Where have Christians been given space for Christian prayers at a mosque?
Anyway, no one should be surprised by what Feizel Chothia said. The death penalty for apostasy is part of Islamic law. It’s based on the Qur’an: “They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.” (Qur’an 4:89)
A hadith depicts Muhammad saying: “Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him” (Bukhari 9.84.57). The death penalty for apostasy is part of Islamic law according to all the schools of Islamic jurisprudence.
This is still the position of all the schools of Islamic jurisprudence, both Sunni and Shi’ite. Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, the most renowned and prominent Muslim cleric in the world, has stated: “The Muslim jurists are unanimous that apostates must be punished, yet they differ as to determining the kind of punishment to be inflicted upon them. The majority of them, including the four main schools of jurisprudence (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi’i, and Hanbali) as well as the other four schools of jurisprudence (the four Shiite schools of Az-Zaidiyyah, Al-Ithna-‘ashriyyah, Al-Ja’fariyyah, and Az-Zaheriyyah) agree that apostates must be executed.”
Qaradawi also once famously said: “If they had gotten rid of the apostasy punishment, Islam wouldn’t exist today.”
So what would be surprising would be if Chothia rejected the death penalty for apostasy.
His anti-Semitism is also based upon Islam. The Qur’an depicts the Jews as inveterately evil and bent on destroying the well-being of the Muslims. They are the strongest of all people in enmity toward the Muslims (5:82); as fabricating things and falsely ascribing them to Allah (2:79; 3:75, 3:181); claiming that Allah’s power is limited (5:64); loving to listen to lies (5:41); disobeying Allah and never observing his commands (5:13); disputing and quarreling (2:247); hiding the truth and misleading people (3:78); staging rebellion against the prophets and rejecting their guidance (2:55); being hypocritical (2:14, 2:44); giving preference to their own interests over the teachings of Muhammad (2:87); wishing evil for people and trying to mislead them (2:109); feeling pain when others are happy or fortunate (3:120); being arrogant about their being Allah’s beloved people (5:18); devouring people’s wealth by subterfuge (4:161); slandering the true religion and being cursed by Allah (4:46); killing the prophets (2:61); being merciless and heartless (2:74); never keeping their promises or fulfilling their words (2:100); being unrestrained in committing sins (5:79); being cowardly (59:13-14); being miserly (4:53); being transformed into apes and pigs for breaking the Sabbath (2:63-65; 5:59-60; 7:166); and more.
Having imbibed all that and more, why shouldn’t Chothia think they’re behind all the evils of the world?
“Imam given space to worship at an Anglican church justifies the KILLING of Muslims who renounce their faith under Islamic law – and claims Jews ‘were behind the LGBT agenda,'” by Stephen Johnson, Daily Mail Australia, March 29, 2017:
An imam given space for his worshipers to pray at a Perth Anglican church has justified the killing of ex-Muslims under Islamic law and suggested Jews are behind a gay agenda.
Feizel Chothia has published a Facebook post titled, ‘The Islamic Punishment for Apostasy’, only days after Daily Mail Australia captured the leader of a fundamentalist Islamist group calling for the death of former Muslims.
The imam has also made the declaration only weeks after he appeared on ABC television hailing his friendship with Anglican Reverend Peter Humphries.
Imam Chothia compared the killing of ex-Muslims for apostasy to Western nations executing citizens for treason, but he did not explicitly call for them to be executed.
‘Just as states such as Britain or the United States consider high treason a major crime, so Islam prescribes capital punishment for apostates,’ he said on Wednesday.
‘Certainly, the protection of society is the underlying principle in the punishment for apostasy in the legal system of Islam.’…
Last month, Imam Chothia appeared on ABC News 24 with Anglican Reverend Peter Humphries, who has offered Muslims adjoining land for a mosque.
The television segment was about how St Paul’s Church at Beaconsfield, in southern Perth, had given Imam Chothia space for Muslims to worship five years after he first knocked on their door.
‘He was looking for a place where they might hold a prayer meeting and I said, “Well, here because that’s what we do”,’ Reverend Humphries told the ABC program.
It is not suggested that the reverend condones the views of Imam Chotia.
The program said local Muslims had been coming to the church to pray every Friday.
Imam Chothia didn’t call for ex-Muslims to be executed for leaving the faith.
Secular Muslims reject sharia law and the entire idea of death for apostates.
‘The punishment is inflicted only in cases in which the apostate is a cause of harm to the society,’ he said.
‘While in those cases in which an individual simply changes his religion the punishment is not to be applied.’
But after Islamist convert Khalid Masood killed four people in London using a Hyundai Tucson SUV and a knife, Imam Chothia said news reports of terrorism benefited Western governments.
‘Attacks on Western civilisations provide a huge PR boost to the neo-imperialist agenda and free up huge sums of money to be spent on military action against “radical Muslims”,’ he said.
In another Facebook post in December last year, he described the term anti-Semitic as ‘a politically weaponised canard is an attempt to conceal what I believe the truth to be about the doctine of Jewish racial supremacist ideology as the philosophical underpinning for land thievery, terrorism and genocide in Palestine’.
He also bizarrely said Jews were behind the ‘LGBT agenda, the abortion industry, the pornography industry’. …
The Confessions says
In my opinion, there is a recent spike in this kind of rhetoric, at least in Australia. Scum imams like this one and other people like Hizb ut-Tahrir’s Uthman Badar are openly discussing Islam’s heinous policies towards apostates. This imam employs taqiyya in an attempt to ‘normalise’ this conversation and make it semi-appealing/logical to non-Muslims. The more they get away with doing this without being challenged, the more emboldened they become.
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https://theconfessionsweb.wordpress.com
somehistory says
I agree.
gravenimage says
True–Muslims throughout the West are feeling emboldened. Many don’t feel they have to hide Islam’s savagery any more.
The Confessions says
Thanks somehistory and gravenimage.
GI – spot on. Why should Muslims feel as if they need to change their behaviour? Many come to the West and get setup as a protected, privileged class in many aspects – they receive welfare checks without working, live in an Islamic enclave without needing to interact with outsiders, feel no obligation to learn the language etc. And then when Islamic terrorist attacks occur, Muslims are protected by dhimmi Westerners who are ready to defend and shield them from criticism – Twitter hashtags such as “I stand with Muslims” are created immediately after (and sometimes during) terrorist crises. Politicians reflexively side with the Islamic community to make sure they feel “safe” and “okay” despite the fact they are not the victims – they also warn non-Muslims against any “backlash” (which never materialises). In addition, it is non-Muslims who need to exercise “tolerance” and remember the “shared values” we all apparently possess. Post-modern, Western academics fill libraries with anti-Western rhetoric and cry “Islamophobia!” whenever someone wants to discuss the legitimate link between Islamic doctrine and Islamic terrorism.
Muslims are like that kid who is forever protected, not forced to grow up and instead of being taught the lessons of life are encouraged to remain psychologically infantilised. If scrutinised, there will be an army of dhimmis ready to jump to their aid, pat their head and tell them soothingly, “it’s ok, you’re not in the wrong, we are.” Those who do so encourage, to our demise, the bigotry of low expectations.
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https://theconfessionsweb.wordpress.com
gravenimage says
Very troubling–as disturbing as Taqiyya is, like hypocrisy it indicates that Muslims realize that if they tell the truth about Islam that it will be a problem for them. But when Muslims are in power, they *never* practice Taqiyya, and are quite open about how vicious Islam is. This indicates a further danger to us.
The Confessions says
Quite true, will need to keep a keen eye on this.
john spielman says
this type of compromise on the part of those who should know better makes me very angry- the liberal anglican church is dying quickly from irrelevance and now further compromises its integrity by trying to accommodate islam the very enemy of our souls- since Satan is the origin of islamic theology have tricked muhammed into believing it was Gabriel an angel of the one true God who was speaking to him and giving him the antichrist dogma which became islam!
As Jesus said what has lighty have in common with darkness or Christ with Belial ( Satan)
jayell says
The liberal Anglican Church is dying because it’s making up its own rules as it goes along to keep in with fashionable opinion, which reflects why it was invented.In the first place. And this so-called ‘Inter-faith Dialogue’ business where Muslims come in and take the mick is very much ‘de rigeur’ these days (see the recent events at St. John’s, Waterloo and Gloucester Cathedral). A large Anglican church on Aberdeen started allowing Muslims in regularly a couple.of years ago because they apparently didn’t have their.own (large?) place, and no doubt it avoided a Paris-style takeover of the streets (I should think Aberdeen pavements would be a bit cold for grovelling on the ground with one’s rear quarters in the air). The UK press was full of praise for the church’s noble gesture until someone pointed out that it would never be reciprocated. Prince Charles would love all this, of course, and no doubt we’ll get a full merger when he takes over as Head of the C of E – unless we get the Second Coming on his watch and Jesus sues him for every penny he’s got.
Phil Copson says
You actually think that Mohammed got his ideas from a vision in a cave and that he believed his own garbage ???
What next – Mao Tse-tung inspired by the Tooth Fairy ? Pol Pot influenced by Father Christmas ?
Mohammed made it up himself as a repudiation of the religions and values of the civilisations he made war upon. Whatever was good, he returned with evil.
Leaders have to have some sort of message for their followers, and give them a rationale for what they do. “Follow me, lads – I’m a nasty b*stard who’s out for himself!” doesn’t have too much box-office appeal. (Mind you, I am standing for the County Council elections at the moment, so I could try it out and let you know how it goes down on the door-step?)
Mass murderers do what they do because they can, not because of unearthly visions. It’s that simple.
Jeanette says
Mohammed wasn’t smart enough to invent a “religion” that would be taking over the world 1,400 years later.
He was led by some entity that hates decency and wants its followers to do the exact opposite of what is decent. That entity likely also invented the “religions” that worshiped Ba’al and Moloch.
And what entity might that be?
somehistory says
Humphries (I call no man/woman “reverend”) is a fool. He throws peals before swine and gives what is holy to dogs. If he or his congregation members went to iran, sa, or some other moslim ruled country, they would suffer the fate that so many Christians are at the hands of is, and the moslim governments. They certainly wouldn’t be given a place to pray.
In Nigeria and some other places, they wouldn’t be allowed to build a place to pray, or pray in their houses.
Humphries is a fool. Imo, he is not being faithful to Christ, giving space to satan.
Jeanette says
He’s worse than a fool. He supports a culture of evil that has murdered 270 million people since it’s founder’s day.
One has to assume that he has no problem with the crucifixion of small children by Muslims, the rape of babies by Muslims, the burning of people in cages, the mutilation of girls and women, slavery, cutting off body parts for minor infractions, etc.
And he apparently supports the eventual forcing of the entire planet into the Permanent Abyss of Islam.
His support for atrocities makes him complicit, just as surely as some Germans who never actually murdered anyone were complicit in deaths at death camps.
carol says
And look at the SERENE look on his face (boy that Islam must have something we all missed!)
It reminds me of two things:
1/ I once met an old German landlord who provided ducks for a restaurant. I said to his tenant, “He has very kind eyes”. He looked at me and said “He was killing a duck the other day, using a hammer on the back of the head and I asked him ‘How can you do that?’ and he looked up and smiled ‘In the war I used to do it to people'” (appearances can be deceiving?) 2/ Muslims invert logical criticism in order to defuse and discourage it. Throwing it somehow back where it came from is ALL that matters. They are the “People of the Lie” and psychologists find NARCISSISM has VERY strong defences.
I made a good crack the other day “Islam knows OPPRESSION, it does not know FREEDOM”. Today I see a picture of a placard carrier “ISLAMOPHOBIA is not FREEDOM”. Go figure that out.
Frank Verderber says
This is really sad. An Anglican priest helps a Muslim to pray to a demon by entering the halls of a Christian place of worship. Obviously, the priest is a Gnostic apostate. The Anglican church is full of them. Mr.2Just another example of 2Thes.2:1-4, the Great Apostacy before the Revealing of the Man of Sin. I guess they never thought about evangelizing that pagan Muslim, because he needs evangelizing. Sorry to hear how my Lord and Savior is treated by fakers.
somehistory says
I read your comment to my daughter and she said, “I agree with him.” And so do I.
mortimer says
Reverend Peter Humphries is a Pollyanna who has no idea about the evil in Sharia. I do. I read the book. It’s filled with intolerance, supremacism, misogyny, slavery, repression, humiliation and general disregard for human rights.
Islam is fundamentally hostile to Christianity. Islam sees Christianity as something to be destroyed by Muslims and dominated politically.
Islam has appropriated and destroyed thousands of churches, including the largest church Saint Sophia. The destruction and appropriation continues wherever political Islam has the upper hand.
Australia is feeding the crocodile and the croc is growing rapidly.
Peter Humphries wants to extend an olive branch to supremacists who want his church to be beaten down, humiliated and destroyed. He is smugly naïve.
gravenimage says
Agreed, Mortimer–Reverend Peter Humphries probably doesn’t have the first idea what these vicious Mohammedans are actually preaching in his church.
Peggy says
That might even be so but that doesn’t excuse anything. If he is asked to accommodate something by allowing his blessed church to be used then it is his duty to make himself aware of what he is dealing with. Ignorance is no excuse.
He is allowing evil to enter the church where people feel safe and where they expect God to be present not the devil.
So any member of clergy, school principal, politician, anyone who is employed in a field which affects us directly cannot use ignorance as an excuse. It’s way too important to make sure that they understand what they are dealing with.
I would most definitely stop going to that church and let the “good” reverend and as many parishioners know why.
This has happened before and here in Melbourne too. When Muslims use church property to turn it into a temporary mosque they cover all religious objects and icons and cleanse the room.
Once cleansed what needs to happen in order to make it Christian again? Do we keep blessing the premises every Saturday?
Phil Copson says
If Peter Humphries doesn’t know the basics of other world religions, then he has no business being a clergyman.
In any event, this kind of decision shouldn’t be taken at at a local level; the whole question of allowing church premises to be used for Islamic prayer must have been considered by the Church authorities many times over the years.
If they haven’t issued instructions, then it is most probably because they are frightened of grasping the nettle, and are more concerned not to be accused of “targeting Muslims” than they are to preserve the Anglican Church.
Doing a “Look at me being feeble” routine doesn’t win friends and has a wholly negative influence.
Voytek Gagalka says
Give the viper a small finger and it will surely eat the whole hand (if not more). That is the problem with Christians today: they so feel uncertain of their beliefs, they desperately want to be so “nice,” so “good,” even towards their enemies, and never ever ask (demand) for similar reciprocal attitude of good will from them. However showing weakness will never destroy evil, it only empowers evil and the evil keeps them in big contempt as a result.
carol says
Some think they’re being kindly “hosts” – but “sleep tight and the bedbugs will surely bite”.
Karen says
‘The punishment is inflicted only in cases in which the apostate is a cause of harm to the society,’ he said.
Uh huh. And aren’t these harmful acts, such as murder, theft, tape, assault, embezzlement, etc. covered by specific law other than apostasy?
Much more likely any apostate is viewed as the personification of harm and an affront to the religious order.
gravenimage says
If the apostate makes it known in any way that he has left Islam–including failing to attend the Mosque–it is considered harmful to (Muslim) society.
So an apostate is only safe if he tells no one, and keeps acting like a pious Muslim–including practicing every savage aspect of that foul creed.
Karen says
Exactly. And the devious imam who whitewashes the apostate penalty is counting on the clueless Westerner to accept his lies without analysis. The willfully ignorant in the West will breathe a sigh of relief, not understanding that the West’s state of religious freedom is the exception in the world, and seriously threatened by the likes of Chothia.
abad says
Muslims should NOT be allowed inside of Christian churches unless they plan to leave their forsaken Islam for Christianity: True Salvation.
Period.
End of the story.
Benedict says
With this “justification” and short review of verses in the Qur’an in mind, we understand that only a natural decency in human beings prevents Muslims from becoming deadly weapons in the grip of a poisonous ideology, but for how long? The canon, the history and the tenor of Islam compel in the opposite direction and explain the saying that a good Muslim is a bad Muslim.
billybob says
“He also bizarrely said Jews were behind the ‘LGBT agenda, the abortion industry, the pornography industry’. …” For the Muslims, Jews are the root of all evil.They will tell you the Jews are behind ISIS, they will tell you the Jews were behind the World Trade Centre attacks, they will even tell you Jews were behind Hitler and the Holocaust.
gravenimage says
Exactly, Billybob.
somehistory says
moslims hate Jews. They want everyone else to hate Jews too.
moslims kill Jews. They want everyone else to kill Jews too.
That is why they say that Jews are behind every evil action…most of which they themselves committed.
citycat says
Killing of Muslims who renounce their faith
Is the sad reality of Islam
Plus sexual mutilation of both sexes
Escape from Islam is escape from hell on Earth
Infidel girls bewitched into Islam are the sadest of creatures
Muslim girls need help
.
heather says
I don’t know if Jesus would approve of this as he’s not there to worship Him or the same God.
I think it’s an outrage and blasphemy.
John 2:14-15 (NIV)
14 In the temple courts he found people selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. 15 So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.
Manny says
That is absolutely right. What a disgrace that church is. I am outraged.
gravenimage says
Australia: Imam given space for worship at church justifies killing those who leave Islam
………………….
Well, that pretty much sums things up, doesn’t it?
Manny says
What church gave Muslims a space to pray? What blasphemy! What a disgrace. That church should be closed down immediately until an exorcism is performed. They have introduced satan into a holy space. What defilement! I am appalled.
gravenimage says
I’m afraid this is not the only such case, Manny.
Peggy says
And Anglican church is not the only one either.
Nienie says
NOVEMBER 14, 2014 as reported in Washington Times: Rev. Gary Hall, dean of the National Cathedral (Washington, DC) “if we could inspire those of us who are not extremists to find a way to be together… we could begin to build something that will bless us, bless our children, bless all people on the earth.” Friday prayer (muslim) service was held at noon in the northern precept of the cathedral, beneath a large stained glass window etched with names and faces of CHRISTian saints. Several ornate carpets had been arranged on the floor where normally wooden pews face the main altar.
(When a Christian woman saw this, she peacefully protested and was escorted out by security team.)
Baucent says
“In another Facebook post in December last year, he described the term anti-Semitic as ‘a politically weaponised canard is an attempt to conceal what I believe the truth to be about the doctine of Jewish racial supremacist ideology as the philosophical underpinning for land thievery, terrorism and genocide in Palestine’
So what are we to say of the the term “Islamophobic”? A politically weaponised canard, an attempt to conceal the truth about the supremacist doctrine of Islam through mass migration, terrorism….etc.
Muslims in glass houses…
mortimer says
AUSTRALIAN THEOLOGIAN MARK DURIE HAS CLAIMED ISLAMIC PRAYERS HAVE NO PLACE IN CHURCHES
Durie has said:
“A prominent element in Islamic daily prayers is the recitation of Al-Fatihah (the Opening), the first chapter of the Koran. Often described as a blessing, Al-Fatihah has a sting in its tail. After introductory praises, the final sentence of Al-Fatihah is a request for guidance “in the straight path” of Allah’s blessed ones, not the path “of those against whom You are wrathful, nor of those who are astray.”
Who are the ones who are said to be under Allah’s wrath or to have gone astray from his straight path? According to the revered commentator Ibn Kathir, Muhammad himself gave the answer: “Those who have earned the anger are the Jews, and those who are led astray are the Christians.”
Al-Fatihah is as central to Islamic devotion as the Lord’s Prayer is to Christians: It is recited at least 17 times a day as part of daily Muslim prayers. Yet according to Muhammad himself, this prayer, which is on the lips of every pious Muslim day and night, castigates Christians as misguided and Jews as objects of Allah’s wrath.
Another good reason for churches not to host Muslim worship, paradoxically, is their veneration of Isa, the Islamic Jesus.
Muslims venerate Jesus, but as a Muslim prophet. In the pages of the Koran, the disciples of the Muslim Jesus declare, “We are Muslims” (Sura 5:111). The Islamic Jesus is not the Christian Son of God, the divine suffering Savior who died on the cross for the sins of the world.
Certainly there are some similarities between Isa of the Koran and Jesus of the Gospels. The Koran calls Jesus “al-Masih” – the Messiah – and both figures are said to have been born of a virgin, to have performed miracles of healing and to have raised the dead. Yet here the similarities end. Isa of the Koran was not crucified and did not die but was raised up by Allah (Sura 4:157-158).
It is in Muhammad’s vision of the end times that the role of the Muslim Jesus comes into sharp focus. Muhammad taught that when Isa returns, he “will fight for the cause of Islam. He will break the cross, kill pigs, and abolish the poll tax. Allah will destroy all religions except Islam” (Sunan Abu Dawud 27:4310).
What does this saying mean? The cross is a symbol of Christianity. Breaking the cross means abolishing Christianity. According to Islamic law, the poll tax, or jizya, buys protection of the lives and property of Christians (and Jews). Abolishing this tax will mean that jihad will be restarted against Christians and no more protection shall be afforded to those who do not submit to Islam.
The Egyptian jurist Ahmad ibn Naqib stated in his compendium of Shariah, “The Reliance of the Traveller,” that the toleration of Christians living under Islamic law only applies “before the final descent of Jesus. … After his final coming, nothing but Islam will be accepted from them, for taking the poll tax is only effective until Jesus’ descent … for he will rule by the law of Muhammad … as a follower of our Prophet” (translation by Nuh Ha Mim Keller, pages 603-4).”
In this end-times scenario, the Islamic Jesus becomes the ultimate destroyer of Christianity, when, by his sword, he compels all followers of the Christ of the Gospels to become Muslims and live in accordance with the Shariah of Muhammad.
Churches should not welcome into their buildings the veneration of Isa the Islamic Jesus, who, as a true Muslim, is intended to bring about the final, violent destruction of Christianity. By all means, let Christians show kindness to their Muslim neighbors, but the sentiments embedded in Islamic daily prayers, which curse Jews as the target of Allah’s wrath and Christians for going astray, can have no place in a Christian church – even if recited in the cadences of classical Arabic.
Rev. Mark Durie, an Anglican priest, is the author of “Revelation: Do We Worship
Florida Jim says
Keep all Muslims away from civil people and make them live together in Africa where they have done so well.
Jeanette says
Muslims took over whole cultures in Africa by violence.
I think Muslims should be confined to the Middle East, preferably to Saudi Arabia, where the people of Mohammed’s time failed to stop that vicious monster, thus burdening the rest of the world with his followers today, 1,400 years later.
Let the Saudis pamper all the Muslims.
Leave Africa to heal from the atrocities perpetrated on it by Muslims.
Angemon says
Standard, orthodox islam.
TJ says
When a person reads the bible and the koran from the right angle, it shows Jesus has much more talent than the authors of the koran. Intelligent parables, healing the sick, the blind, the paralyzed and raising people from the dead is awesome. His acts are much more impressive than the dubious achievements of the koran, which are: perverse exaggerations against Jews, arrogance over murdered polytheists babies, parables that are dumber than those of Jesus, use of fables as evidence muslims can murder their children, elimination of all the quotes of Jesus, favoring vague reports made centuries later over the murder of Jesus over detailed accounts from the period. The evidence plainly shows Jesus does not belong in a relationship with the writers of the koran. Too bad so many people have died early because some individuals keep pretending that the writers of the koran belong in a relationship with Jesus.