See? What was that you were saying about Islam and women’s rights, you greasy Islamophobe? Now Islam has shown its true, moderate colors, right?
Wrong. Saudi women still can’t leave home without permission from a male guardian. They still are subject to being beaten for their perceived disobedience, with no recourse. They can be divorced at a word. They receive a smaller share of the inheritance. Their testimony is worth half that of a man. They must cover their heads when they do venture out or be subject to arrest. All that is based on Islamic law. King Salman?
“Saudi Arabia: King Salman orders driving licenses for women,” Al Arabiya, September 26, 2017:
Saudi Arabia’s King Salman has issued a historic royal decree granting driving licenses for women in the kingdom as of next June.
The royal decree issued on Tuesday also ordered the establishment of a high-level committee of involving the ministries of internal affairs, finance, labor and social development. They will be tasked with studying the arrangements to enforce the new law.
“The royal decree will implement the provisions of traffic regulations, including the issuance of driving licenses for men and women alike,” the Saudi Press Agency said.
mariam rove says
Big f..deal. They are still a bunch of backwards Muslims. M
PRCS says
I can imagine the jokes.
RonaldB says
I’m happy for the women of Saudi Arabia. I wish Muslim women all the best…over there. As long as they’re not here, the sky’s the limit, and I oppose any move by the US to interfere with Muslim or Arab affairs. Let’s remember Muslim women wore miniskirts in Afghanistan not too long ago, Iranian women went without veils, Libyan women were valued members of the armed forces, etc, etc.
But, Muslim women should still not be mistaken as allies, and should stay in their own countries.
gravenimage says
Ronald, I agree with your post, especially re Muslim women not being our allies.
One point, though–it is not the US that is preventing Muslim women from being free in Dar-al-Islam. That is Islam itself.
mortimer says
Saudi women will soon be able to drive automotive suicide bombs.
gravenimage says
Grim but probably accurate.
Voytek Gagalka says
Reform? WHAT “reform”?! If they still cannot leave their home without male guardian, then that so called “reform” is a pure illusion, as they will NOT be allowed to drive ALONE, i.e., without watchful supervision and being immediately beaten if making slightest error or taking the “wrong turn.” And then again they will be subject of “ban on driving” REGARDLESS of what the king “salmon” says.
Bev says
Yes all women must be kept on a leash like an unruly pet. Don’t you know they only have 1/4 of brain as compared to men. I don’t know how they are going to see to make sure they’re clear of other drivers what with all the head covered. My son who worked for the Saudi govt on F15’s told me that they never seat belt their children in, have never heard of car seats and basically if there’s a wreck the kids get thrown all over the car. My son referred to them as Saudi airbags. And they like to drive big American cars.
We need to keep these people out of the United States. Islam is completely antithetical to our Constitutional republic.
gravenimage says
I don’t imagine the women–even in Niqabs–would be worse drivers than Muslim men, who are the most aggressive and incompetent drivers in the world.
Chris Malan says
I don’t know about Muslim men in other countries, but in Saudi Arabia it is true.; It is a nightmare driving in Saudi Arabia. But it is not only the Saudis, its Pakis, Filipinos, Bangladeshis, and from wherever the foreign workers come. Most of them degenerate to drive just as badly as the Saudis do. One night a convoy of cars, led by a male nurse from NZ (he knew where the place was) went to a restaurant. The bastard drove at 120Km/h (70mph) through the town, built up and all that. I gave him a severe talking to.
My wife drove the Jeep Cherokee I had a bit in the compound over a weekend. Even she had no desire to drive on the public roads. Accidents were common and there were many vegetables in what they called LTC – the long-term care ward. I had to go there when they had problems with tracheostomies. They marry first cousins, so there were also a few inbreeding disasters. It was like Dante’s Inferno. No reason why Saudi women should want to drive there.
gravenimage says
Thanks for the ugly view on the ground, Chris. I have heard similar thing s about the rest of Dar-al-Islam. I know that driving in Cairo is supposed to be the most dangerous city in the world.
El Cid says
Did you read the article?
Nothing has changed at all. The woman still cannot drive.
mortimer says
If a woman goes out without ‘PERMISSION’ from her husband to get some groceries, her husband can in theory ask for her to be arrested. Then he can BEAT HER UP when she gets back.
A lot of these new drivers will get in the car and drive as far away as possible. Half the country will disappear from prison overnight.
Sarah says
God I cannot stomach Saudi Arabia. Such a cesspit, roiling with decadence much like an infection that is bubbling sickening pus everywhere.
This is not a win for the women of Saudi Arabia. This will help the uber rich ones to give gifts of cars to each other – and safely motor around their vast estates at 10km per hour, whilst a man sits in the front seat next to them, shrieking instructions.
Hell – you know those cars used for driving instruction lessons? Where the teacher has dual control pedals that override the driving seat pedals if needed?
Watch those become readily available and commonly used. Remember – if women drive, it messes up their ovaries! And men might be overcome with sadistic lust if they see a woman driving by. And then fitna occurs!
I’m not applauding anything done by that fat bastard draped in a teatowel.
manat bint allaha says
show me something good coming from arabs.
Sarah says
My thoughts exactly. They do not create anything positive, innovate anything positive, research and develop anything positive.
They take, they steal and they grow fat and decadent on the achievements of the rest of the species solely thanks to oil money.
The only things they offer to the world are their natural resources, sadism, cruelty, primitive ignorance and brutality, greed and shocking breeding rates.
Oh and Islam. We have the Arabs to thank for Islam.
Jenny H says
A lot of Arabs tried to leave Islam after the death of Muhammad and were slaughtered or terrorised into rejoining. There are also Christian Arabs and Atheist Arabs and brave ex-Muslim Arabs.
I’ve heard that Arabs are a very hospitable people, and I have heard there is a nifty tower system to direct cooling breezes down to the ground below in markets in some Arab countries. I don’t know whether the Arabs invented it, but it sounds pretty good and practical.. Printed Arabic script can look very beautiful – not always that fussy, overdone decorative calligraphy, but there is a certain style of printed Arabic which is delicate and lovely.
That doesn’t change the fact that there are many aspects to Islam which I find disgusting and ugly.
gravenimage says
The problem is not Arabs, but Islam.
Brigitte Gabriel is Arab, and she is a brave Anti-Jihadist.
Sarah says
Graven – Islam comes from Arab culture. Everywhere you look in Islam, its practices, ideas, values – are all drawn from Arab culture – back when Mohammed was alive – and Arab culture today is virtually indistinguishable from Arab culture in many respects, from back then.
Brigitte Gabriel is a remarkable woman – I’m quite fond of her and her no nonsense attitude – she’s someone I respect greatly – and I’m always quite pleased whenever I see a new interview from her, pop up on Youtube. She is someone I’d dearly love to meet and shake her hand, one day.
Try this article, rather than me blathering on all day :). Its a good starting point as to the viewpoint I hold regarding Arab culture.
https://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21606284-civilisation-used-lead-world-ruinsand-only-locals-can-rebuild-it
Islam is a fundamental issue within Arab culture – but its not the only issue.
Expat88 says
Actually Brigitte Gabriel is not an Arab. The Christians were Syriac and generally never intermarried with the with the Arab invasion. The only thing Arabic about her is that she speaks the Arabic language and lived in Lebanon which had part of the population mixed with Muslim Arabs.
gravenimage says
Sarah, it is true that Islam is Arab supremacist, and that Islam grew out of Dark Ages barbarian Arab culture.
But I don’t want people to confuse being Arab–which is an ethnicity, and intrinsic–with Islam, which is an ideology, and adopted.
Some Arabs–Christians and Muslim apostates–are quite civilized. And non-Arab Muslims are as savage as their Arab coreligionists. That is the point I was making.
As for the Economist’s claim that Arab culture used to “lead the world”, this is questionable to begin with. This is more of the “Golden Age of Islam” canard. Most of the scholars and other prominent people from this period were conquered peoples.
If you want another “Islamic Golden Age”, just let Islam conquer the West…
Ahmed says
How this lucky women pictures will show up in their driver license? They all covered their face?
gravenimage says
Moderate Islam breaks out in Saudi Arabia: King allows women to drive
…………………..
I remember an American English teacher in Saudi Arabia, with an all-male class of teenagers and young men. He mentioned the idea of women driving in passing, and the Saudi students all said it could never happen.
He asked why, expecting comments about women’s competence or “modesty”–to his utter shock, all the students in class chimed in that if a woman ever broke down or had an accident and had to get out of the vehicle, that she would be gang-raped by virtually every man driving by–and that many of them would also call their friends to join in the rape.
Has any of this changed? I doubt it.
Gen Jones says
Good point, Graven. Also imagine if the emergency services actually showed up. They’d have to look under an accident victim’s niquab to treat her. Muslim husbands have preferred their wives to die than be treated by a male doctor. Imagine the mind set of a man who can’t imagine a doctor’s ability to look at a human body without being overcome with lust. There’s great stories of cops here in NYC helping deliver babies in cars on the way to the hospital. This is usually followed by a photo of smiling mom, dad, baby and police officers. What’s normal and beautiful in most of the world is dirty in the Islamic one.
WPM says
It is amazing that in the male Islamic mind any interaction that has to do with a female that is not related to them is rape. That all females must be guarded, hidden ,lock away, not spoken to by strangers what a tortured crippled culture Islam is. No wonder that Islam has invented nothing, has no culture outside of praying and violence. They are too busy either guarding , walling off, beating up their women in their “culture circle” 24 hours a day or trying to rape women outside of their “culture circle”. All that energy for a penis power religion , I am a male myself and I cannot wrap my head around the idea. The most insecure males in world must be the true followers of Islam, all the art ,music ,poems ,plays ,stories about male and female interactions missing. All the talk ,joking ,listening ,laughing with female friends, workers ,every day interactions missing. They try to fill the void with hate ,lust , and power the void only grows larger in their poor shrinking souls. Their emotion growth of an true adult Islamic male is less developed then a 4 year old. I do not envy the Islam male I pity him for his loss of missing the better part of what it means to be alive.
gravenimage says
Fine posts, Gen and WPM. The contrast between the Muslim world and the civilized West is night and day.
Westman says
Buh, buh, but Saudi cleric Sheikh Saad al-Hijri said women shouldn’t drive because of only having 1/4 of male brainpower. What’s next, hiding the toothbrush beating stick? Only one wife? It’s too much to contemplate!
Karen says
Yes, it’s the decline and fall of Rome all over again. Before you know it, women will be peeling off the top 6 yards of fabric when it hits 120F. Scandalous.
manat bint allaha says
still no word if saudi women can take a shower with their clothes off and the bathroom lights on?
Karen says
Baby steps! June 2035.
gravenimage says
What is supposed to happen then?
And women’s rights are not improving in many parts of Dar-al-Islam, but getting worse. Just see how many more women are immured in Niqabs and Burqas in many parts of the Muslim world now than they were in the 20th century.
Karen says
Agreed, I’m very cynical about all of this, which I see as mainly window dressing. They give up nothing allowing a woman to drive, because the “scientific Koran” never forbad women driving. But let’s see if they ever lessen their vice grip on women in any meaningful ways. June 2035, perhaps? Or never?
Raja says
I guess we have to wait and watch as we all know how Islam in all its form is anti human and anti liberty. Thiry king and his subjects have been belligerently promoting Islam and its terror.ideology ably supported by clerics and their bull-headed followers.
I don’t understand how we can be hopeful or optimistic that “moderate Islam has broker out”?
Raja says
correction: Thiry should read their and broker should read broken.
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
Before: A woman caught driving would be arrested by the police and could face charges.
After: A woman caught driving would be beaten to within an inch of her life by her father, brothers and/or husband.
This is how the Saudi royal family walks the thin line between stupid Western leadership and their salafist population.
Karen says
Interesting….could very well be, unfortunately. Sounds like there is going to be some enforcement but it also seems unlikely they’d rock the marital boat.
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
The point of my post is that nothing has changed. Just like Saudi Arabia’s making slavery illegal in the sixties. Nothing really changed. In practice, there is still slavery there because it is in line with the prevailing ideology.
Karen says
The “scientific” Koran must have foreseen the automobile, because it does nor explicitly forbid women from driving. (This is the argument that I’m sure is being framed behind these scenes right now in KSA. So, the male dominated kingdom gives up no real power by allowing this trivial concession. But would they allow a woman any true equality in contravention of the Koran? Hardly. So, this is a nice but trivial concession that cost the rulers nothing. Fancy window dressing.
Karen says
“Saudi Arabia’s King Salman has issued a historic royal decree granting driving licenses for women in the kingdom as of next June.”
Yeah….let’s not do something today. That would be scarey.
Hey, you’re king! Make it effective next week!
mike9a says
if it ever sees light of the day it almost two centuries late
tim gallagher says
What a joke this tiny concession is. Islam is only several thousand years behind the non-Muslim world in every regard. How have people in Muslim countries remained so unevolved in all aspects of life? The deadening weight of setting in place a grotesquely backward religion and then saying the neanderthal rubbish is just perfect (as in straight from god) and can’t be changed. Oh, and, of course, above all, endless threats of violence and murder for anyone who tries to leave the primitive load of rubbish behind, or challenge any of its garbage. Places like Saudi Arabia really are like looking back in time thousands of years. It’s bizarre. Such a disgusting country.
Janakiraman Rajalakshmi says
What is there to cheer ? Expect more vehicular jihadism from muslim womenfolk.
G P says
Requirements for saudi women drivers:
■ niqab
■ really dark tinted windows
■ male escort or written permission
■ kill switch remote kept by jailer
■ no refuelling unless jailer gives permission via skype with 5 gallon maximum
■ Speed limiters
■ ankle bracelet with timer in case she shops for too long with back-up detonator for disobedience
Expat88 says
I lived in Saudi Arabia for many years and the male drivers were dangerous and crazy on the road. There were many accidents because the roads were good and the cars were modern and the speed limits were not enforced. And of course they couldn’t blame the bad traffic accident statistics on women drivers. It was very frustrating and dangerous to drive there. Gradually the traffic became worse and the roads in the cities became very congested. So now I cannot imagine what it will be like with many women drivers and more cars on the roads eventually. Since they will not have good peripheral vision if they are wearing hijab, it will be dangerous. Plus a lot of the women there are very childlike and helpless and would not know how to handle emergencies. I am sure a lot of the taxi companies will go out of business down the road. There are thousands of drivers from other countries who drive women around. So a lot of those drivers will be repatriating back to their own countries and it will be difficult for them losing those jobs.
gravenimage says
See? Strict Shari’ah is an economic boon…sarc/off
Bsrat says
What a joke they still need to fast forward by 1400 yrs !!!
ms. driver says
1. With cars becoming more and more automatic, soon they’ll drive themselves and no-one will have to drive at all.
2. What will the penalties be for driving infractions — for females ?
Anne Smith says
How safe is it to drive wearing a burka? In SA they also often wear a sort of horrible nose covering which sticks out like a beak which cannot facilitate the peripheral vision.
The news media here in UK is presenting this as some sort of triumph for the “forward looking” King Salman against the hard line Islamic clerics. We shall see.
Expat88 says
The beak-like face covering is called a Batoola, and is usually worn by Bedouin women mostly in the Gulf States such as Oman UAE Bahrain Kuwait and a little bit in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. They also call it a burqa. It is made out of leather with colored silk covering it which makes it look metallic and shiny in texture and appearance. It mimics the features of a Falcons beak. It is very strange looking and comes in different colors and styles.
FYI says
Such a rule banning women from driving.
let’s be honest:it was invented by some “holy” man,on behalf of his god allah, was it not?
It is certainly not the case that the actual God would be so silly as to prevent women from driving…or demand that they wear burqas and hijabs…
Janakiraman Rajalakshmi says
Jokes apart , Arabs drive very well. They drive with panache. In general I have heard men make better drivers than women.
It is only in India many drive after ingesting alcohol & cause lot of accidents.
Expat88 says
I am sorry but the Arabs do not drive very well. They are considered a menace at home and abroad. I know this from first-hand experience. The biggest problem is that they have no consideration for anybody else on the road because of their narcissistic personality disorder, which they demonstrate behind-the-wheel. This makes them very dangerous. Also the young boys have nothing to do with their time and so they engage in a lot of hot rodding and races and basically take huge risks with their driving. It is very frightening.
Janakiraman Rajalakshmi says
You would know better. I am a housewife & step out very rarely.
Yes they are very violent , restless ultra restless . Forever in a jihadi mode.
gravenimage says
I’m sorry, Janakiraman–Muslim countries are regularly ranked as the most dangerous places in the world to drive.
Christina Hadleigh says
They are all barbarians still living in the past with modern technology, but the two will never be compatible.
Susette says
Oh my, Saudi Arabia is heading down that slippery slope into the 21st century. I think the only reason this happened is because Saudi men were sick and tired of being dragged from thier idle lives to drive thier womenfolk around, or they are tired of paying for drivers.
In any case, it will be interesting to see how women handle this bit o’ independence, and how well they can drive ensconced in thier full-body shrouds. Peripheral vision, quick movement of hands and feet is necessary to safe driving. They will lack both.
Screeminmeeme says
Of course the women will be limited to just driving around the block…..but, hey…..progress is progress. Next thing ya know they’ll be allowed to breathe the same air as the men.
Karen says
LOL, great post!
Arnold Jackson says
Here are some thing women are still not allowed to do in Saudi Arabia (according to another news source) without male permission:
Apply for passports
Travel abroad
Get married
Open a bank account
Start certain businesses
Get elective surgery
Leaving prison
Hanna Mantour says
even if they allow all of this I don’t think I will call them moderates until I see church and all non Muslims treated as equal citizens.
Brian Hoff says
All christian in Arabic. Convert to Islam in the 7th century.