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Turkey: Muslim cleric says giving Erdogan dictatorial powers is Islamic obligation, “no” voters are foes of Islam

Apr 15, 2017 1:02 pm By Robert Spencer

You’d almost think that Hayrettin Karaman, leading theologian and issuer of fatwas, thought that democracy and Islam were incompatible, but that would be “Islamophobic.”

“Erdoğan cleric says voting ‘yes’ in referendum is Islamic obligation,” Turkish Minute, April 13, 2017 (thanks to The Religion of Peace):

Hayrettin Karaman, a leading theologian and issuer of fatwas, or religious edicts, for ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) circles and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, wrote in a column on Thursday that casting a “yes” vote in a referendum on April 16 is a fard, the Islamic term for a religious obligation.

Turkey will vote on a constitutional reform package in the referendum which will introduce an executive presidency if approved. The reforms will greatly increase Erdoğan’s powers while weakening Parliament.

“If we say, ‘yes,’ the process which began under Erdoğan’s leadership in 2002 will continue. If a ‘no’ vote is cast, there will be a gradual return to the old, which is bad. … Taking a step that will bring us closer to our goal by saying, ‘yes’ falls within the principle of ‘every action which completes a fard and makes someone get closer to it is a fard’,” wrote Karaman….

Karaman had also said that the “no” voters in the April 16 referendum are opponents of Islam.

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Comments

  1. Mockingjay says

    Apr 15, 2017 at 1:21 pm

    – “Karaman had also said that the “no” voters in the April 16 referendum are opponents of Islam.”

    …but if you’d tell any LEFTIST that Erdogan’s an ISLAMIST, they would dispute this simple fact with all their might.

    – Yes they would. And they do.

    – See – Erdogan is proving to be quite a dilemma for leftists.

    – All across Europe, pretty much EVERY leftist political party is VERY eager in condemning Erdogan and everything he is doing to deconstruct the Turkish secular democracy.

    – But admitting that this is all happening in the name of ISLAM they can of course NOT do, since islam is beyond criticism. Islam can’t be Erdogan’s motivation, since islam can never be bad. See?

    – So there must be some other reason for Erdogan’s behaviour. It just can’t be islam or the leftists can’t criticize Erdogan anymore.

    It’s quite confusing to be a leftist, isn’t it?

    • mortimer says

      Apr 15, 2017 at 2:49 pm

      The regressively fascist European left is a cabal of angry Trotskyites whose only desire is a SADISTIC one … that of torturing and killing all who disagree with them.

      They are now seeing that Islam is NOT on the side of the European left. Islam as represented by Erdogan is aiming at the resurrection of the CALIPHATE in Turkey and nothing less.

      The caliphate is a ONE-PARTY STATE and that POLITICAL PARTY will NOT be a MARXIST one.

      Erdogan is making it clearer and clearer that he is headed towards a one-party Islamic, Turkish-racist dictatorship in Turkey.

      • gravenimage says

        Apr 15, 2017 at 4:29 pm

        I don’t think many Westerners realize this–at least Americans don’t. Even though Erdogan has been in power since 2002–a very undemocratic fifteen years now–many of the people I’ve spoken to are still convinced that Turkey is entirely ‘modern’ and democratic.

        • Terry says

          Apr 15, 2017 at 8:14 pm

          Graven,

          Abbas, of whom Hussein Obama spoke glowingly of, and who the pope called a man of piece, is in something like the 11th or so year of his 4 year term.’

          His opponents seem to have a habit of dying, disappearing or going to prison. (Not that they are any better).( my views).

          So, this is probably an Islamic thing-part of their culture.

        • Anne Smith says

          Apr 16, 2017 at 11:15 am

          It does seem to take a very long time for awareness of the political nature of countries and parties to get through to the man in the street. Possibly because they are too preoccupied with trying to earn a living, pay their taxes and generally keep their heads above water.

        • gravenimage says

          Apr 16, 2017 at 5:26 pm

          True, Terry–Mamoud Abbas is another undemocratic Muslim thug–and your are right, this is generally unacknowledged, at least in the West.

      • epistemology says

        Apr 16, 2017 at 8:17 am

        It’s plain to see and I hope that lots of people will wake up and realize that Erdogaga is the same as Hitler. After being democratically elected as chancellor of the empire the first thing Hitler did he made an enabling act giving him unlimited power. What he used that power for is known to the whole world, Islam and democracy are incompatible same as Nazism and democracy.

        • roger woodhouse says

          Apr 16, 2017 at 8:38 am

          The ‘left’are caught in a cleft stick here in Britain.They despise our established religion (Christianity)for that reason …. its established.They want to destroy our very culture and inheritance and see Islam as an ally in that cause.The vast majority of former labour voters see the truth though and are voting with their feet for other parties.

    • Leon Jensen says

      Apr 17, 2017 at 8:11 pm

      Hmmm. I wonder if the election would have turned out differently if only Hillary had said, “A vote for Trump is a vote against Mom and Apple Pie!”

  2. no_one says

    Apr 15, 2017 at 2:07 pm

    In a democratic society it is normal to have opponents of any religion, including islam (which is not quite a religion). Muzzies are such dark and gloomy bigots. Such contrast from Christians who these days are happy in expectation of the Resurrection. And some people pronounce “fard” as “fart”.

    • mortimer says

      Apr 15, 2017 at 2:54 pm

      no-one refers to ‘fard’ an Arabic word meaning ‘duty’. Most Muslims will understand that word as referring to the DUTY of conducting JIHAD that is incumbent on all Muslims.

      Many Muslims feel this duty during Christian holidays such as Christmas and Easter when jihadists tend to attack churches and Christians.

      Christian clergy need to take measures to protect their congregations from attack during these holy seasons especially. Armed undercover agents or congregants with permits should sit near the entrances to intercept would-be jihadists before they can do harm.

      • no_one says

        Apr 15, 2017 at 7:51 pm

        I am serious. When I attempt to pronounce “fard” it sounds like “fart”.

  3. IQ al Rassooli says

    Apr 15, 2017 at 4:06 pm

    All the bombs in the world are useless against Muslim terrorists because millions of them are living among us in our democracies while undermining and terrorizing us in our own nations

    Muhammad declared TOTAL WAR against all non Muslim humanity 1400 years ago. His current followers are Terrorizing Plundering Conquering Raping Slaughtering at will 80% of non Muslim humanity called KUFFAR/ Infidels be they Christians Buddhists Hindus Jews and all others

    Contrary to what most of the criminally negligent Media Academia Politicians and Clergy tell the world this NOT a CIVILIZATION WAR but a war of BELIEFS (Theological) and hence can only be defeated on the battlefield of KNOWLEDGE!

    The whole of Islamic theology stands or falls based entirely on a single IDEA: That Allah the god of Muslims is the SAME as the God of the Bible.

    Everything to do with Islam, Muslims, Muhammad, Sharia, Quran and Sunna are OBLITERATED in less than TEN minutes by simply PROVING beyond a shadow or even a reasonable doubt that no god called Allah or angel called called Jibril ever revealed ANYTHING to Muhammad who concocted the whole of his Quran while PRETENDING it is from Allah.

    Muhammad is Allah. PERIOD!

    All other explanations, theories, platitudes and explanations are IRRELEVANT and unnecessary

    Since Allah is NOT the God of the Bible, Islam is not a RELIGION. Islam is a CULT; the Cult of Muhammad

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTuFA1fQ-yg&feature=youtu.be&a

    Any Muslim challengers to prove me wrong?

    IQ al Rassooli
    Kafir & Proud!

    • Barry says

      Apr 15, 2017 at 7:34 pm

      IQ, I agree with you on everything – including Muhammad conjuring up allah from the Quarysh rock-god allah…..but you leave out perhaps the most critical point in all of this….and it’s simply this….what is the real, true origins of evil…If there really is a God (and I do believe there is), and if that God is the God of the Bible (and I do believe it is)…..then the one true God makes it very clear in His holy word, the Bible, that there is an origin of all evil….That evil is the fallen archangel Lucifer, who is called satan….so Muhammad is indeed a messenger….just not of God, but of God’s nemesis, satan…Muhammad was in partnership with satan, who is the father of all lies….the author of death….satan’s mission is to destroy mankind….Christ’s mission was and IS to establish and build His Body….the Body of Christ – which is the Church…so that when His church is mature enough, He will come to ‘wed’ His bride, the church…..and Christ and His bride the Church will be a heavenly, blissful, eternal marriage, the comingling of deep spiritual intimacy between God and man…..that is the truth of Christ.

  4. gravenimage says

    Apr 15, 2017 at 4:37 pm

    Turkey: Muslim cleric says giving Erdogan dictatorial powers is Islamic obligation, “no” voters are foes of Islam
    ……………………..

    Wasn’t it Erdogan himself who said, “democracy is merely a train that we ride until we reach our goal”–that goal being Islam? No clearer proof of that than here.

    I fervently hope that there is enough residual respect for democracy in Turkey that they will vote no–but I fear that Islam will win out. I would love to hear the views of some secular Turks here.

    • EmHotep says

      Apr 15, 2017 at 6:15 pm

      Hi Graven, same cleric issued a fatwa on child marriages and said it is okay to take a 6 years old girl as a wife. He is the chief adviser of erdogan…

      • gravenimage says

        Apr 15, 2017 at 6:24 pm

        Thanks for the reply, EmHotep–no surprise about this Fatwa, since the pedophile “Prophet” married a six-year-old child. I am not surprised to see this same pious thug here trying to set up Erdogan as Caliph.

        My main question was about this vote–what do you think are the chances that Turks will vote against making Erdogan dictator?

      • Terry says

        Apr 15, 2017 at 8:20 pm

        I think 6 is too young. prefer them about 9 (sarc-I am NOT a pedophile)

      • Benedict says

        Apr 16, 2017 at 6:58 am

        Apropos child marriage:
        Prof. Jonathan Brown Georgetown University is in full accordance with this fatwa:
        “You can’t say from a sharia perspective that what the prophet did was wrong because the prophet can’t sin.” – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsYk-tRp9jk (11:15)
        The professor also in the same clip condones Muhammad’s incestuous relation with his daughter-in-law.
        That a Muslim cleric in Turkey promotes child marriages is perhaps not surprising, but a professor at a university in the US should be publicly and morally condemned – if not sentenced in court (?) – for espousing such views.

        • gravenimage says

          Apr 16, 2017 at 5:35 pm

          This is the Muslim mindset–anything the malignant “Prophet” did is not sinful, because it was done by the “Prophet”…

    • Anne Smith says

      Apr 16, 2017 at 11:23 am

      The fundamentalist Muslims i.e. the poor and peasantry in Turkey have by now sufficiently outbred the educated and civilised Turks. It seems it is just a battle of numbers and the ultimate goal of the Islamists is to outbreed the others. They appear to have achieved this in Turkey. Erdogan is worshipped by the poor and uneducated followers of Islam, rather in the manner of the middle ages in Europe where the Roman Catholic Church dictated who would be leader.

      Thank God for Henry VIII who broke free from this religious dictatorship and enslavery.

      • EmHotep says

        Apr 16, 2017 at 5:31 pm

        This is an excellent comment (please spread it), I’ve always wanted to explain the same thing, because I really wanted to warn civilized people about the danger of islam. Now we’ve lost our fight here in Turkey, I hope you will win yours.

        All the best.

        Turkish Seculars.

        • gravenimage says

          Apr 16, 2017 at 5:39 pm

          Right now from what I have heard the vote is close. Hang in there, EmHotep.

  5. EmHotep says

    Apr 15, 2017 at 6:11 pm

    This referendum is a war between the civilized secular people vs erdogan’s islamic savages. We did not have equal chance to campaign for NO because erdogan used every force against us including arrests by his islamic police force. However, despite all the negative actions against us the votes are neck to neck. I beleive NO will win tomorrow if not forget about the Republic of Turkey.

    From the WSJ;

    The president has two apparent objectives. First, Mr. Erdogan seeks to reverse Kemal Atatürk’s westernizing reforms to reinstitute the Ottoman Empire’s Islamic ways. Second, he wants to elevate himself to the grand, ancient Islamic position of caliph, an especially vivid prospect since Islamic State resurrected this long-moribund position in 2014.

    Those two ambitions could meld together exactly 100 years after Atatürk abolished the caliphate, either on March 10, 2021 (by the Islamic calendar), or March 4, 2024 (by the Christian calendar). Either of these dates offers a perfect occasion for Mr. Erdogan to undo the handiwork of the secular Atatürk and declare himself caliph of all Muslims.

    No one inside Turkey can effectively resist Mr. Erdogan’s enormous ambitions. This leaves him free to continue in his erratic ways, stirring trouble at home and abroad. That is, unless he one day trips, likely over an external crisis. Meantime, Turks and millions of others will pay an increasing price for his vainglorious rule.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-other-islamic-state-erdogans-vision-for-turkey-1492124010

    • gravenimage says

      Apr 15, 2017 at 6:31 pm

      I hope you are right about the vote, EmHotep.

      • EmHotep says

        Apr 15, 2017 at 7:16 pm

        Probably NO will win, but there is a confirmed rumor that Erdogan and his ISIS teams will not accept the result and start murdering the opposition people. Everybody is afraid, we may even need UN intervention if they start hunting us.

        Meanwhile happy Easter to all of you, it is started here 🙂

        • TL says

          Apr 15, 2017 at 7:41 pm

          As I see it, “Yes” is a vote to restore the Ottoman Empire, as we call it in English. If Erdogan wins, expect a flurry of other changes to follow. Of course there will be legal and administrative reforms to consolidate power in the executive’s hands, and soon all of you will be expected to read and write Turkish in the Arabic script again.

        • Terry says

          Apr 16, 2017 at 5:40 pm

          At about noon, eastern time (in the US) on the radio, ABC said the voting was close, and with about 57% of the votes in, YES had a slight lead (I think it was 52-48 or 53-47–something like that). Have not heard anything since.

        • gravenimage says

          Apr 16, 2017 at 5:43 pm

          Happy Easter to you and yours, EmHotep!

  6. no_one says

    Apr 15, 2017 at 7:19 pm

    —- Off topic, Breaking news —-

    As per Western European time

    Christ is Risen!
    Hristos Voskrese!
    Hristos Anesti!

    • gravenimage says

      Apr 15, 2017 at 8:09 pm

      Happy Easter!

      • no_one says

        Apr 15, 2017 at 8:37 pm

        Thank you!

  7. Eigil says

    Apr 15, 2017 at 7:51 pm

    I don’t get how this could be sane. Who are they to declare any rights by decree of Allah for a mere human(If such a selfish deity could exist). Are they a last living prophet even after Mohammad? Or are they just brainwashed people living by the rules of an archaic collection of texts written by some illiterate warmongers in the middle east to further their own goals.

  8. Pal says

    Apr 15, 2017 at 8:32 pm

    Religion & state in Turkey is already one and same thing.
    Dun-u-devlet, from Persian, and as reiterated by Imam Gazali (1058-1111).
    State of Islam = IS.
    Offoman caliphate.
    Arab caliphates.
    The Muhammad project = Islam.
    Turkish major Erdogan supporter and chief editor of a popular pro-government newspaper:
    “After Erdogan wins 16 April referendum, Turkey must stop its war against IS and arm it with nuclear weapons” !
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/785160/Turkey-president-Erdogan-urged-to-stop-fighting-ISIS-build-nuclear-weapons-Yeni-Safak

    • Pal says

      Apr 15, 2017 at 8:33 pm

      “Din”

  9. Pal says

    Apr 15, 2017 at 8:41 pm

    It seems “Yes” will win the Turkish referendum (after so many fatwas…), with more than 51%.
    Most recent polls say so.
    Most recent comments, too.
    Regretfully (“Maalesef”, Tur.)
    May I be wrong.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_constitutional_referendum,_2017#Opinion_polls
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-referendum-poll-idUSKBN17F0V3

    • gravenimage says

      Apr 16, 2017 at 5:48 pm

      Last I heard the vote is very close.

  10. 30 cash Mir cheated Jesus says

    Apr 15, 2017 at 10:44 pm

    Muslim Alla is Archimedes. And Isa is a Byzantine king. Islam is a trap to measure people. Alexanders failed campaign against China. This is wrong Muslims worshiping evil spirit.

  11. Anne says

    Apr 16, 2017 at 9:52 am

    Erdogan is quickly changing Turkey into a theocracy. Turks who vote yes are fools.

    • IQ al Rassooli says

      Apr 16, 2017 at 9:57 am

      Anne

      Turks who vote YES are not fools. They are the usual utterly STUPID Muslims

      Irrespective of Race Colour Nationality Culture Tradition or Gender every Muslim and every CONVERT to Islam is Sharia compliant hence every Muslim exhibits the following Characteristics~

      Obscene levels of Hatemongering Warmongering Racism & Intolerance

      compounded with Depraved and unconscionable degrees of Mendacity Duplicity Hypocrisy Disloyalty Vileness Mercilessness & Ungodliness

      In a nutshell Muslims represent the lowest logical, moral, spiritual and judicial levels in humanity

      IQ al Rassooli
      Kafir & Proud!

    • IQ al Rassooli says

      Apr 16, 2017 at 9:59 am

      Irrespective of Race Colour Nationality Culture Tradition or Gender every Muslim and every CONVERT to Islam is Sharia compliant hence every Muslim exhibits the following Characteristics~

      Obscene levels of Hatemongering Warmongering Racism & Intolerance

      compounded with Depraved and unconscionable degrees of Mendacity Duplicity Hypocrisy Disloyalty Vileness Mercilessness & Ungodliness

      In a nutshell Muslims represent the lowest logical, moral, spiritual and judicial levels in humanity

      IQ al Rassooli
      Kafir & Proud!

  12. Westman says

    Apr 16, 2017 at 10:01 am

    “Taking a step that will bring us closer to our goal ” – A Caliphate.

    If successful at creating a “Caliphate”, won’t that likely cause war within Egypt from ISIS and other factions that will declare it to be a counterfeit?

    • Terry says

      Apr 16, 2017 at 5:44 pm

      If Turkey and Egypt go to war– and leave Israel out- but take Hamas and the Palestinians in ( either side) and both have massive casualties- might help (a) the world and (b) both countries- by getting rid of excess population that they (seemingly) cannot feed,educate and provide jobs for.

    • gravenimage says

      Apr 16, 2017 at 6:04 pm

      Yes–Turkey and ISIS would likely go to war if Turkey formally declares itself a Caliphate, as well. But Muslims fighting each other is never surprising.

  13. Leon Jensen says

    Apr 16, 2017 at 10:08 am

    Was this the same Imam who only a year ago finally allowed the faithful to use toilet paper?

  14. EmHotep says

    Apr 16, 2017 at 11:47 am

    Braking NEWS;

    Erdogan teams has cut the online information flow because NO votes were in front. High Election Council with the orders from erdogan are changing votes from No to yes. This is a coup by erdogan’s organisations. We really need a help otherwise the animals will commit a genocide !!!!!

    • gravenimage says

      Apr 16, 2017 at 6:09 pm

      Very concerning.

  15. EmHotep says

    Apr 16, 2017 at 11:48 am

    S.O.S

    • TL says

      Apr 16, 2017 at 5:16 pm

      Pssst…

      Hercules and the Wagoner
      http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/aesop/aes013.htm

      Hercules is Heracles.

      • EmHotep says

        Apr 16, 2017 at 5:25 pm

        Thank you.

    • TL says

      Apr 16, 2017 at 5:19 pm

      God helps those who help themselves
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helps_those_who_help_themselves

      • EmHotep says

        Apr 16, 2017 at 5:25 pm

        Thank you.

  16. bleeps says

    Apr 16, 2017 at 4:57 pm

    OBSERVE HOW THESE PEOPLE CONFISCATE SO EASILY THE TERM DEMOCRACY INTO THEIR ISLAMIC CULTURE AS IF IT WAS INVENTED BY THEM! I DESPISE SUCH ATTEMPS OF REVENDICATING THE DEMOCRACY AND ITS TERMS AS THEIR OWN JUST SO THEY CAN SAY IN A NEAR FUTURE THAT THEY INVENTED DEMOCRACY! THIS IS A SICKNESS THAT TAKES THE MINDS OF PEOPLE AND BRAINWASHES THEM TO BELIEVE WHAT IS TOLD TO THEM TO THE SOLE CRUEL ISLAMIC DOGMA AND ITS POLITICAL END!

  17. Eric Jones says

    Apr 16, 2017 at 8:11 pm

    To those who live in Turkey my questionsare ; will academia and the intelligensia vote no against Erdogan’s power grab? Or has the academia and intelligencia been islamicised as well? Could Erdogan and Gulan have poisioned their minds as well? Will Erdogan steal this election?

    Eric

    • EmHotep says

      Apr 16, 2017 at 8:44 pm

      Hİ Eric there are 183 universities in Turkey and only maybe 8 of them are real universities (internationally recognized). The remaining ones has been opened by either Erdogan or Fethullah Gulen. These universities usually places to create militant academicians and the level of education is not better than a high school. Another problem is that the Rectors of all the universities assigned by Erdogan so they have to obey him. In sharia you need submissive followers and not scientists or enlighten people, so they care about the quantity and not the quality.

      Erdogan has already stolen the election, 51 % yes and 49 % no. He has officially changed 1.5 million NO votes to yes with the help of High Election Council, which of course reports to erdogan.

      As seculars we’ve worked very hard for the referendum, but against radical muslims you can not win with lawful opposition. Our only hope is that the cheating was so obvious therefore US and EU may not recognize the results, this is if they care about the democracy and secularism in Turkey.

      • Eric Jones says

        Apr 17, 2017 at 5:44 pm

        Thank you EmHotep.

        Eric

      • gravenimage says

        Apr 17, 2017 at 6:16 pm

        Thanks for the additional information.

  18. Pal says

    Apr 17, 2017 at 5:15 am

    “The Other Islamic State – Turkey”: Daniel Pipes:
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-other-islamic-state-erdogans-vision-for-turkey-1492124010
    http://www.danielpipes.org/17494/turkey-vainglorious-referendum
    No matter how big is the secular mind in Turkey – God (not Allah) Bless! – in Turkey, there is a lasting and predominant mentality of itsel as being a successor to the Caliphate and probably a start of new one. Not 90% or 60%, but prevailing over the ones of the contrary opinion. Plus, today, such prevailing Muslims feel jealous that the continuation of the last Caliphate, the Ottoman with its 1924 end, dares to “originate” not from it, but from a different team of Muslims, i.e. the Islamic State ones.
    And not only that, of course.
    I never doubted the “Yes” vote will win. Put into that the repressive measures to smash the 2013 protest, the post July-“coup”-nationwide 2016 witch hunt and the constant bickerings with Europe and America that only stimulate Turkish faithful Muslims to unite and support their identity-close Erdogan team.
    “Know Your Enemy” – Sun Tzu, 5th Century B.C.
    New York Times today says the margin of victory has been quite slim. Not correct. Margin is about 2%. “Slim” would mean if it is 0.2%-05%-1%. Two 2% are more than enough for the Erdo Caliph The Ist to keep on with his smashing of freedom, democracy and All Normality of Turkey.
    God Forbid!

  19. Andrew Clarke says

    Apr 17, 2017 at 5:46 am

    It looks to me as if Islamism is the same sort of threat today that Nazism was in the 1930s.

    • Pal says

      Apr 17, 2017 at 8:03 am

      Andrew Clarke – Correct.
      And like Communism, 1910s-1990s.
      And all totalitarianisms.

      • EmHotep says

        Apr 17, 2017 at 8:30 am

        The difference is there are 2 billion muslims in the world and believe that they get the orders from allah … The problem is huge.

    • gravenimage says

      Apr 17, 2017 at 6:19 pm

      Very true, Andrew.

  20. EmHotep says

    Apr 17, 2017 at 4:27 pm

    Hi Ktulu,

    The referendum of Turkey was a theater played by erdogan and his people, we lost it illegally. All the foreign observers say that it was not a normal referendum but rather a staged one.. It is not possible to win against sharia people…

    I like the below given Soliloquy and hope that it will reach us quickly;

    — To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
    Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
    To the last syllable of recorded time;
    And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
    The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
    Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player
    That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
    And then is heard no more. It is a tale
    Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury
    Signifying nothing.

    — Macbeth (Act 5, Scene 5, lines 17-28)

    • gravenimage says

      Apr 17, 2017 at 6:24 pm

      EmHotep, remember that MacBeth is the murderous *villain* of the piece. MacDuff is the hero who defeats the villain and restores what is good.

      • EmHotep says

        Apr 17, 2017 at 6:43 pm

        Thank you Gravenimage, it has been soo long I forget the characters, but what I like here is the definition of the life part. We are overwhelmed with the suppression and injustice, sometimes my heart wants a quiet end and no more sufferings, sound and fury.

        With Love.

        • gravenimage says

          Apr 17, 2017 at 7:33 pm

          Don’t give up, EmHotep. That is what Islam does–crushes the hopes of good people.

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