Dr. Attar’s attorney Mary Chartier said: “I do believe that the government does not fully understand the religious practices of Dr. Attar and Dr. Attar’s religion, and I think that’s why we are in this courthouse today, and what we’ll be fighting over for the next few months.”
Indeed: the government is likely clueless as to the Islamic justifications for female genital mutilation. Chartier is getting right to the heart of the matter: apparently she intends to argue that female genital mutilation (contrary to constantly repeated establishment media myth) is justified in Islam, and that therefore Dr. Attar was just exercising his freedom of religion. If that is really what she intends to do, this will become a test case for the spread of Sharia practices in the U.S.: either Muslims will be allowed to violate existing U.S. laws under the rubric of the freedom of religion, or they will be called upon to obey U.S. laws even when those laws conflict with the teachings of Islam. If the court rules for the latter, the U.S. will have a chance to continue to exist as a free society. If the court rules for the former, it will be opening the door to all manner of jihad activity and Sharia practices that violate laws regarding equality of rights and equality of access to services, and no one will be able to say a word against the spread of Sharia in the U.S.
“They have a religious belief to practice their religion. And they are Muslims and they’re being under attack because of it. I believe that they are being persecuted because of their religious beliefs and I do not make that allegation lightly,” Chartier said….
No, they’re “being under attack” for mutilating girls’ genitals. But Chartier is right: female genital mutilation is indeed sanctioned in Islam. “Circumcision is obligatory (for every male and female) (by cutting off the piece of skin on the glans of the penis of the male, but circumcision of the female is by cutting out the bazr ‘clitoris’ [this is called khufaadh ‘female circumcision’]).” — ‘Umdat al-Salik e4.3, translated by Mark Durie, The Third Choice, p. 64
Why is it obligatory? Because Muhammad is held to have said so: “Abu al- Malih ibn Usama’s father relates that the Prophet said: ‘Circumcision is a law for men and a preservation of honour for women.’” — Ahmad Ibn Hanbal 5:75
“Narrated Umm Atiyyah al-Ansariyyah: A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina. The Prophet (peace be upon him) said to her: ‘Do not cut severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband.’” — Abu Dawud 41:5251
“Do not cut severely,” but not “Do not cut.”
That’s why it is so common around the world. A Muslim cleric in Russia said that “all women should be circumcised.” A Muslim cleric in India likewise urged that it be done. A Muslim cleric in Australia said that Islamic law permitted the practice. A leading U.S. Muslim jurist from the Assembly of Muslim Jurists of America (AMJA) said it was an “honor” in Islam. A marabout — a Muslim holy man — was arrested in France for having it done on his daughters. In the UK, there were 5,500 cases of FGM in 2016 alone. It is commonly claimed to be an East African problem, but 93% of Muslim women in Malaysia have suffered this procedure, and it is common in Indonesia. In one province in Iran, 60% of the women have suffered FGM.
It is certain to become increasingly common in the United States. And if Mary Chartier succeeds, it will become legal, as a matter of freedom of religion. This case bears close watching.
“Prosecutor: ‘Brutal’ genital mutilation won’t be tolerated in US,” by Mayra Cuevas and Sonia Moghe, CNN, April 26, 2017 (thanks to Charles):
(CNN)Two Michigan doctors and a medical office manager were indicted Wednesday by a Detroit grand jury in the first federal female genital mutilation case in the United States.
Detroit emergency room physician Dr. Jumana Nagarwala, internal medicine physician Dr. Fakhruddin Attar and his wife, Farida Attar, face one count of conspiracy to commit female genital mutilation, two counts of female genital mutilation and one count of conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding.Doctors Nagarwala, 44, and Attar, 53, also face one count of conspiracy to transport a minor with intent to engage in criminal sexual activity — a charge that carries a potential sentence of up to life in prison.
Both doctors also face one count each of making a false statement to a federal officer.
“Female Genital Mutilation has serious implications for the health and well-being of girls and women,” said Daniel Lemisch, acting US Attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan.
“This brutal practice is conducted on girls for one reason, to control them as women. FGM will not be tolerated in the United States,” the prosecutor said in a statement. “The federal government is continuing this investigation to ensure those responsible are brought to justice.”
The defendants have not entered pleas, but attorneys for all three argue their clients are not guilty of all charges.
According to the indictment and a criminal complaint filed against Nagarwala, the investigation into Nagarwala and the Attars dates back to October of 2016. The FBI had received information that the banned procedure was being performed at the Attar’s medical office in Livonia, Michigan, west of Detroit. Court documents do not indicate the source of the information.
Investigators saw two 7-year-old girls and their mothers arrive at the Burhani Medical Clinic, which Attar owns, after having traveled from Minnesota. Attar, his wife and Nagarwala were already inside.
Investigators said interviews with the girls and medical exams conducted after the visit to the clinic, revealed both girls had been victims of female genital mutilation — a painful surgical procedure to remove part of the clitoris or clitoral hood to suppress female sexuality.
Both girls, their parents and the three defendants are members of the Dawoodi Bohra Islamic sect, according to the criminal complaint.
According to the indictment:
— The three defendants had conspired to perform the procedure on girls under 18 years of age since 2005.
— Attar allowed Nagarwala to perform the procedure at his clinic after it was closed for the day. He was present at the clinic during the procedure, while his wife, Farida, assisted Nagarwala in the examination room.
— Attar and Nagarwala agreed to make false statements to law enforcement regarding whether the procedure took place.
— The three defendants told others not to speak about the procedure and to lie to federal investigators about the procedure.
— Attar and Nagarwala took steps to delete evidence.
— Nagarwala told investigators she had never been present or had knowledge that this procedure was being performed on children.
— Attar told investigators this procedure had not taken place at his clinic.Attorney: Procedure is ‘religious practice’
The Attars were scheduled to be in court Wednesday for a detention hearing, but after the indictment was released that hearing was postponed until May 3.
Dr. Attar’s attorney Mary Chartier, who spoke to reporters after Wednesday’s initial appearance, said her client is “not aware of any crimes committed at his clinic” and that “what happened at the clinic was not FGM.”
“He was aware that Dr. Nagarwala used the clinic. He offered that to her and let her do that,” Chartier said. Chartier said that Attar was never present in the examination room and that he never “met these girls.”
Chartier said that at the heart of her client’s defense is a misunderstanding over his religious practice. When asked to clarify what that practice was, she did not respond.
“I do believe that the government does not fully understand the religious practices of Dr. Attar and Dr. Attar’s religion, and I think that’s why we are in this courthouse today, and what we’ll be fighting over for the next few months,” Chartier said.
“They have a religious belief to practice their religion. And they are Muslims and they’re being under attack because of it. I believe that they are being persecuted because of their religious beliefs and I do not make that allegation lightly,” Chartier said….
Red Bee says
Rape is a barbarian war tactic. Put these Muslims in a POW camp for the duration of the conflict.
http://www.redbee.website
tom parry says
Before sending the doctor and parents to a prison camp and then an empty desert in syria, be sure to do the correct musilim procedures for the mother and doctor- the father should be castrated as part of the judgment sentencening.
screenstarr says
The doctor and his wife need to be found guilty first. If they are not found guilty, our country is in deep trouble. I am all for equal treatment for everyone, but it is unconscionable to expect to receive — or to award — special treatment to anyone or to any group. It is especially true is this case, where it is a breach of U.S. law and causes pain and suffering to people. Shame on Mary Chartier.
maghan says
She is a stupid lawyer because ANY practice no matter how barbaric could be excused under color of religion. Religious beliefs are just BELIEFS that could be subjected to epistemological analysis just like another set of beliefs.
If this dumb lawyer had any logical sense, would she justify human sacrifice and cannibalism on “religious grounds”.
By the way, the Aztec religion practiced the religious ritual of gouging out the the hearts of living victims to appease their gods. Would this fool lawyer defend that practice on religious grounds? The head-scratching thing is why should religious beliefs be granted special status as distinct from other beliefs?
Bindon Blood says
Supposing devout Hindus wanted to practice the ancient religious ritual of suttee whereby the widow of a deceased man is burnt alive on the funeral pyre ,sometimes voluntary. Should that be allowed? It is banned in India but still happens in remote areas. How about child sacrifice advocated in satanic practice or other abominations? Of course we in the West cannot stand by as little girls are mutilated in the name of an alien ideology. It is monstrous. Anyone who argues for its continuance is a menace to civilized society.
gravenimage says
The lawyer thinks this tack may be successful. Let’s hope the judge shoots this down.
Terry says
ALL defendants ARE ENTITLE TO COUNSEL. AND THE COUNSEL IS SUPPOSED TO DO HIS/HER BEST FOR THE CLIENT. REGARDLESS OF THE COUNSEL’S VIEWPOINTS.
OR, DO YOU PREFER THE KANGAROO COURTS LIKE IRAN; CHECHNYA; ETC?
Terry says
4th word- first line in my response ENTITLED. (D left off)
Carolyne says
And since the lawyer sees nothing wrong with it, let her be subjected to this barbaric practice, too.
There are limitations to religious practices under US law. Humans may not be sacrificed and may not be beheaded as part of religious practices, which, btw, Islam calls for. Animals may not be sacrificed in the street as happens in most Islamic countries. And women may not be mutilated as part of some inhumane religious practice.
Anne Smith says
Immigrants and their children should be medically examined before entering another country. Those who have subjected their children to this mutilation should not be admitted to the US or the UK. They should be returned to their primitive 7th century countries without delay.
BC says
That the lawyer is a woman and uttering this nonsense is especially egregious. Would she like her own daughters to have this mutilation done to them or have done herself. I doubt it very much!
What is done to males is a simple procedure which makes no difference to their enjoyment of sexual pleasure. For the female it is the destruction of sexual pleasure.
maghan says
100% correct that FGM is a cruel, primitive, barbaric Arab/Islamic derived practice, but because of the ignorance of human physiology on the part of the primitives, research has shown that there a re 2 kinds of female orgasm: clitoral and vaginal. The so-called “G-Spot” is used as evidence for such–for those researchers who claim that orgasms derived from that physiological area are more intense than otherwise.
carol says
maghan…I would suspect that any classic orgasm would depend on clitoral nerves being present. I wonder if there’s any research on this? The Sunnis apparently practice the milder “hood” version of FGM (nonetheless a dangerously invasive and totally worthless procedure for a female – who is designed to have natural cleansing and lubrication). I’ve also seen videos of their great bearded “surgeons” where they speak of how it’s such a kindness to let the knife slip further when they see too much “potential for uncomfortable protrusion” etc. Their storylines can’t be trusted – It’s all about control and callousness.
gravenimage says
You are quite right, Carol. Women who have had their clitoris removed are incapable of orgasm.
Really, that is the whole point of FGM.
Don Foss says
It’s Muslimas under attack.
Westman says
With scalpels, knives, razor blades, and rusty farm tools. “..noxamvero et maleficium propulsabo (Also … I will utterly reject harm and mischief) is part of the Hippocratic Oath. These doctors are in violation of medical standards. Here is one instance that calls for a “Trump Tweet”. Could the media resist?
Red Bee says
Indeed they are! And we ought to make them choose our side & win the war.
Red Bee says
Or the other way around of course:)
gravenimage says
Of course, a lot of times–as here–it is the Muslimahs mutilating the girls.
Jacqueline Balodis says
If this religious tenet is allowed by court I wonder why Christians have federal laws against their beliefs i.e. Unable to counsel against a person questioning if they should have sexual assignments surgery or if a person wants to leave the homosexual lifestyle. Why can’t we teach against socially “accepted” life styles. If such is preached from the pulpit a prison term can be the result. I know a pastor serving a long sentence because he preached against homosexuality and refused to marry a same sex couple. How about the bakery who refused to make a cake for a same sex marriage. I could give additional examples how Christian and Jewish religious practices and beliefs are illegal. Why does Islam religion get special accommodations. My great granddaughter can’t wear a shirt with her beliefs on it without being expelled from school but there is a prayer room where Muslims can pray at required times. What happened to freedom of religion or separyof church and state.
gravenimage says
Where do you live? This is not happening in the US.
Diane Harvey says
David Wood has a recent, and quite good, video explaining the the Muslim texts’ sources requiring this practice,
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2017/04/linda-sarsour-caught-lying-about-female.html
PRCS says
Saw that yesterday.
Wonder if Sarsour watches his vids?
Rob says
Can we have someone (strong stomach required) check Loopy Linda’s pubes to see what she is missing.
Seriously where is there a vestige of informed consent in these cases?
Carolyne says
Children cannot give their consent, being minors. It is the parents who care so little for their daughters who give consent.
gravenimage says
David Wood’s stuff is always brilliant.
miriamrove says
In a way the lawyer is right. Violence/killing/beading and FGM are part of Islam. m
Bill W. says
I guess if they win there case Demini slaves, 4 wives for every male moslem and sex slaves cannot be far behind. How is that fact for all those woman that marched with those special pink hats protesting Trump?What about 9 year old child brides marry to 50 year old breaded goats ??It all part and package in there special we cannot talk about Islamic way of life. What about honor killing and beating your wife to a bloody pulp?
marie cameron says
They are already taking
4 wives and we are paying their welfare
We are being bled financially by these barbaric parasites Child
abusers! Jail the bastards!
If they win this case all hell will break out
Beheadings of us nonbelievers will become legal like all their other special exemptions to the USA law?
Spike1033 says
No judge would be so stupid as to accept this as a defense. If it were look at the other tenets of Islam: decapitating Christians and Jews etc.
FGM is the worst crime that I can imagine. Killing a man in a fair fight I can almost understand but cutting the sexual organ of a little defenseless girl thereby reducing her later sexual pleasure and, more importantly, laying her open to dangerous infection is the ultimate crime. It should carry the death sentence.
Catherine says
Let’s hope that they don’t get a Muslim judge!
john spielman says
it is irrelevant why she did it!
FGM is against the law of the land and for that she must be punished!
Strip of her medical licence and deport her back to CRAPISTAN!
PRCS says
Understand your point, but WHY she did it IS relevant.
She knew it was against U.S. law and intentionally did so nonetheless.
That she did so per her religious belief SHOULD be irrelevant–and I hope the trial makes that clear.
Carolyne says
I believe this woman was born in the US and therefore cannot be deported. It is amazing that Johns-Hopkins Medical School accepted her, knowing that she rejects lawful medical practice in favor of barbarism.
PRCS says
Did you read somewhere that the school actually knew that before accepting her?
maghan says
The lawyer is cruel and stupid but she may have a cynical motive for invoking the “religion argument” rather than the cultural argument. Male circumcision ONLY on religious grounds is not deemed illegal in the U.S. That’s why the cynical lawyer keeps referring to the practice as “circumcision”.
gravenimage says
maghan wrote:
The lawyer is cruel and stupid but she may have a cynical motive for invoking the “religion argument” rather than the cultural argument. Male circumcision ONLY on religious grounds is not deemed illegal in the U.S.
…………………….
Your belief that male circumcision is illegal in the US save on religious grounds is quite mistaken. At its height during the 1960s, 83% of boys were circumcised–the figure today is 77%. Still the majority; virtually the norm.
American boys of various religious–or non-religious–backgrounds are circumcised. Doctors used to routinely recommend it.
Of course, male circumcision is *nothing* like FGM.
Westman says
This trial should be trumpeted on the national news, ad infinitum. There is no wiggle room here for CAIR, rabid feminists, or Islam-loving gays to give this “religious practice” a pass since the defense is going to be required to show it is, indeed, a barbaric religious practice of Islam that cheats women.
No educated female will be confused about the purpose, the outcome of FGM, or, avoid shivering at the thought. YES! Let this go all the way to the SCOTUS!
PRCS says
As apologists oftentimes attempt to separate the procedure from Islam by describing it as a cultural practice–more power to the defense in their assertion that it actually is a religious (Muslim) practice.
rubiconcrest says
A constitution is a living document. It has to be protected day by day not just in the courts. If the population does not support the rule of law contained therein, it will gradually change, if the people want it to change. Therefore if we hold the long term view the constitution is protected by the citizens and their degree of education. The department of education has in important role to play in protecting the constitution from all totalitarian threats through education.
PRCS says
Oh, what a tangled web they’ve weaved, as they’ve definitely practiced to deceive the kuffaf.
Muslims (including these perps’ mosque “reps”) have long asserted that Allah’s slaves must follow the “laws of the land in which they live” (read: so long as such laws don’t trump Islam’s laws, of course).
Why else were the victims told not to talk about this “special” procedure?
And one perp, and her public? defender have both stated this procedure IS a religious procedure.
The First Amendment prohibits Congress from making any law respecting the establishment of religion or the free exercise thereof. But FGM, for example, was not made illegal here because of its association with Islam.
Carolyne says
I don’t know where PRCS lives, but FGM is illegal in the US under Federal Law.
PRCS says
California.
And as it is illegal, even here, the defense’s religious argument is (or should be) nonsense.
Guest says
Traditions change for a reason. FGM is inhumane and unnecessary. And the reason Muslims are accused of it, because they are the only ones who did it.
Traditions begin to protect the people. The whole “eating ham is a sin,” happened because back then pigs have worms and if not prepared correctly will lead to disease.
StacyGirl says
The “tradition” of FGM has always been rooted in anti-female sentiments and never for anything else. If a woman has sexual aspirations she will become impure and fodder for honor killing. Not marriage material and no dowry will be paid. Her destiny is to be part of a stable along with 3 other wives who will be productive farm animals. She is worth a bushel of rice and a goat or two.
maghan says
But the Chinese with their very ancient culture–much more civilized than primitive Arabs–have ALWAYS dined on pork. Hindus will punish anyone killing a cow for meat to be eaten. Different folks, different strokes?
Jeanette says
They can have their different strokes, but not where it will poison the West.
Get them back to a Muslim area, and confine them there.
Soon there won’t be many to worry about, since they can’t exist without torturing, maiming, raping and killing.
Then we can relax for a little while.
Martin Weiss says
The law requires that a given religious practice be accommodated unless there is a compelling government interest in preventing that practice.
Thus the burden is on the govt to show that banning FGM is a compelling govt interest. This really shouldn’t be difficult as the medical evidence is overwhelming but a foolish prosecution could, of course, mess up.
Jeanette says
If they let this go, then how can they not let go amputating hands as a punishment?
I hope this judge isn’t a stupid Muslim-addicted lefty.
gravenimage says
Martin, your idea that we have to prove in the US that FGM is harmful is mistaken–FGM has been explicitly illegal here since 1997.
I’m sure the date is so comparatively recent because there were so few Muslims here before that.
Terry says
Woman lawyer–is the male (muslim doctor) allowed to shake hands with her? Can he be in the same room with her? Can she be in the same room with him, without her father, brother or husband present.
Has she had female circumcision? IF NOT, WHY NOT/ AND GET IT DONE, NOW.
And, (my view) the parents also should be charged.
somehistory says
There are statutes under which the parents could (and should) be charged. They are supposed to protect children. Like the woman who a few years ago, sold her little girl over and over to men she knew for the drugs they gave her…she was charged.
These parents took their little girls there to be mutilated and abused and molested by these *dr’s*. And then they didn’t come forward and say what was done.
They are guilty.
Michael Copeland says
FGM is always a conspiracy.
StacyGirl says
They took them across state lines.
Jeanette says
Which automatically means that the FBI can investigate.
Jeanette says
Please do not use the term “female circumcision.”
FGM is much more severe than that, even if it is one of the less severe forms of FGM.
See 29:00 – 35:00:
http://bing.com/videos/search?q=ann+barnhardt+video+islam+sexual&view=detail&mid=78659C23DF2A43376AC778659C23DF2A43376AC7&FORM=VIRE
Using the term “female circumcision” makes uninformed people think that the procedure is the removal of a tiny bit of skin.
Ric says
Indeed, Jeanette, you bring up an excellent point. Hopefully, your provided link will inform those uncertain of how heinous, repugnant and misogynistic FGM is. I could say more but it is a topic that is mindnumbing and inhumane. Americans must be educated on FGM and not be misinformed by those choosing to be apologists for it. The latter, sadly, are not solely Muslims.
Thanks
Terry says
Jeanette-if you were (or trying to) reply to my comment a few above- you did not answer my question. (Nor did anyone else).
somehistory says
Some moslim men will speak to and even touch infidel women. Infidel women are not under the same rules as are moslim women.
On top that of that, moslims have the thing where *anything that furthers the cause of islam is allowed for moslims to do* especially those engaged in any kind of warfare…and this is warfare…trying to pass off this crime as protected religious belief.
The woman lawyer is probably not a moslim and can meet with the guy without her husband present. She may even become his next wife.
Terry says
Thank you.
gravenimage says
Terry, Muslims are always willing to fudge things if it furthers the cause of Islam–there is even a tenet for this–“Darura”, or “necessity”, whereby a Muslim can act in a somewhat un-Islamic manner if it is for Islamic ends.
I would imagine that his seeing his lawyer falls under this rubric.
If–God help us–Islam ever gains real ascendancy here, tenets like the separation of the sexes will be imposed (along with an accompanying drop in the number of women allowed to enter the legal profession).
Terry says
Thank you.
Terry says
I doubt the feds would have taken this to a grand jury- and be willing to go to trial, if not (at a minimum) 85-90% sure of getting a conviction, or the defendants agreeing to a plea bargain-like going to shitastan NOW and never coming back.
By the way-anyone else notice the time line. COMPLAINT IN OCTOBER.
Obama was pres. until Jan 20. So, my guess, the first 3 months- the Feds could not do a thing.
Islam the religion of killers says
If muslim sex is as brutal as everything else these savages do, having your clitorus cut off probably the only way woman can get through the gruelling dominating exercise .
( being a man I’m supposing the above )
gravenimage says
With Infibulation–Type III FGM, as practiced in places like Somalia–the vagina is sewn up, and in order to have sex the husband *cuts open his wife with a knife*. This ensures that sex is *always* brutal and dangerous, and that the gentlest husband assaults his wife.
God, I hate Islam.
Jeanette says
And here for the umpteenth time is the six minutes of video, illustrated with photos and drawings:
29:00 – 35:00
http://bing.com/videos/search?q=ann+barnhardt+video+islam+sexual&view=detail&mid=78659C23DF2A43376AC778659C23DF2A43376AC7&FORM=VIRE
gravenimage says
Thanks, Jeanette.
Jeanette says
I suspect that evil non-Muslims are reincarnated as Muslim women, as a punishment for bad behavior in their previous lives!
Jeanette says
And another thing; the procedure is the equivalent of having the penis cut off in a male.
So now you know!
Wellington says
Though a lawyer myself, I nonetheless look upon a fellow lawyer like Mary Chartier as very much tending to support the contention that 500 lawyers at the bottom of the sea is a good start. And while on lawyer jokes, here’s another: Why did New York get the corporate lawyers and New Jersey the toxic waste dumps? Answer: New Jersey got to pick first.
But I digress.
Sometimes, when I read or hear about what lawyers actually argue, I am reminded of what the playwright, John Gay, said, to wit, “Life is a jest and all things show it. I thought so once and now I know it.”
What Mary Chartier is arguing here is a jest all right, though a very cruel one for scores of females, both in the present and the future. Compounding this error of hers is her obvious oblivion of this cruel (and very real) jest. And invoking the Constitution to justify FGM on religious grounds goes beyond the Pale and insults the Framers of this magnificent document.
Ah, the bottom of the sea harkens to a person like Mary Chartier. No doubt. And this is not a threat, just a jest; in this instance a light one, unlike the cruel jest already mentioned and a cruel jest Mary Chartier is presently trying to justify in the name of freedom of religion, respecting which freedom Islam is profoundly opposed to in its own theological blueprint. Think Mary Chartier gets any of this? I should think the short answer is “No.”
So, shame on you, Charter. You are a disgrace to your gender, to your profession and to America. Not an enviable trifecta to be sure but one you are so deserving of.
Keys says
CAIR will assist in this case because, as Robert points out, it will be precedent setting.
Money will be no object; certainly the defendant contacted muslim organizations and was advised on the attorneys to employ for “months” in the courtroom as his attorney states. Cha-ching. So many are bought out.
Will sharia trump US law?
https://www.alanechartier.com/profiles/mary-chartier/
Keys says
I hope Attorney General Sessions has an eye on this case; even offers counsel for the local attorneys, who may be overwhelmed.
If this case is lost, it needs to be appealed all the way to the SCOTUS.
Wellington says
“Will sharia law trump US law?”
Verdict still out on this one. Wish it weren’t but sadly it is and thus demonstrating how a combination of ignorance of Western Civilization and political correctness/multiculturalism (plus a general lack of guts by so many in the West, including many on the Right like Bush, Romney, Ryan and McCain) can possibly lead to the most dire of results, for instance, the supremacy of Islamic law, replete with such important things like the crushing of freedom, the destruction of equality under the law and the elimination of what clitorises were, by nature, originally designed for.
Yep, Islam + continued Western exculpation of Islam = the termination of so much which Western Civilization has arduously constructed over the centuries———-including the preservation of the clitoris in tact.
maghan says
Though she is dumb, maybe she has a trick up her sleeve using the “religion argument” rather than the “cultural argument”. For some groups male circumcision is defended only on religious grounds. Can the goose and gander analogy work here?
PRCS says
Given that the three defends have told others to lie about the situation or to not talk about it (as with the victims), their description of the procedure vs the police report (including pictures which will make the difference between male circumcision and the mutilation of female genitalia obvious), etc.–not likely.
But……
Gen Jones says
Thanks for your post and the joke, Wellington.
I think all defendants have a right to counsel but it appears Mary Chartier is especially proud of keeping the scum of the earth out of jail. I believe this her website:
A “pitbull in high heels” and “Mike Tyson in the courtroom” are just a few of the names that clients have given Mary over the years. Mary’s advocacy skills are the result of years of experience litigating serious and complex criminal defense cases in federal and state courts around Michigan.
Mary has successfully defended clients in numerous federal and state trials, including winning a full acquittal in a federal drug dealing and money laundering case where every other co-defendant entered a guilty plea and dozens of witnesses testified against the client. In the end, Mary convinced the jury that the government had not met its very high burden of proof, and the client heard “not guilty” across the board. Mary also achieved “not guilty” verdicts in two recent cases – one involving an attempted murder and one involving multiple counts of criminal sexual conduct – in which no offers were made because the government believed their cases were so strong.
Mary’s criminal defense experience is extensive. She has served as lead counsel in numerous cases. She has represented clients accused of white collar crimes, such as health care fraud, mortgage fraud, and money laundering, as well as clients accused of drug dealing, crimes against the United States, bank robbery, criminal sexual conduct, and homicide.
https://www.alanechartier.com/profiles/mary-chartier/
gravenimage says
*Ugh*.
somehistory says
“They have a religious belief to practice their religion. And they are Muslims and they’re being under attack because of it. ”
Thankfully, this *lawyer* sounds very incompetent. If she argues the case in court as she made these statements, she will be handing the case to the prosecution..(He can point to the Aztecs and others who would not win on the *belief* it was commanded they commit crimes against others.)
She claims these monsters and molesters of children are being “persecuted.” Being investigated, arrested and indicted for committing crimes against children is not, no never, “persecution.” It is “due process of law.”
Anyone is free to *believe* anything. To believe that the moon is made of cheese or peanut butter, or that one can defy gravity by jumping from the roof of the Sears Tower and not suffer the consequences, may not cause any harm to anyone.
To believe that certain people don’t appreciate freedom and don’t deserve to live…will not be punished if no action is taken to bring about the deaths of those persons. If these monsters want to *believe* that they should molest little girls in order to please their fake god, but they don’t do anything about it is one thing. Once their hands and knives touch the skin of the little girls, they have gone beyond mere *belief* and transgressed against these children.
The law, from long ago, has been seen to be a protector of children and others who could not protect themselves.
Let the jury selection begin, and may the prosecutor be one who can speak for these little girls and for all the other little girls.
If this case is lost because these monsters *believe* that they should molest little girls, they can win other cases where they murder little girls and any others they choose and call it *religious belief.*.
Monty says
Should this evil practice be condoned as a religious expression, then every other wickedness of Islam can be justified on the same grounds. Killing “infidels”, apostates, homosexuals, adulterers and such are simply Islam. It’s inherent in the religion. She is inadvertently blowing Islam’s cover but will anyone notice?
PRCS says
Our friends, neighbors, acquaintances–all “filthy kuffar”–(of all ages capable of understanding it) should learn that this IS a “religious” belief, in order that they learn what Islam actually teaches.
Dito for killing “unbelievers”, apostates, homosexuals, adulterers (any and all of Islam’s practice that disgust “unbelievers” and/or violate secular law).
No more excuses about it being “a cultural practice”
Let them keep “blowing Islam’s cover”.
ElderlyZionist says
No doubt this lawyer is being paid well, by someone, to make her arguments. Lawyers earn a living and make reputations by defending the indefensible. Under the United States legal system (it’s a legal system, not a justice system), every criminal, however vile, is entitled to a capable defense. So try them, convict them, fine them into poverty and imprison them for a long time. It’s the best we can do.
utis says
I understand lawyers have an ethical obligation to get a fair trial for their client, but since when does “fair” mean getting the guilty free by all kinds of shams and tricks? If the lawyer isn’t lying about her client’s practice of FGM, she is falling for the new taqiya — that the practice is “just a pinprick.”
If lawyers spit on truth, fairness and justice for the victim (in this case, American society), then why should we commoners give a damn?
somehistory says
The prosecutor should get some photos of girls who have had it and agree…they should be able to get some from the latest little victims.
These would prove it’s more than just a prick…but even then, it is still molestation and is against the law.
If someone slices another person’s neck, it is still assault with a deadly weapon, even if the victim lives.
If the prosecutor is on his toes, well-versed in what was done, he’ll win the case.
PRCS says
They need women who’ve suffered that butchery to testify.
somehistory says
Evidently, they have proof from this case of what was done, per a real medical doctor’s examination. It is usual to take photos of such things for trial, so they can show the jury just what happened to these children.
PRCS says
The little girls can describe the pain of the procedure.
Adult women who’ve been subjected to it can describe it, and its after effects so much better.
somehistory says
Unless the women were also operated on by these particular people against their will, then the prosecution won’t call them to testify as to whether these individuals commit the crime.
If the prosecution wants the jury to understand the long term effects, and the judge allows one or more to testify, they could be a part of the trial to influence the jury as to sentencing.
The photos of what was actually done in the case of these two little girls, would be real evidence of the crimes committed against them. The photos will show that the procedure does damage and mutilates.
Witnesses are called for different reasons. The photos can actually prove the crimes were committed on these two victims.
PRCS says
1. I imagine the prosecution will vet potential witnesses.
2. While the pictures prove the crime occurred and that the victims were mutilated, no one can better explain the pain of this “religious” procedure and the long term deleterious effects than a woman who’s had to live with them.
3. Of course, as witnesses can be called for different reasons, that would include the trial itself if appropriate.
somehistory says
I don’t know exactly what point you.re are trying to make regarding women describing the pain, etc.
The children are the victims of these particular criminals. The women may have had it done, as children or as adults, but unless they were victimized by the same criminals, they cannot testify to the *fact* of a crime having been perpetrated against these children who are at the center of this case.
The women would be able to tell what it did to them, the pain, the disability, etc. Just as a doctor might be called to describe exactly what he saw when he examined the children, or an expert of another kind might be called to testify.
But the women who had the experience would not be *witnesses* to this crime in the same sense as the children who are the victims and whose photos could be shown to the jury to prove there was damage done.
The issue of pain and disability is an issue for determining how heinous is the crime committed against the children. Just as there are different levels of *bad*…how much the victim suffered before death, etc., there are different degrees of disability and distress after this procedure is done to different individuals.
The women testifying would be useful to show the jury how the children may have suffered, but the children can tell how much they did suffer and the photos show the damage.
The main point is that there is going to be a trial to determine the **guilt** of these individuals. Women who suffered at the hands of another criminal cannot **prove** the guilt of these defendants. They can say the mutilation causes life-long problems, but that is not a part of proving that these defendants broke the law in the case of these two little girls.
First the guilt must be proved. Then the punishment for being guilty. First the horse, then the cart.
PRCS says
Your hostility is not welcome.
We can continue amicably.
Or not.
The choice is yours.
somehistory says
I have not been hostile, but since you have obviously become so, this is my last to you.
Have a great day.
Jeanette says
No, the BEST we could do is to return them to the middle east.
Muslims must be confined to an area where they are allowed to practice all of their heinous delights, but cannot any longer poison the West.
If we don’t do that, western civilization will be destroyed, all the fancy lawyers’ babblings notwithstanding.
abad says
FGM has NO place in the United States of America.
This is precisely why Muslim “values” are incompatible with western values.
Just deport these people involved with FGM no need to put them in concentration camps.
PRCS says
So, in keeping with your second sentence: FGM as NO place in the kuffar world.
In truth, of course, it has no place anywhere today.
Troybeam says
“They have a religious belief to practice their religion. And they are Muslims and they’re being under attack because of it. I believe that they are being persecuted because of their religious beliefs and I do not make that allegation lightly,” Chartier said….
There is a huge difference between belief, law and criminal acts according to what people accept as a religious item such as sharia law, so people why is it you cannot read and understand that sharia law is not a religious practice but a LEGAL system that only Islam follows, therefore why is it that those that accept sharia can stand by and accept the brutal act of FGM, so I suggest this, for those that support FGM as a religious matter you should have the procedure done on your wife,daughter, sister mother and mostly have your infant daughter, young daughter or even teenage daughter undergo this procedure, if its good enough for Islam it should be good enough for your female family members. Now still feel like supporting FGM?
PRCS says
As the Shari’a encompasses EVERY aspect of a Muslim’s life, all Muslims accept it to some degree.
Like the followers of other faiths, it can be safely stated that not every Muslim complies with its every tenet.
But, to reject it completely is to reject Islam.
Jim J says
I have had many vitriolic discussions with my brother regarding Islam. Last night, he told me that his sister in law’s son who had married a Muslim Indonesion girl while in the navy submitted their young daughter to FGM. My very liberal brother and sister in law’s family were very upset. I have been a lurker on this site for a few months and very much appreciate Robert’s and all the fine contributors and commenter efforts to inform the public on the dangers this cult presents to the western world.
Jim
somehistory says
I’m sorry to hear about the little girl.
Perhaps you will be able to convince your brother to visit and lurk. Everyone needs to know the evils in order to protect themselves and their loved ones.
PRCS says
I had a several weeks long Twitter discussion with an Indonesian woman about Islam.
She’s intelligent, smart, well educated and traveled with a good sense of humor.
But what I took away from our discussions was denial on her part–stating that: she was not familiar with FGM (though it is quite common there), referring to jihadists as “terrorists”, using the old excuse that one must study Qur’an under the guidance of a cleric, refusal to address Islam’s barbaric punishments, etc.
The usual.
Having retired from the U.S. Navy, I’m not aware of any U.S. bases there. If you don’t mind me asking, are you British and was your brother in the British Navy? And did he convert to Islam?
maghan says
There is even an FGM day in Indonesia when there is a mass assembly-line cutting for the victims. Thousands are cut up. A glorious day for the cutters.
PRCS says
Very true.
http://tinyurl.com/n49sqx5
Jeanette says
You probably wasted your time on a Taqiyya practicing liar.
Jeanette says
And another thing:
If she is so intelligent and well educated, she has no excuse. She undoubtedly DOES know about it, but either supports it or refuses to condemn it.
Either way, she is supporting evil, which makes her evil.
And THAT is the problem with Islam – they almost all support evil, even if they don’t wield the knife, gun, torch, or razor personally.
PRCS says
As I said, what I took from our discussions was denial.
Our new Vice President, however bought into it.
Jeanette says
So the liberals don’t like it when it happens to someone THEY know and care about. But for the other 3 billion females on the planet, it’s fine.
I’m so sick of that hypocrisy. I, too, have liberal family members who support anything Islam wants to do, as long as the ALLAHgator doesn’t eat THEM!
I have cut off all ties to previous friends who were liberal, so have reduced my exposure to that hypocrisy to some degree. The family members will be next.
Sorry you are having to deal with such a heinous crime in your family.
Jim J says
Well, my liberal family members were confronted if not eaten by the ALLAHgater. The mother came close to disowning her son for allowing this to happen to her granddaughter. To PRCS- I’m not sure how he ended up in Indonesia. He met and married the girl there then moved to the states. She hated it here so they moved back to Indonesia. I have seen pictures of their kids but have not met them.
Jim
gravenimage says
Welcome to Jihad Watch, Jim.
So sorry to hear about the little girl.
Thor-Zone says
If these people are found not guilty because they were practicing their religion, then I guess honour killings are OK too. If this happens it will be a serious perversion of our constitution.
Jeanette says
How would a religion that ritually robs banks do in the West, one wonders?
PRCS says
The defense’s argument in this specific case–as I understand it:
It’s a religious practice, but it does not meet the FGM definition.
Therefore, as it is harmless (their assertion, not mine), it is not a crime.
Not sure how they intend to work that around the defendants’ attempts to hush it all up.
gravenimage says
Michigan: Lawyer says doctors accused of FGM are “Muslims and they’re being under attack because of it”
…………………..
So–is their lawyer admitting that Muslims have to act like savages in order to be practicing Muslims?
concerned canadian says
I ALREADY KNOW whats going to happen.
The new narrative will be that its
NOT mutilation. The word is Islamaphobic.
GAME OVER.
sorry for pessimism.
the right is not bold enough it seems
gravenimage says
It’s not over yet…
Jeanette says
As Winston Churchill said: Never give up.
We need a “Host of the West” to deal Islam, though.
(Host of the West, Lord of the Rings – Return of the King, J.R.R. Tolkien)
billybob says
“They have a religious belief to practice their religion. ” Then the let Muslim females decide when they reach the age of majority if they want to be circumcised. I wonder how many would freely chose FMG?
Jeanette says
The procedure is incorrectly called “circumcision.” It is much more severe – the female equivalent of removing the penis in a male.
See 29:00 – 35:00 here:
http://bing.com/videos/search?q=ann+barnhardt+video+islam+sexual&view=detail&mid=78659C23DF2A43376AC778659C23DF2A43376AC7&FORM=VIRE
Kay says
What is the group that doesn’t believe in medical care, only prayer. That group has been in court over forbidding medical care to children and they lost.
Let’s pray that our laws are upheld– for the good of everyone.
(I can hardly believe this is happening in my own country!)
Cecilia Ellis says
Kay wrote: “What is the group that doesn’t believe in medical care, only prayer.”
Kay, I believe that might be Christian Scientists.
Jeanette says
But the Christian Scientists are not the darlings of the left, and a bunch of our judges are now leftists.
Vyx says
So, FGM is part of the Muslim religion. They want it to be legal.
The taking of slaves is also part of the Muslim religion. Does that mean Muislims should be allowed to hold slaves if they’re in the US?
Wife beating is part of the Koran. Should that be legal here as well?
Stoning homosexuals seems to be part of Islam.Should that be A-OK in the US?
And finally, beheading is part of the Muslim relgion. Should we accept that as a valid expression of their faith?
Jeanette says
The members of the Globalist Elite of western countries say “Yes.”
We need to start putting some attention on them.
Irene Brekelmans says
It is crazy for the european countries, the USA, the Australians, and the Canadians to let this all happen.
I am from Europe, but sometimes now somebody stands up now in Europe. Yesterday there was a professor about immigration who said that you can not everybody let in as an immigrant, because there are too many and he said he was at a conference where somebody out of the public wanted to say something about it and was refused to speak about it. He did not think that that was ok and said it was about time to do away with the political correctness.. Finally somebody.
I found a video yesterday (this is for the Canadians} that made me perplex. It was the gunlaw for the canadians and a special law for veiled ladies see: FAITH GOLDY:Special gun rights for muslims.
That is really something, very dangerous !!!
Robert says
They are Child. You cannot practice your faith on Childerns . They can do it only after they become Major under the Law with their consent. The Parents must be Punished First , it is they who are Responsible . Don’t bring Islam into it. The accused is trying to bring faith into it And Divert the matter. The must must be Brutally Punished Otherwise this will continue . This against the law of the Land
Jeanette says
Islam isn’t a faith; it’s a cult. Cult practices are not protected by any country, to my knowledge.
Get the primitives re-classified as cult members and we can really make some headway on getting Islam out of the West.
gravenimage says
Robert wrote:
Don’t bring Islam into it.
………………..
You don’t want the Infidels to know that Muslims preform this atrocity on “religious” grounds, Robert? This is actually important to know.
duh swami says
Another victim of the word ‘religion’…Serious stupidity has set in…Not a good thing for a lawyer…
Creole Gumbo says
A formal declaration that Islam is not a religion would solve a lot of problems.
Jeanette says
That, and educating the women of the West that Muslims are beginning to call for western women and girls to be Muslim Mutilated should do the trick nicely.
jim says
Sure, I gassed a few Jews, but I am being prosecuted just for being a NAZI…
PRCS says
Yup.
gravenimage says
Spot on.
Lioness says
If these criminal perverts win in court, it’s the end of civilized law as we know it. You can also argue in court that jihad is an accepted Muslim religion practice – which it is, therefore justified and the jihadis should not be prosecuted. It may come to that too.
gravenimage says
I *very much doubt* they will win.
I think their lawyer is trying to get them a reduced sentence. I hope this does not work, either.
Bois123 says
Judge: “You know all those horrible medical experiments the Nazis did? Well, that’s fine, because they were Nazis!”
“Next case!” 🙁
Jake says
FGM exposes the true nature of this 7th century death cult, and that even with the covering facade of modern medicine, its true nature is apparent to all. These child molesters must be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Their behavior is a stain on all Muslim physicians in the country.