It’s hard to be Egyptian: water turning to blood, frogs, lice, wild animals, diseased livestock, boils, hailstorms, locusts, darkness, death of firstborn, and now Pope Francis.
Seriously, Francis notes the “incompatibility of violence and faith” and says: “Let us say once more a firm and clear ‘No!’ to every form of violence, vengeance and hatred carried out in the name of religion or in the name of God.”
This all sounds good, but this is the man who said that “authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence.”
It is clear that he has not revised that catastrophically counterfactual view, for instead of moving from his statement about rejecting violence in the name of religion to call upon Al-Azhar to reform the teachings of Islam that call for violence against unbelievers, Francis went on to an appeal for arms control and an oblique denunciation of Donald Trump and European leaders who want to stem the Muslim migrant onslaught: “Francis called for an end to the ‘proliferation of arms’ and lambasted ‘demagogic forms of populism.” On guns he said: “If they are produced and sold, sooner or later they will be used. Only by bringing into the light of day the murky maneuverings that feed the cancer of war can its real causes be prevented. National leaders, institutions and the media are obliged to undertake this urgent and grave task.” As if taking away weapons would end the jihad, which is what someone who believes that the Qur’an is opposed to any form of violence would think.
In greeting Al-Azhar’s sinister Ahmed al-Tayeb, Francis was once again photographed grinning happily while Tayeb stares back coldly. Every photo of them captures the same expressions, and they are a parable for the “interfaith dialogue” scam and for the Western leaders’ attitude as compared with that of the leaders of Muslim countries: the naive and ignorant Westerner reaching out in unfeigned friendship, happy to prove himself “tolerant” and not “Islamophobic,” while his Muslim counterpart, far more aware of what is going on, reacts coolly, and does not reveal what he is thinking.
But those who are aware of the contempt for Christians that is in the Qur’an and Sunnah, and the nature and magnitude of the global jihad, will have a pretty good idea of what is going through al-Tayeb’s mind.
“Leave them; they are blind guides. And if a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.” (Matthew 15:14)
“Pope Francis in Egypt: ‘No to every form of violence,'” by Sarah Sirgany and Joe Sterling, CNN, April 28, 2017:
Cairo (CNN)Pope Francis, speaking at the heart of Sunni Islam scholarship, stressed the importance of unity between Muslims and Christians to shape world peace and emphasized the “incompatibility of violence and faith.”
“Let us say once more a firm and clear ‘No!’ to every form of violence, vengeance and hatred carried out in the name of religion or in the name of God,” the Pope said in Italian in a speech at a peace conference at Al-Azhar University, the premier seat of high learning among Sunni Muslims.
The Pope arrived in Egypt on Friday, kicking off a two-day trip designed to forge Muslim-Christian brotherhood and show solidarity with the country’s persecuted Coptic Christian minority.
Francis met with Sheikh Ahmed el-Tayeb and became the first pontiff to visit the institution since Pope John Paul II in 2000.
The Pope and the Grand Imam spoke at the closing of the International Conference for Peace, organized by Al-Azhar. When he greeted the Grand Imam, the Pope called him “my brother.” The men sat side by side at the conference….
Francis opened his speech with “As-Salaam Alaikum,” the traditional Muslim greeting in Arabic that means “Peace be upon you,” after the imam’s address.”In order to prevent conflicts and build peace, it is essential that we spare no effort in eliminating situations of poverty and exploitation where extremism more easily takes root, and in blocking the flow of money and weapons destined to those who provoke violence,” he said.
Francis called for an end to the “proliferation of arms” and lambasted “demagogic forms of populism.”
“If they are produced and sold, sooner or later they will be used,” he said. “Only by bringing into the light of day the murky maneuverings that feed the cancer of war can its real causes be prevented. National leaders, institutions and the media are obliged to undertake this urgent and grave task.”…
The Pope, again speaking in Italian, focused on Egypt’s role in fighting terrorism in the region, evoking incidents from its biblical and modern history. He ceremonially greeted all Egyptian people, including minority Christians — Coptic Orthodox, Greek Byzantines, Armenian Orthodox, Protestants and Catholics.”Your presence in this, your country, is not new or accidental, but ancient and an inseparable part of the history of Egypt,” he said. “You are an integral part of this country, and over the course of the centuries you have developed a sort of unique rapport, a particular symbiosis, which can serve as an example to other nations.”
Francis highlighted the sacrifice of members of the army and the police, the forced exodus of Christians from Sinai and the latest church bombings. He also stressed respect for human rights and religious freedoms….
Pope Tawadros II, head of Egypt’s Coptic Orthodox Church, then greeted Francis at St. Mark’s Coptic Orthodox Cathedral in Cairo’s Abbassiya district, state TV said. They walked together in procession and took part in ecumenical prayers at the adjacent church of St. Peter, the site of a deadly blast in December that left at least 23 people dead….
Libby says
Aye ok Sir Pope, yr saying it therefore it must be….. WAKE UP ya bafoon!!!!
Coral Searle says
As long as the Coptic Pope Tawadros is happy with the Catholic Pope Francis, then he’s ok with me.
mortimer says
VIOLENCE IN THE NAME OF RELIGION NOT ISLAMIC? Oh, POPE FRANCIS, YOU SKIPPED THE FOLLOWING, didn’t you?
-Mohammed said: “I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against all people until they testify there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah’s Apostle, and offer the prayers and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform that, then they save their blood and possessions from me.” (Sahih Muslim 1:33)
-Narrated ‘Abdullah bin Abi Aufa: Allah’s Apostle said, “Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords.” Bukhari Vol. 4, Book 52, Num. 73.
– “The Prophet said, ‘I have been awarded victory by terror so the treasures of the earth are mine.'” Bukhari: V9B87N127
-I heard the Prophet saying, “In the last days (of the world) there will appear young people with foolish thoughts and ideas. They will give good talks, but they will go out of Islam as an arrow goes out of its game, their faith will not exceed their throats. So wherever you find them, kill them, for there will be a reward for their killers on the Day of Resurrection.” Sahih Bukhari Vol.6, Book 61, Num. 577.
-“I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.” Qur’an 8:12.
-“And slay them wherever ye catch them.” Qur’an 2:191.
-“Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame….” Qur’an 9:14.
-“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” Qur’an 9:29
-God hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur’an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than God? Then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme. Qur’an 9:111.
-Strike off the heads of the disbelievers “Strike off the heads of the disbelievers and after making a wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives.” Qur’an 47:4.
TruthWFree says
Nothing like thowing the Quran allah god exhorted violence back in the face of Muslim enablers like this Pope and those who would believe Islam can coexist with any other religion. The Pope is a fool and his outreach to Islam will get him nothing but contempt.
Don Foss says
“…Islam can coexist with any other religion.” Never has, never will.
Adrian Johnson says
This Pope impresses me much like Obama. They seem to be the creatures of the NWO and tasked with tearing down and weakening, and demeaning the country and the church they were chosen to protect.
I see them as the new Benedict Arnold and the new Judas priest respectively.
Nevertheless I still believe in the American Constitution and Catholic Dogma despite them.
Thomaspj Poovathinkal SSP says
RIGHT.
gravenimage says
Coral Searle wrote:
As long as the Coptic Pope Tawadros is happy with the Catholic Pope Francis, then he’s ok with me.
……………….
The Copts have to practice dhimmitude *out of fear*.
Is *that* what you want to see in the free West?
Thomaspj Poovathinkal SSP says
WHAT is your PROBLEM? Please DO something about it SOON.
Michael says
He’s a globalist. what can you say? I grew up Catholic, once in awhile go to Catholic church. One priest at this church, I’ve asked about Islam, his thoughts on it. And shared mine. He definitely did not endorse Islam, and was careful to not condemn it, either — though I did. He knows the truth.
The pope? it seems that anything ‘nationalist’ is anathema. Why is that? Why can’t countries remain countries? Why can’t we respect individual nations? Why, it doesn’t work for a one world government.
Perhaps the Pope’s concern is who will run the one world government. I’m sure there’s a battle for the top spot … a lot of maneuvering behind the scenes.
As far as the Pope not understanding what Islam is? Doesn’t seem possible. Any more than it seems Merkel understands what Islam ‘really’ is …. It would be nice to think it’s all due to ignorance, and if they just really studied Islam. Can’t believe they aren’t fully aware of it all.
VRWC member77 says
*** On guns he said: “If they are produced and sold, sooner or later they will be used. ***
Statements like that don’t show a level of intellectual thought process. It just shows juvenile imagery. When he spouts that he’d give someone a “punch in the nose” if anyone insulted his mother it shows what a thick boob he genuinely is. I for one would love to challenge punk-bergoglio on that……but then again his mother may have been a decent person.
Gen Jones says
That punch in the nose line really killed me. What a boob indeed. A perfect opportunity to say Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ taught us to turn the other cheek.
Thomaspj Poovathinkal SSP says
The man does not belong to “OUR LORD and SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST.” (Let us PRAY.)
Whereas THE POPE BELONGS to HIM. Here lies the SECRET of true Godliness.
Thomaspj Poovathinkal SSP says
The Pope was APPEALING to the CONSCIENCE of PURE HUMANITY. That is it. It is as simple as that. In this THE POPE IS IN THE RIGHT PLACE.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
@ Thomaspj Poovathinkal SSP says “THE POPE IS IN THE RIGHT PLACE.”
In total agreement.
The problem we have on this site, is nothing more than keyboard warriors.
Reply
Graham says
The Pope is in the right place to become the leader of the ‘One World Church’ – end of story! And according to Revelation that will be bad!
Thomaspj Poovathinkal SSP says
“The Pope is in the right place to become the leader of the ‘One World Church’”
IF it is according to the mind of Jesus The Lord, for he PRAYED for THE UNITY of his Church (People), it is MOST DESIRABLE. Why NOT pray for the POPE?
mortimer says
Thomas, what is it that a supremacist wants? Have you read the Sira, the hadiths, the Koran? Have you read a manual of Sharia law?
Are you guessing about Islam? You are guessing, aren’t you?
Kay says
Someone must preach peace. Let’s pray that the Pope’s appeal reaches hearts even to open them to the religion that really does teach peace.
VRWC member77 says
“The problem we have on this site, is nothing more than keyboard warriors.”
So why don’t you go pound sand somewhere else and not waste space here so we keyboard warriors can continue with our fight, deal?
TruthWFree says
I pray for the Pope each night at my bedside to do God’s will, but I find it hard to believe he is doing God’s will. Jesus did not mince words in the Gospels that He is the only way to the Father. This Pope reaches out to Islam and Islam is a violent hate filled religion that does teach killing and subjugating all people who do not believe in Muhammad and his allah god in the Quran. The Quran is supposed to be the allah god’s word to Muhammad delivered by the angel Gabriel…unwitnessed. Islam’s teachings are 180 degrees opposite Christ’s teachings and the Quran states that Jesus never said He is the Son of God and that He did not die on the cross…lies against the Gospels written 600 to 700 years earlier by eye witnesses to Jesus statements and miracles. The allah god also says he has no sons. This “we all pray to the same God” mantra is BS. Also the claim to be an Abrahamic religion is just an unsubstantiated claim. In the 2600 years from Abraham to Muhammad, the Arabs worshiped all sorts of gods and they still worship the black stone of the Kaaba which was a pagan worship. Per Robert Spencer’s “The Truth About Muhammad”, Mo thought he was possessed by a demon on his first encounter with the being in the cave in 610 AD. Later he is fooled by Satan on agreeing to other gods besides the allah god…the allah god tells him Satan fooled him (Salmon Rushdie’s “Satanic Verses”). I believe Satan fooled him on the entire religion and the allah god is SATAN. Jesus says in John 8:44 that Satan is the father of all lies. In Jesus words, the allah god of Islam is Satan.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
“Pound sand” My dear sir, that is precisely what I am doing.
Rev g says
Yes, he is in the right place, at his home anyways. A well-guarded home with tall walls around it, built specifically to keep muslims out.
gravenimage says
How is the pope ignoring the violence of Islam a *good thing*?
Don Foss says
It’s not about “thought process”; it’s about celebrity and being the Catholic rock star. I’ve worked and lived in two different South American countries during this guy’s Pope-ship, and have vacationed in a few more. Dude’s like a Svenghali on the faithful here. Whatever he says is swallowed as absolute wisdom and truth. Whatever he does would be blasphemy to question. If the Muslim world was smart they would use this time to start doing to South America what they’ve been doing to Europe. They have a door mat here.
carol says
They ARE quite busy in the TRIBORDER area,near Francis’ old stomping grounds. Drugs, counterfeiting, money-laundering, being taught by the cartels how to get into America etc. This Pope is just too convenient and compliant with Islam and my suspicion is that it has a lot do with South American prospects and the Vatican coffers,
His style is perverse and creepy – hug the man who symbolizes the rigid mindset of fanatics and make apologies that should actually be coming from same; then visit the church where terrorists recently blew up 23 Christians right after speaking of how Egypt’s mix of religious groups is an example to all…” You are an integral part of this country, and over the course of the centuries you have developed a sort of unique rapport, a particular symbiosis, which can serve as an example to other nations.”
Seems he skipped over the genocidal Islamic fanatics. Such a creepy and astounding “example” to other nations!
roger woodhouse says
Its a mindset in ignorance.They chose not to know .
They fear the truth because once it is acknowledged they will be obliged to take action or be removed from office.Being in office for as long as possible is their main (sole) objective.We in Britain are watching this train crash unfold and are helpless to stop it..There is a massive subterfuge operating here .Everyone in the media to the political elite are trapped by PC.
Graham says
Absolutely correct Roger!
TruthWFree says
If the Pope understands Islam and does not speak out against it, he is just as evil as Islam, Satan’s religion. I too cannot believe he is ignorant on Islam.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
The Catholic Church does not recognize Mohammad as a prophet.
The Catholic Church does not need to explain further than that, even the dimwitted can understand what follows.
However it does not negate the fact that there are good people among Mohammedans just as in secular Western society and very bad ones as well.
gravenimage says
What you do not appear to grasp is that Islam *teaches* evil. When Muslims are good people, it is because they are bad Muslims.
Rev G says
We have a winner! Good answer Graven!
somehistory says
“Whenever it is that they are saying ‘Peace and Security’…then sudden destruction will be instantly upon them as pains of labor upon a pregnant woman. And they will not escape by any means.”
Benedict says
“authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence.” –
The pope is desperately trying to prescribe what Islam ought to be, but he knows too well that his prescription doesn’t fit the Qur’an and Islam: the religion of duplicity.
Ed Lee says
Pope Francis, like all Islamic apologists, hopes that we have not read the Qur’an. Sura 15 verses 90-91 require mankind to adhere to the entirety of the Qur’an; we are forbidden from selectively observing portions of it. Sura 3 verse 7 explicitly forbids mankind from doing any “interpretation” of the Qur’an. So, the Pope’s “proper reading of the Koran” is blasphemy under Sharia.
mortimer says
Ed Lee wrote: “the Pope’s (so-called) “proper reading of the Koran” is blasphemy under Sharia.”
… it sure as heck is… total blasphemy. Francis’ theory contradicts the ‘CONSENSUS’ of Islam which is the ISLAMIC VERSION of INFALLIBILITY.
There is no IJTIHAD after 1111AD because the CANONICAL REINTERPRETATION of Islam is complete and CLOSED.
BS-peddler Frank doesn’t even know that.
mortimer says
THE POPE KNOWS SWEET BUGGER-ALL ABOUT ISLAM… FRANCES IS A BULL*****ER.
Serious American philospher Harry G. Frankfurt, PhD, declared that “bullshit” is a major problem today. Bullshitting, he notes, is not exactly lying, and bullshit remains bullshit whether it’s true or false. The difference lies in the bullshitter’s complete DISREGARD for whether what he’s saying corresponds to FACTS in the physical world: he “does not reject the authority of the truth, as the liar does, and oppose himself to it. He pays NO ATTENTION to it at all. By virtue of this, bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are.”
The pope clearly doesn’t care that PHILOSOPHICALLY SPEAKING he’s peddling BULLSHIT. Frank pretends he knows something about Islam, when in fact, he knows sweet bugger-all.
Islam isn’t a religion of peace. Not a bit. All peaceful verses in the Koran are ABROGATED and of no EFFECT.
Frank doesn’t even care that people consider him a bullshitter. The RCC needs to dump him. What a mistake.
Westman says
The Pope’s ideas on humanity have no grip in realty or actual cause. The basic human instinct is not survival, but rather, human competition. Survival is a competition with nature and humanity in which money and power are but scorecards when the threshold of physical security has been exceeded. Francis cannot stop war or its cause, competition. One of the most serious current competitions is the goal of Islam to rule the world. Anyone who takes sports seriously knows about human competition and its amplification when practiced by a group. The soccer fan riots should wake Francis to the actual nature of competition and the threat of Islam’s eschatology pursuits. The “lion” is lying down with the lambs while the wolves are moving in for dinner.
When will the Pope visit North Korea and kiss Jong Un’s foot? What rhetoric about guns will escape from his throat when the inevitable hostilities with Jong Un begin? Pope Francis may be the sweet uncle we all loved to have around, but we still have to lock the doors at night.
Thomaspj Poovathinkal SSP says
THE POPE IS NOT ASKING ANY POLITICIAN TO BECOME THE POPE.
Westman says
True, Thomaspj, and no politician is listening to him with any intent to follow his advice.
gravenimage says
Westman, people cooperate as well as compete with each other.
And some forms of competition are healthy, like most sports and things like the tech race.
But a creed like Islam that teaches violent Muslim supremacy inevitably creates bloodshed and oppression.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
One has to give credit to Pope Francis for going to Al Azhar university and giving a straight forward type of Regensberg address to imam,s and those who teach.
He has stood up for the persecuted christian minorities laying a wreath at a blood spattered wall where the latest persecution, at our Easter fast & celebration took place.
What have the keyboard warriors and your secular governments done besides bleating or selling weapons to those, who oppress us?
mortimer says
Francis is like Neville Chamberlain visiting Hitler. APPEASEMENT DOESN’T WORK. Sing another chorus of kumbaya, why don’t you?
Westman says
Perhaps you remember that Italy, the center of Catholicism, gave rise to fascism and contributed to the horror of the 2nd world war?
It was those “breakoff” religionists, athiests(Russians), and secular governments who gave Italy back to the Vatican. The RMC has been toothless since that time and the world opinion of the Pope’s celebrity as Pope protects him while in Egypt. The US RMC has all but broken off from the Vatican and only lends half an ear.
What could he do? See that all his members in the West learn about the doctrine and specific goals of Islam that highlight it’s total rejection of Christ as Savior and its intent to make all Catholics into believers, dhimmis, or deceased. Those living with and under it need no education – they are fully aware.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
It has not escaped Catholics, that the Western liberal society who proclaim human rights are the same ilk in Europe that killed Catholics, burned our Churches stole our property.
Some today still worship God,in Church’s that have been stolen from Catholics.
How much better are you and secular society than Mohammedans.
Possibly you are from the same cloth.
gravenimage says
How can you believe that human rights are anti-Catholic? Or that human rights are–well–the opposite of human rights?
Carolyne says
I often read that Islam is a false religion. But when one is brainwashed from birth that a religious belief is directly from a supernatural creator, one believes. Christians have three–Father, Son and Holy Ghost, somehow all in one which is inexplicable. Hindus have a number of them, my favorite being the Monkey god, once described here as a “Gentleman” by one of his believers. Some believe that the mythical “Mary” appears to humans, usually wearing a blue garment and usually appearing to young children, mostly girls, near running water of some kind. She appears as far as I can tell, to advise and warn, sort of like the Queen of England.
In some instances, the “Sun stands still during these incidents, which of course is a scientific impossibility, since the sun does not move, but the earth revolves around the sun. (
Watch out, Galileo, they’re coming for you. )
In ancient Egypt, there were various gods until Akenaton decreed that there was really on one, Ra, the sun god. King Tut went along with that for a while, but then the pantheon of gods returned to the traditional capital from Armarna.
The word “Pontiff” actually means “Keeper of the bridge” and was once the designated man to take bridge tolls from those crossing the Tiber. He even wore a miter on his head, similar to the one the Pope now wears once in a while.
Humans apparently needed a threat of punishment if they did not behave in a way in which society approves, and so they are all threatened with severe punishment after they die–or a serious reward if they have lived according to the way their particular god demands. Muslims get unending sex from both women and boys in their Seventh heaven.
So knowing all of this, how could I possibly think that silly little skinny man from Argentina has any direct influence with his god, which god may be warring with other gods believed in by other humans? And if his god is all powerful, whey is there hunger, cruelty, wars, murders, and even Islam itself?
People, we are on our own and we need to stop waiting for pie in the sky when we die and face and conquer this menace of Islam before they do the same to us.
Mike says
If he were to comdemn Islam outright, would that help the Christians in the Middle East? Would that stop the slaughter or exacerbate it? What would you have him do? Do you forget that this is the Roman Catholic Church? When Islam got out of hand in the past, who fought them? You?! Presbyterians? You Lt. Weinberg?
Maria says
100% right
Thomaspj Poovathinkal SSP says
THE ONLY thing, the TRUE thing, the RIGHT thing to DO for ALL Christian Popes and Peoples belonging to the DIVIDED Christian Churches is to LISTEN TO CHRIST THE LORD, THE SAVIOR, “PRAY for those who persecute YOU, BLESS those who curse YOU…” and HE THE LORD will make us VICTORIOUS for HE IS THE VICTOR by HIS RESURRECTION and THE CLAIMS HE HAS MADE in his WORD : about coming on the CLOUDS of HEAVEN to JUDGE THE LIVING and THE DEAD.
IN SHORT : FOLLOW HIM, OBEY HIM and keep his WORD, for he is Alive AMONG US, waiting for us to join him that HE MAY TAKE US TO THE FATHER from whom he came to REDEEM US.
WHAT did HE SAY to his APOSTLES before his ascension to HEAVEN? LET US JUST DO WHAT HE ASKED US through his Apostles. EVERYTHING WILL, THEN, BE ALL RIGHT WITH US AND THE WORLD.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
One would think that if people really believed in God then one would obey what he taught through His prophets to Jesus His Son.
The simple truth is:no Christian denomination other than Catholic/orthodox can claim apostolic tradition.
So it it is hilarious to read post from those who claim to obey God, however follow a retarded Christianity invented by a man/women.
Those keyboard warriors who put up their being an ex-Catholic: as to proof of some inner truth of been right that the Catholic Church in her collective wisdom is wrong, is totally ridiculous.
The Church follows the will of its founder not the imitator.
Pope Francis is doing the right thing and is in the hornets abode, speaking the truth.
Lets see if the keyboard warriors are able to do the same.
Smart guy says
Jesus said. “Many will come in my name saying, “Did we not prophesy in your name and perform many powerful works in you name, and expel demons in your name .” Yet I will confess to them, I never knew you, get away from me you workers of lawlessness.” Apostolic succession is totally worthless. That saying from Jesus comes from the sermon on the mount. The Catholic church outlawed the Bible and burned people at the stake for translating it into readable English. A sin against the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven.
The Catholic Church has sinned against the Holy Spirit and cannot be forgiven.
mortimer says
Thomas, read the primary source texts and then post your comments. Until then, your comments reveal that you’re clueless about taqiyya, jihadism, Islamic misogyny, Dhimmitude, supremacism, Islamic jurisprudence and many other DISCRIMINATORY doctrines of canonical Islam.
What is it that a supremacist wants?
Thomaspj Poovathinkal SSP says
GOOD ISLAM VS. BAD ISLAM TIS TO BE KEPT IN MIND.
Jeanette says
The Church seems to be following the will of a socialist/communist/Muslim-admirer now, not the will of its founders.
And this Muslim-admirer does not seem disposed to intervene for Catholics or for western civilization, against the destruction of same by Muslims.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
A thousand years ago America did not exist there were no Protestants therefore no 19th century?
Maybe you mean a hundred years ago that would bring us to 1917, now which famous Protestant sea battle took place. Did this battle take place under a Martin Luther Banner, or under a secular Flag such as the British or American?
How many were Protestant and how many were Catholic.?
gravenimage says
Mike, your belief that Protestants have never fought Islam is mistaken. The Americans and British–mostly Protestants–fought in the early 19th century to clear the Mediterranean from Muslim piracy. Infidels in Europe were free of this scourge for the first time in 1000 years.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
gravenimage
What a load of rubbish you need to substantiate your claims.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
This whole thread is waiting for you gravenimage “The Americans and British–mostly Protestants–fought in the early 19th century to clear the Mediterranean from Muslim piracy.”
Another FAKE news story
You are a complete waste of time
gravenimage says
Malcolm (SouthAfria) wrote:
gravenimage
What a load of rubbish you need to substantiate your claims…
This whole thread is waiting for you gravenimage “The Americans and British–mostly Protestants–fought in the early 19th century to clear the Mediterranean from Muslim piracy.”
Another FAKE news story
You are a complete waste of time
…………………
Are you actually unfamiliar with the Muslim Barbary pirates and their downfall? Good grief.
Here you go:
“Jefferson Versus the Muslim Pirates”
America’s first confrontation with the Islamic world helped forge a new nation’s character.
https://www.city-journal.org/html/jefferson-versus-muslim-pirates-13013.html
Here’s more:
https://history.state.gov/milestones/1801-1829/barbary-wars
Really, this information is *not* difficult to find. It is an amply documented period of history.
Following the first raid on Tripoli, where Americans freed Christians enslaved by Muslims, Pope Pius VII declared that the United States “had done more for the cause of Christianity than the most powerful nations of Christendom have done for ages.”
Catholics have bravely fought back against the depredations of Islam many times–Mike was just mistaken in his belief that Protestants have never fought Islam.
By the way, Orthodox Christians and Jews have also fought back against Islam. Surely you don’t consider that “fake news” as well?
I can provide proof of this, as well, though, if this is something else you are ignorant of.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
You are a total ignoramus gravenimage, how does the secular now become a Protestant, movement?
Explain yourself, if he were catholic does it now become a Catholic battle?
Google lets you down when you put you own fairy tale interpretations. Stick to google.
gravenimage says
I said that the US and Britain were mostly Protestant at the time, and that they fought against Muslim piracy.
You called that claim “another FAKE news story”. But it is not, as I indicated.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
April 29, 2017 at 4:58 pm
A thousand years ago America did not exist there were no Protestants therefore no 19th century?
Maybe you mean a hundred years ago that would bring us to 1917, now which famous Protestant sea battle took place. Did this battle take place under a Martin Luther Banner, or under a secular Flag such as the British or American?
How many were Protestant and how many were Catholic.?
Reply
gravenimage says
Yet more from Malcolm (SouthAfria):
A thousand years ago America did not exist there were no Protestants therefore no 19th century?
………………………….
I said “Infidels in Europe were free of this scourge for the first time in 1000 years”, which is quite true.
Islam conquered Sicily in 652 and invaded the Iberian Peninsula in 711. By the early 8th century, Islamic territories had almost encircled the Mediterranean.
The Mediterranean Sea was not fully opened again to trade free from the threat of Muslim piracy until the United States began to fight back and was eventually joined by British and French efforts in the early 19th century.
This *is* 1000 years–in fact, it is rather *over* a millenium. Why is this difficult for you to grasp?
More:
Maybe you mean a hundred years ago that would bring us to 1917, now which famous Protestant sea battle took place.
………………………….
You are mistaken in believing that the Mediterranean was still suffering Muslim piracy in 1917. It had, in fact, been free of that scourge for over a hundred years at this point.
More:
Did this battle take place under a Martin Luther Banner, or under a secular Flag such as the British or American?
………………………….
I said that America and Britain were mostly Protestant in the early 19th century–not that they sailed under a Protestant banner. Why should this be so difficult for you to understand?
It is a matter of historic record that the US and Britain were majority-Protestant during the early 19th century. In fact, both these nations are still Protestant majority. Surely you are not trying to refute this?
More:
How many were Protestant and how many were Catholic.?
………………………….
I said, “The Americans and British–mostly Protestants–fought in the early 19th century to clear the Mediterranean from Muslim piracy.”
I never said that there might not have been some Catholics involved in the American and British efforts–certainly, there may have been.
But as I noted, these nations were majority-Protestant. The large immigration of Catholics into the US was still decades away at this time. Surely you realize that this is a simple matter of the historical record?
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
gravenimage how are you and ilk, ever going to fight Islam, you cannot substantiate any of you ludicrous claims. If you are representative of the new global warrior here is a mission for your fake Protestant Armada
Do yourself a favor, get real. There is a rag tag country on the East coast of Africa called Somalia, there are scrawny Mohammedan pirates there, it in the Indian ocean, check it out on google.
Europe the the USA are incapable of sorting this out, we leave it to you and your Protestant armada.
gravenimage says
Malcolm (SouthAfria) wrote:
gravenimage how are you and ilk, ever going to fight Islam, you cannot substantiate any of you ludicrous claims.
………………………….
On what basis is Malcolm claiming the Barbary Wars did not occur? As I have noted several times now, this is an amply chronicled period of history.
More:
If you are representative of the new global warrior here is a mission for your fake Protestant Armada
………………………….
I never claimed to be a warrior. I am an artist, writer, and historian.
More:
Do yourself a favor, get real. There is a rag tag country on the East coast of Africa called Somalia, there are scrawny Mohammedan pirates there, it in the Indian ocean, check it out on google.
………………………….
I have written about the Somali pirates many times here. Malcolm’s implication that I am unaware of the recent resurgence of Muslim piracy in the Horn of Africa is quite disingenuous.
More:
Europe the the USA are incapable of sorting this out, we leave it to you and your Protestant armada.
………………………….
Malcolm is–once again–quite mistaken. The fight against the Somali pirates has largely been one of the clear victories in the fight against Jihad:
“Did 2013 Mark the End of Somali Piracy?”
http://world.time.com/2014/01/06/did-2013-mark-the-end-of-somali-piracy/
And note–the British and American navies have featured very prominently in this fight. There were zero successful attempts at piracy off Somalia in 2013.
Of course, we cannot become complacent–Islamic savagery is always poised to reemerge.
Still, fighting back hard and consistently has been *very* effective. Why am I not surprised that Malcolm is unaware of this?
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
gravenimage says
April 29, 2017 at 3:58 pm
“Mike, your belief that Protestants have never fought Islam is mistaken.”
This is your first sentence do not be ridicules, my question to you is how does this become a protestant movement or mostly Protestant when in the first place it was not a religious fight.
Do not think for your self, google the answer, it will mostly be better better than your stupid interpretation.
gravenimage says
I said that Protestants have indeed fought against Jihad, and so they have.
I never once claimed that they formed a “Protestant armada”, nor that the sailed under a specifically Protestant banner. These claims were ginned up by Malcolm and falsely attributed to myself.
No surprise, either, that he has decided to ignore successful efforts against the Somali pirates, since they do not fit his dishonest assertions.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
You know what gravenimage,
If you told the truth, and were humble in your error, I would have respect for you. You are nothing more than a google jockey. You are incapable of thinking or reasoning,you are anti-catholic although you have claimed before, you are not. When you try to think without google you fall into a trap, carry on using google
Again I have respect for those who are anti catholic and up front about it, believe me I am anti Protestant however I have respect for protestants who are good the same with atheist secular or mohamadians.
I have a belief system, it is not my own, it is the teaching of the Catholic Church, I am not a saintly Catholic however will never deny the Church of my forefathers and the Saints. You have no understanding of that, so once again avoid my post or change your ways.
gravenimage says
Yet more from Malcolm (SouthAfria):
You know what gravenimage,
If you told the truth, and were humble in your error, I would have respect for you.
…………………………..
I made no error. This is a well-documented period of history.
More:
You are nothing more than a google jockey. You are incapable of thinking or reasoning,you are anti-catholic although you have claimed before, you are not. When you try to think without google you fall into a trap, carry on using google
…………………………..
Noting that others beside Catholics fought back against Islam is in no way anti-Catholic.
I have also noted–many times–that Catholics themselves fought back against Islam–for centuries, in fact. Were I anti-Catholic I would hardly do this.
And I have a degree in history, with an emphasis on the Middle Ages and Renaissance. I have read a lot of the original documents from this period.
As for sneering at the articles I linked to, I notice that you are unable to actually point to anything contained therein which is incorrect.
More:
Again I have respect for those who are anti catholic and up front about it…
…………………………..
Except, of course, that I am not. I have long posting history here–eleven years now–and have often defended Catholicism. That does not mean that I must respect every utterance of the pope or action of the church, nor that I must pretend that non-Catholics have not also fought against Jihad.
More:
…believe me I am anti Protestant however I have respect for protestants who are good the same with atheist secular or mohamadians.
…………………………..
The idea that the average Protestant–or Atheist–is no different ethically from the average Muslim taught to oppress and slaughter Infidels is ridiculous.
It is not Protestants and Atheists who are slaughtering Infidels all over the world–it is pious Muslims. Surely you grasp this?
Robert Spencer is a devout Catholic–when his family fled Turkey, it was not to escape Protestants or Atheists.
More:
I have a belief system, it is not my own, it is the teaching of the Catholic Church, I am not a saintly Catholic however will never deny the Church of my forefathers and the Saints. You have no understanding of that, so once again avoid my post or change your ways.
…………………………..
You might believe that you are able to control who exercises their freedom of speech here, but you are in this, as in so many matters, quite mistaken.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
gravenimage
You have freedom of speech to tell the truth, however you have no freedom to tell untruths.
gravenimage says
Malcolm, of course, has proven incapable of pointing out anything that I said that was not entirely correct.
Is he claiming that the US and Britain were not majority-Protestant during the early 19th century? That the Barbary Wars did not take place? That Muslim piracy is fictive?
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
gravenimage
Who are you appealing to?
I believe your government did the same Iran, hmm paid a plane load of dollars.
Here is a peace of how the leaders of your so called mostly Protestant armada dealt with Mohammedan pirates :
The U.S. Pays Tribute
After finding American commerce in the Mediterranean had almost stopped due to the pirates, the Continental Congress agreed in 1784 to negotiate treaties with the four Barbary States. Congress appointed a special commission, consisting of John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and Benjamin Franklin, to oversee the negotiations. The following year, Congress authorized a maximum of $80,000 to spend on tribute treaties with all the Barbary States.
In 1787, the United States signed a tribute treaty with Morocco. This proved to be a reasonable treaty, costing the United States a one-time only tribute of about $20,000. Except for a few brief disagreements, Morocco never again harassed American shipping.
Algiers, the most powerful of the Barbary States, was a different story. In the summer of 1785, pirates from Algiers captured two American merchant ships and held the 21 men aboard them for ransom. The United States offered $4,200 for the captives. The ruler of Algiers, called the dey, demanded nearly $60,000. The Americans refused, and negotiations dragged on for more than 10 years.
The two commissioners most involved in tribute treaty negotiations were John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. Adams favored paying tribute as the cheapest way to get American commerce moving again in the Mediterranean. Jefferson disagreed. He saw no end to the demands for tribute. He wanted matters settled “through the medium of war” and proposed a league of trading nations to force the end of Barbary piracy.
In 1790, pirates from Algiers captured 11 American ships and more than 100 prisoners to add to those already held for ransom. This shocking news produced a serious debate in the newly formed U.S. Congress over the need to build a navy. But it took five years before Congress authorized the construction of six warships.
Finally, in 1796, the United States signed a peace treaty with Algiers. The United States agreed to pay $642,500 plus annual tribute of naval supplies and presents to the dey. In exchange, the dey promised to release of the American captives and protect American shipping. The United States had to borrow money to make the primary tribute payment.
What has this got to do with Protestants, this is secular government.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Now you have an inkling of how you empower mohammedans, you have no idea of the root cause of violence against Catholics.
It is inane secular policies and an ignorant populace.
Yet you pass insults on to Pope Francis, you are a waste of time
gravenimage says
Malcolm (SouthAfria) wrote:
gravenimage
Who are you appealing to?
I believe your government did the same (sic) Iran, hmm paid a plane load of dollars.
………………………………
No one has been more critical of Obama’s suicidal Iran deal than myself. Why does Malcolm believe that I supported that travesty?
More:
Here is a peace of how the leaders of your so called mostly Protestant armada dealt with Mohammedan pirates :
………………………………
Of course, I never referred to the American and British navies as “Protestant armadas”–that is Malcolm’s own absurd characterization. Has he forgotten this?
More:
The U.S. Pays Tribute
After finding American commerce in the Mediterranean had almost stopped due to the pirates, the Continental Congress agreed in 1784 to negotiate treaties with the four Barbary States. Congress appointed a special commission, consisting of John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and Benjamin Franklin, to oversee the negotiations. The following year, Congress authorized a maximum of $80,000 to spend on tribute treaties with all the Barbary States.
In 1787, the United States signed a tribute treaty with Morocco. This proved to be a reasonable treaty, costing the United States a one-time only tribute of about $20,000. Except for a few brief disagreements, Morocco never again harassed American shipping.
………………………………
Of course, no one should have to pay tribute to anyone to safeguard against being pirated or enslaved.
More:
Algiers, the most powerful of the Barbary States, was a different story…
What has this got to do with Protestants, this is secular government.
………………………………
I said that Mike was mistaken in his belief that Protestants had not fought against Jihad, and this is so.
I never said they specifically fought in the name of Protestantism, nor that they flew Protestant banners.
Not every Catholic who fought Islam did so exclusively in the name of Catholicism. Often they fought in the name of their city, or king and crown, or emperor.
For instance, the brave Infidels who fought off the Muslim siege of Vienna in 1683 fought for the Habsburg Monarchy, the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth, and the Holy Roman Empire.
I’m eternally grateful that they won–I would not have considered it somehow more valid if they had specifically fought in the name of Christianity.
*Everyone* has the right to fight against Muslim savagery–they implication that this only valid if done in the name of Catholicism is just silly.
gravenimage says
Yet more from Malcolm (SouthAfria):
Now you have an inkling of how you empower mohammedans, you have no idea of the root cause of violence against Catholics.
It is inane secular policies and an ignorant populace.
…………………………..
Noting that many people have fought back against Islam–not just Catholics–does nothing to empower Mohammedans. Just the opposite, really.
And no–it is not secularists who are attacking Catholics and other Christians. In case Malcolm has not noticed, that would be *Muslims*.
And it is true that much of the populace is clueless about the threat of Islam. One does not rectify that by appeasing Islam, nor by pretending that brave people have not successfully opposed Islam in the past.
Personally, I feel a great debt of gratitude to those–of various faiths–who have kept us safe from the depredations of Islam historically.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Forget about Obama the people on this thread are not stupid you are.
He was voted in by the American populace it does not answer the question where does the Protestant come into your equation.
Are you so ignorant, that an African has to school you?
Trump is in the Saudi camp, he has no option as Russia is in the Iran camp.
You have no understanding of how this political power game is playing out the Mohammedans are manipulating the supper powers for their own ends and they have little to do with religion.
You need to wake up.
By the way the Pope calls a crusade+ the Holy League La-panto exclusively Catholic paid for by Catholics. The Gates of Vienna, exclusively Catholic both headed by Catholics
gravenimage says
I need a bigger shovel. Malcolm (SouthAfria) wrote:
Forget about Obama the people on this thread are not stupid you are.
He was voted in by the American populace
……………………………..
I never said that Obama was not voted in. But I did not vote for him myself, nor did I support many of his policies–certainly, I did not support his disastrous Iran policy.
Malcolm was the one who mentioned Iran–surely he realizes this was done under Obama’s auspices? Or perhaps not…
More:
…it does not answer the question where does the Protestant come into your equation.
……………………………..
As I have noted umpteen times now, it is mistaken to think that Protestants have not fought against Islam. What will it take for this to sink in?
More:
Are you so ignorant, that an African has to school you?
……………………………..
Good grief–I don’t consider Africans inferior to Americans–sad to see that Malcolm seems to. I have at various times learned a great deal from Africans–not from someone who denies that others besides Catholics have fought against Jihad, though.
I have run into irrational denial before, though–I doubt it has anything to do with what continent someone comes from, though.
More:
Trump is in the Saudi camp, he has no option as Russia is in the Iran camp.
You have no understanding of how this political power game is playing out the Mohammedans are manipulating the supper powers for their own ends and they have little to do with religion.
……………………………..
The idea that pious Muslims have “little to do with religion” is absurd. They wage Jihad against us in the name of Islam. And the purpose of violent Jihad is to get Infidels to submit to Islam. How can Malcolm fail to know this?
And the idea of the US being part of the “Saudi camp”, and Russia being part of the “Iran camp” is part of the problem. Muslim nations, Sunni or Shia, are *not our allies*.
More:
You need to wake up.
……………………………..
Believing that Muslims of either sect are our allies does not constitute “waking up”, I’m afraid.
More:
By the way the Pope calls a crusade+ the Holy League La-panto exclusively Catholic paid for by Catholics.
……………………………..
The Holy League was a coalition of European Catholic maritime states arranged by Pope Pius V. It was largely financed by Habsburg Spain.
More:
The Gates of Vienna, exclusively Catholic both headed by Catholics
……………………………..
Indeed so. But they did not specifically in the name of Catholicism–any more than Americans at Tripoli fought specifically in the name of Protestantism.
Really, this concept is *not* all that complex.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
gravenimage
You continue to appeal to an audience who is not willing to come to your aid which you sorely need for affirmation.
Your behavior is typical of a coward, stand up on your own two feet.
gravenimage says
More from Malcolm (SouthAfria):
gravenimage
You continue to appeal to an audience who is not willing to come to your aid which you sorely need for affirmation.
……………………………..
Actually, everything I have said is easily confirmed. I don’t need anyone else for affirmation.
If Malcolm is confused by anything I have said, he should say so, and I will clarify further. But really, this is all quite simple.
Yet more:
Your behavior is typical of a coward, stand up on your own two feet.
……………………………..
Doesn’t Malcolm realize that he is completely contradicting himself here? First he castigates me for not relying on others, then claims that by relying on my own knowledge and logic that I fail to stand on my own two feet.
I suppose his frustration is starting to show, and he is just irrationally lashing out at this point.
Rev G says
To the shores of Tripoli.
Voytek Gagalka says
As if ISIS jihadis would ever listen to the Pope’s calls for end of violence! Because they will not, such calls have only this one practical objective: to disarm US from incoming jihadis onslaught. Feel bad, you inconsistent and unsure of yourselves Christians, so your Pope could feel good about himself! How mean and SELFISH of him!
Nona says
God! I woke up this morning to the realization of the ignorance of the popiola, esp. in projecting his “good will” to the islamics.
He is NOT my pope! I do NOT adhere to his and/or the xtian laws.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Are you Nona, your own pope then?
mortimer says
Francis is unread and unstudied on Islam. His comments are spontaneous, therefore irresponsible.
You are also spontaneous and unstudied.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Well we take it from whence it comes, Einstein.
Rev g says
Better her own pope than to listen to the current one.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Her loss and yours.
Rev G says
Blind following the blind, no thanks. Especially so following the willfully blinded.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Who knows if you in the pit already.
Rev G says
What pit? I know, if you don’t that’s your problem.
gravenimage says
Malcolm, why do you believe that if Christians dare to admit that Islam is a threat that they are damned to hell?
CogitoErgoSum says
But how can an adulteress be stoned to death without violence? How can a blasphemer be beheaded without the spilling of blood? How can a silk purse be made from a sow’s ear?
Jeanette says
Like liberals, nothing matters to Muslims except what they want, and that pertains especially to reason.
Geoffrey Britain says
The Pope is going to be mightily surprised when Jesus “knows him not”. The words of the prophet Isiah apply, “Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!”
Geoffrey Britain says
The Pope is going to be mightily surprised when Jesus “knows him not”. The words of the prophet Isiah apply to this Pope, “Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!”
mortimer says
Don’t overstate your case. Francis wants to be a peacemaker, but appeasement won’t work with supremacists.
Jeanette says
Francis has absolutely no excuse for being ignorant on this issue. He has access to more learning material than any other single human being on this planet.
Surely no one believes that he doesn’t know perfectly well what Islam is, and what the Muslims will continue to do, just as they have done for 1,400 years.
I don’t see how we can consider Francis as making efforts to be a peacemaker when he knows what he is dealing with is totally unreasonable and WILL not live by any peace terms.
He’s just one more authority figure throwing his people under the bus for the benefit of Muslims.
John A. Marre says
If he truly rejects violence in the name of religion, then he must completely reject ISLAM.
Jeanette says
Just more of the double-talk we hear every day from almost every person in a position of high authority.
Michael Poulin says
The large majority of modern Catholics suffer from a disease that makes them desire everyone to behave like Christians without actually making anyone Christian…ain’t gonna happen. This is why the Pope spews a constant blather about his God “Dialogue” which is pointless and never comes to any actual conclusion. He says he’s want’s everyone to skip down the happy path towards the Truth, but he has betrayed, like Judas, his own Catholic faith , the center of which is Jesus Christ Who is the Truth. One cannot claim to be a Christian and reject Jesus as the only path to Truth. Not a single mention in the whole speech as usual.
Kay says
Good point. Godly virtues come from God. Let us proclaim God’s power and love and pray to our merciful God.
Wellington says
Arguably the most disastrous Pope in history. More so than Benedict IX. More so than Boniface VIII. More so than Urban VI. More so than Alexander VI. More so….. More so….. More so…..
Understand, most popes have been shrewd and good men. But not the present one.
Quite the legacy this Pope is piling up. Oh yes, quite the legacy.
And what horrible timing too. Just horrible. But may I say here what admiration I still hold for the previous Pope, Benedict XVI. He is what Popes should be. Francis I most surely is not.
Adrian Johnson says
Historically, the Church was “overdue” for a bad Pope.
Spiritually, the Popes since John XXIII have failed to obey the request of the Virgin of Fatima to warn the faithful by publishing “the third secret” since 1960. Therefore the corruption at the top remained hidden until it was too late to prevent the Freemason Cardinals working for the NWO from electing their man, Bertagoglio, to transition the Catholic Church into accepting the notion of amalgamating into the UN-sponsored “United Religions Institute” little by little through continual and confusing changes liturgy and false “ecumenism”.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Wouldn’t be to hasty in considering any modern day pope as bad. What is bad is disobedience.
gravenimage says
Malcolm (SouthAfria) wrote:
Wouldn’t be to hasty in considering any modern day pope as bad. What is bad is disobedience.
……………………..
The idea that one is not a proper Christian unless one unthinkingly obeys every cleric–no matter how harmful their actions–is entirely mistaken.
Christianity is about heeding one’s conscience–not mindless obedience.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Adrian Johnson has Catholic experience he has good insight, you have none, it is beyond your mental capacity, go away.
gravenimage says
Malcolm (SouthAfria), it not up to you to tell good Anti-Jihadists here to go away. And interesting that you consider it a sign of low mental capacity to reject blind obedience to authority.
VRWC member77 says
Malcom, unfortunately the punk-bergoglio has influence and his hobnobbing chum(p)y relationship with al al-anzar AT THIS POINT IN TIME serves no useful purpose except showing dhimitude on a world-wide scale. He has blood on his hands because -also unfortunately- his idiotic utterances are referenced in political debates that eventually influence policy.
So, I along with many others aren’t concerned about the status of Catholicism or Christianity 80 or 100 years ago. Islam is taking advantage of technology today to spread its rot on a world-wide scale and billions of people AT THIS POINT IN TIME want to see the cancer at the very least, contained. Perhaps 100 years from now, it will be eliminated. Communication technology will help bring that along in a big way.
I’m not going to tell you too many more times about pounding sand here……………….
Wellington says
“Wouldn’t be to {sic} hasty in considering any modern day pope as bad. What is bad is disobedience.”
Well, Malcolm, many people, I would contend, have not been too hasty in criticizing the current pope, including Robert Spencer who is himself a Catholic. Indeed, I think the present pope has caused a great deal of division in the Church among Catholics who see him as a Latin American leftist who does not appear to appreciate the greatness of Western Civilization, of the USA, of capitalism (the only economic system that has ever really worked), and who comes across as a rank (and uninformed) apologist for Islam.
You know, any Christian making excuses for Islam, as this pope surely has and the previous pope surely did not, actually betrays Christianity since Islam denies the crucifixion of Jesus (in Sura 4 beginning at verse 136) and has Jesus coming back at the end of the world and throwing all Christians into Hell for deifying Him. How can any Christian defend Islam as Pope Francis surely has? I can see where a Christian might very well admire other faiths like Hinduism, Buddhism and, of course, Judaism, but a Christian admiring Islam, making excuses for Islam, maintaining that Islam is a peaceful and good religion, all of which Francis has done, is an ignorant Christian, often times a harmful one as well.
As for disobedience being bad, you sound like a traditional Jesuit. Didn’t Loyola himself, the founder of the Jesuits during the pontificate of Paul III, say that if the pope says black is white and white is black he would accept it? Sorry, can’t go there. Don’t know why anyone would. I have too much of the democrat (small “d”) in me to go along with that line of “reasoning.” Blind obedience is an insult to reason and to the integrity of the self. And I say this as one who in many ways admires the Catholic Church but not in this regard.
Finally, you treated gravenimage on this thread most terribly. It made me sick to read some of the things you wrote about her. For the record, there is no long-time commenter here at JW whom I admire more than gravenimage. Not one. Besides, and as usual, she backed up what she contended with copious amounts of evidence and precise reasonoing. You should definitely reconsider your assessment of her, which I think is rooted is significant error. She is about as sharp as a person comes and I think you definitely missed this.
Rev G says
True, one should not overturn the moneylenders tables.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
@ Wellington
My apologies for not responding sooner as i have other commitments.
Thomas Jefferson included the clause separation of Church and State in the constitution in the USA, if did not, then he used quite often.
Like the USA, armed forces included in most countries, are a combination of citizens from different beliefs who are aligned to the State.
To call combatants in any conflict “Protestants”, or mostly, is outrageous in itself, bearing in mind it is a secular conflict.
However if one wishes to conflate the issue between religion and the State for one’s own purpose as in this case, then what is the religious proportion of the combatants as to religious affiliation in the mentioned conflict?
It would be quite strange for any state to announce that a secular conflict was won or lost by Protestant or mostly Protestant.
As always I hold your views in high esteem. As far as pope Francis is concerned on subject of speaking out on Christian persecution. I know he does speak out quite vigorously even in their own back yard. No matter what the MSM says.
There are a few things that I am not so sure of regarding Pope Francis, on the doctrine side which affects Catholics in general, however patience in these matters, are a good thing.
jewdog says
After what happened with the horrific terrorist attacks against Coptic Christians this Easter, I would think that the most appropriate admonitions against religious violence should have been made by the Al-Azhar authorities, not the Pope, who should have run straight to Rome to reassure the Pope and Christians in general by vehemently denouncing jihadist violence. Instead, we get the usual evasive straw man of blaming poverty instead of facing up to the reality of Islamic texts and how they are used, or misused, to incite violence. This would give imams a chance to explain how the jihadist interpretation is so wrong in precise terms, thereby taking the moral lead.
They won’t, of course, because the jihadist interpretation is accurate, and they damn well know it.
John Peluso says
I’m curious to know the political calculations of Dr. Ahmed al-Tayeb. Does standing side-by-side with Pope Francis when the Pope condemns violence in the name of religion in this high-profile, well publicized event, have an adverse effect on Dr. Ahmed’s standing among a meaningful segment of the Muslim world? The Western political logic would answer “yes” because of the implied tacit approval of the Pope’s message, and the inevitable opposition of Muslims who lean more toward the jihadists’ view on the ideological spectrum. Or maybe its not much of a risk because the tactic of deception known as taqiyya is endemic, well-understood by Muslims, and will automatically be the context Muslims use to interpret this event.
This could be a teaching moment for the West. How has this event been reported in Egyptian media outlets and what has been the conversation among Muslims on social media sites? This would be an interesting application of Big Data to test the hypothesis that taqiyya is prevalent and supported by a significant portion of the Muslim population.
I don’t know how to perform such an investigation. Maybe someone else on this forum does and will take up the challenge.
Adrian Johnson says
This I regard as the single most useful comment of all those here.
gravenimage says
Good questions.
I doubt most Muslims would think that Al Azhar is agreeing with the Pope about religious violence, though.
gravenimage says
Pope in Egypt: “Let us say… ‘No!’ to every form of violence…carried out in the name of religion”
…………………
How loudly did the clerics of Al Azhar laugh when he said this?
mortimer says
It is nothing more than VIRTUE-SIGNALLING. The church still possesses a JUST WAR THEORY and not even FRANCIS can change that.
Francis is one millimeter from becoming a heretic.
Adrian Johnson says
There are lists of all his questionable and deliberately ambiguous statements online, and to see them all together makes me think he’s less a heretic (though he is) than an apostate. He’s an excellent actor and he plays a “John XXIII” -style pope of the people very well. Problem is, he’s a Jesuit trained in the marxist Liberation Theology milieu, and is the compleat globalist. He’s setting the Church up for a schism of those who follow him in his NWO utopian ideology, and those who say the Church should be in the business of saving souls, not geopolitics.
Kurt Vogel says
Ever hear of “root cause” Dr. Pope? Get to the bottom of it instead of repeating same things over and over again expecting different results.
Maria says
Before condemning the Pope, think about what would Jesus do if he was in Egypt. Will he go and declare war or Will he go sit with the enemy and try to talk to him?
Jesus didn’t shout on the sinners, he talked to them, went to the places they were. He sat with sinners, talking to them.
Why should the Pope do the opposite?
If he talks about Islam is a negative way, what would be the consequences?
This is The Church of Christ. The Catholic Church, and Pope Francis is the Pope, I don’t agree with him on everything he says, but he is a great Pope.
God bless you Our Pope.
Mike9a says
“If he talks about Islam is a negative way, what would be the consequences?”
———–
What about to start with the truth? Like what their manual (quran) teaches and what they do in practice? Was pope Benedict our pope? Was there ever need for Day-D? Any war ends when?
Pope is infallible when he teaches and promulgate doctrine concerning faith or/and morality. Other than that he is like everyone else: sinner not an expert!
We are dealing with evel in its purest form, only result evil recognize is defeat! Please land on earth.
mortimer says
The issue is complicated because under Sharia law, no kafir may even mention Mohammed, the Koran or Islam in any way, either positive or negative.
If it were only possible, the way out of violence for Muslims would be to reinterpret Islam (which is what President Sisi asked the scholars to do at Al Azhar University). They have responded with complete silence. They are silent because reinterpretation of the primary texts can’t be done.
Islam is not going to be reformed. Islam is still at war with Christianity. They only way out of the violence is to deprogram Muslims right out of Islam. It’s the only way.
Michael Poulin says
Pope Francis and his kind are not “great Popes”. They actually teach 100% the opposite of what the Church has taught for centuries. Only lazy and deliberately ignorant Catholics who fail to study their own historical faith cannot but come to any other conclusion.
.
Here is a great example of an earlier papal teaching which is completely ignored and even condemned by Francis:
..
“…
13. Now We consider another abundant source of the evils with which the Church is afflicted at present: indifferentism. This perverse opinion is spread on all sides by the fraud of the wicked who claim that it is possible to obtain the eternal salvation of the soul by the profession of any kind of religion, as long as morality is maintained. Surely, in so clear a matter, you will drive this deadly error far from the people committed to your care. With the admonition of the apostle that “there is one God, one faith, one baptism” may those fear who contrive the notion that the safe harbor of salvation is open to persons of any religion whatever. They should consider the testimony of Christ Himself that “those who are not with Christ are against Him,” and that they disperse unhappily who do not gather with Him. Therefore without a doubt, they will perish forever, unless they hold the Catholic faith whole and inviolate. …”
.
Mirari Vos
On Liberalism And Religious Indifferentism
Encyclical Of Pope Gregory XVI August 15, 1832
.
“Pope” Francis the Lukewarm thoroughly embraces this indifferentism. No mention of Jesus in his entire speech, no attempt to convert those Moslems around him. Francis is a “pope” in name only, and he should be ignored by Catholics as irrelevant and dangerously heretical.
Michael F Poulin
Adrian Johnson says
You hit the nail on the head. Bang.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Maybe missed the nail, multiple times.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Here resides the problem, we do no judge who is a good Pope and who is not, unless we know the facts.
It is well known that the papacy does not operate through the media, say for instance the Democratic party M S M and Hillary opposed to Trump and social media.
It is well known that Pope Francis is not afraid to stand up for Christian minorities in hostile lands. He is doing that right now in Egypt. He does this in personal communication.
The issues of the world, the threat to peace and stability have mainly been secular political such as global strategic interest among power blocks, in the West and East.
The Mohammedans have used their religion as a rallying point to fight who ever they think is their enemy. the arms industry in both cases are more than willing to sell their hardware in support of opposing blocks for National interest.
Human rights Democracy is a political toy.
What in the world has Pope Francis got to do with this?
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
It is so marvelous to have Christ the King as the only one we worship and a visible leader appointed for the ONE Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, that Christ Himself created.
How dull is it, to have a political leader or a monarchy an ideology, left or right above Christ The King and the Church He established.
Viva the Catholic Church, viva the Mass, viva the Holy Eucharist and viva Pope Francis.
gravenimage says
Maria, Jesus did not pretend that violent sinners were following a creed that taught peace.
Jesus loved the sinner, but never pretended that sin itself was a good thing. He always called out evil.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
That is rich coming from you gravenimage
mortimer says
It is MORALLY REPREHENSIBLE for Pope Francis to encourage weakness in the face of implacable Islamic enemies.
The pope’s POLLYANNA-LIKE KUMBAYA-SINGING will leave the West vulnerable to attacks. The NAIVETY of Francis and his CULPABLE NEGLIGENCE in not learning and MASTERING the JIHAD DOCTRINE bring shame on his church.
Adrian Johnson says
I would call it “studied naivety”— he’s a Jesuit, and know what he is doing. The Jesuits have systematically been betraying the Papacy and the Church for all the 20th century. See: “The Jesuits” by the late, former Jesuit, Fr Malachi Martin. Though an old book, It totally explains Pope Francis.
Thomaspj Poovathinkal SSP says
HUMAN, INTELLECTUAL, LIGHT IS NOT THE SAME AS THE LIGHT OF CHRIST THE LORD TO LEAD US TO SALVATION. TO SPREAD The Light of Christ the Lord, we can learn from THE DIVINE and THE SEHION Retreat Centres. This involves exercising true Apostleship of Jesus The Lord and the CONSEQUENCE is EVANGELIZATION of The World and it’s People.
tgusa says
He is preaching to the right choir in Egypt. Yes, by all means, get them to stop the islamic inquisition!
But should I even mention, inquisition.
I mean, who started this inquisition stuff and who were the ones who went along, fell in line? The inquisitions of not too long ago seem very similar to what we see today. The pope really should have contemplated that and come down much harder on the horror than he has.
mortimer says
The Inquistion began to find Muslim taqiyya artists hiding in Spain.
Rev g says
After taking back Spain from muslim conquest and rule for centuries.
Thomaspj Poovathinkal SSP says
“This all sounds good, but this is the man who said that “authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence.”
ALL Organized Religions are CORRUPTED. Hence when GOING back to the SOURCE : THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, we are ALL ONE.
Rev g says
allah is satan, I guess that makes islam Abrahamic, through Ismail?
Jeanette says
Why would Allah being Satan make Islam Abrahamic? Seems more like that would make Islam Satanic.
Allah aside, Islam might be Abrahamic because Abraham’s inability to keep it in his pants saddled the planet with Ishmael, who saddled us with the Arabs, who invented and mostly follow Islam.
Thanks a bunch, Abraham – your extramarital sex is responsible for 270 MILLION people murdered, another 185 million enslaved, and the entire world now in danger of the same.
Rev g says
A childless senior citizen is accused by you of inability to keep it in his pants? Your ignorance on the issue is appalling.
Thomaspj Poovathinkal SSP says
Mario Joseph (the former Maulavi Sulaiman) may also say that.
Thomaspj Poovathinkal SSP says
“In greeting Al-Azhar’s sinister Ahmed al-Tayeb, Francis was once again photographed grinning happily while Tayeb stares back coldly. Every photo of them captures the same expressions, and they are a parable for the “interfaith dialogue” scam and for the Western leaders’ attitude as compared with that of the leaders of Muslim countries: the naive and ignorant Westerner reaching out in unfeigned friendship, happy to prove himself “tolerant” and not “Islamophobic,” while his Muslim counterpart, far more aware of what is going on, reacts coolly, and does not reveal what he is thinking.
But those who are aware of the contempt for Christians that is in the Qur’an and Sunnah, and the nature and magnitude of the global jihad, will have a pretty good idea of what is going through al-Tayeb’s mind.
“Leave them; they are blind guides. And if a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.” (Matthew 15:14)”
The DEPUTY P.M. of POLAND, Jarosław Gowin said about Pope Francis, “He is concerned with the SALVATION OF SOULS. I am concerned with your SECURITY.” (REPORTED in THE TELEGRAPH, INDIA)This happened when Pope Francis visited Poland last time for World Youth Day.
HERE LIES the SECRETS of the POPE and the POLITICIAN. The Pope is NOT asking any POLITICIAN to BECOME THE POPE, OK?
FYI says
It’s the love that dares not speak its name..
The love and admiration the fraudulent dhimmi pontiff francis has for islam and it seems for mr al-tayeb.
Maybe francis and mr al-tayeb should get a room…and afterwards francis can publicly wash mr al-tayeb’s feet in a sign of his great humility(or perhaps to make the Christian world look weak.francis is very good at that).
Don Horrell says
Oh MY, I feel a lot better; at least now I know the Pope drinks also.
Pal says
Orthodox Patriarch Bartholomew joins Pope Francis in Cairo:
“World is entering post secular age”:
https://cruxnow.com/pope-francis-in-egypt/2017/04/28/orthodox-patriarch-cairo-world-entering-post-secular-age/
Pal says
Bartholomew: It’s a “prejudice: Islam does not equal terrorism, because terrorism is a stranger to any religion” he said to applause…
Adrian Johnson says
Listening to this saccharine twaddle makes me violently ill.
Pardon me while I lose my breakfast.
Thomaspj Poovathinkal SSP says
“Seriously, Francis notes the “incompatibility of violence and faith” and says: “Let us say once more a firm and clear ‘No!’ to every form of violence, vengeance and hatred carried out in the name of religion or in the name of God.”
This all sounds good, but this is the man who said that “authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence.”
Does ISLAM or Muslims accept the FIRST PREMISE of the argument OF POPE FRANCIS?
yes, IF Pope Francis already EVANGELISED them.
Thomaspj Poovathinkal SSP says
IT IS BETTER that we Christians accept THE TRUTH (“Come to know THE TRUTH and THE TRUTH will make you FREE”, so said Jesus The Lord.) that we are NOT an EVANGELIZED group of PEOPLE as a whole (except those in Retreat Centres like THE SEHION and THE DIVINE, Kerala, INDIA and elsewhere) to evangelize others WITH our own ideas, ideals and aspirations. So we are like those in Luke 7, 29 – 30 :
“All the people, even the tax collectors, when they heard Jesus’ words, acknowledged that God’s way was right, because they had been baptized by John. 30 But the Pharisees and the experts in the law rejected God’s purpose for themselves, because they had not been baptized by John”
IN THE PRIMITIVE CHURCH every christian was an APOSTLE. So, for this reason true EVANGELIZATION took place. As for Jesus The Lord, he went on promoting more and more People to Apostleship.
Only true Apostles of The Lord can EVANGELIZE others and not just any one, not even an office HOLDER like a Pope or a Bishop. OFFICE belongs to an INSTITUTION. Institution is a WORLDLY product, a product or creation of mere men. BUT THE TRUE CHURCH of The LORD was NOT and is NOT an INSTITUTION.
The TRUE CHURCH of Jesus The Lord was THE MOVEMENT of God’s SALVATION on earth through the power of his HOLY SPIRIT making use of those who FOLLOWED and OBEYED Jesus The Lord, keeping his Word unto DEATH. Hence the VITAL requirement of MARTYRDOM.
Kay says
Sadly I think you’re right. I wish our governments would become sensible and protect us from the threats–and maybe they will . . .
In any case, each of us must determine whether we will drink Christ’s cup.
Adrian Johnson says
Pope Francis tells us Catholics not to “proselytise” for the Catholic Faith; it’s “disrespectful” of other faiths. He says if you are a good Muslim or Buddhist, etc, you are pleasing to God. This is not Catholic doctrine.
Catholics are supposed to evangelise not “be ecumenical” — The Church formally condemns indifferentism, –which Pope Francis advocates.
This Pope ain’t Catholic.
gravenimage says
Actually, any Christian can share the good news with others. This is not limited to certain people who knew Jesus personally.
Thomaspj Poovathinkal SSP says
Any Christian CANNOT but any one ANOINTED by the Spirit of Jesus The Lord for this PURPOSE CAN share the GOOD NEWS..
Rev G says
So true GI.
Thomaspj Poovathinkal SSP says
“This all sounds good, but this is the man who said that “authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence.”
The Pope is trying to appeal to the goodness and the TRUTH element in Islam, He is trying to appeal to good PEOPLE in Islam. BUT THEN He HAS TO BE like a MOTHER caring for his SHEEP. Others may have their OPINIONS and INTERESTS as to what the POPE SHOULD DO.
FOR THIS POPE, military approach, overt or covert is no MORE A PRIVILEGE. That time is OVER. And I BELIEVE IT IS RIGHT and GOOD for the WORLD.
Troybeam says
This Pope has put the church at risk for his appeasement of Islam, he does not acknowledge the threat which will be the churches demise.
Jeanette says
Perhaps he is communist before Catholic?
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
Pope John Paul II spoke out for freedom, a thing central to Judeo-Christian teachings. He even teamed up with Reagan and Thatcher to bring communism to its knees. A generation later we have Pope Frank, from scofflaw Beunos Aires no less, speaking out for globo-socialism. His teachings dovetail with dozens of socialist leaders (Merkel, Obama, Chavez, et al.) who are presiding over a slow decline into economic catastrophe that will have, indeed already has had awful social consequences. Frank’s divine belief that the supply of other people’s money is endless.
And that’s before you even get to the other world takeover belief system: Islam. Big trouble is on the horizon, and Pope Frank is waving it in the door.
Thomaspj Poovathinkal SSP says
NEVER MIND. WE all must have a REASON to DIE FOR : Jesus The Lord. And he HIMSELF will be our sure and certain REWARD, for HE IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD, OUR SAVIOR.
FALSE teachers,Gurus and Prophets and their FOLLOWERS where will they END UP?
Politicianphobia says
La ilaha illa Allah and the mass murder continues…….. blah blah blah
Sarah says
I refuse to believe that the man who was chosen and elevated to lead the Catholic Church is simply ignorant in the ways of Islam.
That is too stupid for words. Of course he knows. He is very aware of what Islam represents, what Islam promises and what Islam wants.
The only question is – what are his true motivations for his deception? I’m an Atheist – so for me, the notion of an Antichrist Pope that I’ve heard about just don’t sit with me for obvious reasons. And I cannot imagine that the same guy who leads the CC actually would believe himself to be the guy who brings about the end of the church and the world – and carry out his role in making that happen. There isn’t a jot of logic to that nonsense.
So what is he up to? Sure he’s being PC – but there’s far more to this than meets the eye. And its that wider picture that isn’t being admitted to for whatever reason, that is seriously alarming.
Adrian Johnson says
He’s an authentic globalist and holds the same ideal of the NWO. He was elected by globalist cardinals who are Freemasons. It may not make sense to an atheist, however there are prophecies that the last pope will be a betrayer (“The false prophet” of the Apocalypse) and will transition the Church into laxity that will permit the seductive charm of the antichrist to fool multitudes of people into accepting him as a geopolitical dictator with predictable results.
Jeanette says
It has also been foretold (by St. Malachy, I believe) that the Church will be destroyed and that pope will be murdered.
Doesn’t Francis read, or is he such a strong communist that he doesn’t believe any religious writing?
If the latter, what a pope to have!
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
If it is between Malachy so called prophecy and the Promise of Christ, that the gates of hell will not prevail over the Church. I chose Christ Word every time.
However Pope John Paul ll came close to assassination, so you must have been disappointed as you come up with weird assumptions.
Samuel says
As a Catholic, it is sad to see Pope Frances always pushing for more migration of Muslims into the West. This will only end badly. There’s a YouTube series “Among the Ruins of Christendom” which discusses the real possibility of Saint Paul’s one day becoming a Mosque if things continue as they are: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKFXnoIjhTA
Jeanette says
It sure feels like this pope is in on the destruction of western civilization.
He certainly hasn’t done much toward preserving it.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
Western society has been in destruct mode since the 16th century.
We kill unborn babies, we have turned to sexual pleasure as a god above God and rejected a stable life where children can grow up and experience the world in a stable environment, we have chosen one parent families and work above our culture and traditions. We have given up the Mass for entertainment, we have chosen false prophets for moral guidance instead of Gods laws.
Europe is doomed, unless it changes its wicked ways, then it will live. It is forced to get mohammedan labor for work Europeans are to good to do.
This has nothing to do with the Catholic Church or Pope Francis it has a lot to do with us and our stupidity.
gravenimage says
Muslims don’t do much work–mostly they collect welfare and plot violent Jihad. It is Westerners who work hard.
Malcolm (SouthAfria) says
You are a Fake gravenimage.
I know Muslims who are hard working, your prejudices cloud your judgement, stick to google.
There are people of every race and creed who are lazy and collect welfare, your country created the system in your land, so people take advantage of it, is it only your ilk that is entitled ?
Thomaspj Poovathinkal SSP says
This Pope LEAVES the DEFENSE of PEOPLE and NATIONS to the GOVERNMENTS. It is their DUTY and NOT his.
UNCLE VLADDI says
Both of them are completely close-minded idolaters: one worships Fear as God, the other worships Hope as God. And both “Fear” and “Hope” are static idols, ‘abstracted’ or removed from their dynamic situational circumstances: “Fear” FROM or to do, what, exactly?! “HOPE” to do – or refrain from doing – WHAT, exactly?! “Faith!” in what (or in Who – doing, or refraining from doing, WHAT, exactly?)!
Thus, they are perfect, complementary opposites.
These are not religious men of conscience; they are religions-salesmen!
And, as some wag once said:
“The only thing both militarists (muslims) and pacifists (christians) can agree on, is that there should be no resistance to violent military aggression!”
UNCLE VLADDI says
Why do criminal gangsters form one gang defend the criminal “rights” (to remain irresponsibly wrong) of any other, much less all other, criminal gang enterprises, too?
Why do they accept other criminals ‘right’ to attack them, first, when they are otherwise hypocrites, all about the subjective double-standards where only they have rights, and all others only ever have responsibilities – to them?!
Why to they all “GO ALONG” (with criminal lies) “TO GET ALONG” (with all the other lying criminals)?
Here’s both how and why:
It’s because their own inherent intrinsic and instinctive primary individual crime-excusing alibi is the slanderous and victim-blaming Argumentum Tu Quoque – that “WE (i.e: you) ALL DO IT, TOO!”
If and when they choose to stand for nothing, (no cause/effect) they choose to fall for anything.
It’s why the current, treasonous gangster “socialist” allegedly Christian pope always defends islam.
All criminals ultimately pretend there are no facts (proudly and falsely ‘confessing’ they are non-compus mentis) and all their ‘crimes’ are only mistakes, because we’re all only helpless victims!
And, oddly enough (since they slander everyone else by choosing to pretend to think of us all as equally predatory criminal aggressors, out to get them, too) they insist all mistakes were intended (i.e: crimes) such that they can be relied on to go into denial and false pride, to assert that if and when they are caught in a mistake, they lie about that, too, claiming “I MEANT to do that!”
Desiree says
This poop critter Franchise is a Jesuit….
So he is not only trained and educated, but also took an oath, to do nothing else but lie, interfere, infiltrate, cheat and kill…
Thomaspj Poovathinkal SSP says
THE POPE IS JUST TRYING TO PROTECT HIS OWN SHEEP. HIS FIRST PREMISE IS AIMED AT THAT.
Campos Mário says
Infame traitor !
Joel says
I’m 50 years old. Brought up in the Catholic Church “religiously” (no pun intended). I’d heard and read several times over that this pope will be the last Catholic pope. I’m not a big prophecy guy, hell,
I’ve survived several “end of the earth” scenarios at this point. But, I’ve got to wonder if this one prophecy is the real deal. Seems like he wants to open the Gates of Vienna himself. It’s one thing to turn the other cheek, but it’s another to subject your “flock” to slaughter.
Thing is, we were brainwashed to believe that any decision the pope makes is righteous; however, my large frontal lobe and common sense tells me this guy is not our protector and ally. Beware all Christians, Jews, atheists, Buddhists and whosoever else that isn’t Muslim.
Thomaspj Poovathinkal SSP says
ONE WHO does not HELP himself CANNOT be expected to be HELPED by OTHERS, whether Governments, friends or anybody else. In the same way ONE WHO does not PROTECT HIMSELF cannot be expected to be helped by OTHERS.
WHY NOT people PROTECT THEMSELVES, first of all? Are GOVERNMENTS trustworthy? or POLICE or ARMY?
SELF PROTECTION, SELF DEFENSE first of all. AND THEN ONE MUST HAVE A REASON TO DIE FOR. Others’ HELP or PROTECTION may be or may not be there.
Thomaspj Poovathinkal SSP says
DURING THE LAST WYD (WORLD YOUTH DAY) IN POLAND IN 2016, THE DEPUTY P.M. OF POLAND, IT IS WHO SAID OF POPE FRANCIS, “HIS DUTY IS TO SAVE SOULS AND MY DUTY IS TO SEE TO YOUR SECURITY.” POPE FRANCIS’S WORDS AND EFFORTS ARE AIMED AT THAT. AND WHO ARE WE TO BLAME HIM?
Thomaspj Poovathinkal SSP says
IF anybody EXPECTS Pope Francis to PLAY an army captain,HE is very much mistaken. The Church in our times is too much ADVANCED in HUMAN WISDOM to do that. Besides, the Church has also learned from the PAST. So NO going to the past to learn from it to do the same thing in our present TIMES. IN THE PAST, the Popes may have DIRECTED NATIONS and ARMIES, but no more it is going to happen in the same way.
Thomaspj Poovathinkal SSP says
The Thoughts and goals of BOTH these leaders do not MATCH. LOOK at their BODY LANGUAGE. INSTEAD of wasting WORDS and ENERGY in such kind of exercises, Pope Francis could DECLARE to his followers and to his Church, that we are NOT an EVANGELIZED PEOPLE and that we are like THOSE in Luke 7, 29 – 30 i.e. THE PHARISEES AND THE EXPERTS :
“All the people, even the tax collectors, when they heard Jesus’ words, acknowledged that God’s way was right, because they had been baptized by John. 30 But the Pharisees and the experts in the law rejected God’s purpose for themselves, because they had not been baptized by John.”
This CAN CAUSE US TO rethink AND change OUR DIRECTION TOWARDS REPENTANCE TO ENTER THE KINGDOM UNLIKE THE PHARISEES AND THEIR FRIENDS.
Thomaspj Poovathinkal SSP says
TWO CLEVER MEN trying to conquer each other?
Thomaspj Poovathinkal SSP says
Christianisation is ONE THING – just get hold of the HEAD MAN of the tribe and make him happy with all kinds of foods, drinks and other materials and conveniences and all the tribe come into the net or throw holy water or food or what not and some people come into the net – it is called Missionary ACTIVITY but EVANGELISATION is another thing. It is DONE BY the TRUE APOSTLES of The Lord. Here we get MARTYRS in PLENTY for into the HEARTS of such people THE WORD of GOD has found it’s way through the preachings of People annointed by the HOLY SPIRIT. SIGNS of the KINGDOM appear in PLENTY among such people .And these People will not FALL AWAY when the circumstances change or persecution arise.
Thomaspj Poovathinkal SSP says
“In greeting Al-Azhar’s sinister Ahmed al-Tayeb, Francis was once again photographed grinning happily while Tayeb stares back coldly.”
THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS when CLEVER MEN meet together unlike MEN COMMISSIONED by Jesus The Lord.
David Conell says
If the readers can, let’s focus on the Pope’s exhortation itself because it goes right to the heart of the matter which is the Islamic doctrine on the nature of God. For the Islamic understanding is in error because it is contrary to the correct nature of God and thus contrary to human nature. The Islamic god is a god of violence and Islam therefore compels violence. This was the message of Pope Benedict delivered not in Cairo, but Regensberg in 2006. So consider Benedict’s message delivered.
denis says
In what Utopian world is this pope living. Muslims preach and teach that this pope is a person of the book, a non-believer, a kafir. To Muslims he is an enemy to be killed because he could never be converted to Islam. This pope is actually kissing the asses of this Islamic religion of hatred and despair. It is a religion that is not compatible with modern society. It is a religion of violence. The only way Islam can gain a respectable place in a modern society is by reforming itself from within and by preaching the Christian way and that is “To love our fellow man,”
This pope is an idiot.
Thomas Poovathinkal says
SINCE false Apostles INSTITUTIONALIZED the Church of The Lord, This Pope too is continuing in the same line. He is taking care of The Institution of the Church and the members of the institution in a reasonable way. IF he were to ACT in line with Peter in the ACTS OF THE APOSTLES, it would be different and he would CONTINUE to FOLLOW, OBEY Jesus The Lord and his Holy Spirit. And the main and the most important OCCUPATION of his would have been THE PROCLAMATION OF TH GOD’S WORD.
Thomaspj Poovathinkal SSP says
Vatican City, Jul 23, 2017 / 05:07 am (CNA/EWTN News).- On Sunday POPE FRANCIS SAID, good and evil are often entwined, and that as sinners, we can’t label any one group or institution as bad, since we all face temptation and have the ability to choose which path to follow.
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-the-choice-between-good-evil-is-one-we-all-have-to-make-78564/?utm_source=CNA&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily_newsletter
Thomaspj Poovathinkal SSP says
“In greeting Al-Azhar’s sinister Ahmed al-Tayeb, Francis was once again photographed grinning happily while Tayeb stares back coldly”
ARE WE ALL TRUTH SEEKERS like India’s Swami VIVEKANANDA? He at the end (UNLIKE the MAHATMA who said, “I LIKE CHRIST but NOT Christians.”) of his search ended up SAYING, “If we want SALVATION keep close to CHRIST.”, “HE is higher than ANY OTHER GOD you can ever IMAGINE.”, “IF you don’t believe he is GOD. then DON’T BELIEVE HIM.” etc, etc.
Please Refer : COMPLETE WORKS, Volume No. 8,page No. 190-191, “INCARNATION or AVATARA?” Mayavati Memorial Edition, Champavat, HIMALATAS, year 2002
* PEOPLE enslaved by ORGANIZED RELIGIONS are NOT NECESSARILY DESTINED to enjoy ETERNAL HAPPINESS unlike THE TRUTH SEEKERS.