Muhammad, according to Islamic belief, was given the Qur’an from Allah, through the angel Gabriel. The Qur’an denies central tenets of Christianity in numerous ways:
Jesus is not the Son of God, and belief in the Trinity is “excess”: “O People of the Book! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter anything concerning Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and his word which he conveyed to Mary, and a spirit from him. So believe in Allah and his messengers, and do not say “Three.” Cease! Better for you! Allah is only one Allah. Far is it removed from his transcendent majesty that he should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as defender.” — Qur’an 4:171
And: “It is not befitting to Allah that he should beget a son. Glory be to him! When he determines a matter, he only says to it, ‘Be,’ and it is.” — Qur’an 19:35
Jesus was not crucified: “And because of their saying: ‘We killed the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah’s messenger’ – they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared so to them; and those who disagree concerning it are in doubt about it; they have no knowledge of it except pursuit of a guess; they did not kill him for certain.” — Qur’an 4:157
Those who believe in the divinity of Christ are unbelievers: “They have certainly disbelieved who say that Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary.” — Qur’an 5:17
Christians have forgotten part of the divine revelations they received: “From those, too, who call themselves Christians, we took a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them from one another with enmity and hatred until the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done.” — Qur’an 5:14
Those who believe that Jesus is God’s Son are accursed: “The Jews call Ezra son of Allah, and the Christians call the Messiah the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; they just imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! ” — Qur’an 9:30
Christians who do not accept Muhammad and the Qur’an are the most vile of created beings: “Nor did those who were given the Book become divided until after there had come to them clear evidence. And they were not commanded anything except to worship Allah, and to be sincere to him in religion, inclining to truth, and to establish prayer and to give zakat. And that is the correct religion. Indeed, those who disbelieved among the People of the Book and the polytheists will be in the fire of hell, abiding eternally in it. Those are the most vile of created beings.” — Qur’an 98:6
Muslims must fight against and subjugate Christians: “Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the last day, nor forbid what has been forbidden forbidden by Allah and his messenger, and do not acknowledge the religion of truth, even if they are of the People of the Book, until they pay the jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” — Qur’an 9:29
“Advent-cum-Mawlid: church holds joint birthday celebration for Mohammed and Jesus,” Archbishop Cranmer, December 4, 2017 (thanks to David):
Mawlid (or Milad) is the Islamic festival commemorating the birthday of Mohammed. The only thing it has in common with Christmas is that it isn’t actually the day the celebrated baby was born. Yet All Saints Church in Kingtson upon Thames thinks there’s an interfaith syncretised opportunity to be found in holding a joint birthday celebration for both Mohammed and Jesus – so they put the flags out for both, rejoicing in both, eulogising both, solemnising both, glorifying both, honouring both…
But note how this event is “Marking the birthday of Prophet Mohammed”, but not looking forward to the birthday of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Mohammed gets his prophethood, while Jesus gets neither his prophethood nor his priesthood; neither his kingship nor his messiahship. It’s the exalted Prophet Mohammed along with plain old Jesus, because to have added any of his claims to divinity would, of course, have alienated many Muslims (if they hadn’t already been alienated by the haram celebration), which wouldn’t have been very interfaith or sensitively missional, would it?
We have been here before: when Westminster Abbey hosted a service in which Mohammed was named in the succession of prophets, they effectively proclaimed to the world that Mohammed is greater than Jesus:
In Islamic theology, Mohammed was ‘The Prophet’ who came to fulfil and complete the partial revelations of all preceding prophets. Muslims believe that his coming was prophesied by Jesus: ‘But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father..‘ (Jn 15:26). The ‘Comforter’ or ‘Advocate’ (NIV) whom Christians believe to be the Holy Spirit is, for Muslims, Mohammed. So when he is declared in Westminster Abbey to be ‘The Chosen One’, it is not simply a benign multifaith expression of ecumenical respect in a commemorative service of reconciliation: it is a dogmatic affirmation of a perfected prophethood to which Jesus is subordinate, and His divinity thereby denied.
And then, of course, there was the act of divine worship in St Mary’s Cathedral, Glasgow, in which it was declared publicly from the Qur’an that God can have no sons, and so the Gospel writers were engaged in a blasphemous deceit. Every time a church accords Mohammed the epithet ‘Prophet’, they are rejecting the crucifixion, denying the resurrection of Christ, and refuting that the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, for Mohammed denied all of these foundational tenets of the Christian faith. The Jesus he espoused is the plain old one – no more than a prophet, and certainly an inferior one to him…..
Kay says
Can’t even read it. Just the headline makes me nauseous.
le mouron rouge says
Kay says
Dec 8, 2017 at 4:21 pm
Can’t even read it. Just the headline makes me nauseous.
*********************
I agree.
The church in the U.K. and sadly too many in the U.S. have lost their moral compass and they are misleading many people.
“My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.”
– Hosea 4:6
James says
Anglicanism is merely atheism and unbelief clad in vestments. It is an organisation for the destruction of Christianity. The CC is contaminated by it, and needs to avoid it as it would a mad dog, Richard Dawkins is more Christian than these people, One can only be extremely sorry for all those practicising Anglicans who, yet again, have been stabbed in the back by people who are supposedly meant to be Christian clergy, yet allow this. Clergy appear to imagine that they were ordained to be members of the League of the Godless.
mortimer says
James, many Anglican clergy are far more counterjihad than you realize. There are virtually NO padres or former padres (of any denomination) who are NOT NOW counterjihadists. They had to learn about the enemy in the military. The present archbishop of Canterbury is a counterjihadists.
In all denominations, there are uninformed clergy who think they can conquer Islam with Christian love. Bill Warner said that LOVE DOESN’T CONQUER ISLAM.
Jayell says
Hello Mortimer. I really don’t know about counterjihadism amongst C of E padres, but I have doubts about the strength of conviction of the clergy in general and even more doubts about the Archbishop. The C of E trades under the name of Jesus Christ and uses the ‘cross’ logo, but was founded as the ‘spiritual wing’ of the official UK Establishment and, as an integral component of Parliament with official government links, it essentially fulfils the function of ‘Her Majesty’s Department of God’. Consequently, if it presents itself as an organisation dedicated to the promotion of the teachings of Jesus Christ, its behaviour and track record of ‘bending the rules’ to suit political expediency might lay it open to prosecution under the UK Trades Descriptions laws. Clearly, with the insidious infiltration of islam into the UK establishment, there is highly likely to be a serious problem.
This is not a new scenario for the C of E, as illustrated in the satirical song from the 17th. century:-
“In good King Charles’ golden time, when loyalty no harm meant,
A zealous high churchman was I, and so I gained preferment.
To teach my flock, I never missed: Kings are by God appointed
And damned are those who dare resist or touch the Lord’s anointed!
(Chorus)
And this be law, that I’ll maintain until my dying day, sir
That whatsoever king may reign, Still I’ll be the Vicar of Bray, sir.
When royal James possessed the crown, and popery came in fashion,
The penal laws I hooted down, and read the Declaration.
The Church of Rome, I found, did fit full well my constitution
And I had been a Jesuit, but for the Revolution.
(Chorus)……
When William was our King declared, to ease the nation’s grievance,
With this new wind about I steered, and swore to him allegiance.
Old principles I did revoke; Set conscience at a distance,
Passive obedience was a joke, a jest was non-resistance.
(Chorus)…….
When Royal Anne became our queen, the Church of England’s glory,
Another face of things was seen, and I became a Tory.
Occasional conformists base; I blamed their moderation;
And thought the Church in danger was from such prevarication.
(Chorus)…..
When George in pudding time came o’er, and moderate men looked big, sir
My principles I changed once more, and I became a Whig, sir.
And thus preferment I procured From our new Faith’s Defender,
And almost every day abjured the Pope and the Pretender.
(Chorus)….
The illustrious House of Hanover and Protestant succession
To these I do allegiance swear – while they can hold possession.
For in my faith and loyalty I never more will falter,
And George my lawful king shall be – until the times do alter.
(Chorus)……
There you go, nothing changes, does it? What we want now is a verse 7 for when the new ‘Good King Charles’ gets his hands on the controls, and Mohammed makes an appearance. Any ideas?
gravenimage says
There are definitely some Anglican clergy who are Anti-Jihadist. Bishop Patrick Sookhdeo stands out.
james moser says
Lack of knowledge, such as out of ignorance being gullible in blindly accepting a dishonest translation by Muslims with the substitution of “Christians” in the Qur’an for “Nasarah” (A heretical Christian cult). No one could suggest that Jehovah Witnesses’ are Christians. The same is true of the Arabian Nasarah being Christians.
Jack Dawkins says
Jehovah’s Witnesses are just as Christian as you can ever hope to be.
gravenimage says
I don’t want to see *any* of these people persecuted by Muslims.
roger woodhouse says
Just another bunch of misguided virtue signallers.Dangerouse though they are, not to be taken seriously.They are though adding to the numbers leaving the mainstream Christian church.We can only blame past and present ‘swinging lefty liberal’ Archbishops for this trend.
John Forbes says
CURRENTLY, THE CHRISTIAN CHURCHES ARE TOTALLY FULL OF WELL-MEANING NAIVE IDIOTS.
NOW IT SEEMS THE CATHOLICS ARE STRICKEN WITH A NAIVE BUT REMARKABLY STUPID POPE!
THE CHURCH OF ENGLAND STARTED WITH UNIMAGINABLE IGNORANCE & STUPIDITY STATED BY THE ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY WHO OFFERED SHARIA WITHOUT THE MUSLIM EVEN ASKING FOR IT!
THE ANGER & OUTRAGE GOT HIM EARLY RETIREMENT BUT A PLACE AT THE LOCAL NUTTER HOUSE WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER!
THEN THERE WAS THE BISHOP WITH A SEVERE CASE OF DEMENTIA WHO AFTER THE MANCHESTER BOMBING – ACTUALLY STATED – WE MAY NEVER KNOW WHY!
THE WHY IS ON LEAFLETS, SCREAMED OUT IN MOSQUES & MADRASSAS & SHOUTED AT RALLIES!
WE HATE YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE NON-BELIEVERS & ALLOW THINGS NOT ALLOWED IN SHARIA!
HOW MUCH DAMB CLEARER DOES THIS HAVE TO BE ?????
John S. Obeda says
The apostle Paul tells the Christians in Corinth and to us too what the will of God is concerning these matters: : “Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God.” 2 Corinthians 6:14f. Shame on the Christians who do their own will and ignore God’s will.
Mark Swan says
Thank you John S. Obeda.
mummymovie says
More stupid “interfaith” appeasement schemes that will not appeal to muslims, and will not work to get them to wish to join in harmoniously and reciprocate with kindness toward us despised infidels.
An asinine waste of time and energy.
Lydia says
And an abomination and blasphemy aside from compromise.
A big ‘no-no’!
This is NEVER okay, no Christian has any excuse for that.
That is the one group who should know better!
Enrique says
According to Scripture, there is only one Church that Our Lord founded, and those mentioned in this article are not part of it.
All Saints Church in Kingtson upon Thames and Westminsster Abbey are part of the Anglican Church. The Anglican Church was founded by King Henry VIII in opposition to Christ’s Church because the king wanted to commit adultery. So it shouldn’t surprise they are praising Mohammmed.
le mouron rouge says
Enrique says
Dec 8, 2017 at 5:01 pm
According to Scripture, there is only one Church that Our Lord founded, and those mentioned in this article are not part of it.
*******************************
Unfortunately, there are far too many Christians in name only, it’s specific to any denomination.
According to data from the Barna Research Group:
–60% of Americans can’t name even 5 of the 10 Commandments.
–82% of Americans believe ‘God helps those who help themselves’ is in the Bible.
–The majority of adults believe the Bible teaches that the most important purpose
in life is taking care of one’s family.
–Over 50% of graduating high school seniors thought that Sodom and Gomorrah were
husband and wife.
–A considerable number of respondents thought the Sermon on the Mount was
preached by Billy Graham.
le mouron rouge says
********* Correction **********
Unfortunately, there are far too many Christians in name only, it’s “not” specific to any denomination.
Enrique says
We can blame the apostasy on Christians being deceived by impostors dressed up as Christians. There is only one Church and only that Church is Christian; Christ didn’t establish any “denominations.” Therefore that would be the work of humans with Satan. Everyone is required to resist error and sincerely search for Truth.
Only Catholics in the Catholic Church who remain faithful to Christ are Christian. One can’t be partially Christian.
LeftisruiningCanada says
So it’s membership in your church + faith in Christ that saves then?
Enrique says
LeftisruiningCanada,
It’s only logical that if Christ is God, and founded only one Church, anyone who is culpably outside of it cannot be eternally saved.
le mouron rouge says
Enrique says
Dec 8, 2017 at 9:58 pm
Only Catholics in the Catholic Church who remain faithful to Christ are Christian. One can’t be partially Christian.
******************
As a former Roman Catholic, I disagree with your assessment.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Enrique, remind me where Christ said we have to be in a certain church organization to be forgiven, would you.
Next you’ll be telling me James contradicts Paul!
I believe that there is no salvation outside of the Church….but that is the true universal Church made up of all those regenerated believers who trust in Christ alone to save them. This inward looking cultishness is the basic error of Roman Catholicism, imho.
le mouron rouge says
Enrique says
Dec 8, 2017 at 9:58 pm
Everyone is required to resist error and sincerely search for Truth.
Only Catholics in the Catholic Church who remain faithful to Christ are Christian. One can’t be partially Christian.
*********
Really?
The Roman Catholic Catechism teaches:
The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”
Roman Catholic Catechism, Page 223, Section 841
Revised in accordance with the official Latin text promulgated by Pope John Paul II
Copyright 1994, 1997.
http://ccc.usccb.org/flipbooks/catechism/index.html#223/z
“The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator?”
Is that teaching, True or False?
The Bible states:
“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the “Lord Jesus”, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”
– Romans 10:9 (KJV)
Islam adores the same God as Jews and Christians?
True or False?
It appears that the RCC is in error and therefore a false teacher.
Enrique says
LeftisruiningCanada,
Consider that Christ founded only one Church, and that He did this with exactly 12 apostles, and that he told them: “Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven. Whose sins you shall retain they are retained.” (John 20:23). To absolve someone of their sins is a supernatural power which He alone (given divine nature) had, and which He alone could transmit.
“…but that is the true universal Church made up of all those regenerated believers who trust in Christ alone to save them.”
What could this aseertion possibly mean if all these so called “regenerated believers” who “trust in Christ”, can believe whatever they want, and obey Him only insofar as they want? Christ warned that if one loves Him, one must keep His commandmenrts (John 14:15). And He didn’t want multiple mutually contradicting sects (John 17:21). And, after He resurrected, He only told one apostle: “Feed my sheep.” (John 21:15-17).
Enrique says
Le mouron rouge,
You are quoting from the post Vatican II catechism, and it contradicts what the RCC had traditionally taught for over 1900 years. Therefore, those who approved it are heretics.
“‘The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator?’ Is that teaching, True or False?”
No one who culpably rejects the Blessed Trinity can be saved.
“Islam adores the same God as Jews and Christians?”
True or False? That is false, because they reject Christ is divine, and reject the Blessed Trinity. The RCC does not teach that. But Catholics who are either ignorant/confused or heretical have been misled by what counterfeit or ignorant members of the “hierarchy” are teaching since Vatican II. Since Christ’s Church can not teach error, and never has. Therefore, Vatican II can not be considered its teaching, and Catholics are going through a crisis.
Jews prior to Christ were divided about Him. Some rejected Him while others became His disciples. The former rejected God, and therefore do not wordhip Him. The latter worship God. Cultural Jews who worship the Blessed Trinity and belong to the true Church worship God.
gravenimage says
I’m afraid there is as much dhimmitude in the Catholic Church as with many other Christian denominations.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Enrique said:
“LeftisruiningCanada,
Consider that Christ founded only one Church, and that He did this with exactly 12 apostles, and that he told them: “Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven. Whose sins you shall retain they are retained.” (John 20:23). To absolve someone of their sins is a supernatural power which He alone (given divine nature) had, and which He alone could transmit.
And that says absolutely nothing about Rome.
“Transmit”. That’s an interesting way to look at it. Totally disagree of course. Only God can forgive sins. You can ask Him directly to forgive you for Christ’s sake.
“…but that is the true universal Church made up of all those regenerated believers who trust in Christ alone to save them.”
What could this aseertion possibly mean if all these so called “regenerated believers” who “trust in Christ”, can believe whatever they want, and obey Him only insofar as they want? Christ warned that if one loves Him, one must keep His commandmenrts (John 14:15). And He didn’t want multiple mutually contradicting sects (John 17:21). And, after He resurrected, He only told one apostle: “Feed my sheep.” (John 21:15-17).”
Nice strawman. Who says we can believe whatever we want?
You miss the fact that regeneration means a new spirit and a new heart (psalm 51), which want to obey where before there was only rebellion.
Are you obeying Christ? Tell me, when you sin, are those sins imputed to you?
You focus too much on the outward visible aspect of things. All those that trust in Christ are one – they are all in Christ, part of His worldwide body of regenerated believers.
Peter was simply being reinstated to the same position he had, before he denied Christ three times. Notice how Christ asks Peter three times?
The others did not need reinstating, hence they are not commanded to feed His sheep – they were already commissioned.
Can i ask you a question? Do you believe that Peter’s Chair is currently empty?
Enrique says
gravenimage writes: “I’m afraid there is as much dhimmitude in the Catholic Church as with many other Christian denominations.”
———————-
There surely appears to be dhimmitude or something like it in many of those falsely claiming to be the hierarchs of the Catholic Church.
One is either a Christian or is not a Christian. Christians share the same faith, not different ones. It’s misleading to call groups with different and even opposing beliefs “Christian.”
gravenimage says
Good to know that you and you alone are equipped to call out all of these heretics…
LeftisruiningCanada says
Gravenimage, i’m taking a guess, but i’m pretty sure Enrique is a sedevacantist:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedevacantism
It is interesting, kind of like spotting a rare bird in flight.
gravenimage says
Probably so, LeftisruiningCanada.
In any case, he clearly considers almost everyone to be a fake Christian or otherwise beyond the pale–this goes way beyond considering the sort of dhimmitude in this story to be harmful.
maghan says
And Joan of Arc was Noah’s wife. Incredible!
gravenimage says
Enrique, many Anglicans have stood against the threat of Islam over the centuries. But now Christians of many denominations are foolishly appeasing Islam.
Enrique says
It’s great that many Anglicans in the past stood up to Islam, but that isn’t enough to claim one is a Christian.
le mouron rouge says
Enrique says
Dec 8, 2017 at 10:01 pm
It’s great that many Anglicans in the past stood up to Islam, but that isn’t enough to claim one is a Christian.
*********************************
Pope Francis asks Waldensian Christians to forgive the Church
http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2015/06/22/pope-francis-asks-waldensian-christians-to-forgive-the-church/
NY Catholic Church pays $40 million to sex abuse victims
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/07/ny-catholic-church-pays-40-million-to-sex-abuse-victims.html
These stories are only the tip of the cruelty and immorality that has been part of the RCC for centuries.
Frank Anderson says
It’s hard not to let anger and fury rule when people betray trust. People are people: they have weaknesses that can and do disqualify them from positions of trust. I suggest that over more or less 2,000 years, and literally millions of people in positions of trust, the law of large numbers rules the day. “That which is not prohibited is required.” The failures are, (how many words can be applied?), but the real betrayal is what is done to stop the misconduct instead of sweeping under cover and allowing it to continue. Until recently, if even now, the effort to end misconduct and remove those who do not deserve trust have been disappointing. Humans, no matter how good they are, have imperfections. Honest dealing with breaches of trust is essential to the whole concept of trust. In the absence of honest dealing, there can be no trust.
Enrique says
mouron rouge,
I don’t believe Francis is the legitimate head of the Roman Catholic Church. In addition, almost all bishops have apostasized, as demonstrated by the fact that they don’t protest previously condemned heresies such as interreligious prayer.
The abuse of Catholics by what are presumed to be legitimate Catholic priests is an offense for which there are no words. Fallen man commits grave sins. Judas betrayed Christ. Thomas doubted. Peter denied him. Yet they had all been witnesses to his miracles and teachings. Christ came from God to redeem us from orginal sin, and even if some, many, or even most individual catholics fail Him, the gates of hell will not prevail, because He said so.
What we see happening in Catholicsm today is a mystery, perhaps explained by 2 Thessalonians 2. Or perhaps it’s a chastisement by Christ for the unspeakably grave offenses of the baptized.
I left the Church for many years, and when I returned, I found what we can all now see. But I am certain that I didn’t return in vain. He is not a sinner like us. He is all pure, all good. I pray that I may keep the only true faith until I die. If anyone seeks the truth humbly and sincerely He will not dissapoint.
gravenimage says
Enrique, it sounds as though you believe that virtually all Christians are actually heretics and apostates.
Enrique says
What do you mean by “many denominations?” Many different beliefs?
Jesus C says
You are a boastful hypocrite like the philistines.
mortimer says
Enrique, how are you Roman Catholics doing with your dhimmi JIHADIST POPE?
Enrique says
We don’t have a pope. The chair of Peter is vacant. The Vicar of Christ, visible head of all Christians. can not be a heretic.
le mouron rouge says
Enrique says
Dec 8, 2017 at 11:51 pm
We don’t have a pope. The chair of Peter is vacant. The Vicar of Christ, visible head of all Christians. can not be a heretic.
***********************
Actually the RCC has 2 Popes, Benedict XVI is still with us.
Enrique says
The RCC can’t have two popes.
In addition, I consider Benedict XVI also a heretic (and therefore not a former pope) given, for example, his praying with Muslims facing Mecca, contradicting Christ by his unwillingness to convert others to the true faith as Christ explicitly commanded, etc.
LeftisruiningCanada says
And who are you exactly to be questioning the authority of the Church?
Your own position refutes you: you claim for the Roman Church exclusive descent from Peter, but then you think you can dispute the office of the Papacy!
On what grounds can you legitimately do that? You can’t refer backwards to previous statements issued by other popes, because only the church has the ability to interpret them. You also can’t hold the pope to Scripture, because again only the church can interpret Scripture for you.
You have your opinion, which is worthless so far as your church is concerned.
Infact, you would be asked to repent or face excommunication.
Sound familiar?
Enrique says
LeftisruiningCanada,
I’m affirming the office of the papacy, not disputing it. That’s why I (and also a few others) respect what it taught since apostolic times. But that’s not what those claiming the office of the papacy today do. They contradict previous popes. That’s why I don’t accept their claim tpo the papacy.
You are correct though that only the Church has the legitimate authority. But that’s also why they don’t have it.
LeftisruiningCanada says
But has the Church declared what you say? How can you decide what does and does not contradict previous popes, since only the Church can interpret what they said?
If you believe that the Church is the highest authority, how can you appeal to anything higher with which to judge them as being heretical?
I’m only arguing this from the roman catholic perspective, i don’t hold to any of it.
LeftisruiningCanada says
“The Church has always condemned heresies and heretics, and it alone has the legitimate authority to do so. That’s what I affirm.”
It seems to me, please help to understand if i’m wrong here, that you affirm and contradict this statement at the same time.
You call the current and previous popes of rome heretics, and yet the church has not done so.
Me thinks the catholic protests too much….
Enrique says
LeftisruiningCanada,
I believe I already answered your objection. Perhaps it will help if I add that there being no pope at present, Catholics must look to the Magisterium’s pre Vatican II teachings.
LeftisruiningCanada says
But…..your church, the one you say is the only true church, does not agree with you.
If you were a good catholic, you would listen to the voice of the living church.
OR, you could abandon the church of Rome, with all of it’s idolatrous add-ons, and return to simple faith in Christ.
I hope you will.
Enrique says
LeftisruiningCanada wrote: “But has the Church declared what you say? How can you decide what does and does not contradict previous popes, since only the Church can interpret what they said?”
The Church had already prepared the faithful through various papal encyclicals and other doicuments regarding what heresies to watch out for. This implies that the Church believed they could be identified as such by the faithful. Otherwise they wouldn’t have bothered to write and publish them. The pre-1959 encyclicas (etc.) are already the Church’s interpretation. No other interpretation is required. I just follow what they teach, as should every believer. They make perfect sense from the perspective of the faith.
————————-
LeftisruiningCanada wrote: “If you believe that the Church is the highest authority, how can you appeal to anything higher with which to judge them as being heretical?”
The highest authority is the Blessed Trinity. And the Church is its Church. I’m not appealing to anything higher. I’m just following what the Church had always taught. If one deliberately didn’t do that, or wilfully ignored it, one would be a heretic.
———————————————————
LeftisruiningCanada wrote: “You call the current and previous popes of rome heretics, and yet the church has not done so.”
That’s because the visible government of the Church has been usurped by those who contradict the teachings of the Church. . The Church had already condemned as heresy, for example, the counterfeit hierarchy’s teaching that there can be salvation through other religions, and had prohibited praying with other religions. And that was made plain and clear to the faithful, prior to these usurpers. And that should be enough for anyone.
LeftisruiningCanada says
“. No other interpretation is required. I just follow what they teach, as should every believer. They make perfect sense from the perspective of the faith.”
But you are interpreting the encyclicals.
Have you sought the majesterium’s opinion on all this, because i think their opinion counts more than yours.
It is very interesting that you find yourself in a position just like that of the Reformers. Only their authority was the Bible of course, not the changing opinions of men.
Has the church ever changed it’s mind before?
Enrique says
LeftisruiningCanada writes: “Has the church ever changed it’s mind before?”
The Church’s dogmas don’t and can’t change inasmuch as truth does not change.
LeftisruiningCanada says
But now it seems as if the claim that there is no salvation outside the roman church may not be quite so strict, right?
Why don’t you listen to the voice of the living church, the one you say is the only true church?
Enrique says
Gravenimage writes: “Good to know that you and you alone are equipped to call out all of these heretics…”
That’s a mischaracterization. Where did I write what you claim?
The Church has always condemned heresies and heretics, and it alone has the legitimate authority to do so. That’s what I affirm.
I am just being faithful to what the Church has taught before the usurpation by fraudulent hierarchs, before they started contradicting it in union with heretics.
Wellington says
When did said “usurpation by fraudulent hierarchs” occur, Enrique, according to you?
Champ says
Aw more abhorrent participants supporting the evil “Chrislam” movement …
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2Br1EH-_1A
le mouron rouge says
Champ,
Thank you for the post.
Shahram Hadian is clearly a warrior in the battle against Islam.
Here is another:
I.Q. al-Rassooli, Islam and Deception – http://www.vcyamerica.org/crosstalk.htm
gravenimage says
Thanks, Champ. “Christlam” is grotesque, and extremely dangerous.
James says
This is Tashlanism. Except that this is not fiction.
Champ says
You’re welcome, le mouron rouge and Graven.
Ivan Rittenberg says
Im not a theologian but I know history. When Emperor Constantine (Circa 325 AD) declared Christianity the State Religion of the Roman Empire the priests of Jupiter became Catholic Priests or lost their state jobs. Jupiter’sTemple became a Cathedral and you can see this in Rome today. When Jerusalem fell to the Muslims the Bishop of Jerusalem converted to Islam. When Henry the VIII became “Anglican” the former Catholic Cardinals, Bishops, Priests and Brothers who wished to remain employed employed followed suit. Northern German Catholic Priest became Protestants. The eastern churches became “Orthodox” while southern Europe remained mostly Catholic.
The Point is maybe these guys are testing the water in case a move in employment becomes necessary?
I know the history is correct but need I day the point is mostly tongue in cheek.
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
“When Emperor Constantine (Circa 325 AD) declared Christianity the State Religion of the Roman Empire the priests of Jupiter became Catholic Priests or lost their state jobs. Jupiter’sTemple became a Cathedral and you can see this in Rome today.”
I don’t ever remember reading that in my antiquities texts.
“When Jerusalem fell to the Muslims the Bishop of Jerusalem converted to Islam.”
I thought they became dhimmis.
“The eastern churches became “Orthodox” while southern Europe remained mostly Catholic. ”
I thought they were always orthodox.
LeftisruiningCanada says
There is some confusion here i think.
:When Emperor Constantine (Circa 325 AD) declared Christianity the State Religion of the Roman Empire the priests of Jupiter became Catholic Priests or lost their state jobs. Jupiter’s Temple became a Cathedral and you can see this in Rome today.:
So far as i know, Constantine didn’t make Christianity the state religion. That occurred in 379/380 and was declared by Theodosis, the then emperor. Constantine did bring a final close to centuries of persecution of Christians with the Edict of Milan in 313, but that only granted Christianity the same status as other religions. He also seemed to want to make some reparations to the Christians for the terrors done upon them by the Roman Empire before him, not least by assisting with the costs of Church repairs/construction, and by comissioning 50 Bibles of the first quality be made. It is thought that Codex Aleph and Vaticanus may be such.
Im not sure about the priests of jupiter thing. I may be was you say, or perhaps some genuinely converted or whatever. I don’t believe that all priests/pastors are ever necessarily regenerate.
“The eastern churches became “Orthodox” while southern Europe remained mostly Catholic.”
Was this out of chronological order in your comment? But, again so far as i know, in the early Church, there was only the “catholic” church – it just means “universal” or “according to the whole”, and has no relation to Roman Catholicism, itself a later development. Once the divide between East and West progressed, the East then regarded themselves as being the correctly worshiping or “orthodox” church, hence the name.
gravenimage says
Ivan, your idea that people of faith always cave in when the political winds change is incorrect.
As for the head of the Christian Church in Jerusalem converting to Islam after the Muslim conquest, this is mistaken. The Muslim conquest of Jerusalem was in 636 AD, and Patriarch Sophronius remained as patriarch there until his death in 638 AD. He negotiated the greatest protections for Christians that he could manage with the Muslim invaders.
Today he is venerated as a saint in both the Eastern Orthodox Church and Roman Catholic Church.
Enrique says
No one in the Roman empire could have “become a priest” without being sacramentally ordained. And if they had no interior intention of becoming Catholic priests, they would not have received the sacrament despite appearances.
It’s true, however, that almost all Catholic Cardinals apostasized from the true faith, and followed Henry VIII (who had only recently been an anti-Lutheran Catholic). The two that didn’t, Saint Thomas More and Saint John Fisher were beheaded by the apostate king.
I pray for the day Christ will be finally recognized by all as King of kings, King of all nations, Lord of lords, as He is.
James says
@Enrique:
Which “Catholic Cardinals” are you talking about ? The OP seems to be talking about 4th-century Rome. What apostate Cardinals were there then ? None. As for Henry VIII, there was only one English cardinal when England broke from Rome, St John Fisher, Cardinal-bishop of Rochester. Who suffered martyrdom for the Catholic Faith in 1535, a year after the Henrician schism began. He was a firm opponent of Protestantism – never an apostate,
He was the only Catholic bishop, out of 14 or so, to stand firm. The rest did not. However, in 1559, when the Catholic bishops were required to break with Rome again, all stood firm except one.
James says
St Thomas More was never a bishop or cardinal. He was a layman.
Enrique says
James, Sorry for that error referring to St. Thomas More as a cardinal. I have read parts of his last works (at the tower where he was imprisoned) and knew he was Henry VIII’s prime minister and not a cardinal.
Saint John Fisher was the only cardinal not to apostasize, although he was only made a cardinal once in prison. But both were executed.
I wrote that king Henry VIII was an apostate, not Saint John Fisher.
Wellington says
Enrique: You have made another mistake about Sir Thomas More. He was Lord Chancellor, not Prime Minister. The latter office didn’t even exist until the 18th century with Robert Walpole usually considered the first PM. Even then the title, Prime Minister, was only unofficial (and initially was used as a term of contempt) with the official title being First Lord of the Treasury. The term “Prime Minister” did not become official until the early years of the 20th century.
James says
“the priests of Jupiter became Catholic Priests or lost their state jobs. Jupiter’sTemple became a Cathedral and you can see this in Rome today.”
Evidence, please ?
“When Jerusalem fell to the Muslims the Bishop of Jerusalem converted to Islam.”
St Sophronius of Jerusalem (560-638) lived and died in the Catholic Faith. He never fell away to the Muslim cult. He would not be honoured as a Saint by Catholics and Orthodox alike, if he had “converted to Islam’.
Is your history taken from Professor Jack Chick ?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophronius_of_Jerusalem
James says
The Pope’s cathedral is the Archbasilica of St John Lateran. Before it became a church and cathedral, it was an Imperial palace. It has never been a temple, whether of Jupiter or any other heathen god.
There is not a word of truth in those quotations.
Enrique says
@ Wellington, I believe I had read he was prime minister somewhere and see that some online sources regard it as equivalent to Lord Chancellor. But according to Wikipedia he “… was also a councillor to Henry VIII, and Lord High Chancellor of England.” So, thank you for pointing that out.
Let us not lose sight of the main point I was making, that is, that he was executed for not approving to Henry VIII’s adulterous union in opposition to the Church.
Tom says
The Liberal mind is an abyss of insanity and its contagion is spread by the denial of reality. These liberals belive if they ignore the Islamic mentality of supremacy and oppression that they will be able to live in peace. They, of course, fail to take into account that Islam has no mandate to live peacefully with anyone, especially those who they perceive as non believers.
Those ministers and priests who bow to Islam will find they will be decapitated both figuratively, and perhaps, also in reality
Manny says
What a disgrace. What an insult to Jesus Christ. Mohammed the rapist, the murder, the bigamist, the child sex addict is the very opposite of Christ. That church should be ashamed of itself.
Guest says
Why would anyone celebrate that war monger’s birthday
Frank Anderson says
Other war mongers?
gravenimage says
Probably not. More likely, “interfaith” idiots who consider this a nice gesture to Muslims. Likely they either have no idea what Muhammed did and what he stands for, or else they are in deep denial over it.
Frank Anderson says
I don’t know! That is the reason for my “/”. I cannot believe the responses my questions locally about islam. The ignorance is stunning and appalling. The avoidance and denial is amazing. There are some unbelievable people running loose, and seem to be in charge of guiding other uninformed people off the cliff to death or slavery. The great Catholic teaching of “lighting one candle” has enormous merit.
Frank Anderson says
Bad eyesight: the ‘/’ was supposed to be ‘?’.
gravenimage says
Yes–the willful ignorance over Islam runs disturbingly deep.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Because islam copies everything, makes it worse, then claims it’s version came first/is best etc, and should be the only version allowed.
CogitoErgoSum says
As a Christian there is no other way that I can view Muhammad than as being a FALSE prophet. Jesus is The Way, the Truth and The Life. Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead so that all who believe in Him may gain eternal life. Jesus is the Son of God and the Redeemer of the world. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are three persons in one God. Muhammad denied all these things and spread lies throughout the land. To recognize Muhammad as a prophet is to deny the divinity of Christ. Anyone who calls himself a Christian should see Muhammad as a FALSE prophet and he and his mark upon the world should never be celebrated in any way by any Christian.
gravenimage says
And it is not just that he is a false prophet–everything he preached was profoundly *evil*.
Susan B says
The strange thing is the original Bible quote was “The Way, the Truth and The Light”. How the change from light to life came about is something to think about.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Do you have a citation for that?
John S. Obeda says
Yes, that’s the way it is, Cogito. It is a shame and sinful to have public worship services with Muslims who reject the Christ of the Bible. He who does so publicly denies the truth. 2 Corinthians 6:14f which I’ve quoted up above.
Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY) says
https://islamqa.info/en/249
says that Muhammad says he was born on a Monday. And Jesus’s birthday this year, December 25, 2017, also falls on a Monday. Can this be mere coincidence?
gravenimage says
Yes, this is a coincidence, Mark. Except for factoring in leap year, Christmas falls on a Monday every seven years. Nothing supernatural about this.
Voytek Gagalka says
Naivety of fellow Christians has no boundaries. If they would just make an effort to read what is in the Qur’an, they might open their eyes. But to actually READ Qur’an? Wouldn’t that be “Islamophobic”? They might see Robert Spencer frequently referencing to his handy book and known him branded as “Islamophobe,” so they assume that if they would do the same and read that book they might be accused of it, too. Oh, no!
simpleton1 says
One can google the chronological order, and read the koran in that order,
Find the abrogation verses, the koran then makes sense in its true morbid form and meaning.
gravenimage says
The first time I read the Qur’an I knew nothing about abrogation, and I was still horrified by it. Knowing the order of the Qur’an and about abrogation makes it slightly less confusing and just further confirms its violence.
gravenimage says
That should have been “confused” and not “confusing”.
nicholas tesdorf says
These ‘Chrislam’ celebrations are nothing more than joint services for God and the Devil. Study of the Qur’an, Hadith, and Sunna of Mohammed reveal no difference between ‘Allah’ and the Devil, and Mohammed was Allah’s Servant and Handmaiden.
mortimer says
Many Christians living under Islamic oppression consider Mohammed the Antichrist of the Book of Revelations.
WorkingClassPost says
Is it possible that insanity is contagious?
Has the religion of peace invented some demonic virus that will eventually claim us all?
Kingston is not too far from where I live, so quite tempted to pop over and have a word with the local appeasers, but need first to be sure that I won’t catch anything nasty.
le mouron rouge says
WorkingClassPost says
Dec 8, 2017 at 6:44 pm
Has the religion of peace invented some demonic virus that will eventually claim us all?
*******************
Islam “is” a work of Satan and by it’s very nature “demonic.”
And, yes, unless those in authority get some backbone and stand strong against this menace, we may in the near future face the decision, submit or die.
R Russell says
Demonic is the correct word to use, but until Christians in unison remember they have power over him nothing will change.
There are similar things across the UK.
At the beginning of this year St Mary’s episcopal cathedral in Glasgow allowed a Koran reading which stated Jesus is not God’s son. (The same church at the beginning of this week asked Christians to pray that Prince George would be gay)
There must be more. Chrislam could be part of the One World Government’s plan to unite all religions into one.
Lydia says
Jesus is God’s ONLY Son and Messenger. And gay is sin. The growing apostasy is staggering!
You said it, Chrislam is part of their one world religion plan by the one world government that will be the platform for antichrist.
Mohammed was a false prophet.
Don’t have anything to do with ‘interfaith’ anything!
See an article on Emergent Watch blog about chrislam dated today.
le mouron rouge says
R Russell says
Dec 8, 2017 at 7:12 pm
There must be more. Chrislam could be part of the One World Government’s plan to unite all religions into one.
*********************
Good point. That is a viable scenario.
WorkingClassPost says
Yes, and with all the talk about different interpretations of islam – the peaceful one and the violent one, I’d like to know just one thing…
What ‘interpretation’ of Christianity do these idiots have, and where did they get it from?
STJOHNOFGRAFTON says
All Saints Church in Kingtson upon Thames is an example of an apostate church.
2 Timothy 4:3-4 says this about them: “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.”
le mouron rouge says
STJOHNOFGRAFTON,
Amen!
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”
– Ephesians 6:12
gravenimage says
UK church holds joint birthday celebration for Muhammad and Jesus
……………………….
Why not combine Easter observances with the celebration of Hitler’s birthday? It wouldn’t be any more grotesque.
Champ says
Indeed! Great analogy, Graven.
LeftisruiningCanada says
But wuz an Nazi!
gravenimage says
Thanks, Champ and LeftisruiningCanada.
mortimer says
Agree with GI… or celebrate SATAN in the church!
Islam has killed more Christians than all OTHER PERSECUTORS.
gravenimage says
Grimly true, Mortimer.
James says
You got there before I did 🙂
Since the Prophet of Germany’s birthday falls on April 20, Easter could be a feast of Adolfchrist, Prophet of Nazistianity. To celebrate this important occasion, Nazistian publishers could publish “Through the Year with Adolfchrist”. Those fine old hymn “In the Swastika of Adolfchrist I glory”, and, “What a friend we have in Adi” could become ever more popular.
Eastecwould commemorate the glorious Resurrection of Germany and the Volk under the guidance of the God-sent Prophet Adolfchrist.
I’m sure the C of E would applaud this laudable ecumenical initative.
LR says
James…..That is funny…
LeftisruiningCanada says
Oy Vey.
The muslims love this.
But not for the reasons All Saints Church think.
ontheridge says
OK, if this is what they are doing, why don’t they include Milcom, Chemosh, Ashtoreth, and Molech, plus Dianah and the Queen of Heaven, oh, and we can’t forget Zeus and Hermes. How stupid! What are they thinking?
LeftisruiningCanada says
“What are they thinking?”
Probably that they are in South London, surrounded by the islamic horde, and that they don’t want to get bombed this Christmas.
Or something like that.
Shame. Would be better to go street peaching and show the country what muslims do to Christians when they stop acting like dhimmis.
Richard Paulsen says
I think that UK has bad conscience for the colonial times as Germany for the World Wars. The muslims gaining. It is very strange, but there is no other way to understand it.
Churches and most People not understanding muslims will take over, not respecting anything but islam and hating Jews and Christians.
Like in all countries ruled according to islam.
LeftisruiningCanada says
The corrosive action of leftist politics has much to do with it. That guilt you speak of is a result of the lies that flow from it. The UK has no more than anyone else to be ashamed of imho, and much to celebrate. The best countries in the world were birthed by her and her values. That’s no small thing.
That is the legacy that the left cannot allow the UKs children to believe in.
It would upset their plans.
mortimer says
Richard, the British are too damn concerned about being POLITE with a bunch of genocidal supremacists.
Muslims do not see GOOD MANNERS or politeness… they see SUBMISSION … they think ALLAH IS FORCING THE STUPID BRITSH TO SUBMIT TO US. Allah Akbar!
James says
A very astute post.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Yep, that’s exactly the appearance being given.
Our own western sensibilities combined with Leftist politics are making us act just like they expect Dhimmis to behave.
Hence their boldness
gravenimage says
True, Mortimer, James, and LeftisruiningCanada.
George says
The word “morons” come to mind? They’ve completely lost their way.
mortimer says
The rector of All Saints Church in Kingtson upon Thames, Rev Jonathan Wilkes, as his punishment should be forced to read ALL 17 books of Robert Spencer, as well as the books of Bat Ye’or, Ibn Warraq, Dr. Andrew Boltom, Dr. Bill Warner, Stephen Coughlin, Patricia Crone, Luxenburg, Karl-Heinz Ohlig, Arthur Jeffrey, Wansborough and Montgomery Watt as well as the tutorials on youtube of Jay Smith and Hamad Abdel Samad.
Once the rector has ABSORBED and INWARDLY DIGESTED this material he may consider himself VERY WELL-INFORMED on Islam. At the moment, Muslims consider him a booby and an easy mark.
gravenimage says
You can contact the church here:
Telephone – 020 8546 5964
Or call Reverend Wilkes directly here:
Telephone – 020 3132 8717
Please be polite.
James says
He should also watch, “mark, learn and inwardly digest” the videos of David Wood, Nabeel Qureshi, and Robert Spencer.
CJ says
How do I explain this mess to my family?
Granddaddy says
This is just more taqiyya. As someone rightly pointed out, Islam would never allow syncretism. So they have no intention of seriously considering any similarities between Muhammad and the Jesus most Christians know. It may, however, draw a few gullible fools to Muhammad. What probably happened is that some Muslim organization contacted some idiot in the church with this idea of a Muhammad/Jesus celebration, and like the idiot he is (whoever he is) he fell for it.
Andrew says
By reading the quotes from the koran in the article it is obvious that Christians and muslims do not believe in the same God.
gravenimage says
So true.
Angel says
One can make the case that the world would be a better place had Muhammad never been born.
Lou says
Quite an easy case to make, come to think of it.
Benedict says
What is going on the Christian Churches, first the Pope does not voice his opinion with regards to Christians being ill-treated, then the other denomination of Christians in the UK go and celebrate evil with good, darkness with light. Don’t these idiots know that Jesus preached love for one another, and the Muhammad preached killing of anyone not agreeing with his concept of religion.
Renee says
Hilarious
gravenimage says
It would be funny if it were not so destructive.
FYI says
“muhammed was given the koran by allah through the angel Gabriel”
Let’s look at that closely:-
allah {who curses the Jews and the Christians koran 9:30} gave..
muhammed{a mass murderer of Jews Abu Dawud 4390 }his “perfect” book the..
koran{“perfect”…well, except for all the theological errors ,the inducements to violate pretty much ALL of God’s commandments and the inexcusable absence of the essential Two Chief Commandments }through the intercession of the..
“angel” gabriel{“the angel gabriel is the enemy of the Jews” bukhari 4:60:3329}
so we have..
allah (who despises Jews and Christians but mainly the Jews)
muhammed(a mass murderer of Jews)
jibreel(an angelic enemy of the Jews)
Can anyone spot 1.the herd of Elephants in the dark fetid room of islam?
2.The weakest link?
jibreel couldn’t possibly be from the God of Moses:he is clearly a fallen angel and it is obvious where he and muhammed and allah come from..
muhammed is the very opposite to Jesus Christ.
muhammed is the very opposite of a True prophet.
Perhaps the “All Saints” church in Kingston upon Thames,with their moral blindness and Christless beliefs should rename their church..
“The Church of st Judas Iscariot of the latter day dhimmiwits”
At least that would be honest.
DFD says
I don’t get it. Why is everybody so surprised?
The UK is Europe’s most islamized country. And has been that for quite a while by now. Muslim immigration continues at a pace, and will continue. Brexit means nothing in that respect, since it doesn’t restrict any immigration from Muslim/Commonwealth countries. It will produce a minute restriction in so far that Muslims from eastern Europe will find it more difficult – but so will Christians from Eastern Europe. And the percentage of eastern European Christians immigrating into the UK was certainly greater than that of eastern European Muslims, easily.
So, why the excitement? Get ready for more – or change your voting pattern/habits!
Janice Disher says
And, muslims will be celebrating the birth of Christ???? Don’t forget Hanukka falls around the same time, do Christians celebrate Hanukka?? This is so messed up.
Kay says
There would be no problem with Christians celebrating Hanukkah.
Frank Anderson says
Considering the victory of religious freedom over government imposed religion that (C)Hanukkah [whatever the correct spelling?] represents, I think you are entirely correct. Without religious freedom we would still be worshiping the current Caesar, whomever that might be. If you don’t know the story it’s well worth the time to learn.
gravenimage says
I know a few Christians who celebrate Hanukkah, usually with Jewish friends.
el Cid 2 says
FYI – I love that ” the Church of Judas Iscariot and the latter day dimwits”.
It is 72 years since the end of WW2. We have lived (mainly) at peace for so long we have become soft and ignorant. Our Universities sell a secular leftist vision. Our people have abandoned our Judeo-Christian heritage. We are aborting our babies. We have abandoned common sense.Our ignorant elite are leading us astray.
Lord – we need you now more than ever.
John S. Obeda says
We ought to often pray for our leaders in government and church and our families; so God encourages us to do.. God help us.
Mark A says
The Anglican Church is finished. It is in its final death throes.
Unfortunately, the same can be said of western European society unless things change dramatically..
CRUSADER says
ADVENT …or… INVENT ??
This seems to be the choice….
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Muslims celebrate birthday of Prophet Muhammad to show happiness that light has came to the world demolishing the darkness of worshiping the Satan Christians Call Holy Spirit and pagans erected wooden image or idols to represent. The birth of Jesus was miraculous to test mankind, not that God has begotten a son. such concept of sonship of God was an imported doctrine from paganism of mithraism of old.
gravenimage says
In other words, Ibrahim itace muhammed is confirming that Muslims hate and despise Christ and Christians, and that the Muslim “Jesus” is nothing like the Jesus of the Gospels.
In fact, the major role of the Muslim “Jesus”–really, “Isa”–is to *kill Christians* in the last days.
More proof of the foolishness of this church.
LeftisruiningCanada says
I’m sure it was Ibrahim not long ago who was condemning Christians for celebrating Christmas, since it is not commanded in thew Bible.
Now he is happy to celebrate the birth of mohammad, which is not only NOT commanded in the koran, but is not even mentioned.
What say you, Ibrahim?
gravenimage says
Interestingly, some Muslims violently condemn other Muslims for celebrating Muhammed’s birthday, since this is not mentioned in the Qur’an.
But this is such a sniveling act of dhimmitude from this church that I am sure most Muslims are applauding it.
Older Canadian says
Idoits.
Don’ t they knoew you can’t get a good war off the ground without division in religion, race and culture.
Or is it complete dominiation they are seeking.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Leftisruining Canada, Those condemning the celebration or commemoration of birthday of Prophet Muhammad are the evil Zionist wahhabists holding perverted and narrow interpretation of Islamic sources. They rejected Qiyas (analogy) legitimised by Prophet Muhammad. prophet muhammad did fasting every Monday to commemorate the day he was born. In maulud the sira or the biography of Prophet Muhammad are discussed and such discussions are celebration of his life.
wahhabism ,which gave birth to Isis and other terrorist groups ,and fascist Zionist are twin sisters of evils.
LeftisruiningCanada says
I was just referring to what you said about a month or so ago, where you were very vocal about how sinful it is to celebrate the birth of the Lord Jesus.
Your reason for this was that it is not commanded to do so.
The koran does not command you to do so either.
If we can draw on analogy as a guide to correct and/or allowable worship, then as Christians we can rightly draw on analogy too:
When Christ Jesus was born, there was clearly celebration: By angels, and by the wisemen who brought gifts.
I can go back and find your previous statements on the subject if you like.
gravenimage says
Ibrahim itace muhammed wrote:
Leftisruining Canada, Those condemning the celebration or commemoration of birthday of Prophet Muhammad are the evil Zionist wahhabists holding perverted and narrow interpretation of Islamic sources. They rejected Qiyas (analogy) legitimised by Prophet Muhammad. prophet muhammad did fasting every Monday to commemorate the day he was born. In maulud the sira or the biography of Prophet Muhammad are discussed and such discussions are celebration of his life.
wahhabism ,which gave birth to Isis and other terrorist groups ,and fascist Zionist are twin sisters of evils.
………………………….
Poor Ibrahim–now he has more of his fellow Muslims to condemn. He’ll have to go out and slaughter all of them soon. Is he lying down on the job?
Linda Rivera says
The London church spits on Jesus Christ.
The church should give its real name: The Apostate Church that HATES Jesus Christ.
In Muslim countries, Christians are regularly attacked and murdered and their churches burnt down.
Thomaspj Poovathinkal says
James says : “One can only be extremely sorry for all those practicising Anglicans who, yet again, have been stabbed in the back by people who are supposedly meant to be Christian clergy, yet allow this. Clergy appear to imagine that they were ordained to be members of the League of the Godless.”
LIKE the Great and Holy JOHN HENRY CARDINAL NEWMAN, ALL GOOD and BELIEVING Anglican, please CROSS OVER to THE MOTHER CHURCH under THE POPE before it is too late.
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LeftisruiningCanada says
It is far better to simply go to Christ Jesus directly.
The Roman church would be almost the last place to go if you want to find anyone taking a strong position against islam.
gravenimage says
There is an awful lot of dhimmitude in the Catholic Church, as well–starting at the top with the current pontiff, I’m afraid.
Thomaspj Poovathinkal says
Please GIVE DELETING FACILITIES. THANKS