The establishment brings us deceptive and disingenuous apologetics for Islam on a regular basis, and there is rarely any pushback. Even religious publications such as the National Catholic Reporter, which published the article being replied to here, seem to have no compunction about bringing these soothing falsehoods to their readers (of course, the National Catholic Reporter’s religion is more Leftism than Catholicism). That is why it is good to see the deceptive Islamic apologetics dissected for once — by Mark Tapscott at the Daily Caller (I assayed it myself here).
“FAITH FILE: No, The Muslim Jesus Is Not Even Close To The Jesus Of The Bible,” by Mark Tapscott, Daily Caller, August 28, 2017:
National Catholic Reporter is among the last places one expects to find a Muslim apologist peddling theological snake oil, but Friday’s headline — “The Muslim Jesus Provides Common Ground For Christianity, Islam” — left no doubt about what Ra’fat Al-Dajani was offering.
“The Islamic version of the Jesus story especially, is quite similar to the Christian version,” claimed Al-Dajani. “Jesus is variously referred to as ‘Spirit from God,’ ‘Word from/of God’), ‘Prophet-Messenger of God,’ and the ‘Messiah,’ who will come back on the Day of Judgment to destroy the Antichrist.” Al-Dajani is described by NCR as “a Palestinian-American writer and commentator.”
In fact, other than the Virgin Birth, the five letters that spell J-e-s-u-s are the only “common ground” shared by the Muslim and Christian versions of the child born to Mary two millennia ago. The biggest issue that separates the two faiths is by far the most important one — was Jesus God, as he claimed?
Christians believe Jesus was simultaneously both the Son of God and the Son of Man, fully divine and fully human. He left no room for doubt about it on numerous occasions, as when, according to John 8:58, he told the Pharisees “before Abraham was, I am.”
That claim, when uttered by any man, was considered blasphemous and deserving of death by the Pharisees. Pilate, Caesar’s man in the Jewish homeland, found nothing under Roman law to justify executing Jesus but, as a matter of political expediency, he ordered the crucifixion.
Three days later, the tomb of Jesus was empty and soon thereafter Jerusalem was in an absolute uproar because, according to the Bible (see Acts 2:14-39), the disciples were telling any one who would listen that they had seen and talked to the resurrected Jesus, who would someday return to judge every person who ever lived.
That’s NOT the Jesus of the Koran, which says at 5:17: “They have certainly disbelieved who say that Allah is Christ, the son of Mary.” In case there might be any doubt on the point, the Koran adds this at 9:30: “Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!” Being cursed is the worst fate possible for a Muslim.
Similarly, as Jihad Watch’s Robert Spencer notes, the Koran utterly rejects the Christian claim that Jesus died on the cross, saying at 4:157: “And because of their saying: We killed the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah’s messenger – they did not kill him or crucify him, but it appeared so to them; and those who disagree concerning it are in doubt about it; they have no knowledge of it except pursuit of a conjecture; they did not kill him for certain.”
In other words, the Koran argues that Jesus survived crucifixion. To grasp how completely disconnected that view is from the horrendous reality of such a death, spend a few minutes with this description from National Geographic, which nobody would accuse of being a Christian propaganda tool, of how crucifixion killed.
Al-Dajani concludes his National Catholic Reporter post with these words:
“Naturally there are theological differences between Muslims and Christians regarding Jesus but there are far more similarities and these similarities are what should be emphasized in order to show the common ground between these two faiths …”
No, there are almost no similarities. The Koran and the Bible don’t even agree on the essential nature of God. Christians believe in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. The Trinity of three persons who share one essence.
For the faithful Muslim, as the Koran says at 4:171, “Allah is only One Allah. It is far removed from his transcendent majesty that he should have a son.”
Genuine common ground between Christians and Muslims cannot be based on misrepresentations of the core beliefs of either faith, especially when they are logically irreconcilable, as on the issue of whether Jesus is God….
D Austin says
First rule of a false prophet is to tear down existing beliefs and erase history in order to push their own beliefs.
The “Holy See” is sucking up to Islam in order to push for the construction of a universal Temple on the Temple Mount (that isn’t), that would be open to all faiths in the world. You can imagine what the Jews think of that.
If the Temple Mount is the location of the last Temple, as the Jews claim, than Jesus lied. The Temple being pushed to be rebuilt is for the “Holy See” to enshrine their Antichrist and what better place to build it than the Roman Fortress Antonio, named after Mark Anthony, that housed the Roman 10th Legion.
Hari Singh says
Both Muhammad and Jesus cannot both be true prophets. Jews predicted his suffering on the cross and death, Muhammad and the Mohammedans deny this. “That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah”;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:- Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;- —Qur’an, sura 4 (An-Nisa) ayat 157-158.
Jesus said he would rise from the dead, and Muhammad’s Koran denies this. The New Testament teaches that deny the truth of Jesus the messiah puts on in the party of the antichrists. The New Testament predicts that the evil ones will persecute Christians who are those people, easily the Muslims. You can’t believe in Muhammad and Jesus one is true but not both.
Since Muhammad is wrong about what Jesus said, he is the false prophet.As for Muslim charges the Bible is corrupt then why did Muhammad tell the Christians and Jews of Medina to consult those books to find out the truth. Most Muslims don’t believe they are terrorized into belief by a large minority who are descended from their conquerors.
They are idolaters and worship a box in Mecca!
F M Shyanguya says
Cf. Islam, Christianity: Only One Can Be True – http://wp.me/p2Na5H-fy
Carolyne says
“One is true, but not both,” or neither.
Buddy Silver says
The Christian sects of the first century have been “air-brushed” off the Christian canvas.
Most people who comment on the Internet have NEVER read Christian history. Their knowledge of these Christian sects is deplorable, because Muhammad would have met lots of them in Arabia and they were Unitarians. Many believed that Jesus didn’t die on the cross.
One such sect was the Collyridians
Collyridians. Under this name Epiphanius (Haer. 79) assails certain women who had brought from Thrace into Arabia the practice of performing on certain days rites in honour of the Blessed Virgin, the chief being the offering of a cake (κολλυρίς), and the partaking of it by the worshippers. Epiphanius condemns their conduct because (a) women ought not to offer sacrifice, and (b) Mary is to be honoured, God only to be worshipped. The name Collyris (or kindred forms) is to be found in the LXX translation of Lev. vii. 12, viii. 26; II. Sam. vi. 19, xiii. 68; and the word passed thence into the Latin versions.
This is the reason Muhammad got the Trinity mixed up. The Collyridians worshiped Mary as part of the Godhead.
Most Christian heresies centered around the twin issues of the nature of the trinity and, more specifically, the nature of Jesus Christ. The official stand on these issues (according to all the Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant churches) are as follows: God is a trinity, three persons but one essence; Jesus Christ was one person, simultaneously human and divine. That these two statements are not particularly rational was considered irrelevant. The trinity was seen as mysterious and a matter of faith, not reason.
What follows are eight heresies, ranging from sects that see Jesus Christ as purely divine, to others which see him as purely human.
Sabellianism: Sabellianism is named for its founder Sabellius (fl. 2nd century). It is sometimes referred to as modalistic monarchianism. The father, son, and holy ghost are three modes, roles, or faces of a single person, God. This, of course, implies that Jesus Christ was purely divine, without humanness, and therefore could not truly have suffered or died.
Docetism: The name comes from the Greek word dokesis, meaning “to seem.” Along the same lines as Sabellianism, Docetism says that Christ was not a real human being and did not have a real human body. He only seemed to be human to us. In a nutshell…
Christ only (no Jesus)
Monophysitism: Monophysite comes from the Greek words for “one body.” This heresy says that Jesus Christ was a joining of the eternal Logos with the human person Jesus, which occured at incarnation. He therefore is two separate natures joined in one body. Monophysitism is very much alive in several present-day Egyptian and Middle Eastern sects of Christianity.
Jesus
> Jesus Christ
Christ
Adoptionism: Adoptionism says that Jesus was a human being who was “adopted” by God at his conception, at which point he developed a divine nature. Later versions sometimes suggest that he was adopted later, such as when he was baptized by John the Baptist.
Jesus > Christ
Nestorianism: Supposedly, Nestorius, Patriarch of Antioch (fl. 410), believed that Jesus Christ had two natures — man and God — which remained separate throughout his period on earth. This is not really what Nestor said (although he did deny virgin birth) but the name stuck. You can still find a few Nestorian churches in Iran.
Jesus……
Christ……
Apollinarianism: Named for Apollinaris of Laodicea (fl. 350), this heresy says that Jesus Christ was not a real man, but not totally divine either. Apollinarians suggested that he had a human body and a human soul, but his mind was taken over by the eternal Logos.
Je(Christ)sus
Arianism: Arianism is named after Arius (c. 250 – c. 336), a priest in Alexandria. This is considered the most serious heresy. Jesus Christ was thought of as a special creation by God for man’s salvation. Arianism was the form of Christianity that the Goths adhered to, and it was popular in all the areas they conquered, including Italy, Spain, and Africa.
Socianism: A version of Arianism called Socianism (from the Latin socius, meaning “companion), simply says that Jesus was an extraordinary man. This heresy still lives on in two very different forms, the Unitarians and the Jehova’s Witnesses.
Jesus only (no Christ)
Other Heresies
Not all heresies focussed on the issues of the trinity and Christ’s nature. Here are the leading examples.
Donatism: Named for its leader, the theologian Donatus the Great (d. 355), Donatism included a group of extremist sects, mostly in North Africa, that emphasized asceticism. They valued martyrdom, found lapses of faith (even under torture or threat of death) inexcusable, and believed that the sacraments required a pure priest to be effective.
Pelagianism: Another group of sects, centered in Gaul, Britain, and Ireland, is associated with the Irish monk Pelagius (fl. 410). He believed that original sin was not transmitted from Adam and Eve to their children (and thereby to us). Baptism was not considered necessary, and people could be “saved” by their own efforts, that is, they did not necessarily require the grace of God. Many modern liberal Christians agee with Pelagius.
Gnosticism: Discussed in my article on Roman philosophy and religion, the Christian versions were, obviously, considered serious heresies. Gnosticism has never entirely disappeared, and can be seen in the traditions of Alchemy and Astrology, and even in modern times in the works of Carl Jung.
Manicheanism: Also discussed in that article, Manicheanism is actually a separate religion which blends Christianity with Gnosticism, Mithraism, neo-Platonism, and even Buddhism. Again, it was considered a very serious heresy. It survived well into the Middle Ages, where it strongly influenced the Bogomils in the Balkans and the Cathars in southern France.
The Bulgarian Heresy: This heresy is worth a few extra paragraphs!
In the 10th century, there arose in Bulgaria a gnostic heresy credited to a priest by the name of Bogomil. The beliefs of the Bogomils, as they were called, were adoptionist, meaning that they considered Jesus to have been “adopted” by God at the time of his baptism, but did not consider him to be a part of a trinity. Neither did they consider Mary in any way the mother of God.
Simplicity and strict adherence characterized their practices, with priests elected from their own groups and congregations meeting at homes rather than churches. Infant baptism was not practiced, marriage was not considered a sacrament, and saints were considered false idols.
The heresy had a strong Manichean flavor to it. They believed that God had two sons, Michael and Satan. Satan created the material world and attempted to create Adam, but was unable to create a soul. God added the soul to Adam, but mankind was bound in service to Satan. Michael came to earth in the form of the holy spirit, which entered into Jesus. As Christ, he broke the original agreement which bound mankind to Satan. But it was Satan who orchestrated the crucifixion, and he is still working to recapture mankind by means of the mainstream churches.
The basic ideas of this Bulgarian heresy spread rapidly west, through northern Italy to Southern France. There, the believers called themselves Cathars, from the Greek word meaning pure. Others called them Albigensians, after the town of Albi, or Bougres, for Bulgarians. This last name is the source of the word bugger, due to accusations of sodomy.
Even stricter than the Bogomils, the Cathars attempted to live simple, exemplary lives, with the most serious believers refraining from sex and other physical pleasures. Many adopted strict veganism. They had only one sacrament, the consolamentum, which was something of a last rites in which sin was removed.
The Cathars believed that the God of the old testament was actually Satan, and that he was responsible for the creation of the material world. Jesus was therefore purely spirit (Docetism), since he would have been tainted if he had had a real body. By purity of living, anyone could cast off the physical body and awaken in heaven. The impure were doomed to rebirth into this physical world. One interesting side effect of this belief was that women were treated as equal to men, since we have all been men or women at some time in our past lives.
The Bogomils and the Cathars were harshly persecuted by the Orthodox church in the east and the Catholic church in the west. By the 14th century, the Bulgarians were absorbed by the Islamic Ottoman Empire, and the Cathars were virtually eliminated by Crusades and the Inquisition. They had laid the foundations, however, for the Reformation.
Buddy Silver says
Jesus of Nazareth was a TORAH Jew and his problem was with TALMUDIC Jews (John 8:44-47; Matthew 15:1-9; Matthew 23:1-39). He repeated the message of Jeremiah (Jeremiah 7:1-34).
In Matthew 15:1-9 he condemned the Talmudic Pharisees for not obeying TORAH Law, which stated that a disobedient son should be killed.
MOSES WAS A WAR CRIMINAL ON PAR WITH ISIS
We often hear people say, “If only Jews would return to the Law of Moses!
“Instead, they follow their secular, atheistic, and Zionist ways!”
They express horror at the recent deliberate slaughter of Gazans, particularly the slaughter of women and children. (1)
But haven’t these folks ever read the Jewish Bible? Are they unaware of the influence of the Old Testament on Judaism?
Please open your Jewish Bible. Turn to the Old Testament. For the moment, focus your attention on the Book of Numbers.
You are about to learn that Moses, the great “law giver,” was a war criminal who ORDERED his followers to commit war crimes. The most heinous were crimes were committed against women and children.
NUMBERS 31:13-18:
(13) Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp.
(14) But Moses was furious with all the generals and captains who had returned from the battle.
(15) “Why have you let all the women live?” he demanded.
(16) “These are the very ones who followed Balaam’s advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the Lord at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the Lord’s people.
(17) So kill all the boys and all the women who have had intercourse with a man.
( 18 ) Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.
The rest of Chapter 31 is concerned with distributing the Midianite plunder. Thirty-two thousand (32,000) virgin girls were counted in the booty (Verse 35). Thirty-two of these were given to “the Lord.” That is, 32 of these little girls were set aside for the Levities (heave offerings), to be used as concubines (Verses 40 and 41).
Yes, Numbers 31 says what it says. The Talmud sages used Numbers 31 to justify having sex with children. And since the Talmud sages, along with Christians, regard the Old Testament as “the word of God,” why beat up on the Talmud sages? Why not beat up on Jehovah and Moses, who set the standards?
For further discussion of Jewish teachings on sex with children, see the Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Yebamoth 60b, Soncino 1961 Edition, page 402. Discussion and links at http://www.come-and-hear.com/editor/america_2.html
It’s true. Moses was a war criminal. The Jewish Bible tells you so. Should we be surprised at how women and children were treated in Gaza?
Footnotes
(1) New Evidence of Gaza Child Deaths, BBC, 22 January, 2009
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/7843307.stm
JESUS ENDORSES TORAH
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Matthew 5:18
JESUS ENDORSED MOSES THE RAPINE MURDERER:
“Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, in whom you have put your hope. 46 If you had believed Moses, you would believe Me, because he wrote about Me. 47But since you do not believe what he wrote, how will you believe what I say?”…
John 5:45 47
Seriously study Matthew 15:1-4 and see TORAH Jesus condemn TALMUDIC Pharisees for not obeying TORAH, whereby a disobedient son is to be executed for disobeying his parents.
Jesus was a TORAH Jew and his argument with the Pharisees was because they were TALMUDIC Jews (Matthew ch 15; Matthew ch 23).
His disciples were TORAH Jews!
Saul of Tarsus was a TALMUDIC Jew and was hated by the TORAH Jewish followers of Jesus (2 Corinthians ch 11; Epistle to the Galatians; the Epistle of James).
ROMANISM is a Jewish sect: High Priest/priests. Its pre-Vatican churches were laid out like the Jewish Temple:
OUTER COURT – INNER COURT – ALTAR – SACRIFICE – PRIEST – TABERNACLE – SHOW BREAD – ETERNAL FLAME etc.
D Austin says
Do you wish to get a Talmudic Jew raving mad? Simply tell that Jew that if he does not accept Jesus Christ as his Lord & Savior he Is going to suffer in Hell!
The Talmud supercedes the Old Testament in authority for many of the Jews. And the Talmud is one of the most racist, hate-mongering, blasphemous book the world has ever known.
The Talmud was written in Hebrew between the 3rd & 6th Centuries as a codification of the so-called Oral Law that the Jewish rabbis claim was handed down from Moses.
But the Messiah Jesus censored the “Oral Law” when He said, “By the traditions of your elders you make void the Word of God.” (St Matthew 15).
The English translation of the Talmud has been watered down so as to conceal from the Gentiles the “satanic verses” contained in the original Hebrew.
However, Moses was not a war criminal. 200 Watcher-class fallen angels descended to Mount Hermon in pre-flood days in an attempt to corrupt the DNA of all of creation (Genesis 6), directly leading to the flood. Moses was tasked to clean up the mess that still existed after the flood. That task was later passed on to Joshua, which he failed to complete. Modern-day stories of alien abductees being used to create human-alien hybrids is just the same old story, just dressed up in modern-day garb.
Buddy Silver says
D Austin,
GENTILES IN HALACHA
Foreword — Daat Emet
In this article R’ Bar-Chayim discusses the attitude towards “Gentiles” in the Torah and in the Halacha and comes to an unambiguous conclusion:
“The Torah of Israel makes a clear distinction between a Jew, who is defined as ‘man,’ and a Gentile.”
That is to say, any notion of equality between human beings is irrelevant to the Halacha. R’ Bar-Chayim’s work is comprehensive, written with intellectual honesty, and deals with almost all the aspects of Halachic treatment of non-Jews. It also refutes the statements of those rabbis who speak out of wishful thinking and, influenced by concepts of modern society, claim that Judaism does not discriminate against people on religious grounds. R’ Bar-Chayim shows that all these people base their constructs NOT on the Torah but solely on the inclinations of their own hearts. He also shows that there are even rabbis who intentionally distort the Halachic attitude to Gentiles, misleading both themselves and the general public.
For the English readers’ convenience we will briefly mention the topics dealt with in R’ Bar-Chayim’s article:
Laws in regard to murder, which clearly state that there is Halachic difference between murder of a Jew and of a Gentile (the latter is considered a far less severe crime).
A ban on desecrating the Sabbath to save the life of a Gentile.
A Jew’s exemption from liability if his property (e. g. ox) causes damage to a Gentile’s property. But if a Gentile’s property causes damage to a Jew’s property, the Gentile is liable.
The question of whether robbery of a Gentile is forbidden by the Torah’s law or only by a Rabbinic decree.
A ban on returning a lost item to a Gentile if the reason for returning it is one’s sympathy towards the Gentile and compassion for him.
The sum which a Gentile overpays in a business transaction due to his own error is forfeit; whether a Jew is permitted to intentionally deceive a Gentile is also discussed.
One who kidnaps a Jew is liable to death, but one who kidnaps a Gentile is exempt.
A Jew who hurts or injures a Gentile is not liable for compensation of damage, but a Gentile who hurts a Jew is liable to death.
One who overcharges a Gentile ought not return him the sum that the Gentile overpaid.
A Gentile — or even a convert to Judaism — may not be appointed king or public official of any sort (e. g. a cabinet minister).
One who defames a female proselyte (claiming that she was not virgin at the time of her marriage) is liable to neither lashes nor fine.
The prohibition to hate applies only to Jews; one may hate a Gentile.
One may take revenge against or bear a grudge towards Gentiles; likewise, the commandment “love your neighbour” applies only to Jews, not to Gentiles.
One who sees Gentile graveyards should curse: “Your mother shall be greatly ashamed…”
Gentiles are likened to animals.
If an ox damaged a Gentile maidservant, it should be considered as though the ox damaged a she-ass.
The dead body of a Gentile does not bear ritual impurity, nor does a Gentile who touches the dead body of a Jew become impure — he is considered like an animal who touched a dead body.
One is forbidden to pour anointing oil on a Jew, but there is no ban on pouring that oil on a Gentile because Gentiles are likened to animals.
An animal slaughtered by a Gentile is forbidden, even if the ritual slaughter performed was technically correct, because Gentiles are deemed like animals. (Daat Emet does not agree that this is the Halachic reason for invalidating a Gentile’s ritual slaughter — but this is not the place to delve into the subject).
Their members (genitals) are like those of asses” — Gentiles are likened to animals.
Between the Jews and the Gentiles — In the Aggadah, the Kabbalah, and in Jewish Thought
R’ Bar-Chayim’s arguments and conclusions are clear, Halachically accurate, and supported by almost all the existent major Halachic works. It would be superfluous to say that R’ Bar-Chayim fully embraces this racist Halachic outlook as the word of the Living G-d, as he himself pointed out in the “Conclusion” of his article:
“It is clear to every Jew who accepts the Torah as G-d’s word from Sinai, obligatory and valid for all generations, that it is impossible to introduce ‘compromises’ or ‘renovations’ into it.”
On the other hand, we want to make it clear that Daat Emet — as well as any reasonable people who do not embrace Halachic laws as the word of the Living G-d — are repulsed by such evil, racist discrimination.
In the Hebrew text we have abridged the second part of R’ Bar-Chayim’s article,
“Between Jews and Gentiles — In the Aggadah, the Kabbalah, and in Jewish Thought,” because, in our view, the Halacha is the law which obligates every religious Jew while concepts of the Aggadah, the Kabbalah, and Jewish thought are not binding on anyone, as our rabbis have already written:
“And so the Aggadic constructs of the disciples of disciples, such as Rav Tanchuma and Rabbi Oshaya and their like — most are incorrect, and therefore we do not rely on the words of Aggadah”
(Sefer HaEshkol, Laws of a Torah Scroll, p. 60a); we have expanded on this issue in the portion of Vayeshev.
Mark Swan says
The Midianites conspired with the Moabites to curse Israel.
When the curse was turned into a blessing instead, the Moabite and Midianite woman agreed to seduce the Israelite men and in doing so entice them to serve their idols.
The Israelites who fell prey to this and engaged in idolatry were also held responsible, and were executed. Virgin women and young girls were obviously not participants in this, so they were spared.
Balaam did follow God’s instructions and blessed Israel instead of cursing it as Balak, the Moabite king, wanted him to. However, Balaam practiced sorcery and in fact it was his idea to bring destruction on Israel by having the women lure the Israelites into sexual immorality and idolatry.
The Moabites were a special case – they were descendents of Lot, and were to remain in the land God had provided for them. However, they were excluded from the Israelite community as a result of their actions.
It’s clear that God didn’t allow the soldiers to rape the women, but rather to take
them captive. The law God had given to the Israelites condemned rape, in some cases punishing it with death. Also, immediately following the command to spare the virgin women, the soldiers were instructed to purify themselves and their captives, and rape or consensual intercourse, would have violated this. In the rest of the chapter, the women are usually referred to as people, not women or virgins, underscoring the notion that they were seen as captives rather than sexual objects.
The soldiers would have known that rape was violation of both the law and the instruction to purify themselves, as shown above; they had also seen God punish such violations with death. In fact, they had recently experienced a plague and executions resulting from their relations with Midianite women, as Moses reminded them. At that time, all those who had sexual relations with the Midianites were killed.
It’s highly implausible that the soldiers would have wanted to have anything to do with the Midianite women given this reason alone.
So what did happen to the women (and children)? God gave the Israelites permission to marry women they took captive, but they were to treat their wives with respect: the women were to have time to mourn their families first, and were not to be mistreated.
Those who didn’t marry would have become servants, but there were rules against mistreating them as well.
Michael Copeland says
“other than the Virgin Birth, the five letters that spell J-e-s-u-s are the only “common ground” shared by the Muslim and Christian versions…”
Not even the five letters. The Koran’s version is “Isa”.
Jewel Atkins says
Indeed. Isa is meaningless while Yasu’a means what it means in Hebrew.
Buddy Silver says
Íosa in English
translation and definition “Íosa”, Irish-English Dictionary online
add translation
Íosa
Gender: masculine; Type: proper;
Jesus { proper }
the Christian Messiah
(Biblical) Jesus
Jesus (of Nazareth)
Show declension of Íosa
Íosa m. ( indeclinable)
proper
masculine
Íosa m (genitive Íosa)
Automatic translation:
Jesus
Rita Petty says
None of you sound very religious or reverent or awe inspiring much less loving or tolerant. I wouldn’t want to be affiliated with any of you regardless of how intelligent you think you are. Have you pondered over the idea of ethnocentrism and put your history and belief of truth within the context of history and the context of time? You are making judgements based on 21st c. retro? The opposite of truth is not fals but error. What I care about is what makes humans more whole? What religion makes for human growth and compassion toward their fellow humans? What religion most engenders humankind toward peace?
Michael Copeland says
“..other than the Virgin Birth, the five letters that spell J-e-s-u-s are the only “common ground”…”
Not even the five letters. The Koran has “Isa”.
RichardL says
The most important living Catholic philosopher calls people like the author of the NCR article “emotivists”. The problem with emotivists is that reason is not something that means much to them.
I also think that the label leftist is wrong. They are not even reflected socialists – they simply feel strongly. In a group they become animals very quickly.
Terry Gain says
Faking His death on the cross would make Jesus an excelelnt candidate to be a “Muslim Prophet” Why not? Islam claims a sociopath as its prophet.
balam says
Terry ,You have put your point very well. May God bless you. JESUS IS LORD AND MOHAMMAD WAS A FRAUD.
Terry Gain says
Thank you balam. You even overlooked my typo.
shosh7154 says
No, The Muslim Jesus Is Not Even Close To The Jesus Of The Bible”
Islam and Catholicism fingers on the same hand
Terry Gain says
No. False religion Islam is on the left (sinister) hand. Catholicism is on the right hand.
Jenny H says
As a left hander, I take exception to your statement. The whole world is biased towards right handers. I don’t know how left handed muslims cope with the rules of hygiene and eating etc. under Islam, but I’m glad my left hand dominance has nothing to do with that disgusting political / theological / legal system of Islam.
gravenimage says
Of course, Jenny.
mortimer says
The contrasts between Jesus in the Koran and Jesus in the New Testament are huge and abundant.
While the ‘good news’ of the New Testament is SPIRITUAL & OTHERWORLDLY … (namely, the pardon of sins through substitutionary atonement), the ‘glad tidings’ of the Koran is MILITARY, TEMPORAL and MONETARY… (namely, that Allah has sent Mohammed to lead Arabs, so they may have a worldwide empire to subjugate the Kafirs and take their possessions from them and put them in the hands of Arabs … K.9.29 and Sahih Muslim 4:1063). Sex slavery is also a huge part of the ‘glad tidings’ of Islam, both in the now and in the hereafter. This is absent from the NT.
Jesus concluded his life by telling the representative of the Roman Empire: ‘My kingdom is not of this world’ … This expresses a separation between the spiritual and temporal.
In contrast, Mohammed said, “I have been made victorious with terror. While I was sleeping, the keys to the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand.” Sahih Muslim 4:1063. Consequently, Islam is the indissoluble marriage of the temporal and religious…the union of the mosque and the Islamic state.
The contrasts between the message of the NT and the message of the Koran are huge and extensive. A Muslim apologist who tries to minimize these differences is a mendacious taqiyya artist. The Muslim apologist is a flimflam, pretending that Jesus in the NT is the same as the one in the Koran. This insults our intelligence.
Terry Gain says
Islam is Evil.
J-pal says
Dear Mortimer
Thank you for your crisp comment.
I am a beginner, when it comes to reading the quran…strikingly, when it uses names and concepts from the Biblical world, it is there for its sake of argument – plucked out of both the original context and without any reference to the original meaning, or story, etc… of course, it was hastily compiled from all sorts of material, why inconsistency must be the reslut… and, about Jesus from Nazareth, it is obvious that the docetic view is prevailant… as a sake of argument, defending the ‘quranic theology’…
Theocracy without God is Hell on Earth… a lie cannot be reformed into truth…
gravenimage says
Exactly–neither Jesus nor any of the Jewish prophets are anything like their depiction in Islam.
Jenny H says
I suppose that’s what you would expect, probably like Chinese whispers if Muhammed was plagiarizing 2nd or 3rd hand Jewish and Christian stories. The people Muhammed heard the stories from may not have understood them probably anyway.
gravenimage says
I believe it is worse than this, Jenny. Yes, certain stories–like that of Jesus breathing life into a clay bird–were just stories from non-orthodox Christian sects in Arabia at the time, and are generally of little concern.
But others are particularly ugly–like story of the Muslim “Moses”–“Musa”–being used to justify “Honor Killings”, and the story of the Muslim “Jesus”–“Isa”–justifying murdering Christians who do not submit to Islam.
Walter Sieruk says
Its very true that the”jesus” of Islam is not ,at all, the real Jesus of the Bible. For the very essence of nature of the Islamic”jesus” is inferior and not the same as the Essence and actual Nature of the Jesus of the Bible. As the following essay explains .
So With Islam so much in the news and in such great power in some countries, as Saudi Arabia and Iran, it’s a good thing to define what Islam really is .Of the many ways Islam may be described, one of them is that a religion of denial. Meaning that Islam denies that Jesus is the Son of God. As in the Son of God Who is God the Father. Furthermore, Islam denies the Jesus is God the Son. In addition, Islam denies that Jesus is God. Before going over these three denials of Islam it first should the stated the Bible instructs the way to tell if a prophet or religious teacher is really from and of God or not is do the teachings and doctrines of that prophet of teacher really fit in accord what is found in the Bible ? For if that prophet or teachers and teachers doctrines that are in contradiction to the Bible then that prophet is a false prophet and that religious teacher is a false teacher and thus in doctrinal error and darkness. Likewise if a religion had teachings and doctrines that are in contradiction that is religion is in error also part of the world of darkness and is therefore a false religion. As the Bible instructs in Isaiah 8:20. “To the law of the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.” [K.J.V.] With this clearly stated, three things should be known.
First, that Islam denial that Jesus is the Son of God is in great contradiction to the teaching of the Bible . Which reveals the Jesus is the Son of God? As seen in ,for example Matthew 3:16,17. 16:15,16. Luke 1:35. John 3:16-18, 36. First John 2:22,23. 4:14,15. 5:12,13. Second, that Islam denies that Jesus is God the Son is in strong contradiction to the Bible. As found in Hebrews 1:6-8. With emphasis on verse 8. Third, Islam’s denial that Jesus is God is in great contrast to the doctrine and teaching of the Bible. That Jesus is God may be found in ,for example, John 1:1;3. Colossians 1:15-17. 2:9. Romans 9:5 Second Peter 1:1. Titus 2:13. First John 5:20.
Moreover, to further discover that the Bible teachings that Jesus is God all a person has to do is to compare the Old Testament with New Testament to see that Jesus is God. As in comparing Isaiah 45:22,23. with Philippians 2:5-11. Also by comparing Psalm 89:8,9. with Mathew 8:23-27. will reveal that Jesus is God. Likewise, by comparing Psalm 62:5-7 . with First Corinthians 10:4. shows the Deity of Jesus. Even by comparing the News Testament books together will show that Jesus is God. As in comparing Romans 14:12. with John 5:22. will show Jesus to be God. The list can go on but this should be enough, for all who are willing to see the truth, that Jesus is, indeed, the Son of God. That Jesus is God the Son and that Jesus is God.
The imams and mullahs as well as the other apologists for Islam will try to “explain’ this all away by making the claim that the Bible had been corrupted by Christians ,through time, and that’s way the Bible reads as it does. This claim, very much, underestimate the Power of God to protect and preserve His Word ,through time , and to keep in intact and away from the corruption of men. In conclusion, in light and information of the Bible in can be seen that Islam is a awful and terrible doctrinal error concerning it teaching about the Nature of Jesus and therefore Islam is part of the world of darkness. So Islam with its strong contradictions to the Bible is a false religion, Proverbs 14:12. So all dear Muslims are thus invited to leave the false religion of Islam and come the and receive the Jesus of the Bible who is the only way to heaven, John 14:6. and the True Light of the world. John 8:12.
To reply to the many apologists for Islam with their many claims to support Islam there’ the Christian site http://www.answering-islam.org
Paul N Silas says
If Jesus was a fraud, why did 11 of the 12 original Apostles die without recanting? All were tortured, only one died a “natural” death on a Roman prison island. None denied that Jesus was crucified, died, was buried, and has risen from the grave.
Then there is the problem with the Apostle Paul, who was a rock solid Jew, who hated Christ, helped to kill Christians and ended up the greatest evangelist ever for Christ.
He has risen, he has risen indeed!
D Austin says
Mo would have gotten his warped view of Jesus from the Jewish settlements in Arabia. Not like they were believers themselves.
Paul N Silas says
Yes them and heretics who were driven out of Christian Rome like Nestorians and Gnostics.
Carolyne says
I don’t think many deny that the record of the 11 apostles is contained in the New Testament. One may even believe it is true. However, the only thing it proves if it is true is that 11 men out of 12 men mentioned believed that Jesus was God. It proves nothing of the nature of Jesus if he even existed, it only claims the belief of the eleven.
Musalmaanmasala says
You being an atheist is your wish but do not try and push fake theories down our throats.
Allah scewing Mohammed!!!! Carolyne is there a hidden muslim hiding in you. In one fell swoop you have denied the historicity of the Gospels (which atheist historians have tried to debunk AND FAILED).
“It proves nothing of the nature of Jesus if he even existed” you say, does that mean that historians who have documented Jesus are wrong and had an agenda along with the early Christians to establish a fake doctrine and religion.
People do not die for a lie Carolyne, and if you say “they were fooled into believng a lie” then do you think the countless who died for this new faith in the arenas must have all been fools.
Arnold Jackson says
The writer forgot to mention that Muslims believe that Mary was a whore.
gravenimage says
So true.
Jenny H says
Is that true?
D Austin says
Even though Muslims consider Jesus just a prophet, they extend respect to his mother in the Quran. Whether they show is another story, depending on the Muslim sect.
Orthodox Jews do consider Mary a whore. Many rabbis still have a burning hatred for Jesus Christ.
Pong says
Never met a rabbi, who believes Jesus is a historical figure. For them to hate Jesus is like to hate a tooth fairy.
Dwayne Austin says
Tooth fairy? That’s not what their Babylonian Talmud says.
No surprise Jerusalem “spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt” in the latter days. That means sexual perversion and sorcery. Although, rebellion is considered as witchcraft.
Dwayne Austin says
Since you are such an expert in Hebrew, do your own research. No matter what I post you will just whine, moan, and chant the liberal mantra: “It can’t happen here”, and when it does, “Well, what’s wrong with that.”
Jayell says
When I bought my English version of the Qu’ran, to save time I turned to the index at the back to try and to find references to ‘Good Samaritan’, ‘Samaritan’, ‘Parable’, ‘Beatitudes’, ‘Sermon on the Mount’ (or even ‘Blessed’ as a keyword for the Sermon), because these seem to encapsulate the basic message of Christianity. I couldn’t find anything relevant. Maybe I missed something and it’s really all there? Or my edition of the Qu’ranI isn’t that good, perhaps? Is the ‘Jesus’ of Islam supposed to preach the same things as the ‘Jesus’ of the Bible? So how much of Jesus’ biblical teaching actually makes it into the Qu’ran? And if Jesus’ message as per the Bible does actually appear in the Qu’ran (I haven’t had any time to follow any of this up recently), and muslims are supposed to revere Jesus, why does islam come across as such an evil contradiction of Chritianity?
D Austin says
And as if to muddy the waters, why did a Catholic Marian apparition allegedly appear over a Portuguese town named after Fatimah, the namesake of Fatimah bint Muhammad, a daughter of the so-called prophet of Islam, Muhammad, by Muslim Moors during their occupation?
Keys says
D Austin, please be aware, if you are not already, that many think Fatima, Portugal was not named after Mohammad’s daughter, who never became a Christian; and it was not named during the Moorish occupation.
Rather, it was named after a Moorish princess, who was likely named after Mohammad’s daughter. This Moorish princess converted to Christianity, and that is why the town was so named. There are a couple accounts of how that happened.
****************
Of course, some Muslim sources claim that the Moorish princess was forced to convert to Christianity.
Some Shia muslims (without taking in to account the “alleged” lady’s message to the children) believe the lady of Fatima of 1917 was prophet Mohammed’s daughter, Fatima, communicating peace to the Christian world.
In any case, however Fatima got its name, your continued disdain for Catholics comes across again in your post.
D Austin says
A Marxist Jesuit Pope spreading Liberation Theology; a hotbed of homosexual/pedophile activity, corrupt Vatican Bank; Satanists reportedly in the ranks. Pope Paul VI was on to something when he said in 1972: “From some fissure the smoke of Satan has entered the temple of God” Be sure to let us know when that mess gets eradicated. Like they say, where there’s smoke, there’s fire.
gravenimage says
Thank you, Keys. Of course, this has nothing directly to do with Islam at all.
Kay says
You will wonder at our Lord’s mercy and at Our Lady’s love for all. This is not to accept Mohammedism, nor to bow to its evil but only to say there is a love greater than yours, greater than mine.
Carolyne says
Someone got their religious figures mixed up?
Dwayne Austin says
I am aware of the fanciful Muslim princess converting to Christianity, versus the Muslim forced to convert version. There is no documentary evidence to support either scenario of such a conversion. But I’m sure it makes a nice faith-promoting story for Catholic children.
As for what actually appeared. I don’t discount demonic deception. Satan appears as an angel of light, Mary, me or you. The paranormal activity displayed at that event is commonly referred to today as UFO phenomena, other manifestations displayed at that time are also similar to demonic manifestations. I witnessed UFO activity around our bases when I was in the Air Force and am absolutely convinced they are fallen angel deceptions. Hollywood has done a good job of convincing people it’s only a matter of time before the aliens land, which would turn religion upside down.
awake says
All three “Abrahamic faiths” are mutually exclusive, and that statement of irrefutable reality is quite unremarkable. That said, the article itself was a laughable attempt to smear Trump and Republicans in general.
Michael Copeland says
What three? There is only one, according to Islam:
“It is unbelief (kufr) to hold that the remnant cults now bearing the names of formerly valid religions such as “Christianity” and “Judaism” are acceptable….”
Manual of Islamic Law, “Reliance of the Traveller” w4.
dumbledoresarmy says
The whole ‘Abrahamic faiths’ schtick is very recent and was originally promulgated in the 20th century by a Dhimmi Christian from Lebanon.
The Muslim claim was that Islam was what “Ibrahim’ practised. That is: they steal the Biblical figure of Abram/ Abraham and *rewrite* him into ‘Ibrahim’ in an attempt to ‘backdate’ Islam.
Islam is a plagiarist who does not merely plagiarise but DISTORTS what is stolen and passed off as his own.. .and *then* also has the unutterable HIDE to claim that his – deliberately – hostile rewrite, that creates a ghastly parody of the original, *is* the ‘original’ and that what *we* regard as the original – that is, in this case, the Biblical Abraham – is different from his version because, forsooth, its creators wickedly changed the ‘original’.
Jews and Christians *are* related. But Islam.. Islam is a dangerous conman who poses as a long-lost cousin in order to get a foot inside the door.
gravenimage says
Yes–only Muslims and apologists for Islam drag out the “Three Abrahamic Faiths” canard.
awake says
I did put “Abrahamic faiths” in quotes, did I not?
gravenimage says
Awake, I was replying directly to Dumbledore’s Army–I never thought that you bought the whole “Abrahamic faiths” thing yourself. My apologies if it appeared that I did.
Kay says
Yes, Mohammed’s twisting of biblical truth is simply evil.
Kris T says
It seems like Christians and Muslims fighting over which version of “Jesus” is the one true version is like Trekkie geeks getting into a heated debate at the “Who is better, Kirk or PIcard?” room at the Trekkie Convention.
D Austin says
More like Muhammad or Jim Jones…
Paul N Silas says
One problem Kris, Kirk and Picard are fiction, while Jesus has millions of followers and is in fact the Son of God. Maybe you might like seeing or reading “The Case for Christ”. It was written by a snarky unbeliever like yourself, who found the truth in Christ, author named Lee Strobel.
shosh7154 says
It’s fun and games hahaha…until a muslim shows up at your bedside at night leaning over you with a sharpened glistening 10 inch blade and in a slngle thrust your throat is open…you might remember at that point that the Jewish Savior Whose Name means salvation in Hebrew even the One called Jesus still answers when you call on His name, even at the point of death to save you from an eternity of unspeakable loss.
Im4truth4all says
I suspect that you are a product of a public school education. Am I correct?
dumbledoresarmy says
Wrong.
If you want to view both Jesus and Mohammed as fictions, fine.. but in that case, you would have a better analogy if you said it was like people arguing whether Harry Potter was better than Voldemort.
gravenimage says
*Exactly*, Dumbledore’s Army–even if both Jesus and Mohammed were fictional, one sees a *huge* difference in the values of the followers of these two polar opposite figures–as well as the quality of life in a majority-Christian versus majority-Muslim land.
If Kris T cannot see that, then he or she is an utter fool.
Mark Swan says
Absolutely dumbledoresarmy and gravenimage.
Chand says
ha, ha!
Anyway, how does it matter which version of Jesus is correct? Look at what some of both Christians and Muslims have done over time?
Christians, in the past, have colonized, invaded, mass murdered, lied, stolen, tortured and done many terrible things all over the world.
Muslims, in the past and the present, have colonized, invaded, mass murdered, lied, stolen, tortured and done many terrible things all over the world.
Christians have fought each other mercilessly in the past, waging wars, genocides and such. Protestants and Catholics have massacred each other for centuries. They are generally peaceful now, with the latest conflicts in Ireland dying down.
Muslims have fought each other mercilessly in the past, waging wars, genocides and such. Shias and Sunnis have massacred each other for centuries. And they continue to do so today.
So, spot the difference here.
Both have used their religion to commit crimes.
As for the good things………………
Christians have fed, clothed, educated and built up the lives of poor, downtrodden, ignorant and oppressed humans all over the world. Most of them were non-Christians but they were usually peacefully converted to Christianity.
Muslims have fed, clothed, educated their own fellow Muslims generally. And they have both forcibly and peacefully converted people.
So here Christians win out on their contributions to human progress.
And the character of Jesus, a non-violent teacher (in most versions) is more appealing to me, personally, than the warrior-prophet Mohammad.
But both the Holy Books (Bible and Koran) are fictions, mythologies, tall tales………full of unproven truths, mumbo-jumbo, nonsense, childish stories, hocus pocus and a mish-mash of Semitic folk lore and Bedouinic laws, primitive and useless. Of course, with smatterings of poetry and some deep and some superficial philosophy here and there.
And here’s hoping that Muslims will be tamed and civilized in the future, both forcibly from outside and internally from within. Just as the Christians are now peaceful and civilized.
Kay says
You have buttressed your ignorance with bricks of self-deception, convincing yourself that you know something.
So how will you learn?
Mark Swan says
Christians doing wrong against their religion’s teaching and Muslims
doing wrong according to their religion’s teachings—not a good analogy.
St Ferd III says
If the Catholic Church is now proposing that the Jesus who was and is the immanent God-son, is the same in both the NT and in Mein Koran; than that church needs to be destroyed.
Either it implodes from its own evil (libtard theology), or from the cult of Baal.
Maybe these morons should read the OT and the effects of the cult of Baal.
Al Lah is Hu-Baal or the moon deity.
Jesus is just another prophet.
Over 1000 verses in Mein Koran promises death to those who worship the Trinity or ‘false idols’ or ‘anything’ associated with Baal.
Morons.
gravenimage says
Most Catholics do not believe this crap–including Robert Spencer, who is himself a devout Catholic.
Mark Swan says
Absolutely, most Catholics would be shocked at what the Quran is.
Im4truth4all says
St. Jerome insists that ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. A strong exhortation from a Father and Doctor of the Catholic Church urging all Christians to recognize that serious Bible study is a necessity, not an optional luxury.
The Shroud of Turin, in my opinion, proves beyond a reasonable doubt the unbelievable suffering Jesus Christ went through for our redemption and proves, in my opinion, what a fraud Mohammedanism is. A reasonably logical mind can lead one to the truth if they have any reasonable critical thinking left and exercise that logic.
Carolyne says
Do you mean the logic of an old man with a beard floating somewhere in the cosmos said “Let there be light” and light was suddenly created? Then the same with earth, the sun, planet, galaxies, etc. and then put a couple of people on one of the planets with instructions to not eat apples? But a talking snake convinced the woman that the old guy was a fraud and she should go ahead and eat the apples, and so she did and then she convinced her mate to do the same and they both gained knowledge they weren’t supposed to have? So they were banished.They had some kids, but one of them killed another one so they were disbursed and married other people, which was hard because they were supposed to be the only people existing. The Land of Nod, I believe for which there is no explanation. So they went at it producing children and soon there were thousands. They were ordered to move here and there and one was sent up to a mountain top to receive further instructions and then later, there was one born who logical people claim was fathered by God with a human woman and he was killed but not really and split into three deities, making his believers polytheists, although they claim otherwise.
And he will return someday. All three of him.
Very logical indeed.
gravenimage says
“No, The Muslim Jesus Is Not Even Close To The Jesus Of The Bible”
………………….
Kudos to Mark Tapscott for telling the truth.
In fact, the main role of the Muslim “Jesus”–really, “Isa”–is to *kill Christians* in the last days. This figure is *nothing* like the Jesus of the Bible.
Lydia says
No intersection at all of these two.
Jesus of the Bible is real.
Islam is a fraud from the devil, so of course there will be a false ‘christ’ in its wings.
All of this is also leading to the one world religion.
Carolyne says
And you know Jesus of the bible is real because………………….?
R Russell says
Why can’t people see that this is the beginning of the syncretism which will come to fruition as we progress further into the ‘end times’.
Chrislam is alive and well and the Christian Jesus will slowly be changed into the Isa of Islam.
Islam is a ‘knowing about’ faith. Allah is too exalted to mix with humans.
Christianity is a ‘knowing’ faith. It’s about knowing the person of the Bible Jesus. His death and resurrection as the God by nature Son of Man allows our spirit to be brought to life so we can have a friendship with the Bible Jesus at a spiritual level.
It is time for those who claim to be Christians to learn at least the basics of their faith, and learn parts of the Bible by heart.
Our God is an awesome God and we need an ever deepening friendship with him.
Joe says
If you read a few pages of the New Testament, it comes across as “Love, Love, Love”. When you read a few pages of the Koran its message is “Hate, Hate, Hate”. The only way to find common ground is “Ignorance, Ignorance, Ignorance.”
From the birth of Jesus, to the finding in the temple, to the public life, in His death, and after His resurrection, the witness of Jesus was that He was the son of God which Islam rejects. Jesus says directly and often that if you reject Him, you reject God. Therefore, Jesus personally condemns Islam, and Islam calls Jesus a prophet. If Islam knew what was in the Bible, they would be out to burn every copy.
This isn’t the only fatal flaw in Islam, but it is one of those that jumps out at you.
trisha says
The Jesus of the Bible is also the prophet Jesus of the Koran or he is not. Agreed? Y or N.
The Jesus of the Bible died upon the Cross, according to the Christian scriptures. and He foretold this. Agreed?The Jesus of the Koran did not die upon the cross, according to the Islamic scriptures, because Allah substituted a lookalike (why?).. Agreed?
So there you have it. Jesus either did or did not die upon the Cross. Agreed?
So, if Jesus died on the cross, as He foretold, then Islam is wrong. Sorry Islam, you lose.
But if Jesus did not die on the cross, he lied. In which case, Islam claims a liar is a prophet of god. Sorry Islam, you lose again.
Let alone trying to explain why if Jesus was an Islamic prophet, Allah gave him virtually no message to humanity. Name one prophecy or teaching gf the Islamic Jesus / All he gets is a white horse to ride to slay Allah’;s enemies in the end of days. Oh, and his Mum gets to be one of Mohammed’s ‘wives’ in the sky. Spare me.
If Jesus
Kay says
We preach Christ crucified.
gravenimage says
Islam claims that anything in the Bible that contradicts the Qur’an–including the crucifixion–was “corrupted” by Jews or Christians.
Never mind that there is no archaeological evidence for this.
Pong says
Very interesting link about the trial. One of the best examples of how faith can blind even an intelligent and well educated person.
Dwayne Austin says
I meet Mormons all the time that have a PhD education and wonder how they can believe what they do. Since there about 80 parallels between Muhammad and Mormon founder Joseph Smith, reading these posts one could easily replace Islam with Mormonism. Their belief of who God and Jesus are is way out in left field.
gravenimage says
Early on Mormonism did indeed have a lot of parallels with Islam–which is not incidental. Joseph Smith himself said, “I will be a second Muhammed”.
Besides polygamy, apostates were murdered in the early days of this faith.
Luckily, Mormonism has become a much more civilized faith in the past century or so–I only wish that there was much chance of Islam doing the same.
Dwayne Austin says
Usually, the apostates they went after were the people that had sworn blood oaths in the Mormon Temples. They used phrases such as “taken over the rim” and “used up” when dealing with apostates trying to leave Mormonism in the State of Deseret.
UNCLE VLADDI says
There’s a muslima poster who seems to live over at that Catholic website, actively censoring the factual and truthful comments about islam made by Christians (and me) on it, as “hateful” and “uncivil,” because the truth that islam is only a crime-gang and all muslims are criminals seems to hurt the muslims’ feewings.
And they seem to let her get away with it because Catholics are idolaters -all about form over substance and image over reality!
Dwayne Austin says
Thirty years of trying to meld all religions together under the Roman Catholic tent are finally paying off.
A Catholic school in the San Francisco Bay area has taken down more than 160 statutes of Jesus and the Virgin Mary and the saints in order to become more “inclusive”, more acceptable to other religions!
The word Catholic has been removed from the mission statement, sacraments were removed from the curriculum, the lower school curriculum was changed to world religions, the logo and colors were changed to be less Catholic, and the uniform was changed to be less Catholic.
Sounds like Roman Catholicism is getting to the final stage where her Pope can become the One World Religion of Revelation 13:11-18.
http://endtimeheadlines.org/2017/08/catholic-school-removes-jesus-statues-inclusive/
Johan says
DDACON9
Deuteronomy 18:18
“I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brethren and out my words in his mouth he shall speak to them all that I command him.”
Muslim apologists like Ahmed Deedat of South Africa claims that it refers to Mohammad. Christians say that it is about Jesus and giving lot of parallels between Moses and Jesus.
What do you say?
D Austin says
Speaks to a multiplicity and a succession of prophets, in the view of the speaker, not a single individual.
But then, murdering prophets seems to have been the national pastime when they didn’t like the message…
Johan says
Hello DACON9,
I am a donkey, stupid. It is o.k. I think you are speaking of different person called JESUCS. i speak about Jesus, who preached about love in this world only for three years and became the corner stone of the world society – BC/AD.. In His name millions of Christian oriented NGOs including 700,000 nuns are working round clock to make this world a better place to live in. There are more than 600 Nobel laureates among Christians. Jesus asked us to love everyone. In that sense I love you DACON9.
You did not answer my question. However I give below the parallel between Jesus and Moses.
Moses – The first mediator Jesus – The final mediator
Moses was born as a Hebrew Jesus was born as a Hebrew
Moses was chosen by God to be a leader Jesus was chosen by God to be a leader
Moses was born while his people were suffering under a cruel leader. (Pharaoh) Jesus was born while his people were suffering under a cruel leader. (Herod)
Moses hid in Egypt as a child. Jesus hid in Egypt as a child.
The leader of the land that Moses was born into tried to kill all of the babies when he was born. The leader of the land that Jesus was born into tried to kill all of the babies when He was born.
Moses turned water into blood. Jesus turned water into wine.
Moses died on a hill. Jesus died on a hill.
Moses fasted 40 days and faced a spiritual crisis on a mountain Jesus fasted 40 days and faced a spiritual crisis on a mountain.
Moses told people about the need for a Passover lamb. Jesus became the Passover lamb.
Moses founded a new religion Jesus founded a new religion
Moses communicated directly with God Jesus communicated directly with God
Moses performed miracles Jesus performed miracles
Moses revised an existing religion Jesus revised an existing religion
Moses was a law giver – gave the ten commandments Jesus was a law giver – gave the great commandment.
Moses was hated by the ruling party (Egyptians) Jesus was hated by the ruling party (Pharisees)
Moses had brothers and sisters who misunderstood him. Jesus had brothers and sisters who misunderstood him.
Moses chose 12 leaders to follow. Jesus chose 12 leaders to follow.
Moses gave his people a new identity as a people. Jesus gave his people a new identity as a people.
Moses had followers who strayed from his teachings. Jesus had followers who strayed from his teachings.
Moses is arguably the lead figure of the Old Testament. Jesus is the lead figure of the New Testament.
Moses taught his followers how to pray. Jesus taught his followers how to pray.
Moses chose people to carry on when he was leaving. Jesus chose people to carry on when he was leaving.
Moses led his people to the promised land. Jesus leads his people to the promised land.
Moses sent 12 spies to Canaan so he could bring people to the promised land. Jesus sent 12 disciples to the world so he could bring people to the promised land.
Moses appointed 70 rulers over Israel Jesus appointed 70 disciples to the nations.
The people picked up stones to stone Moses but they did not succeed. The people picked up stones to stone Jesus, but they did not succeed.
Moses controlled the waters of the Red Sea Jesus controlled the Sea of Galilee
Moses brought living water out of the Rock Jesus brings living water to all of his believers.
The face of Moses shown with glory on Mount Sinai. The face of Jesus shown with glory on the mount of Transfiguration.
Moses lifted the brazen serpent up in the wilderness to heal people Jesus was lifted up on the cross to heal us from our own sins.
Moses was a shepherd Jesus was the good shepherd
Moses subdued an attacking army by raising his arms high on the top of a hill. (with two other people) Jesus subdued sin and death with arms raised high on a hill. (with two other people)
Moses said another prophet would come (Jesus) Jesus said another would come (Holy Spirit)
Those who did not follow Moses died in the wilderness because of their lack of faith. Those who refused to follow Jesus died in the siege of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Jesus had warned them it was coming, and history shows that the Christians left right before the siege started because of the remembrance of the words of Jesus. Those who did not believe Jesus stayed and were either killed or sold to slavery.
Moses fed thousands supernaturally with bread. Jesus fed thousands supernaturally with bread.
Moses took a gentile bride Jesus took a gentile bride (the church)
Moses led the Israelites in a victory song after the victory in Egypt. This song will be repeated at the end as a victory song for Jesus. (see Rev. 15:2-3Open in Logos Bible Software (if available))
There is a long period of silence in the story of Moses from the time he was a child until adulthood. There is a long period of silence in the story of Jesus from the time he was a child until adulthood.
Moses showed compassion to a woman getting water at a well. Jesus showed compassion to a woman getting water at a well.
Moses’ mission was to redeem Israel from slavery to Egypt Jesus’ mission was to redeem mankind from slavery to sin.
Moses was loved and supported by his sister Miriam (which is Miryam in Hebrew) Jesus was loved and supported in his ministry by His mother Mary (which is also Miryam in Hebrew)
Moses gave God’s law on a mountain. Jesus gave the new law from the Mount of the Beatitudes. (sermon on the mount.)
Moses offered his life for the salvation of his people after the sin of the golden calf. Jesus offered His life for the salvation of the world.
Moses rejected a lavish, ruling lifestyle in the house of the Pharaoh. Instead, he chose a humble life. Jesus rejected the offers of Satan to be the ruler of this world and instead chose a humble life
Moses washed Aaron and his sons with water. Jesus washed the feet of his disciples.
Johan says
DACON9
Thanks for your exhaustive reply, though it doesn’t hold any water. May I know the following prophecy refers to whom?
Isaiah 9:6
For a child is born to us, a son is given to us. The government will rest on his shoulders. And he will be called: Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Though I am a dumb I tried hard to find out the person, from Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, David, Solomon, Muhammad, and up to Gandhi. I found only Jesus fits the above description.
Because He is a prince of peace, about 130 Christian majority countries live, comparatively in peace. Nelson Mandela, who was jailed for 27 years, was able to forgive the Botha government and their atrocities. Pope John Paul was able to place a letter asking for forgiveness at the ‘Wailing Wall’ Mother Theresa was able to work in Calcutta slums carrying the lepers with her bare hands.
Please let me know the person or prophet in your wisdom. I assure you that this will be my last post in this thread.