Russia has never interfered in US internal affairs and is not planning to do so, Russian President Vladimir Putin said. He added that it is the US that “interferes everywhere” and should expect reciprocal action.
Putin’s hostile declaration is a warning to the U.S. This could spell further trouble for Trump, amid unscrupulous attempts to undermine Trump, have him removed from office, make him appear unfit and mentally unstable.
Russia has opposed Trump’s declaration of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. It has exhibited underhanded attempts to weaken the state of Israel in its partnership with Iran and Syria, even refusing to back efforts to “prevent Iranian-backed fighters from operating in the Syrian Golan Heights close to the Israeli border.” Russia also supported the Iranian deal that saw over 100 billion dollars flow into the coffers of Iran to continue its funding of jihad terror.
Although the Russia-Iran alliance is not without problems, Russia and Iran have been engaged in an “unprecedented cooperation. Never in 500 years has the leadership of the two countries been so close.”
Notice that Putin has not itemized exactly how America is interfering, forgetting that it is the right of the United States to monitor activities within its own country, protect its borders, pull funding from problematic states and also to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of the Israel.
“Putin: US interferes in other countries’ affairs, should expect mirror reply”, RT News, January 11, 2018:
Russia has never interfered in US internal affairs and is not planning to do so, Russian President Vladimir Putin said. He added that it is the US that “interferes everywhere” and should expect reciprocal action.
No country would tolerate foreign interference in its internal affairs, Putin said, as he spoke at a meeting with the Russian media. He also said it is “absolutely wrong” that the US “constantly engages[in those sorts of activities] and makes attempts [to influence other countries’ internal political situations], believing that it is normal.”
Concerning Russia’s relations with the US, Putin said that the situation depends on the US side to a significant extent. Moscow “has been long ready for rapprochement” with Washington, he said, adding that the US has to find enough “will, courage and common sense” to understand that improving relations would serve the interests of both sides. “Until then, relations would only deteriorate further,” the president said.
On Wednesday, the US Democrats released a new report, which blamed Putin for personally leading a “20-year” campaign to undermine democracy around the globe through “disinformation, cyberattacks, military invasions, alleged political assassinations, threats to energy security, election interference, and other subversive tactics.”
Despite a lack of significant proof to back up these claims, the accusations of Russian meddling in the 2016 US presidential elections remain a hot topic in Washington, contributing largely to the worst deterioration in Russian-American relations since the Cold War. The US has imposed several waves of sanctions on Russia, targeting private individuals, companies and whole sectors of economy.
Some Russian diplomatic properties in America were confiscated, while media outlets RT and Sputnik were forced to register as foreign agents. Russia has always firmly denied the allegations of any interference in the US political process, replying to Washington’s aggressive moves with mirror measures.
In late December, Putin said foreign security agencies are “doing all they can to ramp up their level of activity in Russia,”…..
Wellington says
Putin is quite typical of Russia, whether under Czars, First Secretaries and now Putin himself.
Russia never learns. It remains to this day deficient in freedom, xenophobic about its neighbors and even aggressive against all norms of international law (e.g., Russia’s fake annexation of the Crimea, which no Western nation should recognize anymore than Stalin’s annexation of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania back in 1940).
The Russians have great merits, three of them being enormous courage, a truly remarkable visual artistic tradition, and an extraordinary literary heritage. BUT, the Russians are dismal on the matter of freedom and precisely because of this deficiency Russia has been subjected to Czars, First Secretaries and now that ex-KGB officer, one Vladimir Putin.
What a waste of a great people.
Ray Jarman says
Wellington, this is one of the better responses to an article. I totally agree with your assessment of the character of the Russian people and to add one more aspect would be their genuine warmth. When I was in both Moscow and Vladivostok in 2001, I was treated very cordially by those with whom I was working. The great thing about having the opportunity to work within a nation rather than as a tourist where one sees the sites rather than the people, is to have a chance to talk and yes drink with them. As the Japanese believe, one can only be trusted after having been over intoxicated and most inhibitions are lowered and believe me, In Vlad there is not a lot to do in the winter but sit around a large wood stove and have a few drinks. In college I read a an article by George Kennan in which he thought that the Russian physic is derived from Ivan the Terrible and the Tartars effect on their history.
Wellington says
Thank you for your response, Ray Jarman. You know, the Russians are rather like Latin Americans in the respect that often individually they are truly wonderful people, but with respect to running a nation with wisdom, a proper morality, common sense, an understanding of freedom and the rule of law, they really are deficient.
In fact, it’s even all the more sad because while Latin America has achieved in certain areas (e.g., church architecture and literature), the Russians have definitely achieved even more and over a longer period of time. What a damn shame the Russians never developed the importance of freedom that the ancient Greeks did, the English (until very lately), the Dutch (until very lately), the Americans, et al.
Russia’s greatest failing, by far, is its abysmal understanding of liberty. Russia with liberty would be by now so much more than what it is, with Putin illustrating just one more mistake in the long history of Russia, which has never produced a George Washington, a Pericles or a Churchill (Stolypin comes the closest to such men and he was assassinated in 1911).
Yes indeed, a great opportunity lost. Few greater.
gravenimage says
Sadly true.
mortimer says
Wellingtons comments are fair and well taken. The Russians have not shed the SERF mentality. No, Russians, the rulers do NOT know what is good for the common people.
Russia is the world’s largest kleptocracy because the Russian people allow this to happen.
CRUSADER says
Wellington,
Indeed cultural history matters to a people’s development and to a society’s evolution.
Maybe even a bit of DNA…. Americans (and Aussies) sure had different DNA from the Old World from which they departed…to new lands…
As for the Ruskies, well, they never really left to go anywhere else….they’ve become stuck.
christianblood says
CRUSADER posted
(..As for the Ruskies, well, they never really left to go anywhere else….they’ve become stuck..)
Russians do not need to move and invade other, far away peoples and lands and colonize them. God blessed Russia with huge, glorious land and with plenty of natural, cultural and religious heritage that you know nothing about. And because of the return and the huge revival of its holy Christian roots, Russia (The Third Rome) is rising and will indeed rise while the godless, pro-jihadist, materialistic West will soon get what it justly deserves and will become a history by destroying itself with its own hands:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=zNAyzbxDMxc
christianblood says
mortimer
Reading your comments on islamic extremists, I really do admire your in-depth of knowledge on islamic extremists and their evil mentality but concerning Russia, you really don’t know and don’t understand much. You are just regurgitating anti-Russian propaganda your see and hear from the liberal MSM in the West.
Indiana Tom says
Russians do not need to move and invade other, far away peoples and lands and colonize them.
Ummmm….Alaska and Siberia come to mind.
gravenimage says
The Soviet Union brutally oppressed Christians for decades, and even today less than 50% of Russians are Christian. There are very devoted Russian Christians, of course, but the idea that Russia is over all a devout Christian country is a very recent canard.
Peggy says
Wow, just wow.
Russians don’t know democracy, liberty and free press?
Thanks to all that, the west in infested with rot which is eating it from within. Is democracy in play when the big fish has the right to eat all the little fish like the rich and powerful keeping us all dependent on them and grateful for the scraps?
Which system is working for the average person today?
Western? Europe is destroying itself thanks to all that democracy and liberty.
Australia is on it’s way unless we stop it and the US is in danger unless Trump can reverse it.
This is the western system in all it’s glory. Deadly to it’s inhabitants.
It’s not a matter of idealism and glorifying a system which clearly isn’t working, it’s a matter of finding another way.
The west is doomed with their version of democracy. That much is true.
Sorry but I don’t see the west offering their citizens anything better than Russia does.
if you do, please let me know.
gravenimage says
Peggy, your idea that freedom and democracy actually consist of the undermining of freedom and democracy is mistaken.
Andy says
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiylM4MXjEE
Pong says
Russians look like Europeans, but have asian mentality. This is a key to understanding their character.
Russian orthodox church was a negative force slowing development of the russian nation.
I didn’t find them nice or gentle. Rather bad mannered, drunk and obnoxious. Majority, not all of them. During the soviet era, most of the russians had a secret desire to work fot KGB, even without pay. Many people were killed or imprisoned by KGB just because the neighbor, friend or even a relative would anonymously declare them as the enemy of state. It was done willingly and with enthusiasm.
To compair Baltic states and Crimea can be done only by someone without basic understanding of history and questionable morals. Baltic states were independent countries with distinct languages, culture and history. Crimea, on the other hand was annexed by Catherine II as a result of war with turkey and became a headquarters for the governor of Malorussia. It was poorly developed and the land was offered by government free of charge. The russians (including nobility) started to move to Crimea. Beautiful palaces were built all over the place.
After the WWII, tatars were expel from Crimea and became totally russian in every respect.
Nikita Chruchev, in an absolutely illigal gesture gave Crimea to Ukraine. He needed ukranian support in his quest to gain power against “The anti-party group”. It was a political bribery. It was a very low key affair.
Even in 1958 when I visited Crimea one could see some tatar-islamic influence still left, but nothing ukranian. It was Russia like any other places in russia, though the locals already started to complain of forceful ukranisation of crimea.
Return of Crimea back to Russia can be supported by history, law and the will of local population. Opposition to it can be seen as a support of illigal political bribery and an attempt to force on local population something they are totally against.
christianblood says
Pong posted
(..Russian orthodox church was a negative force slowing development of the russian nation..)
So you would prefer the banning of the Orthodoxy and the persecution of millions of Christians and clergy by the godless communists in Russia? Wow! This the ugliest and most ungodly statement in this thread and I am not surprised at this as I can understand the depth and breadth of godlessness and evil materialism in the West!
Listen Pong:
Keep your godless materialism, your so-called freedom & democracy, political-correctness, exceptionalism, your moral corruption and extreme sexual perversions and gender confusion. Please keep all that sickness in your US and Western circles, we don’t need it in Russia or even in the Eastern Europe! Just let Russia enjoy its “backward” Orthodoxy! We don’t need your evil materialistic godlessness in Russia. Enjoy your rainbow colors and set them on the White House or over the skies in your country forever! Watch it below:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/33300524/world-landmarks-lit-up-in-rainbow-colours
christianblood says
Pong
Watch the growth of Christian Orthodoxy in Russia as thousands of Churches and monasteries are being built there every few years.
You won’t understand this, but this the true wealth and the true treasure that Russia has! This is far, far better than everything you have in America and in the Western combined! Watch the 4 minute summary on the video clip below and the narrator is indeed a very good American citizen who converted to Russian Orthodoxy, moved to Russia and married to a Russian. Watch him talk about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=zNAyzbxDMxc
CRUSADER says
Mosques are also being built rapidly in former Soviet districts.
At a frightening pace.
christianblood says
CRUSDAER posted
(..Mosques are also being built rapidly in former Soviet districts..)
Not at all. Absense of Christianity in the West is root problem in the West which really emboldened islamists: It is, ultimately, spiritual warfare in which the West has NO power to deal with. You can’t deal spiritual warfare with secular values like “democracy” etc. Not so in Russia. Watch Iben, a Danish, Catholic journalist who researched this and see he factual findings in the short video clip below:
http://katehon.com/video/main-problem-west-spiritual
gravenimage says
True, CRUSADER. Putin himself opened a mega-Mosque in Moscow itself alongside Erdogan and Abbas:
“Putin Opens Largest Mosque In Moscow”
https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-mosque-putin/27264699.html
And many more Mosques have been erected in the past few years:
“7500 Mosques Have Been Erected In Russia Since Putin Became President”
http://www.interpretermag.com/7500-mosques-have-been-erected-in-russia-since-putin-became-president/
This is a rate of *Mosque a day*. Very disturbing, and a threat to Russia, despite what Christianblood would have you believe.
But he has said before that Islam and even Jihad terrorism is not really a concern in Russia.
I am alarmed about Jihad terror in Russia, even if he is not.
Peggy says
When they were Communist they were seen as Godless and cruel.
Now that the church is back you see them as being held back.
What do they need to do?
Oh, yes, abandon the church like in the west and start worshiping money.
Would that improve their image for you?
St. Manuel II Palaiologos says
You’re assuming freedom is a virtue or a value worth pursuing. Russians have the wisdom to realize how laughable that is.
gravenimage says
This grim post from St. Manuel II Palaiologos unfortunately says it all. *Ugh*.
CRUSADER says
Freedom isn’t something that can be foisted upon people, but just allowed to be experienced. If people reject freedoms, that’s on them, but freedoms should not
be restricted from others to choose one way or another. Freedoms cannot be imposed nor should they be restricted and something instead imposed. Freedom is that butterfly that visits one’s hand, it stays or it leaves, according to its own will and expression.
christianblood says
CRUSADER
Real freedom is NOT the freedom of the flesh to do anything you want and to pervert and confuse your nature, soul and school children. Real freedom is the freedom of the spirit and that is what Russia has in abundance. .
Champ says
“You’re assuming freedom is a virtue or a value worth pursuing.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wow you’ve really defined yourself as hopeless and cowardly with that remark …
Hey I couldn’t image thinking such a wrongheaded thought, let alone stating it out loud.
You’ve served your purpose on this forum. Good-bye.
Champ says
correction: couldn’t imagine.
Pong says
Since when this forum belongs to you to say who is in or who is out?
gravenimage says
Ah, yes–the only freedom is the freedom to reject freedom and deny it to others, as some would have it…
christianblood says
St. Manuel II Palaiologos
You are very right. What is considered faggery and perversion of God’s creation in Russia is seen as “freedom” and a “civilized” life style in the West. Huge chasm!
LeftisruiningCanada says
It seems like there aren’t many distinctions being made in your thinking CB.
The kind of thing you describe may be what some people in the West consider to be freedom, but it’s far from being the majority imho. It is true that this kind of depravity is being pushed by certain quarters, but that doesn’t mean most regular folk consider it to be good.
I can’t help but get the impression that your thinking tends along quite authoritarian lines, perhaps preferring more of an enforced and centralized culture, as opposed to the freer more lassez faire culture of the west where, ideally, government stays out of that area.
This assumption of government regulation upon society, or at least a desire for a more ordered working of it, may explain the lack of appreciation with regards to the diversity of influences and groups working within western society, that pervade your comments.
This is not intended as an attack upon you CB, i’m just trying to understand.
christianblood says
LeftisruiningCanada
(..The kind of thing you describe may be what some people in the West consider to be freedom, but it’s far from being the majority imho..)
It doesn’t matter if they are not the majority my friend, Hollywoodized, islamo-phylic Liberals are running the show in the West and they are shaping the rest of the (sheep-like) Western societies to their likeness and they will eventually destroy them!
Richard says
Really you are way off the mark – first you swallow Soviet propaganda about the Tsars, then you swallow current US propaganda about modern Russia. Remember during the 19th century countries like Germany, Austria etc were still monarchies and only a few rich people had the vote in the UK.
For your information, during the 19th century, Russia was the main player in the liberation of the Christian countries of the Balkans (eg Bulgaria, Serbia etc) and was only prevented from demolishing the Ottoman empire and liberating the Christians of the Middle East by the treacherous behaviour of Britain and France.
Here is Mark Twain on the subject
“It is soothing to the heart to abuse England and France for interposing to save the Ottoman Empire from the destruction it has so richly deserved for a thousand years. It hurts my vanity to see these pagans refuse to eat of food that has been cooked for us; or to eat from a dish we have eaten from; or to drink from a goatskin which we have polluted with our Christian lips, except by filtering the water through a rag which they put over the mouth of it or through a sponge! I never disliked a Chinaman as I do these degraded Turks and Arabs, and when Russia is ready to war with them again, I hope England and France will not find it good breeding or good judgment to interfere.”
from https://www.gutenberg.org/files/3176/3176-h/3176-h.htm#p366
In more recent times the intervention of Russia has been far more effective in reducing the atrocities that ISIS and its bedfellows have been committing against Middle East Christians than the Americans have been.
Given the choice Russia is far preferable to any Islamic country – and by the way – Iran may be an Islamic tyranny but it is actually more tolerant of Christianity than Sunni countries like Saudi Arabia where churches are completely banned or Pakistan where Christians risk a deadly combination of blasphemy laws and mob violence.
gravenimage says
Of course Russia is preferable to Islam–no one here has said it is not. And yes–Russia did help free the Balkans from the Ottoman Empire.
Sadly, though, much of Russia’s legacy has been *much* darker. Who can forget the Iron Curtain and the Gulags?
And a lot of Russian apologists now try to deny that Christians were ever persecuted under the Soviet Union, but this is obviously absurd.
And I see we have another apologist for the savagery of the Islamic Republic of Iran and their persecution of Christians. *Ugh*.
Here is just one story:
“Iran: Pastor “viciously beaten” in prison, told only way out is to deny Christ”
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/06/iran-pastor-viciously-beaten-in-prison-told-only-way-out-is-to-deny-christ
christianblood says
Richard posted
(..For your information, during the 19th century, Russia was the main player in the liberation of the Christian countries of the Balkans (eg Bulgaria, Serbia etc) and was only prevented from demolishing the Ottoman empire and liberating the Christians of the Middle East by the treacherous behavior of Britain and France..)
Very well-said, indeed! Very few people in the West know very little about these profound historical issues, especially in the US. Russia has lost tens of thousands of its soldiers freeing Eastern European Christians from the islamic Ottomans while the treacherous Brits and the French were covertly aiding the Turks. The same Russo-phobic mentality dominates in the West today and this is why: in 40 seconds. Watch:
https://www.facebook.com/thedurancom/videos/516832111981707/
enraged_marcus says
Sadly yes ,many in the west have always viewed Russia as more of threat than Islam .Studying recent history it seems that Russia has helped more than others in saving persecuted Christians under Islamic role.
Russia has many problems but when it comes to Islam ,they have always been smarter than their western counterparts
Ray Jarman says
Not to intrude too much into your debate with Richard but you both have to understand that freeing Christians had little if anything to do with the Russian invasion of the Crimea. The Treaty of Paris 1814 which temporarily ended Napoleon’s reign that led to a balance of power between the on the continent negotiated mainly by Castlereagh and Metternich was the impetus for the English entering the Crimean War. Since the Ottoman Empire was part of the equation and when the Russian Czar, Nickolas I, captured the Crimea, the English and French sought to keep the balance. Religion had nothing to do with the war other than the Ottoman Empire was obviously Muslim. The Russians had no interest in the Christians being freed from the Ottoman yoke, simply conquest.
christianblood says
Ray Jarman
Yes Russia lost tens of thousands of brave soldiers liberating Eastern Orthodox European Christians from the bondage of the Ottoman islam which subjugated them for 500 years! And yes the treacherous Brits and French covertly and overtly backed the Ottoman muslims. You can’t change that fact, it is a documented historical fact. As today, the materialistic, Russophopbic godless West always hated Russia for its Orthodox Christianity, which is a big challenge to the godless, liberal West and its satanic mentality and as of now, the West always aided the islamists whenever they could. Remember, just over a decade ago, Nato bombed Orthodox Serbs and aided islamists there, creating two islamic states (Bosnia & Kosovo) just to hurt Russia! Guess what, Catholics in Bosnia are now leaving Bosnia in the thousands every year because of the persecution in the hands of the NATO-created islamist majority in Bosnia.
christianblood says
enraged_marcus posted
(..Sadly yes ,many in the west have always viewed Russia as more of threat than Islam, many in the west have always viewed Russia as more of threat than Islam .Studying recent history it seems that Russia has helped more than others in saving persecuted Christians under Islamic role.Russia has many problems but when it comes to Islam, they have always been smarter than their western counterparts..)
Very well-said, Marcus!
And the reason why the anti-Christ, Hollywoodized liberal West hate Russia is powerfully and truthfully explained in the 40 second video clip below. Watch it please:
https://www.facebook.com/thedurancom/videos/516832111981707/
gravenimage says
Christianblood wrote:
Russophopbic godless West always hated Russia for its Orthodox Christianity…
…………………
More ridiculous revisionist history. For decades the only place Russians could freely practice Orthodox Christianity–or any other Christianity–was in the West. He hopes we forget how Christianity was persecuted under the Soviet Union.
lebel says
To be fair, Mark Twain once said that the two ugliest things he
could imagine were “Indians and Negroes.”
So not exactly a reference, just another racist American. And yes I am turning increasingly to generalizations; it’s the only way to communicate on jwatch.
WPM says
Mark Twain wrote about” Negroes characters” in his stories as respected human beings with wisdom and knowledge. Did the negro characters fit some of the stereo types of the day yes, were they given human dignity and respect in the stories yes. In the Koran their is no human dignity or respect for unbelievers that fictional story unlike Mark Twains stories has unpleasant religious sanction murder for unbelievers in its final chapters .Christians and Jews in that work of fiction by a illiterate lord war Mohammed hobbled together hundreds of years after his death, says that they Christians and Jews are the worst of creatures. Just another Islamic using a work of fiction written by an American author over a hundred years ago apply it to America foreign policy today. The country of American is not base on Mark Twain books. Islamic terrorism today is base on the Koran ,Islamic major run Saudi Arabia and Iran are countries are being run on the teaching of the Koran. If Mark Twain,s books never were written the world would have lost some literature ,but would have not been much different. If Mohammed never enter this world with his visions and murdering ways it would have been a more peaceful planet for the last 1400 years. It is like if Hitler was never born may be 9 million Jews would not have been killed in Europe in the 1930s and 1940s.The Koran is one big generalization for religious bigotry ,murder rape and mayhem an excuse to act like a savage . A bad work of fiction spun on lies a demented warlord .
LeftisruiningCanada says
On the contrary, perhaps you prefer generalizations because if we get to specifics that don’t fit your view of what ‘racist islamophobes’ should believe, your world won’t make sense?
If we get to specifics, it isn’t so easy for you to make out that us ‘islamophobes’ hate babies, or that “Mr Spencer must be proud”, remember?
gravenimage says
Absolutely, WPM. For instance, Jim is the most decent and dignified character in Huckleberry Finn.
Mark Twain opposed slavery at a time when most of his contemporaries supported it.
lebel, of course, hopes we don’t know this. *Ugh*.
Peggy says
I fear too many people who are decent clear thinking people have swallowed western propaganda against Russia.
Yes, many bad things happened during Soviet Union but also good things. If it wasn’t for Soviet Union Auschwitz wouldn’t have been liberated and Europe might not have had the desired outcome. Americans were vital in the Pacific but Russia was the main player in Europe.
Now that Russians want to throw away their dark Soviet past and embrace the church they are still being portrayed as bad by the west. Why is that? What is going on in Russia now that is so bad that the west isn’t matching?
We have a helluva lot of evil people governing us and a helluva lot of evil people causing all sorts of problems too. So are we going to say that we are so awful and beyond redemption that nobody should respect us?
Let’s not forget how many leftists there are in our countries ruining our good name.
These leftists along with our politicians are producing some of the worst evil around the world and here we are saying how Russia is bad and there is no democracy there.
Do we have the right to point fingers at anyone? Let’s look at ourselves first and clean out the rot of which there is plenty before we think ourselves superior to anyone.
gravenimage says
Unfortunately, Peggy, Russia is still authoritarian, and Putin is a virtual dictator. Of course it is better there now than it was during the appalling Soviet Union, but that is not saying much.
christianblood says
Wellington
You are right. Russian aggression has no limits . Below is the list of countries invaded by Putin’s Russia since WW2:
China 1945-46, Korea 1950-53, China 1950-53, Guatemala 1954, Indonesia 1958, Cuba 1959-60, Guatemala 1960, Belgian Congo 1964,Guatemala 1964, Dominican Republic 1965-6, Peru 1965, Laos 1964-73, Vietnam 1961-73, Cambodia 1969-70, Guatemala 1967-69, Lebanon 1982-84, Grenada 1983-84, Libya 1986, El Salvador 1981-92, Nicaragua 1981-90, Iran 1987-88, Libya 1989, Panama 1989-90, Iraq 1991, Kuwait 1991, Somalia 1992-94, Bosnia 1995, Iran 1998, Sudan 1998, Afghanistan 1998, Yugoslavia – Serbia 1999, Afghanistan 2001, Libya 2011, Syria 2017,
Sarc off!
christianblood says
Correction:
Invaded or Bombed.
Wellington says
America overwhelmingly has intervened to advance freedom or protect it. For instance, but for President Truman and America, South Korea would not be free today and one knows this or should know it. Some 90% of the UN forces which eventually successfully thwarted the takeover of South Korea by the hideous (and still hideous) North Korean regime were American. Many of the other places you cited (e.g., Guatemala) saw America intervene to stop Soviet aggression or influence, i.e,. the spread of Communism. Yet other times it was to thwart naked aggression by one country against another (e.g., Saddam Hussein’s Iraq invading Kuwait).
I will add this too. Most everywhere American soldiers have gone freedom was at least given a chance if not preserved or renewed. Where Russian soldiers have gone tyranny has almost always followed. For instance, as WWII was coming to a close everybody that could tried to get to the American or British forces. No one wanted to be “liberated” by Russian soldiers. In fact, and as narrated by John Toland in his work, The Last Hundred Days, British and American military observers stationed with Russian forces were appalled and disgusted by the fact that Russian soldiers raped every woman they could, whether 8 or 80, but were told to keep quiet because the Russians were our allies. Dwight Eisenhower, Supreme Allied Commander in Europe and later President of the United States, in his memoirs of WWII, Crusade in Europe, mentioned a discussion he had with Marshal Zhukov wherein Eisenhower asked Zhukov what kind of land mine detectors the Russians used and Zhukov replied that none were used. The Russians just sent in their first wave of soldiers, Zhukov replied, many of whom were blown up by land mines, and then sent in subsequent waves of soldiers after the first wave “did their job.” Eisenhower finished this account by noting that any American officer who did that would be court martialed.
Huge difference between the American and Russian militaries. In fact, christianblood, the single greatest guarantor of peace in the world is the American military. Just imagine the last hundred years of man’s history with one difference——-no American military. Think the world would be better off now? Anyone who does is a fool or something even worse.
gravenimage says
*Fine post*, Wellington.
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
*America overwhelmingly has intervened to advance freedom or protect it.”
*Funny post*, Wellington.
It should probably read:
“America overwhelmingly has intervened to advance the freedom and protection of its business interests.”
LeftisruiningCanada says
Good post.
Notice how no one bothered to contest the thesis with fact.
Wellington says
Flavius Claudius Iulianus: I do not share your superficial cynicism. Moreover, it would be naive in the extreme to expect any polity to act only out of altruistic motives. One can have ideals, you know, as America certainly has had from its inception, while at the same time looking out for oneself. Virtually everywhere people are free on this tiny planet, America has played a role in establishing or defending freedom.
For instance, look at the extraordinary rule of General Douglas MacArthur over Japan after WWII. One would be hard pressed to cite an example anytime in history of a more benevolent and enlightened rule of a completely defeated people as were the Japanese as of 1945. Or do you care to be cynical about this too, something to the effect that America treated the defeated Japanese as it did just so it could have more markets to sell to? Perhaps you are this one dimensional. Perhaps you also look at the Marshall Plan this way. Wouldn’t surprise me.
May I suggest you read some Presidential Inaugural Addresses for a sampling of the ideals that have sustained America for centuries now. You could start with JFK’s Inaugural Address of 1961 and don’t overlook certain others, for instance Thomas Jefferson’s First Inaugural Address of 1801 and both of Abraham Lincoln’s, 1861 and 1865 respectively.
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
Wellington, I agree that my reply/post was a bit sharp. I do tend to get “acidic” from time to time. But my words are not in criticism of United States of America. In fact, I hold the idea of the USA in very high esteem. I see the US and its successes as the most recent milestone in the long progress of humanity in creating and maintaining high civilization. (In this list of milestones I see Ancient Egypt, the Ancient Greeks, the early civilizations of the middle east, the Ancient Romans, and on and on.)
As I said, the US is the most recent positive innovation in the progress of human civilization. I marvel at the audacity of this great idea: create a pure meritocracy where people are judged for what really matters: their merit. It’s no wonder that in a matter of about two hundred years, the United States of America has become the world’s foremost economic and cultural power. Justly and fairly reward people for their merit and they will rise to the occasion.
What does irk me is the human weakness of a kind of jingoism that blinds and blinkers. It is a failing to throw a blind eye to the misdeeds committed by those who have the temerity to commit crimes under the cover or/and protection of this great political experiment. If you want to protect the US and ensure its continuance then you must guard yourselves against such adventurers and opportunists. They will sully (and quite possibly bring it down) the name of your great Nation.
I end my comment by quoting part of a previous comment:
‘Many on this site are sharply critical of all those who are willfully ignorant of jihad terror: “if only those people would just open their eyes and ears for just one moment – then they would see.” But they are blinkered and don’t want to know. Are others also blinkered about anything that has the stamp “made in the USA” on it? I’ve known many Americans and some are freely willing admit that America is not perfect. As one of my good American friends once said to me, “if we’re blinkered to the faults of our own Nation then how can we see them, acknowledge them and then rectify them, and bring America even closer to perfection?”’
PS: It would also be nice if more Americans knew a little bit more about their northern neighbors.
gravenimage says
I don’t know anyone who claims Americans are perfect and have never made errors. This is a straw man argument.
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
No it is not a straw man; I’m not diverting attention. I was correct about Putin and I am correct about America and Americans.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
Avenger says
Wellington, has the US ever used their imperial military to halt the destruction or murder of Christians at the hands of Muslims?
This is a sincere question because I think it never has but the Russians have lost thousands defending other nations against Islamic savagery.
You also seem to use Soviet era atrocities that are but a blip in Russian history for examples of Russian cruelty. Not fair.
gravenimage says
Avenger wrote:
Wellington, has the US ever used their imperial military to halt the destruction or murder of Christians at the hands of Muslims?
This is a sincere question because I think it never has
……………………..
One of our first actions as a nation was to take the fight to the Barbary pirates, who had made large swaths of the Mediterranean unsafe for navigation for hundreds of years.
Our actions then finally inspired the British and French to act, and there was free movement on the Mediterranean for the first time *in a thousand years*. This saved thousands of Christians from being kidnapped and sold into slavery.
Avenger says
The US didn’t attack the Barbary pirates because they were Muslims who were savaging the Mediterranean. It was to allow American merchant ships the ability to ply their trade. Sweden was already at war with the Tripoli bandits.
If that’s the best example you have gravenimage then you lose.
In the early 1900’s the mighty American Navy looked on as Christian women and children were being slaughtered on the coast and in the waters of Smyrna by Turkish military and irregulars. This was the time of the Armenian and Greek genocide in Anatolia. The US State Dept feared that if the our Navy intervened, then US businesses might lose their access to cheap Turkish tobacco and oil.
The US and Britain have used murdering Muslims to do their dirty work around the globe. Examples – Indonesia, Pakistan, Turkey, Kurds, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Hussein’s Iraq and now Al-Qaida in Syria.
I can understand Wellingtons dislike of Orthodox Christians because his wife, who is Catholic, emigrated from a Orthodox country where she felt like an outsider. You graven should know better, your in depth knowledge of history should free you of the biases that infect Wellington.
Except for WWI and WWII, US foreign policy has been a disgusting, evil mess.
Peggy says
If we engage in who has done what we are going to be here forever.
If you think that the US has guaranteed peace on earth since WW2 then you are the one who is blind.
Wars have been waged constantly since WW2 and the US has been in the middle of each one. Is this keeping peace or is this making sure that all those little countries know who the master is and act accordingly?
I don’t say this because I hate the west but you seem to have blinkers on when it comes to the west. You really believe that every war waged in the name of “humanitarian intervention and bringing democracy” is just that.
Wrong. These are just excuses for wars and supremacy.
The west is controlled by the globalists and we all know how nice they are.
Don’t be blinded because you are part of the west. You have to be able to see the truth in order to bring about a better world.
You know the saying, when you point a finger at someone you have four others pointing back at you.
gravenimage says
Avenger wrote:
The US didn’t attack the Barbary pirates because they were Muslims who were savaging the Mediterranean. It was to allow American merchant ships the ability to ply their trade. Sweden was already at war with the Tripoli bandits.
…………………………
With all respect, Avenger, these are not separate issues. The Barbary pirates were enslaving Infidel passengers and crew of any nation.
More:
If that’s the best example you have gravenimage then you lose.
…………………………
Wait–our actions leading to the freeing of the Mediterranean for the first time in over a thousand years is–somehow–a *loss*? How does that work? It was, in fact, a great thing for freedom for the whole world.
Sorry that you disagree.
More:
In the early 1900’s the mighty American Navy looked on as Christian women and children were being slaughtered on the coast and in the waters of Smyrna by Turkish military and irregulars. This was the time of the Armenian and Greek genocide in Anatolia. The US State Dept feared that if the our Navy intervened, then US businesses might lose their access to cheap Turkish tobacco and oil.
…………………………
There is no doubt the US could have done more–Europe could have done more, and Russia could have done more, as well.
But virtually all those saved from Smyrna were saved due to the efforts of an American:
“The American who saved 250,000 from death during the Armenian genocide”
https://www.pri.org/stories/2015-04-24/american-who-saved-250000-death-during-armenian-genocide
More:
The US and Britain have used murdering Muslims to do their dirty work around the globe. Examples – Indonesia, Pakistan, Turkey, Kurds, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Hussein’s Iraq and now Al-Qaida in Syria.
…………………………
Ah–we’ve seen this rot before–the claim that the United States invented Jihad and created Al-Qaida and ISIS. What ludicrous claptrap.
More:
I can understand Wellingtons dislike of Orthodox Christians because his wife, who is Catholic, emigrated from a Orthodox country where she felt like an outsider.
…………………………
I have never heard Wellington say that he dislikes Orthodox Christians–or any Christians. I have also been reading here for twelve years now, and have never heard this about his wife. Not saying it might not be the case, but odd that I would have missed that.
And I have never seen Wellington biased–except his “bias” for freedom and decency. He certainly would not be swayed by a single anecdotal experience.
What has he ever said that leads you to believe that he dislikes Orthodox Christians? I must have missed that, as well.
More:
You graven should know better, your in depth knowledge of history should free you of the biases that infect Wellington.
…………………………
Well, thank you for your kind words, Avenger.
Wellington actually knows a great deal about history, himself–he taught history at the university level for many years. I’m not sure what you think he got wrong.
For myself, I have no dislike of Orthodox Christians or Orthodox Christianity at all. In fact, I have a great deal of respect for Orthodox Christians who persevered through the brutal Soviet years when they were so persecuted. Before that, many Orthodox and other Christians held firm for centuries in the face of the most horrifying Muslim persecution in Eastern Europe and Turkey.
I was actually involved with a group that helped persecuted religious Jews and Christians flee the Soviet Union for Israel back in the 1970s and ’80s–setting up sponsors and the like. Most of these Christians were Orthodox.
More:
Except for WWI and WWII, US foreign policy has been a disgusting, evil mess.
…………………………
Certainly, Americans have made mistakes.
But I have to disagree with you on many points. I do not believe the Revolutionary War was disgusting or evil. I think they were right, and the creation of the United States led to the freest and most democratic nation in history. I do not consider that disgusting or evil.
The Civil War was certainly tragic–but the abolition of slavery was a very important thing. I do not consider that to be either disgusting or evil.
As for the Korean War, there is no doubt that the resolution of that conflict–to the extent that there was a resolution–was imperfect.
But there over 51 million South Koreans living in freedom instead of suffering under Communism as are their North Korean brethren. I have to admit I consider that a good thing, neither disgusting or evil.
You can, of course, choose to disagree.
christianblood says
Wellington posted
(..Russia never learns. It remains to this day deficient in freedom, xenophobic..)
Please don’t impose your godless, liberal, postmodernist value system on Russia!
What you consider “freedom” in the West is considered perversion and faggery
in Russia. Sorry NO “gender neutral” washrooms in Russian schools and thank God for that! Enjoy your freedoms! This is what really, really matters to Russians these days. Please watch it on the 25 minute video below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYAUP6jRKrk
christianblood says
Wellington
A picture is worth of a thousand words! Watch the two pictures below and see the two different things most valued in Russia and in the US:
1. America, click on the link below to see:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/33300524/world-landmarks-lit-up-in-rainbow-colours
2. Russia, click on the link below to see:
https://www.rt.com/politics/319490-chastity-faith-and-patriotism-/
Big difference isn’t it?
Is there any sense of rightness or wrongness in the Western world these days? Could both be right?
gravenimage says
Christianblood has said before that he considers gay parades much more objectionable than Muslims mass slaughtering people.
christianblood says
gravenimage
gravenimage is using lies and false accusations to discredit me and this is a classical liberal and islamist tactics! The truth is I never said such a thing!
Wellington says
Christianblood: I am for freedom accompanied by self-restraint and common sense. Of course, freedom often devolves into license which is something entirely different but you seem unable to tell the difference between these two and this helps account in part for your very negative view of 1) America, 2) the West, and 3) freedom.
What made America great above all else is freedom. But freedom can be abused and, sadly today, there are many who do abuse it. You see this abuse and think it is due to freedom. No it is not. It is due to the misuse of freedom. Huge difference.
As for Russia, if only it had developed free institutions as did the Ancient Greeks, the English, the Dutch, the Americans, et al., it could have become so much greater than it is. Also, freedom aside, Russia has a sordid record going the whole way back into the medieval era, what with many czars as absolute and terrifying rulers (e.g., Ivan IV), the mess which was the Time of the Troubles, massive enslavement of the Russian people by way of serfdom, a terrifying secret police under both the czars and Soviets and, of course, the pathological, genocidal phenomenon which occurred from 1917 onwards under first Lenin, then Stalin and continued under future First Secretaries whereby dissidents like Solzhenitsyn, Pasternak, etc. were placed under house arrest, or exiled, or placed in psychiatric wards, or simply, a la Lenin and Stalin, killed.
People like you, christianblood, serve as a perfect example of why people who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. Done here.
LeftisruiningCanada says
” I am for freedom accompanied by self-restraint and common sense. Of course, freedom often devolves into license which is something entirely different but you seem unable to tell the difference between these two and this helps account in part for your very negative view of 1) America, 2) the West, and 3) freedom.
What made America great above all else is freedom. But freedom can be abused and, sadly today, there are many who do abuse it. You see this abuse and think it is due to freedom. No it is not. It is due to the misuse of freedom. Huge difference.”
+1
I was going to try and say that. Good job.
gravenimage says
I wrote:
Christianblood has said before that he considers gay parades much more objectionable than Muslims mass slaughtering people.
Christianblood wrote:
gravenimage
gravenimage is using lies and false accusations to discredit me and this is a classical liberal and islamist tactics! The truth is I never said such a thing!
…………………………
Christianblood has indeed said that Western values–which he entirely characterizes as the allowing of gay parades and unisex bathrooms–represent far more of a threat to Russia than does Jihad terror. He has, in fact, said this numerous times.
I’m not sure why he would deny this now.
christianblood says
gravenimage
Relax Graven, Russia is not as bad as you think. In fact, it is offering “gays” one ticket to California so that they can enjoy their “freedom” as perverts there.This offer was seriously made a few days ago. Please read it on the link below:
http://russia-insider.com/en/russian-christian-tv-offers-sodomites-1-way-ticket-california-many-eagerly-apply-video/ri22132
gravenimage says
Good posts, Wellington and LeftisruiningCanada.
gravenimage says
Christianblood pretending that the only meaning of freedom is to hold gay parades is, of course, ludicrous.
TomD says
Christianblood wrote “Please don’t impose your godless, liberal, postmodernist value system on Russia!”
I’m going to lay out something. You might like this, or not, but here goes:
The American “godless, liberal, postmodernist value system”, such that it is, is the direct result of Soviet propaganda and enticements during the Cold War. Aside from the immorality of Americans and other westerners who succumbed to the enticements, it is Russia’s fault that this happened.
So I would suggest that Russia has a responsibility to fix it.
I can assure you that many Americans have commented, publicly and privately, on how the two countries have swapped places on the “godlessness” issue. We are happy for Russia, and not so happy here, and worry about what the future holds.
Russians need to owe up to their responsibility in this matter. How?
1) Come clean on the Soviet ugliness. Russia is about 75% of the way there, just finish the job!
2) Be a little less adversarial. We will always be competitors, but Americans understand competition.
3) Think seriously about Orthodox missions in America. Have Patriarch Kirill visit America, and tell Americans he loves them as much as Patriarch Tikhon did – but only if he means it! Have him express regret about Russia spreading its “godless, liberal, postmodernist value system” even to America. I mean, Metropolitan Hilarion Alfeyev came very close to doing so in London just four months ago. Just complete the job!
Seriously, get to work! You helped break it, now help fix it!
christianblood says
TomD posted
(..The American “godless, liberal, postmodernist value system”, such that it is, is the direct result of Soviet propaganda and enticements during the Cold War. Aside from the immorality of Americans and other westerners who succumbed to the enticements, it is Russia’s fault that this happened..)
Communism was not invented in Russia, it was exported from Germany and was imposed on Russia. Have you ever heard Karl Marx? As for the ‘postmodernist value system’ in the US, it is also sourced in Germany. Have ever heard the “Frankfurt School”? Check it out!
LeftisruiningCanada says
Where it was ‘invented’ is irrelevant. USSR once infected became the largest vector of the disease. We might equally claim that the “godless, liberal, postmodernist value system” wasn’t ‘invented in the USA and has been imposed on us, but you wouldn’t go for that would you.
It wouldn’t fit you world where American must be the worst thing in the history of the world ever. Just keep i mind that, however many problems we have over here, at least it’s not been so bad that we made gulags.
TomD says
Christianblood, your objection is a non sequitur. Everyone knows that Marxism originated in Germany. But it was not Germany that gained enough Marxist adherents to take over an entire country and to use its resources to advance it.
It was Russia.
It was Russia that proclaimed itself to be a new and better society that deserved emulation. Much of American political history in the 20th century was actually a list of seesaw ideological battles between Americans who wanted in some way to emulate Russia and those who didn’t.
It was Russia that was primarily responsible for the start of the Cold War
It was Russia who was at least 50% responsible for the nuclear arms race, which led some Western elites to revoke their early Cold War opposition to Marxism and to excuse the Communist crimes against the Russian and other Soviet peoples.
As an aside, some of those elites were in France, which is also a birthplace of postmodernism. Frankly, I don’t know of a single strain of postmodernism that was not in some way influenced by Russia.
It’s been commented by some here that you have religious objections to gay parades. Your should recall that the first gay parade in history was in St. Petersburg, Russia, in 1919, around the same time as an ‘anti-shame’ nudist parade. The Russian Marxist government in its early years created sexual communes that would have been the envy of some Californians today. Russia was quite supportive of a proto-sexual revolution until Stalin consolidated power and saw that a libertine culture might inhibit militarism.
Go back and read my first comment. Can’t you see I just handed you an opportunity? What could be better for you and me than for the Russian Orthodox Church to expand its influence around the world? If it did it would help reduce conflict. There are Americans today who believed that Russia was in some ways a better place than America before the USSR collapsed, and now they cannot forgive Russia for today showing that Russia back then deceived them.
Sargeant KoranFlusher says
What ? …Has Jihad Watch turned into a ridiculous outlet for the Globalist Neocon agenda or is it just the author of this ignorant article?
It is the USA who is the biggest threat to the world at the moment not Russia. The US has been poking Russia for 25 years. Russia Feed shreds the recent report the author of this mentions in her parrotic ramble.
http://russiafeed.com/democrat-senators-racist-report-russia/
christianblood says
(..What ? …Has Jihad Watch turned into a ridiculous outlet for the Globalist Neocon agenda or is it just the author of this ignorant article?
It is the USA who is the biggest threat to the world at the moment not Russia. The US has been poking Russia for 25 years. Russia Feed shreds the recent report the author of this mentions in her parrotic ramble..)
Excellently put, Sargeant! Respect to you, brother!
LeftisruiningCanada says
Like your name Sargeant KoranFlusher 🙂
gravenimage says
Sargeant KoranFlusher wrote:
It is the USA who is the biggest threat to the world at the moment not Russia.
…………………………
I think this silly poster needs a new username…
cjk says
The Crimean annexation is ABSOLUTELY nothing like the annexation of The Baltic States. That is an unfair comparison.
Aaron says
Well, Putin is opposing the global forces of liberalism. The same errors that were exported to the U.S. from the Soviet Union that attempt to undermine the family and the Church are ironically still threatening Russia but this time from the West. Putin might be quite Russian in his activities to shore up a Church centric democracy in Russia, but he is also quite right in his charges against the U.S. I am quite sure that Russia would rather have the U.S. as an international partner rather than Iran, but the sad truth is the U.S. agenda has been predicated upon an anti-Christain Liberalist ideology.
Between Russia and the U.S., only one of the two countries is interested in promoting the Church and family as the bedrock of their constitutional government. The only one is hell-bent on destroying it–and where there is no Church there is no separation of Church and State, there is only the return to the state religion (albeit in this case, it might be a secular political religion).
christianblood says
Aaron posted
(..Well, Putin is opposing the global forces of liberalism. The same errors that were exported to the U.S. from the Soviet Union that attempt to undermine the family and the Church are ironically still threatening Russia but this time from the West. Putin might be quite Russian in his activities to shore up a Church centric democracy in Russia, but he is also quite right in his charges against the U.S. I am quite sure that Russia would rather have the U.S. as an international partner rather than Iran, but the sad truth is the U.S. agenda has been predicated upon an anti-Christain Liberalist ideology.
Between Russia and the U.S., only one of the two countries is interested in promoting the Church and family as the bedrock of their constitutional government. The only one is hell-bent on destroying it–and where there is no Church there is no separation of Church and State, there is only the return to the state religion (albeit in this case, it might be a secular political religion..).
Thank You Aaron! You are absolutely, 100% right!
I wish what you and few others see would be visible to rest of the society in the US and in the EU. The problem is that most of these people, including (probably) the majority of the commenters here are themselves
atheistic or agnostic, spineless liberals who CANNOT see the deeper spiritual and moral forces that are working behind the scenes in all of these scenarios.
LeftisruiningCanada says
” the deeper spiritual and moral forces that are working behind the scenes in all of these scenarios”
Many here are quite willing and able to see spiritual forces working in high places CB. But the point is that these forces are NOT inherent to the West in general. They have been given freer reign because of certain trends in thought, ands perhaps even direct encouragement, but they are no more a part of what makes the West, the West, than anywhere else.
You have said that you view Communism being ‘imposed’ on Russia, and that it is not something that defines Russia. Perhaps. But you are making the same mistake regarding the West as you have accused us of making regarding Russia and Communism – you are not making the distinction in our case as you demand we make in Russias.
gravenimage says
Aaron wrote:
Well, Putin is opposing the global forces of liberalism
……………………..
Alas, Putin has been furthering the cause of Islam in many regards. He opened a meg-Mosque–the largest in Europe–in Moscow along with Erdogan and Abbas, is enabling a nuclear Iran, and has allowed Chechnya to become a Shari’ah state. Very disturbing.
Peggy says
Be as it may but at the end of the day terrorism in Europe is far greater than in Russia.
Putin has absolute loyalty from the Chechens now.
What Putin is doing seems to work for Russia while what EU is doing seems to destroy Europe.
Yes, there was an attempted terrorist act and an actual terrorist act recently but nothing on the scale that Europe is experiencing.
It really upsets me to see any more mosques being built anywhere but maybe that’s the price.
Somehow Putin seems to be keeping Muslims under control and considering how many Muslims are part of Russia is impressive. Naturally nothing is perfect but at the moment at least is at acceptable level.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNAo-SlugrM
Avenger says
Muslims have infested the borders of Russia for centuries and yet they have little influence culturally or politically on Russia.
Contrast this to Britain, an island nation surrounded by other Western type countries whose native people and culture is withering from recent Muslim immigration.
Britain now has 13,000 mosques, Russia has 7,000.
Western Europe will collapse like a house of cards.
gravenimage says
Peggy wrote:
Be as it may but at the end of the day terrorism in Europe is far greater than in Russia.
………………………
Hi, Peggy. Besides the horror of Beslan, there have been a series of terrible Jihad terror attacks in the Russian capitol itself, including attacks on the subway, the opera, and the airport. I do not consider these minor things. There have also been attacks in St. Petersburg and Volgograd.
More:
Putin has absolute loyalty from the Chechens now.
………………………
Peggy, right now Chechnya is a Shari’ah state, murdering gay people and allowing “Honor Killings”. I do *not* believe that this is loyalty to Russian values–it is loyalty to Islam.
Kadyrov is superficially loyal to Putin–but mostly because Putin has allowed him to create a Shari’ah state on Russian soil.
More:
What Putin is doing seems to work for Russia while what EU is doing seems to destroy Europe.
………………………
Peggy, I’m afraid I do not consider a string of Jihad terror attacks to be “working” for Russia.
Moreover, Russia is also inviting in more Muslims, while chiding the West for not doing so:
“West should learn from Russia to accept Muslim refugees – Patriarch Kirill”
http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=12354
It think it is suicidal for *any* Infidels to invite in more Muslims.
More:
Yes, there was an attempted terrorist act and an actual terrorist act recently but nothing on the scale that Europe is experiencing.
It really upsets me to see any more mosques being built anywhere but maybe that’s the price.
………………………
I’m afraid there have been many more Jihad terror plots–and successful Jihad terror attacks–in Russia than you might think.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/04/03/russia-plagued-by-islamic-terror-attacks.html
And you appear to believe that building Mosques appeases Muslims–but it does not. Muslims use Mosques to preach more violent Jihad, and thousands of Mosques have been built in Russia in the past few years.
More:
Somehow Putin seems to be keeping Muslims under control and considering how many Muslims are part of Russia is impressive. Naturally nothing is perfect but at the moment at least is at acceptable level.
………………………
Peggy–with all respect–I don’t believe that hundreds of Russians dying in recent Jihad terror attacks is “acceptable”–nor that this is under control.
I hate to see Jihad terror in the West, in Russia, or in any other part of the world.
gravenimage says
Avenger wrote:
Muslims have infested the borders of Russia for centuries and yet they have little influence culturally or politically on Russia.
Contrast this to Britain, an island nation surrounded by other Western type countries whose native people and culture is withering from recent Muslim immigration.
Britain now has 13,000 mosques, Russia has 7,000.
Western Europe will collapse like a house of cards.
…………………….
Avenger, there has been an orgy of Mosque building in Russia in the past few years:
“7500 Mosques Have Been Erected In Russia Since Putin Became President”
http://www.interpretermag.com/7500-mosques-have-been-erected-in-russia-since-putin-became-president/
This is *more than one a day*. The final figure, needless to say, must be more than 7,000.
And the number for Mosques in Britain appears to be an estimated 1,750 mosques–or just a little over one tenth of the numbers you claim.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-35514840
Now, Avenger, I don’t want to see Mosques built *anywhere* in Dar-al-Harb. This is always suicidal madness, and a serious threat to the native Infidels.
And I know you look forward to the destruction of Western Europe, but this would not be a good thing for Russia, either, despite what you night think.
For myself, I don’t wand to see *any* Infidel lands fall to Islam.
Avenger says
Thanks for your response GI.
I went to Wikipedia for those numbers and I truly find your numbers hard to believe. If your count includes Russian client states and past Soviet era annexations then those numbers might be plausible.
They may be counting groups of Muslim men facing Mecca on Fridays at local Starbucks! sarc
I love Western cultural, it would be devastating to me if any West European nation went Sharia but nations like Germany, Sweden, England etc are slipping fast. I’m middle aged and I think I will see this transition happen in my lifetime.
gravenimage says
Avenger, Islam is a threat *anywhere* in Dar-al-Harb.
J D S says
Hmmmmm Maybe time for Putin to disappear…but no matter if he did
he would probably be replaced by like kind. Who is next in line if “the people” can’t take over?
elee says
Poor Vladimir just can’t buy a reliable lackey……and he probably can’t make this one disappear either.
Manos says
Trump is on the way out. Who will be next president, this time another black president “Oprah Winfrey ”
Holywood and The Soros network has taken over The USA political scene so get used to become a gay left wing political correctness country.
gravenimage says
More calls for surrender…
Peggy says
Hopefully this is only a warning and not a call for surrender.
I don’t think that Oprah will run in the next presidential election. Like Trump said, he knows her very well.
I am seeing positive signs in the US. More people are prepared to speak up and more people are prepared to back those people.
Keep the momentum going.
gravenimage says
Thank you, Peggy–I hope we will.
Prabh108 says
Hussein Obama (son of a moslem is always a moslem) has left North America in shambles –
oprah (her name translates as “strange” in Panjabi will finish the job of the ruination of the New World. Anybody but Oprah.
I suggest America’s sweetheart Hindu-American Julia Roberts – what a powerful statement against jihadists and friends of jihadists. Jihad equals slavery.
However, true Hindu women rarely enter politics, except during wartime. (or through nepotism)
christianblood says
Manos
(..Holywood and The Soros network has taken over The USA political scene so get used to become a gay left wing political correctness country..)
You are right. These groups, along with their islamist allies are running the show in US and the West and they are trying to export that moral curse to Russia all in the name of “freedom”, “democracy” and “human rights”. Sorry, it won’t happen!
LeftisruiningCanada says
Who’s behind it all though?
mummymovie says
Weird shit, isn’t it?
Sounding religious, I can only think of one culprit who would be capable of something as enormous as bringing about the end of western civilization in a matter of a few years.
How could we have known we would be counter-hijra/counter jihadis are the last bastion of sanity and reasonable thought?
Things are getting scary as hell.
Georg says
Love getting lectured about interfering in other countries’ affairs by an oligarchical dictator who just annexed a European territory in the 21st century.
St. Manuel II Palaiologos says
Crimea has been Russian land for centuries. So has Ukraine.
Georg says
“has been”
Neither is now.
Richard says
Not true. Crimea was and is majority Russian speaking. It was liberated by the Russians from the Islamic Khanate (arguably the most appalling slave trading regime in history) in the 18th century.
The attachment to Ukraine was an act of partiality by the Ukrainian Kruschev dressed up as administrative convenience.
IN reality “Ukraine” which means “Borderlands” is a patchwork of small regions – many of which are Russian. Its current troubles are the direct result of the west supporting what it thought were anti-communist factions that were in fact anti-Russian. The west should never have taken sides in this dispute.
gravenimage says
Wait–so Richard thinks that being anti-Communist is anti-Russian? Good grief. I think a lot of Russians are glad that the Soviet Union is a thing of the past.
christianblood says
Richard posted
(..IN reality “Ukraine” which means “Borderlands” is a patchwork of small regions – many of which are Russian. Its current troubles are the direct result of the west supporting what it thought were anti-communist factions that were in fact anti-Russian. The west should never have taken sides in this dispute..)
I hope our friends here will turn away from all the “Deep State” globalist propaganda they are being fed by MSM and learn some of the true historical facts you trying to share with them, Richard!
gravenimage says
Of course, Russia believes it can still oppress any country once under its domination, and Christianblood agrees.
Peggy says
Do you think the way it is now is right?
Sometimes we have to right the wrong.
christianblood says
(..Crimea has been Russian land for centuries. So has Ukraine..)
True!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQgdRmCZRPs
christianblood says
The truth about Ukraine is a must-watch for Westerners
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVdvp188rk4
gravenimage says
Oliver Stone is an America-hating loon. Not sure I would cite him.
TomD says
“Crimea has been Russian land for centuries”
Then Gorbachev should have transferred the Crimea back to Russia before the USSR dissolved.
Many of these problems are due to a lack of Russian or Soviet foresight. For example, most Western support for the dissolution of the USSR came from the need to reverse the annexation of the Baltic republics. If Stalin had treated them like Poland or Romania things might have turned out very differently.
“So has Ukraine”
A majority of Ukrainians see it differently.
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
Let the Russian speaking Ukrainians of Donbass tell you their story:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-Jme77Dfc4
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
Hey JW readers, if you want to learn more about what Ukrainian nationalism is all about then do a browser search with this string: “Oleh Tyahnybok & John McCain” and select for images.
Oleh Tyahnybok is the leader of the Neo-Nazi Ukrainian party Svoboda. He is a devoted follower of Stepan Bandera (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera) a now deceased Nazi collaborator.
christianblood says
Flavius Claudius Iulianus
Thanks for the great video!
gravenimage says
Flavius Claudius Iulianus, the idea that if the Ukraine does not want to be brutally domintated by Russia that it is “Nazi” is ridiculous.
gravenimage says
+1
christianblood says
gravenimage posted
(..Of course, Russia believes it can still oppress any country once under its domination, and Christianblood agrees..)
Graven, Over a period of approximately 300 years, Russia was invaded by foreign armies on five occasions – and all five invasions came through Russian’s western borders. In 1605, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth invaded; in 1708, Sweden invaded; in 1812, France invaded; in 1918, Imperial Germany invaded; and in 1941, Nazi Germany invaded.
Russians don’t give it a dime for the so-called “free west” and its godless, materialistic, pro-islamic ideologies! Russians just want to be safe in their country and keep their own culture, faith and way of life. Russians don’t want to see another destructive Western invasion and war of aggression that will come from the West. Remember, Russia was invaded by marauding Western aggressor armies over a period of approximately 300 years, Those destructive, marauding Western armies invaded Russia on five occasions through Russian’s western borders. In 1605, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth invaded; in 1708, Sweden invaded; in 1812, France invaded; in 1918, Imperial Germany invaded; and in 1941, Nazi Germany invaded. And now, once again, Western aggressors who hate Russia are gathering their armies on the Russia’s Western borders to invade and destroy Russia. I know, all Americans and almost all of the people in the West don’t even know this fact but for Russia this is a question of national survival. Please read Dr. Marcus’s piece on this on the link below:
http://theduran.com/action-reaction-russia-responding-growing-threats-west-says-dr- amarcus-papadopoulos/
LeftisruiningCanada says
Can;t get the link to work CB, but i have to say that reading around the articles and the comments particularly, there is wickedly anti US vibe going on there. Sounds like a bunch of old commies whinging. It’s pretty unpleasant imho.
christianblood says
LeftisruiningCanada
Facts are unpleasant, that is right, But they are far better and liberating than lies! Some of the things you are reading, can indeed be shocking to you because you never saw them before, but these are the facts. Please watch as the the foremost, American scholar on Russia, Prof. Steven Cohen explains this candidly in a Larry King show:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv2f6ZZmx4A&list=PLVQnn8i1SIpGra0tYdU9mW1Ndpge39kSR&index=5
christianblood says
LeftisruiningCanada
Oops! Please see the video link below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv2f6ZZmx4A&list=PLVQnn8i1SIpGra0tYdU9mW1Ndpge39kSR&index=5
christianblood says
LeftisruiningCanada
Sorry, those videos are not working. Try to put the address on your server and see if it works!
LeftisruiningCanada says
Wasn’t referring to the ‘facts’ CB, just the vicious tone and communist whinging. If you think some news about something bad an American did is going to shock me, you’re wrong. Believe it or not, sometimes people do bad things, even Canadians!
What does shock me is the utterly black and white thinking i’m seeing in those who engage in the fashionable leftist pastime of USA bashing.
But, when it comes down to it, the West, particularly the USA, has far freer and more admirable foundations than anywhere else in the world. The problems you see are not with those foundations. Wellington explained this above, but you ignored him.
gravenimage says
Wait–so Christianblood is saying that Russia has to dominate all of eastern Europe because the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth invaded back in 1605? Okaaaaay…
Avenger says
Excellent posts christianblood and others! Thank you for exposing the phony anti jihadis that abound on this website. They are more concerned with castrating Russia than going on the offensive against murdering Muslims.
The West will need help from Russia, India and China to put the final stake in the heart of Islam. There will be many problems between us and these nations but sound diplomacy and the focus on the final goal of Muslim neutralization should be paramount.
Avenger says
I retract my stupid statement “exposing the phony anti jihadis…”
We are all here with one purpose and the way we triangulate to get there may cause cause some friction between us.
Sorry.
christianblood says
Georg posted
(..Love getting lectured about interfering in other countries’ affairs by an oligarchical dictator who just annexed a European territory in the 21st century..)
You are right, Georg! Below is a list of countries bombed or invaded by Putin’s Russia since WW2: Sarc off!
China 1945-46, Korea 1950-53, China 1950-53, Guatemala 1954, Indonesia 1958, Cuba 1959-60, Guatemala 1960, Belgian Congo 1964,Guatemala 1964, Dominican Republic 1965-6, Peru 1965, Laos 1964-73, Vietnam 1961-73, Cambodia 1969-70, Guatemala 1967-69, Lebanon 1982-84, Grenada 1983-84, Libya 1986, El Salvador 1981-92, Nicaragua 1981-90, Iran 1987-88, Libya 1989, Panama 1989-90, Iraq 1991, Kuwait 1991, Somalia 1992-94, Bosnia 1995, Iran 1998, Sudan 1998, Afghanistan 1998, Yugoslavia – Serbia 1999, Afghanistan 2001, Libya 2011, Syria 2017,
Georg says
You can be Putin-loving creeps all you like. Polling of Ukraine shows that, on balance, they prefer Europe and even NATO. I will be siding with Europe and Ukrainians’ right to self-determination. I’d sure as hell hope neither of you is living in the West, enjoying the associated freedoms, prosperity and safety while denying others their pursuit thereof.
Wellington says
You stated this same set of “facts” twice, christianblood, first in your 5:34 P.M. post of yesterday and again in this 6:39 P.M. post here of yours. I responded to your “facts” in my 9:53 P.M. post but I noticed you didn’t bother replying to this response of mine. What’s the matter, can’t adequately deal with the statements I made? Go ahead, try and refute them. Give it a shot.
And unlike you I won’t state the same comment twice, as though repeating something in and of itself makes it the more true. It doesn’t.
And I’ll leave you with this comment by a Canadian, Mark Steyn, who said that a world without America would be a world that would be subject to the tyrants of the earth. I don’t think you get this. I don’t think you ever will.
christianblood says
Wellington posted
(..America overwhelmingly has intervened to advance freedom or protect it..) An excerpt of your 5:53 comment.
Many millions of people, most of whom civilians were mass-murdered by the American criminal, supremacist invasions and bombings of those small and defenseless countries that I listed above and you are calling these mass-murdering war crimes as
“..advancing freedom and protecting it..”!!!
What freedom? Who gave America the right to forcefully impose its own short-minded and very depraved worldview on others through mass-murder, bombings and illegal invasions? This is truly unbelievable, full of arrogance, with complete moral depravity that you are even writing about this and defending it at ease! Would you or other Americans be happy if a more powerful foreign power invades your country, bombs and mass-murder American civilians, killing millions in order to impose its own view points??? Would that be okay?
LeftisruiningCanada says
I don’t know, let’s ask the Georgians.
Wellington says
Christianblood: I have concluded you are so distorted in your view of history and with your hatred of America and the West, that, for all intents and purposes, it is futile arguing with someone as ignorant as you.
But, let me give this example to refute your idiotic and vile assessments: After WWII, Western Europe was free because it was protected by America and NATO. By contrast, Eastern Europe was enslaved by the USSR and the Warsaw Pact. Oh yeah, a fine example of Russia on the right side of history again (sarc/off).
Deal with this specific matter I have raised. And while you’re at it, why not address why so many Eastern European nations, among them Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Ukraine, even Georgia, want nothing to do with Russia and desire greatly to be a part of NATO? Yeah, what free polity or a polity striving towards freedom wants to be aligned with Russia?
Oh yeah, your turn. And if you don’t specifically address why a country like Poland wants to be in NATO, then I will know (yet again) what a deceiver you are. And while you’re at it, please address as well the reason why South Koreans today live in a free nation, which they would not BUT FOR America. Oh yeah, address this too. But I know you won’t, rank apologist for all things Russia as you are and not even grasping that those in the West, for instance myself and gravenimage, are only too ready to fault America and the West for its errors but, by contrast, you can’t manage to say ANYTHING negative about Russia———how pathetic and how it speaks volumes about yourself.
You know, all Russia all the time is as tedious as all Islam all the time. Get this? No, of course you don’t.
christianblood says
Wellington posted
(..America overwhelmingly has intervened to advance freedom or protect it..) An excerpt of your 5:53 comment!
Wellington: You believe it is great for America to invade and bomb and kill millions as it did in all the small and defenseless countries that I mentioned above and you reasoned that was to “advance freedom and protect”. What?
I asked you, Who gave America the right to forcefully impose its own short-minded and very depraved worldview on other nations through mass-murder, bombings and illegal invasions?
How is that different from ISIS? ISIS who murders tens of thousands to impose its own islamic supremacism on others? America invades and bombs all these small countries killing millions to ‘advance’ and ‘protect’ what you called “freedom”. What is difference between the two? The only difference I see is that America killed many, many more people (millions) and invaded many more countries to impose its point of view, namely (freedom) than ISIS or the Taliban or Alqaeda (who are all America’s allies) did anywhere in the world!
LeftisruiningCanada says
No, wait, i alredy asked the Georgians – they didn’t think it was OK for Russia to move in try to Sovietize them out of existence.
But you ignored any mentions of that. Perhaps you aren’t willing to admit that Russia are like other people in the world. Perhaps Russia has never done anything wrong.
Peggy says
There is room for both, America and Russia in this world.
Nobody should be the absolute power and it’s always good when there is more than one power so they can both keep each other in check.
Absolute power corrupts. I wouldn’t trust either to be the only superpower.
Still, there is always room for the two powers to get a little closer. That would be the most comfortable for the world.
gravenimage says
Good posts, Georg and Wellington.
Georg says
You as well, gravenimage.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Seconded, enjoying the interaction no end 🙂
gravenimage says
Putin issues veiled threat to the United States
………………………..
Putin’s support of the hideous Shari’ah state of Iran is just appalling.
Richard says
“Putin’s support of the hideous Shari’ah state of Iran is just appalling.”
US support for the hideous Shariah state of Saudi Arabia is worse.
Not to mention the things Obama said in Cairo a few years ago.
Putin’s dealings with Islamic regimes are robust realpolitik and he has his own muslim minority under control (enforcing “traditional Russian Islam”) – whereas the US kowtows to the rich oil states and allows organisations like CAIR to censor people like Robert Spencer on US university campuses.
gravenimage says
No one here supports Saudi Arabia. Anti-Jihadists here oppose Shari’ah and Jihad wherever we find it.
But, sadly, many Russophiles here feel the need to support the savage barbarism of Iran.
Iran is no more an ally of Russia than Saudi Arabia or Pakistan are allies of the United States.
The American president has put Pakistan and Saudi Arabia on notice, and is talking about cutting aid. Would Putin ever do such a thing with Iran? I doubt it. Instead, he is, insanely, enabling Iran’s nuclear program.
christianblood says
gravenimage posted
(..But, sadly, many Russophiles here feel the need to support the savage barbarism of Iran..)
Graven, Let us separate facts from propaganda:
according to the (thereligionofpeace.com) 32320 deadly islamic terrorist attacks have been carried out since 9/11. I challenge you to Show me a single one of them perpetrated or carried out by Iranians???
TomD says
Christianblood, every terrorist act committed by Hezbollah was aided and abetted by Iran.
I’m sorry, but the current Russian support for Iran is likely to be a blunder on a scale equal to Stalin’s early 1950’s support of German rearmament.
Jack Diamond says
and you said post 9/11 to avoid discussing the involvement of Iran with al Qaeda in jihad terror attack after jihad terror attack, including 9/11 itself? Sorry, those count.
Does financial support and the arming of terrorist entities constitute involvement in terrorist attacks? They do legally. Iran has supported and armed Hamas.
Furthermore, as with al Qaeda, it has trained Hamas terrorists so they can kill infidels better. A typical example:
GAZA , March 9 (UPI) — “A top Hamas official has confirmed reports that members of the militant Palestinian political organization have received military training in Iran.
The unidentified Izzedine al-Qassam Brigades official said Hamas fighters have been trained in Tehran by members of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard for more than two years, The Times of London reported Sunday.”
Iran has supported Hamas, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, the PFLP, sundry al Qaeda fighters (an al Qaeda affiliate called Islamic Jihad Union is based in Mashhad, Iran), Houthi rebels in Yemen, and Shi’a militants from Bahrain to Iraq. The U.S Treasury Dept. in 2014 sanctioned 3 IRGC officers for directly supporting the Taliban and attacks in Afghanistan.
In April, 2013 two operatives linked to the al Qaeda network in Iran were arrested in Canada planning to derail a train going from New York to Toronto.
https://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/news/story/21836/20130423/canada-disrupts-al-qaeda-supported-major-terror-plot
Iran is called a state-sponsor of terrorism for a reason.
gravenimage says
Christianblood, I have already condemned Jihad terror attacks here thousands of times, whether perpetrated by Sunnis or Shia.
I have asked you dozens of times now to condemn Iran hanging gay people, stoning women to death, backing murderous Hizb’allah, and vowing to wipe Israel off the map. You have repeatedly refused to say anything critical of these horrors.
Moreover, you have *defended* these barbarities, claiming that they are brave resistance to American values. *Ugh*.
christianblood says
TomD posted
(..Christianblood, every terrorist act committed by Hezbollah was aided and abetted by Iran..)
Prove it!
TomD: According to the (thereligionofpeace.com) 32320 deadly islamic terrorist attacks have been carried out since 9/11. Show me a single one of them perpetrated or sponsored by the Iranians???
Jack Diamond says
When you supply missiles to Hamas that are then launched against Israeli civilians that is terrorism sponsored by the Iranians.
“IRGC head General Mohammad Ali Jafari admitted in November 2012 to transferring missile technology and other military assistance to Hamas.After Hamas fired Iranian-made Fajr-5 missiles at Israel in 2012, IRGC head Mohammad Ali Jafari admitted that Iran had shared the missile technology, along with other military assistance, with Hamas.”
“A significant number of the rocket attacks from Gaza against Israel before and during the Gaza conflicts in 2008-09, 2012 and 2014 were enabled by Iranian supply of munitions and funds to Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad and other groups.”
When you provide roadside bombs to militants in Iraq that kill civilians and American soldiers, that is sponsoring terrorism. “Former U.S. President George W. Bush accused Iran, and the IRGC in particular, of providing roadside bombs to militants within Iraq in 2007″….”The United States has also accused the Quds Force of providing Iraqi militants with armor-piercing explosives, homemade bombs, anti-aircraft weaponry, rockets, RPGs, and explosives.”
The Taliban carry out terrorist operations. “The U.S. government has accused the IRGC’s Quds Force of providing logistical, financial, and material support to the Taliban. General Hossein Musavi and Colonel Hasan Mortezavi, senior IRGC members, were designated on August 3, 2011 as terrorists under Executive Order 13224 for providing financial and material support to the Taliban.*
“ISAF General Stanley McChrystal stated that Iran is training Taliban insurgents and providing them with weapons. This was corroborated by a Taliban commander who stated that Iran was training Taliban fighters in “small unit tactics” because they “both want to kill Americans.”
But let’s answer your question.
“In 2012, a bus carrying Israeli tourists at the Sarafovo Airport in Burgas, Bulgaria, was bombed. Five Israelis and the Bulgarian driver were killed and 32 Israelis were wounded.73 Bulgaria’s Chief Prosecutor Sotir Tsatsarov announced the identities of two suspects, Australian citizen Meliad Farah, 32, also known as Hussein Hussein, and 25-year-old Hassan El Hajj Hassan, a Canadian citizen. The suspects are alleged by the prosecutors to be members of the armed wing of Hizbullah.”
This: ” Delhi Police accused the IRGC of involvement in a February 13, 2012, bomb attack against an Israeli diplomat in New Delhi. According to the Times of India, members of the IRGC had discussed the plan with an Indian journalist in 2011, and the journalist, Syed Mohammad Ahmad Kazmi, had been in touch with the IRGC for almost 10 years.”
In keeping with equally lethal foiled plots: “In March 2012, U.S. and Israeli officials were among those targeted for assassination by a group of IRGC-linked terrorists arrested in Baku, Azerbaijan. The attempts were part of a broader campaign by Iran-linked operatives to kill foreign diplomats in at least seven countries over a span of 13 months.” and “Iran’s Quds Force is suspected of paying the Mexican drug cartel Los Zetas to carry out a failed 2011 attempt to blow up the Israeli embassy in Washington, D.C., and the Saudi and Israeli embassies in Argentina.”
or this: “In 2007, Shiite militants, under the direction of the IRGC, kidnapped British computer expert Peter Moore and four security guards, who are held in Quds Force-run prisons.* Moore was released in December 2009, but the four guards were killed.”
https://www.counterextremism.com/threat/islamic-revolutionary-guard-corps-irgc
http://jcpa.org/killing-americans-allies-irans-war/
You are all wet.
gravenimage says
Good posts, Jack.
christianblood says
Richard posted
(..US support for the hideous Shariah state of Saudi Arabia is worse.
Not to mention the things Obama said in Cairo a few years ago.
Putin’s dealings with Islamic regimes are robust realpolitik and he has his own muslim minority under control (enforcing “traditional Russian Islam”) – whereas the US kowtows to the rich oil states and allows organisations like CAIR to censor people like Robert Spencer on US university campuses..)
Thank you, Richard!
Indiana Tom says
Putin’s dealings with Islamic regimes are robust realpolitik and he has his own muslim minority under control
Really? So that is why they have all the Islamic terror incidents and the Southern Muslim sub states seem a little shaky.
Iran would slit Russia’s throat about as fast as America’s.
gravenimage says
Christianblood wrote:
Richard posted
(..US support for the hideous Shariah state of Saudi Arabia is worse.
Not to mention the things Obama said in Cairo a few years ago.
…………………………
Everyone here has strongly criticized Obama’s appeasement of Islam–beginning with Robert Spencer himself. Why does Christianblood continue to deny this?
More:
Putin’s dealings with Islamic regimes are robust realpolitik and he has his own muslim minority under control (enforcing “traditional Russian Islam”)
…………………………
*Really*? So opening thousands of new Mosques, playing footsie with the hideous Islamic Republic of Iran, and allowing parts of Russia to become Shari’ah states are *good* things?
Also, how does “traditional Russian Islam” differ from the real thing?
Right now in Chechnya, gays are being hunted down and murdered, and there are no prosecutions for “Honor Killings”, which the Muslim president has expressed his approval of. How is this anything but mainstream Islam?
More:
– whereas the US kowtows to the rich oil states and allows organisations like CAIR to censor people like Robert Spencer on US university campuses..)
…………………………
We are *fighting* this here, not lauding it as Richard is doing with appeasement of Islam in Russia.
More:
Thank you, Richard!
…………………………
Alas, Christianblood is also for the appeasement of Islam in Russia itself. Unfortunately, this only leads to Muslims being emboldened there, and more Jihad terror–often in the capital of Moscow itself. I am disturbed to see this. Russia deserves better.
gravenimage says
One last thing here, Christianblood–you say that Putin is enforcing “traditional Russian Islam”. This implies that he is personally enforcing Shari’ah law.
While it is obvious that he is allowing Shari’ah to be enforced in Chechnya, which is deeply disturbing, I do not believe that he personally is enforcing Shari’ah law. That is, indeed, calumny.
christianblood says
gravenimage posted
(..Putin’s support of the hideous Shari’ah state of Iran is just appalling..)
You are right, Graven! It was Putin who went to Saudi Arabia, (the perpetrators of 9/11 attacks) signed 300 billion deal in arms with them, danced with jihadist princes and bowed to the Saudi king! Sarc off!
gravenimage says
As I have noted here umpteen times, Christianblood, Anti-Jihadists here including myself regularly criticize the savagery of Saudi Arabia, and criticize any American who was foolish enough to consider them an ally–including President Trump.
But he has recently put Saudi Arabia on notice–I am glad to see it.
But I notice that you *still* won’t say anything critical of Iran hanging gay people, stoning women to death, and vowing wipe Israel off the map.
In fact, you previously *applauded* these horrors as supposed resistance to US hegemony. *Ugh*.
christianblood says
gravenimage
You are again falsely accusing me. I never applauded
hanging gay people, stoning women to death, and wiping Israel off the map. These are really false accusations. What I say is that Saudi Arabia is far more dangerous than Iran and that Iran is actually fighting ISIS and other Saudi and US-backed Wahhabi, Takfiri jihadists in Syria, in Iraq and In Lebanon and these are all genuine and factual happenings, Graven.
Georg says
It seems gravenimage and American counterjihadists despise KSA while you guys who love Putin won’t say boo about Iran. The ayatollahs are no better than the Sauds; they’re both Islamist nutcases seeking to acquire nuclear weapons. Anyway, as Russian propaganda creeps me out like almost nothing else I won’t be corresponding with its proponents any longer. I wouldn’t waste your time, gravenimage. The jury has long been in on communism and its afterbirth.
gravenimage says
Thanks, Georg.
gravenimage says
Christianblood, you have said here multiple times that the only reason Westerners have any problems with Iran is because they are ‘bravely’ standing up to the United States.
christianblood says
Georg
Right Georg! It was Putin who went to Saudi Arabia, danced with head-choppers, bowed to their tyrants and kissed their asses! Right?
LeftisruiningCanada says
Seems to be a lot black and white thinking going on with regards to the US and what goes on there. As if the “US”, in general, “allows organisations like CAIR to censor people like Robert Spencer”.
That’s really no way to understand the complexities involved…
And so far as Iran goes, why is there so much desire to defend it? It’s not like they don’t fund jihad against Israel.
Or maybe that’s the reason?
TomD says
No, it’s noting to do with Israel. Russophiles (well, blind ones, I’m a bit of a Russophile but my eyes are open) close their eyes to Iran because the Iranians have currency to buy Russian technology. That’s the reason.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Sure seems to be part of it, but there also seems to be a deep desire to oppose anything that the US has ever had anything to do with, while supporting cheerleader style anything the US has opposed.
Thanks for the input though 🙂
gravenimage says
True, LeftisruiningCanada.
Champ says
Putin has always been a treacherous man, so I’m not sure why Trump ever spoke so warmly of him. I suppose Trump is just playing politics …
Champ says
Trump tweets: “Hey I thought we were friends” …waaaaa!
Peterson says
West is in decline because of their penchant for Islam. The Europe is finished. May be America will be saved because of Trump.
christianblood says
Peterson posted
(..West is in decline because of their penchant for Islam. The Europe is finished. May be America will be saved because of Trump.
Reply..)
You are right. Remember, Western, postmodernist liberalism emboldens and aids Islamism and eventually, if this trend continues, islamists will take over the West. First, Western Europe will fall and then shortly afterwards, North America will follow! The root cause of all this confusion and spineless in the West is ultimately spiritual and one can’t fight spiritual warfare with secular values and ‘democracy’ the clueless and deceived Western liberal elites who are running the West don’t understand this! This is will eventually lead the West an ultimate defeat and complete islamist take over! Please, watch as this investigative Danish Catholic journalists explains this in comparison to Russia’s situation concerning islam:
http://katehon.com/video/main-problem-west-spiritual
LeftisruiningCanada says
Being a Christian, i do agree that the West is suffering from turning away from it’s Christian foundations. But it isn’t everyone in the West who are doing that.
It would be better to take note of the ebb and flow that happens in a freer society CB. We prefer the “battle ground of ideas” approach to more authoritarian management concepts of society. Freedom has risks.
Champ says
The revolting “christianblood” appears to be so joyful over the prospect of America going down courtesy his beloved leader Putin–that he can’t spam enough anti-American propaganda and comments on this thread–disgusting!
This creep has some nerve seemingly dancing on our graves and America hasn’t even been blown to smithereens yet. Hate to spoil your party, pal, but this will never happen.
And it’s no great surprise since “christianblood” never misses an opportunity to spam the threads with anti-American rhetoric. He’s been doing this for a loooong time.
gravenimage says
Champ, Christianblood has said before that he is gleefully looking forward to Islam destroying the West. *Ugh*.
Champ says
“Christianblood has said before that he is gleefully looking forward to Islam destroying the West. *Ugh*.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Graven, that’s right. Well, “christianblood” is certainly in rare form on this thread.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Good way to put it Champ, things really got stirred up on this one.
Champ says
Thank you, LeftisruiningCanada.
WorkingClassPost says
Russia is no more a monolith than is USA, and if Hilary had won the last election, Putin would be our greatest hope right about now.
Trump may or may not win another term (or even finish this one) but the way things are, Russia is more likely to be an ally in the fight against the horrors of islam than is any of Western Europe.
christianblood says
WorkingClassPost posted
(..Putin would be our greatest hope right about now. Trump may or may not win another term (or even finish this one) but the way things are, Russia is more likely to be an ally in the fight against the horrors of islam than is any of Western Europe..)
Thanks for speaking the Truth! The Sun is setting for the Western world indeed.
The whole world looks, not to the US or to Nato for leadership but President Putin
and everybody knows that.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Apologies if i’ve read you wrongly, but it does seem that you rather like the idea that “the sun is setting for the western world”. Why is that?
christianblood says
LeftisruiningCanada
Isn’t that obvious? The combined forces of Liberalism and Islamism
will eventually destroy the West. Things can change for the better but only if people change their course and that will not happen! The ultimate cause of this impending collapse is spiritual but Western elites don’t understand, they are DECEIVED! You can’t deal deep-rooted spiritual problem with secular values!
LeftisruiningCanada says
Yes it is obvious, but it pays to make sure first. Things are too easily misunderstood online aren’t they.
What i don’t understand is why you think most people here don’t agree with your statement there. We do. But we aren’t the elites, and neither is “the West”.
But when we see you expressing happiness over the fall of the West, it looks a lot like you are also glad that we will fall with it. No doubt there are problems here, no one will say otherwise, but ultimately islam is the problem. Without that, we could go about fixing our own problems more easily.
gravenimage says
Of course, WorkingClassPost was suggesting that Russia could be an ally against Islamization.
But Christianblood is–once again–slavering over the prospect of Islam destroying the free West. He does not even care if this puts Russia at risk–he just wants to see us suffer. *Ugh*.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Quite bizarre all round
Champ says
“Putin issues veiled threat to the United States”
And then we have “christianblood” seizing an opportunity to spam this thread with anti-American propaganda, and the like …
Greeeeat!
Peterson says
The US should not poke Putin unnecessarily. If some elements are trying to undermine Russia, Trump should immediately intervene.
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
Good for you Christine, you read http://www.rt.com as I do. I find it to be a reliable news source (all things considered with the MSM in the West). I find it to be the quickest at posting important news events. (Often it will have a post within 15 minutes of the event!) I will open it up first thing in the morning to find out if something important has happened in the world. Some say it’s a Russian propaganda site but I am frequently surprised at how many anti-Kremlin or anti-Russian articles they post or re-post. Besides, if one wishes to get both sides of the story …. then go to both sides and get their version of the story.
I believe this article you quote comes from Putin’s annual marathon (on average over three hours) news-conference. Pretty impressive. Siting by himself in a room full of journalists with only a few notes and fielding questions for over three hours. Do you know of any other modern leader who can and does do that?
I think his frustration is well justified. I think, in a way, he envies American politicians. It’s sooo easy to lie to the American electorate.
gravenimage says
Of course, Putin will also have journalists who are too troublesome assassinated. That’s not such a good thing…
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
It’s sooo easy to lie to the American electorate.
gravenimage says
And this means…what? That Putin is not assassinating journalists, or that you do not believe it is necessary to assassinate journalists in the West?
“Here are 10 critics of Vladimir Putin who died violently or in suspicious ways”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/03/23/here-are-ten-critics-of-vladimir-putin-who-died-violently-or-in-suspicious-ways/
The idea that some critics of Putin just accidentally come down with polonium-210 poisoning is pretty hard to swallow. (grim pun intended).
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
gravenimage:
”
And this means…what? That Putin is not assassinating journalists, or that you do not believe it is necessary to assassinate journalists in the West?
“Here are 10 critics of Vladimir Putin who died violently or in suspicious ways”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/03/23/here-are-ten-critics-of-vladimir-putin-who-died-violently-or-in-suspicious-ways/
The idea that some critics of Putin just accidentally come down with polonium-210 poisoning is pretty hard to swallow. (grim pun intended).”
================
My response:
The Washington Post???
First, I’ve never said that Putin was an angel. An angel wouldn’t be able to put the Russian tax system back together again. Putin is the right man for the job. He’s a street fighters and he was and is up against some of the nastiest oligarchs around.
Second, assassination isn’t his style. He’s a “get videotapes of the guy with his mistress” kind of operator.
Third, I’ve looked deeply into some of these ten accusations and once one gets past the surface, the doubts that Putin is responsible start to build. I’m not saying he isn’t behind any of them but even the Post’s article uses the word “suspicious” in its headline. (A smear technique used frequently by our beloved MSM.)
Since the Magnisky case is the most well known, I will direct you to the investigative reporters website, 100 Reporters:
https://100r.org/2017/10/magnitsky/
gravenimage says
Having your critics wiped out is standard KGB tactics, Flavius.
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
Are you ex-KGB?
gravenimage says
No, I am not ex-KGB. The idea that I hence know nothing about them is just silly. I doubt very much that you are ex-KGB, either.
Michael B says
I can’t claim extensive knowledge of the history of Russia, but what happened pre-Putin is quite different from what he has done since he came into power.
I do not cast Putin as a villain or a brute anywhere along the lines of his predecessors. That Russia is made out to be the monster, serves the purposes of a very globalist agenda for the powers that be who run this country, and want to control the world. I don’t include President Trump in that group.
Putin is preserving and strengthening Christianity, and at least controlling and limiting Islam in Russia. A communist leader does not support Christianity; it is the antithesis of communism.
Russia was decimated after the wall came down, with the Clintons playing a big role in all of it. Putin has had his hands full recovering from the damage inflicted on Russia by globalists after the wall came down
Putin’s involvement in Syria was at least in part to counter the CIA-supported ISIS.
I see Russia as a far more moral country than America at this point. I love America, but where we are headed — into degeneracy that seems to grow day by day — is ugly.
christianblood says
Michael B posted
(..I do not cast Putin as a villain or a brute anywhere along the lines of his predecessors. That Russia is made out to be the monster, serves the purposes of a very globalist agenda for the powers that be who run this country, and want to control the world. I don’t include President Trump in that group.
Putin is preserving and strengthening Christianity, and at least controlling and limiting Islam in Russia. A communist leader does not support Christianity; it is the antithesis of communism.
Russia was decimated after the wall came down, with the Clintons playing a big role in all of it. Putin has had his hands full recovering from the damage inflicted on Russia by globalists after the wall came down
Putin’s involvement in Syria was at least in part to counter the CIA-supported ISIS.
I see Russia as a far more moral country than America at this point. I love America, but where we are headed — into degeneracy that seems to grow day by day — is ugly..)
Dear Michael B, You are indeed a man of Truth! Thank you and God bless you!
gravenimage says
Michael B wrote:
I do not cast Putin as a villain or a brute anywhere along the lines of his predecessors…
……………………..
If you mean that Putin is not nearly as bad as Stalin, I certainly agree. Rather damning with faint praise, though…
More:
Putin is preserving and strengthening Christianity, and at least controlling and limiting Islam in Russia. A communist leader does not support Christianity; it is the antithesis of communism.
……………………..
Putin was KGB, which did a great deal to persecute Christianity.
And allowing a full Shari’ah state on Russian soil is *not* controlling or limiting Islam; nor is opening thousands of new Mosques.
Russia does periodically crack down on Islam, but it is hardly consistent.
More:
Russia was decimated after the wall came down, with the Clintons playing a big role in all of it. Putin has had his hands full recovering from the damage inflicted on Russia by globalists after the wall came down
……………………..
Wait–you think the Berlin Wall–where people were prevented from fleeing the horrors of Communism–was a *good thing*? *Ugh*.
And you *do* realize that Christians were heavily persecuted under the Soviet Union, don’t you?
More:
Putin’s involvement in Syria was at least in part to counter the CIA-supported ISIS.
……………………..
We’ve heard this twaddle before–that the CIA created ISIS. Actually, Jihad terror dates back 1400 years.
And Russia has long had ties with Iran and Syria, which much predate ISIS.
More:
I see Russia as a far more moral country than America at this point. I love America, but where we are headed — into degeneracy that seems to grow day by day — is ugly.
……………………..
What could be more moral than assassinating your critics and allowing Shari’ah? sarc/off
LeftisruiningCanada says
How can we say that Christianity is being strengthened in Russia under Putin?
gravenimage says
Christians have more freedom in Russia today than they did under Communism, but that’s about it. And Protestants and Jehovah’s Witnesses are still persecuted.
Matthieu Baudin says
If the Russian Leadership is getting tetchy about the growing instability of the Theocracy ruling Iran then it will just have to sit on the sidelines or risk the wrath of the Iranian populous. If the U.S. manages to improve it’s image in the middle east through the more honest and transparent approach of the Trump administration then there are also ample opportunities for Russia to also modify it’s approach and win friends in the region.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
why evîl united States is so desparate to maintain hegemonic control over international community through spying. It woefully failed in Iran,what more of Russia Who got the root of evil machinations by this evil entity through Snowden ? Let them forget about hegemony, It has gone forever.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Jealous for the glory days of Nigeria are you Ibrahim?
gravenimage says
Ibrahim itace muhammed has to claim that the United States is finished at least once a day…
Daniel Triplett says
Regardless how anyone feels about Putin or Russia, we will never win the Islamic War without a Russo-Sino-Indian-Israeli-UK-French-US Alliance. Unless and until we all decide together to force Worldwide Islamic criminalization, the War will continue forever. We’re losing badly, and will continue to lose until we can learn to cooperate and win with our partners.
While the current Russo — Iranian relationship is disturbing, don’t forget that Russia is equally disturbed by the US relationship with all Sunni Gulf states and Egypt. We train their militaries and sell them all kinds of advanced weapons. The US, Russia, and all other Kafir states must divorce the Ummah altogether. We have no Muslim allies. Allah and Muhammad prohibit them from being friends with us.
Badger says
I believe that the Anglophone nations would be capable of surviving and prospering without the dubious support of countries like Russia and France. New Zealand is currently going through a bad phase I hope will be temporary and Canada desperately needs a new government but we are collectively extremely powerful under American leadership. We belong together.
christianblood says
Badger posted
(..Regardless how anyone feels about Putin or Russia, we will never win the Islamic War without a Russo-Sino-Indian-Israeli-UK-French-US Alliance. Unless and until we all decide together to force Worldwide Islamic criminalization,.)
Well-said, that is what Russian leaders, like Putin believe and keep saying all the time. But it is clear that the US and Nato are more hateful to Russia and see it as more threat than the islamic extremists and they have always been like for the past several hundred years.
Please watch as His Holiness, Patriarch Kirrill of Russia addresses the same problem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsDrgD9hKEo
christianblood says
Correction:
The quote above is from (Daniel Triplett) not from Badger! I apologize!
gravenimage says
Daniel, I wish Infidel nations *would* ally against the threat of Islam.
Daniel Triplett says
Amen. Me too.
There is no other solution.
christianblood says
gravenimage & Daniel Triplett
What about their liberal enablers, Graven & Triplett?
What are you going to do about them? Islamic supremacism
will NOT thrive in the West without the support of islam-loving liberal enablers. Do you understand this?
Daniel Triplett says
Yes, of course I understand this. I’m American, a USAF Major, and a war Veteran. I’ve pitched in, and continue pitching in for God & Country. I live in America, and am strongly aware of the Liberals/Progressives/Democrats all pulling the wagon in the wrong direction.
My younger brother (only sibling) is one of them. I’ve spent decades trying to reason with him. It’s impossible. Even during my 6 years in combat, along with hundreds of thousands of other American brother and sister soldiers, my own brother was dancing around on the National Mall protesting the War with his dumbshit Lib buddies. Holding signs, “Bush lied, kids died!” “No blood for oil!” …and other such ignorant propaganda, which all give hope, vigor, and morale to the enemy that was trying to kill me and the other American Patriots.
My brother never got it. He’ll never get it. Just like the rest of the Left. They’re all arrogant and believe they’re superior in thought and reason. But I won’t stop trying to work with them and show them the truth. It’s a tough uphill climb. If the Ummah nukes Manhattan tomorrow, the Left still wouldn’t get it.
I do what I can with my limited amount of free time. I study the enemy. I participate in public forums like this. I do quite a bit on Twitter. I’m trying to write a book. I belong to vocal National Organizations. I’ve written an essay about Counter-Islamic War strategy, which currently has 95% Agreement on the latest Twitter poll I conducted.
You can read the essay yourself if you wish. It’s on constant public broadcast at Medium.com. This is an abstract of the book I’m trying to write, which is more comprehensive in detail and history:
“Total War: Extinguishing Islam from Earth”
Daniel Triplett
https://medium.com/@dantriplett/islamic-jihad-is-total-war-for-all-marbles-6c858098b76e
I assume from your posts that you are Russian, or at least pro-Russian. I have no animosity toward you or Russia. We’re on the same side. I’m not your foe. I’m your friend.
The suspicions, mistrust, and conflict our two nations have had toward each other in the past is now water under the bridge and no longer relevant. We must focus on today, tomorrow, and how we want the World to look in 10 years, 100 years, 1000 years, and forever. Russians love their children just as Americans love our children. We both owe our posterity a World with security and Freedom.
We all know what needs to happen. We can’t coexist with an ideology that pursues our extinction. Such an ideology must be extinguished. This is a zero-sum conflict: Their rules, not ours.
Russians and Americans must start cooperating and trusting each other. We must also continue building trust and cooperating with the other Infidel nuke states. We have an enormous strategic advantage now, which we will soon lose if we don’t use it.
Now is our time in the sun. We’ve arrived at a unique, but limited point in time in history where we can terminally eliminate our common enemy: Islam. The greatest legacy we can render to the World is liberating 1.7 Billion Muslims from Islam.
If we don’t cooperate, we will lose the War. Liberty will perish from Earth, and our grandchildren will justifiably judge us harshly for irresponsibly squandering this opportunity.
Our grandfathers made a heavy lift to eliminate Nazism and Imperial Shintoism. We must now do the heavy lift for our grandchildren.
There are only two sides in this War. It’s time everyone pick a side. Let’s start kicking ass, and get this whole mess over with.
LeftisruiningCanada says
+1
Nice, Dan
gravenimage says
I criticize clueless Leftist enablers of Islam all the time here, as Christianblood well knows.
christianblood says
Daniel Triplett posted
(..I do what I can with my limited amount of free time. I study the enemy. I participate in public forums like this. I do quite a bit on Twitter. I’m trying to write a book. I belong to vocal National Organizations. I’ve written an essay about Counter-Islamic War strategy, which currently has 95% Agreement on the latest Twitter poll I conducted..)
Daniel, thanks you so very much for your excellent post and encouraging words! Thanks for sharing the material and the link (which I saved for future reading/reference) and I hope you success in your plan to write a book on the subject matter. It was really refreshing to read your good comment to which I fully agree. May God bless you in your work brother and I hope you all the best!
Peggy says
Well said Daniel. I’ve been saying it for a long time now. We need Russia and Russia needs us.
Why is it ok for the US to have Islamic countries like SA as allies but not ok for Russia to have Iran? Why the hypocrisy?
It’s not enough to just say that you dislike America’s involvement with the Islamic world without painting America as black as Russia for the same crime. Why all the strong condemnation of Russia and proclamations how Russia is evil when the US has done exactly the same thing and continues to do it?
You know what they say, you can see a splinter in someone else’s eye but can’t see a log in yours.
Ok, so Russia has no free press. Let’s say that. Does the west? Where is the free press in the west? MSM is not free or fair. It is corrupt and serves evil. That much we all agree on.
What’s Russia’s press like? Does it match CNN, BBC, ABC, NBC, Washington Post, NY TIMES etc.
What about Australia’s press? Any better?
What about the Gulf War starting on an absolute lie? Is anyone actually buying this BS that it was just a mistake?
Australia follows the US like a puppy dog into all the wars without even thinking. No need for independent thought when your friend is the biggest and the baddest.
What the west did in the Balkans is an unforgivable crime which is still bearing evil fruit. But, let’s forget about all this and just keep condemning Russia for having the audacity to support Russians in the Ukraine, Georgia which makes a lot more sense than the west supporting Jihadists in the Balkans.
What I am trying to say is that this blind following of the propaganda against Russia is so stupid and pointless and frankly hypocritical when we should be looking within and cleaning our own house and stop making Russia’s crimes so big and minimizing our own.
Let’s all join together and then there would be no need to buddy up to Islamic countries thus saving our people from the Cancer that is Islam.
gravenimage says
Peggy wrote:
Why is it ok for the US to have Islamic countries like SA as allies but not ok for Russia to have Iran? Why the hypocrisy?
………………….
Peggy, *no one* here supports Saudi Arabia or considers them an ally of the West.
Any Infidel trusting brutal Muslim regimes–whether in Pakistan or Iran or anywhere else–is suicidal insanity.
Peggy says
I agree so why instead of finding faults with Russia we don’t invite them to help us get rid of Islam?
Why are we constantly alienating the very people who could help us? Isn’t it lunacy?
Nobody has clean hands so nobody can pretend to have superior moral advantage and badmouth the other.
The west clearly has dug itself in a deep ditch and climbing out of it will require assistance.
If the west and Russia started on solving common problem so much could be achieved and maybe there would be no need for either side to have Muslim “allies”.
Let’s start trusting and respecting each other. We are so much closer to each other than any Muslim.
gravenimage says
Peggy, if we believed that no one is morally superior then we might as well just surrender and convert to Islam now.
With respect, I have to disagree–I *do* think some values and actions are morally superior to others. Islamic ‘values’ are among the very worst.
Badger says
I do not see Putin’s “threat” as particularly hostile. It seems to me to be supportive of Trump in his battle against the liberal fascists and their endless and futile attempts to prove the myth of “collusion.”
I would love to see the headquarters of the US Sixth Fleet moved to Haifa. Now that really would be sending a message!
cjk says
Here I was wondering if no one else saw Putin’s comments that way too.
Also it would indeed be great to move the Sixth Fleet to Haifa and safer too when one considers it would be protected by Iron Dome.
Peggy says
Why not move Bondsteel to Haifa. It’s not necessary to protect the Islamists. Is it?
Alon says
The wars waged by Russia – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russia
Don Fredrick says
Yes, Putin is a thug, but he is not mistaken about U.S. interference in the affairs of other countries. Two examples: The Obama administration interfered in elections in Ukraine (via Victoria Nuland) and Israel (via Jeremy Bird). Pot, meet kettle.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Did you really compile 30 volumes of information for the Obama timeline?
TassieR says
It’s rather sad (or amusing?) to witness the excellent Robert Spencer’s article suddenly exploding with the dragon-seeds harvest about how reliable the RT propaganda is, how evil the United States are, how ignorant “Russophobes” are (it’s quite a fresh change, indeed, after Ibrahim itace muhammed was so long enlightening us just how ignorant Islamophobes are!), plus the most welcome news how “Putin is preserving and strengthening Christianity” with a hearty reaction “Dear Michael B, You are indeed a man of Truth! Thank you and God bless you!” – I’d think that it’s rather RT who should thank and bless any blatant lies about the corrupt KGB thug preserving Christianity! He preserves nothing but his dear Stalin’s legacy, doing it just more professionally this time (as the dragon-seeds harvest witness here). To judge from this harvest the only wisdom, which seems to be steadily winning now, is the Khrushchev’s prophetic “We shall bury you!”
TassieR says
sorry, I meant not Robert Spencer’s article but his site in general
LeftisruiningCanada says
It is quite interesting i agree.
Not been here all that long, so this strident pro russia strain is new territory for me.
gravenimage says
Luckily, LeftiisruiningCanada, there are not that many Russian apologists here–you see the same names popping up over and over again. But the few here are quite strident and aggressive.
LeftisruiningCanada says
It’s ok to favor a certain nation, especially if you are from there, or have religious connections, as some of these posters seem to.
The strident anti western, mostly anti american, sentiment is just irrational though isn’t it. Far more blinkered than we are accused of being.
gravenimage says
Agreed, LeftisruiningCanada.
Peggy says
Russia has tried to extend a hand of friendship to US. Look how wonderful it can be when Russia and the US work together. Look at the Jihadists in Syria being defeated.
I really don’t understand why the hostility towards Russia.
What has Russia done to the US that is so bad?
What has Russia done to anyone that the US hasn’t done to someone else or worse?
Seriously, why forgive huge crimes from US and keep painting Russia as something so evil?
Stalin is gone and he wasn’t even Russian. He was Georgian.
Russia is finally trying to find it’s place free from Communism and instead of the west offering support and trying to keep the momentum going, we are here condemning them.
What do we want? The west to control Russia and then they would be good little boys and girls?
gravenimage says
Peggy wrote:
Russia has tried to extend a hand of friendship to US. Look how wonderful it can be when Russia and the US work together. Look at the Jihadists in Syria being defeated.
………………….
Very much agree, Peggy.
Your idea that any criticism of Putin is a threat for the West to conquer Russia is just silly, though.
christianblood says
TassieR
B.S. Neocon, Russophobic propaganda!
https://www.facebook.com/thedurancom/videos/516832111981707/
Politicianophobia says
Moral Putin is worth 200 billion–no evil there.
Peggy says
Who is saying this? It might be true, it might not. We really can’t know exactly.
Moral, Clintons are criminals and have blood of many who tried to expose them on their hands.
How much are they worth now compared to what they had before they got into the WH?
Moral, have we examined how many have become extremely rich while in office?
What about the Bushes? Where did their wealth start from and when? I believe G Bush Snr was supportive on the Nazis. Why would that be? How about being in bed with the Saudis? How much has he made from that?
How many serve Lord Soros?
C’mon, we can find acquivelant situations everywhere. Why is Russia or Putin judged to a higher moral stand that others? Yes, I know that we condemn the others as well but we don’t ever say that nobody should pay any respect to our countries or leaders and we should be proclaimed pariahs like we want Russians to.
Think about it. We are all guilty of the same crimes. Not saying it OK but please all, start worrying about our own governments and start looking at our own countries through the same eyes. We certainly are no better. I have always tried to see my country honestly, warts and all and tried to fight for better. I am honest enough to realize that Australia has no moral ground to stand on and condemn others. We have joined in some very unjust wars and have stood by and let some very bad things happen.
gravenimage says
Peggy, you think civilized Australia is no better than Nazi Germany or KSA? Are you serious?
Peggy says
Of course Australia is better than that but there is no Nazi Germany any more. There is ISIS and just like back then when the west and Soviet Union joined forces to fight a common enemy it would be great if it can be repeated.
j_not_a says
Yes indeed. What did poo-tun do immediately after the Sochi Olympics? Go after the chechen terrorists responsible for the attack 18 days prior? No, “tough on islamic terror” poo-tun attacked Ukraine. Oooh, Mr. “tough guy” picks on Ukraine, who had nothing to do with terrorism. poo-tun all talk, no balls.
And now he is ganging up on Jehovah’s Witnesses, making their activities illegal. Oooooh, Mr. tough guy, taking on such an “evil” formidable opponent.. He is beyond laughable and pathetic. “spit”
gravenimage says
+1
j_not_a says
Thank you GI, for the thumbs up, I should have elaborated. He has also had JWs’ assets, monetary and property confiscated, members mass jailed meaning families separated, as well as physical abuse., and a ban on public gatherings. As a Ukrainian and a Jehovah’s Witness, you can imagine why I am no fan of poo-tun.
gravenimage says
I did not know you were Ukrainian, j_not_a–more reasons to turn a jaundiced eye on Putin.
And I am certainly familiar with the terrible persecution of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia.
“Persecution of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia intensifies and targets children”
http://religionnews.com/2017/06/01/persecution-of-jehovahs-witnesses-in-russia-intensifies-and-targets-children/
This persecution also gives the lie to the idea that Putin is a staunch protector of Christianity.
LeftisruiningCanada says
While i cannot confess that the Watchtower is a Christian denomination, i am aware of the pressure that they have been subjected to in Russia, and in no way agree with it.
It is to be remembered however that this pressure is not limited to members of the Watchtower only. The pressure is being applied to all people who aim to proselytize outside of designated places of worship.
https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2016/june/no-evangelizing-outside-of-church-russia-proposes.html
In short, it’s the door knocking that has brought the attention of the State down on the JWs.
Until the Watchtower allows other methods of evangelism to count towards active status, JWs will find it difficult to go about their business.
gravenimage says
Going door to door should be allowed in any free country. If people are not interested, they can say so.
As well as Jehovah’s Witnesses, we sometimes have Mormons go door to door.
I don’t want to see anyone persecuted for this.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Yeah, i agree wholeheartedly.
Plus, they are a mission field that actually comes to you 🙂
Peggy says
Yes, not allowing door knocking is oppressive but let’s take a look at what JW are all about too.
Do you know that JW are not allowed to make friends with non JW? My daughter was a friend of a girl whose mother is a JW and obviously her brother was as well. They were friends at school but this girl wasn’t allowed to see my daughter outside school. She could’t come over to our place and my daughter wasn’t invited to her place.
JW members are punished if they act in any way not approved by the religion and they are forced to shun the rest of their family who are not in the same religion so when they do manage to convert someone they also manage to tear families apart.
JW is more a cult than a religion. Does this remind anyone of another “religion”. The only thing JW are not about is killing others for not being the same.
I don’t know much about Mormons so don’t have an opinion on them but I don’t like JW being able to lure people into their cult.
If I am wrong about any of this then someone please correct me.
gravenimage says
Peggy, I am not an unalloyed fan of Jehovah’s Witnesses myself, and I lost my best friend in grade school when her family converted and I did not.
I also am sometimes annoyed, I confess, when they are ringing my doorbell.
But they are an entirely peaceful group, and should not be oppressed or persecuted, as they are in so much of the world.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Peggy, yes the Watchtower is very much a controlling and authoritarian cult. It is also a twisted mishmash of Christian beliefs mixed with old heresy along with new inventions by the “Society”.
If anyone needs to understand how the society works, it is necessary to look at only one document – the brochure called “Should you Believe in the Trinity”.
It has been in circulation for many years now, and is a classic example of misinformation, half truth, deceptive quotation practices and outright lies.
There is a PDF copy of the brochure and a bit of analysis on the following link.
http://biblethumpingwingnut.com/2017/01/19/addressing-errors-in-the-watch-tower-publication-should-you-believe-in-the-trinity/
Any organization that needs to lie and deceive like the Watchtower is no lover of truth, and no spokesman for God.
Georg says
“[Putin] is beyond . . . pathetic.”
Let’s not forget the GDP of Russia is about $1.3 trillion. By comparison, California’s is $2.4 trillion, and the combined US and EU about $38 trillion, or almost 30 times that at Putin’s disposal. There is no “sleeping bear” to poke I don’t remember bears being 1/30 the size of a human; that’d be closer to a yapping chihuahua. To the creep’s credit, he’s done a lot with a little regarding propaganda, there is no denying Soviet expertise in that. But any thinking adult can easily see it for what it is. Of course, they are armed heavily with nukes, but due to MAD they are practically null and void. Stand up to bullies — especially small, vulnerable ones.
LeftisruiningCanada says
That does give a little perspective
christianblood says
Georg
Russia is far, far wealthier than all the West combined and its wealth is not money! I know you understand this but is a Fact!
christianblood says
correction:
You don’t understand this but is a Fact!
LeftisruiningCanada says
You say it is fact, yet provide none to support your assertion.
Peggy says
What’s the debt up to for US?
Don’t worry so much about the GDP when the debt is far scarier.
China holds all the cards.
Georg says
China owns about 6% of our debt. Not good, of course, and is to some extent a security concern. But China doesn’t own nearly as much as most people think it does. At this point we still hold the cards, but that could change over the next 30 or so years. Their military is still rudimentary compared with ours and most people fail to realize what a poor country it is.
Ute67 says
Amazing that this thread full of JW commenters rallying around the flag of the Good ol’ USA & Freedom ( insert imaginary trademark symbol) to defend against what Christianblood is pointing out regarding Russia. In the freedom loving USA, most all the thought expressed on this site is considered hate speech, and any commenter here is likely on a government watch list. It’s kind of cute that so many here think that all the moral rot that the USA/WEST is pushing on the world is the result of people misusing freedom, when in fact the rot is the result of official policy to encourage, sanction, reward, mandate, & export such rot. Something has gone terribly wrong with the USA’s experiment with democracy. You all can see & acknowledge this in the collusion the government has with islamists, it’s the whole purpose of this site! Why such a huge blindspot beyond that?
christianblood says
Ute67 posted
(.. It’s kind of cute that so many here think that all the moral rot that the USA/WEST is pushing on the world is the result of people misusing freedom, when in fact the rot is the result of official policy to encourage, sanction, reward, mandate, & export such rot. Something has gone terribly wrong with the USA’s experiment with democracy. You all can see & acknowledge this in the collusion the government has with islamists..)
Thank you for your enlightening comment (Ute67)!
It is shocking that the majority of the commenters have NO clue of what they are talking about. They don’t understand, the global liberal establishment led by the US is indeed in cahoots with the global islamist establishment led by the Saudis. They CANNOT see that Liberalism and Islamism are the two sides of the same satanic coin! They are indeed deceived! Ultimately the source of this whole confusion in the USA/West has huge spiritual roots but they cannot understand or see it, For
(..The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them FOOLISHNESS, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit..).
1 Korinthians 2:14
LeftisruiningCanada says
“It is shocking that the majority of the commenters have NO clue of what they are talking about. They don’t understand, the global liberal establishment led by the US is indeed in cahoots with the global islamist establishment led by the Saudis. They CANNOT see that Liberalism and Islamism are the two sides of the same satanic coin! They are indeed deceived! Ultimately the source of this whole confusion in the USA/West has huge spiritual roots but they cannot understand or see it,”
What i think is really shocking, is the incredible lack of discernment being displayed here.
Everybody here is aware of the ‘global ‘liberal’ establishment’ CB, at least in some way. We know that the word ‘liberal’ is being used as a cover for big state socialism, and that it is indeed evil.
You continue to refuse any kind of distinction to be made in your understanding of the West or the US, preferring instead to revel in the kind of crass generalisms that you yourself would never accept if we were to do it towards your idol, mother Russia.
Yes, we know that some elements in the US political scene are involved in the ‘one world government’ push for power. But those that are are NOT to be understood as being all that the US (or Canada for that matter) stand for or what we consider ourselves to stand for.
You have said that you regard Communism as something that was imposed upon Russia. Perhaps. But if yo are willing to make that distinction for your own interest, why can you not make the same effort in your thinking about the West?
The US is not built on a foundation of socialist evil. It is founded on the freest ideas regarding the individual and how to protect both him and the state from the influence of evil at all levels. There are some who have worked for many years, and continue to work, to undermine those protection and freedoms. They have also worked hard to destroy the Christian nature of those foundations.
Rather than hating the US and wishing it’s demise (something unlikely) it would be better if you realized that the people you are going on and on to about how evil their country is are not your enemies. You can take that stuff to some other place where you’ find people who actually believe in all the evil things that most of us here don’t.
Wellington says
Fine post, LeftisruiningCanada. Both you and gravenimage have made many excellent comments on this thread. Hope you are doing well.
Mark Swan says
All the Worlds Nations Combined Have Not Done As Much Right As The United
States OF America…The systems others call democracy are a knock-off of the
American-Way, the prosperity of the Whole World Up-To Now is linked to this Amazing Country—AMERICA—which could have stood the world on it’s ear, but did not.
While I agree that American leadership has done many things the wrong way and
still does
China’s and Russia’s military intrigue is taunting the EU, which has launched a multi-billion dollar defense research and development programmed with the ultimate aim of merging the continent’s militaries into one military . New leadership in Germany can be very energized from what it is now, and eastern European and Scandinavian alliances with Germany leading, could happen and bring about a very different Europe that is economically and militarily very formidable and determined to be respected.
We could see a real super-power form in Europe…brought on by Russia’s and China’s posturing and America’s vacillating and lack of resolve and other world events. While
the European theater continues, America Must wake-up now to its own serious problems.
If sound American leadership can not take hold…we will face a harshly changed world unsure of a weak and unstable America. We will be at the mercy of a merciless World.
This could all culminate in un-acceptable events that would be catastrophic, for the Whole World.
LeftisruiningCanada says
We’re all fine here now thanks…how are you 🙂
Interesting issues in this thread for sure.
gravenimage says
Fine posts, LeftisruiningCanada, Wellington, and Mark.
gravenimage says
Ute67 wrote:
In the freedom loving USA, most all the thought expressed on this site is considered hate speech, and any commenter here is likely on a government watch list.
……………………..
This is really absurd. There is an erosion of freedom of speech in much of the West, no doubt, but the idea that anyone who says anything critical of Islam is on a “government watch list” is ridiculous.
You might think that there is something terribly wrong with freedom and democracy, but most of us recognize this as a great strength.
In fact, one of the main reasons we oppose the horrors of Islam it so defend our freedoms.
gravenimage says
is to
Peggy says
Because most people are not capable of accepting just how rotten their own system is and have to find someone else “far worse”.
Peggy says
gravenimage says
Jan 16, 2018 at 6:14 pm
Peggy, your idea that freedom and democracy actually consist of the undermining of freedom and democracy is mistaken.
=========================
Hi GI, great speaking to you.
Actually I am saying that the version of democracy in the west now is enabling all the evil spreading.
True democracy doesn’t exist any more. I am all for democracy and believe that’s the best system we can have but sadly we don’t have democracy any longer.
We are lucky to have this site to discuss what is rotten and how to defeat it. Try posting anything close to this in NY times and see if it even gets published or anywhere in the MSM.
I don’t like this new west we have now. I hate it and want it changed ASAP.
I want to work with other nations and want to make as many friends as possible in order to bring peace. I want us to mend fences and stop condemning and start repairing relations.
Someone has to start somewhere or we are all doomed. You see, while we are fighting Islam wins.
gravenimage says
Peggy, you are right that there is a great deal of cluelessness in the West regarding Islam, as well as those who think that Muslims only want the freedom to worship like any other peaceful group.
Many stories at Jihad Watch cover just this problem.
And I am not Anti-Russian, and I agree with you that infighting does not help. *All* Infidels should join together to defend against Islam.
Some like Christianblood, though, has openly said that he looks forward to the destruction of the free West by Islam. I think this is nuts, and does not help any in the fight against Islam.
Peggy says
gravenimage says
Jan 16, 2018 at 6:19 pm
Unfortunately, Peggy, Russia is still authoritarian, and Putin is a virtual dictator. Of course it is better there now than it was during the appalling Soviet Union, but that is not saying much.
==============================
Then why not extend an olive branch and start working together?
I don’t know how much worse Russia is.
How many opponents of Hillary have turned up dead? That’s authoritarian.
What’s the difference then? She still has many supporters in the right places.
gravenimage says
Peggy, I have no trouble with working with Russia on some matters, especially on sharing information on Jihad terror. I have said this here several times.
As for Hilary, I am *no* fan of hers–but the idea that she is whacking her critics is off base. Besides, she’d have to had me killed at least twice.
Peggy says
Thankfully you’re not big enough a threat to her.
I don’t trust her and I believe she is capable of ordering murder. Actually I believe she is not unique. There are too many convenient deaths around the world.