How interesting that this couple sees Islam as a “religion of war,” the same words that jihadi Shamim Ahmed used. Those who insist that this is a misunderstanding of Islam propagated by greasy Islamophobes have yet to explain why this supposed misunderstanding is so widespread, even among Muslims.
“‘The Quran states that a woman is half a man’: Why an Australian Muslim couple turned their backs on Islam because it is a ‘religion of war’ riddled with ‘venomous misogyny,'” by Bryant Hevesi, Daily Mail Australia, June 17, 2017 (thanks to Blazing Cat Fur):
A couple who both grew up as Muslims in Pakistan have told why they turned their backs on Islam.
Sami Shah and Ishma Alvi, who became Australian citizens in January and live in Melbourne with their young daughter, said extremism, sexism and misogyny were key reasons why they opted out of the religion.
The couple also explained the reasons for their transition by citing passages from the Quran, which Mr Shah has described as ‘maddening as a text’.
An edited extract from Mr Shah’s latest book, The Islamic Republic of Australia, which details the move from Muslim to non-Muslim was published in The Weekend Australian magazine on Saturday.
Mr Shah said for Muslims to turn their backs on Islam, the controversial move can be punishable by death but he was happy to now be living openly as an atheist.
While he grew up in Pakistan, a Muslim country, he found himself gradually turning away from Islam over time, angered by violent attacks committed by extremists in the name of religion.
‘What stood out for me wasn’t just the mass murder and carnage initiated by the extremists but also their religious justification for it,’ Mr Shah said.
‘The religion I had been told my entire life was a religion of peace – an argument I myself had propagated when confronted with Islam’s critics while studying in America – was comfortably being used as a religion of war.’
Mr Shah said he was happy to now be living in Australia where he did not have his daily life heavily influenced by Islam and for his daughter to have the same freedoms and he enjoys.
Ms Alvi, a psychologist, said she believed Islam was not female-positive, a notion she first came to when she was aged 17.
‘I started seeing Islam as swinging between benevolent sexism [if there is such a thing] and venomous misogyny,’ she said….
marina says
Brave couple. They have chosen the righteous path. So sad that the western leaders cannot see what these people saw in islam. It is is a violent religion.
JIMJFOX says
As an atheist, I can assure you atheism is NOT a ‘righteous path’!
What a great example of free thinking and moral courage this couple shows us.
Cat says
I just think using “righteous” is a way of saying that you are a really good and fair person, nothing to do with any religious connotation. Doesn’t everyone (decent) want to be good to others, a kindly, considerate, sympathetic person?
Elisha says
LOL!! The problem is that naturalism CANNOT accept free will, everything is just atoms moving in a determined path. If naturalism is true, then you didn’t choose to write your post down, events prior to you typing caused you to type, not your own will. If you believe we do have free will, then you believe that naturalism to be false, thus super-naturalism is true. This means you believe that your will caused certain atoms to move in a different path that they wouldn’t have otherwise. Free will is a big problem for naturalist. You to step outside of your confusional delusion to determine truths and logic.
God bless.
carpediadem says
Doesn’t stop Sami Shah being proPalestinian though.
JIMJFOX says
Don’t be lazy- give us a link!
mortimer says
I pray Sami Shah and Ishma Alvi will be safe. I admire their bravery and dedication to helping others by raising consciousness.
There are likely thousands of others who are dead quiet about their apostasy and barely show any sign of having dropped Islam completely.
The only way to stop JIHAD-TERRORISM against the dirty kufaar is to help people to leave Islam. This process is called “ABSOLUTE DEPROGRAMMING”.
Governments could end the terror problem by using ABSOLUTE DEPROGRAMMING on all Muslims.
t. says
I will also pray for this brave couple to be safe.
DAI says
Think of your own before others. They still are likely to dislike us kuffar
Savvy Kafir says
Why would they dislike “us kuffar” if they’ve abandoned Islam? That seems pretty unlikely.
JIMJFOX says
And your evidence IS????
Peter Buckley says
“There are likely thousands of others who are dead quiet about their apostasy and barely show any sign of having dropped Islam completely.”
Indeed. It always creases me up when someone claims there are x million muslims in xxxxxx,.
The fact is in all these “communities”, there are a whole load of apostates:
“We do weekly meet-ups, we take care of each other. This is not even the tip of the iceberg. It’s a couple of ice cubes on top of the iceberg……..He estimated that there may be around 10,000 agnostics among London’s Muslim community of 600,000.”
http://www.therakyatpost.com/world/2014/11/20/muslim-apostates-come-hiding/
Rufolino says
It may be true that many Moslems have dropped quietly out of their religion -but the consciousness of Islam will no doubt still be there. In addition there are many more, who are “moderate Moslems”.
When the inevitable demographics mean than Islam has reached a position of real power in European states and attempts to impose Sharia Law on the entire population, on whose side will all these quietly “moderate” Moslems be on ??
Imnokuffar1234 says
Indeed
Peter Buckley says
“The inevitable demographics”.
I have been hearing this for the last 15 years. It is based on fear and has no basis in fact:
http://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles/2008/muslimsineurope.aspx
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3297038,00.html
http://theweeklynumber.com/1/post/2013/12/muslims-are-having-fewer-children-than-you-might-think.html
All you’re doing is what many JW readers seem to do: you’re projecting your own fears into a false reality.
If the “demographics” argument were true, Israel and India would have been swallowed up long ago. It ain’t happened, and it ain’t gonna happen.
Debi Brand says
Amen, m-t, amen.
And I too, pray for these brave souls.
Arthur says
Agreed.
I bet Islam could be eradicated wtihin a couple of generations if there was a concerted effort to educate everyone openly on the truth about it and make it widely known that apostates are protected and free to leave the cult. If the left put as much effort into demonizing this misogynistic, intolerant, sadistic, violent, and oppressive cult as they do fighting “islamophobia”, we might see massive defections and the isolation of the hateful imams and their deranged zealots.
Can you imagine what a wonderful and interesting place the Middle East would be if Islam were just a historical topic? Islam is almost the anti-culture: it erases all prior history and insists on uniformity and adherence to a very limited, proscribed set of permissible activities which cannot grow or change.
JIMJFOX says
Perfectly stated, Arthur.
Peter Buckley says
“There are likely thousands of others who are dead quiet about their apostasy …..”
According to what muslims themselves say publicly, the figure is MILLIONS in “recent years”:
3 million in Egypt:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-24992270
5% in Saudi:
http://www.salon.com/2014/06/12/atheism_explodes_in_saudi_arabia_where_just_talking_about_atheism_is_illegal_partner/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/23/a-surprising-map-of-where-the-worlds-atheists-live/?utm_term=.ca1c8db3d770
11% in Iraq:
https://www.juancole.com/2014/02/death-iraqis-exists.html
The percentages are even bigger in the West, to the extent that devout muslims are desperately trying to stem the flow:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbFc8zhLwyw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APVCAxF4C8Q&t=44s
No more of this “just a few/trickle” nonsense. It’s a veritable tsunami that cannot be stopped. Soon you won’t be calling people who publicly leave the faith “brave”, because it will be not be “unusual”-it will be “normal” and even “expected”. And when that happens, the myth of Islam is dead, and you may even see a small number of devout muslims (“Islamists”) returning “home” because they will be extremely uncomfortable having to face apostasy on a daily basis.
Peter Buckley says
Sharia Law acts as a kind of protective shell for the religion of Islam. It is only by silencing critics of Islam itself through “blasphemy, laws” and silencing apostates through threats, exile or death, that Islam has survived:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDT5YH9bGmI
What we are witnessing for the first time in 1400 years are large numbers of muslims forced to live under secular laws without Sharia protection. And the result is predictable: a tsunami of apostasy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbFc8zhLwyw&t=234s
Once the number of apostates, and their offspring, reaches a certain level, particularly when these people gain political influence, Islam is exposed and doomed. It may even be diificult for some of the more devout muslims (“Islamists”) to even live in a society where they have to face apostasy on a regular basis. It wouldn’t surprise me to see a small trickle heading back “home” in order to (try to) save the religion.
Ironically, what the Mail has done, probably without knowing it, is what all Western countries should do: allow and encourage apostates to explain WHY they are leaving the religion. It has a similar effect on the ummah as garlic or the cross to Dracula…………
newUser says
The thing is that the Western world doesn’t know the true story of Dracula. He fought the Turks. Whatever he did to them was whatever they did to kuffar. But it is different when a non-muslim does it.
JIMJFOX says
Oh, shut up! Dracula is both irrelevant and imaginary.
Savvy Kafir says
I think NewUser is referring to Vlad Dracul, the inspiration for Dracula. He was a very determined foe of Turkish/Muslim invaders in the 15th Century.
Savvy Kafir says
Peter, I like the picture you’re painting, and I hope it might be true; but it seems like more Muslims in the West are getting “radicalized” than are leaving the faith.
I definitely agree that we should give all the encouragement and support we can to apostates from Islam. There’s no reforming Islam, so apostasy is the only option that makes sense for any Muslim who values freedom and human rights.
Donald R Laster Jr says
Shar’iah law is used as shield for all of what the Islamics do. Its theocracy requires the image of religion to shield people from looking closer at what Islam is – a governmental system dedicated to invasion and occupation.
Kessler says
Yes, Sharia has the purpose to protect Islam from criticism and scrutiny, but also to prepare muslims to spread their supremacist religion in Dar al Harb.
Unfortunately, what we are witnessing is the deconstruction of Western societies in order to accommodate Islam. Muslim youth are turning their backs to secularism and embrace Islam proper. The Islamic revival is in full swing around the world and Western societies are in full surrender mode. A few apostates are not going to turn the tide.
Donald R Laster Jr says
And “Progressives” have worked hard to undermined education and make it into indoctrination. Which is one reason why Islamics have been able to be successful over the last 30 years or so. People from the 600s to the 1950s for the most part understood and knew what Islam was really about. They knew its history.
simpleton1 says
“give all the encouragement and support we can to apostates from Islam”.
We must remain strong in our Western culture and application of our laws,
No agreement to any part of sharia law, even if presented as being benign.
As Osama bin laden points out that the “people will side with the strong horse”.
So keep our horse, strong, fit and healthy, by knowing ourselves
Great thanks to muslims who decide to apostatize and become active ex muslims.
Take care and best wishes in your new freedoms.
Kay says
What a darling couple! May they be heard and may God protect them.
t. says
In your above comment, it should be “without Sharia’s threat” rather than “without Sharia protection”.
peter says
Note none of the popular media outlets will even mention it ,let alone covering it .It will be an act of Islamophobia. Will friends like this who needs an enemy!
JIMJFOX says
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4612724/Why-Australian-Muslim-couple-turned-backs-Islam.html#ixzz4kFxQoted
Can’t you READ???
don vito says
The text is “madding”, worry lebel, for your sanity is being eroded. itace, you have little sanity left, by believing in “madding” texts.
JIMJFOX says
Can you write this again- in ENGLISH, this time?
The koran is indeed maddening, meaning driving one to distraction, infuriating;
the Thomas Hardy term ‘madding’ means
“acting in a frenzied manner —usually used in the phrase madding crowd to
denote especially the crowded world of human activity and strife”
The rest of your post is utter gibberish.
don vito says
you would need to know of lebel and of itace to make the connection. Many here know some do not. Sorry for you, that you can”t understand the connection. Hope you read up JimJFox and become more aware.
Peter Buckley says
Their story:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/life/weekend-australian-magazine/faith-no-more/news-story/97dc9c6ba0127a1e3b576fd2c4534877?utm_content=SocialFlow&utm_campaign=EditorialSF&utm_source=TheAustralian&utm_medium=Twitter
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
Anybody making book on their life spans now? I say that she is murdered first, it’s a Moslem thing.
JIMJFOX says
They should get police protection. Oh, wait- that would possibly mean relocating them to Punchbowl…
Guest says
A man who genuinely loves his family
Benedict says
“The Quran states that a woman is half a man” –
That almost matches the nonsense we find in the West, where a man can be half a woman – and even a whole woman if he feels like it.
carpediadem says
Exactly. Isn’t freedom to be who you want to be simply awful? How you must suffer when OTHER people fix THEIR own lives without reference to what YOU want.
Benedict says
That’s not my concern here. If people want to deconstruct their sex and their lives, there is probably not much I can do about it. But when society demands that I participate in the nonsense – and that’s where we are headed, when we are required to use silly pronouns and people’s professional lives are ruined, if they refuse to make weddings-cakes for same-sex couples and so on – my freedom is at stake.
“All the World’s a Stage”, but if I don’t like the comedy or the tragedy people perform in, don’t expect me to pay tribute.
Ben Shapiro once again did very well here: https://youtu.be/YgQy70_LPS4
Donald R Laster Jr says
Good description of the core problems we are facing today.
Donald R Laster Jr says
I hope they stay safe and take the time to learn. Unfortunately, they will be targeted by Islamics for death and their child[ren] targeted as well. May they also continue to reach out to learn in all areas of life.
Mockingjay says
“Muslim couple leaves Islam because ( they feel ) it’s a “religion of war” ( and) full of “venomous misogyny.”
– How incredibly islamophobic of them.
– It just goes to show that if muslims spend too much time in a Western society, they too might eventually get infected with this terrible affliction of the mind…tsk tsk tsk.
Lon Spector says
Count your breaths.
Stan Lee says
Courageous decision on the part of the couple. Thankfully, they have relocated to Australia, they could not possibly have remained in Pakistan under their circumstances. Of course Islam IS a religion of war, it is certainly not a religion of peace, not even for its ardent followers if any of them stumble for a moment in acceptance of Islamic directives.
Mark says
Dear Stan:
You think they’re safe in Australia? Right – those two now have a target on their backs.
I’d suggest they move to a submarine.
jewdog says
They are obviously very intelligent and decent people – making them overqualified to be Muslim. If Islam could advertise in the paper, the ad might look like this:
“Do you want to feel superior to your friends without actually achieving anything? Do you think women are inferior, Jews are satanic, and Christians are Crusader scum? Do you hate dogs and want to hurt them, and other cuddly animals? Could you imagine yourself killing people because they are a different religion, even if you die in the process? Do you fantasize about ruling the world, like Adolph Hitler, a man you admire? Do you want to be told what to think about everything and not have to think for yourself? Then try Islam.”
lynn says
I would include in the advertisement….When you imagine killing people and die in the attempt. Don’t worry, you will get an immediate entrance to paradise where you will have an eternal hard-on and 72 virgins to screw endlessly…. That’s the epitome of islamic reward.. a celestial brothel.. Sounds like an adolescent male’s wet dream
Sarah says
Well done and good for them. They’re not safe though. The Muslim community will hate them and want to target them for being apostates. The Pakistani community – well we all know they’ve proven how much they love a bit of honour killing – so these two and their daughter would be wise to up and move to somewhere where there are not significant enclaves festering – such as Westbury in Tasmania or Blackall in Queensland.
I strongly believe that the number of silent apostates within Islam is far higher than it is given credit for. There will be so many Muslims out there who for varying reasons, do not want to believe in Islam and who feel trapped by oppressive cultural and religious norms. Look at this couple. They only just made citizenship this year- they haven’t been here that long in the grand scheme of things – the first thing they do once considering themselves safe enough to do so, is to dump the festering rot of Islam from their lives.
Aloha Akbar says
It only takes one simple-minded muslim to read about this couple & then become enraged to the point that he simply MUST act on behalf of allah the galah. He will then stop at nothing to track them down & exact righteous revenge.
Or perhaps a (peaceful moderate) imam will incite a simple-minded follower to do the good deed.
Either way, they’ll be looking over their shoulders for quite a while.
davej says
I too have a sense that there are a significant percentage of Muslims who have serious doubts and reservations about Islam, particularly now that the insanity of jihadists is being brought into sharp relief by their increasingly sadistic attacks.
As much of the West is learning about this mad ideology and rejecting it for good reason it puts the so-called moderates in a more untenable position. They cannot continue to proclaim it to be a “Religion of Peace” when so many of their coreligionists are more candidly referring to it as the Religion of War.
Plus who really wants to be regarded by their neighbors as backward, prejudiced and potentially dangerous? More examples of intelligent Muslims leaving Islam may help break the dam of fear and ignorance that holds so many back from freedom.
We can only hope so and encourage apostasy with our support and understanding.
It is essentially an “Emperor wearing no clothes” moment.
Donald R Laster Jr says
This is why people need to talk about the what Islam is and promotes, as well as what Mohammad was really like.
Matthieu Baudin says
Personal courage and integrity from these two and to cap it off they publicly engage with their adopted Australian community to protect it from going down the slippery slope of appeasement to Islamic submission and violence. Could you possibly find higher quality people as immigrants and citizens than this couple?
simpleton1 says
“Personal courage and integrity from these two”
You are so right and to many of us, they actively engaged at a war front, miles ahead of where many of us are at.
Truly inspirational, and may people who are near them, also be secure, and able to protect them from any back lash.
All of society need to to protect their backs, for all apostates and active ex muslims.
Lawrence says
Muslim apostates are the most courageous people on the planet. Interesting that the Daily Mail chose to give them a voice, breaking rank.
tim gallagher says
Bravo to these people for leaving Islam. I wish everyone would pack up and leave barbaric Islam behind. Islam’s attitude towards every aspect of life from women to gays and especially towards non-Muslims makes it fit only for knuckle-dragging Neanderthals. So, bravo to anyone who deserts it. I hope the commenters above are right that large numbers of Muslims are full of doubts and are lukewarm in their Islamic faith. Above all, Islam is a danger to all non-Muslims, so the main thing is to shut Muslims out of all non-Muslim countries for our protection. And these Muslims who leave Islam, such as Nonie Darwish, Wafa Sultan and Ayaan Hirsi Ali and this couple, can tell people the truth about Islam’s nature and help counter the garbage we are fed by apologists for Islam.
Manny says
I would have preferred they become Christian but anything away from Islam is a good start. I hope they speak out to the rest of the Muslim community. May they find the true Light some day.
Salome says
If you read the whole thing you’ll see that he became horrified when their daughter, whom they sent to a Catholic school, came home talking about Jesus. So he got Granny in Pakistan to teach her about Mohammed and now she has no religion.
JIMJFOX says
Outstanding! These ex muslims are more intelligent than most Americans, then?
tgusa says
Although they will never be safe from the religion of pieces they will be much safer in Australia than they would be in their country of origin, Pakistan. In Australia they are blessed to have pretty much most Australians having their backs. That is important because we in the west need these people in the fight against islamism. The enemy knows this.
In Pakistan pretty much everyone would be calling for their horrific death.
He is a good and responsible man who cares about his wife and daughter. In the west he will fit right in among most of us.
Donald R Laster Jr says
They will be targeted by the Islamics where ever they happen to be. A woman left Islam here (in US) and she and her husband ended up dead. Supposedly the husband went crazy and kill his wife and himself. I suspect what really happened is that her family killed them both and made it look like the husband did it. And unfortunately, their young child is in the hands of her family.
FYI says
Some folk who leave islam might become atheists or humanists:that’s fine.
If you are fed up with religious dogma then it would make no sense to spend your life involved in some other religion.Why would you?You can be a decent,moral person without being part of any religion:you do not need a religion to be a good person.Indeed some of the most evil people in the world today are religious zealots.
Joining another religion will not necessarily solve anything and you may be disappointed by that.
Some other folk who leave islam and who wish to continue to believe in God are certainly free to do so.However,they need to completely re-evaluate their understanding of God:the Islamic allah is NOT the same as the Biblical or Judeo-Christian version.
Having spent most of my life as an indifferent atheist(..God knows..).. I now believe that the Two Chief Commandments (found both in Judaism and Christianity)are the key to understanding God:God is NOT a tyrant!
I don’t belong to any church(I have no time for pope francis..)and I believe religious hierarchies are appaling.
I believe,having read both the Bible and the koran that the Biblical version is correct because of the following:-
1)The Two Chief Commandments(which reveal God to be a God of Love) are found in both Judaism and Christianity.
They are MISSING in islam,with the result that we have God misrepresented as a tyrant in the koran)
2)God’s official laws are the Ten commandments.
These are the Laws of the Bible.
The koranic teachings are at odds with them.
Compare God’s laws regarding adultery,murder,lying,stealing etc.
What does God teach?
God teaches in His commandments that these are all WRONG and He does not equivocate(any equivocations are certainly man-made:holy men always twist His laws to suit themselves!)
Now compare with allah’s teachings:allah has no problem with adultery(with slave girls),mass murder of infidels,stealing,polygamy,lying…
If allah disagrees or equivocates in any way in regards to the Original Commandments of God(and allah does in the koran)then..
allah is NOT the same as God.
allah is in conflict with God.
Just look at the original commandments listing.
This is God’s law.
If you are a muslim you should obey these laws.If you are a morally good person-you will.
The problem with islam is that allah doesn’t agree with God’s laws.
The other problem is the Sunnah of muhammed:That’s not someone you should follow!!
Obey God’s commandments-not allah’s/muhammed’s wrong teachings.
David says
So they have made their decision public? Shall we add their names to the deadpool?
Nigel GFF says
“…While he grew up in Pakistan, a Muslim country, he found himself gradually turning away from Islam over time, angered by violent attacks committed by extremists in the name of religion…”
‘Committed by extremists’. Here we part company Mr Shah. You and your wife are brave but neglect to comment on mainstream, ‘peace loving’, but violent, Islam (I have not read Mr Shah’s opus). The maddening text is replete with calls to arms and extremism is not a sine qua non for spilling the blood of the kufir.
Watch your back Mr & Mrs and that of your children.
UNCLE VLADDI says
And you can bet that whenever any/all such ex-muslims leave islam and then get wholly traceable and conclusive evidence of the death-threats left by their neighbors on their home answering machines, you can be sure the racist liberal cops will at most only chastise them, and any racist liberal prosecutors will refuse to prosecute due to the sheer volume of such “nuisances,” thus skewing the arrest and conviction statistics away from islam and muslims, too! They will both treat it as an “ethnic social-work” problem of “cultural misunderstandings,” never as a crime!
ibrahim itace muhammed says
All of them are hell forever.
ibrahim itace muhammed says
it is part of mithraist Christian evangelical propaganda to get more satanic worshipers to go to hell together
Steve Brown says
Double Whammy. Blasphemy and Apostasy. They were dumb or brave to make this public.
Susette says
Only because they were muslim is this newsworthy. What other religion on earth bans leaving your religion? The religion you choose to practice, or not practice, is a private, personal choice to make. You are not born religious…you are indoctrinated into the belief system of your family.
Frankly, I’m sick and tired of everything being muslim-this and muslim-that. No other group of people is known by their religious identity first. How many Catholic-Americans, and Hindu-Americans, and Scientology-Americans describe themselves as such? Wouldn’t we be better off if we ignored their religion and all their perceived slights that “non-muslims” have perpetrated upon them? There I go again…when has anyone ever been called a non-Catholic, or a non-Hindu or a non-Scientologist??? Try replacing “non-muslims” with “everyone else”… I don’t ever want the word “muslim” to describe myself in any way, including as a “non.”
victor says
Everyone is an Atheist till the plane starts shaking 😛