Lamyaa’s exchange with her father has gone viral, trumpeted as evidence that women, specifically hijab-wearing women, are not oppressed and are wearing it, as Linda Sarsour and others insist, by their own choice. Lamyaa did receive some pushback, however, from people who pointed out that for many Muslim women, wearing the hijab is quite clearly not a choice. Lamyaa responded by defending Islam: “Women — in the Middle East specifically — face oppression but it is due to culture not religion.”
This is a common argument, but it is no more coherent for being common. It strains credulity beyond the breaking point to think that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, the Kingdom of the Two Holy Places, which prides itself on enforcing Sharia in its fullness, would allow this cultural hangover that supposedly contradicts Islam to persist.
What’s more, Lamyaa’s father may be a generous soul, but he is not in the slightest degree representative of the Saudi position on women’s freedom to wear the hijab or not. Just last December, a Saudi woman was arrested for venturing out in public with her head uncovered; she also received numerous death threats from Saudi men who would heap contempt upon the idea that to wear or not wear the hijab is “no man’s decision to make.” No one in Saudi Arabia piped up at the time to remind authorities that the forced hijab was “cultural” and not “religious.”
And it is, in fact, religious. A hadith depicts Muhammad saying to a woman, “‘O Asma’, when a woman reaches the age of menstruation, it does not suit her that she displays her parts of body except this and this,’ and he pointed to her face and hands.” (Sunan Abu Dawud 4092)
When considered authentic by Islamic scholars, Muhammad’s words are normative for Islamic law.
BuzzFeed and the other establishment media outlets are thrilled that Lamyaa has struck back against President Trump and the “Islamophobes.” Great. And how infinitely greater it would have been if the claims that are being made on the basis of her father’s statements were even remotely true.
“After Someone Claimed This Teen’s Dad Would ‘Beat Her’ For Taking Off Her Hijab, She Texted Her Dad,” by Tanya Chen, BuzzFeed, April 17, 2017:
This is 17-year-old Lamyaa from Pennsylvania. Her dad is currently living in Saudi Arabia.
Lamyaa is a part of an active group chat started by one of her friends where the subject of President Trump and the tense political climate was brought up.
“I personally had very strong views [on Trump] considering the presidency did impact me because I am an Arab, Muslim woman,” she told BuzzFeed News.
When she identified herself as a Muslim woman, and criticized the president’s views on Islam, one person in the chat tried to shut her down aggressively. They claimed she should stop defending a faith that wouldn’t allow her to “take that scarf off or [her] dad would beat” her.
Lamyaa said there were mutual friends in the group chat she didn’t know, but she believed the mere fact she was Muslim set this person off.
“That guy didn’t feel comfortable so he said what he said,” Lamyaa suspected.
Lamyaa said she is more or less used to this kind of response from non-Muslim Americans, but she felt she needed to prove the person wrong. So she texted her dad in Saudi Arabia.
Lamyaa didn’t intend to not wear her hijab. But she texted her dad to gauge his reaction: “I was thinking I want to take my hijab off,” she wrote to him.
Her dad responded with his support, saying it’s not his decision to make. “If it’s what you feel like you want to do, go ahead. I’ll support you no matter what,” he wrote back.
Lamyaa wanted to share her dad’s response publicly to dispel this kind of “mentality” people have toward all Muslim women who wear a hijab. Her texts with her dad have gone massively viral, with over 142,000 retweets currently….
But there were some angered responses from people, and other Muslim women, who pointed out that they don’t feel the same kind of liberties about their hijabs from their parents. They felt Lamyaa’s tweet erased their oppression.
“They misunderstood my tweet, but I do understand their anger,” Lamyaa said in response. “My intention was in no way, shape, or form to speak over or offend anyone.”
“Women — in the Middle East specifically — face oppression but it is due to culture not religion,” she added.
“People often mix the two and say the cultural practices are religious practices. That is far from the truth.”…
Vomit inducing. Even if this exchange isn’t staged, it tells nothing about the millions of women who are being oppressed and forced to wear the hijab. Women who would be beaten into submission for even suggestion the removal of the hijab in public. But muslims and their liberal allies use this to “prove” there is no oppression and intolerance to be found in Islam. Deception and stupidity goes hand in hand.
gravenimagesays
So true.
JW_Readersays
Right now, YASER ABDEL SAID is on FBI’s Top Ten Most Wanted List. This Muslim men from Egypt killed his own two teenage daughters in Texas. Before killing his own daughters, he often admonished and beat them for not wearing hijabs and not living like a good muslim women. Mr Said can enlighten some Hijabophiles about the choice some muslim women have – hijab or death. The case was also profiled several times on America’s Most Wanted in old days.
gravenimagesays
It was extensively covered here, as well.
Don Fosssays
Confirmed. I know from 7 years experience and having Muslima friends in the workplace, very few women want to wear the hijab. I have been told that virtually none want to wear abiya (black coverings with niqab….face covering). It’s the husband, brothers and even the sons making those decisions for the women. And they’d better follow their rules.
carolsays
I’m sure her dad would “support her no matter what” if she were planning to do this back in SA. And the disgusting tangle of Islam IS the result of a toxic admixture of culture with an evil excuse for a “religion”. She’s a stupid girl. She and many others should be forced to watch this Pat Condell video:
Sandra Solomon BTW, plans a “Burn the Burka day” every July 1. Condell’s video convinces me this is a worthwhile pursuit.
Keithsays
I wonder if her father would have given the same response if they had both been in Saudi Arabia, knowing what would have happened to her and the shame it would bring on the family if she went out not wearing her hijab.
gravenimagesays
Surely not.
Don Fosssays
Can’t.
Karen Gsays
I lived in Saudi as an expat for over 8yrs and the pressure for Saudi women or those married to a Saudi to cover is very strong. My one friend who was married to a Saudi was receiving death threats if she didn’t cover, they were threatening to kill her children. Needless to say she covered up. The religion of pease my ass.
And big contradiction in both it’s holy texts and among it’s followers.
In a religion it should be like; there is a definitive authority and if you are in this religion but deviate from it’s core tenets, then you get thrown out, by that definitive authority, who tells you to start your own group.
But in Islam it’s the other way around; nobody may leave THIS religion!
Don Fosssays
Qur’an 2:106 makes Islam duelism. There are two different Allahs and two different Muhammads. Let’s just be thankful that most Muslims follow pre-hijrah Islam and conveniently ignore 2:106.
It is my hope that we in the West can make the confusion bigger and bigger, at least for the Muslims who can still think straight and be honest to themselves.
gravenimagesays
Dear Dwmsci, this is intended to shut down criticism of Islam’s appalling treatment of women. I’m not sure I’d applaud this as a positive.
No, no GI, I want no shutting down criticism of Islam’s repugnant tenets, no. No, I want optimal discussion and reaction to that and confusion among the sometimes thinking and doubting and reasonably honest Muslims because of that.
In my experience it’s the Muslims who try to censor, weasel out of discussions, shout opponents down, threathen them.
This one Muslima tried to give an answer to a criticism that irritated her. But of course most of what she provoked was rejection of her “show” or “evidence” and more critique on Islam.
Willsays
izzlam is a little shop of horrors …………
Westmansays
As Imams love to say, it’s out of context. Here is the correct context:
“Sweetheart that’s not my decision to make – in America.”
“That’s no man’s decision to make – in America.”
“If it’s what you feel you want to do – in America – go ahead.”
“Don’t do that in Saudi Arabia or you’ll be beaten.”
That’s why I hate what the likes of this woman and Linda Sarsour are doing.
They act as if they are Americans and in that category the subgroup of Muslims of America. But we see them as Muslims first and in the American subgroup of Muslims.
And we may not even ask them, to openly declare where their highest loyalty lies; In the nation America or in the religion of Islam. WHEN THE TWO CONTRADICT (in laws, national interest etc).
Anyway it would still be a useless question because even if all Muslims were to state that Islam has their highest loyalty, over America, even when the laws, interests of both contradict,
Then still the American left and political corrects would not allow ANY “discrimination on grounds of religion”. And they would not even consider that religion is a choice, not an accident of birth.
Ricksays
Let the msm women move to Saudi Arabia and see how that goes!!! The msm is the devils mouthpiece
mortimersays
Exactly. After a week in Soddy Barbaria, they’d be begging to leave.
Thomassays
A week after the Dina Ali Lasloom story – somehow I question if this was planted as a PR move by the Saudis as a good news story demonstrating the benevolence of Saudi society. Or am I too cynical?
SKsays
If not, it was probably spurred by the story.
Troybeamsays
“Women — in the Middle East specifically — face oppression but it is due to culture not religion,” she added.
This girl has been told lies and she needs a quick education on to what is the difference between culture and Islamic sharia law concerning women and what is demanded of them to wear and what happens when not obeyed.
Benedictsays
“If it’s what you feel like you want to do, go ahead.” –
No one in the West would probably disagree with this statement when it comes to wearing or not wearing a headscarf.
But where and when does “feel like you want to do” cross the threshold into the gender bender madness we are infested with in the West, exemplified by *boys* wearing headscarves and makeup while claiming they are girls?
“Women — in the Middle East specifically — face oppression…” , but we in the West are often spurred to face and accept – if it’s not imposed on us with religious zealotry – a freedom to expression that’s often heart wrenching and transgressive. And what’s the solution to that?
overmansays
To wear or not to wear the hijab: that is the question:
Whether ’tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them.
Some ppl think it’s ‘fake news’ to say women have to wear the hijab, or other veils in places like Saudi.
This was on reddit [with response]:
“Stop spreading the fake news that women are forced to wear hijabs.
Response: It’s their free choice between wearing them or getting stoned to death.”
This is YOUR choice!
Not the choice of woman all over the globe!
KEEP YOUR CHOICE, YOUR CHOICE!
Do not treatht other woman who do not want to be part of your de- hu milliation towards woman .
Your life is yours.
Our life is ours.
AND, We do not want to be part of Islam, wich is our human right!!
Paladinsays
What is lost in all this is that this young muslima has the FREEDOM to choose to wear hijab or not only in America. Notice that she isn’t able to make that choice whilst living in Saudi Arabia. Also, this might be an example of taqqiya. I wouldn’t be shocked if “Baba” turns out to be someone other than dear old dad…
overmansays
Yeah, he doesn’t sound like your typical muslim daddy.
gravenimagesays
Also quite possible.
Christian Beltramsays
The father in this case is lying in order to portray Islam in a positive light. If he had his way, not only would all women and girls be required to wear the hijab regardless of their religion, but all women would be banned from driving cars and all of the laws in the Sharia that oppress and degrade women and girls would be imposed on non-Muslim societies with a vengeance!
gravenimagesays
Saudi dad tells daughter hijab is her choice, Western media thrilled, Saudi women still face arrest for taking off hijab
………………….
Well, nice to know dad probably wouldn’t beat or kill her if she ever decides to take off her Hijab.
That does not much help the other millions of women who *do* face such violence, though, both from their families and from Muslim authorities.
Assuming, of course, that the whole thing wasn’t just a stunt to shut down the “Islamophobe” who dared bring up the issue in the first place.
Willsays
Every woman in Saudi Arabia, regardless of age, has a legal male guardian, often a father or brother or son. Guardians have the power to make a range of critical decisions on a woman’s behalf. Women need to get their permission to travel abroad, marry and sometimes to work or access health care.
The guardianship system is “the most significant impediment to realizing women’s rights in the country,” Human Rights Watch said in a report released last year .
This was about the choice of de-veiling outside of Saudi Arabia……
Dennissays
It is very difficult to go against tradition. This girl like many religious people is conditioned to cover her head. So are Amish, Mennonites,orthodox Jewesses. It is not really a choice is it. I met a Kuwaiti women attending school in Idaho. Who was told that she would lose her scholarship if she didn’t cover up!
.
carolsays
Dennis…it’s still not comparable. Years ago if you entered a church (especially Catholic) you were expected to wear a hat or headscarf mainly as a respectful, dressed-up formality. People would have resented non-conformity but their “non-bogus” religions would not have spurred them on to mentally or physically abuse such women.
Also, Mr. Spencer seems to have corrected the widespread assumption that covering up is not “required”. As he has put it:
“No one in Saudi Arabia piped up at the time to remind authorities that the forced hijab was “cultural” and not “religious.
And it is, in fact, religious. A hadith depicts Muhammad saying to a woman, “‘O Asma’, when a woman reaches the age of menstruation, it does not suit her that she displays her parts of body except this and this,’ and he pointed to her face and hands.” (Sunan Abu Dawud 4092)
“When considered authentic by Islamic scholars, Muhammad’s words are normative for Islamic law.”
Jeanettesays
If she were in a building that caught on fire, and she couldn’t get to her abaya (which is what Saudi women wear, not hijabs), she would be locked in the building to burn alive, regardless of what DAD said to her.
Jeanettesays
I should have said “a building in Saudi Arabia.”
This actually happened there a number of years ago when fifteen school girls were locked in their burning school by the Saudi religious police because they couldn’t get to their abayas, and therefore could not hide their hideous beings before going out into the street.
I read that several parents were quite upset, but I never read that any of them left Islam.
Musalmaanmasalasays
Mustafa Kamal who was also nicknamed “Attaturk” and who is the founder of modern Turkey resolved this problem of the burkha in a very wise way. He issued the following decree:
“WITH IMMEDIATE EFFECT ALL TURKISH WOMEN ARE PRIVILEGED TO WEAR WHATEVER THEY CHOOSE, HOWEVER ALL PROSTITUTES MUST WEAR A bURKHA”
The next day, NO woman in Turkey was seen wearing a Burkha.
Problem solved.
No more “wearing it is my choice” sort of lie from oppressed and degraded muslim women.
kessler says
Vomit inducing. Even if this exchange isn’t staged, it tells nothing about the millions of women who are being oppressed and forced to wear the hijab. Women who would be beaten into submission for even suggestion the removal of the hijab in public. But muslims and their liberal allies use this to “prove” there is no oppression and intolerance to be found in Islam. Deception and stupidity goes hand in hand.
gravenimage says
So true.
JW_Reader says
Right now, YASER ABDEL SAID is on FBI’s Top Ten Most Wanted List. This Muslim men from Egypt killed his own two teenage daughters in Texas. Before killing his own daughters, he often admonished and beat them for not wearing hijabs and not living like a good muslim women. Mr Said can enlighten some Hijabophiles about the choice some muslim women have – hijab or death. The case was also profiled several times on America’s Most Wanted in old days.
gravenimage says
It was extensively covered here, as well.
Don Foss says
Confirmed. I know from 7 years experience and having Muslima friends in the workplace, very few women want to wear the hijab. I have been told that virtually none want to wear abiya (black coverings with niqab….face covering). It’s the husband, brothers and even the sons making those decisions for the women. And they’d better follow their rules.
carol says
I’m sure her dad would “support her no matter what” if she were planning to do this back in SA. And the disgusting tangle of Islam IS the result of a toxic admixture of culture with an evil excuse for a “religion”. She’s a stupid girl. She and many others should be forced to watch this Pat Condell video:
Ban the Burka:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlkxlzTZc48
Sandra Solomon BTW, plans a “Burn the Burka day” every July 1. Condell’s video convinces me this is a worthwhile pursuit.
Keith says
I wonder if her father would have given the same response if they had both been in Saudi Arabia, knowing what would have happened to her and the shame it would bring on the family if she went out not wearing her hijab.
gravenimage says
Surely not.
Don Foss says
Can’t.
Karen G says
I lived in Saudi as an expat for over 8yrs and the pressure for Saudi women or those married to a Saudi to cover is very strong. My one friend who was married to a Saudi was receiving death threats if she didn’t cover, they were threatening to kill her children. Needless to say she covered up. The religion of pease my ass.
Nico says
Islam is a religion of confusion.
Demsci says
And big contradiction in both it’s holy texts and among it’s followers.
In a religion it should be like; there is a definitive authority and if you are in this religion but deviate from it’s core tenets, then you get thrown out, by that definitive authority, who tells you to start your own group.
But in Islam it’s the other way around; nobody may leave THIS religion!
Don Foss says
Qur’an 2:106 makes Islam duelism. There are two different Allahs and two different Muhammads. Let’s just be thankful that most Muslims follow pre-hijrah Islam and conveniently ignore 2:106.
Demsci says
It is my hope that we in the West can make the confusion bigger and bigger, at least for the Muslims who can still think straight and be honest to themselves.
gravenimage says
Dear Dwmsci, this is intended to shut down criticism of Islam’s appalling treatment of women. I’m not sure I’d applaud this as a positive.
gravenimage says
Sorry–that should be Demsci.
Demsci says
No, no GI, I want no shutting down criticism of Islam’s repugnant tenets, no. No, I want optimal discussion and reaction to that and confusion among the sometimes thinking and doubting and reasonably honest Muslims because of that.
In my experience it’s the Muslims who try to censor, weasel out of discussions, shout opponents down, threathen them.
This one Muslima tried to give an answer to a criticism that irritated her. But of course most of what she provoked was rejection of her “show” or “evidence” and more critique on Islam.
Will says
izzlam is a little shop of horrors …………
Westman says
As Imams love to say, it’s out of context. Here is the correct context:
“Sweetheart that’s not my decision to make – in America.”
“That’s no man’s decision to make – in America.”
“If it’s what you feel you want to do – in America – go ahead.”
“Don’t do that in Saudi Arabia or you’ll be beaten.”
Demsci says
Very well said, so true.
That’s why I hate what the likes of this woman and Linda Sarsour are doing.
They act as if they are Americans and in that category the subgroup of Muslims of America. But we see them as Muslims first and in the American subgroup of Muslims.
And we may not even ask them, to openly declare where their highest loyalty lies; In the nation America or in the religion of Islam. WHEN THE TWO CONTRADICT (in laws, national interest etc).
Anyway it would still be a useless question because even if all Muslims were to state that Islam has their highest loyalty, over America, even when the laws, interests of both contradict,
Then still the American left and political corrects would not allow ANY “discrimination on grounds of religion”. And they would not even consider that religion is a choice, not an accident of birth.
Rick says
Let the msm women move to Saudi Arabia and see how that goes!!! The msm is the devils mouthpiece
mortimer says
Exactly. After a week in Soddy Barbaria, they’d be begging to leave.
Thomas says
A week after the Dina Ali Lasloom story – somehow I question if this was planted as a PR move by the Saudis as a good news story demonstrating the benevolence of Saudi society. Or am I too cynical?
SK says
If not, it was probably spurred by the story.
Troybeam says
“Women — in the Middle East specifically — face oppression but it is due to culture not religion,” she added.
This girl has been told lies and she needs a quick education on to what is the difference between culture and Islamic sharia law concerning women and what is demanded of them to wear and what happens when not obeyed.
Benedict says
“If it’s what you feel like you want to do, go ahead.” –
No one in the West would probably disagree with this statement when it comes to wearing or not wearing a headscarf.
But where and when does “feel like you want to do” cross the threshold into the gender bender madness we are infested with in the West, exemplified by *boys* wearing headscarves and makeup while claiming they are girls?
“Women — in the Middle East specifically — face oppression…” , but we in the West are often spurred to face and accept – if it’s not imposed on us with religious zealotry – a freedom to expression that’s often heart wrenching and transgressive. And what’s the solution to that?
overman says
To wear or not to wear the hijab: that is the question:
Whether ’tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them.
Some ppl think it’s ‘fake news’ to say women have to wear the hijab, or other veils in places like Saudi.
This was on reddit [with response]:
“Stop spreading the fake news that women are forced to wear hijabs.
Response: It’s their free choice between wearing them or getting stoned to death.”
m says
This is YOUR choice!
Not the choice of woman all over the globe!
KEEP YOUR CHOICE, YOUR CHOICE!
Do not treatht other woman who do not want to be part of your de- hu milliation towards woman .
Your life is yours.
Our life is ours.
AND, We do not want to be part of Islam, wich is our human right!!
Paladin says
What is lost in all this is that this young muslima has the FREEDOM to choose to wear hijab or not only in America. Notice that she isn’t able to make that choice whilst living in Saudi Arabia. Also, this might be an example of taqqiya. I wouldn’t be shocked if “Baba” turns out to be someone other than dear old dad…
overman says
Yeah, he doesn’t sound like your typical muslim daddy.
gravenimage says
Also quite possible.
Christian Beltram says
The father in this case is lying in order to portray Islam in a positive light. If he had his way, not only would all women and girls be required to wear the hijab regardless of their religion, but all women would be banned from driving cars and all of the laws in the Sharia that oppress and degrade women and girls would be imposed on non-Muslim societies with a vengeance!
gravenimage says
Saudi dad tells daughter hijab is her choice, Western media thrilled, Saudi women still face arrest for taking off hijab
………………….
Well, nice to know dad probably wouldn’t beat or kill her if she ever decides to take off her Hijab.
That does not much help the other millions of women who *do* face such violence, though, both from their families and from Muslim authorities.
Assuming, of course, that the whole thing wasn’t just a stunt to shut down the “Islamophobe” who dared bring up the issue in the first place.
Will says
Every woman in Saudi Arabia, regardless of age, has a legal male guardian, often a father or brother or son. Guardians have the power to make a range of critical decisions on a woman’s behalf. Women need to get their permission to travel abroad, marry and sometimes to work or access health care.
The guardianship system is “the most significant impediment to realizing women’s rights in the country,” Human Rights Watch said in a report released last year .
This was about the choice of de-veiling outside of Saudi Arabia……
Dennis says
It is very difficult to go against tradition. This girl like many religious people is conditioned to cover her head. So are Amish, Mennonites,orthodox Jewesses. It is not really a choice is it. I met a Kuwaiti women attending school in Idaho. Who was told that she would lose her scholarship if she didn’t cover up!
.
carol says
Dennis…it’s still not comparable. Years ago if you entered a church (especially Catholic) you were expected to wear a hat or headscarf mainly as a respectful, dressed-up formality. People would have resented non-conformity but their “non-bogus” religions would not have spurred them on to mentally or physically abuse such women.
Also, Mr. Spencer seems to have corrected the widespread assumption that covering up is not “required”. As he has put it:
“No one in Saudi Arabia piped up at the time to remind authorities that the forced hijab was “cultural” and not “religious.
And it is, in fact, religious. A hadith depicts Muhammad saying to a woman, “‘O Asma’, when a woman reaches the age of menstruation, it does not suit her that she displays her parts of body except this and this,’ and he pointed to her face and hands.” (Sunan Abu Dawud 4092)
“When considered authentic by Islamic scholars, Muhammad’s words are normative for Islamic law.”
Jeanette says
If she were in a building that caught on fire, and she couldn’t get to her abaya (which is what Saudi women wear, not hijabs), she would be locked in the building to burn alive, regardless of what DAD said to her.
Jeanette says
I should have said “a building in Saudi Arabia.”
This actually happened there a number of years ago when fifteen school girls were locked in their burning school by the Saudi religious police because they couldn’t get to their abayas, and therefore could not hide their hideous beings before going out into the street.
I read that several parents were quite upset, but I never read that any of them left Islam.
Musalmaanmasala says
Mustafa Kamal who was also nicknamed “Attaturk” and who is the founder of modern Turkey resolved this problem of the burkha in a very wise way. He issued the following decree:
“WITH IMMEDIATE EFFECT ALL TURKISH WOMEN ARE PRIVILEGED TO WEAR WHATEVER THEY CHOOSE, HOWEVER ALL PROSTITUTES MUST WEAR A bURKHA”
The next day, NO woman in Turkey was seen wearing a Burkha.
Problem solved.
No more “wearing it is my choice” sort of lie from oppressed and degraded muslim women.