awkward around American woman loved to drink booze (which they almost universally could not tolerate well), had plenty of money and loved American Women (especially blonds). I saw their entire culture and religion as corrupt and falsely pious. These are the Saudis, Kuwaitis, and those of other Gulf States of today, who travel to the U.S. and the west and enjoy it here because they can freely drink and fornicate like westerners, Don’t believe any of their FALSE PIOSNESS! Its all a bunch of bullshit! These people would still be goat herding nomads without the oil money.
marc says
Yep @D, Newcombe, I saw a similar pattern in London UK at the same time, you did not have the pakistanis, they are something else and their inbred male spawn have destroyed many thousands of English girls lives. Those old time persians actually never did any harm, but yes, they did have a taste for the local Women and living large, but it was never an issue.
gravenimage says
Good post, D, Newcombe–I would just take issue with one point–these aggressive Muslim males don’t “love” American women–they despise them. They just hope the stories about their being easy are true–and if they are not, they can rape them and feel virtuous about it.
Peggy says
True.
Voytek Gagalka says
One must be always amazed how Mohammedans pervert logic and reasoning whenever they try to use their faculties, almost as if taken directly “alive” (plagiarized) from “The Critique of Pure Reason” by Immanuel Kant, all on the purpose to pervert, discredit and invalidate all valid logical conclusions.
gravenimage says
Raymond Ibrahim: The Christian God ‘Loves’ Sex and Booze?
……………………………
This is just the usual from Muslims–that they have every right to slaughter Christians because they are–supposedly–decadent.
More:
After the more sane-looking host pointed out that in Christianity, fornication and adultery are sins, and that secular Europe’s profligate attitude toward sex is not reflective of Christian teachings, the sheikh loudly protested:
No, fornication and adultery are not forbidden in Christianity. You see, God is love for them. This is one of their false teachings. The foundation for Christianity is that God is love. So what does “God is love” mean? It means that God loves everything.
……………………………
What he *really* hates is the idea of God loving even sinners. Muslims, of course, believe that sinners should be flogged, have their limbs amputated, be thrown off tall buildings, be crucified, be beheaded, be stoned to death.
Every bit as horrifying is what is–and is not–considered a sin in Islam.
It is a sin to “associate those with Allah”–in other words, to be a Christian. It is a sin to leave Islam. It is a sin to say anything critical about Islam, or even to question it.
On the other hand, it is *not* a sin to “marry” a little girl, to rape Infidels and keep them as sex slaves, to beat your wives, to “Honor Kill” any family member who disobeys the male, to stone rape victims to death, or to mass-slaughter unbelievers.