If now, during the Trump administration, American officials have suddenly decided to begin prosecuting those who mutilate girls’ genitals, there will be many more such arrests. Why? Because this repulsive practice is justified in Islamic texts.
“Circumcision is obligatory (for every male and female) (by cutting off the piece of skin on the glans of the penis of the male, but circumcision of the female is by cutting out the bazr ‘clitoris’ [this is called khufaadh ‘female circumcision’]).” — ‘Umdat al-Salik e4.3, translated by Mark Durie, The Third Choice, p. 64
Why is it obligatory? Because Muhammad is held to have said so: “Abu al- Malih ibn Usama’s father relates that the Prophet said: ‘Circumcision is a law for men and a preservation of honour for women.’” — Ahmad Ibn Hanbal 5:75
“Narrated Umm Atiyyah al-Ansariyyah: A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina. The Prophet (peace be upon him) said to her: ‘Do not cut severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband.’” — Abu Dawud 41:5251
“Do not cut severely,” but not “Do not cut.”
That’s why it is so common around the world, and why it is certain to become increasingly common in the United States.
“Michigan doctor, wife arrested for allegedly conspiring to perform female genital mutilation,” by Brooke Singman, Fox News, April 21, 2017 (thanks to Robert):
A Michigan doctor and his wife were arrested and charged Friday morning for allegedly conspiring to perform female genital mutilation on minors, according to the U.S. Department of Justice.
Dr. Fakhruddin Attar and his wife, Farida Attar, were arrested just one week after officials arrested another Michigan-based doctor, Jumama Nagarwala, for performing FGM. Nagarwala is an emergency room doctor in Detroit.
The Attars allegedly arranged and assisted Nagarwala in performing FGM out of a medical clinic that Dr. Attar owns in Livonia, Mich. Attar’s wife works at the clinic as office manager. The three are believed to be the first people charged under a federal law that criminalizes female genital mutilation (FGM).
According to the criminal complaint, some of Attar’s victims, ranging from ages 6 to 8, are believed to have traveled interstate to have the procedure performed.
Female genital mutilation is prevalent in some majority Muslim countries and is sometimes called “cleansing” by its practitioners. It involves the partial or total removal of the external female genitalia, often performed without anesthesia. It is designed to ensure females remain virgins until marriage.
According to a 2013 census by the Population Reference Bureau, approximately 500,000 women and girls in the United States have undergone the procedure or are at risk of the procedure….
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
These guys see clitorises as lawn clippings. Snip snip snip to keep things under control. And maybe the de-sexed Moslimas should appreciate it, it would be an ugly and disturbing thing to take pleasure from a hairy Moslem man filled with Islam. Yech.
Troybeam says
Americans here’s the truth, research for yourself.
In this book, in the section titled “THE BODY”, we find on page 59 the following entry:
Nuh Hah Mim Keller’s Translation Arabic Original
e4.3 Circumcision is obligatory (O: for both men and women. For men it consists of removing the prepuce from the penis, and for women, removing the prepuce (Ar. Bazr) of the clitoris (n: not the clitoris itself, as some mistakenly assert). (A: Hanbalis hold that circumcision of women is not obligatory but sunna, while Hanafis consider it a mere courtesy to the husband.)”
However what the Arabic actually says is:
Circumcision is obligatory (for every male and female)
by cutting off the piece of skin on the glans of the penis of the male,
but circumcision of the female is by cutting out the clitoris
(this is called HufaaD). {bold emphasis ours}
The Arabic word bazr does not mean “prepuce of the clitoris”, it means the clitoris itself (cf. the entry in the Arabic-English Dictionary). The deceptive translation by Nuh Hah Mim Keller, made for Western consumption, obscures the Shafi’i law, given by ‘Umdat al-Salik, that circumcision of girls by excision of the clitoris is mandatory. This particular form of female circumcision is widely practiced in Egypt, where the Shafi’i school of Sunni law is followed.
http://www.answering-islam.org/index.html
gravenimage says
Exactly–FGM is about cutting out the clitoris. That is the whole point–to control women by rendering them incapable of enjoying sex.
Oliver says
These two are connected to the doctor previously arrested. Are there others either connected or doing the same. Both on Michigan and elsewhere.
If the number of 500,000 is reasonably accurate. There must be
Hindu American says
If a doctor who looked like this guy came up to me and said “Hi, I am the doctor assigned to your case”, I would immediately ask for another doctor. No disrespect to the medical profession (I have several doctors in my family) but come on, shouldn’t this guy at least trim his beard and take off that offensive cap when in a hospital setting?
Mockingjay says
I generally wouldn’t opt for a muslim doctor either – but I’d take the hindu doctor anytime!
gravenimage says
Yes–this guy would scare the hell out of me.
mgoldberg says
The question is of course the differences in Islam’s male and female circumcision. The male circumciscion does not diminish sexual pleasure, the female clitorectomy is done to do just that. There is no jewish female circumcision, and in fact, the distinction between the two are rather profound.
Consider the same problem with kashrut, and the copied inferior practice of halal. In Judaism, Kasruth is more extensive clearly than halal but it has no condemnation for those who don’t prectice this, as there is no such obligation to do so. So you don’t have jews running around threatening people, restaurantts for serving pork, whereas in Islam, you have this happening all the time, and also on the personal level- you have the arrogant attacks by Jihadists on non muslims saying just that kind of slur before threatening them. We do need to drill down ( no pun intended) to establish the context and content of these differences before the muslims start crying about civil rights, and civil liberties et al.
Mockingjay says
Yes, mgoldberg, I have often wondered about this: do the jews feel that people who don’t follow their food rules, f.e., non-jews who eat pork, are therefore “unclean” and are viewed as inferior because of it?
– I already didn’t think this was the case, and you have now confirmed it.
– Yet it is so very, VERY telling that muslims seem to explicitly use THEIR food rules to look down upon everyone who does not follow these as “dirty”.
– Abiding by food rules in islam has nothing to do with maintaining the health of the body, or acquiring “spiritual purity” – it is mainly used as just another pretence to allow muslims to feel separate and, most of all, SUPERIOR to non-muslims, I would contend.
AnswersFromGod.com says
MockingJay,
Your comment brought a particular Scripture to mind:
(emphasis added)
FYI, personally, I do not believe that the dietary laws that יהוה instituted were done away with, and (as with all of the other Laws of יהוה) they were given for our (humanity’s) good, not to restrict our joy.
AnswersFromGod.com
Anne Smith says
The prohibition on pork for Jews was a sensible measure designed to prevent infection by Taenia Solium, the pork tapeworm. In hot countries with no refrigeration this was prevalent and dangerous and in those days there was no cure for those infected.
Nowadays in the West the beef tapeworm is actually more prevalent, and improved hygiene and farming methods have virtually eradicated tapeworms (unless people choose to eat uncooked food).
It seems the Muslims are permanently stuck in the 7th century.
Jeanette says
Just get them out of the West!
Perhaps there is such a thing as reincarnation, and being born a female in a Muslim horde is a punishment!
At any rate, we can’t make them behave decently and we can’t afford to support them.
Contain them in the middle east, and check on how many of each other they have killed every five or ten years.
And let us get on with reasonably pleasant lives.
mortimer says
‘PRIMUM NON DOCERE’ (first of all, do no harm) is a guiding principle of all doctors, unless you are a Muslim whose religion demands cruel punishments and warfare against the disbelievers and HATRED OF DISBELIEVERS ‘for the sake of Allah’.
Perhaps, ALL doctors who call themselves ‘Muslim’ do not accept the ESSENTIAL doctrine of AL WALAA WAL BARAA (Islamic apartheid), but how can anyone trust a doctor whose religion COMMANDS HIM/HER to HATE, DESPISE, NOT SUPPORT a dirty kafir ‘for the sake of Allah’.
Will a doctor who HATES KAFIRS for the sake of Allah, give non-Muslim patients a suitable level of care? Why don’t these ‘Muslim’ doctors simply leave Islam, because AL WALAA WAL BARAA is incompatible with the ethical standard of medicine?
gravenimage says
Good points, Mortimer.
salim says
Robert, I admire you and your profound knowledge in Islam, which has been proved time and time again, but are you sure that female circumcision is obligatory in Islam?
Please allow me to explain why I am not convinced: Obligatory things (called furud) are usually ordered in the Quran. The optional ones are called sunan, which are Mohammed’s practices or orders that were not mentioned in the Quran. Muslims can still be called Muslims even if they reject most of the hadith (sunan, the optional things) even though they would be regarded as “low quality” muslims.
There is no order in the Quran to do circumcision.
Yes all Muslims do male circumcision, which is why it appears to all (Muslims and non Muslims) as mandatory but it is not.
As to female circumcision, most Muslims do NOT practice it and frown at the practice. It is practiced in Sudan/Somalia and used to be common in Egypt but not anymore. It is NOT practiced at all in Syria, Iraq and the Gulf states. I don’t even think there was a time when female circumcision was practiced in those countries.
Another point: Mohammed himself was NOT circumcised. As far as I know there is no evidence (and no reason) that he was circumcised as a child because he wasn’t a Muslim. Circumcision for an adult is a risky procedure even today that must be expected to be mentioned in sira, if it happened.
However, I agree that FGM will become more common because more Muslims are going back to sunan without knowledge they are optional. examples: Muslims tend to slaughter animals on Eid Al Adha (only pilgrims MUST do that, the other optional); Muslim men and women tend to perform Eid prayers in mosques (they don’t have to as long as “some” of them do it …)
mortimer says
FGM Compulsory Female Circumcision Not an Inherited Custom but Sunna
Cutting out the clitoris is obligatory
e4.3 Circumcision is obligatory (for every male and female) by cutting off the piece of skin on the glans of the penis of the male, but circumcision of the female is by cutting out the clitoris (this is called Hufaad)
– Reliance of the Traveller: A Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law
Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri
Fitrah is five things, including circumcision
Note that the rule of hadith dictate that if it is not mentioned specifically or if the pronouns do not point to a certain gender, then the hadith is valid for both sexes. Hence, the following hadiths are applicable for both men and women.
Abu Hurayrah said: I heard the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “The fitrah is five things – or five things are part of the fitrah – circumcision, shaving the pubes, trimming the moustache, cutting the nails and plucking the armpit hairs.” – Bukhari 5891; Muslim 527
A preservation of honor for women
Abu al- Malih ibn `Usama’s father relates that the Prophet said: “Circumcision is a law for men and a preservation of honour for women.” – Ahmad Ibn Hanbal 5:75; Abu Dawud, Adab 167.
Modern FATWA
Fuqaha’ of Islam are agreed that it is prescribed, not an inherited custom[edit]
Firstly:
Circumcision is not an inherited custom as some people claim, rather it is prescribed in Islam and the scholars are unanimously agreed that it is prescribed. Not a single Muslim scholar – as far as we know – has said that circumcision is not prescribed.
Circumcision of girls and some doctors’ criticism thereof – Islam Q&A, Fatwa No. 60314
salim says
mortimer,
{FGM Compulsory Female Circumcision Not an Inherited Custom but Sunna}
[Cutting out the clitoris is obligatory]
You say it is Sunna then you say it is obligatory. I find this confusing.
Obligatory (Furud) are rituals that Muslims MUST do, and they get punished in hell if they don’t. Sunna: are rituals that Muslims are “advised” to do to earn more “hasanat” (good deeds) but they do not get punished if they don’t. Muslims who on purpose do not practice “Furud” can be considered infidels.
Furud (obligatory) are mentioned in detail or briefly in the Quran, Sunna is mentioned in hadith, not in the Quran.
An Islamic ritual cannot become obligatory because it is mentioned in the reliance of traveller’s unless it is in the Quran. Circumcision is not mentioned in the Quran. The fact that ALL Muslims do it (for males) makes it “appear” to be obligatory but it is not.
FGM is neither in the Quran neither practiced by main stream Muslims. Trust me, if it is obligatory, the Saudis would be the first to practice it but they don’t.
Muslims practice Islam based on Quran and Sunna (Bukhari &Muslim) and the practices of the four Scholars Abu Hanafa, Shafi, Ibn Hanbal and Malik, the reliance of travellers doesn’t have the high status as you seem to think. I am talking about Sunni Islam, which is my background. Shia may have different interpretation but as far as I know FGM is not practiced in Iran.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
mortimer says
Not correcting you, Salim, but just reading (and trying to understand) what the mullahs say. ‘Sunna’ is the ‘traditions of Mohammed and his companions’, rather than a ‘local or national or regional custom’ … for instance, a regional custom in Africa). That is my understanding of what the MULLAHS say.
While you rightly point out FGM is not in the Koran, it is definitely in the Sunna of Mohammed. How else do you account for the prevalence of FGM?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_female_genital_mutilation_by_country
Bottom line: one mullah contradicts another, but Reliance of the Traveller says it is COMPULSORY.
However, that doesn’t mean that ‘local or regional custom’ is NOT a factor. It appears to be a major factor.
So, a mullah who supports FGM will say it is the Sunna of Mohammed, while a mullah who opposes FGM will say it is NOT Sunna.
salim says
Thanks mortimer,
Many readers here are well educated about Islam, you one of them.
Robert Spencer is an authority, which gives credibility to JW and to our campaign to tell the truth about Islam. I do not want Muslims to use any blemishes on JW to discredit it. When I make a comment on Islamic issues I aim to clear any such blemishes. My point of view is likely to be the same point of view of a Muslim scholar reading the article. I spent 40 years of my life practicing that religion and try to put my experience into a good use.
On the other hand, when I comment on political Islam, its just a personal opinion.
Veka Fitzfrancis says
Sounds to me like female genital mutilation will be yet another excuse for Muslims to kill other Muslims over, since the mullahs can’t agree.
gravenimage says
Salim, you are right that FGM is not mentioned in the Qur’an. It is certainly mentioned in the Hadith, though, and was approved of by the “Prophet”.
And of the four schools of Sunni Islamic jurisprudence, the Shafi’i and Hanbali schools of Islamic jurisprudence consider circumcision to be obligatory for both males and females, while the Hanafi and Maliki schools of Islamic jurisprudence consider circumcision to be Sunnah (preferred) for both males and females.
No orthodox school condemns the the practice.
While you are correct that FGM is not universally practiced in Islam, it is quite widely practiced, and is frequently defended on Islamic grounds:
“Muslim cleric urges female genital mutilation”
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/05/muslim-cleric-urges-female-genital-mutilation
“Russia: Muslim cleric says ‘all women should be circumcised’”
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/08/russia-muslim-cleric-says-all-women-should-be-circumcised
There are many similar stories.
And I am afraid that you belief that FGM is not longer common in Egypt is mistaken. In fact, 95% of girls in Egypt suffer mutilation.
rico says
FGM is not mentioned in the Quran. Had Muhammad disapproved of FGM, directives would have been given to prohibit the practice. They weren’t. Simply, the man could not have cared less about the suffering caused by this form of mutilation.
August West says
Salim – I assume you already know the rather obvious answer to your question but in case you don’t.
Regional variance among Islamic populations with regard to practices such as FGM are explained by the requirements of the 4 schools of Sunni Islamic Law. In the case of FGM there is variance between the different schools:
Shaf’i – Obligatory
Hanbali – Honorable and strongly encouraged
Maliki – optional and preferred
Hanafi – Preferred
The fact that it may or may not be practiced is explained by this fact and also by the fact that many people don’t practice their religion to the letter or are not informed.
No Sunni Islamic school forbids it which is the point.
salim says
My first comment was to protest for the use of the word “obligatory” which I understood to mean “Fardh” (plural “furud”) (which Muslims MUST do to remain Muslims).
Furud are mentioned in the Quran, but you don’t read about circumcision in the Quran.
Al Shafi’i didn’t say it is fardh but “wajeb” which has been translated to mean “obligatory” but I would translate it as “a duty” . I now feel this is the source of all the confusion. “Wageb” is different from fardh. The scholars who follow Al Shafi’i ( e.g. Qardawi) teach that it applies to males, not females.
August West says
The Reliance of the Traveler is clear that this practice is obligatory.
This is on page 59. You should read that.
In 1991 Al Azhar certified that this book and the English translation both comply with Islamic teaching. This certification visible in the early portions of the book. Until you can produce proof that Al Azhar certifies your translation, then I am going with Reliance of the Traveler.
In any event, whether or not it is a obligatory or optional or a duty is not relevant to any objective person. It certainly is not relevant to the victims – they have no choice in the matter. What is relevant is that there is no Islamic school that expressly forbids it.
If you disagree then I would say that you should produce the Islamic teaching that clearly forbids FGM and you should produce the Islamic document that specifies the punishment.
Can you produce a proclamation/statement or law from credible Islamic source that states that FGM is un-Islamic and specifies a punishment for FGM?
I can produce US legislation that expressly forbids it and provides a punishment.
carol says
Salim…I posted the link below recently and am sure you’ll find it of interest. AM760 (a generally right-leaning station) is annoying me lately by emphasizing that ‘FGM is practiced by people of MANY RELIGIONS – even Christian (first I’ve ever heard of this, but I guess in deepest Africa and the Copts)…and it is NOT advocated by Islam” (sic). To mislead is first cousin to the lie. The shoe fits and Islam should wear it and what is actually practiced is of more import than who said what when etc.
This well-researched article is from The Middle East Forum: http://www.meforum.org/1629/is-female-genital-mutilation-an-islamic-problem
carol says
Salim…Robert Spencer was quoting ‘Umdat al-Salik e4.3, translated by Mark Durie, The Third Choice, p. 64 when the word “obligatory” was first used in this article. He went on from that point and may have inadvertently given the impression this was his opinion also (but I doubt it as he’s too expert).
I posted a well-researched link recently and offer it again below. I’m sure you’ll find it of interest and may wish to comment. AM760 (a generally right-leaning station) is annoying me lately by making very, very sure it informs its illiterate audience that ‘FGM is practiced by people of MANY RELIGIONS – even Christians (first I’ve EVER heard of this – but I guess in deepest Africa, plus the Copts)…and it is NOT advocated by Islam” (sic). To mislead is first cousin to the lie. I think the shoe fits Islam best of all and they thus should wear it. What happens in actual practice often differs from the storyline and is of more immediate relevance than who said what when etc.
This article is from The Middle East Forum: http://www.meforum.org/1629/is-female-genital-mutilation-an-islamic-problem
Charli Main says
Human society would be incalculably improved, if instead of just removing the skin on the glans of the penises of Muslim men, their testicles were removed as well.
Jeanette says
Bingo!
utis says
500, 000 women. Just in the USA. Yet feminists are worrying about hijab-deprived muslimas (a garment that became a muslim fad only after 9/11). Until I see a “Stop FGM” sign at one of their ego-parties (I mean protests), American feminism is dead to me.
I mean, we’re talking about kids, babies, even, having this mutilation inflicted on them without their consent. Where is the freedom? Where is the equality? Where is the empathy?
Jeanette says
Maybe Muslims are demons, not humans. They certainly behave like demons.
AnswersFromGod.com says
Surprise, surprise: They have not respect for the law.
http://AnswersFromGod.com/JihadWatch=michigan-another-muslim-doctor-and-his-wife-arrested-for-conspiring-to-perform-female-genital-mutilation
concerned says
thanks to you guys versed in islamic study.
i was just hit with the statement some cultures find our practice of circumcision barbaric. and i dont buy into islamaphobia.
wtf.
Jedothek says
We need a much more public and explicit debate over circumcision of male infants. There are those who think they can make a rational case for this practice but too often they are not even challenged.
Jeanette says
We can address that after we get the Muslims out of America.
First we need to use FGM as a way to accomplish that, by letting American women know what Muslims are beginning to call for – that THEY and THEIR daughters be forcibly Muslim-mutilated.
http://bing.com/videos/search?q=ann+barnhardt+video+islam+sexual&view=detail&mid=78659C23DF2A43376AC778659C23DF2A43376AC7&FORM=VIRE
Carolyne says
Concerned—Your comments are somewhat unclear. Are you saying that you do not find the practice of female genital mutilation barbaric? Are you suggesting that to oppose this inhumane and cruel treatment of women to be Islamaphobic? Are you insane?
abad says
I personally know parents who did not even get their sons circumcised as they find it to be a primitive Judaic practice (pagans did not practice male circumcision; neither did the Zoroastrians in Iran before Islam took over that nation).
As for these two Muslim “doctors” performing female circumcision they need to be arrested and deported. Send them to Syria. Barbarians
somehistory says
I read, many years ago, some information on the practice. Pediatricians were not in favor unless there was a medical reason for the operation.
One pediatrician did a serious study and found that a newborn undergoing the procedure are in the same stress as an adult having a major heart attack.
I listened to a tape she had made. The screams were terrible. There is no anesthetic and there is great pain for the infant. Some people may disagree.
Also, it is not the pediatrician who performs the operation, it is the ob/gyn who delivers. The baby is not their immediate concern after it is born, but they do get paid for it. Pediatricians are normally against their patients being operated on. Who knows best for a newborn…ob/gyn, the woman’s doctor…or pediatrician, the baby’s doctor?
I’m not trying, not interested, in starting a debate or argument. Each person must make choices for their children and each will face whatever consequences come with such choices. But, as for myself, I cannot agree that children without a medical need, should suffer such as this. And if there is a medical need, but it is not urgent, that can wait until the child is old enough to be given pain medication to dull the affects.
I know what the Bible says. But our God is One of Love and Kindness and Mercy. And children in America are not in the sandy desert when born. Most are in the hospital.
Jeanette says
But the actual procedure is merely the beginning of LIFELONG suffering.
29:00 – 35:00
http://bing.com/videos/search?q=ann+barnhardt+video+islam+sexual&view=detail&mid=78659C23DF2A43376AC778659C23DF2A43376AC7&FORM=VIRE
Mahendra Singh says
This guy is a doctor? Now when you think about getting treatment
first take a look at him. The clinic or hospital can help by including his
or her photo in their promo.
Nagarwala was an Indian or a Paki MUSLIM. I can tell. But which country does
this doc represent? Prospective patients must also ask what is the sex and religion
of the doctor who will do surgery on you. You might end up with a surgeon wearing
a full burka groping for your organ with a knife in the other hand. Allah….o….Allah.
Richard Paulsen says
Terrible with these never ending wars between muslims. Also terribe to see how primitive the hospitals and medical care are in arabstates.
Where did the assistance money from non Muslim countries go? Not for medical care. Still allowed to come to Europe and USA. Insulting.
Carolyne says
I believe that most hospitals in the Middle East are run by and staffed by Westerners. It seems that Muslims lack the intelligence to become good doctors. Comes from marrying one’s cousin for generations
Oliver says
My sister needed some specialized surgery. Went to a top hospital, and the doctor who was most successful with that type of surgery was a graduate of THE UNIVERSITY OF DAMASCUS (OR, PERHAPS DAMASCUS UNIVERSITY-NOT SURE OF THE ORDER) MEDICAL SCHOOL.
My sister was, to put it mildly, apprehensive- but he put her at ease.
Operation was a great success.
No clue if he was a Muslim or Christian (he has been in the US for several decades-like 20-25 years or so) but he said that he looks at patients at people, and the Good Lord gave him a skill to help save lives.
Perhaps he is (or was) a Christian, not a Muslim, but whatever- he is a good doctor. And went to a medical school in an Arab Muslim country.
carol says
My guess is he’s Muslim e.g. he “looks at patients as people”. That would go without saying in most cultures.
Nigel GFF says
… tip of the iceberg.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-39630199
Still, good to see the odd, very odd, prosecution.
Lilythewise says
Deport these people already.
Jeanette says
To do that, we need to alert American women that the Muslims are beginning to call for ALL girls and women to be Muslim-mutilated. HIllary’s Huma has a mother who writes and publishes books pushing that very butchery.
Once American women wake up to just that one issue – FGM – we will have little trouble removing the Muslims.
29:00 – 35:00:
http://bing.com/videos/search?q=ann+barnhardt+video+islam+sexual&view=detail&mid=78659C23DF2A43376AC778659C23DF2A43376AC7&FORM=VIRE
Jedothek says
Robert is using bad logic here. He says that Muhammad is held to have said that female genital mutilation is obligatory: then his two cited texts fail to support this characterization.
1. The quote from Ibn Hanbal contrasts circumcision for men , which is a law, with circumcision for women , which is merely “a preservation of honour,” which seems to imply that F G M is not legally required but only recommended.
2. The quote from Abu Dawud says “do not cut severely” which is satisfied by not cutting: therefore again it does not require F G M.
gravenimage says
Jedothek, the idea that “do not cut severely” means “do not cut” does not hold water.
It might mean, “hey, try not to cut off the girl’s legs while you are at it”.
Jeanette says
Or, “Do not cut her in such a way that she cannot serve as a broodmare for Islam.”
gravenimage says
Exactly, Jeanette.
Jedothek says
The word “means” in your post is so vague as to be useless.
If a court orders you not to drive your car outside Cook County, and you do not drive your car at all, you are in compliance.
Therefore, if the hadith says “do not cut severely,” and one does not cut at all, one is in compliance.
carol says
Jedothek…like Salim you seem to be overlooking Robert’s use of “obligatory” within his very first quoted example and you skipped past this to mention only his next two examples (although his later wording did seem to suggest he went along with “obligatory”):
“Circumcision is OBLIGATORY (for every male and female) (by cutting off the piece of skin on the glans of the penis of the male, but circumcision of the female is by cutting out the bazr ‘clitoris’ [this is called khufaadh ‘female circumcision’]).” — ‘Umdat al-Salik e4.3, translated by Mark Durie, The Third Choice, p. 64
Since firm proclamations and Mohammed statements re circumcision are apparently not in the Koran itself then we probably can’t claim it is “obligatory” – but for real world ramifications we all know that once there is even a bare hint that Mohammed approves of a practice then his most fervent fans/mimics will feel compelled to jump on the bandwagon for another wild and crazy ride (at whomever’s expense).
Jedothek says
I was not disputing that the‘Umdat al-Salik requires FGM; I was disputing Robert’s statement , “Why is it obligatory? Because Muhammad is held to have said so.”
somehistory says
Hideous, dirty-looking, creature…*dr* fak*….Fake doctor. Wonder where he supposedly obtained his degrees and got a license to *operate*.
If you see anyone like this nasty guy, coming toward you with scissors, knife or otherwise, run…run like the wind if you are able. He can offer nothing good.
Poor, poor children. It’s beyond belief that this has been going on and no one has complained before now. Except that for eight years, one who likely approves was in charge. How do lynch and holder sleep at night?
Jeanette says
We couldn’t get people to pay attention to heads being sawed off for a long time. FGM was way down the list from that!
tgusa says
For most of US history you didn’t need to ask the religion of someone who was performing a service for or on you but thanks to those who should have known better you do now. What a nice change, not!
tgusa says
A California democrat congressman recently told an 11 year old girl that Trump is the greater terrorist. Democrats don’t and won’t have a problem with this because, Trump! And us. There are many in the USA who deserve to be condemned to spending the rest of their lives among these people and only these people.
Matthieu Baudin says
“… If now, during the Trump administration, American officials have suddenly decided to begin prosecuting those who mutilate girls’ genitals, there will be many more such arrests…”
Let us hope so. It has been the political leadership, at both national and state/provincial levels, in numerous countries, who have given, at best, ambiguous messages about pursuing the prosecution of perpetrators of Female Genital Butchery. The consequence has been, predictably, next to no action. If the Trump Administration can gather momentum around this issue then other countries will also join in this crusade. We want nothing less than to put Female Genital Mutilation into the rubbish bin of history. The United Kingdom has been particularly slow in making ground on the issue; one would have hoped that with a new Female Prime Minister the flag could have been raised and prosecutions begun, but perhaps she is as indifferent to the widespread sexual abuse/assault of girls within cultural minorities as were her predecessors. Could this become a prominent issue in the upcoming UK Elections? I hope so.
Oliver says
Why would you want this to be an issue
Is Corbyn better
gravenimage says
Oliver, I don’t think anyone is implying that the appalling Islamophilic Jeremy Corbyn would be better–but surely it is appalling that no one in Britain is prosecuting this horrible crimes.
gravenimage says
Michigan: Another Muslim doctor and his wife arrested for conspiring to perform female genital mutilation
……………………..
*Appalling*. I wonder how many more Muslim “doctors” like Fakhruddin Attar and his repulsive wife are out there?
Just glad to see them arrested. If the Attars are foreign-born, they should be deported after (hopefully) they serve a nice long sentence in prison.
dumbledoresarmy says
“If the Attars are foreign-born, they should be deported after (hopefully) they serve a nice long sentence in prison.”
EXACTLY.
Perhaps ACT for America can apprise their membership – US-wide – of this case and encourage all members to get in touch with their congresspersons and with other relevant personages in the government – right on up to the POTUS – to demand exactly that: maximum applicable sentence in jail, followed by deportation. And to be quite frank, if the two ‘doctors’ have acquired US citizenship, it should be recommended that the law be rejigged so that such as they can be *stripped* of citizenship and sent right back to their Muslim hellhole of origin.
Jeanette says
They should only serve the amount of time that their assets will pay for.
Americans are already financially devastated by Muslim Obama; we shouldn’t be forced to support any more Muslims than we are already being forced to support.
We can strip people of citizenship – we just did it to an ex-al-Queda monster who was living in California.
gravenimage says
Very much agree.
Carolyne says
I would be interested in knowing whether this female doctor and the male doctor’s wife/office manager have had this procedure performed on them. If not, It should be——– without anesthetic.
Jeanette says
We should demand to see the results of examinations by non-Muslim physicians.
Jeanette says
I would be interested to know just how much the post FGM condition (giving the same sensation to the man as raping a little boy) played in Anthony Weiner’s interest in Hillary’s Muslim aide (and whatever else), Huma Abedin.
FYI, Huma’s mother writes and publishes books pushing the Muslim FGM of ALL girls and women, world wide (not just Muslims). Get THAT information to enough American women and we won’t have any trouble getting Muslims out of this country!
29:00 – 35:00:
http://bing.com/videos/search?q=ann+barnhardt+video+islam+sexual&view=detail&mid=78659C23DF2A43376AC778659C23DF2A43376AC7&FORM=VIRE
Tara says
It’s a true blessing that Hillary did not become US president. Huma, an overt jihadist, and Pakistani agent, would have been running the US understanding the diktat of sharia laws.
August West says
Upon further research…
It turns out that this doctor and related parties are dawoodi bohras. Evidently this is a sect of Shia Islam. There seem to be about 1m of them globally. Evidently they tend to gravitate toward professional fields such as medicine.
I read some reports that this activity is linked to a mosque in either Livonia or Farmington Hills which are two adjacent towns in the western Detroit suburbs.
Jeanette says
Their numbers undoubtedly proliferated greatly while Muslim Obama was playing president.
We will probably be stunned when the numbers are finally known.
Robert says
FGM sould be banned as a felony all over the world. And if it is part of a certain tradition, world view or religion, they should reform that
Jeanette says
The UN has sure been slow to categorize FGM as a human rights violation, hasn’t it? Same thing for polygamy.
Robert says
He is not the only Responsible , The Parents must also be Punished very hard
Jeanette says
Send them all back to the middle east.
TaxVictins can’t afford to finance the trials any more. We have people of our own who cannot pay their bills, thanks the Muslim Obama.
In this man’s case, pull his medical license before deporting him.
Carolyne says
I believe this to be a form of sexual assault and should be treated as such.
August West says
For those interested the Detroit Free Press has a front page story on this case.
As one would expect they obfuscate the islamic aspects, but it’s still worth reading.
Jeanette says
What a great place to put this (now famous?) six minute education on Muslim FGM, 29:00 – 35:00.
http://bing.com/videos/search?q=ann+barnhardt+video+islam+sexual&view=detail&mid=78659C23DF2A43376AC778659C23DF2A43376AC7&FORM=VIRE
Susette says
We must refrain from using the terms “circumcision” and “cutting” when speaking of Female Genital Mutilation. It is MUTILATION with the intent to deprive females of sexual pleasure. “Circumcision” and “cutting” are terms intended to make it palatable and religious, rather than criminal. I beg of you, NEVER refer to MUTILATION as “circumcision” or “cutting.”
August West says
A great point. It is essential to use descriptive and English language rather than politically correct and or islamic language.