The arrests were likely part of a growing trend of intolerance toward the queer community in the world’s largest Muslim-majority nation.
Gays are brutalized and scorned in Indonesia for having “disease of the body and soul.” This is a country that was once deemed “moderate,” but is now enforcing strict Sharia adherence, and Sharia calls for the death of gays.
“Two gay men were publicly caned this week as crowds shouted to ‘hit them harder’….The couple, in their 20s, were sentenced to 85 lashes each by a Sharia court in Aceh province after being filmed by local vigilantes.”
“Indonesian police arrest more than 140 men at alleged gay sauna party”, by Kate Lamb, The Guardian, May 22, 2017:
Indonesian police have arrested more than 100 men in a weekend raid on a gay sauna in the capital Jakarta, a day before two men are to be publicly flogged for having same sex relations.
Authorities raided what they said was a sex party promoted as ‘The Wild One,’ held at a sauna and gym venue in Jakarta’s north on Sunday evening.
Police spokesperson Agus Yuwono confirmed that 141 men, including the owner and several performers, had been detained for questioning and could be charged under Indonesia’s pornography law.
Homosexuality is not illegal in Indonesia, but over the past 18 months the LGBT community has been subject to an unprecedented wave of discrimination and attacks, sparked by several controversial comments from conservative government ministers.
Last month police targeted a gathering of gay men in a hotel in Surabaya, following a tip-off from neighbours. Fourteen men were arrested and forced to undergo HIV tests.
Two men were also arrested in Banda Aceh in late March and convicted of sodomy under the province’s sharia law. The men were sentenced to 85 lashes with the cane, which will be meted out publicly in the provincial capital on Tuesday.
This will be the first time Aceh’s sharia courts have sentenced people to flogging for homosexual acts.
Yulita Rustinawati from the LGBT activist group Arus Pelangi said that while all the details of Sunday’s raid were not year clear, the arrests were likely part of a growing trend of intolerance toward the queer community in the world’s largest Muslim-majority nation.
“It’s been increasing for two years now,” Rustinawati said of the recent crackdowns……
Mac-101 says
I wonder if they arrested Obama’s gay/tranny house servant who raised him that Obama described in one of his books?
Dave says
LOL ! And Left/Liberal ignorant dumb gays support muslim immigration and hate trump for trying to stop jihadi attacks.
utis says
Islam : the modern cuckoo’s egg. You care for it, you hatch it, you feed it, and it kills your offspring. And you keep looking after it.
Paulina says
So TRUE
gravenimage says
Spot on, Utis.
FYI says
It is also like a parasitic Ichneumon Wasp…..
“After hatching,the ichneumonid larva eats its host alive”
It feeds off the host,producing nothing in return.
miriamrove says
Being gay is Unislamic yet raping and sodomizing Aisha at age 9 is perfectly ok. m
gravenimage says
Muslims go after little boys, as well.
Homosexual pedophilia and rape are perfectly Islamic; it is just consensual relationships between adults that is condemned and violently persecuted.
God, I hate Islam.
Mike T says
Jesus fucking Christ… that’s all I’ve got to say…
TJ says
It was prophesied in the old testament that the Messiah’s name would be used as a swear word so you help identify the Messiah and fulfill scripture when you say that. That’s all I got to say.
gravenimage says
I find Muslim savagery a *lot* more disturbing than this from Mike, TJ.
Stan Lee says
Indonesia sentences such “offenders” to public “caning,” which is brutal, but not as brutal as Arab or Iranian punitive measures….they just take the elevator to “rooftop” and push the poor guy off into space for a body-breaking-killing landing.
Indonesia uses an extra-hard length of bamboo wielded by an executioner, while the “law offender” is in a strung up position. It is a toss-up which is worse, a whip or bamboo, they’re both bad,
Another innovation for Islam! :(:(
gravenimage says
Stan, Indonesia’s Aceh province now has *stoning* on the books.
TJ says
I think western leaders should notice gays are being killed in places where the apostle Paul was thrown out first. Paul rejected homosexuality, but he was disciplined in his hatred of it. He put the punishment of homosexuals up to God in the next world. And he agreed to preach to them the same as anyone else when they quit homosexuality. The loudest ovation I ever heard in church is when a man got up on stage and said he had quit homosexuality and turned to Jesus. This shows how popular the words of Paul are in many churches. The reason followers of Paul do not kill gays is because of the discipline he showed in the new testament. If western leaders want to protect gays from slaughter, they should set up followers of Paul to be the foe of homosexuals, not muslims.
Walter Sieruk says
This in a very sad way is a reminder of the “joke” that is not mean to be “funny” but to make a point. Therefore here it is.
There is something to the “joke” about the different kinds of negative kind of behavior of a Fundamentalist Baptist Christian male and the kind of behavior of a Fundamentalist Salafist Muslim male when they encounter, at different times, a homosexual man. For when a Fundamentalist Baptist Christian man meets a “gay” man, that type of Christian will say many very ignorant things to him and as a result of those ignorant things said that “gay” man will end up with a headache. In contrast, when a Fundamentalist Salafist Muslim man encounters a homosexual man, that type of Muslim will cut that “gay” man’s head off.
pnr says
There is no such thing as a gay man. This is just mohaMadans being Mohamadans (normative izlam). All non-Moslems be careful during rumdunn.
gravenimage says
Are you claiming that homosexuals do not exist? Muslims have made this claim, as well.
JG says
Having 4 wives is not immoral but loving somebody of the same gender is worthy of public beatings and ongoing humiliation.
gravenimage says
Remember, raping little girls and sex slaves is just fine in Islam, as well.
ibrahim itace muhammed says
No savage sex behavior in muslim lands.such rascality and bellow animal way of life shall be confined to filthy christians (the people of nudity and bad smells). sharia shall prevail.only opposite sexs should marry,enjoy natural sex and reproduce.Anus is not a natural passage for sex.it is meant for shit only.christians are truly idiots.
.
TJ says
If you read my comment above you would see what a biblical figure said about homosexuality.
And you would see that a typical anti-abortion church responds exactly like the world famous Paul did when homosexuals change. You are full of propaganda. Muslims lead the world by far in chopping the clitoris. The corrupt practice of cutting the clitoris and doing orgasm damage to a lady predated islam. So, a lot of you guys are as a dog that eats the crap of a cat. This is what happened to many in your group when you threw out the words of Jesus. You are good at showing how stupid it is to walk away from Him.
gravenimage says
The appalling ibrahim itace muhammed wrote:
No savage sex behavior in muslim lands.
………………………..
ibrahim itace muhammed considers a gay sauna “savage”, but raping pre-pubescent children, Infidels in Jihad, and sex slaves is “chaste”.
He reveals the *true* savagery of Islam.
More:
such (sic) rascality and bellow (sic) animal way of life shall be confined to filthy christians (sic) (the people of nudity and bad smells).
………………………..
Again, muhammed is confusing proper hygiene with Islamic “ritual purity”. A Muslim can have a left hand smeared in feces and still be “clean”.
And he considers anything short of a Burqa to be “nudity”.
More:
sharia shall prevail.
………………………..
This is ibrahim itace muhammed’s entire purpose here–the imposition of brutal Shari’ah law.
More:
only (sic) opposite sexs (sic) should marry,enjoy (sic) natural sex and reproduce.Anus (sic) is not a natural passage for sex.it (sic) is meant for shit only.christians (sic) are truly idiots.
.
………………………..
“Enjoy natural sex”? How can a woman who has suffered FGM “enjoy” sex? How can an infibulated woman who has to *be cut open* before sex “enjoy it”?
Silly me, though–of course muhammed was referring to Muslim men only.
ibrahim itace muhammed says
Gravenimage,you are still held by holy ghost( the crook satan) and as such you cannot see the wisdom behind sharia punishments,which are just deterrent mechanisms for crime prevention to creat an ideal society.you are wrong to say islam is more concern with guaranteing sex enjoyment to men only.First ,Allah said
we have casted mawadda( love and affection) between hearts of men and women so that they will will be merciful to each other.In another verse in suratu nisaa( women) Allah says man and woman( husban and wife) should relate to each other in love and kindness.in the light of these verses the holy prophet muhammad said woman possess 99℅ degree of the total enjoyments during sex activities ;and as such man ( husband)shall not terminate sex activity until he is sure that the woman sex partner( the wife) is fully satisfied by dropping that most enjoyable sex fluid orgasm.the muslim scholars wrote many works on how to enjoy natural sex for men and women.if you can read Arabic ,read books like Qurratul aayun( pleasing to sights) and Raudatul aatir( the garden of enjoyment).so,the hadith ,which allows that customary Arab practice of genital mutilation,if it is to reduce sex enjoyment to women,will tantamount to contadicting the Quranic verses guaranteeing maximum enjoyment for women.It is based on this reason that modern muslim jurists opined that fgm shall not be allowed and i agree with this opinion.Note: where hadith directlty contradicts the spirit of Quranic teaching it shall be considered as inauthentic and as such unreliable.so,gravenimave ,if you want have maximum sexual enjoyment and love ,learn it from islam,even though you unreasonably hate it. Note: indiscriminate sex outside marriage as it is common among mithraist christians associating with satan( holy ghost) is not acceptable enjoyment under sharia.Note,also, that even where having sex with captive slave is allowed,the sex must be consensual that the slave must love to have sex with the master; otherwise he must allow her to marry another slave she loves or a free man.if he forces her,she can take her case to sharia court to get her wish or compel the oppressing master to sell out the female slave in the same way sharia court can compel the oppressing master to sell out male slave or free him altogether.
billybob says
Ibrahim – you seem to have your own private version of Islam. You are very innovative in your interpretation, in spite of the fact that such innovation is haram. Ibrahim, while we are not scholars of Islam here in the comment section, we have all read endless quotes from your most respected authorities and can see broad contradictions between them and your personal understanding.
You yourself must have encountered scholars you disagree with. That has to be. One can research just about any topic on Islam on the internet these days, and find endless numbers of Imams all agreeing on some interpretation that markedly differs from your views.
It must be very hard for you as you follow people like Robert Spencer and David Wood, and read comments from the peanut gallery, all with interpretations different than your understanding, but that is to be expected with these I just mentioned who are critics of Islam.
But how must you feel when you stumble across Imams and renowned Islamic scholars with a different opinion than you? You must feel terribly alone.
You state: Note, also, that even where having sex with captive slave is allowed,the sex must be consensual that the slave must love to have sex with the master. This statement is oxymoronic, because a slave by definition is not in a position to give consent. Her well being depends upon being obedient. There is also such a thing as “Stockholm Syndrome” (Google it). Having sex with a slave under any circumstances must be regarded as exploitation. Whoever cannot see that has an underdeveloped or twisted sense of morality.
In the West, there is a rough parallel where if a person in a situation of authority exploits that authority to coerce a victim into having sex, he can be charged with the crime of rape.
Now think about that carefully. Imagine yourself to be, say, a young female student. Your teacher catches you alone in the locker room while you are changing and rapes you. If you complain, you fear retribution, yet you somehow find the courage to lodge a complaint. During the investigation, the teacher says the sex was consensual. There were no witnesses. It is his word against yours. But wait! Modern legal protocol says that considering the fact of you being a minor and the teacher being in a position of authority, he can be charged with the crime of rape. The position of a slave is infinitely more vulnerable.
Then all of the above is overshadowed by the morality of enslaving people in the first place. Only a twisted sense of morality could possibly justify this. “By their fruits, ye shall know them”. Any book that justifies slavery is not the inspired word of God.
Ibrahim – I am going to go way out on a limb here to suggest that my moral interpretations above, based on my Western values derived from a Judeo-Christian heritage are far superior to the values you demonstrate derived from Islam.
gravenimage says
More from the repulsive ibrahim itace muhammed:
Gravenimage,you (sic) are still held by holy ghost( (sic)the crook satan) and as such you cannot see the wisdom behind sharia punishments,which (sic) are just deterrent mechanisms for crime prevention to creat (sic) an ideal society.
…………………………..
What could *possibly* be more “ideal” than amputating the hands of petty thieves, hanging gay people, and stoning rape victims to death?
This is how pious Muslims think. *Ugh*.
More:
you (sic) are wrong to say islam (sic) is more concern with guaranteing (sic) sex enjoyment to men only.First ,Allah (sic) said
we have casted mawadda( (sic) love and affection) between hearts of men and women so that they will will be merciful to each other.
…………………………..
Where is the “love and affection” in FGM? In child marriage? In polygamy? In forced marriage? In marital rape? In wife beating? in summary divorce (the “Triple Talaq”)? In “Honor Killing”?
More:
In another verse in suratu nisaa( women) Allah says man and woman( husban (sic) and wife) should relate to each other in love and kindness.
…………………………..
In this same Sura it is affirmed that men can beat their wives and rape sex slaves.
More:
in the light of these verses the holy prophet muhammad (sic) said woman possess 99℅ degree of the total enjoyments during sex activities ;and (sic) as such man ( husband)shall (sic) not terminate sex activity until he is sure that the woman sex partner( the wife) is fully satisfied by dropping that most enjoyable sex fluid orgasm.the (sic) muslim (sic) scholars wrote many works on how to enjoy natural sex for men and women.
…………………………..
What rot. There are no such Ayats in this Sura. Does muhammed believe that most of here have not read the Qur’an?
How are women who have had their clitorises removed to experience orgasm?
More:
if you can read Arabic ,read books like Qurratul aayun( (sic) pleasing to sights) and Raudatul aatir( (sic) the garden of enjoyment).so,the (sic) hadith ,which (sic) allows that customary Arab practice of genital mutilation,if (sic) it is to reduce sex enjoyment to women,will (sic) tantamount to contadicting (sic) the Quranic verses guaranteeing maximum enjoyment for women.
…………………………..
Notice that muhammed is incapable of citing any such Qur’anic verses, because they do not exist.
Instead, this verse contains the admonition what wives must accommodate their husbands demands for sex “even if they are on camel back”, and the threat that angels will curse them until dawn if they do not accept these demands at any time.
More:
It is based on this reason that modern muslim (sic) jurists opined that fgm (sic) shall not be allowed and i (sic) agree with this opinion.
…………………………..
Actually, FGM is rife in the Muslim world. 95% of women in Egypt suffer such mutilation, as do almost 100% of girls in Somalia. Many Imams defend these practices.
And why would this just apply to “modern” Muslim jurists, if this was always true of Islam?
muhammed is incapable of keeping his bs straight. No surprise there.
More:
Note: where hadith directlty (sic) contradicts the spirit of Quranic teaching it shall be considered as inauthentic and as such unreliable.
…………………………..
These Hadith are deemed Sahih–reliable. If muhammed does not like this, he will have to take it up with orthodox Islamic scholarship.
More:
so,gravenimave ,if (sic) you want have maximum sexual enjoyment and love ,learn it from islam,even (sic) though you unreasonably hate it.
…………………………..
I have no personal problems with this at all–but then, I am a civilized Infidel.
More:
Note: indiscriminate sex outside marriage as it is common among mithraist (sic) christians (sic) associating with satan( holy ghost) is not acceptable enjoyment under sharia.
…………………………..
Yes, we all know that Shari’ah sanctions the stoning of women who dare speak to unrelated men or who are the victims of gang rape.
Meanwhile, Muslim men may engage in child rape, polygamy, the rape of Infidels in Jihad, and the use of sex slaves. It considers this “chaste”. *Ugh*.
Muslims consider this barbarism to be “moral”.
More:
Note,also, (sic) that even where having sex with captive slave is allowed,the (sic) sex must be consensual that the slave must love to have sex with the master; otherwise he must allow her to marry another slave she loves or a free man.if (sic) he forces her,she (sic) can take her case to sharia court to get her wish or compel the oppressing master to sell out the female slave in the same way sharia court can compel the oppressing master to sell out male slave or free him altogether.
…………………………..
And here the repellent muhammed is affirming the keeping and abuse of sex slaves. The idea that sex slaves have agency and can refuse to have sex with their masters–anymore than they can walk away from their enslavement–is ludicrous.
Here is the appalling Muslim professor Jonathan Brown affirming the rape of sex slaves in Islam:
“Professor Uses Lecture to Defend Islamic Slavery”
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/444936/jonathan-brown-slavery-lecture-islamic-sharia-protects-slaves
gravenimage says
Good post, Billybob.
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
Indonesia and Turkey are touted as two shining examples of Islamic moderation. Maybe the queer communities in the two countries should hold a public intra-faith dialog. See how the two measure up on the tolerance thing. Unfortunately, the event will have to be held in a venue like the shores of the Great Salt Lake in Utah, where sufficient security can be provided against an ISIS jihad mass murder attack, or an al-Qaeda jihad mass murder attack, or a Lone Wolf jihad mass murder attack, or a Known Wolf jihad mass murder attack, or a…
Monty says
Islam is not scientific, not moderate, completely closed to reason and Islam has no interest in “what works”. Dead people have no need to be cured of HIV, or anything else that Islam despises. “Queers against Islamophobia” must be something dreamed up by the Monty Python team. Attention gays: Why not just jump off a tall building now at your leisure, rather than wait for some Imam to throw you off? Islam’s solution to most things offensive is real simple. Kill the offender.
Monty says
That will work. Bring all the queers out in the open. Muslims would get to know who they are and that would be the end of them. You are right about Turkey and Indonesia. They are as good as it gets for Muslim countries. But not for much longer. Normal Islam is a rising force in both nations. Turkey is no longer secular. It’s never been real safe for non-Muslims there and it’s getting worse. Indonesia is more tolerant but the signs don’t look good.
No Fear says
Indonesia has a huge HIV problem among straight and gay people yet they are targeting gay people. Like Russia they are in denial about the whole thing. To control the health issues associated with HIV you need acceptance of the problem, good science to limit damage and education. Denial, enforcement of Sharia and religious obsession will not work.
No Fear says
“good science to limit damage, and education.”
gravenimage says
Indonesia: 140 men arrested in raid on gay sauna
…………………….
And yet, how many naifs still believe that Indonesia is “moderate”?
mortimer says
American GAY LEADERS should get on an AIRPLANE immediately, go to Indonesia and explain to the MULLAHS in Indonesia that ISLAM LOVES GAYS!
All of San Francisco should get their planes tickets NOW so they can convince INDONESIANS that their interpretation of Islam is WRONG… WRONG!
ibrahim itace muhammed says
Mortimer, you lied.The holy Quran in several verses declared gay sex behavior as abominable bellow the behavior of beasts.the holy prophet muhammad stated that it is punishable with death.thus ,indonesians are correct,while you are very wrong as liar
billybob says
Ibrahim – mortimer above you was being sarcastic. He would agree with you on this one.
Truth 101 says
BillyBob,
Embracing things because they appear to have some utility can be very unwise. Homosexuals are actually a very small percentage of the population, and we don’t need their votes to accomplish anything. Moreover, again I will remind you that if we’re not virtuous, all this is for naught. We won’t be able to save the West, nor will it be worth saving.
Truth 101 says
Ibrahim,
The Koran very well may say those things, but that’s not the point. Lust (disordered sexual desire) is very hard for people to overcome in general, and it becomes largely impossible without the grace of God. Of course, the only one who can provide grace is God, meaning the true God — not “Allah.”
It is very plain when viewing the Muslim world that grace is sorely lacking. There is little true love; little joy, mercy or mirth. You need to embrace Christianity, the truth faith, which, as you know, predates Islam by 600 years. Why not walk into the light?
gravenimage says
The Qur’an also makes clear that one of the rewards for “Martyrs” in Paradise are “pearly boys”, which they get in addition to those 72 Houris.
Truth 101 says
I must say that we’re going off the deep end jumping on this pro-homosexual bandwagon as a way to impugn Islam. I dislike Islam as much as anyone, but disallowing homosexual bathhouses is just common sense.
If this is what the West has come to — buying into the notion that “LGBTQ rights” somehow actually are rights and that Muslims are wrong for “violating” them — then, well, we know why the West isn’t long for this world.
I think we can find more valid criticisms of Islam.
Oh, and by the way, why is Christine Williams suddenly hyphenating her name?
gravenimage says
Are you also fine with pious Muslims hanging homosexuals and throwing them off tall buildings?
You wrote:
Oh, and by the way, why is Christine Williams suddenly hyphenating her name?
…………………
Now you have an issue with *this*? Do you care about opposing Jihad at all?
Truth 101 says
No, I certainly don’t approve of the execution of homosexuals. But that’s the point: There’s a LOT of real estate between killing them and approving their behavior. The Muslims represent one kind of radicalism while we (insofar as this goes) represent another.
I oppose jihad more than you know and more than I can reveal here. I also know that you can’t successfully oppose jihad by embracing decadence in the name of fighting it. If we are not virtuous as a people, we will be easy prey for any foreign enemy. And our lack of virtue is precisely why we’re easy prey for jihad.
Operating by the principle “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” is foolhardy and can be destructive. It’s especially foolish here because the homosexual lobby types vote for the very politicians who want to flood us with Muslims.
billybob says
While I understand and sympathise with where you are coming from, I do see utility in “this pro-homosexual bandwagon as a way to impugn Islam.”
The way I see it is that a dangerous alliance has formed between LGBTQ and the Left. Since LGBTQ seems to get a disproportionate amount of attention from the MSM, the Left exploit this to gain a powerful vehicle to spread their disinformation on Islam and their bankrupt ideology in general.
I believe it a worthwhile endeavour to inform gays both that Islam is not their friend and that they are being exploited by the Left, in an attempt break up this unholy alliance and perhaps even gain their voice on the side of truth.
I leave all other issues aside. They are not important in this context. In no way is this “embracing decadence in the name of fighting it.” Specifically, I am not embracing the LGBTQ with my statement above, nor do not embrace them.
gravenimage says
Truth, you are not prevented from opposing Jihad here.
This is *Jihad Watch*. This is why we are here.
ibrahim itace muhammed says
Billybob, i think i made it clear in one of my comments that there is no single verse in the Quran encouraging muslims to own slaves ,male for labor or female sex slave, unlike in the bible where slavery is prescribed.it is from numerous verses calling on Muslims to free their slaves,males and females,the Muslim jurists infered that it is permissible to own slaves,including female sex slaves,under stringent conditions that the master shall not maltreat the slave.if he does ,the slave can seek judicial remedy before a sharia court to get his freedom or change of master.But the fact still remains that the spirit of Quranic injunctions aim at ending slavery and it has vanished in most muslim societies.Note,slave cannot be acquired without valid jihad acceptable to sharia.isis jihad is not acceptable to sharia.As such those captives isis are holding are not valid slaves.thus,islam has nothing to lose if slavery is abolished altogether.
billybob says
Whether it was allowed or not, all these past 1400 years except the past century slavery was a part on the Islamic world. How is that possible given what you have said above?
“unlike in the bible where slavery is prescribed” Ibrahim, you don’t understand Christianity. The Bible has no authority, in and of itself. Christ alone is the authority in the “Christian” religion, which takes its name from Jesus Christ. Christ’s words and teachings are found in the New Testament, aka, the “Gospels”. This is the heart and soul of Christianity. Ibrahim, I guarantee that if you read the words of Christ you will find that an inspiration. Meanwhile, that other part of the Bible, called the “Old Testament”, is merely baggage carried along with the Christian faith. It is only relevant where it backs the teachings of Christ, or shows the folly of not following Christ or other such wisdom. It is also a source of folk tales that had been carried down through the ages by word of mouth.
In no way did Christ advocate slavery. While there were slaves at the time he lived, if you understand his teachings, there is no way a Christian could enslave anyone.
And finally, I wouldn’t want to be a slave no matter how “kind” my owner was. Slavery is loss of freedom, and I love freedom.
ibrahim itace muhammed says
Billybob ,what about church men who owned female sex slaves and castrated male slaves and used them for hard labor? the New testment you refered to quoted jesus saying slaves shall obey their masters even if they maltreat them.is that not an endorsement of existing slavery practiced during jesus’ s time? Billybob,you are under rating my level of understanding christianity. Remember,not all christians accept that twisted interpretation of a verse in the new testment where jesus said he did not come to change old testment ,but to fulfil it and its application will continue to last hour; which paul the liar interpreted to mean that jesus fulfilled the law by giving his blood for their sins and the law now is law of grace where christians are no longer to be held to account for their misdeeds.they can kill( as they did during crusade wars) ,practice gay sex behavior( contrary to old testment) ,colonise other nations asking them to close their eyes to steal their wealths and other atrocities ; yet they are sinless covered by blood of mithraist jesus.Again,mithraist jesus said he came for violence not for peace citing sword as means of fighting.Billybob,continue ranting,you cannot defend mithraic filthy christianity.
billybob says
Ibrahim – I resent you calling my comment a “rant”. It was merely a comment. Anyhow, you said “Billybob,you are under rating my level of understanding christianity. ” If you understood Christ’s message in the whole, you would not call Christianity “filthy”. There is no call for that whatsoever. If you want to condemn popes and kings and “churchmen” go right ahead. These are all human and subject to human weaknesses. But by casting aspersions on Christ you show your ignorance and the ugliness in your soul. Christ was a good man, a man of peace, humility, love, compassion, and kindness. He had nothing whatsoever to do with Mithraism.
Robin Nelson says
Ibrahim, you’re misunderstanding several things… if you have a minute, I’ll articulate them. It’s kind of long, but you said a lot.
“is that not an endorsement of existing slavery practiced during jesus’ s time”
No. As I said above, it was merely an acknowledgment that the practice existed.
“… a verse in the new testment where jesus said he did not come to change old testment , but to fulfil it…”
Again, misunderstanding. He did not come to abolish the LAW (with all its ceremonial baggage), He came to fulfill it ON BEHALF OF HIS PEOPLE (and no one else). He not only died for our sins, but He lived the perfect life that Adam failed to live as the representative man. So for a Christian, the legal requirements of the law have been met. This is why He allowed Himself to be baptized: because though He didn’t need it to be ‘clean,’ it would have been required of fallen Adam in order to restore him to a judicially acceptable position before God.
“…which paul the liar interpreted to mean that jesus fulfilled the law by giving his blood for their sins and the law now is law of grace where christians are no longer to be held to account for their misdeeds.”
Oh, we certainly do account personally for misdeeds. Though we are freed from the rigorous totality of the Law’s requirements by virtue of its having been fulfilled by Jesus on our behalf, we are subject to chastisement, discipline, and even death in some circumstances (like taking the Lord’s supper unworthily. (Not unworthy, unworthily.).
“they can kill( as they did during crusade wars)…”
First — and this will be helpful to you I think — don’t believe that everyone with a cross around his neck or on his tunic is a Christian. Only God knows for sure, but by and large our deeds reveal what we really are. Though I don’t know the true motives for the Crusades, there is such a thing as a just war: for example, fighting jihad now. Or fighting the Nazis during WWII. Besides, for quite some time before the Protestant Reformation in 1517, when Luther recovered the true gospel, the church was mostly in darkness, and following a corrupted Roman gospel. In any case, as I said, not everyone in a church pew is a true Christian.
” ,practice gay sex behavior( contrary to old testment)…”
This is NEVER allowed for a Christian. Though some truly regenerated believers come from, and can slip back into, homosexual practices, it is the ‘state,’ not the ‘status’ that defines a Christian. No Christian will willingly live in sin (especially this one) untroubled by conscience. David was a man after god’s own heart, but he committed adultery, and wasn’t concerned about it until the prophet Nathan brought it to his attention, at which time he mourned deeply. We all fall down, but a Christian will get back up and seek forgiveness, repentance, and sanctification.
“…colonise other nations asking them to close their eyes to steal their wealths and other atrocities…”
Yes, European nations seized lands belonging to other people, and it was not right. That practice was similar to Babylon (Iraq) invading Israel; Medo-Persia invading Babylon and Greece [modern Turkey]; and Islam invading and controlling the entire Middle East under a caliphate, which will temporarily be restored under Antichrist (the Mahdi), but will then be destroyed forever at the return of Christ.
“… yet they are sinless covered by blood of mithraist jesus…”
I don’t understand this “Mithraist Jesus.” Who told you He was a Mithraist? He was not. He was a fully observant Jew. Mithraism had its roots in Persia, and pagan Rome. As to His life on Earth, Jesus was an observant Jew.
“Again,mithraist jesus said he came for violence not for peace citing sword as means of fighting.”
Another misunderstanding of the verse. When He says He brought a sword, he meant that He was dividing people up: those that would be His, and under His protection a grace, and those who would be judged, which, are basically anyone who is not a [true] Christian.
t. says
“Billybob, i think i made it clear in one of my comments that there is no single verse in the Quran encouraging muslims to own slaves ,male for labor or female sex slave, ”
ibrahim, the above confirmed it to me. You’re the most malignantly dishonest coward liar I’ve ever come across in my life!
Robin Nelson says
You may be misreading the Bible, Ibrahim. The Bible doesn’t prescribe slavery; neither does it tolerate it. In fact, the Bible condemns the practice, which was punishable by death under the Mosaic law. References to slavery merely acknowledge that the institution existed, not that it was approved. Here’s a reference I found:
“He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death.” (Exodus 21:16)
So, obviously, slavery during Old Testament times was not what we commonly recognize as slavery, such as that practiced in the 17th century Americas, when Africans were captured and forcibly brought to work on plantations. Unlike our modern government welfare programs, there was no safety-net for ancient Middle Easterners who could not provide a living for themselves. In ancient Israel, people who could not provide for themselves or their families sold them into slavery so they would not die of starvation or exposure. In this way, a person would receive food and housing in exchange for labor.
gravenimage says
ibrahim itace muhammed wrote:
Billybob, i (sic) think i (sic) made it clear in one of my comments that there is no single verse in the Quran encouraging muslims (sic) to own slaves ,male (sic) for labor or female sex slave, unlike in the bible (sic) where slavery is prescribed.
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This is, of course, disingenuous. The foul “Prophet” enslaved his victims, and he was kept and sold slaves, both for labor and as sex slaves. And his actions are considered a model for Muslims for all time.
In fact, Muslim scholars advocated enslaving people today on just this basis.
Whereas, of course, the Christian world long since *abolished* slavery, and many abolitionists were devote Christians who cited the Bible for their actions.
Jesus never kept slaves–instead, he ministered to people who were enslaved.
More:
it (sic) is from numerous verses calling on Muslims to free their slaves,males (sic) and females,the (sic) Muslim jurists infered that it is permissible to own slaves,including (sic) female sex slaves,under (sic) stringent conditions that the master shall not maltreat the slave.if (sic) he does ,the slave can seek judicial remedy before a sharia court to get his freedom or change of master.
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The appalling ibrahim itace muhammed is incapable of understanding that owning humans is *itself* maltreatment. Using them as sex slaves is even more appalling.
Besides, his claim that Muslim slaves are treated well is belied by thousands of slave accounts from people who were able to escape from this barbarism over the centuries.
But muhammed does not care–after all, these are just “filthy Infidels”.
More:
But the fact still remains that the spirit of Quranic injunctions aim at ending slavery and it has vanished in most muslim (sic) societies.
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What crap. The Saudis still held open slave markets when I was a small child, and only ended the practice *under Western pressure*. Muslim countries like Mauritania *never* ended slavery–an estimated 17% of Mauritanians are slaves.
Muslims in the Sudan enslave Christians there. There are refugees from this slavery who have made it to freedom in the West.
Christian groups charitably buy and free slaves. There are no such Muslim groups. Why would there be? Muslims are concerned with enslaving Infidels, not with freeing them.
More:
Note,slave (sic) cannot be acquired without valid jihad acceptable to sharia.
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In other words, Infidels can be taken as slaves if Muslims decide to attack them *Ugh*.
More:
isis (sic) jihad is not acceptable to sharia.As (sic) such those captives isis (sic) are holding are not valid slaves.thus,islam (sic) has nothing to lose if slavery is abolished altogether.
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Why would Jihad by ISIS be any less valid than Jihad by, say, Sudanese Muslims? What crap.
And if Islam was fine with the abolition of slavery, this would have happened many years ago. After all, the civilized world abolished slavery long since.
More:
…the law now is law of grace where christians (sic) are no longer to be held to account for their misdeeds.they (sic) can kill…
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muhammed once again shows that he understands *nothing* about Christianity. The Christian concept of Grace does not allow Christians to murder with impunity.
Additionally, murder is *illegal* in Christian nations.
Muslims, however, can not only murder Kuffar, but are *rewarded with Paradise if they do so. The figures most admired in Islam are “Martyrs” who die murdering Infidels.
Ben Kennedy says
So the Sodomites have trouble with a religion that allows men to rape little boys? Sounds like a family problem.
gravenimage says
So you don’t care if Muslims are slaughtering gay people?
You realize that they target Infidels as well, don’t you?