President Trump should end the fool’s errand in Afghanistan. The Islamic jihadis are not going to be definitively defeated; even if they’re pushed back, they will regroup and keep coming, because Islamic texts and teachings command them to do so. This doesn’t mean we should surrender. It means we should fight smarter. A Western-style republic is not going to be established. There is only going to be more bloodshed and waste until some President decides that is enough is enough, and withdraws. Mattis and the military should work on ways to ensure that jihad activity in Afghanistan is contained from outside the country.
“Gunmen attack Kabul’s Intercontinental Hotel,” by Robert Gearty, Fox News, January 20, 2018:
Security forces battled a group of three or four gunmen who stormed the popular western-style Intercontinental Hotel in the Afghan capital Kabul Saturday.
Details of the attack, including information on any casualties, were unclear but the attackers appeared to have included suicide bombers, Reuters reported, citing Afghan ministry spokesman Najib Danish for the information.
It was not immediately clear if there were any fatalities in the attack which took place around 9 p.m. local time.
Reuters reported that there was no immediate claim of responsibility for the attack, the latest in a long series to have hit Kabul.
U.S. officials in Kabul told Fox News the hotel was on fire. No other information was available.
Local media reported “insurgents” had entered the building and were holding people hostage. TOLONews reported heavy gunfire was ongoing.
An official at the Afghan spy agency told Agence France Presse that the attackers were “shooting at guests.”
A guest hiding in his room in the hotel told AFP he could hear gunfire.
“I don’t know if the attackers are inside the hotel but I can hear gunfire from somewhere near the first floor,” he said without giving his name. “We are hiding in our rooms. I beg the security forces to rescue us as soon as possible before they reach and kill us.”…
Indiana Tom says
President Trump should end the fool’s errand in Afghanistan.
Afghan government will not let US affiliated companies mine the abundant copper ore in the region. The mining rights are the domain of the Chinese.
So the US military will defend and aid the profitable Chinese mining companies at US taxpayer expense.
mortimer says
I disagree with ending the mission to modernize Afghanistan. Afghanistan will change as education changes it. There will be no going back to the previous tribalism. At the same time, Western governments must translate counterjihad books into the languages of all Muslim countries. This will gradually deprogram most Muslims right out of Islam.
gravenimage says
What signs have there been that the hideous Islamic hell hole of Afghanistan is changing, Mortimer?
Do you know that they have now put stoning back on the books?
Jimdandi says
Mortimer, you are whistling past the graveyard.
gravenimage says
Mortimer, do you really believe that if pious Muslims read book by “filthy Kuffar” like Robert Spencer that they are going to leave Islam? Most of them just send him death threats.
Anti-Jihad books–and sites like Jihad Watch–are intended to educate the Infidels about the threat of Islam. They are not aimed at Muslims.
If a near apostate were to read one and the leave Islam, well and good, Not something we should count on, though.
Chand says
Hope you are right, Mortimer
tgusa says
Ever see pictures of Afghanistan in the 1960s? They always regress. They just cant help it.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=afghanistan+1960s+pictures&qpvt=afghanistan+1960s+pictures&FORM=IGRE
Joy D. Brower says
Not only is that totally infuriating, but, sadly, just another sign of the deplorable times in Afghan! I guess US forces are content to protect the super profitable poppy/heroin trade, as I imagine some Americans – maybe even the US Gov’t itself! – are benefiting greatly from that despicable trade!!
gravenimage says
Oh, good grief. The idea that Jihad terror is the fault of the United States and that they are protecting the heroin trade is just sickening calumny.
Afghanistan had a real shot at freedom, but few there wanted it.
J D S says
Personally I think we should withdraw from Afghanistan and everywhere else in the Muslim world…completely!…No money…No Aid of any kind…No Embassies…..Isolate them…….till they wake up to what they have done to their own by following Islamic teachings and allowing Islam to master every facet of their daily lives…..Religion, Government, lifestyle, Everything!
Now is any of this going to happen? Answering my own question….Of course not!
Chand says
Without outside help many Muslim countries would quickly fall to the ruthless, fearless Jihadis and some would soon launch attacks globally again.
Bad idea, J D S.
` says
How is a place with stoning in its laws not *already* Jihadi?
gravenimage says
The above post is mine.
Frank Anderson says
Communists worldwide, and others, have played on the idea that the US does not have the stomach for real, bloody and sustained war. The first thing and most frequent thing suicidal, gutless, collaborating liberals ask is, “How long will this last?” Losing/giving up/surrender is not an available option if we wish to keep what is important to us. I refuse to believe our host, Mr. Spencer, is one of those liberals. Analysis of methods is always appropriate, but not a change of goal.
When an enemy is confronted who does not care about time, casualties and cost, undermining the will of those who should fight for victory (us) with the goal of negotiating a TEMPORARY peace, results similar to North/South Korea are to me guaranteed to follow. Negotiated peace is for sissys and cowards when people are being enslaved and slaughtered. How about a “negotiated” peace with Germany and Japan in WWII? Whatever the goals of Germany and Japan the 1400 year old goals of islam are infinitely worse. Negotiation, whether in the courtroom or battlefield, necessarily means that the “good” side surrenders something to “compromise” with an enemy who is ready to compromise nothing, only to see what can be talked away instead of forcefully conquered. Think about the currently famous Iran “nuclear agreement” “Everything” was conceded by the “Six” for nothing from Iran..
I think Vietnam is a good example of the process of sapping the will to fight with Communist led demonstrations, violence and insults to returning soldiers. . . The same people, and their children, and possibly even their grandchildren, are now still working to wear us out and cause our destruction. Only when terrorists are terrorized at the price of their terror will they stop. I believe if Goldwater had been elected instead of LBJ in 1964, the war would have been over in days or months, and would have concluded much differently, to the pleasure of the service members and their families who sacrificed, the millions executed by the Communists and the few who managed to escape. It is clear to me LBJ did not want to win: The war gave him too much power. “You can’t bomb an out-house in North Vietnam without my permission!” Consider how Obama hamstrung US forces against the “Islamic State” expecting a long term campaign, again to sap the will and treasure of the US. Look at the contrast in ONE year since Trump removed the limits.
“In it to win it!”
Indiana Tom says
Most of the mistakes of the Vietnam War has been applied to Afghanistan and Pakistan.
I could go into a long diatribe, but I will let the readers realizing the similarities and errors of Vietnam in relation to Afghanistan.
tgusa says
Absolutely. I was beginning to think I was the only one who saw this.
MFritz says
Vietnam also proves that you need to have a proper POLITICAL strategy first and foremost. And fighting the population instead of offering alternatives certainly doesn’t work. The South Vietnamese government was corrupt to the bone, violent, incompetent and thus hated by the people. These are very good reasons why the US didn’t win in Vietnam.
The best option for Afghanistan would have been to finance and support proper democratic alternatives against the taliban and the warlords. Instead – once again – they were instrumentalised. You cannot win if you consider yourself “smart” by hiring your MORTAL ENEMIES to support your cause.
But real democrats may have their own will and follow the people’s interests and not (only) the money, don’t they…
Frank Anderson says
MFritz, I cannot argue against your observations or reasoning. The war in Afghanistan depended too much on the strength and conduct of others instead of our own resources. We always want to “train and support” instead of getting the job done; and Instead of being the quick and deadly bloodbath it should have been for our enemies (following General George Patton’s wisdom), it is a slow, painful and expensive bloodbath for us, while we “feather the nests” of the warlords as they ply their pedophilic ways. How many ways can it end? How many of these translate into continued presence of training and support for those who would kill us at every opportunity and how many others not only provide peace there but end the threat here?
“He who pays the fiddler calls the tune” has no application until one truly controls the fiddler. When the fiddler, example Pakistan, can take all the money and resources we can throw, and do whatever it pleases (harbor OBL for about a decade), I can see several words that fit, Waste, Delay, Frustration, LOSS. War is about breaking the enemy’s ability and will to fight, nothing less. Peace is not the absence of war, but the absence of threat and presence of mutual security. Example North/South Korea. As long as perfect, final, complete, unchangeable islam exists in the form it has for 1400 years, we can expect no peace. In the alternative either we put them in terror of striking us or they put us in terror in our daily lives. There is no possibility of negotiating with people who live to kill and lie to counterparts. Look at Israel’s success at stopping most suicide bombing by killing Hamas leaders whenever a bomb went off. Terror works against terrorists, who are cowards in the first place. Why do you think they prefer unarmed and defenseless targets? Why do the “leaders” teach and send children to blow themselves up with bombs?
gravenimage says
Unfortunately, there were no “proper democratic alternatives” in Afghanistan at all.
Chand says
MFritz says: “The best option for Afghanistan would have been to finance and support proper democratic alternatives against the taliban and the warlords.”
The problem is that Afghanistan is a very backward place and medieval Islam and repressive customs has a total grip on the people. Therefore the Soviets, who were more experienced in dealing the other Muslim nations in the USSR, went straight for the jugular by invading the country and immediately targeting the clerics and mollah preachers. Militant atheism is the only way to defeat Islam. Lenin and Stalin banned Islam as did Mao. Unfortunately all other religions have to sacrificed on that altar too.
The Marxists realized the grave dangers in organized religions, especially Islam. They were the biggest enemies of fundamentalist Muslims. The cold war imperative, however, allied the Liberal Democratic powers of the West with the Muslim fundamentalists to defeat Communism. They foolishly believed that Communism was a bigger threat to the world than Islamism.
Chand says
sorry, typo: I meant…………………..”more experienced in dealing with the other Muslim nations of the USSR….”
gravenimage says
Frank, I take your point.
But what would winning in an Islamic crap hole like Afghanistan even look like? The vast majority in this 100% Muslim country want brutal Shari’ah law, and are willing to endlessly murder in order to get it.
We can contain them–to a point–but we cannot civilize them.
Jacqueline Robnett says
As I recall, China was in the background ready to send an endless supply of troops to aid North Vietnam. The same was true with the Korean “police action”. China was next door willing to send aid to North Korea. In Afghanistan today, neighboring Pakistan sends an endless supply of Taliban across the border for incursions. I’m sure each sitting U.S. President of the era pondered if it was worth killing and wounding U.S. troops to promote western values. The ideologues who are committed to “converting” Afghanistan to modern values should leave their comfortable lives in the U.S. and work among the Afghanis to help modernize them. You don’t have to join the military. Just learn the language and work among ordinary people. Bye Bye
Frank Anderson says
I believe if you read any history (I have read several) of the 1950-53 “police action” in Korea you will see that the Chinese sent hundreds of thousands of troops as soon as the “UN” troops reached the Yalu River boundary between North Korea and China. There was a disagreement between McArthur and Truman over whether the Yalu should be crossed to “finish” the job. Truman fired McArthur and elected to do the usual Democrat thing with endless war of attrition. When Eisenhower took office he was ready to do what was necessary to “terrorize the terrorists” and let it be known that nuclear weapons were “on the table.” Then the Chinese figured their loses would be too high and the fighting stopped.
When Nixon got fed up with the Paris “Peace” talks bickering over the table arrangement and other issues he ordered B-52 strikes that went on until North Vietnam ran out of surface to air missiles, whereupon they made a “deal”. The Democrat controlled Congress blocked Ford from keeping that deal in 1975 when the North broke it and now we have Vietnam (no North or South), less more than 3,000,000 executed after the US evacuation in Vietnam and Cambodia by the Communists. Ask any of the “boat people” and others who managed to escape.
They are willing to send “endless” people as long as they know we are limited in our will and resources. Hamas was willing to send “endless” suicide bombers into Israel as long as they thought Israel would just sit and suffer instead of killing Hamas leaders whenever a bomb went off. Do you want to put your life, freedom and future in the hands of evil, to any extent? It’s either surrender or fight until we win. We can fight there or fight here, perhaps because of traitors in our government, both places. There is no other choice. Ask any service member (especially the wounded) who has volunteered for multiple tours in Iraq, Syria or Afghanistan “Why are you willing to do it?” They have seen for themselves enough to show them it is worth it. I don’t give a “hoot in a hot place” about reforming the un-reformable, “harvesting mineral or other resources”, or spreading democracy and the rule of law. Human law means nothing to evil. This is a war for our freedom that was declared and has been waged for 1400 years against us. According to “them” our choices are to “convert, submit or die”. What about you?
gravenimage says
Frank Anderson wrote:
I don’t give a “hoot in a hot place” about reforming the un-reformable, “harvesting mineral or other resources”, or spreading democracy and the rule of law. Human law means nothing to evil. This is a war for our freedom that was declared and has been waged for 1400 years against us. According to “them” our choices are to “convert, submit or die”.
………………………………
Frank, in this case, what exactly are our goals in Afghanistan as you see it, if not to try to civilize them? We can’t get rid of everyone there that adheres to the creed of Islam, since this is virtually 100% of the population.
Frank Anderson says
GI, I have been involved in many lawsuits that courts frequently describe as wars. Usually my client and I were up against opponents with far more money and resources than we had. Sometime, especially in the most important case I have ever had, on which rested my very survival, which lasted well over 10 years, going through a number of courts up to the United States Supreme Court, the goal of winning was to leave an impression of terror that the “other” side would never want to tangle with me again.
I think in combat, or in the courtroom, “terrorize the terrorist”, make “him” fear offending us, make “him” afraid of harming or threatening us is the goal. Make the enemy so afraid of our willingness and ability to destroy “him” that he goes on to fight someone else, and leaves us alone. See George C. Scott in the first few minutes of Patton.
Massive damage inflicted with little exposure of the people we treasure is the method. Israel uses Hellfire precision guided missiles fired from drones and helicopters to make an impression on Hamas. The US used the credible threat of nuclear weapons in Korea and the MASSIVE use of B-52’s in Vietnam to make an impression. Then the Democrats cut the legs off the impression by refusing to allow Ford to use newly developed and vastly improved precision guided weapons that could have destroyed the North Vietnamese army in days. Make a real impression and keep it made with all the weapons and options we have. Indecision, lack of commitment to victory and doubt strengthen the enemy. “Nice guys finish last”; and this is not a “race” where we want to or can afford to finish anywhere but first. Always best wishes.
gravenimage says
Well, I agree, Frank. When Infidels first proved their technological and strategic superiority to Muslims, they did indeed back off. As a result, we were largely safe from Muslim incusions for over two hundred years.
Our real mistake was inviting Muslims in to our own civilized lands.
Frank Anderson says
GI, I find agreement with you satisfying and pleasurable.
gravenimage says
🙂
herbert says
I do not think the analogy you poist is apt. Germany and Japan were political/economic movements. Islam lost Spain in 1492. Islam is a theological movement and not susceptible to the same response. Witness Ben Laden and his obsession with the reconquest of Spain. Al Sis’s speech to the imams of Al Azar university was one of the most forward looking and challenging speech ever made by a Muslim and got nowhere. Islam is incapable of compromise. Like it or not, we are in war of civilizations. This has nothing to do with tactical mistakes. Either we win or we are destroyed or the converse — unless Islam undergoes a reformation and I see no evidence of that. Afghanistan has no use to use to us nor is it a real threat, it is a backwater and has always been one. Let the Chinese have the mining rights. AND THE PROBLEMS. We need to deal with Iran
Indiana Tom says
Afghanistan has no use to use to us nor is it a real threat, it is a backwater and has always been one. Let the Chinese have the mining rights.
Ralph Peters has stated it is just a terrorist hotel and an outhouse.
The only threat that Afghanistan is to us is the ability to train and support Jihadis on their way to the USA, although any Islamic failed state will do.
Still…..why are we defending the Chinese Mining Companies?
I sort of like Ralph Peters idea that if we cannot govern Afghanistan, we could still make it so that the Taliban cannot govern it either.
I liked the idea to draw out the Taliban into Afghanistan and then turn the place into a free fire zone trap and kill them.
Frank Anderson says
Indiana Tom, Afghanistan was chosen for a muslim roach incubator because it is so hard for us to reach. Look at a map. The resources we must spend just to supply our people and such allies as are there stinks. A big notice was made a few months ago when a single MOAB was used on a single target. A single C-130 can carry a single MOAB, the explosive equivalent of 10 times ordinary explosive and also the equivalent of a small tactical nuclear weapon. A single C-17 or C-5 can carry at least 6 and possibly 8. at almost twice the speed and far greater distance. (Suggest a visit to the Air Force Weapons Museum in Florida). If all we did was drop them on poppy fields we would destroy much of the financial foundation of the drug trade which finances the “Tal lee ban”. A few “insurgents” might be killed in the process; But “I’ll send flowers” (Jason Robards in St. Valentine’s Day Massacre). We should be dropping them by the dozens daily if not the hundreds, recalling the success of the B-52’s over North Vietnam that was squandered at the Paris “Peace” talks. Only when the terrorists are terrorized will the terror stop.
Chand says
Frank Anderson says: “We should be dropping them (MOABs) by the dozens daily if not the hundreds,”
But you can’t kill everyone.
And the problem is in the minds of some Muslims.
The preaching of Islam has to be stopped. Madrasas have to be closed. Koran should not to taught to children, preaching the ‘kill kafirs’ theology. How will one ban Islam without banning all the other religions?
Frank Anderson says
Instilling fear does not require killing all; Just enough to show that we can and will kill and destroy until it hurts, BAD. Doing it with bombs and robots instead of our people makes the persuasion even better than doing it in person. Until the terrorists are terrorized this will continue.
herbert says
OK, but I prefer fights that mean something. When we went into Afghanistan we ran out of bombing targets after a week I prefer a battle that has consequences for the other side. We have been there too long with nothing to show and no need for more American blood there in my view. We do not have unlimited resources
Frank Anderson says
Herbert, I suggest that as long as we think we have limited resources, particularly the WILL to win, we are already lost and might as well start digging our own graves. Islam declared war against us 1400 years ago; has never made peace; lives to make false promises to obtain advantage; and kills and enslaves daily. It has practiced torture, burning, throwing people from buildings and mass castration. I was not lent(loaned) the gift of life by our God to throw it away or waste it. Were you?
herbert says
To continue Under the progressive liberals and the Democrats will we with our “superior” civilization share the fate of Constantinople? http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/blog/genius-byzantium-reflections-forgotten-empire
Jay says
I believe the backlash against the dhimmi leaders in Western governments has started, it started in areas of Europe and it has spread to the United States. Time will tell if this movement will spread to the other Anglo-sphere countries. Political correctness is very entrenched in the culture of Anglo-sphere unfortunately.
StellaSaidSo says
I agree, Jay, the backlash against the dhimmi leaders has started, but they (or – more accurately – their globalist handlers) are fighting back, increasing censorship and surveillance, while continuing to call for yet more migrants. Canada is in deep trouble under Trudeau. Australians are waking up, but we don’t have a genuine alternative to the current gov’t (which is led by a globalist), the opposition being equally committed to Islamisation. Political correctness is very entrenched, the national broadcaster is a propaganda mill, there are Muslim NO GO zones in several major cities, and any criticism of immigration policy, or of Islam is shut down PDQ. In my state, Victoria, we have a communist Premier. Somali and Sudanese gangs terrorise Melbourne, and in 2017 we experienced two lethal vehicle jihad attacks. State and local Gov’t are currently (and very quietly) settling hundreds of Muslim ‘refugees’ in regional cities, facilitated by local churches, which are infested with virtue-signalling dhimmis. I watched this scenario unfold in Europe and UK. The pattern here is the same.
CRUSADER says
Best to vacation stay at an AirBnB from now on….
(say that five times fast and it sounds like Arab&Bee)
Remember911 says
The old containment strategy. It did work, after a fashion, to contain the Soviet Union. At least until Ronald Reagan and the neocons outspent the Soviets militarily until they had to give up.
I used to think that this should be our strategy vis-a-vis Islam, too. Now, I’m not so sure anymore. Consider that tens of millions of the enemy are already in our countries. How many Soviet-directed communists had infiltrated us during the Cold War?
Something vastly more radical is required. Odds are, though, we don’t have the will to do what is needed. Another Dark Age is coming, it will last centuries. What we can do is manufacture time capsules, messages in a bottle that tell future generations that the world was not always under the boot of Islam.
The more mirrors of Jihad Watch, the better the chances some of them will be preserved. The website’s very crudeness and primitivity enhances its chances of still being readable in the year 2218, or 2418.
gravenimage says
Containment of the Muslim world kept us largely safe from Jihad for almost two hundred years, after the West outstripped the Muslim world technologically. It is only when we foolishly began inviting in ravening Muslims that we wound up at risk again.
Stop further Muslim immigration, and start deporting. Start with the most obvious Jihadists.
Frank Anderson says
GI, the deciding factor to victory is not resources or technology, but the WILL to win. Everything else is window dressing and excuses for losing and giving up. Right behind the WILL is the stewardship of the available resources and the sound judgment of choices of technology that will turn the fight to victory.
Best illustrative examples to me: WWII Germany. How many people and how much resources were wasted killing Jews instead of fighting the war? Why were millions of people wasted by killing them instead of maintaining them with proper food and care and employing them as labor? Why was the UK not invaded and conquered with far less losses than were taken in the Soviet Union? Why was the Me-262, the first potentially operational jet fighter that could have swept Allied bombers from the sky delayed 18 months? Why was Malta allowed to remain an unsinkable British aircraft carrier from which to strangle the Germans in Africa? Why were resources scattered to every wild idea in sight with little analysis on projects that were at least borderline ludicrous at the time and circumstances? Right now it is safe to assume on plenty of evidence available that there is no real technological advantage for us infidels. We do have a resource advantage for a while. DO WE HAVE THE WILL?
gravenimage says
That *is* the big question, Frank. We could end Muslim immigration, deport at least the most obvious Jihadists, monitor Mosques, crack down hard on any plots, and end most of our problems with Islam within a year or two
The problem is that we do not have the will–many still do not even acknowledge that there is a threat from Islam.
I think that *can* change–but until it does we will be in increasing peril from Islam.
Frank Anderson says
Again, with honor and pleasure, agreed.
gravenimage says
Thanks.
Karen says
I’m finding all the discussion here interesting, while reeling from the fact that Kabul has a hotel.
gravenimage says
This hotel was built in 1969, when Kabul was about as civilized as it was ever going to get.
http://www.intercontinentalkabul.com/
I believe it was built by Infidels, back when things seemed semi-plausibly hopeful there.
Karen says
Interesting, and upon reflection, rather poignant. It’s beautiful and must have brought hope for better days at one time. Thanks for that information.
gravenimage says
Yes, this is sad, Karen. This hotel was built at a time when it seemed possible for Muslim states to become civilized modern nations.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Kabul was once ‘the’ place to head for if you were young, adventurous and perhaps liked to smoke pot sometimes.
http://www.messynessychic.com/2014/03/11/road-trip-to-afghanistan-snapshots-from-the-lost-hippie-trail/
Things have changed a bit.
gravenimage says
Just a brief window where Infidels could do this in relative safety, LeftisruiningCanada.
I had a friend–a young American Jewish woman–who wanted to try this in the late ’70s. She mentioned it to friends in Israel, and they were all alarmed and cautioned her not to go alone. At first she thought they were all “uptight”, but after hearing enough stories decided it might not be the best idea.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Yeah, perhaps it was never all that safe for Jewish people to head out there?
From accounts of Kabul etc from that time, it sounds a bit like pre ‘revolution’ Iran or Beirut.
Really too bad that real islam made a come back.
Frank Anderson says
Left. . ., I have some honored and treasured Christian friends who thought they could talk muslims into following Jesus through skillful conversation. I begged them to learn more about islam before literally putting their lives at risk. I think they did. Wishful thinking is not exclusive: I had it too after hearing from GWB the “religion of peace” lie. Fortunately I learned the error before it hurt.
LeftisruiningCanada says
hi Frank,
If you’re referring to some of the exchanges with ibrahim on here, then please don’t think i’m expecting any kind of positive response from him.
Plus, being a Calvinist, i know that it’s impossible to persuade anyone into becoming a Christian.
It’s mainly for the sake of learning a little bit about what muslim dawa is made up of, and how worthless most of it is, and to avoid leaving such lies unanswered while i have the time to answer.
Thanks for the heads up though 🙂
gravenimage says
Yes–Ibrahim itace muhammed regularly exposes the savagery of Islam in his posts. He also gives us a glimpse of the diseased Muslim mindset.
Frank Anderson says
Honored Lady, I I M is this site’s answer to the “iron shiek”, “nikolai volkov”, “erich von Stroheim”, “John Heidenreich” and “rusev” in wrestling. Without obnoxious villains, the conversation might be boring. Obviously I have been a fan of wrestling all my life. Sometime it takes a villain to show the hero’s quality, and to teach why villains should be rejected as examples for civilized people..
Frank Anderson says
Left. . ., my friends are missionaries who take several weeks off from their normal really hard work to go “there”, where the law you and I expect to protect us does not exist, and where the “other” law rules. In my effort to alert them to the dangers of their plan, I lent (loaned) them a *large* catalog case full of the books I have read, hoping they would at least look at the covers and possibly read a few. “There” “skillful conversation” can get you killed with little or no hope of assistance or protection; and could easily trigger the killing of the entire missionary team. Remembering how uninformed, delusional, and foolish I was before becoming informed, I could not sit by in silence while these honorable but misinformed people got into trouble they did not deserve. It seems I follow an example of Jesus, crossing all sorts of lines and boundaries to include friends with many labels. I believe it is a healthy approach for me. Best wishes.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Well, i do commend your friends in their concern for the lost. Christ did say that his followers would be hated, as he was hated. Folks tried to kill Him on a few occasion too.
underbed cat says
The ladies in pink hats marched today, do they understand sharia law.? The media says we defeated isis in Afghanistan, their pool of fighters is not limited and they I fear are getting instructions from the leader of the democratic resistance is that possible? The young men in our military now have to rescue those hiding for their life in Afghanistan as jihadi fighters attack a hotel today. Saudi Arabia is the heart of Islam they execute woman/ men in the square are the pink hats aware,do they know about the brutality of Islam.? Why are they not protesting this instead of Trump? Iranian children see horrors in the Square as punishment of those who do not follow the Quran do the pink hats know this? Who was in Las Vegas the month of Aug, ? Who owns parts of the upper floors of the building of the Mandalay. Who purged the adjectives which makes fighting a war in the ME difficult and why did the pink hats idol not allow the information to be used. The immigration problem allows the enemy doctrine to flourish do they know why, and what is taught in the mosques all of which teach the Quran and that is the root of terror do the pink hats know this? Please pink hats educate yourself, as exmuslims have stated it did not take long after the islamic revolution of Iran to go within 30 days of control to kill many of those who did not submit or convert to Islam know this and save a life.
gravenimage says
Yes, I live in Oakland, and while having a cup of coffee at a cafe saw dozens of these silly pussy hatted naifs on their way home. Pretty much none of them have single clue about the threat of Islam.
underbed cat says
Robert Spencer I wish this was not happening, but this first year of President’s Trumps administration, being new to the power of the office, unaware of the thick mud of the swamp was actually heavy cement.. and in a panic he may have lost some of his clear vision in order to survive the resistance and misinformation that came from all the departments of the government. I guess we are aware of the purged information about islam but he may have put too much trust in a military general who is himself in need of expertise of a former scholar of the red pill briefs Stephen Coughlin and Robert Spencer or a conversation with General Ace to prepare for the opposition party of the deep state after they were able to stealthy attack Flynn and his administration….chaos what else could have happened when he broke into the center of a financial muslim brotherhood influence and the hands were dirty for many. He should pull back from constant reaction and concentrate on the objective or learn as much as he can from you or Stephen Coughlin about enemy we have within the walls of the center of our nation. Hopefully he will have a easier next year and calm down show his intelligence with smooth reserve and react calmly hard to do but necessary. And Go Trump. So his first instincts will rise again. Islam knows no borders and should be shut down since the mosques teach the Quan, a warfare doctrine within the walls of the mosques. This religion is a deception, it is the source of isis and every terror group, it is a way of life kept in check with violence, a political movement the left has foolishly joined and is a misnomer for these ideas he may be unaware of without the knowledge of the organizations, the deception and slander laws of sharia. The Prince he trusts cannot be trusted he follows sharia. he talks of fighting corruption but that means not following Islam, not killing. The old democratic friends are holding on to their power not his friendship. Let them go,rise above. Just thoughts from a patriot.
StellaSaidSo says
Good post, underbedcat.
And I endorse your recommendation of White House counter-terrorism strategist Stephen Coughlin’s work, especially his CATASTROPHIC FAILURE: BLIND-FOLDING AMERICA IN THE FACE OF JIHAD. A hefty tome (788 pages) but a thorough one, exposing the nature and extent of the jihad threat, and the attempts by the Muslim Brotherhood to conceal the truth. The MB was behind the sacking of Major Coughlin by Obama in 2011, along with the subsequent removal of all references to Islamic jihad in the training of all personnel tasked with bringing terrorists to justice.
gravenimage says
Afghanistan: Islamic jihadis storm Kabul’s Intercontinental Hotel
President Trump should end the fool’s errand in Afghanistan.
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Yes, he should. You can’t civilize pious Muslims, and we should stop wasting our blood and treasure trying.
tgusa says
No American should ever be sent to fight and perhaps die in a war where that war does not benefit the American people and this one never will. It is arrogance and irresponsibility by the powers that are that has led to the death of so many good Americans. I dare anyone to explain to me what this 16 year war has done to benefit Americans or in the defense of the US Constitution.
Chand says
The US would not want to see hard core, global Jihadis being trained in Afghanistan again with impunity. Without outside, especially American and European, help that nation could quickly fall to the Jihadis.
tgusa says
Agree but also Disagree. It is a magnet, a war in the middle of no where on their terms, I prefer our small wars to be ones where we appear where the enemy least expects us, annihilate them and then disappear, until next time.
Frank Anderson says
There is a certain efficiency and effectiveness in your thinking. But *they* choose where they set up their roach factories. And they set them up where they are hard for us to reach. One roach factory anywhere is one too many.
tgusa says
Agreed.
gravenimage says
Afghanistan is a Shari’ah state–it has stoning on the books. It is not much different from the Taliban as it is.
Frank Anderson says
Remembering approximately 3,000,000 people murdered after the US abandoned Vietnam and Cambodia, because collaborators in Congress refused to allow President Ford to keep the promises of the evacuation, and the ridiculous developments in Iraq following BHO’s evacuation, we should think very carefully before too many changes are made. I do not care about “saving” them from their hideous islam today, I do not care about *taking* their resources and property. I do not want to take their lives or lose those of our treasure.
To leave them intact to continue finding and building ways to attack us is to me completely unacceptable. It is vital to create such a sense of terror that they will never recover the will, ability or interest in attacking us again, whatever it takes. I have written earlier a view widely held, but with which some differ, that millions (possibly tens of millions) of lives were saved in Japan, both Japanese and Allied, by the use of the atomic bombs. Hundreds of thousands, to millions more were saved at the threat of nuclear weapons in Korea. We now have non-nuclear weapons that if properly used, would be just as effective as the nuclear weapons we used in Japan and offered to use in Korea. No not general bombing of civilian targets, I am talking only about carefully selected enemy targets to totally destroy the enemy groups’ ability to fight, and to kill as many of them as possible with little or no loss of our treasure (people) as possible.
One MOAB with expensive limited production volume costs about as much as a single US military person in Afghanistan for a year, about a million dollars each. One MOAB made an impression. How much would hundreds, much cheaper because of mass production? And then, a lot of napalm for the de-populated poppy fields to clean them out. That way nobody can fuss about using napalm on people because they are already dead from the MOAB. Or, find a replacement for Agent Orange that avoids its problems and spray, spray, spray, once the fields have been cleansed of people. Imagine a dozen or so C-17’s spraying herbicide as was done by C-130’s in Operation Market Garden (do I have that name correctly?) in Vietnam. Any other ideas or suggestions?
gravenimage says
Thanks for your reply, Frank. You wrote:
Remembering approximately 3,000,000 people murdered after the US abandoned Vietnam and Cambodia, because collaborators in Congress refused to allow President Ford to keep the promises of the evacuation, and the ridiculous developments in Iraq following BHO’s evacuation, we should think very carefully before too many changes are made.
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Frank, while South Vietnam was often corrupt, it was not Communist. It was still a *much* better place to live than the North. This was, in my opinion, a war were not allowed to win.
But in Afghanistan, the people we are supporting have views that barely difffer from that of the Taliban, in most cases–and many of the pious Muslims there actually support the Taliban. Karzai openly reached out to the Taliban. I used to think, “well, at least they aren’t stoning women there anymore”. But now the government we have supported put it back on the books. We have to ask what we are fighting for there at this point.
More:
I do not care about “saving” them from their hideous islam today, I do not care about *taking* their resources and property. I do not want to take their lives or lose those of our treasure.
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Frank, I have *never* advocated taking resources or property from Muslim countries–where did you get that idea? I just want Muslims to stop attacking us.
I understand your not wanting to save them from Islam–for myself, I don’t believe it is possible for us to do so.
But if they are imposing Shari’ah law on our dime–which they are–then why are we still in Afghanistan? And was long as we are there, pious Muslims there will continue to murder our troops.
More:
To leave them intact to continue finding and building ways to attack us is to me completely unacceptable. It is vital to create such a sense of terror that they will never recover the will, ability or interest in attacking us again, whatever it takes. I have written earlier a view widely held, but with which some differ, that millions (possibly tens of millions) of lives were saved in Japan, both Japanese and Allied, by the use of the atomic bombs. Hundreds of thousands, to millions more were saved at the threat of nuclear weapons in Korea. We now have non-nuclear weapons that if properly used, would be just as effective as the nuclear weapons we used in Japan and offered to use in Korea. No not general bombing of civilian targets, I am talking only about carefully selected enemy targets to totally destroy the enemy groups’ ability to fight, and to kill as many of them as possible with little or no loss of our treasure (people) as possible.
One MOAB with expensive limited production volume costs about as much as a single US military person in Afghanistan for a year, about a million dollars each. One MOAB made an impression. How much would hundreds, much cheaper because of mass production? And then, a lot of napalm for the de-populated poppy fields to clean them out. That way nobody can fuss about using napalm on people because they are already dead from the MOAB. Or, find a replacement for Agent Orange that avoids its problems and spray, spray, spray, once the fields have been cleansed of people. Imagine a dozen or so C-17’s spraying herbicide as was done by C-130’s in Operation Market Garden (do I have that name correctly?) in Vietnam. Any other ideas or suggestions?
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Interesting. I’m not sure that we could defeat them outright, as we did with the Japanese. I think they’d go on waging violent Jihad, even if they were living in caves. After all, bin Laden was living in a cave while plotting 9/11.
Personally, I think we need to re-isolate Dar-al-Islam–that kept us largely safe for centuries.
Certainly I agree with you that what we are doing now is worse than useless. Always good to talk to you, Frank.
Frank Anderson says
GI, one of the disadvantages of my long-winded posts is the answers that come back. I do not know how to print your post so I had to make notes:
1. It is an honor and pleasure to write with you. I hope to keep it that way for both of us; and we may be helping others see something they might otherwise miss.
2. I suggest “supporting” may not be the best choice of words for the “allies” who engage in conduct that is outrageous and vile to our sensitivities, yet conform to “their” teaching. Remember the Sargent who was severely disciplined for interrupting an Afghan officer raping a boy. Our goal is to eliminate the threat to us, whatever it takes and whoever needs to be eliminated in the process.
3. Never said, intended to say or thought that you raised the issue of taking resources. In Vietnam Communist collaborators in the US, I was here and I saw and heard, accused the US of wanting to “take” resources. Then in Iraq, anti-war rioters raised hell about our wanting to steal Iraqi oil. Same S-it Different Day in Afghanistan today. Another contributor on another thread/story raised that issue.
4. Defeat is breaking the will to fight, The US was *defeated* in Vietnam more by collaborators in this country, especially including Congress, instead of the paltry North Vietnamese military. Japan was defeated and millions of lives were saved by showing them the fight had graduated from something they could stand to something they could not. Germany was defeated by total conquest, devastation and occupation, with maximum killing to the end, as Japan would have been had the bombs not been used. Whether we fight and do our damage in Afghanistan, or New York, we will fight until either we lose our will or we teach “them” they will not win. As little as I think of New York and many other “Blue” Liberal-dominated states, I would prefer to do the fighting in Afghanistan and elsewhere outside the US.
Please, if I missed any issues, point them out.
May we see victory for us!
Frank Anderson says
GI, addendum: One of the reasons I carry at the ready so many quotes from movies is that among about 20 trades and professions I am a movie projectionist. (Paid about a third of my way through law school by running movies) If you ever get a chance to see the Lou Diamond Phillips movie Route 666, notice the colloquy (exchange) of the federal agents in the SUV as they leave the drinking joint in the opening scene. They discuss the issue of who is helping who(m). I think you will see a good illustration of my priorities. I have friends who have served in many ways in the military from WWII on, and treasure every breath they have taken, and will take. I also treasure all the people who are serving and will serve at risk of their lives and health for me. I have no interest whatever in putting them at risk of as much as a hangnail over some of the slime in Afghanistan or anywhere else. If I am unfit to go, at least I can help win.
JAK says
Why would anyone go there or stay there and not be armed to the teeth or joined at the hip with a crew of contractor body guards. What kind of money are they making to warrant such risk?
gravenimage says
Most of those murdered–unsurprisingly–were Westerners. Mostly journalists and those trying to help Afghanistan. Grimly, a lost cause.
underbed cat says
I agree 100 % Robert Spencer, President Trump “should end the fool’s errand in Afghanistan”, we don’t need any more young men lost or injured and it is foolish for the statement we finished off Isis..that can grow out of the 1.5 billion who follow Islam in a matter of days. McMaster may be blinding him to the truth about Islam, there is no moderate Islam. The commands to slay us non muslims is written in the verses of the Quran……the warfare doctrine of sharia and jihad terror is taught in all mosques in the U.S. and Islamic schools. Islam declared war on the U.S. before 9/11 we responded by thinking they live within borders….they are pulling from 57 muslim countries and sending soldiers as refugees to live in all the states. Get them out of here first or we wil be history…..ignore the threats of the Democrats.
Baucent says
Time the West abandoned Afghanistan. With porous borders, Islamic Jihadists entrenched in the autonomous tribal regions over the border in Pakistan, it’s similar to trying to stop the communist insurgency in Vietnam. An un-winable war.
Prabh108 says
YogRishi Baba Ramdev also hates hotels. (me too hate hotel) Hotel is potentially dangerous to the women folk and hotel are mostly non-veg. Hotel-casino we hate due to history of India. (Gambling was cause of infamous War of venerable Bhagavad-Gita.
However we In India will get rid of hotel Ahimsically through Ghar Wapsi.
In India we have billeting and Dharmshala institution.
Maybe hotel good for Western Civilization.
In greater historical India, we all despise hotel.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Now you mention it, hotels do seem to be the center of all evil in the world.
gravenimage says
Prabh108 wrote:
YogRishi Baba Ramdev also hates hotels. (me too hate hotel)
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You *hate hotels*? Good grief. I won’t ask what you do if you travel–or do you hate travel, as well?
As for YogRishi Baba Ramdev, he actually either owns a chain of hotels, or at least has a chain named after him:
“Hotel Baba Ramdev is a perfect place to stay in Ramdevra”
http://www.hotelbabaramdev.com/
“Hotel Baba Ramdev, Sirohi”
https://www.makemytrip.com/hotels/hotel_baba_ramdev-details-sirohi.html
I would say that perhaps he just has a rather pervese sense of humor, save for the fact that he has said that he would *behead* those who refuse to chant “Bharat Mata ki Jai” were it not for Indian law. Given this, I rather doubt he has a sense of humor…