The Left is mounting an all-out assault against the freedom of speech, and using Charlottesville to try to crush all dissent. I received this email today. I know also that Lauren Kirchner has sent it to other counter-jihad sites as well.
Hello JihadWatch.org,
I am a reporter at ProPublica, a nonprofit investigative newsroom in New York. I am contacting you to let you know that we are including your website in a list of sites that have been designated as hate or extremist by the American Defamation League or the Southern Poverty Law Center. We have identified all the tech platforms that are supporting websites on the ADL and SPLC lists.
We would like to ask you a few questions:
1) Do you disagree with the designation of your website as hate or extremist? Why?
2) We identified several tech companies on your website: PayPal, Amazon, Newsmax, and Revcontent. Can you confirm that you receive funds from your relationship with those tech companies? How would the loss of those funds affect your operations, and how would you be able to replace them?
3) Have you been shut down by other tech companies for being an alleged hate or extremist web site? Which companies?
4) Many people opposed to sites like yours are currently pressuring tech companies to cease their relationships with them – what is your view of this campaign? Why?Our deadline is 5pm EST today.
Thank you,
Lauren Kirchner
*
ProPublica
www.propublica.org
Here are the answers I sent to Lauren Kirchner:
1) Do you disagree with the designation of your website as hate or extremist? Why?
Yes, certainly I do. For years, Leftists and Muslim groups with numerous ties to Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood have smeared as “hate” all attempts to speak honestly about the motivating ideology behind jihad terrorism. In reality, it is not hateful, racist or extremist to oppose jihad terror, and the claim that it is [is] not only libelous but insidious: the intent has clearly been to intimidate people into thinking it wrong to oppose jihad terror, and it has worked, as illustrated by the neighbors of the San Bernardino jihad murderers, who saw suspicious activity at their home but didn’t report them for fear of being “racist.”
2) We identified several tech companies on your website: PayPal, Amazon, Newsmax, and Revcontent. Can you confirm that you receive funds from your relationship with those tech companies? How would the loss of those funds affect your operations, and how would you be able to replace them?
The intent of your questions, and no doubt of your forthcoming article, will be to try to compel these sites to cut off any connection with us based on our opposition to jihad terror. Are you comfortable with what you’re enabling? Not only are you inhibiting honest analysis of the nature and magnitude of the jihad threat, but you’re aiding the attempt to deny people a platform based on their political views. This could come back to bite you if your own views ever fall out of favor. Have you ever lived in a totalitarian state, where the powerful determine the parameters of the public discourse and cut off all voice from the powerless? Do you really want to live in one now? You might find, once you get there, that it isn’t as wonderful as you thought it would be.
3) Have you been shut down by other tech companies for being an alleged hate or extremist web site? Which companies?
No. This is a new thing. First came the ridiculous claim that opposing jihad terror was “hate,” and now comes the other shoe dropping: the attempt to cut out the ground from under the feet of those who “hate.” You can only hope that you aren’t similarly defamed one day; perhaps if that does happen, you will realize (too late) why the freedom of speech is an indispensable element of a free society.
4) Many people opposed to sites like yours are currently pressuring tech companies to cease their relationships with them – what is your view of this campaign? Why?
Nazis will be Nazis. Fascists will be fascists. Today they call themselves “Antifa” and the like, but they’re acting just like Hitler’s Brownshirts did, when they shouted down and assaulted anti-Nazi speakers. Now the violent thugs work in a more genteel fashion: they just pull the Internet plug on those they hate. You, Lauren Kirchner, are aiding and abetting a quintessentially fascist enterprise. Authoritarianism in service of any cause leads to a slave society despite the best intentions of those who helped usher it in.
JL Foxsten says
I would simply have told her to F off.
Gbox says
So would I, but I’m guessing Robert’s answer was for the benefit of the uninformed who may have given credence to Kirchner.
Mark Swan says
Most people in this Nation see something strangely wrong—but seem to have no voice.
This bullying is the product of allowing the whims of special people, to dominate.
Equal rights should mean just that—but it does not—it means special rights.
We need a change of view—one with strong purpose—we need it NOW.
This need helped cause the establishment’s loss of the Presidency.
President Trump must use his bully-pulpit NOW.
We better get organized—the specials sure are.
We do have the system for this.
The numbers are there.
Let us speak out NOW.
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
You’re right. This is an attempt at bullying. It is an attempt to bully veiled in the disguise of academic inquiry. I’ll bet this list never materializes.
I would have told her to give it her best shot and if necessary I’ll be seeing you in court.
Mark Swan says
yes, you bet, this arrogant smug writer of the above threatening email today,
Lauren Kirchner, sends out her threatening email.
Which clearly indicates that her and similar miscreants, do have their hands full,
disproving the truth about Islam’s Intent.
What it smacks-of, is, Muslims and Muslim enablers, who, want this site gone, now,
and feel they have some opportunity and backing to try.
It can not be done, and never with threatening, lies and slander.
SuzQ says
Yes, it’s very important and thank God for Robert Spencer and his wisdom but much more needs to be done. For example, who is this woman? What is her education and knowledge on the subject? What mandate does she have to bully us in the US aside from the ACLU?.And does that say the ACLU has lost all credibility? I seriously think they haven’t been credible in a very long time, but perhaps they need much stronger scrutiny!
gravenimage says
Mr. Spencer *never* misses an opportunity to educate–one of the main reasons I so admire him.
billybob says
Yes – I thought his response was excellent. He took it as a “teachable moment” and wasn’t vicious at all. Instead, he was kind, as one would be to a young person. Robert – I admire how you handled this.
dsinc says
Agree 100%
Vostro says
I sure doubt if any of Robert’s well thought out explanation sunk in on this woman. We can only hope. Seems like common sense, but alas, not everyone gets it.
Westman says
Another stealth-PAC masquerading as a charity. Since when was the objective of “news reporting” the same as social engineering?
Here is ProPublica’s objectives: “Our work focuses exclusively on truly important stories, stories with “moral force.” We do this by producing journalism that shines a light on exploitation of the weak by the strong and on the failures of those with power to vindicate the trust placed in them. In the best traditions of American journalism in the public service, we seek to stimulate positive change.
As usual this political “charity” provides eye-watering salaries for its principals: President – $385,000, Editor-in-chief – $381,000, and Executive Chairman – $200,000. Their combined compensation is 75% of the total administrative expense!
Yes, we at ProPublica, “..seek to stimulate positive change.” by tarring, “the man”, and make a few bucks in the process.
mortimer says
Is the intellectual TORPOR of the Left?
Lauren Kirchner has not read the PRIMARY, FOUNDATIONAL SOURCE TEXTS of Islam, and yet, PREPOSTEROUSLY makes herself an EXPERT on true Islam. This is non-intellectual to the point of a fail grade in junior school.
Lauren Kirchner should ACTUALLY READ Islam’s foundational texts, the Sira, hadiths and Koran and then proceed to read a manual of Sharia law, and then read a book on the Ottoman treatment of subjects in the Balkans and the extermination of Christians in Southern Spain during the Moorish conquest of Spain. Then try a book on the Armenian genocides (more than one). Then a book on the extermination of 80 million Hindus by Islamic armies.
Lauren Kirchner is a know-nothing on the subject of Islam… and proud of it.
Is the intellectual TORPOR of the Left?
PRCS says
How do you know that “Lauren Kirchner has not read the PRIMARY, FOUNDATIONAL SOURCE TEXTS of Islam”?
john spsielman says
because she would KNOW that islam is a vile intolerant totalitarian system of governance and military aggression that has murdered 100 millions of people in its conquest of part of the Indian sub continent alone
sharia is an apartheid system of laws that systematically discriminates and pushes non muslims and women into second class status- dhimmi for unbelievers!
she would also not be allowed to speak out like this but would be forced to wear a black garbage bag over her head if and when she is allowed outside with her husband and or male relative!
Joe says
John, you assume that she can comprehend what she reads.
PRCS says
Perhaps, like the millions and millions of Muslims around the world have read “the PRIMARY, FOUNDATIONAL SOURCE TEXTS of Islam” and have–nonetheless–convinced themselves that Islam “is a religion of peace”, she has done so, too.
Maybe she’s read them; maybe she hasn’t.
Far be it for me, however, to declare that she hasn’t without knowing that to be a fact.
Lucia Bartoli says
Exactly
Jason Halderman says
Robert Spencer once again delivers without blemish. Flawless answers to her questions. Flawless!!
John Forbes says
This WOMAN is a good indicator of the MADNESS of the LEFT !
The alliance of the REGRESSIVE LEFT with the FASCISM of ISLAM is one of the STRANGEST ISSUES of the 21 st Century !
There seems to be no REALIZATION that should SHARIA ever be successful most of the regressive left would be destroyed under the dictates of SHARIA !
Chris Malan says
Amen. These verbose answers play into the liberals’ field.
Terry Gain says
Robert does not have that luxury.
Sons of Liberty says
Well stated ,…Robert Spencer ! Masterful response . She is obviously a Marxist , ” Pro Publica ” and she is deliberately trying to limit free speech by what she is doing ! My fellow PATRIOTS ,…this is a BATTLE for OUR REPUBLIC , the Marxists have assembled over the years and now with the help of the MEDIA and a dumb downed public are attempting to END WHAT OUR FOUNDING FATHERS CREATED ,…A REPUBLIC FOUNDED ON LIBERTY ! We must fight back ,..for our children, grandchildren and future generations of Americans.
Aaron says
Jl Foxten why would you want to play into her expectations and confirm her narrative? Do you really hate Jihad Watch that much, yourself?
Yes, that is the face we need to show the world, a hateful belligerence.
Steve Sarchett says
Well her picture makes her look a little crazy & maybe she. But in reality the progressive left youth are just naive, uneducated, indoctrinated, fools who believe their opinions are the only ones that matters and have no tolerance for other’s opinions.
John says
Me too. And added several four letter words to it.
Grace says
That would be so easy but the left is using the Saul Allinsky rules against us. They tie us up with our own laws and they are relentless. Read “Rules For Radicals” and you will gain an education and understand what we are up against. It is the liberals and Obama playbook, a primmer for Community Organizers..If they can manage to get rid of the first amendment then political correctness will take over. We will find ourselves actually being jailed for expressing an opinion.
Joe Speziale says
I like Gen. Anthony McAuliffe’s historic response to the imperious demand of Commander Heinrich Freiherr von Luttwitz (“..we will give you two hours..”) at Bastogne:
“NUTS!”
carol says
She has no “good intentions”. Her brain is bugging out of her eyes.
Keith says
When she is the slave of her muslim neighbour maybe she will look back and wonder if she did the right thing. Unfortunately it will be too late then.
CoastalSue says
Bravo, Robert. That woman is pure evil and you are right, it will come back to bite her if this country continues to deny free speech by calling the truth hate speech.
balafama says
wow ,spoken like a true communist fascist ,with the arrogance of giving u a deadline .she needs to be slapped with a lawsuit too.
Delphi says
This site isn’t a Nazi site. This isn’t the left I signed up for. What a joke. Free speech should be just that, and Jihadist Ideology is a serious threat to it ..
Sons of Liberty says
Exactly ! She IS more like a NAZI than she realizes ! What did the NAZIS do when they took over , shut down all SPEECH they didn’t approve of ,…..what is she doing ,…the same thing.
Tom P says
Dear Lauren,
How does it feel to be part of George Soros’ storm troopers?
Sincerely,
Tom
JeffS says
Excellent response Robert. Though I doubt it will impact her at all.
sile reddin says
Where can we write to her to show support for you?
Ashley says
https://www.propublica.org/site/author/lauren_kirchner
gravenimage says
Thanks, Ashley.
And for anyone who does write, please be polite.
John A. Marre says
In other words, this bug-eyed alien is going to pester advertisers to drop you, and harass the ISP to drop you.
I especially hate her use of language:
“We would like to ask you a few questions”. That’s what the KGB used to say.
“Our deadline is 5pm EST today”. Your deadline is not my deadline.
“Thank you,”. Don’t use nice words like “thank you” when you don’t mean “thank you” but instead mean: “This is a threat. Do what I say or else.”
Oh, and f*ck you.
Anne Smith says
Yes, bug eyed is right. From the look of her it might be surmised that she has a thyroid problem – as well as other obvious problems with logic and knowledge.
Gbox says
I’m very impressed by the restraint in Mr Spencer’s response. I couldn’t respond in that manner to such an inquisition from a pissant out-of-the-closet fascist. Relying on the uninformed and biased SPLC is no excuse for her ignorance.
gravenimage says
+1
JAMES SHELDRICK says
The fact is Jihad Watch is telling the truth about the ideology that is Islam. There is nothing wrong in telling the truth. Lauren Kirchner needs to realize these made-up buzzwords such as “hate speech” have no meaning. Look it up. An Ideology which promotes female genital cutting and killing of those persons who happen to prefer same sex partners needs to be exposed for the horror it is.
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
I am contacting you to let you know that we are including your website in a list of sites that have been designated as hate or extremist by the American Defamation League or the Southern Poverty Law Center.
Hmm. The SPLC and the ADL. Being on the lists maintained by those two organizations should bring praise. Looks like this “journalist” should look up a few facts.
Westman says
Say APF, you may have hit on something. What if ProPublica is a hit-piece arm for the left? Let’s imagine a scenario where, the SPLC had lunch with ProPublica, and hinted that they would make a donation to ProPublica in return for a hit piece on a particular organization. Who would know?
The ProPublica must be relying on some entities for its money, who?
WorkingClassPost says
What a well measured response, we can only hope that she actually reads it and fully digests your words.
My guess is that she will do neither.
Still, where there’s hope…
Wellington says
Pure projection by this ignorant and fascist-inclined woman. Superb response, however, by Robert Spencer. He ate her lunch.
gravenimage says
Hear, hear, Wellington!
epistemology says
Yes it’s all coming back, Islam is the same totalitarian ideology as Nazism and Muslims and their apologists react in same way as the Nazis did. It’s so disgusting. Robert’s answer is superb but that stupid moronic waffler won’t appreciate it
Take care my friend, all the best
Richie says
Isn’t the SPLC a hard left propaganda site?
underbed cat says
I would love to know if this woman has read the Quran….my guess is not likely. I would say if she know the Quran she is lying ….. then ask what is the purpose of the muslim brotherhood, what organizations did it create to deceive? Where did the term tacqyya come from….? My guess who? What? would be her response…Also do you know what is taught in the mosques? My guess she does not. Do you know what the islamic law of slander is and why it calls the truth hate speech? Again nope…. so we could put this lady on our list of uninformed or a fibbers list….it ‘s her choice.
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
Even if she had read it, she’d keep quiet about it. Admitting it publicly would force her into a corner where she’d have to explain the misogyny and fascism in its contents.
No, wait a minute. It is against behavioral law to even ask about the contents of the Holy Ko-Ran. I was just having a dreamy moment there. Sorry.
Crystal says
Sounds like some kind of blackmail to me.
Koosemo says
Dear “Lauren”
Do you believe you represnt a hate entity?
Should it be shut down? And if not, why?
Vic says
Great idea! Maybe we could all copy the list of arrogant questions Lauren Kirchner sent Mr. Spencer and paste it on her website. Do you think she would send us each a response? ???
Pet Charles says
Excellent reply. I think those of us who want to expose the sewage of Islam should start a campaign of our own to tag leftist agencies as hate speech. Anytime a Jew is threatened we should flood the carriers with complaints.
Koosemo says
Represent
Jordan says
A couple of sites I visit ( I won’t mention their names here) are gone, as are their Facebook and Twitter pages. I hope that doesn’t happen here. The fascists on the left have made it clear that they are against free speech and I suspect they will pressure advertisers, website hosts and social media to completely silence anyone who doesn’t agree with their fascist beliefs.
endislam says
When she attacked Mr. Spencer, she attacked us all who rely on him to speak up against the fascists and the islamists. Who the hell are they to decide for us what we should be reading or saying. If the tables were turned I would have liked to hear her response. Am certain it wouldn’t have been so polite and succinct as Mr. Spencer’s response. I feel a big dark cloud enveloping this planet and it is quite obvious who is spreading the darkness over this globe and it isn’t the truth tellers. I feel like I’m going through those old clothes dryers that squeezed the water out of the clothing, in this case the left squeezing the life out of reasonable, freedom loving people. I’m truly aghast.
D-spot says
What twaddle!! Maybe she should volunteer for some FGM, fashionable burka wearing in 100 deg. heat -preferred colour ‘black’, sitting in the back of the mosque and waaaay back when menstruating, etc. etc. have we had enough multiculti/social cohesion BS yet???
(Robert Spencer has the patience of a saint)
Budvarakbar says
A very important fact to always keep in mind:
“Non-profit organization” ==== Tax supported leftist (i.e. COMMUNIST) scam —
That’s all there is – there aint no more!
gravenimage says
Not all. There are some non-profit organizations like charities that rely on private donations. Still, I take your point.
Ashley says
Jihad Watch is a 501 (c) 3 organization. Donations are tax-deductible.
_________________
Not sure, but I *think* this implies that JW has some degree of non-profit status.
Paul N Silas says
Sorry but I post on this site and I hate sex slavery, child molestation, rape, beheadings, church bombings, running vans into crowds, saying that you are going to kill all Jews or Christians, Mo, and Allah ( aka Satan).
So yes, one vote as a “Hate Site”.
gravenimage says
Hear, hear, Paul!
mgoldberg says
Says the reporter ‘I am a reporter at ProPublica, a nonprofit investigative newsroom in New York. I am contacting you to let you know that we are including your website in a list of sites that have been designated as hate or extremist by the American Defamation League or the Southern Poverty Law Center. We have identified all the tech platforms that are supporting websites on the ADL and SPLC lists.”
So, maybe a spell checker to correct the ‘anti defamation league’ rather than american defamation league.
Now… since she essentially condemned Jihadwatch because the far leftist splc, and the adl have also incorrectly, spuriously, and without ever responding to Robert Spencer’s replies to them, perhaps this
investigative reporter will provide a response. Yes… I would think that since she’s indicted Jihadwatch, and asked questions then a complete reply to R Spencer would be the least she can do.
Now… when it is her turn to have her answers challenged, will we see hard dollars and cents indepth analysis, a frank and forthright discussion or merely…. what these ‘progressive’ leftists do. They shut their ears, refuse to debate, go ad hominem, and or worse.
What will be the outcome?
Will she even respond, and if not… what does that tell you about the shutting down of frank and forthright discussion sites that actually discuss, detail and debate principles and issues?
gravenimage says
“American Defamation League” turns out to be an interesting Freudian slip in this context…
Shmooviyet says
LOL’d! ( L’d OL?)
Vic says
Excellent measured response, Mr. Spencer, to such arrogant questions. We can only hope she will read it and endeavor to digest the content.
Thanks to Ashley for providing a site where we can contact this reporter.
It appears from the posed questions that Lauren Kirchner only reports what she is told. She is not a journalist if she doesn’t have the skills or perseverance or integrity to investigate a matter until she finds and is satisfied with the truth of that matter… No matter where that investigation leads. Her politics seem to be her measuring stick for truth. Sad! Unless she decides to stiffen her backbone and grow up to see the reality in front of her eyes and learn to think for herself, she will be caught in a web of deceit and lies that will swallow her up. In her desire to snuff out the voices speaking freely, she will meet her own demise.
At present, then, she has added her name to the increasingly longer list of “reporters and journalists” with nothing to offer the public but biased, divisive, misinformed and untruthful reports and news.
Paul says
She forgot one question: have you stopped beating your wife yet?
HugoHackenbush says
No, No. The question is “So, tell the court, exactly when did you stop beating your wife?”
Georg says
“How would the loss of those funds affect your operations, and how would you be able to replace them?”
How stupid and presumptuous must this group be to expect you to give them this or any other information. Such a leftist delusion to think you give a grain of sand what they think or want.
Savvy Kafir says
As a left-winger who recognizes the unique threat posed by Islam, and who understands the importance of free speech, I find this woman’s threat chilling, nauseating & infuriating, in roughly equal measures.
The gall of these self-appointed enforcers of political correctness is even more shocking than their total lack of knowledge on the subject of Islam, and their mindless refusal to do anything resembling honest research. Are any of them familiar with the Islamic principle of taqiyya? Or abrogation, as it applies to the Qur’an? Have any of them bothered to read the Qur’an, or study the life of the Prophet Muhammad? None of them I’ve ever dealt with. Yet somehow they feel fully qualified to act as Thought Police or moderators of public discourse.
Any Lefty who believes that protecting the delicate feelings of Muslims is a more vital concern than defending free speech — the bedrock of civilized society — is a fool who is being used by people who are inherently hostile to every progressive agenda & every liberal ideal.
If the Islam-friendly ignoramuses of the Regressive Left are successful in shutting down free speech on the Internet — virtually the only venue in which it still survives at this point — they, along with the Allah junkies who would happily slit their throats, will have created a truly explosive situation. That’s when things will get really ugly, really fast.
My reaction to Lauren Kirchner’s vile threat to Robert Spencer is a determination to promote Jihad Watch even more enthusiastically than before. I encourage others to do the same.
gravenimage says
+1
PRCS says
“Any Lefty who believes that protecting the delicate feelings of Muslims is a more vital concern than defending free speech — the bedrock of civilized society — is a fool who is being used by people who are inherently hostile to every progressive agenda & every liberal ideal.”
Fools who apparently do not realize or acknowledge that Islam is NOT a warm and fuzzy liberal ideology.
JawsV says
What does she have? An IQ of 2?
Santa Voorhees says
2? That’s very high… at least for leftist standards.
mike9a says
seems too high
JawsV says
1 1/2?
Thanks for the chuckles!
gravenimage says
Leftist “journalist” Lauren Kirchner of ProPublica threatens Jihad Watch
………………………
*Disgusting*. Kudos to Robert Spencer for his logical, principled, and measured replies to these ugly smears.
Karly says
She’s a young woman with very limited true life experience, thus she’s easy prey for the ADL and SPLC-type hate groups.
This is how we can determine the level of her intellect. If she bites their bait without thinking it through, she lacks curiosity and integrity. If she’s capable of reading through the lines, she’s intelligent and won’t include you on her list.
Ashley says
“I am contacting you to let you know that we are including your website in a list of sites that have been designated as hate or extremist by the American Defamation League or the Southern Poverty Law Center.”
________________________
I don’t think Lauren has much say in the matter. Jihad Watch will be on ProPublica’s nifty list.
I don’t care if Lauren is a young woman with limited life experience. She has no business antagonizing Robert and asking inappropriate questions regarding Robert’s relationships with various tech companies.
I doubt Lauren will quote from Robert’s civil and thoughtful response.
Lauren lacks curiosity and integrity. That has already been demonstrated when she dispatched her nasty email.
Sheikh Anvakh says
Perhaps I should send the self-righteous guardian of the public’s morals & thoughts, Lauren a copy of 1984, with a note to remind her that Orwell wrote it as a WARNING, not as an instruction manual for totalitarianism.
Bezelel says
Self appointed judge with absolutely no judgement skills. Insane doesn’t mean stupid but I’m still amazed how someone can be that far out of synch with reality and still manage to feed themselves. You would think she would have starved to death trying to stuff food up her nose. Ad my thumbs up to your response to the retard. Very tactful and as usual precisely accurate.
Joe says
Did you notice she listed the “American [sic] Defamation League” ?? LOL
mike9a says
“we are including your website in a list of sites that have been designated as hate or extremist by the American Defamation League or the Southern Poverty Law Center. ”
Based on what facts, research, examples, you are including the JW site on what or where?
Who is WE? “OUR DEADLINE is…” Unbelievable! looked like from someone just learned how to read and write. This woman brain, if any, is representing journalism and journalists. An interesting times!
Ren says
Why doesn’t American Defamation League designate the quran as hate speech? Dumb morons.
eduardo odraude says
An attempted interpretation of Lauren’s letter:
This seems to be an at least perfunctory attempt to give the site a chance to defend itself.
Can you help us with our possible attempts to shut your site down?
Can you help us determine how effective we might be in injuring you, and what you would do in response, so we can block that too?
Can you tell us who else has tried to shut you down? We need help to beef up the justifications we will produce when we shut you down.
Can you inadvertently tell us incriminating things about yourself, or if there is nothing incriminating, can you inadvertently tell us how you intend to respond to our campaign, so we can anticipate your defenses.
You have been notified of your imminent doom.
F you.
— No “sincerely”?
Ashley says
BINGO, eduardo!
You did a great job summing it up!
gravenimage says
Spot on. She is asking for the victim’s help in shutting down freedom of speech.Luckily, Mr. Spencer did not oblige her.
PRCS says
She is asking Robert to dig his own grave.
PRCS says
Good stuff.
Infidel Lass says
Robert Spencer just dropped the mic, educated-chap style.
somehistory says
First of all, she claims to be an “investigative reporter”….totally untrue. If she had “investigated,” she would have found that the poverty law center….*a misnomer(…is a hate site. They hate the truth. They are not in poverty, they don’t represent the law and most people of the South have standards way above whats his face…dees. If she had investigated, she would have read many of Mr. Spencer’s articles, books, speeches, etc. and found that what he hates is evil, lying and trying to end the freedom of speech.
Secondly, what business is it of hers how important the tech companies are to Jihadwatch?
And how dare she give a *deadline* for Mr. Spencer to answer her nosy and arrogant questions?
She should consult a dictionary for the meaning of “investigative” and “journalism.” Then she should go comb her hair and write out an apology to Mr. Spencer.
And if she has written an article….a blog…about Mr. Spencer, his responses or this site, she should write an apology and retraction for any and all things said that were untrue.
Savvy Kafir says
Good point! Lauren Kirchner does a real disservice to the words “investigative” and “journalist”.
She’s the ignorant tool of savages & aspiring theocrats.
Matt Hamilton says
As always Mr. Spencer,
WELL SAID!!
And as always, thank you for your work. Bless you from the Hamiltons
Peter says
Probably wouldn’t recognize reality if it hit her in the face.
SAM says
Robert. Thanks for all you do. How do you deal with clueless lefties and Muslims. Evil people pretending to be good. Sickos
Keys says
From Charity Navigator:
IRS Form 990 2015 for “Pro Publica”
from Part VII Compensation….
Paul Steiger $200,483 + 14,274
Richard Tofel 385,186 + 36,796
Stephen Engelberg 381,030 + 49,259
Debra Goldberg 183,138 + 22,268
Robin Fields 239,517 + 15,735
Tracy Weber 202,698 + 30,639
Joseph Sexton 199,799 + 28,707
Charles Ornstein 198,761 + 40,184
Thomas Miller 188,291 + 43,447
Robert and his staff should be so well paid for telling the truth. They are worth a thousand times more than fake news, half-truth news puppets.
somehistory says
I watched an old Alfred Hitchcock program not long ago when at the end, he said, “This is a non-profit organization (i believe it was “organization”). After i take my pay, there is no profit left.”
Many non-profits make more than for profit companies.
eduardo odraude says
Those non-profit execs at ProPublica are doing damn well, huh? 200K is not a bad salary.
HugoHackenbush says
Mr. Spencer, you penned a wonderfully measured and rational retort. It will be interesting to see the reply by Lauren Kirchner (if she even tries).
Baucent says
You could have asked Lauren if she and her friends have had a “book burning” party recently? People born since the fall of communism in Europe really have no consciousness of the dangerous road leading to totalitarian states. I suspect wide eyed Lauren needs to do a little reading of history about the abuses of Leftist Marxist states as well.
pdxnag says
Such extremist moral supremacists must attack, lest they cease to be supreme.
Lucia Bartoli says
Okay–I wrote and spoke my piece until the Nazis come and try to shut me up. Guess they’ll shoot or beat me to death. They are the 21st century kristallenacht perpetrators!
We stand with Israel and real America,
Lydia says
Niemoller was one of the biggest resisters during the holocaust, outspoken unto death.
A Christian pastor, see below…
Niemöller is perhaps best remembered for the quotation:
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Fred says
Interesting…
https://twitter.com/lkirchner/status/897454403594145792
https://twitter.com/lkirchner/status/893141546513686528
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
BareaNakedIslam.com had its PayPal account frozen a few months back. I understand a fair bit of donation money was in the account and lost to the site. The site now accepts donations directly.
I stopped using PayPal years ago. Ever since then I have heard stories about it.
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
Sorry http://www.barenakedislam.com
Demsci says
I like to see this exchange as one between a sort of “Prosecutor of JW” and it’s defending lawyer. The 2 antagonists can never convince each other, are primarily for indicting and defending, it is their “job”. But it is the public, “judge and jury” both are trying to convince. And Robert does an excellent job, with this.
David M says
Robert merely re- posts media posts of Muslim activity around the world. Lauren must be saying Muslim activity is hateful if she has a problem with these posts.
Demsci says
And there is plenty more where that came from, from JW’s side. Let us warn Lauren Kirchner and the likes:
“You are to be commended that you, perhaps unknowingly, tried to engage Robert Spencer in debate in some sort.”
He has vast and complete knowledge at hand about what he “hates”.
The vile supremacist, violent parts of Islamic Ideology and the intentions and acts inspired by them of Muslims, (and I think religion is a choice, not only an accident of birth, so why don’t you hold Muslims accountable as you do JW?) (there is plenty of hate in Islamic scriptures, why don’t you check it out?).
He never incites to violence, and his “hate” is only towards something that deserves to be hated by freedom loving people.
And he acts as a defending lawyer for victims and potential victims of that which he “hates”. And of the full democratic ideology and system that perhaps you also cherish deep down. And by the way for the equal rights of women. As he “hates” those that deny them inside and through the Islamic ideology and community.
Right now it is most likely you will cower back and not respond. So right now you too have a deadline before being called a “runner”. Many “ran” before for Mr Spencer.
Should you try to be an honest truth seeker, and help such people in your audience, then prepare at least for a very difficult battle in honest logical debate. With his vast and complete knowledge of Islam, Robert Spencer might well make mincemeat of your arguments (as I have witnessed him to do Muslims and Islam-defenders on quite a few occasions).
Oh, and not to convince YOU, but a lot of members of the public, who listen well to both of you. Including the technical companies you mention and aver to. You are most welcome to try.
JG Estiot says
Propublica is supposed to be “Journalism in the Public Interest”. Is it in the public interest to attack one of the few websites that has the courage to stand up against the number one enemy of modern civilization?
KRJ says
Speak now and cherish your freedom of speech Ms. Kirchner because thanks to your direct efforts and traitors like you, one day all we will be able to see are your eyes bulging out of the slit of a head-to-toe black chador as you are told to “Shut up!” by random muslim males that is, when you are “allowed” to leave your home – but only for food shopping. The world needs MORE Jihad Watch websites exposing the hate Islam teaches against our way of life and freedoms in the West. If you are a true “journalist” you will study history and see how region and after region, country after country, has fallen to their stealthy persistent agenda. You might even want to study arabic then sit in on their mosques (women only section tho) and listen and learn what they have in mind for we kaffir. امراة غبية
Arman Tanzarian says
Robert, If I’d received this I would have just sighed with despair but your response was simply brilliant. I can see why they’ve banned you from britian and why the mainstream media ignores you, if more people heard this message the problem would be quickly resolved. It’s actually not that hard, some countries have no terrorism at all – look at Hungary for positive and sensible reasons (or Saudi Arabia for oppression and brutality). … Hummm Hungary seems like a nice place to visit!
Henner720 says
Real classic. Feminist. She suffer the most under sharia. Paradox.unreal. she is in state of believe like the jihadies. Out of our reach. Her misunderstanding : people in these sites are loon racist. It is a misplaced point. The islam ideology is leading to darkness and death, anti development if you will. In its path it programmes young to loathe opposition by means of higher pius status. Now that is awfully succesful these years, as pius has a nice cling about itself in these ‘unmoral’ times.unfortunately it is out of control. The higher pius status is dangerous in its contempt for human life. I daught she share that contempt.
IanB says
Text of my email to Lauren:
Lauren,
Please read and consider carefully Robert Spencer’s response to your email.
Revealing the truth about Islam, based upon study of Islamic literature and utterances of its followers, is not “hate” but expression of honest free speech essential to the survival of civilisation.
I advise you to discuss the reality of Islam with ex-Muslims, apostates, or at least to read some of their books with an open mind.
I do not have the arrogance to set a deadline to your reply to this email.
Sincerely,
Ian.
scherado says
I thought that the sentence, “This could come back to bite you if your own views ever fall out of favor.” should not have been left standing to be taken out of context.
I would NOT have written the answer in 4. Let me make an attempt at a reply to #4:
//Nazis will behave like Nazis. Fascists will behave like fascists. Today, the members of one such group call themselves “Antifa”: They behave just like Hitler’s Brownshirts in the 1930s who shouted down and assaulted any and all anti-Nazi speakers who might have opposed Hitler’s rise to complete and total power. History is unambiguous in it’s account of their success in this regard–except, this contemporary group goes by an Orwellian-inspired name, that is, one OPPOSITE of their mode of operation…//
Wait…There may be a problem. The reason is that Antifa appeared at a neo-Nazi rally in Charlottesville in opposition to the fascists conducting a rally. In this case, at the event in Charlottesville, it could be asserted that Antifa members were playing the role of “anti-fascist” when they opposed the neo-Nazis. One had better be very careful when assigning blame and responsibility with respect to the events at Charlottesville. The reference to “Antifa” should not have been made in the answer to #4 AT THIS TIME. The correct connection between the SIMILAR RESULTS achieved by the 1930’s brownshirts, contemporary Antifa AND contemporary “Internet plug” pullers must be made very carefully.
Given this observation, removal of two sentences and addition of one would give:
//Nazis will be Nazis. Fascists will be fascists. In the 1930s, Hitler’s Brownshirts were employed successfully to suppress any and all opposition to Hitler’s rise to power. Now, the violent thugs work in a more genteel fashion: they just pull the Internet plug on those they hate. Authoritarianism in service of any cause leads to a slave society despite the best intentions of those who helped usher it in.//
Perhaps, even this re-write won’t save the day.
I hope I have been understood.
FYI says
A well-thought out response to the leftist media totalitarians by Mr Spencer!
Questions for leftists..
1)Will you campaign against the virulently anti-Semitic teachings in the koran?Why not?
Nothing in Hitler’s odious “mein kampf” or in the fraudulent “protocols of the elders of Zion” compares to the outrageous islamic anti-Semitism found in the koran and the hadith.Nothing
2)Will you complain about the hate speech in the koran and the hadiths please?
“I have been made victorious through terror”
Muhammed’s boast{Bukhari 4:52:220}
If you want hate speech ….
Read the koran.
Read the hadith.
Joy D. Brower says
The Left is definitely ramping up its fascistic move to silence everyone but the REAL fascists in today’s world – the Left!! Or, as Michael Savage has just accurately dubbed them, “the Bolsheviks!” But I’m pleased that the Southern Poverty Law Center (a misnomer if ever there was one! Dees is rolling in funds & contributions!!) has published their ridiculous list of so-called hate groups, because I can hardly wait to “share it” with my BFF from college (now an avowed leftist), because I can taunt her with the information that her old friend is now an official “hater” on the Right! Namely, I’m a proud member of the Corona (CA) chapter of ACT! for America – which, in the dhimmied eyes of the SPLC, is now an official “hate group!” If we didn’t know that the SPLC (a truly rotten non-profit!) is a communist-inspired organization dedicated to using the Civil Rights movement to further its totalitarian goals, we could at least say, “It takes one (a hate group) to know one!”
Gamaliel says
Great answer. If she changes her mind though I’ll be amazed. I have argued with lefties most of my life and haven’t gotten anywhere. Here is a good web site about people holding on to beliefs. http://www.mypracticalphilosophy.com/shelp/beliefhold.htm
Guy Macher says
Robert is a powerful advocate for freedom of speech and the power of reason. Thank you, Mr Spencer!
KHarn says
Remind her that threats by e-mail or on the internet are still considered threats. Tell her that legal action will be forth coming.
Dave Miller says
Robert, you are a leader of people of love and clear thinking. Thank you for taking your responsibilities seriously.
mgoldberg says
I too, wrote to the ProPublica site, and this morning I emailed Lauren Kirchner this email. There are two grammatical imperfections- my apologies, but perhaps the ideas will be of some interest. Mark
——–
I wanted to respond to some reportage of email ‘threats’ you made to at least two sites I am interested in obtaining information. Specifically, I will refer to the first, ‘JIhadwatch’ edited by Robert Spencer.
I was appalled at the presumptuousness you displayed, not the least was the request to be replied to with ‘answers’ by 5pm Friday.
It was rather like reading something out of some Russian communist Pravda article, whereby the ‘dissident’ was commanded to reply
before the KGB came knocking at their doors.
I don’t imagine you even understand the charge, let alone the concept. You smugly threatened that site, and that man, because he was listed in the SPLC ( frankly, it is a sham, a discredited one but with enormous ‘progressive’ funding) and the American Defamation League -there’s a freudian slip you made.
You call yourself and ‘investigative reporter’ Your site ProPublica announces this as
” Our work focuses exclusively on truly important stories, stories with “moral force.” We do this by producing journalism that shines a light on exploitation of the weak by the strong and on the failures of those with power to vindicate the trust placed in them. In the best traditions of American journalism in the public service, we seek to stimulate positive change.”
Yet there on Jihadwatch, you produced an email threat to destroy a site. Should I rather see you, and your ‘site’ as a ‘hate’ entity, and if not, why?
Let me alone note that as I looked at your twitter feed, and saw your progressive interests, postings, I found a very curious one. You were excited to find an old hard copy of ‘A review of history’ by the redoubtable ‘Oriana Fallaci’.
Indeed, in 1974 it was well worth the read. Did you know of or read the changes she went thru intellectually, ethically, to produce after 9/11, her two fine books, ‘The Rage and the Pride’ and ‘The Force of Reason’.
I suppose you will have to call her a ‘hater’ and ban her books, and thoughts. Did you know that she was an admirer of Robert Spencer, and of course, he of her work, her studies, her conscientiousness to detail reading the enormous problem of ‘Jihad’ and indeed, the site has produced an enormous contribution to the study of this problem since it’s inception.
And nowhere does Robert Spencer, call for the hated, the destruction of muslims, nor the elimination of the rights and privileges of muslims. But you no doubt have very little awareness of what the site, and his intellectual contribution has been.
You are possessed of the tyranny that George Orwell spoke so diligently about, and you set your deadlines for others, without regard for researching, sifting nor winnowing to find the honest facts, and truths before you made your ‘threats’ to him and other sites yesterday. Fallaci would have scourged you as the Fascist her father fought against prior to WW II, And she herself fought against, especially the Islamic Jihad threat which is now setting fire across the globe.
Hypocrisy…. Lauren Kirchner, and you should have the decency to respond frankly and forthrightly to the ‘Jihadwatch’ site and it’s editor as he so politely responded to your unbelievably intolerant, ignorant and tyrannic threat of an email to him.
I dare you to have the decency. Or is that beyond your ‘ethics’
Mark
Norger says
Hear hear! Excellent! Please let us know if she replies.
Wellington says
My compliments, mgoldberg. I doubt, however, this young woman will reply and if she does it will be pure platitudinal tripe mixed with misinformation. She is not informed enough and probably not bright enough to provide a thoughtful reply. Again, my compliments for your missive to her. Well done.
PRCS says
Ummm.
Platitudinal tripe, my favorite menudo recipe.
Wellington says
Don’t forget the mayo.
Guy Forest says
What a great letter. Moral clarity.
Yohanan says
I sent this polite email to lauren.kirchner@propublica.org and to the contact page of SPLC. (I agree with much of what Propublic and SPLC seem to stand for – but calling Jihad Watch a hate group is ignorant and wrong.)
>>
to L. Kirchner
Your Aug 18th letter* to Robert Spencer of Jihad Watch is against the right of speech, information and exchange of opinions. Your outrageous bullying is against a non-violent educational site which informs about the ideas and beliefs behind Jihadi terror. Robert Spencer’s articles (as separate from the open forum) does not promote hatred of Muslims but exposes and informs about Islamic supremacism – a legitimate, important, historic and current subject.
Before you judge Spencer’s work you have to read his articles as separate from the open forum or its conservative auspices. Open his videos. go to your nearest library and open his books. You don’t have to have read the Koran in its original language. But you have to do more homework than go on the SPLC say-so. The SPLC has its head in the sand to author such a biased page , see https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/robert-spencer
I know the SPLC has done good work back when in volunteer investigations of murders of Jews and blacks which were covered up by the authorities. (e.g. http://www.dabelly.com/columns/bohemian88.htm) However to conflate Jihad Watch with the hate group Daily Stormer is beyond nonsense.
Trillions of petrodollars, missionarizing, terror bullying and islamophobia law-making would outlaw and murder Jihad Watch.
Democratic electoral systems are the least flawed, least self-serving public voice. Propublica should focus on informing voters, and publicizing issues and own agenda – and not in stifling freedom of speech, assembly, information.
* https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/08/leftist-journalist-lauren-kirchner-of-propublica-threatens-jihad-watch
brane pilot says
I’ve been visiting this website for over a decade.
Considering the serious threat to our civilization that it addresses, in my opinion Jihad Watch is be very measured and rational its approach. To a fault.
I have not once seen an appeal to emotion or hatred in response to Islamist outrages.
In ten years, not once.
This is a fact-based, truth telling site. It is being attacked because facts and truth are off-narrative for some very powerful interests.
Calling Jihad Watch a ‘hate site’ is political hyperbole by those who seek justification to silence it.
Norger says
Exactly. Mr. Spencer ALWAYS cites, and often extensively quotes from, authoritative Islamic sources in support of virtually every statement he makes. Any attempt at honest (or critical) discussion about what orthodox Islam actually teaches is now “hate speech.” It’s just mind boggling.
Bill Houston says
A picture is worth a thousand word. And your picture, Lauren Kirchner, says it all. Everything in your face speaks of intolerance and self righteous virtue-signalling..I shudder to think of what you would do if you ever acquired the power you crave. You should not be allowed to play in the sandbox with the other children until you learn the golden rule..
Geppetto says
Why even spend any time at all responding to this twit? But, you did respond, and, to a great extent, that’s why these idealistic pin heads whose puppet strings are being pulled ultimately by the Muslim Brotherhood believe that what they have to say about what they think is of great significance. You should have told this pathetic loser to get a life.
rabrooks says
The silly twat had already made up her mind ans set out a course of action..Why’d she even ask?
tgusa says
The left in America are running around calling everyone that doesn’t agree with them a nazi. Calling people who are not nazis nazis is not brave it is in reality really quite nazi like. I have to think that at some point real nazis, and they are out there, are going to get pissed off and come after the leftist vermin. When that happens the left will squeal like pigs but unfortunately for the left my give a damn meter is no longer working when it comes to them.
combox queen says
Dear Lauren Kirchner,
I am a contributor to comment boxes online.
Have you had your annual mental health check-up this year ?
My deadline is midnight tonight CST.
Thank you.
Joe Speziale says
It would seem to me that just her realistic threat to try to deprive Jihad watch and other legitimate organizations of income on the basis of their free speech rights are grounds for a First Amendment lawsuit against her and her fake organization.
denis says
Why is that so many of these pro Muslim and anti conservatives, women. Or women who head or work for movements like the southern poverty law org or her group Pro Publica. These idealists are usually communist and socialist proponents of hating everything American. You could ask her in reply to her letter, “Who pays you?” Or is she already working for some government organization and this letter she wrote has been written on government paper. Just wondering!
Chris Malan says
Denis said, “Why is that so many of these pro Muslim and anti conservatives, women.” I suppose he meant Why is that so many of these pro Muslim and anti conservatives are women? Let me tell you.
You see, a woman has two ovaries which start to become active in her early teens. They secrete two powerful reproductive hormones which are also highly psychotropic. They’re also not at a steady level, like testosterone in a man who is the model of constancy, reason, and logic. A woman’s lunacy cycle starts with estrogen and progesterone low but estrogen rising quickly and dominating progesterone in the first half of the cycle. Estrogen reaches a peak at about day 12 and then drops quickly to reach a low point at about day 15. Progesterone starts to rise at about day 12 and peaks at about day 22. Progesterone dominates the second part of the cycle. These hormones seriously mess with a woman’s mind and make her do crazy things like wearing horrible high heel shoes which will over the years deform her feet, buy far more clothes than anybody ever needs, the same for shoes, go all emotional and lose touch with reality. This is so well known that even the courts in about all countries accept female madness (PMS) as an extenuating circumstance.
We poor males, who have to live with them, have a hard row to hoe. This tells the story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Doz5w2W-jAY And so does this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRbZ8EwRZFE&list=RDhRbZ8EwRZFE
denis says
Why is that so many of these pro Muslim and anti conservatives, women. Or women who head or work for movements like the southern poverty law org or her group Pro Publica. These idealists are usually communist and socialist proponents of hating everything American. You could ask her in reply to her letter, “Who pays you?” Or is she already working for some government organization and this letter she wrote has been written on government paper. Just wondering!
Mike Blackford says
Well written Mr. Spencer but in my 60 plus years I have yet to see people of Miss what’s her name calibre listen to reason. If the site runs into financial trouble I will be among the first to contribute more. What the site contributes is priceless.
UNCLE VLADDI says
Robert you have a thick skin indeed.
You gave that snide attempted extortionist polite and civil answers – something I doubt I’d be able to do.
Robin Datta says
Since 1947, West Pakistan (now Pakistan): a million of us killed and ten million of us evicted; East Pakistan (now Bangladesh): two million of us killed and twenty million of us evicted.
There are admonishments in the Quran against Muslims taking Jews & Christians as friends, and exhortations to exterminate:
Kill ’em where ya find ’em:
http://www.searchtruth.com/search.php?keyword=Where+you+find+them&chapter=&translator=5&search=1&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all
There are indeed situations where discretion ever remains the better part of valour, and hence I skedaddled out of that environment most quick.
I find DJT to be the sanest politician and sanest President in this regard, and therefore am a deplorable, irredeemable basket case, pleased as punch.
شکراً و الحمدُ لله
John Thomas says
Personally, Mr. Spencer, I’d have preferred it if you had simply ignored Ms. Kirtchner’s email.
It’s important to realise that she was fishing – testing your defences, if you like – and unfortunately, by simply replying to her you risk validating her not-so-subtle agenda. Furthermore, she could cherry pick from your response and frame it in such a way to make you and your site look bad (with the inevitable consequences).
In the future, I’d advise doing a little more homework on there sender before replying to loaded emails.
Such people are not out to debate with you, instead they want to find out how they can string you up by the nuts.
Keep your nose clean and steer well away from any potential traps.
Robert Spencer says
I knew very well what she was. It was not a matter of homework. And she was going to write her article anyway. So I thought it important to try to have a say.
John Thomas says
I appreciate the sentiment, Mr. Spencer, and call me a cynic, but I believe Kirtchner had the outline of her article written long before she contacted you. Her obviously loaded questions are evidence enough of that.
You can’t reason with idealogues.
PRCS says
No doubt.
Bad Juju says
When someone attacks you with an accusatory question based on a false premise, and you answer them, you implicitly accept their false premise, you’ve already lost the argument.
The correct response is to never answer questions based on a false premise, but to enunciate the false premise implicit in their question, and then call them out for their dishonesty and deception.
The same goes for questions based on logical fallacies.
Now you’re just another victim of the smear technique of
“It’s not the nature of the evidence: It’s the seriousness of the charge.”
When someone arrogates to themselves the authority to act as “prosecutor” and puts you in the position of “defendant”, don’t implicitly accept the correctness of that arrangement by answering the “prosecutor’s” questions. Don’t’ allow them to assume the “superior” position of “prosecutor” and yourself the “inferior” position of “defendant”. Remember how illogical THEIR audience is. Most people are not logical. Most people think in terms of clichés, like “you must have done something wrong, or else the police would not have arrested you”, or “you must be guilty of something, or else you wouldn’t be on trial for a hate crime”. By answering their questions you’ve implicitly granting them the authority to question you, and people generally assume that the “authorities” are right and the “defendant” is wrong, you’ve already lost the argument.
Don’t dignify loaded questions with a response.
Attack the question, and attack the questioner.
Now you’re just another victim of the smear technique of
“It’s not the nature of the evidence: It’s the seriousness of the charge.”
The same goes for questions based on logical fallacies.