The cross is offensive to Muslims, since the Qur’an says that Jesus did not die on the cross: “And their saying, ‘Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah.’ And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but another was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.” (4:157)
And so the crosses are going to have to go, all over the new, diverse, multicultural Europe. Must not offend the poor dears.
“Italy: Migrant climbes [sic] Christmas tree to remove its cross,” Voice of Europe, December 24, 2017:
A 21-year-old Gambian was arrested, while he was trying to remove the cross from a Christmas tree in the Italian city of Milan, yesterday.
The Christmas tree, located at the “Piazza Duca D’Aosta”, is in front of the city’s Central Station. According to Italian media, the migrant wanted to remove the cross because for him “it was not good”.
Police reacted quickly and forced the man to abort his attempt. The African was identified and taken to the police station. He will be charged with causing aggravated damage….
John van Doodewaard says
This once again demonstrates the folly of Europe’s open door immigration policy. By accepting Muslim migrants hostile to Christian culture we are exposing ourselves to attack from within our borders.
Save Europe says
Judging by your name – greetings from a Brit who lived in your great country, the Netherlands, for so many years. Re your comment – the Koranderthal should be deported, posthaste!
roger woodhouse says
Time to fight back is nearing.Islam must be exposed for the evil it is and drummed out of Europe.Whose going to lead the charge?Not any of our current politicians it seems.Stop voting for them would be a start.
covnanny says
In England, if an English person did this against any Islamic article of faith, they would be charged with a Hate Crime and dragged before a court. They would very likely be given a very stiff sentence, perhaps even jailing. In fact if an English person did anything to “offend” any minority group they would probably be charged with a Hate Crime.
Bob says
AgreedI find the crescent. and star, the symbols of allah, the moon god most offensive!
cyrus basile says
mohamMERD born 666
maghan says
That is one stupid Gambian. There are churches in the Gambia with crosses on their roofs. How come the fool didn’t climb them to remove the crosses. Second, if a cross offends him so much, why travel to Italy rather than Saudi Arabia?
What else but a stupid degenerate black, mentally enslaved by savage and primitive Arab Islam. The jackass raisin-head has no shame because he doesn’t understand his servile slave status to Arab Islam,
BlowMe says
“That is one stupid Gambian.”
Since the average Gambian IQ is 66, I’d say he’s a typical Gambian as well.
gravenimage says
He is here with his fellow Muslims to conquer Italy and the rest of the West.
And he may well have been involved in violence against Christians in Gambia.
WESTPAC Spy says
He didn’t move to Saudi Arabia because the Saudi and Gulf State governments have the good sense to not allow a single “migrant” co-religionist into their countries. They have not accepted a single “refugee.” They know who they are. And they think we’re idiots for allowing them in.
Seriously. I thought this was a refugee crisis caused by the war in Syria. What’s Europe thinking? Do they think the Syrian civil war involves Gambia?
David says
The Gambian probably thought the cross was made of ghetto gold and wanted to hook it to chain to make a necklace.
Andy says
I just hope that moslem who climbed that Christmas tree “Saw the light”!!!!!
Marina says
And will be released soon
cyrus basile says
No, depends on the judge, if left the monkey is postponed in the streets, if it is a normal judge will be ejected with accompaniment by plane in 24 hours
D Austin says
What a coincidence, Satan is also offended by the cross…that should tell you something about Muslims!
CogitoErgoSum says
Yes, quite a coincidence. The cross is a problem for Satan, vampires and Muslims ….. oh my!
Save Europe says
….and bacon is to Muslims, as Garlic is to vampires.
Musalmaanmasala says
You are wrong. The Cross is to Muslims as Garlic is to vampires 🙂
gravenimage says
The cross is to Muslims pretty much as the cross is to vampires.
abad says
Italy needs to deport this Jihadi all the way back to Gambia
DK says
Just mental health issues.
DFD says
Isn’t it strange?
——————–
Before the recent elections, which we had in Europe, there were of course the usual polls. And somewhere between approx 65% and 80% of those polled, stated that they were fed up with the current situation, they worried about immigrant crime, terrorism, Islam, etc. And expressed that they wanted change.
Then came the elections, and what happened? The exact opposite result! Strange, no?
And even stranger, there were massive “errors” in the various postal votes. Many of these votes were then “correctly re-assigned”. But even though, this is very strange, don’t you think? Of course Erika Merkel, sorry, Angela Merkel (“Erika” was her STASI code name) wouldn’t do anything wrong, would she? Same or similar in France with LePen – and other places too.
In Germany the alternative media and the AfD urged the people to provide election observers, in many places they did. And they found in the polling stations a lot of these ‘discrepancies’, requiring recounts and other measures. I wonder what the results would have been if they had observers in all localities. The press reported about this, in the following manner: “…so called (sic) ‘election observers’ were ***creeping about*** … causing discomfort and insecurity among the voters … one does not know how many voters were intimidated by these ***characters***…” and so and so forth.
I have a question, does anybody really believe that once we have the right parties in place, things will change, like with Donald Trump for instance. OK, OK. Well, he kept two election promises, a time limit until ex-members of congress can get a lobby job, and the US embassy to Jerusalem – WHOOPEEE!
OK, let us assume that by magic, or fair and true elections, the likes of the AfD, LePen etc. come to power. Now what?!
Here is what will happen, they will make laws to stop the ***illegal*** immigration. But what about those enrichers and diversifiers which are already among us? So, they will make laws to deport them.
Two scenarios: 1) They pack and leave, who knows, they probably will also tell the police were all those weapons caches are. The Mujahideen training camps in the US, a few years ago there were about 50 of these, will be abandoned. The mullahs will tell them to do so. And they will walk, as they came, till they come to or reach ships. Well, they have to. Think about all those trains required…. And we will all live happily ever after. Democracy has won, our values have been maintained. Hip, hip, hurrah!
Second scenario: They fight, bombings, capitations, terror, burning streets everywhere, et cetera est. Of course, this is unlikely once laws have been passed. From California to Saxony and Austria, they will simply go home. Also, what speaks against the 2nd scenario is that the Koran will be quoted to them, so they will hang their heads in shame and leave.
Let me be be a spoilsport and assume the second scenario comes to pass, then what? Hmh. The left wing, Sorosians, Stalinists, Maoists (that is to say Fascists and Nazis according to the understanding of the anti-jihadists) will assist them. Fortunately the police and the military will have help from the Antifa, after all, they fight against Fascists and Nazis. What’s wrong with this picture?
OK, the democratically elected govs will carry out purges of the media, the courts, the NGOs and all that, and… Stop laughing. Something wrong with this picture? You mean they wont? No machine guns and APCs in the streets? Right, they bring in Peter Pan, that’ll do the trick.
I know, this is outrageous, probably fascistic, but assuming the second scenario comes to pass, could it be that there will calls, like: “Save us Caesar! Save us!”?
Happened before, you know. Quiet a few times over the last 2,500 years.
gravenimage says
DFD, Merkel did not win a majority. The problem was that the opposition was too fragmented.
And President Trump is continuing to work on his “Muslim ban”, but he faces huge opposition on even this limited protection.
I’m sure,. as you note, that it would be the same or worse in Europe. But that does not mean it is hopeless, nor that we should surrender. I do believe we can turn the tide.
Save Europe says
You’ve just called yourself a Fascist. NOT true! Lefttard agitators like Antifa are! Churchill quote – ‘The fascists of the future will call themselves anti-Fascists’ ie like Antifa. Never apologise or be self critical!!!
Champ says
“For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.” — 1 Corinthians 1:18
boakai ngombu says
a good point, Champ. keep it up.
the mosque is porous
gravenimage says
Italy: Muslim migrant climbs Christmas tree to remove its cross
……………………………
The new, “multicultural” Europe…
Ad what is important, of course, is not that he is African, but that he is *Muslim*.
Karen says
In the full article, the gentleman is quoted as saying that the cross on the tree was for him ‘not good’. Tiresome narcissist….yes, everything is all about you.
BTW, where can I get a tree like that? Gorgeous….
Karen says
Well, the Ayatollah warned us that there is no fun in Islam, no doubt that includes Christmas. The site of joyousness must have triggered the migrant’s epic lack of impulse control.
abad says
I’d like a Christmas tree like that too…
Karen says
If I find one I’ll let you know!
abad says
Thanks!
Lisa says
What is it with muslims all of a sudden being angered and even afraid of the Cross? I don’t remember seeing this before. They were the “religion of peace.”
Save Europe says
The religion of the perpetually offended….
Jayell says
So he removed the cross because “it wasn’t good”? Will Italy now ŕemove this insolent creep because HE isn’t ‘good’ either!
M says
Just another outburst from a joyless hate filled death cultist. Why do they hate everything nice, pretty and fun??????
abad says
Because Islam is somber, ugly, ugly, and joyless.
IOW, Islam is the Original Greyface (TM Pending)
Save Europe says
Pending approved ?
Jayell says
Somber? Ugly? Joyless? That mskes it sound far too respectable. These words suggest a lack of humoir and humour is normally recognised as a sign of intelligence, so since Mohammed was characterised as being posturing, devious, but a bit thick, surely ‘brainless’ best sums up his catalogue of spurious garbage?
abad says
Yep.
roger woodhouse says
Time to fight back is nearing.Islam must be exposed for the evil it is and drummed out of Europe.Whose going to lead the charge?Not any of our current politicians it seems.Stop voting for them would be a start.
Bob says
Here in the UK, that’d mean, virtually, not voting at all!
Thomas Brewster says
Merry Christmas everyone! There were four policemen guarding the church, armed with automatic rifles. Thank you, religion of peace!
Savvy Kafir says
Muslims make up about 2% of the population in Italy; but this pious a**hole thinks he has a right to dictate what will & will not be displayed in public.
Imagine if the Muslim population was 20%. How would that look? And it soon will be, if Muslim immigration is not halted, and if fast-breeding Demographic Jihadis are not sent back to Gambia or whatever Islamic hell-hole nation they came from.
Jayell says
‘Pious a***hole’? ‘Stupid a***hole’, surely?
Golem2 says
Most of them are stupid by birth or choice
Savvy Kafir says
Yes, I’d say he’s a pious Muslim. One who takes his religion seriously. If not, he wouldn’t have bothered to climb that Christmas tree to remove an “offensive” symbol of an infidel religion.
MTMLA says
Too bad he did not have an accident, like falling off the tree and meeting the 72 virgins..
Bodega says
One day I was curious about the population percentages of the most vocal groups causing the most agitation and trouble here in the USA. You know, those groups that feel no one loves them, the groups that want the laws changed in their favor (think Sharia Law up in MN, for example), the groups destroying ohter peoples’ prooperty, and making it difficult for non-pathological types to exist in harmony with them.
I was amazed and I would love to stand corrected if the numbers are scewed or incorrect at how few people are actually getting so much media attention: for example LGBT groups including transgenders.: This group is hard to identify as they are fluid in defining themselves. I think the definitions are as fluid as their emotions of the the moment. Perhaps there are many LGBTs in the Muslim community–how else can some fo their comments and hates be understood?
The blacks of this country account for some 13-15% of the total population and of that group I have read only 2-3% are Black Lives Matter. How can we, all other groups, allow 1-3% of our population dictate anything without discussion?
Maoists, communistists,Leninists, etc…this group might include feminiists as they are apprently groups excuding white men and, yes, moderate and conservative white women (essentially anything, material or not that is “White”–heh, heh!), so that group is probably close to 30% (I really don’t know…no data) and they want Constitutional changes, white men eliminiated from the USA, and refuse to reconstruct the educational system so that our kids can actually read and do math…are they insane? Perhaps, because who do they think earns salaries large enough to pay adequate tax to support the feminist agenda/ and all those really ineffectual marches?
Truly, I think we who seem more moderate, more conservative (and more rationale?) ought to be asking why those people who do not share our love of the Constitution and its protections and the Bill of Rights, should not be asking for those others who want to destroy our moderate political landscape to sign a statement of allegiiance to the USA ? I would in a heart beat–and if they didn’t sign, deport them to the country of their choice,,,maybe with mz jackson-lee on United. And do not allow them to return…no matter what. Suggest they start with Rosie Hillary, Barbara, Harvey and Bill.
gravenimage says
True–most of these groups are tiny but loud and sometimes violent.
Karen says
I’ve often wondered about these same questions. Certainly we don’t live in a perfect society – what did Winston Churchill say – “Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others”. We live in a very competitive society; if you don’t live a disciplined lifestyle with lots of delayed gratification, education and work, you have a good chance of falling behind. I think many of the dissatisfied fall into this category. We do have income inequality, which is worrisome; we all want our fellow citizens to have a core set of good things in life, but some (not all) of this inequality comes from bad choices in life. Additionally, you have a group that thinks there can be a communist utopia, even though there never has been one, but not for a lack of trying (at gunpoint). They refuse to believe that human behavior is aligned against this dream, since we are creatures who respond to incentive. These are the people who think that a yearly exam with their doctor, one of the most educated and skill-specialized people in society, should cost $5.00 out of pocket. Unfortunately, their dream of ‘leveling the playing field’ always involves tearing down the successful, including the middle class. These people are misguided dreamers at best, with a leftist leadership that is viciously totalitarian. I personally believe our republic, capitalist system creates the most freedom and the most opportunity with the fewest economic distortions, making it the most sustainable.
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
Also in Europe: Swedish minister says migrants should go elsewhere.
https://www.rt.com/news/414123-sweden-minister-capacities-refugees/
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
Rape and murder of UK diplomat (because she was wearing a miniskirt):
http://barenakedislam.com/2017/12/24/smirking-savage-muslim-uber-driver-in-beirut-who-raped-and-murdered-british-female-diplomat-told-cops-he-targeted-her-for-wearing-a-short-skirt/
gravenimage says
I’s heard about that terrible case–now we know why.
And how sick is Islam? Wearing a short skirt is ‘immodest’, but rape is perfectly fine.
MTMLA says
She was probably a leftist muslim lover who learned the truth about islam the hard way. RIP.
Manny says
How about deporting him. Like tomorrow.
boakai ngombu says
perhaps the Papacy would accept him.
Manny says
Maybe I’m offended by the existence of mosques in my country. Let’s remive them.
Bob says
AMEN- the lot demolished…but how, like the thoughts of deporting millions who’d rather not be deported!
Savvy Kafir says
Those millions of Muslim colonizers in the West who would rather not be deported are VASTLY outnumbered by non-Muslims in all Western European countries, and in the U.S., Canada, & Australia. That’s also true in the militaries & police forces of those countries. With the proper resolve on the part of Western governments & Western people, they CAN be deported. It won’t be simple or easy. But it must be done.
In my opinion, our primary goal as counter-jihadis is to educate the general public regarding the true nature of Islam & the threat it poses to civilized societies, until a strong, motivated majority of people (including politicians & bureaucrats) understand that removing Islam (read that “Muslims”) from the West is the only effective way to safeguard free societies & basic human rights.
CogitoErgoSum says
Exceedingly strange how Muslims consider non-Muslims vile and filthy and yet have no problem with touching them and being intimate with them in the most intimate way possible. The disgrace is his as demonstrated by his lack of control over his own sexual desires, thus proving himself to be the the one who is vile and filthy. I wonder: will he ever even be capable of understanding that?
CogitoErgoSum says
My comment above was supposed to be in reply to the 7:55 post by Flavius Claudius Iulianus concerning the rape of the UK diplomat.
Leon Degney says
In a word, doubtful.
MTMLA says
They fuck goats, burros, camels, boys and each other ..so…they are not too choosy where they put it..
utis says
Real refugees do not tear up their country of refuge. Invaders do.
Kay says
Good point
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
+1
LeftisruiningCanada says
That’s the simple yet profound truth of it yes.
It may take a thousand years for this to be accepted by EU politicians.
And even then, it will make them feel bad.
Rolf Wittwer says
Homesick feeling – climbing trees?
Probably he was thinking (if he is able) there was a (islamic) “sickle shaped” molto buono Banana on top.
And Italy agrees to take now thousands again.
Europe has resignated.
LeftisruiningCanada says
I have no comment, not even a slightly humorous yet friendly racist one, about a man from the tropical nation of gambia climbing a tree in a grand city of a prosperous western nation.
Nope, nothing, nothing at all.
Blangwort says
I don’t understand these “migrants”. They leave a country of strife, hatred and oppression, and then they bring the same damned practices with them to wherever they go.
When visiting a new land, it is wise to learn the ways of the people who live there. I do no less when I travel and I expect no less from some visitor.
Save Europe says
They’re performing the Hijra.
CRUSADER says
How bad can things get?
Even the “Last Jedi” has this going on:
> The Resistance led by a frozen cold Hillary Clinton character and her host of feminists who show disdain for warrior men who what to blow up things that harm the Republic….
> Many references to white blue eyed Aryan fascistic black-leather-armor clad authoritarians who want to destroy differences of opinion….
> One fascist authoritarian even has orange hair….
> The religion of Jedi-ism is supposed to die off….
> Only clunky rebellion fighting machinery can fend off imperial fascistic power weaponry…
> Blacks are treated as scum according to a hateful white blue eyed fascist who seethes with vitriol….
> Asians have the secret unveiled that only love can transform what harms (“Love Trumps Hate”???) …..
Thank you Disney.
Seasons Greetings.
===============
CogitoErgoSum says
I like a good sci-fi story but I gave up on Star Wars a long time ago when the Ewoks made their appearance. Apparently, it’s been all downhill ever since. Hollywood loves to do remakes so perhaps in about 20 years or so the entire Star Wars saga will be re-made with a bit more intelligence behind it. However, by that time I hope that my own reality will be far beyond and way better than what anyone could ever possibly imagine. Seasons greetings …….. and a merry Christmas filled with hope for a better year to come.
Save Europe says
I hope Kylo Ren wins ultimately.
LeftisruiningCanada says
I hope he starts looking like a man.
Pet Charles says
Europeans are hypocrites. Europe is arguable the most warlike and genocidal continent in history. The period between the end of World War II and the Bosnian/Serbian genocidal war was the longest period of peace. Europeans simply cannot stand living in peace. So they are importing Islam and people who are hostile to their culture, to justify another genocidal war in the future. Its plain as day for even a blind man to see!! Even the Muslims are saying that they are in fear of retaliation after every terrorist attack. Even they know that its going to happen sooner or later.
Save Europe says
A truly intriguing post. I’m a Limey and have been saying much the same for three years. We in Europe have ‘previous’, and Muslims have ‘continuing previous.’ It will not work out well.
gravenimage says
What a load of crap from Pet Charles–and he has done this sort of thing before.
The civilized West is supposedly the most violent, while Muslims are slaughtering them. And if any of them are concerned about it, the the poor Jihadists are terrified of “backlash”.
Of course, this has *never* happened. Muslims are saying this not because Westerners are so violent, but because they are so kind and sensitive that they are going to feel unearned guilt over this. Of course, Pet Charles knows this as well as the Muslims do.
MTMLA says
Follow the $$$$ trail .
Z says
I don’t see the problem. That is a beautiful tree
gravenimage says
That is part of the reason Muslims hate it.
mortimer says
JB, you overgeneralize viciously. Far less than 1% of Muslims are committing jihad against the kufaar. The other 99% mind their own business. Most Muslims are not practicing and so they ignore the duty of jihad.
Dave Blom says
Jihad has four different forms: jihad by the sword, jihad of the money, jihad of the tongue and jihad of the pen. If a muslim does not use the sword he still can be doing the other three. One of the 5 pillars of Islam is giving money( zakat). According to the islam this money should be used to help islam to bribe people to advance islam and use it for jihad with the sword. Ignorant muslims of their own scripts makes still no ignorant islam
John Butler says
Maybe “most Muslims” are simply keeping their heads down, just like us ‘Islamophobes’, until the moment arrives when they will do the bidding of Allah and invoke 9:29, and we in tirn will finally push back.
pragmatist says
I’m afraid, though well meaning, you are deluded. Terror attacks by the 1% (questionable that it is that low -world wide research suggests 25%), horrendous though they are, are only a minor manifestation of a greater intent, which is the total Islamification of the west. The vast majority of the other 99% (?) you mention, although they probably don’t actually object to the violence, are happily proceeding towards achieving this goal and are actually getting on pretty well without needing to indulge in violence at all. Witness the UK, where the Muslims are literally forcing societal change through an impact out of all proportion to their representation, purely by exploiting the tolerant nature of the majority of the Brits, and the pandering attitude of the UK politicians – and of course by playing the victim card where necessary.
Anne Smith says
Pragmatist has a very good point. It is quite noticeable in Britain that the Muslims are inserting themselves into as many influential fields as they can possibly manage. They have a huge foothold in the BBC, which has now announced it will be stepping up its religious programming of other faiths, not Christian, every programme you see is hosted or presented by a Muslim, or analysed and discussed with a Muslim, the ads feature Muslims prominently, no talk programme is ever put on without a Muslim participant.
They are into local government and control some Councils, they have stepped up their efforts to get into Parliament via the Labour party, although the Cons have a few Muslim MPs also, the labour Mayor of London is a Muslim, they are well on the way to controlling this country.
There are many Muslims in the law, banking, medicine, industry and they are increasing exponentially. The country will no longer be a Christian country in very short time.
patriotgirl1 says
Well said!!!!
LR says
The Brits blew it big time when they turned on their own culture and allowed for all the hate speech laws, so a Brit who quotes Churchill gets arrested…These are self-inflicted wounds.
Stand up to the bullies, and enforce very choosy immigration, otherwise bullies end up taking over…It is quite simple.
Golem2 says
By mind their own business You mean they look the other way
gravenimage says
Mortimer wrote:
JB, you overgeneralize viciously. Far less than 1% of Muslims are committing jihad against the kufaar. The other 99% mind their own business. Most Muslims are not practicing and so they ignore the duty of jihad.
……………………………….
Mortimer, in the United States–often cited as a having a “moderate” Muslim population, over half of Muslims want to see the imposition of Shari’ah law.
Many Muslims in the West say they won’t turn in their coreligionists who plot violent Jihad, Many are engaged in stealth Jihad such as lawfare, also intent on Islamizing our societies.
Is any of this *really* just minding their own business?
CRUSADER says
Buon Natale
MFritz says
What else to expect from criminals, mercenaries and terrorists.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Harsh.
But it’s happening as we sit and type.
Matthieu Baudin says
“… The cross is offensive to Muslims, since the Qur’an says that Jesus did not die on the cross…”
Yeah, these ‘johnny come latelies’ always insist on having the last say on everything.
terry says
Merry Christmas to all of you and your loved ones, including muslims.
Peace, Joy and Love.
cyrus basile says
I am Italian and I am writing from Italy, I have already said and described that these things happen only in northern Italy why are cowards and fearful, in central southern does not happen, because it already knows that have nothing to do with the police but are first lynched by population. migrants are already warned where they can do these things, and northern Europe is an example and the same in northern Italy
LeftisruiningCanada says
We’ve been so ‘civilized’ that i think we forgot what it means to a human on this planet, although i’m conflicted on the application of a lynch mob.
But, if the state begins to be seen as illegitimate, by supporting muslims at the expense of native custom, then perhaps it’s the only way.
There does need to be respect from newcomers though, and that is what the threat of violent reactions from locals is good for…especially when the newcomers are only able to respect force.
Merry Christmas to you in Italia!
MTMLA says
How about whats going on in Lampadusa and Sicily???
LeftisruiningCanada says
What’s going on there, beyond the usual massive influx of feral north africans and assorted riff raff?
A muslim from KZ. says
Guys, just so you know. I’ve been reading the comments and it saddens me, that a lot of people see all the muslims as some sort of monsters. Please, take your time and read this post to understand, why I am saying this. I also apologise in advance for any grammar and spelling mistakes, I have tried my best to convey my thoughts, while English is not my first language.
I am from Kazakhstan, where the majority of muslims are moderate (Kazakhstan is not a secular country and we hope it will never become a country, where religion is enforced by law on everyone). There is also no sharia law here, there never was and the majority does not want it in the future of our country. Ever. A lot of “strict” muslims would not consider us to be “proper” muslims, but we are muslims, regardless )).
I, personally, have went to a couple of churches with my friends and haven’t found anything to be offensive, it was interesting to feel the atmosphere, see the interior and architecture differences, as well as listen to what priests were saying, talk to people there.
True “moderate muslims” beleive in and practice respect towards other religions and cultures (that point may vary from person to person, depending on their education and environment, but you wouldn’t find those muslims talking bad about christianity or buddhism, because all of us are people and are equal before the God, regardless of what you call him/her/them).
You should know that in Islam, there are different branches, which follow different beleifs – depending on those you end up on different ends from moderate to extremism. A typical moderate muslim in Kazakhstan (I can only give our country as an example, because I live here) – does not wear attributes connected to religion on a daily basis (if you visit a mosque, you need to do the basics – be clean and cover hair), does not pray at a certain time of a day, most do not pray daily. All of that stems from our traditions (kazakhs didn’t wear clothes typical for what you would see on extrimists) and a moderate beleif system (Quran does NOT state any dress code, where people cover themselves all over, grow beards with shaved mustaches and so on). We generally beleive that people who do harm in the name of god are poorly educated (in Islam) people, who are used by others to bring terror.
Our country has chosen the most moderate (read tolerant) branch of Islam to follow, the basis of which are aimed towards peace by peaceful means (that is by making yourself a better person, not by forcing or converting others). We are against the radical muslims (extremists), who are terrorising other people, as a true muslim (in our understanding) should not harbour any hatred towards other people, regardless of their religion (or absence of such). One of the top and basic terachings in Quran includes not killing other people (and again, it means all people, regardless of their background, gender, race, religion, etc. There are no exceptions).
That being said, we are not saints (I think thats the same for an average “moderate” person, regardless of their religion) and are not the most tolerant people in the world (LGBT community is still mostly not accepted in this country), but we would not escalate that into an act of terror against other people (for our muslims it goes against the Quran’s teachings). And no, we do not dream of the day, when we take over the world, an average person here just hopes that a war never breaks out again, as it wasn’t that long ago (we were still a part of the USSR back then), when our people were dying in a war.
Recently, Kazakhstan has also been struggling with people from extremist branches of muslim religion. Our government is trying to educate people (recognising destructive religious groups, spreading the information about our traditional moderate branch of Islam and so on), so that they don’t fall victims of their teachings (unfortunately, in recent years, we’ve been hearing about people from our country being fooled by such groups). I know, that it can be seen as a violation on our freedom to follow whatever religion we beleive in, but it does help us to not steer towards extremism and terror. We see those people as brainwashed individuals (how else can you explain those inhumane acts from such a big group of people?) and do not consider them to be muslims, regardless of what they say.
On topic – I have read about these news on our local internet source, where it stated that an African immigrant in Italy tried to take a cross off the top of a christmas tree (did not mention that he was a muslim or anything of that sort), so I went to see what other countries might have written about it. I frankly do not see any reason for him to do what he did, as there is nothing bad about the cross. To start with, there is no person called “Jesus” in Quran (muslims do not beleive in Jesus, we have a different name for him )))), so for him there should be no connection to a cross whatsoever from the religious point of view, be it negative or positive XD. I do not claim to be an expert on all of the Islamic teachings (as I said, my country follows the most moderate teachings there is), but from what we’ve been taught, it doesn’t make sense.
TLDR: please do not put all the muslims into a single group with extrimists, because there are different branches of Islam teachings, some of which teach to respect other people, their religions and cultures. Hating everyone blindly has never resulted in anything good for the world. On topic – there is nothing offensive about the cross for moderate muslims, so what this guy did doesn’t make sense for us either.
marc says
Hi A muslim from KZ,
“I can only give our country as an example, because I live here” yes, you have some different islam going there, but the vast majority of muslims worldwide would not agree with you, you call it “extremist branches of muslim religion” but that is mainstream and orthodox islam.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Greetings to you in Kazakhstan. Just so you know, i’ve been in your country several times and like it very much.
As you note, there are many muslims who don’t cause problems. I’ve associated with many like that.
But islam as practiced by mohammad is not moderate – the only way a muslim can be moderate is by selectively ignoring some of the things mohammad said and did. That is the position that most people on this site take. We try to focus on the ideology of islam, rather than on individual muslims.
I’m sorry to say this to you, because im sure you yourself are a very nice person.
It is interesting that you say there is no problem with the Cross, when the koran claims that isa will come back to destroy the crosses (and kill the pig).
Crosses are banned in several islamic countries. There is a story recently on this site from Egypt, where it says crosses are banned from being displayed on churches.
Sharia does not allow non muslims to have displays of their religion…crosses are part of that, and are not allowed. That is islam, and muslims who disagree with that are the moderate kind who are carefully ignoring certain parts of the faith.
You say that Kazakhstan has struggled recently with more extreme muslims. That won’t go away i think, and you will have more a more problems, requiring more and more heavy handed responses. This is the case in the western nations, where islam is become more and more present.
Hopefully someone more versed in the koran and hadith etc, will reply to you with many quotes from islamic sources. If not, please look around the many articles from the past month or so, and you will see them quoted. I hope you will continue to read and post here 🙂
LeftisruiningCanada says
Muslims i have read or interacted with also find the cross very offensive because the koran denies that Jesus was crucified. They say that to believe, as Christians do, that allah allowed one of his prophets to be killed in such a shameful way is very offensive to them, and a great blasphemy against allah.
Therefore, to display the cross is a sign that we are blaspheming allah.
A muslim from KZ. says
Hello, thank you for the warm welcome ^_^.
Yes, I was specifically talking about the moderate branch of Islam, which is the main one in Kazakhstan, as I do understand, that there are some differences in the way people teach and follow Islam religion, just as there are differences between various branches of Christianity (down to the shape of the cross and whether it is ok to be LGBT or not ))) ). I beleive that people here would find a qoute or two, to prove that cross is bad for muslims, but that is not so for the majority of us here, otherwise we would have taken those down from all the churches across the country. Then again, as I said before Sharia law is not in effect here (at least in it’s “mainstream” form), as a lot of it would go against the country’s aim to prevent conflict amongst it’s citizens (fairly diverse in ethnicity and religious views).
Some of the Islmaic teachings are actually banned by the government here, as they go against the traditions of our nation and principles of our country. Our government has realised that because most of muslims here are non-practitioners (and therefore are badly versed in Quran), they are weak to the influence of those, who would go around, pointing at verses and saying that God is against people who beleive such and such, and that we should “correct them” (which in itself is against our teachings, where God is fair, loving and forgiving, and would never ask us to harm other people, especially in his name – typically people would say that the afterlife will put everything in place, depending on how you lived your life). We are walking a fine line between modern rationality and religion here, trying to keep peace, but not shut down faith.
And yes, the majority of muslims from other countries do find us kind of weird, as we seem to be their “brothers muslims”, but at the same time we are different, as we do not follow the same teachings and we are not even an Islamic country. As such, we are aware that we are not seen as “proper” muslims )).
LR says
A muslim from KZ,
I am glad you posted here…I appreciate your posting…Yes, some people on here can be hard on all Muslims, and that is not good.
“We are walking a fine line between modern rationality and religion here, trying to keep peace, but not shut down faith.”…”they are weak to the influence of those, who would go around, pointing at verses and saying that God is against people who beleive such and such, and that we should “correct them””…
For me, I think it’s important for Muslims such as yourself to keep talking to, and questioning ‘extremist’ Muslims in your own country, and online who do not want to respect other religions, and believe in their Islamic superiority. It may at least prod some deeper thinking. To do this effectively though, one must be well versed in the basics of the religion. As you point out, not enough people are educated in the basics of various religious belief systems..
I too know Muslims who are friends with people from all persuasions, and enjoy taking their kids to Christmas celebrations.
And your English is very good!
LeftisruiningCanada says
Hi there, glad to your reply.
” just as there are differences between various branches of Christianity (down to the shape of the cross and whether it is ok to be LGBT or not”
For sure we have some internal debates on morality and practice. But homosexuals are not in danger of death, because Jesus never killed anyone, or told anyone else to kill anyone. If someone does kill a homosexual for being homosexual, Christians can condemn that will full backup from Jesus. I don’t want to offend you, but if someone in an islamic country, like Iran or Arabia, kills a homosexual, does he have mohammd on his side or not?
“as I said before Sharia law is not in effect here (at least in it’s “mainstream” form), as a lot of it would go against the country’s aim to prevent conflict amongst it’s citizens”
That’s great, and it’s one of the reasons why Kazakhstan has been doing so well i think. But what if different muslims managed to get in to government, and decided that Kazakhstan’s aim should be to become more islamic? The crosses might come down then perhaps.
“Some of the Islmaic teachings are actually banned by the government here, as they go against the traditions of our nation and principles of our country. Our government has realised that because most of muslims here are non-practitioners (and therefore are badly versed in Quran), they are weak to the influence of those”
That’s also great….i think you understand why that needs to be the case. If i can ask you, why do you think that, as you have said, most of the islamic world considers your kind of islam to be so….unislamic? Why does your country have to defend itself against other muslims who would like to bring problems to Kazakhstan?
“We are walking a fine line between modern rationality and religion here, trying to keep peace, but not shut down faith.”
You know, that’s good to hear. If this was the case in more countries, with the word “peace” being defined normally (and not as it is by so many muslims to your west), things would be going pretty well. But what do you say to those muslims who reject anything modern, and want only to live as mohammad lived in all aspects of their life? It would be great if you and the many who believe like you do, could have a chat with the muslims we have in our countries, who are trying to make them all full sharia run islamic states.
Please don’t think i am trying to attack you or anything….i hope the tone of my writing to you is not harsh. I’m glad to chat with you, and agree with the above comment by LR.
If you don’t mind saying, which part of KZ do you live in? I was in the Aktau/Beyneu area mostly, with some visits in and around Shymkent. Would be nice to see the east a bit more, but i like deserts 🙂
Karen says
Dear Muslim from KZ, I recently read about your very interesting country, and was recalling that the population is considered to be largely non-practicing, which I believe you have confirmed. Is it safe to say that you are cultural Muslims, versus religious Muslims? This is a very broad statement, so I state it with some apologies, but I think it has some truth; the less conformity to Islamic doctrine and Sharia, the more peaceful and tolerant the society may be to others. I say this with some sadness, because I know many Muslins who are dearly connected to their religion which they have always associated not only with goodness, but with the people they love the most; mother, father, siblings, etc. It is deeply painful to them to know that many others in society no longer share this view. This change in viewpoint in Western societies probably started with the Iranian Islamic Revolution and the return to Islamic fundamentalism around the globe; this did not increase love and tolerance, but seems to be driving many of the worst attitudes. It also revived and energized the political side of Islam, which as a religion, decoupled from Sharia and politics, I have no desire to interfere with. I’d also cite the Muslim majority nations that practice the closest adherence to Islamic scripture; these are often the most disturbing in their attitudes to non-Muslims. What can you say about a country, such as KSA, which has zero tolerance for other religions, and which has text books teaching the most shocking and violent attitudes of pure hatred against non-Muslims to very young Saudi children? Strict adherence to Islam, coupled with the practice of political Islam and Sharia, seems to be creating this toxic attitude against non-Muslims, not relieving it.
Thank you for listening!
MTMLA says
You are irrelevant. The pious ones will kill you for being an apostate and not following true islam.
Lydia Church says
So we all need to invade all of muslimland, as “migrants,” remove the crescents from their mosques, because they offend us as Christians.
gravenimage says
A muslim from KZ. wrote:
Guys, just so you know. I’ve been reading the comments and it saddens me, that a lot of people see all the muslims as some sort of monsters.
……………………………..
I see you are “sad” that Infidels have learned something about the vicious supremacist creed of Islam. Will you talk to your coreligionists working to impose Shari’ah on the West–or those raping and slaughtering unbelievers? I doubt it.
More:
Please, take your time and read this post to understand, why I am saying this. I also apologise in advance for any grammar and spelling mistakes, I have tried my best to convey my thoughts, while English is not my first language.
……………………………..
Your English is fine, It is your apologia for Islam that is the problem.
More:
I am from Kazakhstan, where the majority of muslims are moderate (Kazakhstan is not a secular country and we hope it will never become a country, where religion is enforced by law on everyone). There is also no sharia law here, there never was and the majority does not want it in the future of our country. Ever. A lot of “strict” muslims would not consider us to be “proper” muslims, but we are muslims, regardless )).
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You don’t consider this forcing Islam on others?
“Kazakhstan: Convert from Islam to Christianity gets 2 years prison for inciting religious hatred”
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/12/kazakhstan-convert-from-islam-to-christianity-gets-2-years-prison-for-inciting-religious-hatred
Do you believe that Muslims should be able to leave Islam if they want to? It is orthodox Islam to persecute such people.
More:
I, personally, have went to a couple of churches with my friends and haven’t found anything to be offensive, it was interesting to feel the atmosphere, see the interior and architecture differences, as well as listen to what priests were saying, talk to people there.
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That’s nice. What do you think about the persecution of Christians in the story above, though?
More:
True “moderate muslims” beleive in and practice respect towards other religions and cultures (that point may vary from person to person, depending on their education and environment, but you wouldn’t find those muslims talking bad about christianity or buddhism, because all of us are people and are equal before the God, regardless of what you call him/her/them).
……………………………..
This is not what Islam teaches. And if you really believe this, why don’t you talk to your fellow Muslims who are raping, enslaving, and murdering Christians and other Infidels? So much easier to try to snow the nice people at Jihad Watch, instead…
More:
You should know that in Islam, there are different branches, which follow different beleifs – depending on those you end up on different ends from moderate to extremism.
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There is no mainstream branch of Islam that rejects violent Jihad and the imposition of Shari’ah law, as you no doubt know.
More:
A typical moderate muslim in Kazakhstan (I can only give our country as an example, because I live here) – does not wear attributes connected to religion on a daily basis (if you visit a mosque, you need to do the basics – be clean and cover hair), does not pray at a certain time of a day, most do not pray daily. All of that stems from our traditions (kazakhs didn’t wear clothes typical for what you would see on extrimists) and a moderate beleif system (Quran does NOT state any dress code, where people cover themselves all over, grow beards with shaved mustaches and so on). We generally beleive that people who do harm in the name of god are poorly educated (in Islam) people, who are used by others to bring terror.
……………………………..
Do you believe that the “Prophet” Muhammed was poorly educated in Islam? He said, “I am made victorious through terror” in a Sahih Hadith.
And, in any case, pious Muslims do not believe that Jihadists are doing harm in the name of Allah–they believe they are going to paradise.
More:
Our country has chosen the most moderate (read tolerant) branch of Islam to follow, the basis of which are aimed towards peace by peaceful means (that is by making yourself a better person, not by forcing or converting others). We are against the radical muslims (extremists), who are terrorising other people, as a true muslim (in our understanding) should not harbour any hatred towards other people, regardless of their religion (or absence of such).
……………………………..
Most Kazakhs are Sunnis of the Hanafi School.
Yaqub ibn Ibrahim al-Ansari (Abu Yusuf) was a student of legist Abu Hanifah and helped spread the influence of the Hanafi school. He said:
“It seems that the most satisfactory suggestion we have heard in this connection is that there is no objection to the use of any kind of arms against the polytheists, smothering and burning their homes…”
Muhammad al-Shaybani was one of the most important disciples of Abu Hanifa. He said:
“Fight in the name of God and in the “path of God” . Combat those who disbelieve in God”
He talked about despoiling non-Muslims.
There are many more examples. How “moderate” is this?
More:
One of the top and basic terachings in Quran includes not killing other people (and again, it means all people, regardless of their background, gender, race, religion, etc. There are no exceptions).
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Really? Does “kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush” say that Muslims should not kill people, or does it actually say just the opposite? There are dozens more examples.
More:
We see those people as brainwashed individuals (how else can you explain those inhumane acts from such a big group of people?) and do not consider them to be muslims, regardless of what they say.
……………………………..
Funny how Muslims who behave exactly the way Muhammed did are–somehow–not real Muslims.
Again, why don’t you take this up with them, instead of trying to convince Infidels that all of those 32,000+ Jihad terror attacks since 9/11 have nothing to do with Islam?
More:
On topic – I have read about these news on our local internet source, where it stated that an African immigrant in Italy tried to take a cross off the top of a christmas tree (did not mention that he was a muslim or anything of that sort), so I went to see what other countries might have written about it. I frankly do not see any reason for him to do what he did, as there is nothing bad about the cross. To start with, there is no person called “Jesus” in Quran (muslims do not beleive in Jesus, we have a different name for him )))), so for him there should be no connection to a cross whatsoever from the religious point of view, be it negative or positive XD. I do not claim to be an expert on all of the Islamic teachings (as I said, my country follows the most moderate teachings there is), but from what we’ve been taught, it doesn’t make sense.
……………………………..
The texts of Islam are full of condemnation of Christians for daring to believe that Jesus died on the cross. Surely you cannot be unaware of this? This is, in fact, the main reason that Muslims slaughter Christians.
The Muslim “Jesus”–really, “Isa”–in the last day is supposed to “break the cross and kill the pigs” and then slaughter every Christian who does not convert to Islam.
More:
TLDR: please do not put all the muslims into a single group with extrimists, because there are different branches of Islam teachings, some of which teach to respect other people, their religions and cultures. Hating everyone blindly has never resulted in anything good for the world. On topic – there is nothing offensive about the cross for moderate muslims, so what this guy did doesn’t make sense for us either.
……………………………..
Projection–the idea that if Infidels object to being victimized by Muslims that they are engaged in “hating everyone blindly”. *Ugh*.
A muslim from KZ. says
Hello, I am not trying to protect those who did terrible things, while trying to cover it up by their beleifs. I wanted people to know that there are different kinds of muslims out there, just as there are different branches of teachings in Christianity, as I know that when a person only gets a story from one side, they might end up with quite a lopsided view on a situation (which is why I do read news in English, not only local news in my country).
I will take my time to reply to each one of your questions to the best of my ability.
“I see you are “sad” that Infidels have learned something about the vicious supremacist creed of Islam. Will you talk to your coreligionists working to impose Shari’ah on the West–or those raping and slaughtering unbelievers? I doubt it.” – Just so you know, we view acts of rape and slaughter towards other people as terrible and inhumane, regardless of the identity of the victim and offender. We are not a country ruled by a religion, so we do not look through a prism of religion, when we see such things happen in the world. Muslims in Kazakhstan do not want to impose any religion on other countries ))). And you should know, that convincing people of another beleifs that what they are doing is wrong, is something so difficult, that even in the modern world, we still have these issues.
“Your English is fine, It is your apologia for Islam that is the problem” – once again, I am not trying to defend anyone here, just wanted people to know that they should not put every muslim in the world under the same stereotype. Blanket terms tend to come, when people don’t see much diversity and it starts to look that all people from a certain category fall under a certain stereotype. When people say “muslim” I do associate the term with myself, despite not actually falling under the stereotype, which typically follows shortly after. I specifically tried to talk about the main branch of Islam in my country, to show the diversity.
““Fight in the name of God and in the “path of God” . Combat those who disbelieve in God”
He talked about despoiling non-Muslims.
There are many more examples. How “moderate” is this?” – We beleive that God would never ask us to harm others in his name or otherwise. That is just the way we are taught here – one should not force their religion on others (if someone is wrong, he will get his punishment in full in the afterlife, as God is fair and will put everything in its place). As the main principle is not to kill a human – that is a sin. I realise that for a person, who is used to the “strict” muslims this seems unbeleivable, but thats just how it is here. Also, over 90% of muslims here are non-practitioners, so they would never go as far as kill for religion XD.
“Do you believe that the “Prophet” Muhammed was poorly educated in Islam? He said, “I am made victorious through terror” in a Sahih Hadith.
And, in any case, pious Muslims do not believe that Jihadists are doing harm in the name of Allah–they believe they are going to paradise.” – I beleive that interpretation differs in our teachings and others ))). We are taught the most moderate path, and people here are not ruled by religion, so it’s inevitable that what you are used to and what is taught here is different. Extremists beleive that what they are doing is what God wants and therefore they are going to paradise – we beleive that harming others will condemnt you to hell.
“Really? Does “kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush” say that Muslims should not kill people, or does it actually say just the opposite? There are dozens more examples.” – Again, I am talking only about Kazakhstan, which is not Islamic and religion doesn not equal law here. I can say “gods” or that I dont beleive in god as much as I want to, no one will persecute me for this. I am free to beleive that there is a spirit or god for each tree, if I want to, as long as I don’t call people to punish or kill those, who don’t beleive the same. I am not saying that what you say is not true for other countries.
“Funny how Muslims who behave exactly the way Muhammed did are–somehow–not real Muslims.
Again, why don’t you take this up with them, instead of trying to convince Infidels that all of those 32,000+ Jihad terror attacks since 9/11 have nothing to do with Islam?” – I am not sure as to why this point came here, because I was not trying to fight with anyone, and did not defend those, who were killing in the name of God. I am not saying they are not real muslims, in their eyes they are. But in our eyes, they are not, because they are sinning left and right, while covering up with the name of God.
“The texts of Islam are full of condemnation of Christians for daring to believe that Jesus died on the cross. Surely you cannot be unaware of this? This is, in fact, the main reason that Muslims slaughter Christians.
The Muslim “Jesus”–really, “Isa”–in the last day is supposed to “break the cross and kill the pigs” and then slaughter every Christian who does not convert to Islam.” – Once again, Kazakhstan is following the most moderate teachings. My country’s citizens are fairly diverse in ethnicity and religion, so anything that would incite conflict within our country would not be taught to us as a part of Islam ). And I am aware of that, but due to my upbringing, I can not justify harm to other people by religion. I am not sure, why are you quoting this to the person, who does not beleive in that, as those come from a different branch of faith.
“Projection–the idea that if Infidels object to being victimized by Muslims that they are engaged in “hating everyone blindly”. *Ugh*.” – Again, one of the core beleifs here is that a proper pratising muslim should not have hatred in them. And I am not saying that those muslims, who are acting intolerant towards other religions are right – it’s the opposite. It’s just that I can see a lot of hatred towards muslims as a whole, despite the fact that there are muslims (at least in my country, cause I can only see it directly here), who do not share those views, which result in hatred against the muslims. I understand your anger, I just wanted to share my knowledge of beleifs, which are different to what people might be used to. Culture of my country is mostly unknown to the outside world, despite the sheer size of the country, just 5 years ago, a lot of people were unable to even point at it’s location on the map, so I would think that our views on religion are even more obscure to the rest of the world.
“You don’t consider this forcing Islam on others?
“Kazakhstan: Convert from Islam to Christianity gets 2 years prison for inciting religious hatred”
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/12/kazakhstan-convert-from-islam-to-christianity-gets-2-years-prison-for-inciting-religious-hatred
Do you believe that Muslims should be able to leave Islam if they want to? It is orthodox Islam to persecute such people.” – I beleive that muslims or otherwise should be able to leave the religion they are following (if you don’t beleive it, then there is no point in stayin, is there? According to most religions, God is an all-knowing entity that sees right through your soul, after all). The topic which you pointed to – extremist and destructive branches of religions are forbidden in this country, be it Islam or Christianity or anything else. That guy was suspected to promote intolerance towards muslims (war against them and acts of terror), acts of violence and use of psychotropic substances. This is not a single case, where people with those kind of practices were prosecuted – the same thing happened to extremist muslims as well. Inciting war, acts of terror and hate is forbidden in Kazakhstan. Thats the reason why I actually read information from different sources, I have noticed that a lot of it is presented quite differently, depending on the reaction the originator might want to get. Take this topic as an example – the title states “muslim-migrant”, that automatically draws attention to the subject of blame here – he is a muslim and he is a migrant. In my country it said “African-migrant”, which automatically brought about comments like “he probably mistook it for a palm tree”,”what would you expect from those migrants” and such (yes, we are racist, not to the point of fascism, but to the point where those kinds of remarks are taken as a witty joke, by a lot of people, rather than offence – which it is). Again, acts of terror – those I have no doubts about, people who commited them, regardless of their reasons are bad, an average person in my country would never say – “yeah, serves them right”, just because the offender is a muslim and a victim isn’t. And yes, that includes forcing one’s views on other people, by trying to make them follow it. Would I be offended if someone ate pork in front of me? No, as long as they are not forcing me to eat it, I’m fine. Would I be offended if a person raped another person? Yes. Would I someone view killing someone as bad? Yes, but I have a double standard for that – if its a terrorist, who is about to kill someone and there is no other way to stop them, then killing him should be ok. Misplaced pity and mercy is bad in my opinion, but I can see how it can be bad from other points of view. That is part of the reason why people were arguing about aboloshing death sentences for the worst of the criminals.
TLDR – I did not defend the acts of terrors caused by muslims and was not talking about the “mainstream” Islam teachings. Just wanted to share that there is a different beleif system in Islam, just like there are various branches (some of which do include extreme ones, albeit being in minority) in Christianity, because I dislike blanket terms and I do see the tendency for that, when people talk about muslims, as even you can not beleive me and think that I am a muslim, who is trying to defend the acts of violence and intolerance, coming from other muslims (thats not the case here, trust me).
MTMLA says
How can anyone follow a cult started by that murderous, thief, pedophile , liar Mohammed, and claim him as an example whose life needs to be celebrated and imitate..unless you are a sicko also.
MTMLA says
BTW the guy who drove on top of people and killed several in NY is a muslim from Kazakhstan.
LeftisruiningCanada says
As i remember it, Mr “sword of allah” was originally from Tashkent in Uzbekistan.
It’s quite a different place altogether, in many ways.
But then, the nation of islam is independent of national borders. Like the communists and the Borg.
MTMLA says
The 19 yr.old innocent daughter of a German politician was raped and drowned by a Afghanistan “child” of 33 yrs old. It was very sad. The poor young girl was the victim of her dad’s folly.I wonder if her dad believes in the strength of diversity now.