Yes, stopping or even slowing the Muslim migrant influx won’t stop native-born Muslims from waging jihad. Yes, some refugees have no intention of waging jihad or trying to impose Sharia norms over the law of the land. But the argument presented here is ridiculous: “We will not stop terrorism by kicking blameless families of refugees out of the country. This only radicalises would-be terrorists into thinking they are defending their own communities.”
Why is that ridiculous? Because essentially the same argument can be made about any or every counter-terror measure: it will only make “would-be terrorists” think they have to fight back to defend their communities, especially in light of the fact that jihad groups always marshal lists of grievances in order to recruit Muslims to jihad groups, since Islamic law mandates defensive jihad as a universal obligation when Muslims are under attack. Carrying the Independent’s logic to its conclusion, non-Muslim authorities should do nothing whatsoever to resist jihad, for doing anything would be “shamelessly Islamophobic” and “radicalize” “would-be terrorists.”
Sean O’Grady says “staying calm, living normally and refusing to attack Muslim friends and neighbours is the real way to defeat the terrorists.” The British government has been pursuing this policy for years. Yet it still hasn’t defeated the terrorists; not even close. Why?
“Focusing on whether the Parsons Green bomber was a refugee is shamelessly Islamophobic, not to mention pointless,” by Sean O’Grady, Independent, September 17, 2017:
We will not stop terrorism by kicking blameless families of refugees out of the country. This only radicalises would-be terrorists into thinking they are defending their own communities
When I saw the headline “Foster Kid is Bucket Bomber” in The Sun, with similar ones proliferating around the web, my heart sank. A teenage terrorist who may have been a child refugee and taken into foster care is being talked to by the police. It is a godsend to every single foreigner-hating Islamaphobe who will seize on this – our – national tragedy of a narrowly averted mass murder on a packed tube train and say “I told you so”.
It feeds the notion that there are terrorists in the midst of these refugees, including the younger ones, and offers the perfect excuse to ban them from entering this country, no matter how pitiful they appear. Such emotions and hatred are easy to provoke among some. Stop the refugees and other migrants coming in, so that argument runs, and you’ll have less terror. Some will go even further, claiming that if you “deport” the tens of thousands of suspects and individuals surveilled by the authorities you’ll be much closer to solving the problem. The heartbreaking thing is how many people will fall for this false logic and its seductive simplicity. It has to be answered, and not simply ignored or dismissed as casual racism.
Well, if only terrorism was that simple to fight. Since 9/11 and before we have seen how tighter borders and migration controls have done little to prevent terrorists taking their evil work across continents, if they’re intent enough. Terrorists can get visas: they don’t have to hide in lorries. They either enter countries illegally or perfectly legally, in fact, if they are not known to the authorities.
Alternatively, they are citizens born or naturalised in the very communities they attack, in which case immediate migration issues are not relevant. Sometimes their families are as well established as anyone’s, and the shock is as great to the parents as it is to the rest of the world. Terrorists come in many different forms: it is a great mistake to make assumptions about some profile or typical characteristic.
It is certainly true that many currently do what they do in the name of Islam. As has been said many times, but never enough, that this does not make Islam a violent or terrorist creed. It has nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with power and politics, as terrorism always has been….
Of course police and border procedures should be there to help prevent known killers moving freely, and arrest people smuggling AK-47s or buckets of chemicals. But even ending all movements across every border – Donald Trump’s “total and complete ban on Muslims” – would not and could not stop someone jumping into a car and mowing people down, whether in London or Baghdad. Or, indeed leaving a simply made concoction of chemicals on a train at Parsons Green. These attacks on Muslims only radicalise would-be terrorists into thinking they are defending their own communities. And so the spiral continues….
jihad3tracker says
Idiocy like the logic in this cretin’s article used to raise my blood pressure, but now I just shake my head and laugh at it.
jihad3tracker says
HOWEVER, IF YOU WANT TO SLAM MR. O’GRADY’S HEAD — metaphorically speaking, of course — into the wall of reality:
Send him a hotlink to Robert’s item above, and cite some verses from the Qur’an to address this in the 2nd to final paragraph —-
“It is certainly true that many currently do what they do in the name of Islam. As has been said many times, but never enough, that this does not make Islam a violent or terrorist creed. It has nothing to do with religion . . .”
Westman says
” It has nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with power and politics, as terrorism always has been”….Sean O’Grady
What this O’Grady dolt doesn’t realize is the fact that Islam makes no distinction between religion and politics – there is no separation.
Even Catholics can’t seem to believe that a religion could have such a grip on people that it could dictate political lives and actions against both free will and self-interest.
Thank goodness this jihad tube-bomb terrorist knew very little about chemistry and physics.
dumbledoresarmy says
Islam is *all about* power, this-worldly power.
Ex-Muslim Patrick Sookhdeo’s book “Faith, Power and Territory” makes that abundantly clear.
But someone called William Palgrave, way back in the mid-19th century, who knew Arabic, who had read the core Islamic texts and much else besides, who had travelled in the dar al Islam – even to the Hijaz, the heartland of Islam – put it in a nutshell, long before that. In James Freeman Clarke’s “Ten Great Religions”, in his chapter “Mohammed and Islam”, he cites Palgrave on the subject of the Muslim conception of ‘god’. And Palgrave’s phrase runs thus – “a pantheism of force”.
I understand that Hassan al-Banna described Islam as “the religion of domination”.
Allah is nothing but raw amoral Force, deified.
mortimer says
Mr. O’Grady, there are ENOUGH terrorists born in the UK.
WHY IMPORT MORE TERRORISTS?
Here’s the point, Mr. O’Grady: Only a MUSLIM can become a MUSLIM TERRORIST, because only a MUSLIM BELIEVES in Sharia law, the duty of jihad and the WARLIKE EXAMPLE of Mohammed.
Mr. O’Grady, ‘IT’S THE IDEOLOGY, STUPID’ !
Santa Voorhees says
The best way to solve a problem is to defend the problem.
– Liberal logic.
gravenimage says
To defend the problem–or to demand that everyone ignore it and pretend it does not exist.
Japetto Donatelli says
Man, you said it. It reads like something a 7th grader might write for social studies. The reasoning is too loose and dumb to be taken seriously. At least he was honest in one regard,
It is certainly true that many currently do what they do in the name of Islam.
..but then contradicts himself with, but “that this does not make Islam a violent or terrorist creed.” But of course that’s exactly why it is a violent creed because the “many” he refers to are only doing what the religion commands. Muslims do their violence because islam has violent political aspirations, it’s called “jihad.” You can’ t defend the one while accusing the other, they are both equally guilty.
The “moderate and peaceful” muslims are a big part of the problem with the support they provide the terrorists. These “nice” muslims don’t have to engage in violent acts to incite terror, there are more subtle forms of support at their disposal. Everything muslims do to maintain their own culture in our nation(s) provides terrorists with all the motivation they need to justify attacking us. And there are more direct forms of support too, like militant preaching, money given to “charity,” or political lobbying. Terrorists don’t commit violence for the sake of violence, they are working to advance the cause of islam. Well guess what, so are the peaceful moderates. The symbiotic relationship between the terrorists and the “peaceful” muslims is thoroughly implied if not expressly stated. And why shouldn’t they support each other? they both want the same thing: their own islamic culture where sharia reigns supreme. If the worst aspects of islam were a puzzle it would consist of 2 pieces, them and them.
gravenimage says
+1
mortimer says
WHAT DOES BEING “REFUGEE” have to do with being a “MUSLIM TERRORIST”?
Many of the terrorists in UK were BORN IN UK.
Message for “INDEPENDENT” : It’s the IDEOLOGY, stupid!
gravenimage says
Entirely true, Mortimer–but the fact that so many Muslim “refugees” are Jihad terrorists means that the flood of Mohammedans into Britain needs to be stopped now.
Anne Smith says
Graven image is quite correct. In fact this tube train bomber claimed to be a refugee but his status is definitely suspect. Most of the so called refugees are merely economic migrants and the fact that he was sent to a foster home demonstrated clearly that he was one of the gang of Calais deceivers who all claimed to be orphans under 18, and were allowed in without any age specific checks.because of the deafening outcry of the do-gooders on TV and in the media.
When age checks were suggested the deafening outcry rose up again – when are we going to stop listening to these left wing congenitally stupid actor luvvies and their pals in the media?
Lydia says
They are hopelessly ‘realityphobics’!
Ostriches to the bitter end!
“Don’t blame the assailants and attackers! That is ‘islamophobic!”
… is their rallying cry.
Their banner reads:
“Keep calm and carry on…” (KABOOM!)
Well, I guess ignoring the problem did not make it go away after all…
so much for ‘Plan A,’ when are they ready for Plan B?
Wanna bet it’s ‘never’?
Lydia says
Oh and I should add that they are:
SHAMELESSLY IGNORANT TRUTHOPHOBES!!!
mortimer says
INDEPENDENT is TRUTHOPHOBIC, REALITYPHOBIC, FACT-O-PHOBIC and ACCURACY-PHOBIC.
BIG NEWS for the INDEPENDENT and Mr. O’Grady: ISLAMIC TERRORISTS DON’T NEED A ‘GRIEVANCE’ to hate us. Kafirs are HATED by Muslims because they do not accept Mohammed.
Koran 40:35 “They who dispute the signs (verses) of Allah without authority having reached them are greatly hated by Allah and the believers.”
Koran 48:29: “Muhammad is God’s apostle. Those who follow him are violent to the unbelievers, but compassionate to one another.”
Koran 4: 101 “The kuffar are for you a clear enemy.”
Koran 8:60 “Terrorize the enemy of Allah and your enemy”
underbed cat says
lydia….I never heard the term reality phobic…..that is it exactly…..no curiosity no interest to know the truth….as if that will protect themselves from the reality of jihad…that will not work well long term. I too sometimes feel overwhelmed by the reality…but I know it is still a reality as I see it unfolding and growing in my town.
Lydia says
These “leaders” of the wild West are a shameful disgrace to their constituents that they represent and have betrayed and sold out for globalist agendas!
Lydia says
And the ‘media’ as well, and organizations like the SPLC, and all the rest who support these lies, propaganda, and betrayals against innocent people!
Carlos Danger says
…including quisling “entertainers”, “faith leaders” and “intellectuals”.
A la lanterne!
Mike Wolff says
Breathtaking stupidity: he says, “It feeds the notion that there are terrorists in the midst of these refugees”.
It’s not a “notion”, but a reality that doesn’t need to be fed – these two are proof that there ARE terrorists in the midst of these refugees, are they not??
Michael Copeland says
O’Grady uses patronising disparagement in the word “notion”, as if it is a fantasy. Can someone tell him that Islamic State made a point of ANNOUNCING that terrorists were being sent to Europe amongst the refugees? So much for O’Grady’s “notion”.
underbed cat says
I would guess that is the genius of the use of the argument, ” the halt of muslim migration of ‘refugees’ will inflame potential terrorist and that would make it worse.”..will only show to the degree politicians and public can have their attention taken away from the doctrine that really causes terror and is taught in the mosques, safely away from the eyes of the public and authorities who make these assumptions. For a if any unknown American muslim family who owns a Quran to state….we are “shocked”, that they did not know they were radicalized seems a bit bizarre….since it is in the pages of the book they must have never read…or the mosque they never visit or the support of zakat they never pay. ? So flood the country with young men who do? Part of the migration is for population growth which converts into votes and power and someday another country taken down which is the plan..with a 1400 year history of conquering by sword and deception, the deception to be tolerant and peaceful…Islam is Islam, and that includes warfare, just ask Erdogan of Turkey…no he won’t say it for the ears of the west, who do not know the meaning at the U.N. only for the muslim ummah of the OIC. Very clever.
Kiki says
There’s nothing Islamophobic about noticing the refugee thing….especially since it very well could turn out to be the reason the bombers got into the UK. People need to hear the truth, even if it’s hard to accept.
If there were massive amounts of refugees from, say, Australia, going into Jordan and the mass-rapes and terror attacks started happening on a large scale, the Jordanians would have a right to question the refugees from Australia.
So too, do westerners have the right to question the effects of middle-eastern refugees on their countries.And if it’s causing problems–which it is–they have a right to point it out.
Carlos Danger says
People like this tosser, O’Grady, are sooooo desperate to believe. They simply can not bring themselves to admit that the great & good in Europe have bet the farm on multiculturalism, and that their horse has broken it’s leg on the very first jump.
gravenimage says
Here’s more vicious idiocy from Sean O’Grady:
“The Sun can’t pretend saying we have a ‘Muslim Problem’ isn’t reminiscent of Nazi propaganda”
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/the-muslim-problem-islamophobia-ira-northern-ireland-racism-fuelling-hatred-a7894691.html
Never mind that the Nazis were *lying* about the Jews, who were not harming Germans, and committing genocide against them–whereas Muslims *really are* raping and murdering us, and we are considered “Nazis” merely for objecting to innocent people being raped and murdered. Madness.
LeftisruiningCanada says
The writers focus on the immigrant/refugee side of this is a bit of a distraction for sure. As said above, the elephant in the room is the Islam. It also doesn’t help that Isis SAID they would sneak their guys in as refugees.
Santa Voorhees says
“Some will go even further, claiming that if you “deport” the tens of thousands of suspects and individuals surveilled by the authorities you’ll be much closer to solving the problem. The heartbreaking thing is how many people will fall for this false logic and its seductive simplicity. It has to be answered, and not simply ignored or dismissed as casual racism.”
Oh, exactly what Italy is doing: Deport at the slightest suspicion, yet no terror attacks so far.
On the contrary, in UK jihadists roam free and they got 4 attacks this year alone.
Logic and leftists do not go hand in hand apparently…
gravenimage says
If you have Muslims, you will have Jihad. No Muslims, no Jihad. It is very simple.
John A. Marre says
I’m Islamophobic. That means “fear” Islam. Islam is a violent ideology that has inspired countless murders. Yes, fearing it is reasonable.
Michael Copeland says
Islam INSTRUCTS` “Strike terror into their hearts”. Muslims are commanded to make non-muslims fear Islam.
gravenimage says
Independent: Focusing on London Tube bomber’s refugee status “shamelessly Islamophobic”
……………………………
Acknowledging that Muslims flooding into the West want to murder us is “Islamophobic”. Instead, we are supposed to pretend that this is not so.
More:
We will not stop terrorism by kicking blameless families of refugees out of the country. This only radicalises would-be terrorists into thinking they are defending their own communities
……………………………
How incoherent is this? If Jihadists are trying to slaughter us, then they are *not* “blameless families of refugees”.
Moreover, this is claiming–as we have heard so often before–that the cause of Jihad terror is our being concerned over Jihad terror. If we just pretended it did not exist, then we would not be causing it. Never mind that this makes no sense.
More:
When I saw the headline “Foster Kid is Bucket Bomber” in The Sun, with similar ones proliferating around the web, my heart sank. A teenage terrorist who may have been a child refugee and taken into foster care is being talked to by the police. It is a godsend to every single foreigner-hating Islamaphobe who will seize on this – our – national tragedy of a narrowly averted mass murder on a packed tube train and say “I told you so”.
……………………………
Let’s parse this, shall we? This idiot is not concerned that teenage Muslims–or those *passing* as teenagers–are being cared for by foster families, yet are plotting to mass murder us.
Instead, their only concern is that some “Islamophobes” might point out that this is indeed a danger.
Also, note that if you have an issue with Jihadists murdering you that you are a “foreigner-hating Islamaphobe”. If we only came to ignore this–or, better yet, *welcome* being murdered by invading Muslims, all would be well…sarc/off
I wonder about leftists says
The bad thing about all this, because of the leftists/globalists/feminists, whatever you want to call them, that they sold us out too, and we have to live within all the damage they dragged us in.
And in the end they will state: WE ARE SO SHOCKED AND DID NOT KNOW HOW BAD IT BECAME, AND THEY WILL PUT FLOWERS SOMEWHERE CANDLES AND TEDDY BEARS ON THE STREET.
And that was the end of that. Thanks a lot leftists.
mgoldberg says
I feel ashamed to say that punching out the author of the article for his insipid lack of logic, his self deception disorder and his lack of honor, defending the principles of right and wrong would make me fell a whole lot better.
To whit: the amount, number and inherent support by Islam of Islamic homicidists, indicts Islam. Muslims should be ashamed of their ‘faith’ of these monsters of mass murder, but…. they aren’t. They actually subscribe to the notion that any noting of these monstrosities of humanity thru the ages, across history is a sign of oppression of muslims, when… in fact it is a reasonable understanding of homicidism to note from where it derives. And the author is another denier of reality, of decency, and of the standards of behavior, right and wrong, that all other religions observe… all except the religion of pieces.
mortimer says
Dear Goldberg, why don’t you put the anger energy into a polite letter to O’Grady that explains logically why he is wrong?
You may be the one who finally gets the truth into his closed mind.
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
polezni durak
mortimer says
By not naming the MOTIVE of the bomber, INDEPENDENT is TRUTHOPHOBIC or ACCURACY-O-PHOBIC.
Tom Billesley says
Not to focus on their refugee status, but a total of five men have now been arrested over the Parsons Green bucket bomb. The two arrests in England were followed by three arrests in Newport, South Wales. Two of the three, aged 30 and 48, were detained in a 5:10 am raid this morning. They lived in what was described by neighbours as a Home Office “halfway house” for asylum seekers.
South Wales Argus:
http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/15545252.Three_Newport_men_have_been_arrested_over_Parsons_Green_London_Underground_terror_attack
martin says
Sean O’Grady says “staying calm, living normally and refusing to attack Muslim friends..
Treasounous genocide enabler by ignorance (doubtful with so much info now), likely by cowardice…
Is if that he does not know that muslims know allah said if a muslim takes (genuinely) a non muslim as a friend then allah says the muslim is of them, the kuffar (a word similar to the racist n word) and going to hell.
Now for the muslim to just make out they are a friend for the purpose of disguise/decepion,… thats holy in islam.
thesailor says
“we will not stop terror in London by kicking blameless families of Syrians out of the country”
He is right there. Even families of Syrians who aren’t blameless are not the cause of Islamic terrorism. Islam – the vile ideology that brainwashes them – is. You will certainly stop Islamic terror in London if you kick Islam out of the country. I presume that logical conclusion escapes the demented, candy-floss Lefties.
There must surely be some explanation for the fact that people with seemingly sufficient intelligence to spell their own names fall over, wide-eyed and frothing at the mouth, at the merest hint of even the most rational criticism of Islam? There is something going on here that transcends even Lefty stupidity; it is like a strange Science Fiction movie. This review of District 9 is worth pondering on:
“… it is hard to believe that anyone could be tolerant if an alien spacecraft arrived on Earth carrying over a million of those repellent giant lobsters uninvited.”
Different cultures need something in common if they are to rub along together in the same community, and I see no more commonality between Islam and the West than that reviewer saw between giant alien lobsters and the earthlings. We must not be deluded by the fact we have the same numbers of arms and legs (ignoring for the moment the tragic results of centuries of moronic Islamic in-breeding).
Ban Islam; demolish the mosques; deport the Imams – that will stop terror in London, and everywhere else in Britain; not to mention the Islamic subjugation of the British people. Then this idiotic ‘writer’ can go back to sneering at those who plod out to work to support their families. Even Red Riding Hood figured out that the Wolf had taken over her Grandma, but instead of an axe-wielding forester we get this.
Greyhound Fancier says
This silly woman is making our case! Since you can’t figure out which of the mohammedans are going to “go jihad”, why fall for their claims of needed to refugee to Europe?
Why aren’t the Middle Eastern mohammedans taking care of the refugees? They would be better off near to their home to wait out the war, then they can rebuild and resume care of their homes and property (what ever their co-religionists have left to them).
The true refugees are the Christians, who have been persecuted to death and slavery in Syria. But no, we won’t let them come to the US or Europe – the bully boy mohammedans have to be accomodated.