Patricia Braemer, a spokeswoman for the Berlin police, said: “Anyone coming here ought to know and respect the country’s customs.”
She was referring to Nazi symbols. When it comes to Muslims and Islam, it’s a very different story in Germany:
Cologne police cover for Muslim migrants: Finger penetration “not rape”
Germany: New Year’s Eve Muslim migrant sex attacks wiped from police records
German press deliberately covering up Muslim identity of attackers in rape crisis
Muslim group says Germany must ban alcohol if they want to prevent further sex attacks
“Chinese tourists learn that the Nazi salute remains a serious matter in Germany,” by Erik Kirschbaum, Los Angeles Times, August 6, 2017:
Two Chinese tourists discovered the hard way that giving the outlawed “Hitlergruss” — or Nazi salute — in front of the Reichstag building in Berlin is no laughing matter in Germany.
The two men, ages 49 and 36, were quickly detained after police spotted them taking pictures of each other in front of the country’s most popular tourist spot Saturday while giving the stiff-armed “Heil Hitler” greeting that is illegal in Germany and punishable by up to three years in jail.
The tourists, who were released after posting a total of $1,200 in bail set by a local judge, were the latest in a long line of foreigners to run afoul of the strict laws outlawing not only the Hitler salute but all Nazi symbols.
The Nazi Party is banned in Germany. Its symbols, such as the Hitler salute and swastika, and imagery can only be used for teaching, in films or historical research as well for documentaries or films satirizing the Nazis.
Two British tourists were detained last year for the same offense as the Chinese tourists near the Reichstag, and a 30-year-old Canadian tourist from Quebec had to post $170 bail for performing the Hitler salute for a picture of himself taken by a German woman at the same locale in 2011. Scores of police and countless security cameras monitor the Reichstag building around the clock.
“We definitely treat this and all similar such cases as a serious violation of the law,” said Patricia Braemer, a spokeswoman for the Berlin police. “The law banning the use of symbols that violate the constitution applies not only to Germans but to everyone in Germany. Anyone coming here ought to know and respect the country’s customs.”…
Richard Paulsen says
Foolish things to do.Not funny. Bad judgement. Insulting victims of nazism and those fighting against nazists. Good German law forbids.
However allowing in islam and muslims with the same ideology and hate towards Jews and Christians like nazism ought to be punishable by law too.
Linde Barrera says
To Richard Paulsen- I agree and second your motion. Too bad we aren’t in a court of law in Germany. ??
Richard Paulsen says
Agree.
Andy says
Regressive leftist -NAZIS- halt Politicon free speech panel!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUpmcr_Q8U8
Andy says
ANTIFA CRINGE COMPILATION
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo2U4EE51lo
Andy says
Comparing ANTIFA to the Brown Shirts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvDbN6RMYrM
Concerned Citizen says
Nice video. I agree 100 percent. Antifa is dangerous. Unfortunately our media covers for them. Do yourself a favor…on your next video…please double check your grammar before publishing it. Any mistake you make will give those who disagree with you reason to simply ignore what you say by claiming your mistakes are indicative of the rest of your information.
Westman says
Not wise to do for certain.
Is there some racial discrimination in this case? A bail of $170 for a Canadian in 2011 and $600 (3.5 times more) for a Chinese person in 2017? The increase is too much to account to inflation.
somehistory says
Having laws that are meant to prevent another hitler and another holocaust, are great.
But allowing moslums to run rough-shod over the citizens…esp children and vulnerable women goes against everything decent. It’s akin to having millions of hitlers with the power and license to rape and murder the innocent.
Shmooviyet says
Anyone going anywhere should be aware of the customs of the country being visited- “respect” is something else, unfortunately.
One wonders what the punishment would be for a group of invited and welcomed muslim migrants doing that gesture in view of security cameras and police eyes. Would they be excused for ‘cultural’ or ‘religious’ reasons?
Richard Paulsen says
Yes, I think so.No punishment if so. Would ne excused. Finding out one excuse or the other. For example as ” they did not understand the culture of Germany. “
Michael Copeland says
Two-tier policing.
Who would have thought it?
Westman says
Germany is in its present mess for the same reason Hitler could rise to power – the willingness to turn over decision making to government; an authoritarianism with historical roots in rule by royals. If the elites say we’ll prosecute for nazi salutes, that is what happens; if the elites say there is no Islam problem then that is the official line – assaulted women are of no consequence.
Mark says
Now imagine if a Muslim migrant in Germany gave the Nazi salute.
Not knowing what to do, German heads would explode.
Guest says
Bull shit
A European says
To Westman
You are wrong. Hitler didn’t come to power because there was an elite which told the people to vote for Hitler. Both the elite and many ordinary German citizens had been won over to Hitler’s ideas; they voted him into office, because they believed in him, his party, his programme. This had nothing to do with authoritarianism. And those legal provisions which ban the Nazi salute were made by a freely elected parliament. So, if you know how a parliamentary democracy works, you will admit that those laws are being made by the people and for the people. There is no authoritarianism either. If a Muslim performs the Nazi Salute in front of the Reichstag, the police will arrest him and there will have to face charges.
Cogito says
It seems to me that these Jew hating moslems are following very closely the customs of their German hosts
utis says
I’m getting really sick of the self-righteous virtue-signalers who keep acting out some fantasy of being the good guys during events that happened decades or even centuries ago. Stop being the good Germans who objected to Hitler! Hitler’s dead, and there are new enemies to watch, resist, and fight off. The same goes for good white folks, who want to resist the slave masters, as well as blacks who fight the same invisible boogeyman. Cut it out! Get your head out of mental historical reenactments and fight the good fight here and now! Have values and fight the ones violating them.
Guest says
Proof that even without Hitler, Germany is a fascist country
Guest says
Ah, different Guest, different opinion. Listen: I’ve posted here calling myself ‘Guest’ for many years. Couldn’t you perhaps consider a different name? I’m only a ‘Guest’ here, because I’m really too classically liberal for the majority opinions here.
gravenimage says
I think the first “Guest” here was being sarcastic. I hope so, anyway.
Baucent says
There is a lot of ignorance about the Nazis and the Hitler regime in Asia in general, where European history is not taught. Consequently among some, the imagery and symbols are almost cute. In recent years in both Thailand and Taiwan there have been examples of schools hosting a Nazi theme parade or ball. All a bit of fun they think, not knowing the history.
Joe says
The Nazi symbol predates Hitler by many centuries.
The West wants to make a big deal of the few million killed by Nazis after the fighting stopped. At most the the number was less than 10 million.
Asians know that Islam has killed hundreds of millions after the fighting stopped. And yet, the West minimizes all of that suffering by treating Islam as some sort of honorable religion.
gravenimage says
Germany: “Anyone coming here ought to know and respect the country’s customs”
………………..
The real problem is not clueless Chinese tourists tastelessly making the Nazi salute–disgusting as that is–but Muslims who actually embrace the violence and genocidal Jew hatred of totalitarianism.
Muslims hate Infidels, but many admire Hitler; they seldom read, but Mein Kampf is a bestseller in much of the Muslim world.
abad says
I know I have said this before but it is worth repeating:
German culture can never include Islam because there is nothing German about Islam.
Mike says
So basically, punish people who pretend to be Nazis for a dumb picture – but are actually harmless.
But let in today’s equivalent to actual Nazis.
Deliberate? Moronic?
You be the judge.
stan lee says
I suggest that Germans in general, including its cowardly E.U.- influenced government should have respected Germany from the very start of Muslim importation to Germany. But, instead Germans, including their duly elected and appointed leadership, failed “German perfection of policy” so miserably that the powers to be covered over all of the faults made with Muslims. Germany could not admit how it went wrong again!
And, Muslims sensed Germany’s appeasements as a victory over a race that nearly conquered much of the world. Thus, Islam in Germany was strengthened to a point where it imposed its will without Germany stopping it.
In WW1, Germany overestimated it military potency, in WW2, Germany again over estimated its power, and now with the Islamic invasion, Germany again is a helpless failure which appears not to respect itself and its laws. How then, would Germany advise Muslims to respect what Germany doesn’t respect, its sovereignty and laws? Germany, you have brought yourself to this point, and you, above all else, should have known better. Now what?
andra says
The Nazi Party is banned in Germany. Its symbols, such as the Hitler salute and swastika, and imagery can only be used for teaching, in films or historical research as well for documentaries or films satirizing the Nazis
—————–
In Munich Michael Stürzenberger, a popular Counter jihadist, is facing another lawsuit, because he published a photography of a Nazi-member greeting a muslim leader in a journalistic text about the friendship between Islam and NSDAP. As the Nazi wears a Hakenkreuzbinde in the picture Stürzenberger is now accused of Publishing forbidden symbols.
You see you are only allowed to refer to the Nazis in a way that pleases the government. If your article oposes the government it can become dangerous.
andra says
Anyone coming here ought to know and respect the country’s customs
——————
I wished this would not only count for tourists showing the Hitlergruß but also for “refugees” raping, murdering and stealing in German streets. But – o wonder – for them count different rules as their behaviour is culturally induced.
Guest says
Not OT:
Read a translation of this article by Politically Incorrect, a German center/right site: author Michael Stuerzenberger is being prosecuted for daring to show the photo from 1941 of the famous mufti/Nazi pact handshake. http://www.pi-news.net/muenchen-gerichtsprozess-wegen-artikel-ueber-nazi-islam-pakt/
Showing the swastika in historical photos for educational purposes is not illegal. However, Michael is accused of not using the picture for educational purposes but for offence of a religious community and disturbance of public peace. The hearing will be on the 18th of August.
This is what Germany has come to: using its horrific past against Jews to defend the religion that now is the greatest threat to Jews.
gravenimage says
Insane.
A European says
to guest and to cogito
I am really fed up with stupid comments made by people who know next to nothing about Germany and Germans. You just seem to hate Germany and its people and I bet you still want Germany to perish – like a certain Mr. Morgenthau after World War II. Have at least the courage to say so. If you had done a little research instead of writing a lot of crap about us, you would know that Germany is neither a fascist country nor is there any antisemitism – only some Muslims may have anti-semitic feelings.
Joe says
Wow! You can’t be serious. What part of Germany is not fascist at this time? You have a small group of people who make the laws that are enforced upon everyone. Is that not the definition of fascism? Germany was not tolerant of the man who criticized the Turkish leader for mass murder. The logic follows that the German leaders approve of mass murder, but it has to be stated in the way that they approve. In other words, the man could call Erdogan a mass murderer, but he needed to do so in an approving frame of context. That is not much different than, “Heil Hitler”.
You call other people’s opinions, “stupid”. Yet you overlook the 275 million people killed by Islam. This is what you are inviting into Germany. Islam loves fascism. Islam is also fascist.
No, I don’t want to see Germany get conquered once again; I have German ancestors. I bet that those ancestors are not so proud of your opinion.
Guest says
Haha European, if you mean me: I lived in Germany for many years, loved the people, loved the culture, loved the literature, music, language, yummy cakes, the way as a child I could independently jump on my bicycle and safely go on bike paths to meet my friends in the Altstadt or the swimming pool, no sexual harassment from the lovely German boys nor from so called ‘refugees’.
I know that there were virtually no Nazis twenty years ago. Now there is a strong import of anti semites from islamic countries. How is pointing that out ‘hating Germany’?
I love Germany so much that I am terribly concerned for its future and spend hours each week listening to AfD speeches in the hope that they will somehow be able to turn things around.
Guest says
I see why you’re upset, European. That was a different ‘Guest’ earlier claiming Germany is ‘fascist’ even without Hitler. I have earned the right to call myself ‘Guest’ here, because I’ve done it for many years, and am a classical liberal who doesn’t agree with many majority opinions here.
PKG says
The authorities and political elites would do well to read Hamed Abdel – Samad’s book ‘Islamic Fascism’ and Rubin & Schwanitz’s book entitled ‘Nazis, Islamists and the Making of the Modern Middle East’.
Both examine the common ideological basis of Nazism and Islamism and the alliance between the Nazis and the Islamists during WWII.
Banning the Nazi salute whilst allowing the Islamists to run rampant reflects the alarming level of ignorance amongst the elites here.
Anne Smith says
So two Chinese tourists take a couple of silly pictures of each other in Berlin and get arrested and bail for £500 each. They have hurt no-one or injured no-one.
A thousand Muslims attack women, raping, groping and assaulting in Cologne on New Year’s Eve. No one is arrested or fined.
What does that tell us about modern day Germany?
Probably best to go somewhere else for your holidays.
Pumbar says
The list is getting shorter on destinations though Anne.
Tom says
Nazi’s raised a whole division of Waffen SS which consisted of muslims and the Muslim Brotherhood actually spied for Hitler.
http://www.billionbibles.org/sharia/hitler-muslim-brotherhood.html
So Germany should absolutely ban Islam as much as they have banned the Nazi’s
John A. Marre says
Germans are so guilty over what other, now dead, Germans did that they are willing to bring in millions of Muslims who will kill them.
The unpleasant truth is that Islam is hardly different from Nazism at all.
A European says
To Joes says…
“You have a small group of people who make the laws that are enforced upon everyone. Is that not the definition of fascism?”
No, it isn’t. The correct definition of fascism is this one: Fascism is a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.
Your definition of fascism does not grasp the true nature of fascism, il is so vague that it can be applied to almost every political system: third-world dictatorships, oligarchies, autocratic systems like China, Russia and Turkey, communist North Korea, the European Union and even the USA where lobbying, pressure groups and big business have a tremendous impact on the outcome of elections and the making of laws. So, if you think that the predominance of an elite is fascism, you will hardly find any country on planet earth which is not fascist.
Your line of reasoning is like this: Islam is now in Germany, Islam is getting stronger every day, Islam is fascism, Germany doesn’t outlaw Islam; therefore, Germany must be fascist, too.. Right?
I can do the same reasoning. What about the USA? Islam is well and flourishing in the US, Islam is fascism, but the US doesn’t ban Islam. What do we infer from that? Yes, the USA must be a fascist country as well..
Don’t misread me. In reality, neither the USA nor Germany are fascist countries and I just wanted to show you to what conclusions this absurd kind of reasoning might lead.
Freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of the press, the right to demonstrate … all these individual rights of a free and liberal society are not abolished in Germany; the parliament is still freely elected,by German citizens, Pegida can still stage ist demonstrations in Dresden and elsewhere , and the AFD is now present in three or four federal state parliaments.
Islam can be a danger to freedom and democracy, but do you really think that all Muslims want to establish a kind of autocratic theocracy? Look at Egypt, for example. The Muslim Brotherhood and their President al-Morsi ran the country. After a few months millions of egyptian Muslims were fed up with their governance, they took to the streets and the regime of the Muslim Brotherhood was finally toppled. Is that not encouraging?
Joe says
Can we agree that Benito Mussolini was a fascist? He has three rules for fascism. Both Islam and Germany pass those tests, albeit we would have to consider Merkel a globalist to get there. The USA is close to passing those tests, and if Clinton had won, I would certainly consider the USA as either fascist or indistinguishable from fascism.
The Mussolini tests are,
EVERYTHING IN THE STATE
NOTHING OUTSIDE THE STATE
NOTHING AGAINST THE STATE
I think we both agree that Islam passes these tests.
First Test:
Is the government supreme? In other words, are the rights of an individual equal to the rights of the government? In Germany this isn’t even close. The government is more important. The USA has the bill of rights, but those are constantly under attack.
Second Test:
Does the government have world government as an objective? This can be achieved either politically, militarily, or both. Why did the USA and Europe attack Libya? They say they were worried about the Libyan people which is an excuse often used by serial killers. Libya was preventing some of the mass migration to Europe. The European leaders need a big problem to get big change. Their mission is one world tyranny which they call a “New World Order”. That sounds like Merkel passes the second test. Obama passed the second test. Trump is happy with the way things were.
Third Test:
Is political dissent allowed? Germany has been sending people to jail for “hate speech”. Any country that does that passes the third test. In the USA, we still allow free (AKA hate) speech, but social media condemns it and takes action against it. A good tort lawyer probably has a winnable class action suit against these companies in the USA, because their user agreements are not clear enough to pass muster.
So yes, Germany and Islam are fascist! If not, then we are saying that Merkel is not a globalist. Yet, she participates in the EU which is part and parcel of the New World Order. The USA is mostly fascist, but it still allows some free speech. In addition, Trump is not a globalist. The USA could move into fascism in any election cycle.
The “leaders” of the world want to lock in their elite position, and subject everyone else to the whims of the rulers. What else is new?
Donald R Laster Jr says
For all of the problems the National Socialist did they are least were protective of Germany and believed in Germany. The people running the German government today are bringing in a massive invasion force that is dedicated to destroying Germany. The German people better wake up or they will be nothing except as slave to the State of Islam. Charles Martel and Charlemagne are undoubtedly in tears over what their descendants have become. After all, they drove these invaders out of what is Germany and France in the 700s when the State of Islam invaded Europe through Spain.
Eastern Europe remembers what it was like being subject to the State of Islam as do the Armenians who lost their country to Islam in the 1500s.
A European says
To Joe says…Can we agree that Benito Mussolini…
Are you talking about the Bilderberger Group, secret societies like Skull and Bones, the Federal Reserve Bank, depopulation and Agenda 21, Bill Gates, David Rockefeller, George Soros, Ted Turner …?
Some people might dismiss all that as an absurd conspiracy theory, I wouldn’t do that. I think you have a point there. David Rockefeller once said: “You (the people) elect the politicians, but we tell them what they must do.” Democracy, individual rights and liberty are not close to their hearts. The globalists are certainly very rich and powerful and they want to impose a kind of fascist state worldwide, but there are checks and balances, they can’t bribe or buy everyone and not everyone is convinced of their ideas.
– Merkel and her cronies are globalists. Agreed
-Merkel and her henchmen want to dissolve the German nation-state. Agreed.
-The EU is totally undemocratic and it has never been legitimized by free elections. It is meant to be a kind of supra-national, fascist-like state. Agreed.
-Massive immigration from Muslim and African countries should be seen as an effort to replace the autochthonous nations of Europe -the French, the English, the Germans, the Dutch, the Swedes… by foreign people who are -let’s say- more submissive to the globalist elite. Agreed.
-there are endeavors on behalf of the elite to gag free speech dubbing it as “hate speech.” Agreed.
( But free speech is delicate issue, jihadists, too,take advantage of free speech to spit out their hatred against us, the unbelievers. Should they not be restrained to do this?)
But the question still remains: how powerful are the globalists? Can they see their plans through? Europe and Germany too are headed towards a kind of euro-fascism, that’s without doubt, but for the time being Germany is not a fascist country.
-Elections are still taking place
-Our constitution is still in force
-the AFD has not been outlawed
-dissidents are not in jail.
-freedom of speech is not being done away with
If Germany really were a fascist state now, I would say: the time for debate is over, and every citizen who loves his country and its democratic institutions is invited to take up arms and to to fight to the death for democracy, freedom and civil rights.
Joe says
Elections are taking place in Germany. That is healthy. But, the EU has no elections. It is suppose to be a trade group. Yet, the EU has many things that only a nation state should have. I have read articles that referred to a military force associated with the EU. A military force with no elections is a recipe for disaster. The UN tries to pull this stuff off as well, but at least the UN laws are not well enforced. The EU laws are enforced. For Germany, the EU is the danger of getting sucked into some sort of global government. If all the European nation states want to give up their sovereign rights and become states of the EU which has no elections, that should all be stated upfront. We are not seeing that. What we are seeing is a gradual slide into a government that hardly anyone wants.
Germany has elections, but are they unfettered elections?
Germany has free speech, except that it is restricted. People have the right to sue if the speech is a lie and causes damage (libel if written and slander if spoken). In the USA, that is enough. We also don’t allow people to make threats such as threatening someone’s life. Speech that is true and non-threatening is free speech. It doesn’t matter if someone is offended. In Germany, a guy went to jail for fair criticism of Erdogan. That is not free speech.
The EU forces Google, Facebook, Twitter, and others to remove “hateful” content within 24 hours. That is not free speech.
The jihad speech is often illegal in the USA, because it threatens someone. Jihad speech is allowed to compare Jews and Christians to chickens and pigs in the USA. Hate speech doesn’t win in the court of public opinion, and that is where it should be tried. It should not be controlled by government, unless it has a physical threat associated with it. People should be able to sue for libel and slander. That is free speech.
It seems that Merkel’s government uses speech restrictions to lessen the chances of the competition. At least, the competition complains about it.
The government is supposed to operate for the people (not for the political parties). Obama had much of the USA government working for the Democratic party (his party). And a lot of that has not been corrected.
It seems that Merkel commits the same offence against the German people.
The crime of fascism is that people are not allowed to follow their aspirations because everything is for the state. One way to measure that is entrepreneurial activity which has been sharply dropping in the USA. I think Germany has even less.
The best way to measure entrepreneurial activity is unemployment, because new businesses hire most of the people. If Germany has many new businesses and low unemployment, then it is not fascist. If it has mostly large companies that are more than 40 years old, the system is likely controlled by a small group. In that case, people can not follow their aspirations, and the state is fascist, even if it doesn’t seem to be.
A European says
To Joe saying…a guy went to jail for criticism of Erdogan…
Who is that guy? What exactly had he been charged with? What is his name?
To my knowledge there are two affairs that are linked to Erdogan and which have been widely discussed in the public domain: Deniz Yüsel, a German citizen with a turkish background; a Journalist who had been working for the newspaper “Die Welt.” He went to jail, indeed, but not in Germany. Being in Turkey, he was arrested by turkish police. The German government tried to free him, but Mr. Erdogan is implacable. I may add that I don’t like him very much, because he once made some spiteful remarks about Germany, when he was addressing the low fertility rate in Germany: “Der baldige Abgang der Deuschen ist Völkersterben von seiner schönsten Seite.” ( It roughly translates as: Watching nations die can be a wonderful spectacle when you know that the demise of the Germans is imminent).
The other one is Jan Böhmermann, a satirist and TV-presenter who wrote a disparaging poem about Erdogan. I find that this poem is really below the belt and quite nonsensical, too. But see for yourself
“Sod-dumb, cowardly and hesitant
Is Erdogan the President
His boner smells like Döner
Even a pig’s fart smells finer
He is the man who punches girls
While wearing a bloody rubber mask
Things he loves the most Is shagging goats
and oppressing minorities
Kicking Kurds and beating up Christians
While watching child porn
And in the evening instead of a nap
Fellatio with a hundred sheep
Erdogan is all things considered
A President with a tiny wang
Every Turk can be heard whispering
This dumb pig has got shrivel-balls
From Ankara to Istanbul
Everyone knows this man is gay
Perverted and zoophil
Reccep Fritzl Pritzlopil
His head as empty as his balls
The star-guest on every gang-bang party
Until his tiny wang starts to burn while having a piss
That’s Reccep Erdogan.
A local court in Hamburg pressed charges against him for abusive crticism, he was sentenced to pay a fine ( 1900 euros) and he can now only recite some parts of his poem in public, not the entire poem.
But tell me, what would happen in the USA, if a TV-presenter recited a poem like that one?
In your comment you wrote about unemployment. In Germany, the unemployment rate is relatively low. It’s at 5.9 per cent now. In 2005 it has been at 11.7 per cent. Since then it has dropped by 5.8 per cent. Many new jobs have been created, most of them -unfortunalely- in the low wage sector. For the time being 2.5 million people are out of work, 43% of them are immigrants or people with a migrant background. A highly industrialized country like Germany needs above all skilled workers, engineers, academics, computer experts… Unfortunalely, most of the immigrants and “refugees” don’t fit the job description
Joe says
In the USA, the poem could be published on Youtube or on the Internet without incident. If it was broadcast on TV to a general audience, he could possibly get fined for the sexual nature, but government agency that controls that, the FCC, usually doesn’t do much of that without a public outcry. His employer might fire him, because he is acting so stupid that it is hurting their ratings.
Let me ask you a question that sparked your initial comment. The Jihadwatch readers are of the opinion that honest statements about Islam are punished in Germany. For example, Islam has killed at least 275 million people, and most of that slaughter was after the fighting stopped. Unlike any other religion, the Koran and Islam make many violent threats against those who are not Muslim, and Islam calls for violence to be carried out against non-Muslims. If you were to point these honest facts out in Germany, would you get in trouble? In America, we have been led to believe that you would.
A European says
to Joe says… In the USA…
Look, I am not an expert, I am only an ordinary German citizen, but I can tell you this:
There is no censorship in Germany, at least the state and its institutions do not practice censorship, but great German newspapers and magazines like Der Spiegel, Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, Süddeutsche Zeitung… do indeed practice a kind of pro-islamic censorship and if you are a journalist writing for one of these newspapers you might lose your job if your articles about Islam do not respect editorial guidelines.
There are websites on the Internet like politically incorrect, TROP ( The Religion Of Peace),Islam nix gut, Michael Mannheimer Blog…which can freely state their less than favorable opinions on Islam. Not one of these and similar websites has been shut down.
Authors who criticize Islam like Hamed Abdel-Samad can publish their books and you can purchase them in any bookshop.
On the other hand, people like Seyran Ates, Hamed Abdel-Samad or Michael Stürzenberger got in trouble when they spoke out on Islam: intimidations, threats, physical assault, lawsuits, slander, diffamation. As far as Hamed Abdel-Samad is concerned, ( against whom the Al-Azar University has issued a fatwa calling upon every Muslim to kill him for apostasy), most threats are coming from the Muslim community and he can hardly leave his home without bodyguards, whereas Michael Stürzenberger is often confronted with the so-called Antifa, violent leftist demonstrators, thugs and bullies who call themselves the Antifa ( anti-fascist movement). They try to disrupt every rally which has been organised by the AFD, by Pegida, by Michael Stürzenberger or other dissídents. The politically correct press ostracizes M. Stürzenberger, his fromer party, the CSU, shuns him and some people call him a nazi
I, personally, never got in trouble when I mentioned facts about Islam like Islam calls for violence against non-Muslims or Islam is a misogynic religion or Islam means dhimmitude for non-Muslims.
I am a registered nurse, I work in a hospital and I sometimes talk about Islam to staff members,doctors,patients and their relatives. Our opinions are often not the same, true, and sometimes there is a debate, but getting in trouble, no. When I talk to peole about Islam, many of them are not interested in the topic. Those who want to discuss Islam, know often very little about it. And then there are those who simply repeat what the mainstream media write about Islam: Islam is a religion of peace, extremists have hijacked a peaceful religion, one should distinguish between Islam and Islamism, terrorist attacks have nothing to do with Islam…
Others try to relativize Islam, islamic warfare and violence saying: Look at what the crusaders did to Muslims in the name of Christ. Then, I am to explain that the crusades had been a defensive war against an invader who had already conquered many formerly Christian countries. The crusades had been forced upon the Christians by a violent – jihad being one of the core beliefs of Islam- and expanding religion; Christ said Turn the other cheek, yes, meaning to avoid violence whenever and as long as that is possible, but he didn’t tell us to be defenceless in the face of evil.
After the attack on a Christmas market in Berlin in 2016, one could see, for the first time, Muslims who staged a silent demonstrations. They said: “No, this attack has everything to do with Islam since violence comes from the heart of Islam.” Maybe, things are getting better now, I don’t know for sure. At least people are more reflective, less prone to repeat stereotypes, when you talk with them about Islam.
Linde Barrera says
To A European- Thank you for giving us a glimpse of Germany through your eyes, Aug. 11, 2017, 9:06 pm. I am writing as an American born citizen, 66 years old, whose 2 grandfathers and 1 great grandfather came out of Germany in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s (because they perceived it to be a very “classist” society.) I feel that Germans should vote out Angela Merkel and vote for a more nationalistic person as the new Chancellor for Germany, a person who respects the laws and rules of a civilized Germany, and a person who will not go along with the EU on most things regarding Muslim refugees and Islamists who want to take over their host’s country or allow creeps like Turkey’s president to try to sway German law toward not protecting a German for criticism of him, his brutal regime or Islam. I sure do wish you and your family well and hope that Germany isn’t Islamic in 25 years. God bless you, your family, and Germany.
Donald R Laster Jr says
Make sure people understand that Islam is not a religion but a theocracy, and it is at war with all non-Islamics and has been for 1400 years. It followers are citizens who fealty is only to Islam and they are allowed to do anything they want to a non-Islamics. Then remind them the first time Islam had to be driven from Germany was in the 700s by Charles Martel. And Charlemagne keep Islamics out of Western Europe to protect the people. The remind them of the 2nd invasion in the 1500 and and the fact that Eastern Europe remembers what it was like to be ruled by Islamics. And the Turkey is still being ruled by Islamics as is North Africa. Remind people of the real history and what Islamics do on a regular basis. The Armenian people were driven from their land which is Turkey. People need to learn/re-learn the real history.
Joe says
Thanks, it sounds as if Germany is about the same as the USA.
gravenimage says
A European wrote:
The other one is Jan Böhmermann, a satirist and TV-presenter who wrote a disparaging poem about Erdogan. I find that this poem is really below the belt and quite nonsensical, too. But see for yourself…
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Some of this is nonsensical–some of it is *anything but*. Böhmermann talks about Erdogan oppressing Kurds and Christians–do you consider this incorrect? Worse–do you think that no one should be allowed to say this?
More:
A local court in Hamburg pressed charges against him for abusive crticism, he was sentenced to pay a fine ( 1900 euros) and he can now only recite some parts of his poem in public, not the entire poem.
But tell me, what would happen in the USA, if a TV-presenter recited a poem like that one?
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No–this *would not* happen in the United States. He might indeed be fired, if his private employer found the poem crude or inappropriate. But he would almost certainly not have been fired simply for criticizing a pubic figure like Erdogan. There are lots of political humorists in the US, including ones who are quite profane.
More to the point, though, is the governmental response he would face. There would not be one.
Except in cases of direct threats or calls for violence–which were *not* happening here–there would be no action by government. Your implication that he would be barred from being able to recite his poem in public is quite mistaken.
You say “there is no censorship in Germany”–are you unaware of the definition of censorship? If the state says that you cannot speak in public without threat of imprisonment, that *is the very definition censorship*. How would you define it?
The United States does not prevent its citizens from criticizing the leaders of other nations–nor even its own. People make “small hand” (small p*nis) jokes about Donald Trump all the time. This is considered crude, but *hardly* something that will land you in prison.
“German comedian Jan Böhmermann could face prison for ‘smear poem’ against Turkish President Erdogan”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/german-comedian-jan-b-hmermann-could-face-prison-for-insulting-smear-poem-against-turkish-president-a6972356.html
Some of this is just silly–but some is serious and accurate criticism. Why would you think that is should not be allowed to talk about oppression in Turkey? Do you believe that no criticism of Islam should be allowed? If so, you will be happy under Shari’ah.
A European says
To graveimage says …a European wrote…
1.No, it is not incorrect that Mr. Erdogan persecutes and oppesses Christians and Kurds, and if Mr. Böhmermann had restricted himself to say just that, no attorney would have pressed charges against him. But in his poem he goes on saying… ( kicking Kurds and beating up Chriistians) while watching child porn, insinuating that Erdogan is a child molester.
2. Jan Böhmermann has not been fired by his employer, he still works for the ZDF ( a great German TV-channel)
3. Although his program has been removed from the ZDF Mediathek, it is still available on the Internet. You can watch it there anytime.
4. He (Böhmermann) is not in prison, he has been fined. The verdict is not even legally valid yet and it is up to him to file an appeal (he will certainly do that).
5. The ruling says that he may continue to recite his poem about Erdogan in public, but he must leave out the passages that are insulting to Erdogan.
To understand this affair better, one should know that there is a law which protects foreign chiefs of state from insult and slander. § 103 of the German penal code says that anyone who insults a foreign head of state might be condemned to serve prison terms of up to three years or he/she may be fined. If the insult is libellous as well, the prison term could be up to five years ( or it will be a fine)
I think that his law is not meant to enforce censorship on German citizen, it is rather destined to make sure that a diplomatic crisis between two countries does not spin out of control or escalates into a war.
And then, there is another law. It’s article 1 of our constitution which says: Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority.
Even a creep like Erdogan has human dignity and we should take that into account, when we criticize him and his regime.
By the way, even in the US free speech is not without restrictions. Your First Amendment which protects you from censorship, does not apply to obscenity and it does not protect you against corporate censorship.