The Turks continue to deny any active plan to commit genocide of the Armenians and other non-Muslims. Here, however, is documentary proof that the Ottoman government knew what was happening and approved. The Armenians were kuffar harbi — Infidels at war with Islam — for wanting independence, and hence under Islamic law their lives were forfeit.
“My firm belief as a Turk is that democracy and human rights in Turkey can only be established by facing history and acknowledging historic wrongdoings.”
Yes, but Islamic supremacists never do that. Ever. It either didn’t happen or it’s the Infidel’s fault.
“‘Sherlock Holmes of Armenian Genocide’ Uncovers Lost Evidence,” by Tim Arango, New York Times, April 22, 2017 (thanks to Blazing Cat Fur):
For more than a century, Turkey has denied any role in organizing the killing of Armenians in what historians have long accepted as a genocide that started in 1915, as World War I spread across continents. The Turkish narrative of denial has hinged on the argument that the original documents from postwar military tribunals that convicted the genocide’s planners were nowhere to be found.
Now, Taner Akcam, a Turkish historian at Clark University in Worcester, Mass., who has studied the genocide for decades by piecing together documents from around the world to establish state complicity in the killings, says he has unearthed an original telegram from the trials, in an archive held by the Armenian Patriarchate of Jerusalem.
“Until recently, the smoking gun was missing,” Mr. Akcam said. “This is the smoking gun.” He called his find “an earthquake in our field,” and said he hoped it would remove “the last brick in the denialist wall.”
The story begins in 1915 in an office in the Turkish city of Erzurum, when a high-level official of the Ottoman Empire punched out a telegram in secret code to a colleague in the field, asking for details about the deportations and killings of Armenians in eastern Anatolia, the easternmost part of contemporary Turkey.
Later, a deciphered copy of the telegram helped convict the official, Behaeddin Shakir, for planning what scholars have long acknowledged and Turkey has long denied: the organized killing of up to 1.5 million Armenians by the leaders of the collapsing Ottoman Empire, an atrocity widely recognized as the 20th century’s first genocide.
And then, just like that, most of the original documents and sworn testimony from the trials vanished, leaving researchers to rely mostly on summaries from the official Ottoman newspaper.
Mr. Akcam said he had little hope that his new finding would immediately change things, given Turkey’s ossified policy of denial and especially at a time of political turmoil when its president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, has turned more nationalist.
But Mr. Akcam’s life’s work has been to puncture, fact by fact, document by document, the denials of Turkey.
“My firm belief as a Turk is that democracy and human rights in Turkey can only be established by facing history and acknowledging historic wrongdoings,” he said….
S Brown says
C’mon. We all know Turkey had nothing to do with the Armenian Suicide. It’s a well known fact the Armenians slit their own throats.
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
Aw c’mon. For some reason the Armenians decided to leaves their homes and make a mass exodus into the mountains during the winter, a poor decision that left a million or so of them dead by the roadsides from starvation and exposure. This was one of the great inexplicable Lemming-like events in world history. The Turks were happy to see it, but were hands off. Now we are left with the Kardashians.
Liz says
Lolzzz
Jeanette says
And we have at least one commenter here who will confirm that.
Primitive man says
S Brown,
Thats the most accurate comment.
gravenimage says
So “Primitive man” is claiming that Armenians committed genocide against themselves? He does realize that S Brown is being sarcastic, isn’t he?
Primitive man says
gravenimage, armenian genocide is a lie. in 1915 galipoli campaign invaders came with the soldiers from 11 nation. No one talks about invading Turkey but everyone is very interesting for the armenian bulshit. Stop being selfish. No male graduated in Turkey in 1915. So, when the invaders came to invade Turkey its ok, but when the damn Turks protect theirself its genocide isnt it ? S.Brown made a point, and he is correct. Stop teaching us humanity look past your own. Have a good day.
BlueRaven says
good for you Mr. Akcam!!!
Salome says
I’m glad for his sake that he has a job and a home in the USA.
gravenimage says
Yes–he would not be safe if he returned to Turkey.
Gary says
….And if he currently lived in Turkey, he’d be dead by now.
Islam: ZERO freedom of speech.
Islam the religion of killers says
As Turkey is about to hang Europe the E.U bureaucrats should take notice as it’s about to happen to them.
Jeanette says
I don’t think the bureaucrats care; they are the ones who cannot get enough Muslims into Europe.
Peter says
The Turks planned the genocide, and carried it out, with assistance from the Kurds.
DrSique says
Well, the Kurds have done far more to acknowledge their involvement in this atrocity and are, today, protecting minorities from islamist massacre. I have two problems with this article. First, the Armenians were not slaughtered because they were Armenians seeking autonomy. They were slaughtered, mostly, because they were Christians seeking relief from an oppressive Islamic Government. Second, Erdogan is not becoming more of a “nationalist”, he is becoming more of an islamist. More death to follow.
Seabird says
Some prominent Kurds have expressed their apologies and remorse for their role as death squads during the Genocide and have also protected minorities from Islamists.
The Turks promised the Kurds autonomy and property from the victims of their extermination but later reneged on autonomy and attacked them too.
There are also cases where the Kurds helped victims escape, rescued orphaned children and hid survivors from authorities under penalty of death for assisting them.
Unlike the Turks, some Kurds are willing to face the truth and are seeking reconciliation.
To my knowledge, the Kurds are the only indigenous people of Anatolia in large numbers who haven’t (yet) been exterminated by the Turks.
Peter says
All you need to do is refer to US Ambassador to Turkey Henry Morgenthau’s written account “Ambassador Morgenthau’s Story: A Personal Account of the Armenian Genocide”.
The British Secret Service were so outraged by the atrocity that after the war they aided in the assassination of two of the Young Turks, Djemal Pasha and Talaat Pasha, who were killed by an Armenian assassination squad with their help. Enver Pasha was killed by the Bolsheviks near Dushanbe in 1922 trying to reestablish the caliphate there.
gravenimage says
Yes–Morgenthau’s account is an important one.
StacyGirl says
Has anyone seen “The Promise” which sells itself as the story of the Armenian Genicide? All the reviews I’ve read say the cause for the ‘tension between Turks and Armenians’ has never been known. Wow.
guest says
I just saw it. What an important story (the genocide) that has been buried for decades.
Turkey needs to own this, but with Erdogan, it is doubtful it will happen.
I do hope Trump will finally label it “genocide”.
gravenimage says
Guest, here’s a story from two days ago:
“Sen. Markey Urges Trump Call Killings of Armenians Genocide”
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/massachusetts/articles/2017-04-21/sen-markey-urges-trump-call-killings-of-armenians-genocide
Kudos to Senator Edward Markey!
Donovan Nuera says
Obama promised in a videotaped interview in 2007 or 2008 that he would officially proclaim the Armenian Genocide a genocide….and….he did not fulfill that promise either so he could kiss more of Sultan Erdogan’s tuckus..
Danny says
Yes, hope & pray
Seabird says
Trump did aknowledge the Genocide today but used the Armenian word for it “meds yeghern” (just as Obama did) to appease the Turks.
When you start adding up his recent actions, awarding S Arabia a “counter-terrorism” award, congratulating Erdogan for his power-grabbing referendum and now, his refusal to use the word Genocide, his policy towards Islamic countries is no different from Obama’s (or Clinton’s or Bush).
And like Obama, in his coddling of Islamic countries like Turkey and S Arabia, his “War on terror” will also fail through the subversion and duplicity of these so-called “allies”.
Ronald Reagan had the courage to use the word “Genocide” in describing the atrocities committed against the Christians in Ottoman Turkey, Trump is no RR.
Michael says
no, he’s not Ronald Reagan. i think so many of us were so desperately hopeful — a desperation we almost didn’t know we felt, because the despair had gotten so deep, and for so long — that we pinned so much hope on Trump. Aware of a lot of his faults and obvious question marks, and hoping so badly that he wasn’t ‘one of them.’
it’s still early — i keep telling myself … and I watch, too. we’ll see.
Pal says
Seabird and Michael, I find your points about Reagan and Trump most relevant.
Expat88 says
I just saw it and I think it was important because of the subject material. The critics didn’t give it very good ratings but it doesn’t matter because it is high time that they made a movie about The Armenian Genocide. I think that I would recommend if someone is interested to go see it. It was filmed in Portugal and the island of Malta. I have been to Turkey several times and the film did a good job of portraying what looks like Turkish landscapes.
David Ramseur says
I saw the promise. It is spectacular. Reviews for movies have long since been dead. It really is a great movie.
Hindu American says
This latest finding will not help. Turks will never admit to their proactive role and complicity in the Armenian genocide. For the fear of antagonizing the Turks, rest of Europe will never admit to it either. For they, too, were complicit in a way. Recall that this genocide occurred well before Ataturk took over as a moderate. Wait for the Russians to deny this finding as a hoax for they too were involved (and continue to be involved) in many genocides.
Also recall Hitler’s (in)famous pronouncement about the Armenian genocide and his use of the massacre as a benchmark in the genocide of Jews, Poles and other minorities.
Source: Did the Armenian Genocide Inspire Hitler?. http://www.meforum.org/3434/armenian-genocide-hitler
The world never learns from its mistakes for it is driven to repeating them.
gravenimage says
You are right–Hitler infamously said, “who now remembers the Armenians?”.
He also modeled the Holocaust on this atrocity.
Leonidas says
Hitler showed his admiration for the general mohammedan Mustafa Kemal who in 1919 ordered the slaughter of 900k Pontian Greeks , cleansed Smyrna from Greeks by burning it , abolished the caliphate and became a brutal dictator in Turkey.
Jim says
Yes true Leonidis , for all those that dont believe it Google the Blight of Asia – hri.org for a full account of the terrible massacres of Christians in Smyrna by
GEORGE HORTON
For Thirty Years Consul and Consul-General of the
United States in the Near East
Danny says
Pardon my French, but its silly to mention the Russians here. Fact is, the Germans as allies to the Turks were warned of the plan and approved it, and stayed silent, also because they regarded the Armenians as being pro Russian in WWI. I wonder why this guy is not researching German archives, which contain enough facts on the Armenian genocide.
I don’t have any sympathies towards the Russians, but no one else in Europe was interested in the terrible fate of Christians under the Turks, while Germans were always with the muslims, at least since Luther.
Danny says
The Kaiser, Disraeli & co.
Steve says
No, that’s not correct. Parts of the German military approved of the deportations from war zones, not the subsequent massacres carried out by special orders and forces mostly beyond them, which there was strong protest over from the German diplomatic corps, which Akcam himself has documented. At any rate, the Turks were in control and held the whip hand because the Gemans needed their military participation against the allied encirclement. Some idiot Germans were and are pro-Islam, but certainly not all. Remember it was primarily Germans (including Austrians) who halted and rolled back the Turkish tide of conquest in the Balkans and Central Europe, with some Polish and other help.
Danny says
Check your sources, or, better go to Vienna (Austrian capital) to see how the Poles (NOT the Germans; its true a Bavarian duke was there with a small force) came and chased away the turks at the famous “Gates of Vienna”. In a nutshell, The Germans were and still are supporters of the turks, for various reasons.
Pal says
“Being afraid of Caucasian nations’ self-determination effort during the WWI (esp. Armenian one), Russian government removed 150,000 Armenian soldiers from its Caucasian Front armies and threw them to fight on the Eastern European front against the Poles and Ukrainians”. – Winston Churchill.
Russia played a Dirty Game in favor of Muslim Turks, leaving Christian Armenians in their hands. Communist Lenin government helped Kemalist Ataturk force seizing power; two government became allies against Western allies and signed important friendship and cooperation agreements.
Tony says
And of course as Hitler said to paraphrase him “… and who is going to remember that 1.5 million Armenians were killed” and once again Hitler is proven prophetic in his predictions on human actions.
Leonidas says
France has acknowledged the Armenian Genocide by Turkey and Merkel also did the same last year ,which drew a very angry reaction by President of Turkey Erdogan
Leonidas says
In September 1955 Turkish mobs attacked the Greeks still living in Constantinople – Istanbul and Smyrna under the false pretext of bombing of Mustafa Kemal’s house by Greeks in Thessaloniki, destroyed their shops ,raped women and by 1985 had all Greeks expelled to Greece unless they accepted conversion to Islam.
In Cyprus in 1974 Turks invaded the island ,when Makarios was deposed by a coup,killed thousands, executed more than 1300 prisoners, raped women ,expelled the Greeks from 35% of the island ,where they brought more than 200k of muslim Turks and declared it and independent state recognized only by Turkey to this day!
Pal says
Many boys have been raped, too, facts about 1955 Pogrom say.
(“Eternal young boys scattered as pearls in Muslim Paradise”… – holy (?) Quran 52:24, 56:17, 76:19…)
Pal says
Too few countries recognize Armenian Genocide. 26 so far: http://www.armenian-genocide.org/recognition_countries.html
Greek and Assyrian Genocides by Turks are recognized by only several countries and districts.
RonaldB says
“Recall that this genocide occurred well before Ataturk took over as a moderate. ”
This leaves a totally false impression that it was the Caliphate, rather than the Turkish military, that engineered the massacre.
In fact, it was the Young Turks, the Turkish military command, that was controlling Turkey at the time. Behaeddin Shakir, the originator of the message, was a close ally of the Young Turks. The reason the Turkish government, supposedly so modern in years past, is so passionate about denying the Armenian genocide, is that Ataturk and the present Turkish government will be shown to be directly implicated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behaeddin_Shakir
Erdogan is transitioning from a somewhat secular, somewhat democratic government to an Islamic dictatorship, but Turkish nationalism is still a strong component of any Turkish entity. So, Erdogan can’t be expected to change Turkish stance on the Armenian genocide: nothing happened, it wasn’t so bad, we’re not responsible, and we’ll assault anyone who talks about it.
Jeanette says
Why would they admit it, when they have Taqiyya?
Pal says
Jeanette,
Precisely, that is the culture that will ever fight against recognition. No matter one of secular or ‘real’ Muslim Turks. The everlasting Taqiyya mentality.
Ataturk government already since early 1920s started rejecting any accusation, glorifying perpetrators, brandishing “Armenian bands” and putting all those into schools’ textbooks.
gravenimage says
Historian finds documentary proof of Turkish role in Armenian Genocide
………………………….
Thanks to Taner Akcam for his sleuthing. But this is a small instance–there is huge amounts of evidence–spanning decades–for the involvement of Turkish authorities in the Armenian Genocide.
mortimer says
Taner Akcam is a very brave man whom I admire greatly for his moral and intellectual integrity. He certainly needs full time protection, but will the US government provide it? Taner Akcam is doing a service for all humanity by delivering the goods.
The expert research he does can only be done by someone able to decipher the weird Ottoman Turkish script that a tiny number of modern scholars are capable of doing.
Thank you, Professor Akcam.
Pal says
Gravenimage,
Indeed, it is a small instance.
There Are huge amounts of evidences; Taner Akcam knows them and he has worked on them.
NYTimes article is rather a reminder of 24th of April – The Day of Armenian Genocide that Turkey DO NOT WISH to recognize,
Unlike GERMANY who recognized EVERYTHING, Payed compensations and DID many more things.
And Unlike the Armenian Patriarchate in Constantinople (Istanbul) – a bit silent on the matter, with its leader considered by some as a Turkish Stooge: http://armenianweekly.com/2016/06/07/atesyan-erdogan/
gravenimage says
True, Pal.
somehistory says
Good for him. If Turkey was not in the hands of moslims, the government might acknowledge what the former members of government did and commanded to be done. With a confirmed moslim fanatic at the helm, more likely he is to put out a fatwa on the head of this historian.
gravenimage says
Taner Akçam has faced a great deal of harassment from the Turkish government, including being accused of “Insulting Turkishness”, which can result in long prison sentences.
Of course, even such a brave man as himself has been somewhat infected with his country’s denial. This, from Wikipedia:
Akçam argues for an attempt to reconcile the differing Armenian and Turkish narratives of the genocide, and to move away from the behaviour which uses those narratives to support national stereotypes. “We have to re-think the problem and place both societies in the centre of our analysis. This change of paradigm should focus on creating a new cultural space that includes both societies, a space in which both sides have the chance to learn from each other.”
All the Armenian and other victims of the Armenian Genocide have to learn is that being conquered by Muslims leads to mass slaughter, I’m afraid.
Isabella says
On the Internet, there is a picture of eight young naked Armenian women who were al crucified together. I just cannot believe the Turks will continue to dénie what they have done to the Armenians. Google using the words crucified women Armenian.The Armenians have a special place in my heart.
Primitive man says
The fake photos, Turks doesnt use the cross. Search it properly, you will find the answer, they are all fake..
gravenimage says
“Primitive man” wrote:
The fake photos, Turks doesnt (sic) use the cross. Search it properly, you will find the answer, they are all fake..
…………………………
“Primitive man” is probably referring to the silent film “Ravished Armenia”, from 1919, based on a memoir by Genocide survivor Aurora Mardiganian.
This would, essentially, be like saying the Holocaust never happened because Hollywood has made films about it.
Here is what she had to say about the film:
However, almost 70 years later Mardiganian revealed to film historian Anthony Slide that the scene was inaccurate. She described what was actually an impalement. She stated that “The Turks didn’t make their crosses like that. The Turks made little pointed crosses. They took the clothes off the girls. They made them bend down, and after raping them, they made them sit on the pointed wood, through the vagina. That’s the way they killed – the Turks. Americans have made it a more civilized way. They can’t show such terrible things.”
Why would “Primitive Man” consider this *better*?
Muslims deny that Christ was crucified–but Muslims have themselves indeed crucified victims.
Qur’an 5:33 reads:
“he punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter”
Crucifixion is mentioned in the Hadith, and the “Prophet” crucified people in Medina as chronicled in Sunan Abu Dawud.
And this was not just a thing of the past. Here are some contemporary cases:
“Islamic State crucifying Ramadan violators ‘every day’”
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/06/islamic-state-crucifying-ramadan-violators-every-day
Here is Saddam Hussein crucifying his opponents:
https://wikiislam.net/index.php?title=File:Crucified_in_iraq.jpg&filetimestamp=20100626004115&
Primitive man says
The fake photos, if you search it properly, you will find the answer. I am collecting every evidence for the armenian lies. https://www.pinterest.com/primitive1man/ Ottoman empire ruled half of the eu without the human zoos. I can find thousands of fake photos made by armenians. So-called armenian genocide is the biggest lie and political propaganda..
gravenimage says
So “Primitive man” finds politically incorrect ethnological expositions of how ethnic people dressed, lived, and traveled to be more concerning than *the genocide of a over a million people”?
What moral insanity is this?
Here is the unfortunate history of this phenomenon:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_zoo
The West is now rightly critical of this part of its history–whereas Muslims either deny that the Armenian Genocide or the Holocaust occurred, or else they are threatening victims that they will finish the job.
*This* is what “Primitive man” is spouting apologia for. *Ugh*.
SAKOVKT says
It’s good that the “smoking gun” telegram has been discovered but to one interested in history for its own sake, as well as his own, these things are recurrences and that is proof enough.
History is written in blood.
Ink is a pale substitute and always biased or misinformed, even among the most sincere writers trying to simply understand. These are very few, to begin with.
Genocides are simply civil wars in which one side is unarmed.
Politics, the art of acquiring power by discriminating between allies and enemies, determines the enemy.
Would one arm his enemy just to make it a fair fight?
Genocides are what comes of mass politics in which a people fights another people for a political goal it calls its own, versus the older absolute politics, in which wars were concocted by courts and kings and capturing the enemy flag sufficed to transfer a parcel of land, back when wealth was in the land rather than industry, mass production, raw materials and mass markets.
The first genocide of the Modern Era was the Vendee, conducted by the French Revolution against reactionary “Catholic et Royal” Vendeans who had no problem with their aristocracy or clergy, which were functioning fine in the provincial area, versus metropolitan Paris, where things weren’t fine.
Anything can become political and if you get on the wrong side of it, it’s bad.
You’ll find politics in all genocides.
It’s not hate, in the usual sense that Liberals today confuse it with.
It’s “hate” as Clausewitz uses the term, as a will to war, which is also political in nature.
Individuals hate each other for all sorts of reasons and that’s actually just fine. This is freedom. Individuals can’t commit genocides, however. Even murder is illegal. Genocides are political and politics always requires leaders.
The Armenian Genocide was actually part of a Nationalist Movement in Turkey, at the time : a Nationalist Movement that was becoming more radical in Europe due to the First World War and became ever more radical after the Bolshevik Revolution, the Red Scare of 1919, the 3rd International and preaching of International Revolution.
It was this same Turkish Nationalist Movement that propelled “Attaturk”, Mustafa Kemal into power, a secular ruler.
Like most political terms, “nationalism” is vague. No one has yet to define it precisely enough for any definitive analysis of what actually is or not “nationalist”.
Truth is, all these political change with circumstances.
So, they continue to get bandied about in slogans and speeches, with no one ever really knowing much of anything other who hates who, in a very political sense and very real sense of senseless recurrence.
America was Exceptional, however.
George Washington and Napoleon Bonaparte were both contemporary nationalist revolutionaries.
Washington had only the Whiskey Rebellion to suppress by way of counter-revolution, which he did by force, but without firing a shot.
Napoleon, on the other hand,,,,
But now, it seems America is becoming ever more like the Old World.
Maybe we’re just getting old, ourselves?
RonaldB says
You’re correct. Genocide is simply a much-used component of human warfare. But, genocide isn’t by any means limited to domestic disputes. When one tribe takes over the territory of another tribe, natural selection dictates that the tribe that allows its enemies to organize and attack in the future is less likely to survive than the tribe that settles the matter once and for all by killing all its enemies before they can return the favor.
Even the Hebrew scriptures documented genocides at god’s command. This is not to attack religion, but to point out the ubiquity of genocide to solve present problems and prevent future problems.
Of course, with modern border protection technology, and the vast gap of technological capabilities between advanced societies and primitive societies, there is no excuse whatsoever for killing people. They can simply be kept out, in their own countries and territories.
Wellington says
Quite fitting that Turkey continues to insist that the Armenian genocide committed by Turks didn’t occur.
Here’s the major reason why: When has any Islamic polity, any Islamic entity, even one reduced in its “Isalmicness” by a figure like Ataturk, admitted to wrongdoing by Muslims? Yes, when?
One feature of a stupid belief system is its incapacity to apologize for its mistakes. It is also a feature of a rigid and turgid belief system. So fitting, then, that Turkey continues to deny its role in genocide in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. I would contend that much of this denial, though not all because, as an example, and let’s face it, the Japanese to this very day have not acknowledged clearly and unambiguously their many heinous activities during WWII (e.g., the Rape of Nanking), is wrapped up with Islamic supremacist ideology, whereby it as a whole can never do anything wrong.
Which takes me to another and expansive matter. It is this: Only Western Civilization has truly acknowledged, unambiguously, its wrongdoings. No other civilization or society has, including American Indian societies, which were brutal to each other long before Columbus arrived (and after too) and sub-Saharan African societies which quite willingly savaged each other, sold each other into slavery, et al.
Right now, scores of young minds full of mush in American colleges and universities aplenty are being regularly told by leftist professors (some Muslim professors too) how awful America and Western Civilization are. Nothing could be further from the truth, and tending, unfortunately, to validate the Emperor Napoleon’s take on the reconstruction of the past, to wit, that it is a pack of lies agreed upon.
I fight against this cynical view of history since truth, though often elusive, is something I am convinced can be found out if only enough diligence in its pursuit is applied, but living in the absurd times that I do, which times I call the Age of Nonsense, I must concede that the Emperor may have had a very valid point after all. Hope otherwise however, but hopin’ ain’t necessarily gettin’.
The continued Turkish denial of the mass murder of Armenians some hundred years ago serves as a case in point of Napoleon’s assessment. So does the continued assertion by sundry Western politicians that Islam is just fine and the only “problem” is that it has been hijacked by a few extremists here and there. And yet here is another example, one that particularly worries me, to wit, that a distinction is made by many influential and powerful Westerners (examples being Howard Dean, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Tony Blair, Theresa May and Angela Merkel, who enjoy more freedoms than have any other people in mankind’s history PRECISELY because Western Civilization pioneered a multitude of freedoms such as no other civilization did) between free speech and hate speech. Such a distinction is very dangerous. Such a distinction is foolish. Such a distinction is Orwellian and is a recipe for the ending of freedom. Such an idiotic distinction only validates Napoleon all the more (which I do not want).
Interesting how “things” often fit together. For example, from denial of genocide to the ending of freedom. Oh yes, quite the “fit.” Count on it. Would be foolish to do otherwise. I have no doubt were the Emperor still around he’d be a drinking buddy with me on this verity.
gravenimage says
And of course Muslims only engage in the denial when they are concerned that it will make Islam look bad, Wellington. When Muslims are in full control, they never do this.
For instance, ISIS is not pretending to their Christian and Yezidi victims that Islam is anything but a brutal creed.
If–God forbid–Islam ever gains world-wide dominance, we would be able to expect Muslims to taunt us with threats of another Armenian Genocide.
Jeanette says
I don’t think they would bother with taunting; they would just begin the elimination of all non-Muslims.
Possibly excepting small children.
Tony says
Do you think it has to do with the Judaic-Christian religious notion of asking for forgiveness! Whereas I do not see this notion as a central point in the Moslem faith.
Wellington says
That’s part of it, Tony. And this “part” is wrapped up with the capacity in the Judeo-Christian ethic to embrace a Golden Rule for all. No such rule exists in the Islamic ethic. Partial proof of this is that to this very day in Islamic theology, and as upheld by EVERY major Islamic school of theology, non-Muslims are the equivalent of human waste.
Can’t have a Golden Rule for all with rot like this. Which in turn leads to other negatives like the incapacity to apologize for wrongdoing, respecting which Islam has so very much to apologize for, for instance engaging in black African slavery much longer, to a much greater extent, with no initiative on its own to end it, and with no apology to this very day that it was wrong, contra the West big time. And which is why I have long argued that while ALL Muslims are confused human beings, any black person being a Muslim is an EXTRA confused human being.
No black should be a Muslim. Far from it. My God, Islam’s own founder owned black slaves and referred derogatorily about blacks (e.g., Bukhari hadith 1:662 where Mohammed refers to blacks as “pug nosed slaves”). Oh yeah, show me a Muslim and I will show you a confused person. Show me a black Muslim and I will definitely show you an extra pathetically confused human being. I do hope at least one black Muslim reads what I have just written and I would challenge such a person to refute me. Can’t be done I would aver.
The RationalVoice says
Any person black, white or something In between is confused, stupid , just yielding to primitive tribalism but whatever the case is unable to think for themselves as it is blatantly obvious that no god exists, no heaven or hell exists, evil old books are not a guide to good living and should not be followed and when you die It is GAME OVER
David Ramseur says
Judeo/Christian religion promotes confessing sin while Islam promotes concealing it. Christians view God as Father, Muslims view Allah as master….he is unforgiving. Muslims are obligated to lie for the furtherance of Islam. The religion is competitive and supremacist at its very essence. Since sins are concealed, the religion is not transformative. The emphasis is always projected towards the unbelievers and how to deal with them. The Judeo/Christian religions on the contrary emphasize looking within before looking without. The competitiveness is so striking that sin is even justified, Muslims are given immunity from sin, if it furthers Islam. Jihad is the central, fundamental feature of the religion that everything else (family, leisure, hobbies, culture, government, etc…) revolves around. Literally, not just being a deplorable religion/ideology, Islam is a counterfeit of Christianity that teaches the opposite stance on just about every single tenet/characteristic. It is the anti-Christ system. And the eschatology is eerie.
Pal says
Islam is a counter-religion and counter-faith, a counter-civilisation and
counter-culture to all the rest.
As such, it is deliberately designed to stand against them, to smash, eliminate and replace them.
Last in order Sura/h, 110, and Mahdi hadith, profess Islam’s ‘final solution’: a Global caliphate established on Earth by Mahdi, the last caliph, and the islamic Isa, with no more unbelievers. Muslims must fight to transform the world into islamic one before its end.
Jack Holan says
Turkey must admit to the Ottoman genocide of 1915 before she can join the community of civilized countries. Given Caliph Erdogan’s delusions and Supremacism, non-compliance within NATO Turkey should be kicked out of NATO, refused Membership to the EU and barred from certain UN Agencies until Turkey honestly admits it’s guilt in the extermination of 1.5mm Armenians because they were infidels. If Turkey does not take this step it’s very possible we may witness a repeat performance this time with the genocide of the Kurds!
Tony says
I also think that Turkey should be invaded by Greece with American help so Greece can retake Constantinople.
gravenimage says
I don’t think Greece would want to deal with Constantinople now–almost all the civilized Christians have fled or been slaughtered. Right now the joint is full of Mohamemdans.
Larry Larkin says
It’s long been known that there is a copy of the final draft of the instructions and orders for the Armenian Genocide held by the British Archives at Kew.
Good that more sleuthing is being done and more evidence being found, now we just have to get politicians in the West to stand up and show some guts on the issue.
mortimer says
What is sleuthed cannot be ‘unsleuthed’. Taner Akcam’s work has driven a big nail into the coffin of Turkish denial.
Jeanette says
That certainly SHOULD be the case. But we’ve seen a lot of media and authorities hiding truths about Islam.
Tony says
Who after, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians? This is the quote by Hitler August 22, 1939.
gravenimage says
Yes–an important quote, Tony.
jewdog says
Turkish attitudes neatly parallel Iranian attitudes towards the Holocaust: It didn’t happen, but if it did then good, they deserved it, and we’d be inclined to make it happen again. Serves those infidels right.
This research will only have value in non-Islamist circles.
Isabella says
Agree with you.
no_one says
I know an Armenian guy whose grandma fled Turkey with her parents. She was 5 years old in 1915. She was scared and hungry. Bulgarians gave them shelter and food and she remembered this forever. Told the story to her grandchildren. The genocide was true.
Jim says
No _one says Google Blight of Asia to read of the United States consul general account of the Systematic slaughter of Armenians and Greeks by the Turkish Mohammedans.
Jeanette says
And about 70 years later, my family drove through Bulgaria (in a much larger trip). We saw the price of socialism (or communism being called socialism): People gaunt and hungry with inadequate clothing for the cold; oppression so bad that I remember the country in black and white (and I’m an artist, so color is a big deal to me).
The bad guys abound. It’s hell on Earth, possibly for more people than not.
gravenimage says
Yes–Islam and Communism are both terrible evils.
mortimer says
Taner Akcam is a very brave man whom I admire greatly for his moral and intellectual integrity. He certainly needs full time protection, but will the US government provide it? Taner Akcam is doing a service for all humanity by delivering the goods.
The expert research he does can only be done by someone able to decipher the weird Ottoman Turkish script that a tiny number of modern scholars are capable of doing.
Thank you, Professor Akcam.
Concerned Observer says
And in other news, water is wet.
Matthieu Baudin says
Greeks have an enduring antipathy towards Turkey because parallel to the Armenian Genocide there was also a genocide against Ethnic Greeks living within the Ottoman Empire.
Peter says
You are correct Matthieu, and the only reason it did not progress to the extent that the Armenian Genocide did is because there was a nation state (Greece) advocating on behalf of the Ethnic Greeks of Anatolia.
spa says
“The Armenians were kuffar harbi — Infidels at war with Islam — for wanting independence, and hence under Islamic law their lives were forfeit”
This is the fact …fact everywhere and anywhere ,If you are a subject in a Muslim influential area ,your life is under the Islamic sword …The state ,even an arrogant Muslim who is at odd with you cam easily initiate this sharia close and your life will be under threat ..This happened in Anatolia .
1453 AD ,the central Asian cave dwellers ,Turks set foot hold in Anatolia ,which was 100% Christians (Armenian ,Syrian,Assyrian,Greek Orthodox and a few Jews )
By 1850 they eliminated 50% of its Christian population
from 1890 onwards ,under the demonic leadership of the triumvirate pashas and active support from Germany and other Europeans and later from communist Russia ,Turks started the genocide of Christians which climaxed in 1912-16 what we call as Armenian genocide ..
In 1922 Ata tuirk ,rather Arson Turk set fire the biblical city of Smyrna ,killing only its .6 M Christians , (.4 M Muslims and JEws escaped !!!) and made it a complete Muslim city of IZMIR
.
Arson Turks successors introduced the infamous wealth tax in 1942 in which he state taxed its population with such discrimination ,(4% to Muslim ,155% to Jews ,173% to Greeks and 250% to Armenians ) the remaining Christians and Jews in cities like Constantinople perished …All these happened before the eyes of the world ,before the so called Christian west ..(Read the then NewYork Times to get the stories to some extend ) and Muslims did it with religious fervor and never we told the Muslims ,especially the Sunni Turks ,that their hand is full of innocent blood ..Instead we accepted them as respectful citizens of our country and turned into such a masochism that in the near future we/our children will again hear ,what Armenians heard as in the first sentence …
Steve says
How about giving us the text of the telegram? It should have been published at the same time as the announcement, to foil interference apart from anything.
Steve says
That is, a photographic copy of it, as the text itself was apparently already known.
Saleem Smith says
And you know that hundreds of thousands of ex-Muslim apostates are trapped in modern Turkey as the horrors of Islam once again sweep across the country.
Many years ago I had girlfriend who worked for a short time on a Turkish fishing boat. The crew were all ex-Muslims who pretended to be Muslims. She said that the crew were a bunch of cool guys who never tried to molest her. They just worked and drank rum and played poker all day while fishing. The Turkish fishermen told her that Islam was a horror and a lie that they just wanted to get away from it and not have to deal with it.
Anyways, I am an ex-Muslim covert to Islam, and some Muslim guy named Malik responded to one of my comments on Jihad Watch last night. Here was my response:
“Hello Malik,
You are wrong when you imply that Muslims who leave the fold Islam do not have to be concerned for their safety.
Muslims who decide to leave Islam face very real threats from the Muslim community in which they live, and I think you know this, Malik.
For example, when a Muslim informs his family and friends that he is leaving Islam, his life in that community is basically over. He or she should basically pack their bags and leave town and never look back, or face being relentless hounded, beaten, or killed.”
http://www.faithfreedom.org/
Pal says
Saleem Smith,
Turks on the boat have behaved that way most probably because:
– there had been no imam or pious Muslims close by – i.e., no “Allah” to scrutinize them;
– the team had been isolated asea and far from port;
– a non-Muslim paradise-boat in a larger “Muslim” area;
– when ashore, I doubt they would behave so;
– most probably, they have been not “ex-” ones. “Ex” means that they are something different, and they don’t connect themselves with Islam on any occasion, incl on birth, death, marriage, prayer, never enter a mosque, etc.
Michael says
and hung themselves. and burned themselves. and raped themselves. 1.5 million times. where was the question?
spac says
It is the mother of all genocide ,including that of Holocaust of modern society .The successors of Chengis Khan again did repeated his horrendous activities .This time they has the protection of their bloody religion …See what Hitler says
“ho, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?”
[August 22, 1939]
My decision to attack Poland was arrived at last spring. Originally, I feared that the political constellation would compel me to strike simultaneously at England, Russia, France, and Poland. Even this risk would have had to be taken.
Ever since the autumn of 1938, and because I realized that Japan would not join us unconditionally and that Mussolini is threatened by that nit-wit of a king and the treasonable scoundrel of a crown prince, I decided to go with Stalin.
In the last analysis, there are only three great statesmen in the world, Stalin, I, and Mussolini. Mussolini is the weakest, for he has been unable to break the power of either the crown or the church. Stalin and I are the only ones who envisage the future and nothing but the future. Accordingly, I shall in a few weeks stretch out my hand to Stalin at the common German-Russian frontier and undertake the redistribution of the world with him.
Our strength consists in our speed and in our brutality. Genghis Khan led millions of women and children to slaughter — with premeditation and a happy heart. History sees in him solely the founder of a state. It’s a matter of indifference to me what a weak western European civilization will say about me.
I have issued the command — and I’ll have anybody who utters but one word of criticism executed by a firing squad — that our war aim does not consist in reaching certain lines, but in the physical destruction of the enemy. Accordingly, I have placed my death-head formations in readiness — for the present only in the East — with orders to them to send to death mercilessly and without compassion, men, women, and children of Polish derivation and language. Only thus shall we gain the living space (Lebensraum) which we need. Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?”
Aton says
There is even more evidence for the genocide of the Greeks by Kemal Ataturk, in the burning of Smyrna (Izmir) in 1922, when 500,000 Greeks were eliminated and exiled. This was the most barbaric and heinous of all the genocides in the 20th century.
Read: Paradise Lost by Giles Milton:
https://www.amazon.com/Paradise-Lost-Giles-Milton/dp/034083787X
Aton
Jim says
Anton Google Blight of Asia , written by the United States consul general who was in Smyrna at the time of the slaughter of Christians by the Mohammedans.
Aton says
Why is this coming out now?
Because many of the secular Turks are afraid of Erdogan’s new Ottoman Caliphate, and they would rather destroy the myths of Turkey than live under Sharia Law in a fundamentalist Erdogan Caliphate.
It must be a difficult choice for them, to destroy the mythology of Turkey. And a dangerous one too, since Erdogan now has some 36,000 political prisoners in concentration camps (plus another 90,000 dismissed from their jobs).
Note to western media – why no articles on the fate of Erdogan’s 36,000 political prisoners?
Aton
Pal says
Aton:
http://stockholmcf.org/minister-soylu-says-47155-people-jailed-113260-people-detained-over-alleged-gulen-links/
Aton says
The tourist guide to Diyarbakir says there are 12 churches in the old city. But when you go exploring, you find that eleven of them have been burned down. Only one still stands, the 3rd century St Mary church (another is being rebuilt).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Mary_Church,_Diyarbak%C4%B1r
spa says
Yes ..Turks do have only 150000 Christians now and they can easily be finished off as and when the dog likes …But alas west s a mute supporter !!!What a pity to see Europeans .especially Germans do support the killer Islamist rather the Christians
Jim says
Read of the terrible systematic extermination of Christians by the Turks on
http://www.hri.org
This book is available for free
THE BLIGHT OF ASIA
An Account of the Systematic Extermination of Christian
Populations by Mohammedans and of the Culpability
of Certain Great Powers; with the True Story
of the Burning of Smyrna
By
GEORGE HORTON
For Thirty Years Consul and Consul-General of the
United States in the Near East
With a Foreword by
JAMES W. GERARD
Former Ambassador to Germany
PUBLISHERS THE BOBBS-MERRILL COMPANY, INDIANAPOLIS
COPYRIGRT 1926
BY THE BOBBS-MERRILL COMPANY
Printed In the United States of America
PRINTED AND BOUNDBY BRAUNWORTH & CO. INC. BROOKLYN N.Y.
Primitive man says
Ottoman empire ruled half of the EU for 600 years without human zoo’s. Armenian genocide allegation is the biggest lie and political propaganda.
gravenimage says
The Armenian Genocide is one of the most abundantly chronicled atrocities in history–over a million Christians were slaughtered.
“Primitive man” is aptly named.
Primitive man says
The christian club supports christian dude. There are many evidence that the armenians hiding the historical evidence and the most important, Turkish government offers $20 million armenian diaspora. They still did not open archives. Thats enough for me. Like i said, so-called armenian genocide is the biggest lie and political propaganda. Just want to drag Turkey into their own crap.
gravenimage says
Much of the chronicles for the Armenian Genocide come from Turkish sources–from the Ottoman Empire, the period of the “Young Turks”, and the era of Attaturk.
Is “Primitive man” pretending that over one million Armenian, Greek, Assyrian, and Levantine Christians killed themselves?
Primitive man says
gravenimage,i can see that you didnt even look the page i provided. The ottoman empire ruled half of the EU for 600 years without human zoo. After conquered constantnople, gave the religious freedom. The Crusaders invaded Jerussalem in 1099, they masacred every jewis and teh muslims. You answering and closing the reply, you cant even face the truth, talking rubbish. You just want to blame the Turks, so there is nothing to talk. God bless you my friend..
Jim says
Read of the terrible systematic extermination of Christians by the Turks on
Google.the blight of asia – hri.org
This book is available for free
THE BLIGHT OF ASIA
An Account of the Systematic Extermination of Christian
Populations by Mohammedans and of the Culpability
of Certain Great Powers; with the True Story
of the Burning of Smyrna
By
GEORGE HORTON
For Thirty Years Consul and Consul-General of the
United States in the Near East
With a Foreword by
JAMES W. GERARD
Former Ambassador to Germany
PUBLISHERS THE BOBBS-MERRILL COMPANY, INDIANAPOLIS
COPYRIGRT 1926
BY THE BOBBS-MERRILL COMPANY
Printed In the United States of America
PRINTED AND BOUNDBY BRAUNWORTH & CO. INC. BROOKLYN N.Y.
Seabird says
Today, Canadians can finally be proud of their PM, Mr Trudeau, who not only declared April 24 Armenian Genocide Memorial Day but used the word genocide three times in his statement unafraid of certain repercussions from the Turks (unlike most cowardly US Presidents).
Well done Mr Trudeau, thank you Canada.
Primitive man says
What about Canadian Holocaust ? Thousands of children raped, tortured and murdered, cover up what the Canadians done and recognised armenian lies 🙂
gravenimage says
What “Canadian Holocaust” is “Primitive man” blathering about here?
Primitive man says
http://wariscrime.com/new/the-canadian-holocaust-hidden-no-longer/ You only know the muslims mate. The christian club supports christians, thats clear… If you check my page, you will see what the Canadian holocaust is.. Have a good day (Sorry my boss is around here but i can reply later, forgive me please)
gravenimage says
This is not hidden. What claptrap. There have been large numbers of books and documentaries on the subject. Here is one, from the CBC itself:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/a-history-of-residential-schools-in-canada-1.702280
This has been referred to as “cultural genocide”.
The West is capable of self-criticism–Islam is not.
gravenimage says
This is from the Canadian government itself:
http://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/1100100015576/1100100015577
Pal says
Where is Em-Hotep / Somebody ?
gravenimage says
Last I saw of Emhotep he was threatening us with a video re-enaction of the conquest of Constantinople by the Turks–and calling us “racists” for not recognizing the supposed ethnic superiority of the Turkish people.
Not exactly the model “secular Turk” I think many of us had hoped he was…
Pal says
Armenian Genocide and also Greek Genocide and Assyrian Genocide are First Genocides of the 20th century. All they were perpetrated by the Muslim Turks, no mater “nationalistic of else. Adolf Hitler frequently referred to them and enjoys their pattern.
William Gladstone, four times UK’s Prime Minister:
“It is not a question of Islam simply, but of Islam compounded with the peculiar character of (the Turkish) race… From the first black day (Turks) set their foot on Europe, they became one great anti-human specimen of humanity. Wherever they went a broad line of blood marked the track behind them, and, as far as their dominion reached, civilization vanished from view. They represented everywhere government by force as opposed to government by law. – Yet a government by force can not be maintained without the aid of an intellectual element. – Hence there grew up, what has been rare in the history of the world, a kind of tolerance in the midst of cruelty, tyranny and rapine. Much of Christian life was contemptuously left alone and a race of Greeks was attracted to Constantinople which has all along made up, in some degree, the deficiencies of Turkish Islam in the element of mind!”
Taner Akcam has been marked for death by Turks in Turkey following his 2006 book A Shameful Act: The Armenian Genocide and The Question of Turkish Responsibility.
Taner Akcam:
“The question (of the Genocides) is linked to the CHRISTIANS, who once lived (in Asia Minor) and were annihilated. This problem is directly linked to the history of the (Turkish) republic and to (Turks’) VERY EXISTENCE. The republic was founded ON THE DISAPPEARANCE of the CHRISTIAN POPULATION living in Turkey – in other words, on the annihilation of an existing entity. Turks’ EXISTENCE was founded on DISAPPEARANCE OF ANOTHER ENTITY.”
Talyat Pasha, de-facto leader of Turkey, its Minister of interior, chief designer and perpetrator of the Armenian Genocide:
“We will not have the Armenians anywhere in Anatolia… I (have killed much more Armenians) for three months than (the Red) sultan Abdul Hamid II for 30 years!… Women and children of the Armenians will inevitably suffer!” (hadith Bukhari 256: “Women and children of the unbelievers are FROM THEM”.)
Genocides come ahead even of the Nazi chemical “approach”, with Armenian schoolchildren mass poisoning by chemical gasses and injecting by morphine overdoses. Children’s bodies have been opened, their organs removed, pieces of flesh ripped off with cotton hooks, kneecaps severed.
Mayor of Dyarbakir has tortured Armenians by nailing horseshoes to their feet and marching them through the streets. He also has crucified them on makeshift crosses. (“Saw horror into the hearts of the unbelievers!” holy Quran 8:12).
A. Hitler admired islam and muslim armies’ strength wishing his army to be the World’s German-Muslim Conqueror:
“Had Charles Martel not been victorious at Poitiers…then we should in all probability have been converted to Mohammedanism, that cult which glorifies heroism and which opens the seventh Heaven to the bold warrior alone. Then the Germanic races would have conquered the world. Christianity alone prevented them from doing so.”
Primitive man says
Hey PAL,
From the first black day (Turks) set their foot on Europe, they became one great anti-human specimen of humanity. What a joke. 🙂 You right mate, The Turks built the human zoo’s 🙂 The Turks watched the human being in the cages like an aninmals 🙂 The Turks invaded africa and america, You dont even know what the hell you are talking about. The Ottoman empire ruled half of the EU for 600 years without human zoo’s I think the ottoman empire were more civilized than EU.. Armenian genocide is the biggest lie and political propaganda. Just want to drag Turkey into their own crap, thats the truth…
Primitive man says
Armenian Geonocide allegation is the biggest lie and political propaganda.
Primitive man says
I am collecting every bulshit and the truth
https://www.pinterest.com/praying0mantis/
gravenimage says
“Primitive man” is collecting “every bulshit (sic)”, all right…