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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Hugh Fitzgerald: “Dinner and Dialogue” with Muslims In Columbia, South Carolina

Jun 13, 2017 5:06 pm By Hugh Fitzgerald

“Dinner and Dialogue.” You already know it must have been like, what questions were asked by the credulous Infidels, and what taqiyya-and-tu-quoque answers were given by Imam Omar Shaheed. But while you may be forgiven for wanting to skip yet another example of Muslim apologetics, it’s a salutary exercise to go through this event’s dishonesties, in our constant attempt to sweep back the tide of idiocy.

First a little, thence to more, we’ll sample all the (Muslim propagandists’) killing store. And take issue, as the non-Muslims present mostly did not, with every one of the assertions made during that evening of “Dinner and Dialogue” with Muslims. Since little of what was discussed was in the newspaper report, I have instead imagined both the questions from the audience of non-Muslims and the responses of Imam Omar Shaheed.

Comments are interspersed throughout the report. Passages from the news item are in blockquotes.

As Imam Omar Shaheed looked out at the 150 people who packed the Columbia Museum of Art’s auditorium Sunday night, he was struck by one thing.

“We’re all different religions, but we have a humanity,” he said. “That’s really standing out.”

“We have a humanity’”– it’s a treacly semaphoring that “we are all God’s children” and that “we have so much more that unites than separates us, and isn’t that what we should be talking about, as we reject the haters and the dividers and the islamophobes, and try to find out just how much we have in common?” That’s what Omar Shaheed wants you to believe.

Shaheed, imam at Masjid as-Salaam in Columbia, was part of the panel at “Dinner and Dialogue: Understanding Islam.” The discussion that was part of the event answered questions about the tenets of Islam, the most common misconceptions about the religion and the similarities between Islam, Christianity and Judaism.”

But before they could start that discussion, someone well-prepared, who reads Jihad Watch, who has read Robert Spencer’s “Blogging the Qur’an,” manages just then to ask Omar Shaheed: “We may have a humanity” as you said, but what I’d like to know is what you make of Qur’an 98:6, that describes Infidels as ‘the vilest of creatures.’”

Shaheed, though startled — like all Muslim clerics, he hates it when Infidels actually know something — will have to offer an answer for the sake of the Infidels in his audience, but what? The Lie Direct? “Did you actually read it in the Arabic version, which is the only version that counts?” The questioner likely won’t have, and Shaheed has introduced a note of doubt about the accuracy of the English version. And then he might follow that up with an offer to continue this discussion at a later time: “I’d love to discuss this further, so why don’t you come to see me and we’ll go over the Arabic original together and how to properly contextualize it?” (implying that there’s less to it than meets the eye). “ And I’d be more than happy to show you what, though not stated directly, is clearly understood by Muslims, which is that the verse is directed at everyone who is exposed to the truth but rejects it. They can be Muslims or non-Muslims.”

Shaheed is showing goodwill, he’s showing that he has no intention of hiding anything, he just wants to make sure you, the Infidels, aren’t misunderstanding a verse or two which, he admits, “can sometimes happen if you can’t read the text in Arabic, or don’t know the context.” On the imam’s face there’s a look of sincere sympathy, expressive of an earnest desire to make sure that no non-Muslim gets the wrong impression about Islam. And Imam Omar Shaheed now patiently explains to the non-Muslims present that the Qur’an could not possibly mean to call all Infidels “the worst of creatures.” “In Arabic it is absolutely clear that what is meant is that only those people who are guilty not only of refusing the truth once they have been exposed to it” (he never says “refusing the message of Muhammad”) “but also of sowing ‘corruption in the land.’ Those are the people — it doesn’t have to be stated, it’s so strongly implied — who are ‘vile creatures.’ They could be Muslim or non-Muslim, it doesn’t matter. And all Muslims understand that,” Omar Shaheed will insist. None of his fellow Muslims on the panel will contradict him; they know what he’s trying to do.

Shaheed continues: “And how could we, who revere Jesus and Moses as prophets, think those who believe in them are ‘vile’? How could we, fellow monotheists, think that people who believe as we do in one God, and believe, just as we do, that God revealed himself to Abraham, are ‘vile creatures’? And just look at us. Why would we Muslims move to countries, in Europe, in North America, in Australia, that are full of people who if we were to believe your interpretation, are ‘vile creatures’? Would we want to live among ‘vile creatures’? To send our children to go to school with ‘vile creatures’? To learn from ‘vile creatures’? Of course not. It makes no sense. We love America, the American way of life, and Americans. They are most certainly not ‘vile creatures’ to us.” (Murmurs of proud agreement.)

“But I sympathize — I know that not everything is crystal clear in the Qur’an, not even to us, the Believers. It is sometimes hard to understand parts of the Qur’an. You may have to read between the lines to get the full meaning. After all, there are Islamic scholars who have spent their lives reading, studying, memorizing the Qur’an and its complexities. That’s why Muslims read a tafsir, or commentary, on the Qur’an. It’s that complicated. So don’t be shy about asking about parts of the Qur’an that don’t make sense to you.That’s one of the reasons I’m here tonight with other Muslims. We want to help. We don’t want Islam to be a mystery.”

“I’ll take one more question before we return to our planned discussion.”

At this point, someone who, Omar Shaheed will discover, is even more disturbingly well-prepared than the first questioner, raises his hand. Such people are starting to show up, on their own, at local Meet-Your-Muslim neighbor events, or reasonable facsimiles thereof, held at a mosque, a school, an auditorium, where they deliberately raise uncomfortable questions, and inject a note of well-founded skepticism.

Called on, he asks; “Imam Shaheed, what do you think the effect is on Muslims, as they say their five daily prayers, of cursing the Kuffar seventeen times a day?” Shaheed, startled, masks his fury, for he knows exactly the passage to which reference is being made, but simply says ‘I’m afraid you’ve misunderstood the verses I think you are referring to, that is the last two verses of the first sura of the Qu’ran, the Fatihah. You should read it more carefully. There is no mention, none, of the ‘Kuffar’ which is what you called them, but I must say I find that word impolite and prefer ‘non-Muslims.’ I have those verses right here, so let me read them to all of you: ‘Guide us to the straight path, the path of those upon whom You have bestowed favor, not of those who have evoked [Your] anger or of those who are astray.’ Now there is no mention of Jews or Christians in those verses. None. People who are looking for trouble, seeking to divide us, are just reading into it what isn’t there. There’s a famous commentator, Nisaburi, who says that ‘those who have incurred Allah’s wrath are the people of negligence, and those who have gone astray are the people of immoderation.’ What’s wrong with that? People of negligence,who do too little, or immoderation, who do too much — they could be from any faith — incur Allah’s wrath. Nothing at all there about ‘cursing the Kuffar.’ Islamophobes like to insist that Christians and Jews are being referred to, but there’s no evidence for this.

“And now let’s have the main discussion. We’re here to answer questions about ‘the tenets of Islam, the most common misconceptions about the religion and the similarities between Islam, Christianity and Judaism.’ Yes?”

Someone asks: “Are Muslims monotheists?”

The imam is ready for that. “Yes. Islam is one of the three great monotheisms. And you know something — we must be doing something right, because Islam is the world’s fastest-growing monotheism — in fact, it’s the world’s fastest-growing religion.” (Laughter from the audience.)

“Why is Islam considered an Abrahamic religion?”

“Oh, that’s because we hold that God revealed himself to Abraham. Muslims, Christians, Jews, we all look back to Abraham. And we’ve got so much more in common.”

“Who was Muhammad?”

“Muhammad was the last of the Prophets, the Seal of the Prophets. Allah’s message was delivered to him over 23 years, and that message can be found in the Holy Qur’an. He is the most important figure in Islam. He brought what we Muslims believe is the Truth. He was, we feel, a Model of Conduct and the Perfect Man. But he was not divine. And he was not the only prophet — we revere Jesus, and Moses too. And many other prophets who came before Muhammad. We have collections of stories about the words and deeds of Muhammad, called the Hadith. There are many collections of these stories but some are more trustworthy than others. Six collections are known as ‘Sahih’ — that is, authentic — and among those the two most trustworthy are by Al-Bukhari and Muslim, that is ‘Sahih Bukhari’ and ‘Sahih Muslim.’ There is also the sira, the biography of Muhammad. You cannot understand Islam without understanding Muhammad.”

At this point the questioning stopped, and Omar Shaheed continued:

Shaheed drew similarities to the ways, he said, the Christian religion was hijacked by the American Christian Knights, a chapter of the Ku Klux Klan. He added that suicide goes against the beliefs of Islam.

“So where’s the suicide bomber coming from?” he asked the audience. “You think Islam would preach that? If you do, then you’ve got to believe that what the Klansmen said about Christianity was correct.”

But there was no “hijacking” of the Christian religion by the Ku Klux Klan, and its most recent avatars. They did not base their beliefs on Christian doctrine, though many of their members claimed to be Christians. As for suicide, it does go against the beliefs of Islam as Shaheed says, but Islam also teaches that even if you will almost certainly die in an attack on Infidels, as when you set off an explosive belt you are wearing, this is still not considered suicide because the intent was not to kill yourself, but to kill Infidels. And though the chance of surviving is infinitesimal, it is not zero. If you kill Infidels, while dying yourself, not only are you not considered to have committed suicide, but are praised as a martyr, or shahid, the surest way to the Islamic heaven. When Shahid asks “so where’s the suicide bomber coming from,” he knows from exactly where — Islamic doctrine, that considers him not a suicide but a martyr. What we Infidels call suicide bombing are not regarded as “suicide” by Muslims. Nor are they described as such, either by those who send the bombers out, or by those who immolate themselves.

Sunday’s event was put on to address misconceptions about the Islamic religion, according to Glenna Barlow, manager of engagement for the museum. A dinner after the discussion included cuisine from around the Islamic world.

“We thought it was important to differentiate between radical Islam and the majority of peaceful, devout Muslims around the world,” she said

What does this mean? What is “radical Islam” but the Islam of those who are ready and willing to take up the duty of violent Jihad, as set out in the Qur’an? The obligation is ordinarily a communal one, fard kifayah, and if enough “radicalized” Muslims fulfill the duty, other Muslims, the so-called “peaceful” ones, are relieved of the obligation. But many of those “peaceful” Muslims Glenna Barlow mentions — Imam Shaheed insists almost all Muslims are “peaceful” — tell pollsters that they support the imposition of Sharia in the West, or even that they support the terrorist attacks by other Muslims. For example, 31% of young Muslims in Britain have expressed approval of the 7/7/2005 bombings in London. BBC Radio in its own poll in 2015 found that 45% of British Muslims agree that clerics preaching violence against the West represent “mainstream Islam.” Only 57% of Muslims worldwide disapprove of Al-Qaeda. 25% of Muslim-Americans say that terrorist attacks on Americas are justified as part of a global jihad. 48% of British Muslims would not report anyone “linked to terror.”

There is much more in this worrisome vein, and none of it supports the claim that almost all Muslims are “peaceful.” What is needed is for someone to print out this information about these disturbing opinion polls, and bring it to these meet-your-Muslim-neighbor events, and either quote from them — as I have just done — or offer to hand them out. Omar Shaheed will find it impossible to deny the significance of these polls.

Omar Shaheed knows perfectly well that the people who come to these events know very little about Islam (save for the well-prepared questioners who sometimes show up, clearly to make trouble, and who are then put off with force-fed taqiyya), but are eager to hear whatever soothing version is offered to them to relieve their anxiety, and he’s ready to give them exactly that. Will some of them have read the Qur’an, or even just a little bit of the Qur’an? Not likely. The hadith, the sira? They won’t even have heard of these. If they try the Qur’an on their own, much of it will be impossible to comprehend. To have a real Muslim offer to explain Islam, to answer all our questions — what could be better?

And Imam Omar has invited them to ask whatever they want.

 

“Anybody heard of the Five Pillars of Islam? (“Yes’” several people shout in unison). “Can anyone name them?” Someone volunteers: “the Hajj?” “Yes, that’s right. The Hajj is the pilgrimage to Mecca a Muslim should make, if he can afford it, at least once in his lifetime.”

“Anyone else?” “Prayer?” says someone in the third row. “Yes, we Muslims are big on prayer, in fact we prostrate ourselves in prayer, always facing Mecca, five times a day. It’s called salat. Any others?” Silence. “Well, there’s giving to charity, what we call zakat. Charity is is very much at the center of Islamic life. We have a duty to the neediest among us. Okay, you’re doing fine. And there’s Sawm, or the fasting during the holy month of Ramadan. And then at night, during Ramadan, you have the Iftar Dinner, when you break the fast with family and friends. You may not know it, but President Thomas Jefferson held the first Iftar Dinner in the White House. Islam’s been in this country a lot longer than any of you may realize. It goes all the way back to Columbus — his navigator knew Arabic, practiced Islam in secrecy. And many of the slaves were Muslims. We’re just learning about all this now. That’s why President Obama said rightly that ‘Islam has always been part of America’s history.’

“But I’m getting away from the Five Pillars. There’s one left, the most important of all: the Shehada, or Profession of Faith. We acknowledge that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger. That’s basically it. Now do you notice anything?” Someone says “Well, Islam seems a lot like Christianity.” “Exactly” says Imam Shaheed. “We pray, and so do you. We give — it’s a Muslim duty — to charity, and so do you. We observe a period of fasting, and so do Christians. We go on pilgrimages, and so do Christians. The only difference is that we have a short Profession of Faith, and Christians have a Credo, which is longer, but they are essentially the same thing.

“So if someone asks you some of the ways Christianity and Islam are alike, just answer: Both are monotheisms, both are Abrahamic faiths. And both ask their adherents to profess their faith, to pray, to fast, to give to charity, to go on pilgrimages.

“Now, any other questions?’”

“Do Muslims believe in an afterlife?”

“Most certainly we do, and you go to Heaven for the same reason that Christians do, for leading a virtuous life.”

“I hear so much about Jihad, can you please explain exactly what it is?”

“I was hoping I’d get a question on that. There’s so much confusion out there and, I’m sad to say, a lot of misinformation that is being spread by hate groups. And that’s having a terrible effect. Did you know that there’s been a 68% increase this year in hate crimes against Muslims? Reported from almost every state in the union. Bacon strips left outside mosques. Several ladies in hijabs being told by people on the street to ‘go back where you came from.’ Muslim families who report being started at suspiciously in airports. And the list goes on.” From the audience, clucks of sympathy and dismay.

“And I think we all know why. It’s always the same few groups, that have whipped people up about Jihad this and Jihad that. Just look at what you see on TV, what you read on the Internet. Well, let me tell you what Jihad is. It’s literally a ‘struggle.’ A spiritual struggle. It’s making sure you master your own behavior, to lead a life the way a good Muslim should. Some of you may have heard the famous story about Muhammad coming home from battle? He and his men had been attacked and he had been fighting, but when he got home, he announced that he was returning from the Lesser Jihad to the Greater Jihad. In other words, the Greater Jihad was the one he conducted at home, the internal Jihad for self-mastery. And fighting was for him the Lesser Jihad. Of course Muhammad sometimes had to fight for his beliefs, the way we all do, but it wasn’t something that gave him any pleasure, though to hear some of the islamophobes you would hardly be aware of that.”

“Is there freedom of religion in Muslim countries?”

“Well, l’m glad you asked that. There’s been so much nonsense in the news about that. There are Christians in practically every Muslim country, even in Saudi Arabia — I’m not sure the Saudis could run their hospitals or universities or oilfields without Christians.” (Laughter from the audience.) “If there weren’t freedom of religion, wouldn’t you think after 1400 years of Islam, there would be no Christians left? My goodness, I was in Egypt recently, visiting some relatives, and I saw Copts everywhere. They seemed to own half the shops in Cairo. There’s at least eighteen million of them in Egypt. Of course, a few fanatics have attacked Coptic churches. But they still go to church, no one in the government tries to prevent them. They are free to practice Christianity. I’m not denying there are Muslim crazies who twist and distort Islam, and have attacked Christians. Every country has its crazies. Columbine, Timothy McVeigh. But definitely there is freedom of religion. And look not just at Egypt, but at all the churches in Iraq and Syria and Lebanon — they wouldn’t be there if there hadn’t been freedom of religion over the last 1400 years. And of course it’s not just Christians who have freedom of religion. Look at Pakistan,where there are not only Christians but two million Hindus, perfectly free to practice Hinduism.”

“But what about all these stories we hear about Christians being killed in Muslim countries?”

“Oh yes, it’s terrible. There’s no doubt that there’s been some of that. But remember it’s a recent phenomenon. It’s ISIS. And ISIS is on the run. I think the problem is that a small group of Muslims have simply gone — I don’t know how else to say this — crazy. I’ve tried to figure out what’s pushed them over the edge. I think what’s happened is that they are punishing the Christians in the Middle East, their neighbors and friends, with whom they have lived for generations, for the foreign policies of some Christian countries. It’s the sight of what Christian armies have done, invading Muslim countries, killing civilians — you know, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya — that has just been too much. I’m not excusing it — I’m just trying to explain it. Of course it’s terrible. And the silent majority of Muslims need to do more to speak out against it.

“I almost forgot the most important thing. It’s a verse in the Qur’an, a direct command to all Believers. Qur’an 2:256: ‘There is no compulsion in religion.’ I don’t think you can be much clearer than that. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. The next time someone tell you about ‘religious persecution’ in Muslim countries, just recite Qur’an 2:256 to them. And tell them that nearly 20 million Copts live in Egypt — and they are certainly not trying to leave. And about how the Egyptian government bombed ISIS camps in Libya in retaliation for the bombing of Coptic churches. The twisted interpretations of Islam by a handful of lunatics should not be used to provoke hatred of the vast majority of peaceful Muslims.

“Any other questions?”

“What can we do to help create more understanding of Islam in our own faith communities?”

“You know,” says Imam Omar Shaheed, “I’m very glad you asked that question. I’d like to think that when those who try to divide us with their so-called anti-Sharia rallies, or try to peddle their poison on campuses or elsewhere, that you good people who’ve come here tonight will show up to defend peaceful Muslims. Show Up, and Shout Down. And I think if you tell others what you’ve learned tonight, maybe just starting with all the things Islam and Christianity share — the monotheism, and both being abrahamic faiths, and of course the Five Pillars, that are duties practically identical to what Christians observe, that would help a lot. And if you feel like writing letters to your congressman, or letters to the editor of your newspaper in support of your local Muslim community, or put up signs outside your houses, as some people do, the ones that say ‘No matter where you are from, we’re glad you’re our neighbor’ in English, Arabic, and Spanish, all that can help. It would be great to see those signs everywhere as a way of saying no to bigotry. And you can also request, as parents, that the local schools have units on Islam that at least go over the things discussed here tonight, so that early on, children will be exposed to the truth about our faith, and not be scared of Muslims because of some story on Fox News, or some rant by our president. These study units on Islam are already happening in many school systems, but we need to do much more. The faith of 1.6 billion people, the fastest-growing religion on earth, shouldn’t be ignored by our schools. And when some people start describing Jihad as involving violence, tell them what Muhammad himself said about the Lesser and the Greater Jihad. And about the verse that says ‘there is no compulsion in religion.’ And one more thing: please don’t hesitate to make an appointment and come to visit me, to continue the conversation we began tonight. And feel free to refer people to me if you think they are open to being educated, and not hopeless bigots. My door is always open to anyone who genuinely wants to find out more about Islam, and is not just trying to play a game of gotcha.

“Now let us continue the dialogue in the next room, where we can get better acquainted over dinner. I’ve just been signaled that everything is ready: the curried chicken, the lamb kebab, the hummus, the baba ghanoush, the naan and pita bread, and all the rest, that Mrs. Bazzaz and her staff of volunteers have prepared. Honestly, you are in for a real treat. We have dishes from Morocco, Lebanon, Pakistan, Bangladesh. After a dinner like this, I don’t think that anyone can say that Islam is monolithic. Sorry I couldn’t have Thomas Jefferson join us, but you can consider this not just a dinner but an Iftar dinner, as this is the holy month of Ramadan, and I hope that as new friends we will have many more such dinners together. So please — in the next room, the buffet is ready, and once you’ve helped yourself, just sit down at any of the tables. We’ll be sure to have at least one member of our Muslim community at each table to answer questions about Ramadan.. And don’t forget to go back for the baklava, basbousa, and kunafeh. Enjoy!”

The evening was certainly a great success. People learned so much. Everyone agreed.

Here are what two of them had to say:

Melissa Chappell and Kristi Meetze came from Newberry County to the event Sunday. Meetze, 44, was surprised by the similarities between Christianity and Islam, and said events like “Dinner and Dialogue” are important for education.

“To let everybody know that what you see on the news is not the whole story,” she said.

Chappell, 47, said she’s developed an interest in Islam but doesn’t know a lot about it.

“A lot of bad things people say about Islam, it’s not really Islam, but cultural projections that people put on Islam,” she said, specifically noting the perceived prohibition of women driving cars. “That’s not a tenet of Islam. That’s a cultural thing.”

And a good time was had by all.

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Filed Under: "Islamophobia", dialogue, Featured, Hugh Fitzgerald Tagged With: Columbia, Omar Shaheed, South Carolina


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Comments

  1. mgoldberg says

    Jun 13, 2017 at 6:20 pm

    My my, all the banners burning. I suppose with such deception about the unity of monotheistic relgions, then the mass homicidism of the Christians, that he slightly admitted to in modern times has nothing to do with the eradication throughout the entirely of the Islamic world throughout 1400 yrs. I might have brought a video of the Ramadan series that was shown for years by Syrian TV, for their month of religious purification, showing religious jews as hijacking an innocent christian boy for the purposes of draining the blood from his body for their passover Matzos. There are hundreds of such videos that should be brought to such piddling meetings to get the muslim apologists to explain the lie that is their doing and what it has to do with Islam. Which in fact it has everything to do with Islam.

    • WPM says

      Jun 13, 2017 at 6:41 pm

      Yes the Islamics lie like a rug. The Nazis look, Ok to America even had rallies in New York City in the 1930s.No one wanted to believe they were rounding up whole towns of people who lived for ages uncounted as good people good to the country they lived in even serving in the arms force there to be killed like so many unwanted pets!1400 track record of murder mayhem rape and thievery. The is the story of Islam they are as much like Christian religion as an Oak tree is like a fish!

  2. somehistory says

    Jun 13, 2017 at 6:23 pm

    I’m acknowledging now, that I have not enough self-control to attend something like this lie fest from this deceiving child of satan the devil, posturing and lying to his heart’s content, pretending that islum is “like Christianity and Judaism* when he knows full well that he is lying.

  3. somehistory says

    Jun 13, 2017 at 6:25 pm

    Like Joe Wilson to o, to the liar in S.C.: “You lie.”

  4. mgoldberg says

    Jun 13, 2017 at 6:37 pm

    I would comment first of all: Sir, you come here during the month of Ramadan. The holy month of Islam.
    This year, a usual year, there have been as of this 18tth day of the month some 1047 people slaughtered, and some 3-4 thousands injured worldwide. There have been none murdered by any other monotheistic religion in the name of their religion during this time, and in fact, There is no comparison to any other holy times of the other monotheistic religions during their holy times. There have been some 440,000 murdered and some 500,000 injured by Jihad just since 9/11, and some 280 millions homicided by muslims and Islam since Mohammed, and so declared by his Jihad. Sir…. you may be fooling these people but you have no shame, none, and you are at best an accomplis to this homicidism, and at worse… well I’ll leave it to you and others who have some sense of reason and logic to decide what your culpability actually is, as you seem to deny any and all responsibility to the tenets of Mohammed which you simply assert is mistranslation, when in fact, imams across the globe assert and suppor the jihad against ‘infidels’

    • simpleton1 says

      Jun 13, 2017 at 7:08 pm

      Well said ! !

      The BIg Lie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie
      “the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous”.
      abbreviated as the pithy saying: “Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.”.

      We all see how it works too darn well.
      The truth, those facts you make, plus many other points, must be made succinctly and frequently.

      We must be the ones, to be like dripping on a stone, to educate many others, even if just starting small, and thanks to Hugh in helping us to martial our thoughts, context and some strategies such as the print out. of the above opinion polls.

  5. TL says

    Jun 13, 2017 at 7:01 pm

    Yes, sounds like great fun. Notice also the prominence of quasi-feminine bodies among the hungry deepthinking nonmuslims who came for dindin. It seems that some things will never change. If not dinner exchanged for sex, then why not dinner traded for dawah?

    A quibble, however:

    (P1) ‘There is no compulsion in religion.’ (Koran 2:256)
    (P2) Hence, if there is compulsion in the Koran, then Islam is not a religion.
    (P3) There is compulsion in the Koran, e.g. jizyah (9:29)
    (C) Therefore, according to Islam, Islam is not a religion.

  6. abad says

    Jun 13, 2017 at 7:11 pm

    “Dinner and dialogue” can happen all across the nation from sea to shining sea and guess what, the attending Muslims will whitewash Islam and portray it as something it is not.

    I have said this before and will say it again:

    Muslims are not the best source to learn the truth about Islam from.

    • IanB says

      Jun 13, 2017 at 8:08 pm

      Ex-Muslims are.

      • Kay says

        Jun 15, 2017 at 1:10 am

        Good point

  7. mgoldberg says

    Jun 13, 2017 at 7:17 pm

    I pulled this off a post from someone, name RD Landes- and it’s his compilation so I’ll give him credit but it should be noted as part of the history of Jihad in modern times.

    In 1968, Robert Kennedy was shot and killed by a Muslim male./
    Kennedy was shot several times by the 22-year-old Palestinian
    Sirhan Sirhan.
    In 1972, at the Munich Olympics, Israeli athletes were kidnapped
    and massacred by Muslim males./ On the morning of September 5,
    Palestinian terrorists in ski masks ambushed the Israeli team.
    In 1972, a Pan Am 747 was hijacked and eventually diverted to
    Cairo where a fuse was lit on final approach. Shortly after landing, it
    was blown up by Muslim males./ Pan Am 73 hijacking, in which four
    terrorists with Libyan ties
    In 1973, a Pan Am 707 was destroyed in Rome – with 33 people
    killed – when it was attacked with grenades by Muslim males.
    In 1979, the United States Embassy in Iran was taken over by
    Muslim males.
    During the 1980s, a number of Americans were kidnapped in
    Lebanon by Muslim males.
    In 1983, the United States Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up
    by Muslim males.
    In 1985, the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked, and a 70-yearold
    American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his
    wheelchair by Muslim males.
    In 1985, TWA Flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a United
    States Navy diver – who was trying to rescue passengers – was
    murdered by Muslim males.
    In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by Muslim males.
    In 1993, the World Trade Center was bombed for the first time by
    Muslim males.
    In 1998, the United States embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were
    bombed by Muslim males.
    On 09/11/01, four airliners were hijacked. Two of the planes were
    used as missiles to take down the World Trade Centers. One plane
    crashed into the United States Pentagon, and the other plane was
    diverted and crashed by the passengers. Thousands of people
    were killed by Muslim males.
    In 2002, the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against
    Muslim males.
    In 2002, reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and beheaded by –
    you guessed it – a Muslim male. (Plus two other American
    journalists who had just recently been beheaded.)
    In 2013, the Boston Marathon bombing resulted in four innocent
    people, including a child, being killed and 264 other people injured
    by Muslim males.
    The Tel Aviv bus attack was a Muslim
    The Shoe Bomber was a Muslim
    The Beltway Snipers were Muslims
    The beheading of two Japanese hostages was a Muslim
    The Paris and Australia shooting was a Muslim
    The Fort Hood Shooter was a Muslim
    The underwear Bomber was a Muslim
    The USS Cole Bombers were Muslims
    The Madrid Train Bombers were Muslims
    The Bafi Nightclub Bombers were Muslims
    The London Subway Bombers were Muslims
    The Moscow Theatre Attackers were Muslims
    The Pan-Am flight #93 Bombers were Muslims
    The Air France Entebbe Hijackers were Muslims
    The Iranian Embassy Takeover, was by Muslims
    The Beirut U.S. Embassy bombers were Muslims
    The Libyan U.S. Embassy Attack was by Muslims
    The Buenos Aires Suicide Bombers were Muslims
    The Israeli Olympic Team Attackers were Muslims
    The Kenyan U.S, Embassy Bombers were Muslims
    The Saudi, Khobar Towers Bombers were Muslims
    The Beirut Marine Barracks bombers were Muslims
    The Besian Russian School Attackers were Muslims
    The first World Trade Center Bombers were Muslims
    The Bombay & Mumbai India Attackers were Muslims
    The Achille Lauro Cruise Ship Hijackers were Muslims
    The September 11th 2001 Airline Hijackers were Muslims
    Philippines – Moro Islamic Liberation Front guerrillas were involved
    in the killing of 49 Special Action Force and others.
    No, I really do not see a pattern here. So, to ensure we Americans
    never offend anyone – particularly fanatics intent on killing us –
    airport security screeners will no long be allowed to profile certain
    people.
    So, ask yourself: “Just how stupid are we?!?!”
    Consider this:
    Buddhists living with Hindus => No Problem
    Hindus living with Christians => No Problem
    Hindus living with Jews => No Problem
    Christians living with Shintos => No Problem
    Shintos living with Confucians => No Problem
    Confucians living with Baha’is => No Problem
    Baha’is living with Jews => No Problem
    Jews living with Atheists => No Problem
    Atheists living with Buddhists => No Problem
    Buddhists living with Sikhs => No Problem
    Sikhs living with Hindus => No Problem
    Hindus living with Baha’is => No Problem
    Baha’is living with Christians => No Problem
    Christians living with Jews => No Problem
    Jews living with Buddhists => No Problem
    Buddhists living with Shintos => No Problem
    Shintos living with Atheists => No Problem
    Atheists living with Confucians => No Problem
    Confucians living with Hindus => No Problem
    Muslims living with Hindus => Problems
    Muslims living with Buddhists => Problems
    Muslims living with Christians => Problems
    Muslims living with Jews => Problems
    Muslims living with Sikhs => Problems
    Muslims living with Baha’is => Problems
    Muslims living with Shintos => Problems
    Muslims living with Atheists = Problems
    MUSLIMS LIVING WITH MUSLIMS => MANY LARGE PROBLEMS
    THIS BRINGS US TO:
    They’re not happy in Gaza
    They’re not happy in Egypt
    They’re not happy in Libya
    They’re not happy in Morocco
    They’re not happy in Iran
    They’re not happy in Iraq
    They’re not happy in Yemen
    They’re not happy in Afghanistan
    They’re not happy in Pakistan
    They’re not happy in Syria
    They’re not happy in Lebanon
    They’re not happy in Nigeria
    They’re not happy in Kenya
    They’re not happy in Sudan
    So, where are they happy?
    They’re happy in Australia
    They’re happy in England
    They’re happy in Belgium
    They’re happy in France
    They’re happy in Italy
    They’re happy in Germany
    They’re happy in Sweden
    They’re happy in the USA & Canada
    They’re happy in Norway & India
    They’re happy in almost every country that is not Islamic!
    And whom do they blame?
    Not Islam … Not their leadership … Not themselves …
    THEY BLAME THE COUNTRIES THEY ARE HAPPY IN!
    And they want to CHANGE the countries they’re happy in.
    They want them to be like the countries they came from where they
    were unhappy.
    Seems rather peculiar to me!
    Islamic Organizations:
    Islamic Jihad: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
    ISIS: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
    Al-Qaeda: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
    Taliban: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
    Hamas: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
    Hezbollah: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
    Boko Haram: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
    Al-Nusra: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
    Abu Sayyaf: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
    Muslim Brotherhood: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
    Lashkar-e-Taiba: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
    Palestine Liberation Front: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
    Ansaru: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
    Jemaah Islamiyah: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
    Abdullah Azzam Brigades: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
    AND A MANY MORE!
    I am sure with these savages there will be more to come.
    Continuing, consider this …
    Can a good Muslim be a good American or Canadian?
    This question was forwarded to a friend who worked in Saudi
    Arabia
    for 20 years. The following is his reply:
    Theologically – no … Because his allegiance is to Allah.
    Religiously – no … Because no other religion is accepted by His
    Allah
    except Islam … (Quran, 2:256) (Koran)
    scripturally – no … Because his allegiance is to the five Pillars of
    Islam and the Quran.
    Geographically – no … Because his allegiance is to Mecca,
    to which he turns in prayer five times a day.
    Socially – no … Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to
    make friends with Christians or Jews …
    Politically – no … Because he must submit to the mullahs (spiritual
    leaders),
    who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America, the
    great Satan.
    Domestically – no … Because he is instructed to marry four Women
    and beat his wife when she disobeys him (Quran4:34)
    intellectually – no … Because he cannot accept the American
    Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes
    the Bible to be corrupt.
    Philosophically – no … Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran
    does not
    allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam
    cannot co-exist.
    Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

  8. Aloha Akbar says

    Jun 13, 2017 at 7:18 pm

    A Glorious Day At The Dialogue

    Thelma: Welcome to our Muslim Brethren. We are so happy to have you in our country Imam O’marty

    Omar: You filthy infidel, It’s Imam OMAR. ALLAH AKBAAAR… (stab stab stab)

    Elizabeth: Hello there Imam… er… Omar? Welcome to you all. Sorry about all the blood on the table. Thelma R.I.P. will be severely chastised at her eulogy for her Islamophobic performance..
    Let me assure you she does not represent any of the views of We The American People.

    Omar: Yes, I was completely offended by her thrusting her unclean exposed body right where my sharp knife was placed.

    Elizabeth: moving on… can I interest you in some delicious Traditional American cuisine? It’s halal of course.

    Omar: What is it you disgusting woman?

    Elizabeth: Traditional Hotdogs & root beer.

    Omar: Dogs???? ALLAH AKBAAAR… (stab stab stab)

    Wendy: Terribly sorry for all the offence again Imam Omar. I’ll have this mess cleaned up for you. Bradley, call a few of your, ugh, male friends & come & clean up all this blood, RIGHT NOW you male chauvinist!

    Omar: Is this how you American women talk to your men folk?

    Wendy: Of course. They were de-masculinized many years ago.

    Omar: ALLAH AKBAAAR… (stab stab stab)

    Susan: Righto now. Shall we begin with the dialogue Omar Imam… I mean Imam Omar?

    Omar: ALLAH AKBAAAR… (stab stab stab)

    Therese: er, yes.. dialogue… do you think Muslims & the rest of the world can all get along peacefully?

    Omar: ALLAH AK…. oh sorry. Well Therese, let me just say, you have lovely hairy armpits. They remind me of my favourite goat. Her name is Barry.

    Therese: Why thankyou.. I think. But I’m *ahem*already married, to Stephanie.

    Omar: ALLAH AKBAAAR… (stab stab stab)

    Hillary: Why helloooo.. big boy…

    Omar: ALLAH AKBAAAR… (stab stab stab)

    Kendall: ……..

    Omar: ALLAH AKBAAAR… (stab stab stab)

    Omar: Next?

    CNN Reporter: Hello Sir, You’re Highness, Overlord, Grand Excellence, Imam Omar. I’d like to say that this evening has been such a huge success.
    I’ve managed to edit the whole thing to show what a gracious guest you’ve been & how the White, Islamophobic, Right winged, Bourgeois, Bigoted, Racist, Communist Americans have mistreated you from the beginning.
    May I bow down & offer you my neck as a symbol of subservience to the Religion Of Peace? (TM)

    Omar: ALLAH AKBAAAR… (stab stab stab)

    Later at home:

    Mrs Omar: *muffled unintelligible sound from behind thick heavy head covering* – Translated: ” How was your day today Honey?”

    Omar: Terrible day. I think I shall have to call the guys at CAIR & sue somebody. Now where is my Barry?

  9. saturnine says

    Jun 13, 2017 at 11:06 pm

    The similarities between things is the least interesting aspect to discuss; information is found in the differences.

    If Islam and Christianity are essentially the same, Imam Shaheed, what is the point of Islam?

    If Islam and Christianity are essentially the same, Imam Shaheed, why not become a Christian?

    Etc.

    • dumbledoresarmy says

      Jun 15, 2017 at 12:02 am

      Exactly.

      It makes all the difference in the world, between Islam and Judaism, that Islam *rewrites* one of *the* pivotal accounts in the Pentateuch, the offering of Isaac by Abraham, on Mt Moriah, and claims instead that ‘Ibrahim’ offered “Ismail” (the Islamicised form of the name of Ishmael, Abraham’s son by Hagar).

      And it makes all the difference in the world, between Islam and Christianity, that Muslims view “Isa’ as nothing but a fairly minor ‘prophet’, whereas Christians worship Jesus of Nazareth as the Son of the Living God. And that Muslims claim that ‘Isa’ was NOT crucified, whereas the Christians state that Jesus – the Jewish Yehoshuah – *was* crucified, dead, and buried (and then affirm that he was raised from the dead and is now the risen and ascended Lord, seated at the right hand of God the Father in heaven.

      Anyone going along to one of these dawa-and-deception fests ought to take, tucked in their back pocket or handbag, a copy of the Barnabas Fund booklet, “Is the Muslim ‘Isa’ the Biblical Jesus?”, having first read and reread it, and highlighted and underlined the most salient points, and committed such to memory. With copies of the Quran and the New Testament, suitably bookmarked, also kept handy. Then, when and if the subject of “Isa” comes up, they will be in a position to make all the glaring *differernces* – the antitheses – visible. And one does not even have to be a Christian in order to do this; just a person who does not want the Muslms to get away with making a blatantly false claim.

      The concocters of Islam didn’t just *plagiarise* some Biblical – whether Jewish or Christian – persons and stories. Nor did they innocently garble them up because of mishearing or misremembering something they were told about them. No; the differences are too striking, and too deadly, to be the result of mere ignorance or accident. It’s deliberate. The stolen materials are travestied and inverted, stripped of their original meaning. Finding vaguely familiar but horribly distorted and inverted Biblical materials in the Islamic texts is, for a Christian or a Jew, rather like finding your mother or your sister in the gutter, after she’s been kidnapped and raped and forced to work as a whore.

      Further: a point that can be made – and you don’t have to be a believing Christian, or observant Jew – to make it, just someone who cares about historical fact – is that there is not a *shred* of archaeological or manuscript evidence, from the pre-Islamic period – anywhere between 3000 BC and 600 AD – for the Muslim claim that *their* ‘Ibrahim’ and *their* ‘Isa’ are the *real* thing and that the differences between the stories in the Islamic texts and the stories in the Jewish and Christian canonical texts, is due to.. Jews and Christians having deliberately messed up the wonderful consistent-with-Islam originals.

      Prior to Islam coming along there is NO evidence for any ‘alternative version’ of the Aqedah, Abraham’s offering of his son, in which Ishmael, not Isaac, was the offering. NONE whatsoever. It is very plain that the Muslims have simply – rewritten the story, with calculated malice, and then are trying to pass off *their* drastically rewritten version as, forsooth, the *orgiinal*!! It’s mind-bending.

      Similarly, Jews and Christians – and Tacitus the pagan historian – agree solidly that somebody called Jesus was crucified in Judea by the Romans. What kind of person he was, and what happened after that, they disagree about; but *that* a crucifixion took place, they are agreed. Then some 600 years later along come the Muslims, change the name to ‘Isa’ (which is not even, linguistically, convincing as an ‘Arabised’ reflex of the original name, Yehoshuah/ Yah’shuah – the proper Arabised form would be something like ‘Yasu’), and right out of the blue, flatly deny **historic fact**.
      ‘
      On the one occasion I went to a Mosque ‘open day’, the presenter, giving his spiel, made the mistake of letting it be known that mulsms don’t believe that ‘Isa’ was crucified. I could not let that stand. I stood up and said, “That’s not true. Jesus *was* crucified. Historical fact.”

      Upset the applecart rather, that did.

  10. newUser says

    Jun 13, 2017 at 11:59 pm

    I wouldn’t waste my time eating their food. It is enough to study the history of the Balkans to know that islam is evil. The ones that buy the islamophobia term are liars, ignorant or uneducated on the subject.

    • dumbledoresarmy says

      Jun 15, 2017 at 5:06 am

      “It is enough to study the history of the Balkans to know that islam is evil.”

      Or the history of the 1200 years of Muslim oppression and abuse of the indigenous Copts, in Egypt.

      Or the history of Muslim depredations in the south of Russia.

      Or the history of India, from the 8th century AD to the 18th, most particularly – as recounted by non-dhimmi historians such as K S Lal.

      Or the history of the 1200-year-long ruinous activities of Muslim slave-raiders and imperialists in Africa – summed up by one Tidiana N’diaye as “Le Genocide Voile” (“the Veiled Genocide).

  11. Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY) says

    Jun 14, 2017 at 1:39 am

    I have never attended one of these neighborly Islamic tutorial sessions (I never get advanced notice), but here is a line of questioning I would like to pursue at one of these affairs. I do not know the answers. If anyone asks about this at a dinner-and-dialog event, please report the answers.

    The founder of Islam was a man named Muhammad, and Muslims who mention his name often say “peace be upon him”, abbreviated to “(pbuh)”, from which the word “poobah” must have come. Dear Imam, please excuse a personal question: Is peace upon you, right now? How can I determine whether peace is upon me? What does it mean for peace to be upon someone?

    Despite centuries of Muslim prayers for Muhammad that “peace be upon him”, there is still no peace upon him (otherwise these “peace be upon him” prayers could be dispensed with). Why? Why is Allah being so mean to Muhammad as to withhold peace from being upon him? Why have the centuries of prayer by Muslims been so ineffective? Might prayers by non-Muslims be more effective? Should non-Muslims start praying that peace be upon Muhammad, to help out or prayer-challenged Muslim brethren?

    • somehistory says

      Jun 14, 2017 at 1:45 pm

      Good question. I doubt any of them have been asked, and if so, they have no real answer. May be that they just show their true inner anger…the inner “struggle” coming out.

    • Manny says

      Jun 14, 2017 at 5:08 pm

      Oh is that what pbuh means. I thought it was piss be upon him.

  12. Linnte says

    Jun 14, 2017 at 4:22 am

    DISGUSTING taquiyya. It infuriates me!

    • dumbledoresarmy says

      Jun 15, 2017 at 12:05 am

      Of course, 90 percent of what you read in the above article is *Hugh*’s deadly-accurate *representation* of how taqiyya works. I suspect he’s drawing on personal experience.

  13. unoriginal username says

    Jun 14, 2017 at 8:15 am

    I have never seen a group, other than moslems, who has to continually tell the public how not-murdery they are . Christians don’t have to have these sort of meet and greets. Neither do Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, etc.

    They are unable to hide the truth of their death cult so they are trying to fool those kuffar who prefer to remain blind to the truth.

  14. mgoldberg says

    Jun 14, 2017 at 10:39 am

    I wonder when we’ll get to hear someone ask the muslim presenters, ‘Sir, after all the serial homicidism worldwide, all the tortured, beheaded, all those abused and oppressed by Islam, in the name of Jihadist muslims, do you not have any shame??
    Do no in the final analysis have not the slightest sense of shame, at the culpability of Islam, and it’s tenets which have produced so much serial homicidism, across the globe, whilst you engage in utter denial of that culpability, and reduce it to misunderstood translations of arabic, when in fact imams and Jihadists across the globe affirm the Jihadist commands that you are here denying.

  15. Grendel's Mother says

    Jun 14, 2017 at 1:30 pm

    The condescension by Shaheed disgusted me. You know when you see the words “dialogue with muslims” you’re going to be on the business end of a load of lying crapola. I suppose “To Serve Man” was not a cookbook either. Just a misunderstanding.

  16. KnightsTemplar says

    Jun 14, 2017 at 2:32 pm

    Hey Hugh, how about “Dinner, Dialogue and Deception”?

  17. Manny says

    Jun 14, 2017 at 5:04 pm

    This imam or whatever he is has the voice of Satan, twisting all logic and facts into lies. Don’t believe a word he says.

  18. dumbledoresarmy says

    Jun 14, 2017 at 11:12 pm

    Commenters need to bear in mind that much of Hugh’s article is intended to tell us not what the imam at this *particular* PR-session told people, or how he *might* have responded to any inquisitive and informed kuffar asking awkward questions, but to give a generic description of the *kinds* of answers that such dawa-artists do routinely give when questioned. Much of the article is NOT intended as a description of whatever *did* happen, but a presentation of the kind of thing that can and does happen, at such gatherings.

    I do not know how many such Events Hugh Fitzgerald has himself attended, in person, nor, perhaps, how many one-on-one conversations he may have had with similar Mohammedan spin-doctors. But I wouldn’t be surprised if the answer is – quite a few.

    Hugh is putting us on our guard. He is both *encouraging* Jihadwatchers to go along to Events of this sort, to inject a dissenting voice into proceedings, to ask the hard-ball questions; but he is also warning such jihadwatchers that they will need to be *very* well-prepared, that they will be up against master shapeshifters and sophists who have a glib ‘answer’ (or, rather, evasion) for everything.

    • Linnte says

      Jun 15, 2017 at 12:27 am

      Well said Dumbledore! I’d give my eye teeth to be able to attend such a gathering.

    • Hugh Fitzgerald says

      Jun 15, 2017 at 8:46 am

      Thank you , DDA.

  19. dumbledoresarmy says

    Jun 15, 2017 at 4:53 am

    I clicked on the link and read the original article in situ.

    *Then* I read the Comments.

    There are only four, so far. And all four are by Islamoaware persons; for all I know, they might be jihadwatch readers.

    Perhaps jihadwatchers here present should hop on over to “The State” at that particular article – Comments still appear to be open – and back up those who have already commented.

    If the article ends up with a couple of hundred Comments – with *lots* of verbatim quotations from Islamically-approved translations of the Quran such as are handed out by dawa-artists, and from the Sira and the authentic Hadiths, and maybe some stuff from Reliance of the Traveller, etc – then its function as disinformation will be pretty thoroughly undermined.

  20. Terry says

    Jun 15, 2017 at 10:17 am

    “And I’d be more than happy to show you what, though not stated directly, is clearly understood by Muslims, which is that the verse is directed at everyone who is exposed to the truth but rejects it. They can be Muslims or non-Muslims.”

    What specific truth makes me the vilest of creatures if i reject it?

  21. Valkyrie Ziege says

    Jun 17, 2017 at 7:12 pm

    ; Bull-shit is only of value in a compost-pile.

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