Back in January when I initially reported on Gargasoulas’ self-identification as a Muslim, numerous people indignantly tweeted and emailed me, saying that Dimitrious Gargasoulas was not Muslim, he was Greek, and this was not a jihad attack, as he was simply insane. That Islam is a religion and Greek is a nationality seemed to escape a surprising number of people, including Australian authorities. But indeed, Gargasoulas did seem to be quite unbalanced, and his statements at his court appearance only underscore that fact. What mainstream analysts fail to grasp is that being unbalanced and being a jihadi are not mutually exclusive. In fact, Islam attracts the psychically marginal, as it provides them with a justification of and blessing for their impulses to rage, hatred and violence.
“Alleged Bourke Street killer declares: ‘I am the saviour,'” by Adam Cooper, The Age, April 19, 2017 (thanks to Jill):
Alleged Bourke Street killer Dimitrious Gargasoulas has declared himself “the saviour” and not guilty in his first appearance before a court since he was charged over the deadly drive through Melbourne’s CBD.
Mr Gargasoulas, 26, appeared to be smirking as he appeared before Melbourne Magistrates Court via video link from prison on Wednesday,wearing a black jumper, with stubble on his chin and with his hair all black.
“Your Honour, do you know … I want to tell you something,” he called out, before he was cut off by his lawyer, who told him there were media in the court.
Mr Gargasoulas then said: “I just want to say that Aboriginal law is identical to Muslim law.”
He then mentioned the Bible and Koran, and continued: “Did you know that Muslim faith is the correct faith according to the whole world? And I am not guilty.”
He ended his rant with the statement: “I am the saviour.” Magistrate Kate Hawkins then cut off the video link.
Mr Gargasoulas had not appeared before a court since he allegedly killed six people on January 20 by driving a maroon Holden Commodore deliberately at pedestrians about 1.30pm….
Krazy Kafir says
Devout believer in Islam, or an insane person? There’s a difference?
Mak says
Yes, the latter one is the scapegoat for the MSM to hide what’s going on. 🙁
Leon Degney says
Please explain! I suggest there has to be some sort of mental impairment to even consider Istam to be any religon at all let alone the “correct faith for the whole world”. IMHO I think the adherence to any religion or cult requires a certain amount of mental instability as a prerequisit.
Greyhound Fancier says
You may be on shaky ground if you consider all religions as dependent upon mental instability.
BC says
Believing in things that are not there and hearing voices etc. is usually considered to be evidence of metal illness.. Leon is correct and I share his opinion.
Many people have entered treatment facilities for precisely those symptoms.
One can be mentally ill and harmless and also mentally ill and dangerous. The high number of psychopaths who have embraced Islam is quite evident..
hpoitiers says
When judgment of religion weighs clinical data, people of religious faith – excluding Islam – are notably healthier mentally and physically than non-believers. Islam was born of a madman, as deluded as a Hitler or Stalin, and it fosters a mad malevolence in its generally already unbalanced adherents.
Peggy says
BC says
April 20, 2017 at 3:37 am
Believing in things that are not there and hearing voices etc. is usually considered to be evidence of metal illness.. Leon is correct and I share his opinion.
———————–
Sorry Greyhoud there was no way I would reply to BC so I attached it to your post.
Yes, believing in things that are not there is odd but who says that God isn’t there? How do you know that?
There are many things you can’t see, smell or touch but they are still there. There is historic evidence for what is written in the Bible too.
Jeanette says
CAUTION!
If all of Islam is declared mentally disturbed, the elites of the West will rob western taxpayers to pay for the treatment of 1.7 billion people.
We simply can’t afford that.
Westman says
“War is deceit”, said Mo, and playing the part of the mentally ill should be considered a natural tactic. Reduced sentences and communion with the jailed jihad “brothers” about future atrocities is better than normal infidel justice.
“Did you know that Muslim faith is the correct faith according to the whole world?” Another play on the, “We are 1.6 Billion strong so we must be right”, poor logic. Historically Islam reached 30% of the World Population and now it’s about 21% out of 7.5 Billion. That’s not impressive.
And when more Muslims realize they have a dim future in the West under Islam, that percentage will decline further.
davej says
Islam in general needs to be declared a mental illness. There are plenty of grounds for doing so, starting with it’s absurd self-identification as “The Religion of Peace” despite all the evidence that it is in fact the Religion of War.
Only the insane could endorse a faith so heavily based on the torture and abuse of others. There is nothing spiritual within their ideology, it is just rationalizations for the oppression of women, gays and unbelievers, along with a self-centered philosophy of living off the efforts of everyone else.
Pathological dysfunction should not be classed as a religion, it should be treated as a mental illness.
no_one says
I agree. Islam is the invention of 7th century lazy thug.
AleX says
Not only was mohomot a lazy thug, he also acted cowardly. Shamelessly unprincipled as$ hole.
Peggy says
I give you all that but not the as$ hole remark. Assholes have a necessary purpose.
Leon Degney says
Islam, *religion of peace* certainly not, *religion of war* yes, certainly. Anyone who converts to or who by an unfortunate accident of birth continues to adhere to the vile ideaology of Islam IMHO is a victim of mental illness. A religion that treats the fairer sex of their own as something on about the level of a dog, while promoting the extermination of non-believers or reduces them to less than second class citizens if they pay their allow to exist tax, has no place in a western society. It behoves one and all to look askance at any *religion* with teachings such as these.
The bleeding hearts who thought it would be a great idea for them to “share” Western and European countries also need a comprehensive mental examination. No farmer I know of would think of keeping his dogs and sheep in the same pen and expect the dogs to “assimilate”. An abject disaster the flooding of Europe with Middle Eastern migrants has been. These people have no intention of assimilating and have been extemely vocal about this, time and time again. In fact they stand on street corners with loud hailers proclaiming their intention to not assimilate but take over in no uncertain terms. Yet despite this and the continued murder of innocents daily the dumb as duckshit political “leaders” keep telling the citizens of these countries what a “WONDERFUL” contribution to cultural enrichmenbt etc. is being made by this, in so many cases, rabble.
dumbledoresarmy says
Sir Winston Churchill, in “The Story of the Malakand Field Force” (an account of various skirmishes between the British Raj and Mohammedan ghazi raiders), defines Islam as “the religion of blood and war”.
Nearly 100 years later, Jacques Ellul, a very astute French sociologist and lay theologian, wrote a preface on the subject of Jihad, for his friend Bat Yeor’s monumental tome, “The Decline of Eastern Christianity Under Islam”. In that preface he says of Islam that it is “fundamentally warlike”.
Ellul never, never wasted words. Every word he writes has weight. He says what he means and means what he says. And therefore, when *he* says that Islam is “fundamentally warlike”, it behoves us to pay attention.
Jeanette says
Westerners (perpetual payers to the rest of the world) cannot afford to treat 1.7 billion mentally disturbed people.
And isn’t it interesting that Muslims are mentally balanced enough to not commit these crimes in front of police stations, FBI buildings, or Scotland Yard? Nidal Hassan committed his mass murder on a US military base – where Clinton and Obama had arranged that the soldiers were unarmed.
Muslims are evil, not mentally disturbed.
DFD says
Dear Folks:
=========
Sorry, ‘bit off topic, but I just can’t help myself, I have to seek, even beg for your comments. So I hope that you will indulge in supplying a sought for answer. Here is the question and its background:
A little problem, and wonder what your suggested solution would be. Note: ***This is not hypothetical!*** I am talking or referring to a genuine case, or situation.
A high ranking US official, very, very high ranking in fact, stated that Hitler was a good man, and that future historians will have to work hard to understand Hitler’s genius and that his system of government and political ideology was the best for Germany. His family has, purportedly, a history of Anti-Semitism, but is very influential. On top of that he promised to fight NWOs and secret societies, just like Hitler did, but his speech was not so extensive in reference thereto. That is to say, he was wise enough to leave out all anti-Semitic references in his speech, though these normally accompany such rhetoric. Oh, he and his family belong to a very fundamental, large and conservative part of Christendom.
So he is obviously a loony, by JW readers standards, as well as the MSM, but now consider that this guy can actually start a nuclear war by firing submarine based US missiles against Russia, China or even both, or any other country, Israel or North Korea for instance, as he decides. Another problem, he is very rich, so is his family, and they are firmly entrenched, nay, they are part of the financial and political hierarchy. Also, you can’t get him out of office, you can’t just remove him; very, very complicated because of his position. And he is a ***darling of the Pentagon*** – he is one of theirs by all accounts. They’ll reduce you to mud, if you were relevant, they have that kind of power. On top of that, he’s also relatively young for a man of such power, whilst in addition he also has a considerable public following. Big problem, no?
How would you deal with him? Any who dares to answer?
PS: So far only Graven has answered – and got it as wrong as she gets most things about me.
To emphasize:
===========.
It is ***NOT HYPOTHETICAL***! The primary question is ***NOT*** who, that’s secondary.
The ***PRIMARY*** question is what to do about him, how to get rid of him.
—————————————————————————————————-
Remember: He wants to prevent the “NWO”, he takes it as reality, and “secret societies”, which he therefore also takes for real. And he is of the opinion that Hitler was such a genius that he requires the comprehension of future historians, who he says will have to work hard to understand. And that man can start a nuclear inferno anytime he wants to!!!!!
As to who, his identity, I dare to release the name, yes – but only if or when there are answers. Again, NOTHING HYPOTHETICAL! IT IS REAL!
no_one says
No one has managed to take down Russia. Neither Napoleon nor Hitler. And nobody will. I am not Russian, but Russians probably can take care of this guy if they want.
DFD says
That’s no answer to the question. The question was not about Russia, nor has Russia anything to do with this
gravenimage says
DFD, you have posted this on another thread. Here was my answer there:
DFD wrote:
Additional
since you are so smart about Nazis
===========================
PS: I just couldn’t help myself ? I have to seek, even beg for your comments. So I hope that you will indulge in supplying a sought for answer. Here is the question and its background:
Since you are all so Hitler obsessed and Nazi watching, and ***suspecting***, here is a little problem:
A high ranking US official, very, very high ranking in fact, stated that Hitler was a good man, and that future historians will have to work hard to understand Hitler’s genius and that his system of government and political ideology was the best for Germany.
………………………………….
Where did Donald Trump ever laud Hitler? Given the false claims that he is “Fascist”, I would imagine his calling Hitler a good man and a genius and claiming that his ideology was the best for Germany would have been plastered all over the press. Links?
In fact, if Trump had publicly praised Hitler and his policies, I doubt *very much* he ever would have been elected. Hitler is not a popular figure in the Land of the Free.
More:
His family has, purportedly, a history of Anti-Semitism, but is very influential. On top of that he promises to fight NWOs and secret societies, just like Hitler did, but his speech was not so extensive in reference thereto. That is to say, he was wise enough to leave out all anti-Semitic references in his speech, though these normally accompany such rhetoric. Oh, he and his family belong to a very fundamental part of Christendom.
………………………………….
I have always seen Trump condemn antisemitism, as well as support Israel. If you have any proof of his being antisemitic, please provide.
And Trump is not a Christian fundamentalist–he seems to be a pretty mainstream Protestant.
More:
So he is obviously a loony, but now consider that this guy can actually start a nuclear war by firing submarine based US missiles against Russia, China or even both.
………………………………….
Trump can be a bit impulsive, but I have never considered him to be “a loony”. In fact, though I have had a few reservations about his knowledge of Islam, I have praised his general opposition to Jihad. I voted for him myself, and urged others here to do so as well. He is not perfect, but is likely *much* better than his Islamophilic opponent would have been.
More:
Another problem, he is very rich, so is his family, and they are firmly entrenched, nay, they are part of the financial and political hierarchy. You can’t get him out of office, he is a darling of the Pentagon.
………………………………….
Only one president–Richard Nixon–has effectively ever been pushed to resign. This is not because of Trump’s wealth–only far Leftists believe he has done anything that should make him resign.
More:
And he most certainly wont resign, and he cannot be removed from office; very, very complicated because of his position. They’ll reduce you to mud, they have that kind of power. On top of that, he’s also relatively young for a man of such power, whilst in addition he also has a considerable public following. Big problem, no?
………………………………….
Actually, Donald Trump was the oldest candidate to ever be elected president. He is a vigorous guy; but he is not a young man.
More:
How would you deal with him? Any who dares to answer? Thought so!
………………………………….
Why wouldn’t I ‘dare’ to answer?
I have been disappointed on one or two points with Trump–chiefly with his not pursuing the “Muslim ban” more vigorously–but there is no reason I would want to see him out of office, nor, I imagine, would most people here.
But if Trump ever *did* do anything I considered worthy of impeachment, I would certainly support it. The figure in his bank account would not make any difference one way or another.
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/04/syria-sunni-muslims-murder-126-people-wound-55-in-bomb-attack-targeting-shiite-evacuees#comment-1654759
What, exactly, did I get wrong here?
DFD, I notice you are still claiming that Trump has lauded Hitler as a good man and a genius, and that he applauded Nazism as the best for Germany–I can find no reference for this at all, nor have I ever heard anyone else claim that he ever said anything remotely like this.
It is important to back up claims with proven facts–especially when the claims are as wild and ugly as these.
DFD says
Gravenimage:
1) “….What, exactly, did I get wrong here?”
Answer — EVERYTHING!!!
2) “….DFD, I notice you are still claiming that Trump has lauded Hitler as a good man and a genius, and that he applauded Nazism as the best for Germany–I can find no reference for this at all, nor have I ever heard anyone else claim that he ever said anything remotely like this. … It is important to back up claims with proven facts–especially when the claims are as wild and ugly as these.”
Answer — HILARIOUS! What a riot! Hehehehe, Hohohoho… Sorry, but it’s funny!
BTW, you said specifically: “…I notice you are still claiming that Trump has lauded Hitler as a good man and a genius, and that he applauded Nazism as the best for Germany–I can find no reference for this at all…”
Answer — NEITHER CAN I! 🙂
The problem is that you, for one reason or another, known to you only, proclaim that I say things I don’t or didn’t say. Tell me where I mention Trump in this question. Nowhere, you just proclaim that I do. Try logic. The fact that you make an assumption and then based upon your assumption make statement and assign it (to me or whomever), doesn’t mean that your statement is true.
Pity about Trump. Try again
=====================
Custos Custodum says
DFD is clearly trying to hijack the entire thread with wildly extraneous but emotion-laden posts.
Thanks, gravenimage, for your super-human patience!
gravenimage says
DFD wrote:
Gravenimage:
1) “….What, exactly, did I get wrong here?”
Answer — EVERYTHING!!!
………………………………..
This is so sweeping as to be meaningless, I’m afraid.
More:
BTW, you said specifically: “…I notice you are still claiming that Trump has lauded Hitler as a good man and a genius, and that he applauded Nazism as the best for Germany–I can find no reference for this at all…”
Answer — NEITHER CAN I! ?
The problem is that you, for one reason or another, known to you only, proclaim that I say things I don’t or didn’t say. Tell me where I mention Trump in this question. Nowhere, you just proclaim that I do. Try logic. The fact that you make an assumption and then based upon your assumption make statement and assign it (to me or whomever), doesn’t mean that your statement is true.
Pity about Trump. Try again
………………………………..
DFD, you have described this mystery figure as “a high ranking US official, very, very high ranking in fact”, and said, “consider that this guy can actually start a nuclear war by firing submarine based US missiles against Russia, China or even both”.
There is no one besides the American president who can start a nuclear war using American weaponry–are you unfamiliar with this fact? Even if the system were hacked–probably not possible; there are likely too many safeguards–or there was a rogue military faction that could pull it off–also unlikely in the extreme–the American president could almost certainly forestall a war once it was made clear that he did not authorize the strike.
You have also referred to his family’s wealth, and his being popular with the US military, and his being difficult to dislodge from power–all things that point to Trump.
If you have someone else in mind–for whatever reason–why not say so? Is there any point to this game playing?
I can’t find a reference to *any* high-ranking US official praising Hitler, by the way. It is possible that it could be missed without a specific name reference, but that is unlikely. Any high-ranking US official who publicly lauded Hitler and the Nazis would get a *lot* of critical attention.
DFD says
Very interesting, fun even.
Criticism has been launched, of course, about me, my awareness, knowledge, everything but the subject matter. Later about that – again.
The criticism:
C — “There is no one besides the American president who can start a nuclear war using American weaponry–are you unfamiliar with this fact? Even if the system were hacked–probably not possible; there are likely too many safeguards–or there was a rogue military faction that could pull it off–also unlikely in the extreme–the American president could almost certainly forestall a war once it was made clear that he did not authorize the strike.
– Answers: That’s not a fact, that’s wishful thinking. Sorry. Every general with the launch codes can start. The general in charge of SAC has the codes, the president only confirms these, by issuing. Same for the navy. Etc. Once the codes have been confirmed (or not, general’s decision if he so wants to!), there’s no turning back, maybe for the bombers of SAC, but not for missiles. They have no “self destruct” facility, that would be idiotic – in case the system gets hacked, or accidentally triggered. Everything done by humans can be undone by humans! Several hacks and intrusions were done to very high alert and or security levels, including defcon 2. Even from Britain…
C: You have also referred to his family’s wealth, and his being popular with the US military, and his being difficult to dislodge from power–all things that point to Trump.
– Answer: No, definitely not. Trump isn’t a fraction as popular with the mil as this guy. Trump can easily be dislodge from power. Soros & Co. are working on it. Family’s wealth? Trump’s a real estate developer, that’s all. Wealthy by normal standards. But if he wants to start a project, he needs loans! Next to Soros, as an example ONLY, Trump is a pauper. He needed loans from Soros, as does his son in law, his adviser.
C: If you have someone else in mind–for whatever reason–why not say so? Is there any point to this game playing?
– Answer: That’s the whole point! I didn’t force anyone to jump to conclusions. Not Graven, no one! EXPLANATION at the end of this reply.
C: I can’t find a reference to *any* high-ranking US official praising Hitler, by the way. It is possible that it could be missed without a specific name reference, but that is unlikely. Any high-ranking US official who publicly lauded Hitler and the Nazis would get a *lot* of critical attention.
– Answer: Really? Two answers actually: 1) If the questioner couldn’t find… “but hat is unlikely” – all I can say is: get a job as a Pope. He too is unfailable… 2) “… get a *lot* of critical attention…” Wishful thinking. Depends upon how powerful that man and his family is!
And that leads to the point of all this, which is precisely what I said right away in the beginning: Namely: WHAT CAN YOU DO ABOUT HIM? Why doing the irrelevant, in a way, thing and trying to guess who, like a child’s game? As I said and asked, WHAT TO DO ABOUT HIM? Then, as I assured Wellington and Westman, then I will give the name and the links/references for the statements made. Normal procedures are useless, the MSM wont say a word. They love him!
So, since everybody is so smart about everything (…unlikely to err, see “C” above) what is the solution? I ask most humbly. Funny thing, nobody dared mentioning one. Instead, dodging all possible answers, except this: “We do the usual and trust in the system…”
And may I be forgiven for sneering at the notion that I was referring to Trump, sorry, The Saviour. Stop guessing who, offer a solution. Remember, you all hate Nazis and you believe that Hitler was a Muslim, or something along these lines. So, what to do about a Hitler admirer/fan (and thus Muslim/Muslim admirer or whatever {it’s your logic, NOT MINE!}) in the highest echelons of the US, with a finger at the nuclear button. i.e., he **HAS** the launch codes! Never mind the Saviour and his banking board, sorry cabinet. I assure you, Trump is irrelevant in this context.
So, in case it’s still not clear:
WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ABOUT HIM?!
That is the question I put forward. Make suggestions, give answers, I give the name – and links for the statements.
gravenimage says
DFD, if you do indeed have some sort of inside information about a high-ranking figure who admires Hitler but is so powerful he has covered up all criticism of it and is poised to launch nuclear war against Russia and China in an end run around the president, I would certainly want to start fighting against that.
I’m sure I and everyone here would be most grateful.
gravenimage says
Thank you, Custos.
Mac-101 says
Jacob Schiff and his BANKSTER Buds took down Russia and made good a 50 year vow to murder the Czar and his family and at least 3 Million Orthodox Christians and Jews. All it took was 20 million in gold in 1917 prices, and a chartered ship to take Leon Trotsky and 200 Bolsheviks from NEW YORK CITY to Sweden and a sealed railroad car sent through Germany with Max Warburg’s gaining the by the Kaiser consent.
.
As for now I can’t say if Putin is real and not Controlled Opposition. According to Forbes his Familia is worth between 4 to 40 billion and 10 out of the 14 original Oligarchs still control the majority of the wealth of the Russian people with their major connections to the ‘City of London”!
.
So I’d say it is most likely the Major International Banksters WON!
EmHotep says
I pray to God Dump Tromp will start a war with Russia and we will see SATAN 2 over DC in 5 minutes. There is no humanity left in this world. I support Putin he is a man of Honor. I also would like to see some TOPOL M at the golf club.
EmHotep says
Such a beauty 😉
DFD says
The question has nothing to do with Putin, nor with Russia. Russia, Cxhina, Israel, N Korea, have only been mentioned as examples. Could be anywhere else.
The question is about a an
=====================
extremely powerful man in the US.
==========================
Neither Russia nor Turkey, or any other country are relevant to the question, but thank you for your reply
gravenimage says
EmHotep, why do you want to see Russia destroy the United States? Trump’s congratulations to Erdogan was clueless, but this does not mean that Americans support a Caliphate in Turkey.
There has, in fact, been a great deal of criticism of Trump for his call to Erdogan:
“Donald Trump criticised for congratulating Recep Tayyip Erdogan on winning Turkish referendum”
Critics argue reforms will hand extensive power to a man with an increasingly autocratic bent and leave few checks and balances
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-recep-tayyip-erdogan-congratulate-turkey-referendum-president-powers-increase-reaction-a7688171.html
Perhaps you are not aware of this?
EmHotep says
Gravenimage, I said “There is no humanity left in this world” so obviously after a nuclear war there will be nobody left in this world, so maybe our suffering ends.
I am changing it I hope Putin will nuke Turkey 🙂
I think I have Learned helplessness syndrome I’ve checked it from wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness
gravenimage says
Dear EmHotep, don’t give up–there is still a *lot* of compassion left in this world.
If things get too bad in Turkey, please start looking at getting out.
Most of us have no intention to surrendering to Islam. Things are not hopeless yet.
Mac-101 says
Are you of Satan?
EmHotep says
I like the design of this weapon. Satan is the NATO name. Real name is Sarmat II. Watch it you will like it too.
EmHotep says
@ DF, please watch the video, why trump admin is so low quality and no different than Erdogan.
https://twitter.com/CNNTonight/status/854541057673003008
EmHotep says
@DFD, someone who is against NWO, or people like, rothschild, soros, rockefeller is certainly needed at the office.
Anti-zionism should be different than anti-semitism. The first one is perfectly acceptable. If you dig down what is happening in the Middle East and Turkey is a result of a plan;
http://www.globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815
So I am sure that we need someone against the NWO. We are against the divide and conquer strategy as Turks, also Russians are against this plan. So there shall be 1 Syria, 1 Turkey and unfortunately Iraq was destroyed by NWO powers with fake claims such as nukes etc. (They killed 1 million people)
I don’t know if it makes sound.
Thanks.
DFD says
OK, OK. I gather that means that you are of the opinion that this person should remain in the office he occupies?
EmHotep says
I don’t know the person, but anybody who opposes the NWO, and the greater israel plans can be a good person. I remember people hated obama admin because of the “establishment”. So somebody should stop them, of course trump is just a businessman and he is not capable of dealing with this.
Still I am not American but your current government looks really bad from the overseas. Everybody here and in EU compares Trump and Erdogan how bad both they are.
So I can not talk on behalf of American people, if he is not that good he should be removed otherwise he should stay.
gravenimage says
EmHotep wrote:
Anti-zionism should be different than anti-semitism. The first one is perfectly acceptable. If you dig down what is happening in the Middle East and Turkey is a result of a plan;
http://www.globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815
………………………
Dear EmHotep, the idea that Israel wants to take over Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, and big chunks of Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Iraq is a Muslim conspiracy theory.
There is no such plan by Israel.
For one thing, such a plan would destroy Israel. Since Israel is a democracy, such a sudden increase of her Muslim population would give them a majority, and they would simply vote for the destruction of Israel.
And why would Israel have given up the Sinai and Gaza if they were bent on taking over the region?
I imagine that such conspiracy theories are rife in Turkey–but they are not true.
Here’s more on GlobalResearch and its anti-Western conspiracy theories:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch
EmHotep says
Dear Gravenimage, thank you for the info, I really trust you. Today in Turkey and in Russia this “conspiracy theory” is the number one subject independent from religious background. It’s like paranoia here, even some of my jewish friends blame some other jews for this plan, I think the ultra orthodox ones. ( or it may be likud party fractions)
I always said we accept the normal Israel and support it without a question. Jews have every right to have their own country. As you know the situation is very tender in Turkey and everybody blames each other, so I think this paranoia is one of them. I have no other explanations. Under normal conditions secular Turks are friends of Jewish people.
Thank you.
gravenimage says
Thanks for your reply and your kind comments, EmHotep.
I don’t want you to simply take my word for it–you can do your own research.
I’m glad you support Israel–it is the only democratic nation in the region.
And I am not surprised about the rumors–but finding out the truth can only help those opposing Erdogan and his push for absolute power. I support the secularists in Turkey.
Wellington says
Anti-Zionism, EmHotep, is merely a very thin disguise for anti-Semitism. Israel is the only truly decent and free polity in the Middle East and the anti-Zionism rot is rooted ultimately, I am certain here, in a broader anti-Semitism about 99% of the time.
BTW, I am not Jewish, indeed I am of German and Polish Roman Catholic stock going back centuries, but I nonetheless consider myself a Zionist. One, you know, need not be Jewish in order to embrace the major features of Zionism, among them being a homeland for the Jews and the revival as a living language of the extraordinary language which is Hebrew, which has of course occurred PRECISELY because of the Zionist movement founded over a century ago by people like Theodor Herzl.
EmHotep says
Dear Wellington, we are not against Israel in it’s current shape, but we are certainly against the Greater Israel Project of Promised Land or ha-Aretz ha-Muvtacha. Meanwhile, Gravenimage told me there is no such project called greater Israel, than there is no problem. But, if there is something like given below, there will be a real WW3 and this has nothing to do with religion.
“Greater Israel” consists in an area extending from the Nile Valley to the Euphrates. According to Stephen Lendman, “A near-century ago, the World Zionist Organization’s plan for a Jewish state included:
• historic Palestine;
• South Lebanon up to Sidon and the Litani River;
• Syria’s Golan Heights, Hauran Plain and Deraa; and
• control of the Hijaz Railway from Deraa to Amman, Jordan as well as the Gulf of Aqaba.
Some Zionists wanted more – land from the Nile in the West to the Euphrates in the East, comprising Palestine, Lebanon, Western Syria and Southern Turkey.”
http://www.globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815
I consider the above given paragraph as a conspiracy theory, because it will be end of Israel. No one will give up their land here in Asia Minor.
So I see no problems.
aDhimmiSaysWhat? says
Easy. First, identify him/her. Then put public pressure on by exposing what they have said about Hitler. If they hold public office, they can be voted out.
What I wouldn’t do is make a long, cryptic, off-topic comment on a site and try to stir shit up. I’ll admit, I enjoyed reading it. Quite fun to speculate, is it Not? But if you have something to say, just say it. Until then, I will just assume you are a crazy person looking for attention.
DFD says
aDhimmiSaysWhat?
Brother are you on the wrong track. Sorry about that.
First of all, NO SPECULATION! As I said, nothing hypothetical, but real.
You said: “Easy. First, identify him …”
For once, he is a household name by now, worldwide, not just in the US.
For another, I said, the name is secondary. I will release it, though after a few answers.
You said: “Until then, I will just assume you are a crazy person looking for attention.”
Answer to that, you can assume what you like, who cares. Either you can answer or you can’t. Though, I hasten, you made an effort according with your understanding. But you offered no solution to the problem. As I said within the post itself, your approach wont work.
gravenimage says
aDhimmiSaysWhat?, DFD is claiming that it is Donald Trump who praised Hitler as a “good person” and a “genius”. He is mistakien, though.
DFD says
Nonsense!
=========
I answered to that nonsense claim of yours, above. READ IT! Don’t make FALSE claims about my statements, don’t FALSIFY these!
That fact you falsely claim that I state that about Trump is utter bull! I gave no name, and stated that I will do so later on.
But first I am trying to gauge feelings, what you people will do to get rid of such a man, or what you suggest.
So, your obsession to proclaim false statements about me is — flabbergasting. Can’t you invent false statements about somebody else?
GOOD BYE!
gravenimage says
I can find no other reference. If you didn’t mean Trump you should just say who you do mean. Right now, no other figure in the US can start a nuclear war with Russia or China. Not that I think he is apt to do such a thing.
Mac-101 says
Unfortunately, I believe the man DFD is revering to has been long dead. The Globalist NWO made him and placed him in power. His Love of Country and Patriotism made him go against these very powers and his own father’s organizations, and he paid for it with his life. I don’t know how much further I should go and what DFD is trying to lead people to. But if you go back in history you will remember his quotes and ultimately his death. The main clue is if you mess with da FED, Ya end up DEAD!
.
Perhaps it may be someone else. But this person fits da bill!
.
dumbledoresarmy says
“What I wouldn’t do is make a long, cryptic, off-topic comment on a site and try to stir shit up.”
EXACTLY.
gravenimage says
That’s what it seems like at this point, DDA.
Westman says
DFD, your description could fit anyone, even POTUS.
Try providing more information instead of blanket descriptions such as, “future historians will have to work hard to understand Hitler’s genius and that his system of government and political ideology was best for Germany”. That is not nuanced enough to know if that was a compartmentalized attitude about a specific time, or out of context, since it is neither a quote or writing from from the source; accompanied by enough information to determine the context. Like all, “reporting”, it contains its own bias.
If we compartmentalize and look at specific things Hitler did, most were evil and a few were good for Germany.
Let’s hear your plan for raising decimated, war-debted, Germany from the economic ashes of WWI? The Allies now generally agree that their laying war reparations on Germany led directly to the rise of Hitler. He instituted public infrastucture work, like Obama said he would and didn’t, renewed industrialization, and led Germany to prosperity.
However, with that success and the undying appreciation of the citizens, like Egypt’s Erdogan, he granted himself more power and set upon conquest and the elimination of the Jews. His own personal predjudices, ego, and possibly syphilis turned him a monster that led Germany back to destruction and wreaked devastation upon the world; most heavily on Jews, Russians, and the English. In the majority of his leadership, Hitler was pure evil, as was Pol Pot, Genghis Khan, Muhammad, etc.
The Marshal plan was created to avoid the creation of another Hitler by helping to rebuild instead of the punishing that led to WWII. It didn’t work in Iraq because Iraq never been a cohesive nation, thanks to Islam.
Would I remove a military leader because he thought Hitler did one thing right? Tell me the source details, in depth, the context, and then I can make an informed decision.
Wellington says
Simply state that official, DFD. I trust you don’t mean Sean Spicer, Trump’s press secretary, who meant last week to convey that Hitler himself never used chemical weapons on his own German people in some village or other, unlike Assad. Of course, Spicer cleared up what should have been a clearer statement by him in the first place since Hitler did indeed authorize chemical weapons against many (especially Jews) in his concentration and death camps, but surely you can’t continue to think that Spicer in any way meant to exonerate Hitler. Dennis Prager, himself a devout Jew, has called the opprobrium directed Spicer’s way just the latest example of leftist hysteria and deceit.
In any case, don’t be so coy and, specifically, please, if you would, desist from castigating gravenimage, who has no superior here among commenters respecting reasoned, accurate and detailed assessments of the topic du jour. None finer than her.
Your turn. Give it a shot.
DFD says
Westman & Wellington
=================.
Thanks guys. Your responses were so far the most reasonable.
Yes, I admit, it’s a bit cryptic. But you two ought to know me well enough that I don’t bul..t. So, it’s not an invented person. As I said, nothing hypothetical.
That this man needs to be named is clear. That references or referrals to these statements are required, is obvious. And I hope that I have your trust that I will most certainly provide these. Incidentally, these statements about nasty Adolf were made in conjunction with Adolf. These related directly to him when he was questioned about him and about Germany. The statements were made in public! As I said, links will be provided.
So, to the two of you, again, I will reveal the name, with links.
But, if you read the post you may note that my intend is to find out what readers think ought to be done about him. Being able to launch nukes from subs is no small matter! And as I said, he is enormously powerful, as is his family. The Pentagon? As I said, he is THE darling, or at least one of these…
So, any notion of “…the public must be made aware…” – You will be reduced to rubble faster than you can drink a glass of water.
So what to do? That is what I want to know. And as I said, and I emphasize, it is definitely not a hypothetical scenario, not one bit. Westman for instance said that it could even fit the POTUS. What can I say, definitely, very much so, the UPPER, the HIGHEST echelons! Making the public aware? Think what would have happened if those who ‘broke in’ (Nixon) would have been caught? It would have never gone public, I assure you. Think about Woodward and Bernstein, their situation was, for a time, rather precarious. And Nixon wasn’t nearly as powerful and popular as Kennedy…
So, not easy. Perhaps that helps to understand why I want first to know what measures are suggested to ‘solve the problem’. OK, to be a bit honest, there’s a good deal of black humor involved on my part. But I hope and trust I will be forgiven for that. Besides, I think I am also quite well known for that…
OK, finally about Graven. I am somewhat sad about this. I like her, and generally respect her. However, recently she developed the notion that I am a Nazi or Nazi sympathizer. Or something along these lines. Don’t know. Don’t ask, I have no explanation. Doesn’t make sense to me nor do have an explanation, as said. But when people develop opinions, than that’s it, nothing one can do. So, if you scroll up a bit, I said “Good bye” to her. As far as the future is concerned, I will ignore her posts, and hope she will do the same with mine – and if she doesn’t, OK, I can’t be bothered.
So, again, thanks for your replies. Any suggestions how to solve the problem? A Hitler admirer in the highest echelons of US power, able to launch nukes at HIS will! And you can’t remove him from office, unless you want to commit social and financial Hara-kiri – upon the mere attempt. You move against him, and you are of the faintest import, you’ll be lucky if only your name is going to be mud!
Salute guys!
gravenimage says
DFD wrote:
So, any notion of “…the public must be made aware…” – You will be reduced to rubble faster than you can drink a glass of water.
………………………
DFD, I don’t know who you are alluding to. But your impression that Americans would be destroyed if they speak critically of someone publicly lauding Hitler is mistaken.
And no, DFD–I *do not* think you are a Nazi–not for a minute. But you have whitewashed Fascism here a number of times–including here:
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/04/syria-sunni-muslims-murder-126-people-wound-55-in-bomb-attack-targeting-shiite-evacuees#comment-1653694
where you imply that the Nazis were only oppressive when it came to race, but that they were extremely family-friendly and respected the rights of the individual, which I’m afraid was not the case at all.
You have also, in the past, said that we should be careful not to speak negatively of Fascism here because we will drive off neo-Nazis whom we should ally with. I do not consider this a wise strategy at all, to put it mildly.
You are right that Leftists often falsely smear Anti-Jihadists as “Nazis”, which is grotesque. That does *not* mean that Hitler and the Nazis were benignant, though.
In any case, I am very curious to see who you are referring to.
Westman says
Frankly, DFD, I’m more concerned about a non-state actor placing a nuclear device on a cargo train. When one sees train cars going by, covered in graffiti from top to bottom, it is obvious that this is a vulnerable vector into major cities. While attention is focused on airports, other, just as viable, inroads are ignored.
DFD says
Whitewash of Fascism?
==================.
Strange.
I thought that in the link given, namely this: https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/04/syria-sunni-muslims-murder-126-people-wound-55-in-bomb-attack-targeting-shiite-evacuees#comment-1653694
That in there I was comparing three competing, totalitarian ideologies, namely (alphabetically listed) Communism, Fascism/Nazism and Islam. Comparing their respective and relative views, perceptions and practices in reference of one to another.
How that constitutes a whitewash of Fascism/Nazism is beyond my comprehension. But then, I am not ideologically obsessed.
I wonder, if I were to compare three kinds of plagues, diseases, say Cholera, Pest and AIDS. Does that mean I am whitewashing one of them because I am, or others are, healthy?
***Apparently it does…***
———————————.
A most strange kind of logic indeed.
Further:
I am concerned about ordinary people who are badmouthed, labelled at every opportunity by the MSM as neo-Nazis, Nazis, Fascists etc. Because they don’t agree with the MSM propaganda, they think and then commit the most horrible of offenses: They think more and ask questions, then continue to make comparisons and ask even more questions. Then those people begin to look for alternatives. They come to websites such as this – and are labelled the same way! And leave.
It appears that this concern of mine constitutes a plea for the acceptance of neo-Nazis in groups such is this.
***Amazing!***
——————–
I wonder, if somebody else would feel such concerns, would that person receive the same kind of labelling, insinuations and insults?
No, actually not. General hatred needs a lot of inner justification, too uncomfortable. Who said so, who preached that?
So I don’t think so. But some people need to hate, often to get rid of something, to unload, to project something, whatever it is. And they need a target for that. And then that person will be hated, lies and insinuations, falsifications and subtle twists of facts will be applied – of course, practitioners of hate have to justify themselves by inventing or falsifying a reason for their hate. Otherwise it wouldn’t feel good, oh the outrage! That would be missing.
It has however on undeniably positive result for those who love to hate, but need an outlet for this, a target. Just one, otherwise one would not feel so righteous. It makes them feel sooo goood, so righteous. Taking things out of context, ignoring inter-relations, twisting a word here and there.
Fortunately I am not such a person…..
Not that I am surprised about the psychological side of this, that method has been preached, it’s used and its use has been advised long time ago. And once implanted, externally or by an individual itself, it will continue all by itself, it will grow and affect others too. Now who or what promoted such methods, stating that human beings use these all the time for moral self-gratification, in most cases unaware though. The School of Frankfurt, that’s who. Now I remember. Very smart people.
They gave a “good example”, the Bible, a saying from Jesus: ‘Suffer little children unto me.’ And advised to use on Christians, they hate and fear Christianity. Did that take off as one of the parade pieces of anti-Christian hate propaganda or not? Sure did! Converse with anyone who hates Christianity/Christians and it will pop up within minutes. When the anti-Christian campaign began to roll about 50 years ago, this was one of the first to be used, 40 years ago it went into overdrive, practically once a week in every second or third weekly, as well as daily papers, in one connection or another it popped up. A few more Biblical items were pulled in, also out of context, a slight twist here and there, an assumption, a “misunderstanding” – and by now Christianity is being reduced by more than 50% of what it was.
The method works, hatred makes people feel good, that’s why people use it, aware and unaware. And if course, the best part is, any one defending themselves or others, only hardens the views of the hater who in turn will defend himself. And launch one near hysterical attack against the target person or target group, at every opportunity. It becomes an obsession to do so. To warn others, or whatever.
Those Frankfurters were brilliant, in a way. Anyone interested in certain aspects of human nature should study them. You will learn how to manipulate in a negative sense.
***Oh dear!*** Now I have whitewashed Bolshevism and Anarchism! How evil of me….
Finally, two examples, about me for instance:
One: “…You have also, in the past, said that we should be careful not to speak negatively of Fascism here because we will drive off neo-Nazis whom we should ally with…”
I never said that. What I said was that we should turn such people to our cause. Small difference, apparently irrelevant though. Hey, everything to accuse – feels good.
Another: “…You are right that Leftists often falsely smear Anti-Jihadists as “Nazis”, which is grotesque. That does *not* mean that Hitler and the Nazis were benignant, though…”
I never implied that. A complete out of context misrepresentation. Or perhaps the reader is not able to comprehend the entire context, of a presented piece, and its interrelationship.
gravenimage says
DFD wrote:
I am concerned about ordinary people who are badmouthed, labelled at every opportunity by the MSM as neo-Nazis, Nazis, Fascists etc. Because they don’t agree with the MSM propaganda, they think and then commit the most horrible of offenses: They think more and ask questions, then continue to make comparisons and ask even more questions. Then those people begin to look for alternatives. They come to websites such as this – and are labelled the same way! And leave.
It appears that this concern of mine constitutes a plea for the acceptance of neo-Nazis in groups such is this.
***Amazing!***
……………………………
You described such people as “Hitlerists” who regard the bloody mass murderer Anders Breivik as their hero. The idea that considering such people to be neo-Nazis is “amazing” is disingenuous, to say the least.
More:
General hatred needs a lot of inner justification, too uncomfortable. Who said so, who preached that?
So I don’t think so. But some people need to hate, often to get rid of something, to unload, to project something, whatever it is. And they need a target for that. And then that person will be hated, lies and insinuations, falsifications and subtle twists of facts will be applied – of course, practitioners of hate have to justify themselves by inventing or falsifying a reason for their hate. Otherwise it wouldn’t feel good, oh the outrage! That would be missing.
……………………………
The implication that condemning the horrors of Fascism represents some sort of psychological disorder is grotesque.
More:
The School of Frankfurt, that’s who. Now I remember. Very smart people.
……………………………
Considering Hitler to have been a bad person is not Frankfurt School propaganda. It is something that every decent person should agree on.
More:
They gave a “good example”, the Bible, a saying from Jesus: ‘Suffer little children unto me.’ And advised to use on Christians, they hate and fear Christianity. Did that take off as one of the parade pieces of anti-Christian hate propaganda or not? Sure did! Converse with anyone who hates Christianity/Christians and it will pop up within minutes.
……………………………
Where do anti-Christians use Jesus’s love of children and his patience with them against him? I have never heard of this.
More:
Finally, two examples, about me for instance:
One: “…You have also, in the past, said that we should be careful not to speak negatively of Fascism here because we will drive off neo-Nazis whom we should ally with…”
I never said that. What I said was that we should turn such people to our cause. Small difference, apparently irrelevant though. Hey, everything to accuse – feels good.
……………………………
Semantics. I do not believe Anti-Jihadists need to “turn (neo-Nazis) to our cause”, nor that we should censor ourselves so that we don’t say anything negative about Nazis and Fascism, lest we insult such “Hitlerists”.
You may, of course, disagree. Good luck.
More:
Another: “…You are right that Leftists often falsely smear Anti-Jihadists as “Nazis”, which is grotesque. That does *not* mean that Hitler and the Nazis were benignant, though…”
I never implied that. A complete out of context misrepresentation. Or perhaps the reader is not able to comprehend the entire context, of a presented piece, and its interrelationship.
……………………………
Again, good luck. You may believe it is necessary to tread on eggshells regarding the supposedly sensitive subject of Fascist savagery; I and other good people do not.
DFD says
PS: Isn’t Trump. He’s not in the same league at all. He’d wish though. Next to this guy Trump is a newcomer, nouveau riche…
gravenimage says
Thank you, as always, for your kind words, Wellington.
Leon Degney says
DFT, you obviously have a few too many loose wires and more than enough short circuts for me to even consider replying to your ratbag question. I’m sure there are many others who feel the same.
Jeanette says
Because you have withheld the name of this person, this is a riddle, not just a question.
And a riddle is a game.
I hate games.
Who is the person to whom you refer?
Peggy says
I don’t think it’s a riddle. He only wants us to say what we would do about such a person before he discloses his name. He is not asking us to guess who it is.
I think I know why he wants the answer before he discloses the name because our answer might be very different if we knew who it was.
DFD says
Dear Peggy
Thank you!
***EXACTLY!***
=============.
***PRECISELY!***
==============.
Spot on dear Lady, spot on.
gravenimage says
Well, I’ve already said.
Carolyne says
I suggest that it is DFD who might need the assistance of a mental health expert Sounds rather paranoid to me.
DFD says
My oh my: “Lose wires, paranoid, in need of a shrink….”
Amusing. I was going to dissolve this today, but given these comments, I will do so tomorrow.
I just have to hear what other comments there might be – or may not be.
So, tomorrow you’ll get the name, plus an explanation what I actually wanted to find out – and did. Aren’t you all sure of yourselves…. Hmh.
Peggy says
I believe I know what you are doing. You don’t want our prejudice to dictate how we would deal with a person who fits that description.
As much as I disagree with this person’s assessment of Hitler my priority would be to get rid of NWO and if this person can deliver then I would gladly support him.
Whatever his belief of Hitler is, it can’t make any difference to anyone now but if he truly believes in kicking the Globalists out then that would make a difference to the world.
I am sticking my neck out here and could get attacked from all sides but without knowing who it is, I am evaluating the good verses the bad.
DFD says
Dear Peggy,
You said: “I believe I know what you are doing. You don’t want our prejudice to dictate how we would deal with a person who fits that description….” Once again, ABSOLUTELY so! 100% spot on.
And yes, you are sticking your neck out! Brave Lady!
This site is practically like any other, except for the Central and eastern European AntiJihad sites, it is as politically correct and as mainstream as it gets. You may as well read a major, mainstream newspaper. Except where Islam is concerned. Otherwise the thought pattern is identical. Witness here the endless naïve comments such as: “They (the “elites”) are stupid … don’t they understand … they ought to be educated in the base texts of Islam…” Stupid? Lacking understanding? The so called “elites” took power through the hardest school possible: Politics! And they are stupid, they haven’t got a clue? The base texts? They know exactly the ones they want to use and what for. If they are so stupid, why don’t the smart people just replace them? Should be easy if they are such fools.
Think about this,
Bismarck: “There is no coincidence in politics.”
FD Roosevelt: “In politics everything is planned.”
————————————————————–.
Have you not noticed that you will be immediately slandered and labelled the moment you put the actual system into question? Or even parts thereof. If you are called a conspiracy nut, you’re lucky. Useful slander word, “conspiracy”, no? And equally useful is “debunked”. With two words a person is discredited, labelled, and a subject matter is completely deflected, moved above suspicion, or even removed completely. Those smart alecs who fall for such terminology are so intelligent and wise, that they don’t wonder why there are endless miles of corridors with boxed up and sealed documents, up to the ceiling. Off limits for the public for a hundred years, some even for 150 years. Many docs relating to the second world war are still off limits. Do you really believe that all of these are secret military developments, to be hidden from the enemy? For 50 years and longer? Even for gov officials there are access restrictions, that’s called “On a need to know basis only” – or simply “Secret to top secret”. And so on, and so forth…
Incidentally, as far as your believe about NWO is concerned, you are right and wrong. Simultaneously. There is no single ‘master plan’, not possible, but there are several groups struggling and manipulating for supremacy. The three primary ones, also forming subsections within themselves, are in no particular order: Internationalists with a socialist/communist foundation. Essentially headed by Soros. Next, internationalists with a feudalist foundation. (Insert: That means free market, i.e., no government control. Consider the result: If anything, from your bare necessities to your pension, or luxuries is managed by entities not bound to any governmental rules, you have ***no government***. The government has become superfluous for it has no powers to interfere, or regulate, with anything of import concerning your life. Simplified into a nutshell that is. Well, they can regulate the traffic, and similar matters). Then you have the third main group, the Muslims, again a group utterly opposed to any law and society outside sharia. No need to go into details here.
None of these groups remotely wants peace or war, doesn’t really matter. From Socialists to Anarchists: “From Chaos springs new order!” Feudalists or “free” market/capitalists: ‘Rebuilding work and employment = boom times. And many things need replacing.’ (not a quote, but a comment by me to facilitate). Muslims, obvious.
This website? Full of taqyians and manipulators, like most others. And real shit stirrers. Hallmark: They make a comment/post, and then run like rats! But proclaim themselves “to be aloof of the ”’ragings”’ of the replies.” Rats who cannot answer for themselves, because they produce and spread pathetic garbage, which is what they expound.
Here is one example, one of those guys stated the following: “…The Koran and Mein Kampf are identical. {Then a new paragraph} …And that is a -FACT- …” Of course, total and utter bull. Any politically educated person who read both books, knows there isn’t a word in these two, which they have even remotely in common. Not one. All subject matters are vastly different. The only common thematic, to an extent, is anti-Semitism, the Koran contains more of that then Mein Kampf. Though, again of a completely different nature. Dr. Bill Warner made an exact, precise comparison, from word count to percentage ratio of these two books in reference thereto. Does such nonsense matter? To a shit stirrer, no! He runs like a rat when taken to task. Instead proclaims himself to be a proud kaffir, or similar such bragging terms. If such guys are not full scale ***Masoods*** then Santa Clause is a Martian! And his supporters, or team mates, commentate with support, ever noticed that? Hitler, LOL! On this, and similar sites, all you have to do is mention nasty Adolf, and you have achieved 100% deflection of the subject matter concerned. Then there is the ‘local thought police’, ready to chastise you severely if you dare to deviate from the mainstream media or, utmost outrage’, if you dare to criticise or highlight the bullshit pumped out by such Masoods – well, as Mohammed said to the original Masood: “War is deceit!”
On the other hand, such news groups are also fun, brother, sorry: Sister, can you wind ’em up with Hitler and Nazis – and they never ever notice for a second. They take themselves so serious, even Daffy Duck would be speechless.
So hang on, and keep your opinion(s). They are mostly right!
Salute dear Lady.
PS: If you want to understand a lot more got to: http://www.schillerinstitute.org/fid_91-96/921_frankfurt.html – It’s about the ‘School of Frankfurt’. I believe this will interest you very much
PPS: You may find this interesting, although completely unrelated to the matter at hand. Namely this: News groups are nothing new. They existed already, and had their first hay day in the mid 19th to early 20th century. They were called “Pen Societies”. The primary differences are that today it’s electronic and thus a much larger level of participation. The other difference is that style and manners have disappeared. Interesting titbit I hope.
DFD says
***REVELATION! THE NAME***
=========================.
Originally I wanted to hear to what lengths you would go in your outrage, a high ranking (I didn’t even mention a president) US politician with nuclear power, who declared admiration for nasty Adolf. The response? Everybody winds like a worm, wanting to make the public aware of… Or simply denying reality. Proclaiming that cannot be, etc. Hmh. No one even **dared** to suggest ***how to deal with this***.
What was equally hilarious is, that not a single poster recognized one of the best known, and still one of the most popular, American presidents – yet, when one reads your posts, you are all super patriots. So much for your own history. I was expecting lots of things, and of course, that included the name calling, insinuations, and all that. But this?
Instead of actually giving it a few moments of thought, for what is in the mainstream media’s world, and/or in the mindset of most JW readers a problem most horrific, you resorted to kindergarten behaviour “The name, the name! Give us the name, so that we can pin the tail on the donkey!” Even though I pointed out explicitly that the name is secondary, it will be given. But primarily, or even exclusively, a solution was asked for, to what for JihadWatch readers must be horrifying. There were only two reasonable responses, namely those from Westman and Wellington.
Apart from that, pathetic name calling, insinuations, Nazi, Fascist… Lol! Wires lose, seeking attention, needing expert medical help… Most amusing indeed.
***BUT*** my highest compliments to the two commentators who actually saw right through it, firstly Mac-101. He recognized JFK immediately. He also noted that I avoided any time frame whatsoever, and drew the right conclusion. Talk about being sharp and on the ball. Again, compliments. The same compliment is true for Peggy. Though she didn’t know whom I was referring to, Peggy understood the purpose of this, completely.
And to you Mac specifically:
How did you know? Nobody here grasped it remotely, instead I was labelled, called names, and hilariously, one commentator **insisted** I was referring to Trump. Oh Brother! Comparing John F. Kennedy and Trump…!!! What a riot! One being a man of integrity, before whom the Russians bowed, and quit. The other? Breaks all his promises, gets thrown out by the Chinese, is being cold shouldered by the Russians, then shoots missiles at a meaningless target in a desert country. With a about a third of the missiles missing their targets completely, the base being nearly emptied beforehand, and approx two days later the base is operational again. All this results in the Russian head of State, Putin, declaring that he will defend Russia’s ally, Syria, if that happens again. Meaning war, localized or fully blown. His reply was ultimate. The other result? Trump receives congratulations from none other than Merkel and Erdogan!!!! Yes, from Merkel and Erdogan…. Well, at least not from Soros himself. And all that whilst the commentators are proclaiming that he has sent a strong message – fantastic. What do they expect? That the Russian president will say to his people: “Oh we got a message. Let’s run away!” Very funny. Who wrote that script? A drunken penguin? And the commentators here confuse that man with John F. Kennedy – just incredible. I couldn’t believe it.
Mac, I am burning to know how you knew it at once! Granted, I didn’t make it too difficult, but you even knew it had to be Kennedy, no other option. HOW?! By now I wonder, if I had attached JFK’s photo, would they have figured it? Or perhaps commented that this had to be the worst picture of Trump ever. Like: “He doesn’t even look like Trump.”
I didn’t get nearly what I expected, but it was far worse than what I feared as a worst case. Or hoped for? I have to figure that myself.
Nevertheless, you were a riot, thank you all!
———————————————————–
PS: Especially for Westman & Wellington. Thanks for remaining in the realm of the credible, and actually considering it. In case you wonder how I came to this, so do I. On the other hand, you know that I have occasionally a streak of “whacky” and even black humor. Correction: Pitch black! First I wanted to make a joke, perhaps winding some posters up. But the more I thought about it… Anyway, thanks you two for the credibility.
And that again, in particular, to Peggy. Fully understanding the question and the purpose.
Well, what kind of replies will this now generate – I wonder if any. I am still sceptical.
gravenimage says
DFD wrote:
***BUT*** my highest compliments to the two commentators who actually saw right through it, firstly Mac-101. He recognized JFK immediately.
…………………………………
DFD, you said that this person gave a public speech where he “stated that Hitler was a good man, and that future historians will have to work hard to understand Hitler’s genius and that his system of government and political ideology was the best for Germany”.
The problem is that John Kennedy never said this. He made a private diary entry which reads:
Hitler “had boundless ambition for his country which rendered him a menace to the peace of the world, but he had a mystery about him in the way he lived and in the manner of his death that will live and grow after him,” Kennedy wrote. He observed that Hitler “had in him the stuff of which legends are made” and predicted that “within a few years Hitler will emerge from the hatred that surrounds him now as one of the most significant figures who ever lived.”
http://www.salon.com/2017/03/23/john-f-kennedy-once-wrote-that-adolf-hitler-had-the-stuff-of-which-legends-are-made/
Well, *of course* Hitler was a significant figure–Time Magazine named him Person of the Year in 1938.
He was responsible for the deaths of up to 80 million people. *Of course* that is significant–how could it not be? That does not mean it was *good*.
The bloody “Prophet” Muhammed was an immensely significant figure, as well. One could make a case for his being the most significant individual in all of world history after Jesus Christ. This does *not* mean that his significance was in any way positive.
And noting that Hitler was charismatic–dangerously so–is something that has been noted by huge numbers of people, those who supported Hitler, and those who did not. It has been noted many times by historians, as well.
Did you miss the part where Kennedy declared that Hitler had been a “menace to the peace of the world”?
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Another problem, he is very rich, so is his family, and they are firmly entrenched, nay, they are part of the financial and political hierarchy. Also, you can’t get him out of office, you can’t just remove him; very, very complicated because of his position. And he is a ***darling of the Pentagon*** – he is one of theirs by all accounts…
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Not only does this passage *not* say what you claim, but it is a private diary entry–it was unknown to any but himself and (possibly) a few confidants. For good or ill, this was not known to the public at all.
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They’ll reduce you to mud, if you were relevant, they have that kind of power. On top of that, he’s also relatively young for a man of such power, whilst in addition he also has a considerable public following. Big problem, no?
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John Kennedy’s diary was published in the 1990s. This passage was not hidden, nor were people prevented from talking about it, as you appear to believe.
I cited the article in Salon, which itself cites coverage by CBS News.
This issue has been covered elsewhere, as well–often critically–with no attempts to ‘reduce anyone to mud’.
And yes–JFK’s father Joseph Kennedy was antisemitic and openly counseled appeasement of Hitler when he was US Ambassador to the Court of St. James before WWII. This was not a secret either–not at the time, and not when John Kennedy was running for or serving as president.
But John Kennedy, famously, *fought* against Fascism. He was, in fact, a decorated war hero. This went a long way, needless to say, to dispelling the ugly aura of his father’s views.
I never judge people by their family–I come from a family of low level criminals, alcoholics, and drug addicts–but I am none of those things.
Kennedy never publicly lauded Fascism, nor did he ever espouse Fascist views or attempt to implement Fascist policies when he was president. From this diary entry, it would be difficult to make a case for his holding such views privately, either.
I am not an entirely uncritical fan of John Kennedy and all of his policies, nor of every aspect of his character–for instance, he was a notorious womanizer.
But it is calumny to paint him as an admirer of Hitler and his policies in Nazi Germany.
DFD says
Graven
How stupid of me! I actually think that people mean what they say. Of course, they need others to tell what it is they mean, they are such jibbering idiots.
Well, I don’t think that most people are jibbering idiots and need somebody to explain the meaning of they say. Particularly not people in that kind of position. and with such background. So, in my silliness I will continue to believe that people mean what they say, particularly so when they write it down.
Maybe you should listen to this speeches, watch his gestures and body lingo… Plenty on you tube.
gravenimage says
No–I don’t believe Kennedy used Fascist “gestures and body lingo”, either–whatever those might be. I’ve watched plenty of his speeches.
If you are referring to something other than his diary entry and can actually cite a speech where John Kennedy praised Hitler, please do so.
gravenimage says
Still waiting for those clips of JFK Sieg Heiling in speeches from the South Lawn…
DFD says
Rather pathetic. he was man enough to mean what he said. In the interview as well as in his diaries. And I don’t think that he was so stupid to behave like a little girl, and be so specific in his diaries so as to expose himself in the future. His speech about NWOs and secret societies was an eye opener. Many think that it was this speech which was his death warrant. After all, a practically identical speech, though vastly more extensive, and was held by…
In case you have to difficulties when somebody is using the term ‘great’ without a qualifier, it is meant as stated. Viz. Great
Here is an example, from my profession, therefore unrelated, thus neutral (though, I am sure you can take that out off context too and attack as per your desires 🙂 )…: “The great theoretical physicist James Clerk Maxwell (1831-1879), discoverer of the laws of electrodynamics, wrote that “To those who study the progress of exact science, the common spinning-top is a symbol of the labors and the perplexities of men.””
No qualifier. Conversely, if reference is made to Summerlan the great, only Muslims call him great, without qualifier. Everybody else uses qualifiers, such as great evil, etc.
Apparently it makes you feel good to make assumptions, then take statements out of the overall context and its resultant interdependencies. And then to attack or judge the person who produced the overall contextual piece. That is your problem, not mine.
You had problems knowing who Tzun was, assumed Masood to be identical with Mohammed (Oh dear…) – well, I was glad I could help.
As far as I am concerned, I made my point with this thread, and had my views and perceptions confirmed, with very few exceptions. Namely Westman & Wellington, though both unable to pin point, to identify.
Then there was Mac-101, very sharp, knowledgeable, knew spot on whom I was talking about. And stated that it couldn’t be anybody else. And finally, great honors to Peggy! She did not know whom, but she ***understood the purpose*** of the question – or game that I played. Which seems to have been completely lost on…
The rest? Personal attacks and innuendo, demonstrating their abilities and understanding – but for me:
It was fun!
========
Well, the comments of everybody else. Including yours.
So, as far as I am concerned, I wish you well, and
GOOD BYE !!!
============
Oh, and one more thing, there are actual comparisons in the speech gestics of these two. If you want to know more about such matters, search on visual speech emphasis, Physical speech expressions, etc. There are some very interesting studies – for those who want to learn.
gravenimage says
DFD wrote:
In case you have to difficulties when somebody is using the term ‘great’ without a qualifier, it is meant as stated. Viz. Great
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Except that JFK didn’t. He wrote “significant”, which is not the same as “great”.
For instance, I consider Osama bin Laden–God help us–to be a very significant figure in recent history–I do *not* consider him to have been great.
As for not recognizing “Tzun”, he is commonly known here as Sun Tzu–the only reason for my not identifying him. I’m not certain who “Summerlan” is, either–probably the same person as Tamerlane. Perhaps these alternative spellings are more common in Britain. I am familiar with many of them–my mother is English–but not with all of them, since I live in the United States.
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His speech about NWOs and secret societies was an eye opener. Many think that it was this speech which was his death warrant.
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Really, this was mostly about the threat of the Soviet Union:
https://sites.google.com/site/themattprather/miscellaneous/jfk-conspiracy-speech-context-and-analysis
It was mostly much later that this was believed to be about conspiracies involving some NWO–a term that was not even in use in the early 1960s.
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Oh, and one more thing, there are actual comparisons in the speech gestics of these two. If you want to know more about such matters, search on visual speech emphasis, Physical speech expressions, etc. There are some very interesting studies – for those who want to learn.
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I have watched many speeches by both Hitler and John Kennedy–their gestures have never appeared to be very similar to me.
But if you believe you can find subtle similarities, what would that signify? The two men were not similar in ideology or leadership styles, to put it mildly–nor in their effect on world history.
This was a whole lot of nothing. You may believe that your views on Fascism are supported by those of a highly respected American president, but this is not borne out by the facts.
DFD says
You have no ***flippin** idea whatsoever what my views on fascism are. You just make assumptions, feelgood stuff, so as to be able to ‘lecture’, to condemn, generally, to feel good.
EmHotep says
Where is Mortimer, the big time idiot?? Mortimer claimed that islam is a RACE and blamed all Turks are muslim??? He even dared to say Turkey must be divided bla bla.
JW&Robert you must decide whether islam is a race or religious cult and kick out commenters like “idiot” mortimer.
If you keep doing the same thing you will gain enemies not friends.
Ps. fuck you mortimer 🙂
gravenimage says
EmHotep, I have never seen Mortimer claim that Islam is a race.
While I do disagree with his idea that Muslims can be “deprogrammed”–I don’t believe this has ever worked–he is a staunch Anti-Jihadist and respected contributor here.
I believe he did note that Turkey is majority-Muslim. I’m afraid that this is the case. According to polls, 99.8% of Turkish citizens identify as Muslim.
And your threat to Robert Spencer is an odd one. Mr. Spencer has noted many times here that Islam is not a race.
Jeanette says
I agree with everything graven says, and would like to add that resorting to potty-mouth comments is NEVER wise or effective.
EmHotep says
Please read my answer to Wellington. If Mortimer keeps talking about my race I will keep swearing and devalue his islamic arguments. (I know islam better than him)
Dear Wellington when I say something I talk on evidence, please read the below given comment from “the racist mortimer”. He is officially my enemy; If he was next to me everything would be different. If he wants to dismantle a country he should give back the US to the real owners “American Indians” which were killed by barbaric invaders. He should look back the dirty history of his own country. We are a superior race our history goes back to 6000 bc. So he should stand up when he talks to a Turk. So to me he is a fucking idiot racist bloody bastard.
mortimer says
April 12, 2017 at 10:15 am
Turkey should have been dismantled in 1920 and divided among several states, rather than allowing it to return to grandiosity with pompous asses like Erdogan.
Turkish history is a series of genocides. The Kurds are next. Then the Europeans after that.
NO ONE SHOULD UNDERESTIMATE ERDOGAN’S SABRE RATTLING.
EmHotep says
Plus I’ve learnt the potty-mouth from Mr. Donald Trump 🙂
Wellington says
Mortimer is no idiot, EmHotep. Quite the contrary, he is very sharp on sundry issues related to Islam. Often, to his credit, very much detailed sharp.
And while it is absurd in the extreme to claim Islam is a race, this is EXACTLY what Muslim apologists often accuse critics of Islam of when they criticize the belief system which is Islam. So, as Cogito Ergo Sum suggested long ago here at JW, take these stupid, silly, deceitful people at their word, for argument’s sake, and accept that Islam is a race (absurd as this is) and then point out all the hateful diatribes against other “races” like the Christians and Jews to be found in the Koran (e.g., Sura 98:6), hadiths and sira.
In short, whatever route an apologist for Islam pursues, take that route and defeat that person with their own argument. No quarter. None. Ever. This forms part of the path to victory, I would contend, over the absolutely worst religion, no contest here, ever created by man.
Oh yeah, no quarter. No way out.
EmHotep says
Dear Wellington when I say something I talk on evidence, please read the below given comment from “the racist mortimer”. He is officially my enemy; If he was next to me everything would be different. If he wants to dismantle a country he should give back the US to the real owners “American Indians” which were killed by barbaric invaders. He should look back the dirty history of his own country. We are a superior race our history goes back to 6000 bc. So he should stand up when he talks to a Turk. So to me he is a fucking idiot racist bloody bastard.
mortimer says
April 12, 2017 at 10:15 am
Turkey should have been dismantled in 1920 and divided among several states, rather than allowing it to return to grandiosity with pompous asses like Erdogan.
Turkish history is a series of genocides. The Kurds are next. Then the Europeans after that.
NO ONE SHOULD UNDERESTIMATE ERDOGAN’S SABRE RATTLING.
gravenimage says
EmHotep wrote:
We are a superior race our history goes back to 6000 bc. So he should stand up when he talks to a Turk.
……………………………..
EmHotep, there is a great deal to respect about the history of Anatolia–for one thing it was, as you note, one of the great cradles of civilization. (I will leave aside the issue here regarding Turks and Anatolia not being precisely synonymous).
But no–I do not consider the Turks to be racially superior at all. This is *not* a slap at Turkish people, by any means–I do not consider my own race (American; English, Welsh, and French, by historic background) to be racially superior, either.
I think it is fine for people to be inspired by the history of their people, but anyone should be judged by their individual character, not by their race, ethnicity, or nation.
EmHotep says
Dear Graven, I can’t handle someone saying my country should be dismantled, as if it’s a lego.. There are also wrong accusation of genocide which is not proved or validated we firmly deny all of the accusations who says genocide is a liar and …
What is this? are we talking about jihad and islam or a race? I don’t want to see him talking about Turks, or I will keep swearing at him. Otherwise I can’t relax. He is a racist piece of …
When we say Turkic People;
Turanians
The Turanid race
An Iranian ethnic group mentioned in the Avesta; see Turan
Any historical people of Transoxiana or present-day Turkistan
Obsolete term for any historical Ural–Altaic people, in particular:
The Turkic peoples during Turkic expansion
The Huns described by the Europeans and Chinese
The Mongols, who are distantly related to the Turks
Some sources have mentioned the Japanese and Korean peoples
The Sami or Lapps of northern Scandinavia
Finno-Ugric peoples like the Finns, Estonians, and Hungarians
The Dravidian people of southern India were theorized to have Turanian ancestors
Speakers of Caucasian languages
Non-Semitic and non-Indo-European peoples of the Late Bronze Age were theorized to have Turanian ancestors; see Hurro-Urartian and Etruscans
The term formerly used for the Caucasian Avars
Hungary are also Turkic people, Finland also from same roots.
So mortimer is a racist idiot.
gravenimage says
EmHotep wrote:
There are also wrong accusation of genocide which is not proved or validated we firmly deny all of the accusations who says genocide is a liar and …
………………………………..
Dear EmHotep, Turkey has indeed been involved in genocide in the past. Remember the Armenian Genocide? Really, it was a genocide against Christians in general–Armenians, Greeks, Assyrians, and Levantines.
In the late 19th century there were a couple of million Christians in Turkey; today there are just a little over a hundred thousand remaining.
I don’t imagine for a minute that you yourself would ever have had anything to do with this–but as for history, this is amply chronicled.
EmHotep says
There was no Armenian genocide, I disagree with the theory of genocide. It was during WW1 and people died. We have the Ottoman Archives open to everyone basically;
The Tehcir Law; (Resettlement)
1 The military measures against those opposing government orders, national defense, and the protection of peace and against those organizing armed attacks and resistance, and killing rebels during aggression and uprising in wartime,
2.the transfer and resettlement on a single basis or en masse, the people living in villages and towns who are found to be engaged in espionage or treason,
3.the temporary law’s effect and expiration, and
4.the definition of the responsible parties (application).
So during the resettlement people died, also 300.000 Turkish people died because of Armenian gangs. But it wasn’t a genocide like Germans did to Jews. This is a disputed matter some countries named it as genocide but some did not.
I accept it was a very bad period, I wish it would never have happened. Same as Iraq where US killed 1 million people with false accusations, do we name it a genocide?
Still I am feeling sorry for the Armenians who died during those terrible times. I want to leave it to historians, because I can not answer everything, but I can only say this is what we learned at the school. Also because of law we can not call it a genocide even if we want to…
gravenimage says
EmHotep wrote:
There was no Armenian genocide, I disagree with the theory of genocide. It was during WW1 and people died. We have the Ottoman Archives open to everyone basically;
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EmHotep, the Armenian Genocide did not happen just during WWI. It began in the last decade of the 19th century, and proceeded in waves, the worst periods being about 1895-1899, 1914-1916, and again in the early 1920s.
It began under the Ottoman Empire and continued under the “Young Truks” and under Atatürk. It did not come to an end until the horrific destruction of Smyrna (modern-day Izmir) in 1922.
Up to one and a half million Christians–Armenians, Greeks, Assyrians, and Levantines were killed during this period–men, women, and children. The idea that all of these people were involved in “espionage” does not hold water, I’m afraid.
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So during the resettlement people died, also 300.000 Turkish people died because of Armenian gangs.
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Muslims always claim to be victims–this same false claim is being used to justify violence against the Copts in Egypt, and is just as plausible.
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But it wasn’t a genocide like Germans did to Jews. This is a disputed matter some countries named it as genocide but some did not.
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Most of the civilized world recognizes the Armenian Genocide, EmHotep. Moreover, Hitler used it as a model for the Holocaust, saying, “who today remembers the Armenians?”.
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I accept it was a very bad period, I wish it would never have
happened. Same as Iraq where US killed 1 million people with false accusations, do we name it a genocide?
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EmHotep, the idea that US sanctions killed one million Iraqis is debunked here:
https://psmag.com/the-iraq-sanctions-myth-5b05f6712df5
Still I am feeling sorry for the Armenians who died during those terrible times. I want to leave it to historians, because I can not answer everything, but I can only say this is what we learned
at the school. Also because of law we can not call it a genocide even if we want to…
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EmHotep, don’t you find it concerning that this cannot even be discussed in Turkey?
Just a little over a century ago, Turkey still had a large Christian minority–today, there are no more than 120,000 survivors in the whole country.
But certainly, Turkey is not alone in slaughtering its Infidel population–this is happening right now in Pakistan, in Iraq, in Syria, and in many other parts of Dar-al-Islam. This is what Islam does.
Carolyne says
Last night I saw a discussion between Anne Coulter and Tucker Carlson discussing that UC Berkley had cancelled Ms. Coulter’s speech. This kind of censorship is common with Liberals and their institutions. I have seen that on this forum, such censorship does not exist and there are many posts with alternative views. For you to suggest that Mr.Spencer remove Mortimer from the forum is a kind of Muslim oriented philosophy i.e. to just remove utterances which do not agree with yours.
I have known Turks intimately over the years and I can assure you that as a general rule they, and you, are in no way superior to Westerners, although some of you might be superior to some other Muslims, i.e. Somalis and Afghans.
You were given a democracy by Kemal Ataturk and you have now squandered that precious gift by installing a fanatical Muslim dictator. All of the progress you have made in recent years will be destroyed by the Islamic philosophy as it has been in every Muslim country in the world.
Your criticism of others here on the forum is a typical Islamic attack, with little worth.
EmHotep says
You will lose, you are just bunch of racist people. Your phobia will kill you. We are Turanians not muslims.
gravenimage says
We are Turanians not muslims.
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99.8% of Turks identify as Muslim. Ethnicity is not religion.
Peggy says
Are these your true colours?
gravenimage says
Well, that is *one disturbing video*.
I don’t read Turkish, but “Türkler Geliyor” means “the Turks are coming”. It includes maps that cover not just Turkey, but a big chunk of Asia, as well as *Greece*. This is full of threats to conquer Infidels.
And it features the image of the grey wolf–the Grey Wolves are a nationalist Turkish terrorist group that has carried out mass murders against democrats and religious minorities.
By the way, you can find “Türkler Geliyor” videos all over the web, including ones screaming “Allahü Ekber!”–I doubt I have to translate *that*.
It is heavily associated with the revival of the Ottoman Empire.
The idea that resisting such Muslim aggression is “racist” is ridiculous.
Is it the case that even “secularists” adhere to violence against those held to “insult Turkishness”–which is illegal in Turkey? Of course, this is just a thinly-veiled version of Islamic “blasphemy laws”.
gravenimage says
Somebody wrote:
Dear Graven, this is what I was trying to explain, in the history the Turks had 16 Empires. Ottoman was one of them and it was multicultural with majority of islam. Turks was poisoned by islam on the 10th century. But, before that for many thousand of years religion of Turks were Tengrism.
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Somebody, the 10th century was a long time ago. Most Turks have been Muslims for a millenium.
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The map from the adriatic sea till the great china wall is a map of Turkish people who speak the same/similar language. We are not only the country of Turkey but 350.000.000 people. For example Hungary and Turkey are from same race, they both lost their Turkic identity and one became Christian the other one Muslim.
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Somebody, the map in the video EmHotep linked to includes Greece. Greece suffered under Muslim conquest for centuries–and no, its people are not ethnic Turks.
And it is hard to interpret a martial video screaming “The Turks are Coming!” as merely an academic lesson as to where Turkic peoples live.
And Hungary was threatened by Muslim conquest for hundreds of years–I very much doubt that they would welcome the specter of that happening again, whether it would reunite them in some sort of pan-Turkish empire or not.
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Also Grey Wolf originally comes from the Ergenekon Epic, it represents the Turkish Race. However, the organisation of grey wolves which was created in the 1980’s is an ultra nationalist muslim org. They are really stupid because they use islam and pan-Turkism which are against each other.
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Yes–I am familiar with this foundational myth, Somebody. But there is no doubt that this imagery has been used to threaten non-Muslims.
“The Turks are Coming!” was used to strike fear in Europeans over coastal slave raids for centuries.
“Mamma li Turchi!” (Mamma, the Turks are Coming!) is still a frightening term in Italy.
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That is our main problem after the 10th century islam poisoned a great race and now we can’t clean it. Actually Atatürk tried to give back our true identity, because during ottoman times Turks was second class citizens and non of the sultans married with a Turkish women.
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It is difficult to consider Muslim Turks to have been “second class citizens” at a time when Christians were suffering genocide.
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Atatürk tried to separate the ummah establishment from the real Turk identity. So he converted our alphabet from arabic to Turkish/latin alphabet. He banned arabic ezan and islamic clothing. He tried countless measures against islam even executed 100s of imams. But after he passed away in 1938, around 1950 some idiot became prime minister like erdogan and changed many things back to arabic.
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Yes–I am aware of Atatürk’s generally salubrious policies. Turkey came close to becoming a first-world nation under his aegis. I am also sadly familiar with his successors re-Islamization of Turkey–especially under Erdogan.
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This is why when I say not all Turks are muslim I mean it. In the last referendum even Erdogan said who votes NO they are kafirs 49% of the people said No, unofficially it was 53 % No but his gang stolen our votes. You can see in the below given picture who voted yes and who voted no.
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Somebody, in polls 99.8% of Turks identify as Muslim–that is a not inconsiderable figure.
As for Erdogan pronouncing anyone who voted against his power-grab a “kafir”, this should not surprise. Muslims are always declaring other Muslims to be “infidels” or “apostates”. There is even an official tenet for this–Takfir, whereby Muslims can be declared non-Muslim or “insufficiently Islamic”, so that they may be treated like unbelievers–including murdered.
There are few things more Islamic than declaring Takfir on other Muslims.
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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C94N9UrXoAAsghv.jpg
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Thanks for that map–very telling, and not a surprise. And I do know that the referendum granting Erdogan sweeping dictatorial powers was losing–albeit narrowly–when authorities pulled the plug on news coverage. Until they declared it won, at least. Certainly, this is suspicious *at best*.
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Additional info for the real Turks:
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Yes–I am familiar with Turanism and pan-Turkism, and Atatürk as its most famous and most successful proponent.
Of course, this did nothing to end the Armenian Genocide, since Armenians, Greeks, Assyrian, and Levantine Christians were now considered “impure” ethnically non-Turkish peoples as well as Infidels.
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I just want people to understand we are fighting islam in a “muslim country” with additional 4 million Syrian refugees. When the huge country like US accepts 1500 refugees you can see the screams. If we lose our fight against erdogan everybody including EU will lose it.
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God knows I wish Secularlists in Turkey the best–and I very much agree that if the referendum stands it will be disastrous for Turkey, for Europe, and for the whole of the West.
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Dear Graven I’ve prepared and send a very long explanation of what is Turk, and when some of them had to accept islam. But unfortunately it did not pass the censor here.
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Somebody, you are mistaken. A very long post–especially one with multiple links–does not always post immediately. I have had this happen many times myself.
This has absolutely *nothing* to do with the content of your comments–Jihad Watch is not set up to read comments as they are posted.
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I don’t care about JW but care about your opinions.
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Thank you so much, Somebody. But note that Jihad Watch *is* your ally against Erdogan and the re-Islamization of Turkey–just look at the stories about this that have been covered here.
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I also forgot to save it so bad luck.
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Your comments *did* post–there was just a delay, as there sometimes is.
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Simply seculars who try to save our people from the ummah ideology because it doesn’t belong to us. Erdogan and his ideology supports ummah and doesn’t even mention the Turks.
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Unfortunately, it seems that many Turks do indeed take Islam seriously, and have for many hundreds of years–including destroying the Byzantine Empire and much of eastern Europe in its name at one point.
Also, Erdogan’s promises to re-Islamize Turkey has made him *very* popular in some quarters. This is why he has been effective leader of Turkey since 2002.
Of course, there *are* those who oppose his policies–Secularists such as yourself and EmHotep. I am glad to see it.
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The map is a map of Turkish speaking countries called Turan. It includes christian, jew, muslim, but most importantly Tengrism Turks. I hope my other comment passes and you will see what I was trying to say.
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I’m glad you feel that way, Somebody–but not all Turks have. Certainly, there were those during the Armenian Genocide who specifically considered Christians and Jews to be non-Turks, and considered their presence in Turkey to be ‘polluting’ that nation.
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Your comment is awaiting moderation.
What is this ??? Who is making my comment wait?
…………………………
Somebody, whenever you post anything containing more than two links, your comment is moderated. I have had this happen myself–generally, I try to keep links to two per post to save Marc Louis more work. I don’t always remember, though, and so I get that message.
I have seen it with the comments of other posters before they are moderated, as well. This is, I believe, just an anti-spamming function–it says nothing about the content of your post at all.
gravenimage says
Somebody wrote:
Dear Gravenimage, thank you very much for your understanding and help. Do you know it is so sad that a country relatively sane country before, is falling in front of our eyes and we can only watch it because of the dictator.
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Yes, Somebody–I am terribly alarmed by has been happening in Turkey, as are many others here.
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Maybe our situation can be an example for others, I don’t know how to express but if islam is a cancer democracy is a sugar for muslims. First thing they do is to attack free speech and if they are successful the rest comes quickly.
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We in the West should be *defending* our values–and that definitely includes free speech. In fact, if you lose freedom of speech, you cannot defend any of your values.
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Meanwhile, I don’t really feel good and started acting like a troll, so I will take a break and try to heal my soul. I will be around and try to read the articles and when I will be able to properly think again I will send my comments.
Best Regards
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I know you guys are under a huge amount of stress right now. Be well.
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PS. My grandmother was Greek so I can’t have any bad feelings against them ?
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Well, I know a Greek man would not have been allowed to marry into a Muslim family–not unless he had converted to Islam himself.
Glad to hear you don’t have bad feelings about Greeks.
Hope we see you back here soon. And my thoughts are you and the other Secularists in Turkey. 🙂
Peggy says
This is a discussion site and all ideas should be welcome. How else are we going to learn if not from people having different ideas to ours and supporting them with something.
Kicking people off just because you don’t agree with what they say is undemocratic.
You are free to ignore the comments you don’t like or reply with an alternative point of view. Your choice.
gravenimage says
Very few posters are ever banned at Jihad Watch.
Walter Sieruk says
The Quran instructs jihad minded Muslim in Sura 9:123 “o you who believe ! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you ,and let them find harshness in you…” So running non-Muslims over with a car and thus murdering them is a extremely effective way to show them harshness.
Benedict says
“In fact, Islam attracts the psychically marginal, as it provides them with a justification of and blessing for their impulses to rage, hatred and violence.” –
– and this is a serious indictment of Islam, and it discloses the real nature of this demonic ideology. Evil people may not know much about Islam, but they know this much: terror, hate, rage and violence is accepted and justified if dedicated to Islam.
A religion of peace should help people come to terms with these impulses and notes from the underground instead of making room to express them.
EmHotep says
More Turkey referendum fraud exposed
https://twitter.com/mrubin1971/status/854723293508771841
IQ al Rassooli says
The most efficient way of destroying Islam is by Discrediting Muhammad as a prophet and the alleged divine origin of his Quran as shown herein
I dare any Muslim or any of their brain dead supporters to prove anything I reveal about the depraved Muhammad and Islam in this video as either wrong or false
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTuFA1fQ-yg&feature=youtu.be&a
Please spread to all your contacts so that more people get enlightened about Islam’s threat to humanity
IQ al Rassooli
Kafir & Proud!
Jeanette says
Educate American women about Muslim female genital mutilation. Then tell them that we can de-fang Islam by getting it declassified as religion and reclassified as cult.
American women will take care of it.
somehistory says
He is truly a disgusting, demon infested creature. islam is not a *faith*. moslims must constantly *prove* things, to *prove* their fake god is powerful and gets things done…by way of murdering, raping, etc. they think they are fooling people into believing that their fake god has the power and can do as *it* wills.
satan realizes that his power is only what is allowed by The Almighty Creator and soon, even that will be gone. satan motivates humans to act in such hideous ways in order to cause people to fear him. It is not *faith* that causes these vermin to rape, steal and murder.
Jeanette says
I am not a trained theologian, but my understanding is that Satan is gathering as many souls as possible.
Islam must be a rich source of souls for him.
somehistory says
Right from the get-go, satan tried to make God out to be a liar….God said that if Adam and Eve disobeyed, they would “die.” satan said that God knew they wouldn’t die, but that they would “be like God, knowing good and bad.”
They died.
When Jesus Christ was in the wilderness, satan tried to get Him to go against the commands of His Father, misapplying verses from God’s Word. He wanted Christ to disobey God. He had tried to kill Jesus when He was a baby, and since that had not worked, his goal was to make Jesus be disobedient. When that didn’t work, he killed Jesus, and tried to have all of His followers killed.
When reading Job, one can see *why* bad things happen to people, especially those who are trying to do right.
And then comes the “great tribulation” when a “great crowd out of all nations, tribes, languages,” will survive and be praising God.
satan does not want this to come true…he wants to keep a “great crowd” of people from surviving with their faith intact.
And yes, with islam, he is proving to gain many for destruction instead of life eternal. But he will still fail in his goal of killing all humankind.
gravenimage says
Australia: Muslim who murdered six by hitting them with his car says “Muslim faith is the correct faith”
He then mentioned the Bible and Koran, and continued: “Did you know that Muslim faith is the correct faith according to the whole world? And I am not guilty.”
……………………………
Dimitrious Gargasoulas–I wonder what his *Muslim* name is?–is not wrong. Under Shari’ah law slaughtering Infidels in the name of Islam is perfectly Islamic, and is not considered a crime at all.
EmHotep says
He is Greek. I think he is making up to get away from his crime by saying I am muslim. There are no muslim Greeks in the world.
gravenimage says
EmHotep, there would be no other reason for him to have waged Jihad save being Muslim.
There are indeed Greeks who have converted to Islam. They are, as you note, few in number, because most Greeks have had enough experience with Islam to know how repulsive it is.
There were Greeks who converted to Islam when that land was under Muslim conquest for centuries.
More recently, there was Carlos Mavroleon–the son of a Greek ship-owner, a former Wall Street broker and a war correspondent, who became the leader of an Afghan Mujahideen unit during the Afghan war against the Soviets.
Yusuf Islam was born Steven Demetre Georgiou–he was better know as Cat Stevens. He was of Cypriot Greek origin, and converted to Islam in 1977.
Another is Diam’s–born Mélanie Georgiades–a French rapper of Greek origin.
In my own neck of the woods is Hamza Yusuf, founder of “Zaytuna College” in Berkeley. He’s been called “arguably the west’s most influential Islamic scholar”. He was born Mark Hanson and grew up a practicing Greek Orthodox Christian. He strongly considered joining the Greek Orthodox priesthood in his youth. He converted to Islam the same year as Cat Stevens did.
There are probably others who are less famous.
Not a lot of Greek converts to Islam, EmHotep–but they do exist.
Jeanette says
I think I would avoid sweeping statements like that! They almost always come back to bite you in the derriere!
I would imagine that there are Greeks of every religion.
(I don’t believe that Islam is a religion, but Greek Muslims apparently do.)
Carolyne says
No Muslim Greeks> You are truly disoriented today.
Peggy says
People have converted to Islam from all countries around the globe.
Why would Greece be any different?
BTW, Cat Stevens had a Greek father. Did he not convert to Islam and had connection to Greece?
DRHazard says
He was just emulating his prophet. Muslims are commanded by Allah to be insane, illiterate, power mad, pedophiles with delusions of grandeur, just like Muhammad. In Islam, mental illness is often a plus.
mortimer says
Delusions of grandeur much?
This is very similar to drug-induced mania or perhaps schizophrenic hallucinations. Maybe both and then add JIHADISM into the mix.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he heard voices telling him to kill.
shoehorn says
Victoria police said the incident was not ‘terror-related’ and the media dutifully reported that it had ‘nothing to do with terrorism’ (7 Network vid at my link). Tell the pedestrians being mown down that.
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/live-pedestrians-hit-gunshots-heard-in-melbourne-cbd-20170120-gtvf3x.html
No Fear says
Sounds like he is a few sandwiches short of a picnic.
St. Manuel II Palaiologos says
If Islam were true, which is very unlikely and almost laughable, I would tell Allah to fuck himself. Hell or not.
gravenimage says
Agreed, St. Manuel II Palaiologos. Even if Islam were true–and I do not believe in a “mad god” universe–I could not bring myself to be a good Muslim by slaughtering Infidels and apostates, committing genocide against the Jews, enabling marrying children and raping sex slaves, threatening those who practice freedom of speech or play music, and “Honor Kill” disobedient daughters. Even if it meant hell, I would not do these things.
Islam is not just false, it is *evil*.
Jeanette says
“I could not bring myself to be a good Muslim by slaughtering Infidels and apostates, committing genocide against the Jews, enabling marrying children and raping sex slaves, threatening those who practice freedom of speech or play music, and “Honor Kill” disobedient daughters”
I agree. The decent are prevented from such behavior by their characters. It is not that they are sane, while the poor 1.7 billion Muslims are not sane.
But decency doesn’t prevent many Muslims from committing atrocities, and it doesn’t cause almost 1.7 billion of them to voice disapproval of those atrocities.
So we are dealing with lack of decency, otherwise known as (as you said) EVIL.
Carolyne says
It is my belief that those living in Muslim countries are already living in hell.
gravenimage says
Agreed, Jeanette and Carolyne.
Peggy says
GI, I’m sure you couldn’t bring yourself to be a bad Muslim either because that would mean renouncing Christ. When I think of what these lost souls do to join this evil cult it really makes me sad. They renounce Christ. It must really hurt Him too.
gravenimage says
Right, Peggy–I just wanted to emphasize the utter savagery that Islam demands.
Goddess says
Who gives a shit what this plant food grunts? Put this shit down like the rabid dogs they are!
Matthieu Baudin says
“…What mainstream analysts fail to grasp is that being unbalanced and being a jihadi are not mutually exclusive. In fact, Islam attracts the psychically marginal, as it provides them with a justification of and blessing for their impulses to rage, hatred and violence…”
All too true. Some of the truly unbalanced in our communities answer the call to Violent Jihad together with all of those who are ‘normal’ but under the spell of a totalitarian war ideology.
tim.gallagher says
This particular individual does seem insane, maybe schizophrenic, maybe an ice user as well. But as people have said above Islam is just the perfect hate-filled, murderous, barbaric cult for such people to join. It encourages and condones the worst in human behaviour in every aspect of life. It is the opposite of Christianity, which encourages peace and love. Christians may not live up to the high ideals, but at least the religion has high ideals. Buddhism seems peaceful and tolerant as well. I think of Islam as being something like the old Aztec religion with its human sacrifices, etc, and thankfully long extinct. I hope Islam will also become extinct somewhere off in the future. There will never be any peace in the world while Islam exists. But, meanwhile, Islam needs to be quarantined away from all of us non-Muslims. It’s a danger to us all. Whenever I hear about someone who actually chooses to join Islam, I think there’s something wrong with them. There are many more peaceful religions they can join, so I think the person who joins violent Islam has to have a very bad attitude.
Jeanette says
We not only can’t afford to treat 1.7 billion insane people; we can’t even afford to filter out those who might be insane from those who are just plain evil.
But note that jihadis seldom (never?) attack police headquarters, FBI buildings, Scotland Yard, etc. Very reasoning for a mentally deficient person.
Peggy says
Actually one little turd tried to attack police in the car park of a police station.
Just goes to show how stupid they really are.
gravenimage says
Good post, Tim.
FYI says
islam is certainly the correct faith….for losers,evil-doers,liars(they’ll love taqqiya),murderers,silly western women who think it is cool to wear a hijab(please ladies-wear a burqa and…spare a thought for the Yazidi women forced to wear veils),the perverted(polygamists and pederasts),college professors who are not smart enough to differentiate between God and the diabolus simius Dei(=allah),pimply teenagers who need an outlet for their self-hatred,celebrities suckered into believing the “religion of peace” nonsense,misguided African-Americans(you know muhammed kept black slaves,right??are you OK with that??),bored ex-Catholics who want a religion that allows them to be violent…allah loves his own!
If you belong to any of the above groups then please feel free to convert to the cult of islam.
It’s perfect for you.
1)You can change your name too to something Arabic(although you will never of course be considered as such in any Arab country)
2)Grow yourself a beard for that hairy coconut look so beloved of converts to islam.
3)If you learn off those “prayers” to allah in Arabic at least try to understand what they MEAN.
4)If you wish to follow allah’s teachings and slay the unbelievers remember that the actual God condemns murder in His Commandments(ask the iman to explain why allah left those out in his koran;I’m sure he will be happy to provide you with an enumerated list straight from the koran.Good luck with that)
and of course you will either go to jail for murder assuming the police authorities don’t take you out first and send you to hell(or the Islamic paradise)
dumbledoresarmy says
I wonder whether, when he said, “I am the saviour”, whether he was thinking *Islamically* – whether what he *meant* was “I am the Mahdi”?
A very different thing from claiming to be the ‘Messiah’ of Jews or Christians.
The war in the Sudan in the late 19th century pitted the British Empire against a Muslim styling himself the ‘Mahdi’ who was creating absolute mayhem (all of it, of course, perfectly in conformity to the Sunnah of Mohammed).
Carolyne says
It’s possible, but did he climb out of a well in Iran?
gravenimage says
Carolyne, the idea of the Mahdi exists elsewhere than in just Iran; Churchill as a young man fought against an uprising in Sudan with a faction that had declared a Mahdi.
Lydia says
Uh… the INcorrect faith!
Plowing into human beings with a car is yet further proof.
Christianity is the correct faith.
We don’t do that stuff.
It’s about what the religious text tells its followers to do; total opposites here!
PKG says
Many Thanks to gravenimage and Manos for their reasoned arguments based on historical facts Re: the Greco Turkish war – it looks as though the other guy has been lobotomised with heavy propaganda and a revisionist version of Greek Turkish history- to say the least!!!!
gravenimage says
Thank you, PKG.
This Muslim propaganda is, grimly, rife in Turkey.