Bernie Farber is a self-described “social justice advocate” and former Executive Director of the Mosaic Institute, an organization that defines its mission as a “national platform that amplifies the voices of Canada’s diverse communities.”
A valid question to be asked is: are Christian communities included?
In a tirade published by the Toronto Star, Farber refers to Canada Christian College in a most offensive, non-inclusive manner, unbefitting anyone claiming to respect diversity and inclusion. He refers to the college as “the Bible-thumping home of ultra conservative evangelicals.”
“Bible-thumping”? Would Farber ever use terms such as “Qur’an-thumping,” “Hadith-thumping,” or “Torah-thumping”? The latter is most unlikely, as Farber himself is Jewish. But he uses “Bible-thumping” with impunity.
Imagine how this will add to the injury of Christians from countries where they are persecuted, particularly since the Mosaic Institute emphasizes “imported trauma” in advocating for Syrian refugees and other immigrants from Muslim countries. The Christian persecution watchdog, Open Doors, just released data showing that “215 million Christians faced the most severe persecution in 2017, resulting in 3,066 deaths and 1,020 rapes mainly targeting women.” While While North Korea tops the list of the world’s worst countries for Christians, in second place and occupying every place down to number 14 are majority-Muslim countries, with the single exception of Eritrea.
In the article below, Bernie Farber’s acrimony is palpable as he stereotypes people as “Islamophobic” bigots. Speaking for myself only (whom he mentions), I oppose the “Islamophobia” agenda, but I support fighting anti-Muslim bigotry. To spell it out, anti-Muslim bigotry, like all bigotry, is wrong. “Islamophobia” has a different meaning: it aims to curb the freedom of speech to silence speech that is deemed offensive to Islam.
Farber — who prides himself on being the son of Holocaust survivors — should appreciate more than most the role of Islamic anti-Semitism in the Holocaust, given the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem’s pact with Hitler and ongoing anti-Semitic efforts to delegitimize and ultimately destroy the state of Israel. He should also recognize the deep-seated hatred that Islamic supremacists have for Jews, enough to try to deny them a Jewish state. Instead, Farber is a water-carrier for the National Council of Canadian Muslims (CAIR-CAN), and scapegoats Canada Christian College and “Bible-thumping, ultra-conservative evangelicals.”
Farber also unjustly accuses “a group of parents” who “attended a Peel School Board meeting to denounce a Muslim prayer room established at a local high school. One participant ripped up a Qu’ran.” He lies by omission as he fails to tell the full story of why the parents were upset. To read the story, click HERE.
We can hope that Canada Christian College will challenge this fake on his anti-Christian, openly discriminatory insults to “Bible-thumping” evangelicals, whom he disparaged in the name of diversity and inclusion.
“We must overcome Islamophobia in 2018”, by Bernie Farber & Mira Sucharov, Toronto Star, January 2, 2018:
With the New Year upon us, Canadians are preparing to mark the first anniversary of the Quebec Mosque massacre. Jan. 29, 2017 stands as the only time in Canadian history when a gunman walked into a house of worship to murder those at prayer.
On that day, Alexandre Bissonnette allegedly entered la Grande Mosque in Quebec City, where 58 people prayed. Police have charged Bissonnette with murdering six and injuring 19.
Substitute synagogue for mosque, and, as the former CEO of Canadian Jewish Congress, one of us (Bernie Farber) had spent decades fearing just this kind of event. The next morning, Farber, by then the head of Mosaic Institute in Toronto, picked up the phone to reach out to Muslim leaders across the country.
The other author (Mira Sucharov) taught her Israeli-Palestinian Relations course the next morning about rights-violations and violence across the globe. Stunned by the news of the mosque massacre, only later did she manage to address it properly with her class, a class that included several Muslim-Canadians.
Our work is not complete. Since then, a palpable sense of fear has gripped the Muslim community where it continues to hover.
For a short time after the Jan. 29 massacre, Canadians did the right thing. Politicians, faith leaders and ordinary citizens sent offerings of condolences. Faith groups stood in solidarity with Muslim Canadians, the grassroots of Toronto’s Jewish community held “rings of peace” at local mosques where hundreds formed human circles of comfort.
But all too soon, Islamophobia was back with a vengeance. Barely two weeks after the tragic massacre, the hard-right Rebel Media outlet organized hundreds of individuals at Canada Christian College, the Bible-thumping home of ultra conservative evangelicals, to rail against Motion 103.
This motion was a simple statement that passed later that spring in the House of Commons denouncing Islamophobia and all other forms of religious and racial discrimination. Protesters called M-103 a “blasphemy.” Some shouted “Ban Islam” and “Islam is Evil.” Others carried signs declaring “Say No to Islam.”
A few weeks later, anti-Muslim rallies were held in front of downtown mosques where bigots and Islamophobes spewed hatred.
And then, in March, a group of parents attended a Peel School Board meeting to denounce a Muslim prayer room established at a local high school. One participant ripped up a Qu’ran.
In April, one of us (Bernie Farber), in a column for the Toronto Star, urged faith leaders across Toronto to come together at a press conference to loudly and passionately denounce Islamophobia. That invitation was met by an eerie silence, as Islamophobic actions continued apace.
In June, another group of parents picketed John Fraser Secondary School in Mississauga to denounce Islam and prayer rooms. Children were bullied and intimidated on their way to classes by demonstrators wearing t-shirts proclaiming “Stop Islam,” while others screamed racist slogans.
In mid December, Pamela Geller, described by the Southern Poverty Law Center as “the anti-Muslim movement’s most visible and flamboyant figurehead,” spoke at Toronto’s Canada Christian College under the auspices of the far-right Jewish Defence League.
A couple of weeks before that, the same JDL premiered the viciously Islamophobic film Killing Europe at the Toronto Zionist Centre. The same film had been banned earlier in November from being shown at the Ottawa Public Library. And recently, Christine Douglass-Williams, a board member of the Canadian Race Relations Foundation, was ousted for Islamophobic commentary.
It was as though the Jan. 29 killings had never happened.
Peel police have since charged one of the Islamophobic protest leaders, Kevin Johnston, with promoting hatred. Still, not enough has been done.
Facing down this kind of unsavoury opposition, we took to these pages in October to lay out the case for why M-103 is necessary.
Data from Statistics Canada reveals uneven progress. After a rise in hate-crimes against Muslims in 2015, the number fell slightly in 2016. But the mosque attack shows we cannot be complacent.
As the Jan. 29 anniversary approaches, Canadians must be silent no longer. We all know that no gender, sexual, religious, ethnic or racial minority is safe as long as another is not…..
warren raymond says
Bernie Farber is a POS by any standards. this guy is a self-hating Jew who proudly rejects kosher food and sucks the toes of Mohammedans. If the Jewish community in Canada had any self-respect they would shun him.
mortimer says
Farber hates fascism, but he LOVES ISLAMO-FASCISM.
Question for Bernie Farber: IS IT STILL FASCISM WHEN MUSLIMS DO IT?
mortimer says
Mr. Farber, are you giving a FREE PASS to Islamo-Fascism? Yes or no?
gravenimage says
Not surprisingly, when a Muslim hate preacher got caught preaching violence against Jews, he reached out to dhimmi tool Bernie Farber to whitewash things for him:
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/10/22/a-toronto-imam-was-accused-of-hate-preaching-against-jews-but-that-wasnt-the-whole-story.html
Try not to gag on the sickening Islamophilic tone of this story–especially uncritically swallowing this calling for the murder of Jews having been a bad translation
The article also characterizes the Counter Jihad as an “extreme anti-Muslim ideology”. Apparently they believe that if you are anti-Jihad you are anti-Muslim. If Islam was really peaceful, why would they say that?
PABLO says
Bernie Farber is just a sad little man in more ways than one. Farber will sell his Jewish sisters and brothers out; similar to George Soros and would not have any problems sleeping at night.
Andy says
Hey Bernie Farbe I hope you have had time to look at the latest news, If you can break away from your labeling all us Bible thumping Christians Islamaphobic!!!
People are getting tired of this s**t from you lefties now Bernie, Better get your facts straight next time A-hole!
P.S. Also tell the P.M. and the rest of the gang the “message”.while you have the time to do it because I think you guys will be out of a job next election. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgimG_9Fh2s&t=3s
simpleton1 says
That 11 year old girl seems to be living in a dangerous doctrinaire home.
Social Welfare needs to look into this and most likely remove her from that home for her safety.
That is what they do for other children. !
One law for all !
David says
Taqiyya, at an early age. No tears from the mother? Where is the cut-up hijab? This story reminds me of the ‘babies on the floor’ story from Iraq.
Canada is on a slippery slope. Bernie Farber should be made an ‘honorary’ muslime.
J D S says
Yes even Satan would not keep him awake. Maybe he is in bed with Satan.
Lydia Church says
Sounds like he is a “Christophobe”!!!
I’m proud to be a Bible “thumping” conservative Evangelical… CHRISTIAN!!!
Lydia Church says
Oh, and let me add: ultra, ULTRA conservative.
HAAA!
Andy says
AMEN
StellaSaidSo says
The dumber the idiot, the more useful he is to his own worst enemy.
Egon Speneder says
Obviously this individual hasn’t read the Qur’an or the Hadith nor is familiar with Sharia Law, because if he had read the basic tenants of Islam he should be able to see the vast difference between these two religions,; but then I doubt he has read the New Testament. As a “Jew” (so he claims to be), he seems to be somewhat confused, as Christianity is more compatible with Judaism than Islam is, but then I doubt this man is even familiar with the Torah! Ignorance seems to be the prerequisite to political correctness!
mortimer says
Farber’s family was persecuted in WWII. Farber has had a distinguished career helping the vulnerable. He has let his anti-fascism go to his head to the point that he sees fascists wherever there aren’t any.
Farber has entered a delusional world where he cannot see the REAL, GENUINE FASCISM that is in ISLAM.
Farber is in fact giving Islamo-fascism a FREE PASS and at the same time he is attacking those who are opponents of SUPREMACIST, FASCIST ISLAM.
Carol says
Toronto Star should be ashamed of publishing such oblivious gut-rot. Farber is, of course, out playing attack dog only two weeks after Pamela Geller’s highly praised speech at Canada Christian College:
Pamela Geller Speaks At The Canada Christian College
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6krVIrAGGk
Ray Jarman says
Egon,
I doubt if Farber has even read the Old Testament and if he has, he must have skipped Isiah since his teachings could have been part of the New Testament. Isiah prophesized the coming of Jesus Christ as the savior and through whom all would be able to return to our Heavenly Father. I have a Jewish acquaintance with whom I worked at the Embassy in Maseru, Lesotho who was against almost everything Jewish. I once queried him about it but he would never actually provide an answer but I knew just how liberal he was (probably still is) and when I asked him specifically about the Holocaust and Jewish persecution throughout the Middle East, he said that basically they had it coming. I was dumbfounded to say the least as this individual had a Masters Degree in Political Science.
Kepha says
Worked at the Embassy in Maseru? Whose embassy? Are you former foreign service?
This reminds me of my college days. Down the hall there were two Jewish guys rooming together; one a neo-Chasid/Ba’al T;shuvah and the other highly secular. The latter would deliberately leave the lights on Friday nights when he went out for some good times so the latter couldn’t get to sleep, since turning lights on and off was equivalent to making a fire on the Sabbath. Some may find such scrupulousness as funny, but back then, I saw it as someone trying to live a life of integrity and respected it, and even acted as “Shabbes Goy” for my neighbor.
Your former co-worker, by the way, strikes me as someone who twisted himself into knots trying to be EmCeePeeCee. And please don’t think that all of us political scientists are like that.
Ray Jarman says
Kepha, I worked at the U.S. Embassy. Since I have several undergraduate degrees, BS in Computer Science, U. of Pacific and a BS Government Administration (would have been a BA in Political Science or English Liturature but since the University of Maryland did not have enough students to conduct an obligatory fourth semester German Language class for almost two years and I did not wish to endanger a 3.86 GPA, I accepted the BS which in the long run turned out fine) and at the last two or three postings, I was the Information Management Officer but later in Maputo, I was in the Political office for three months. As I told my colleagues in the political section, I could perform their jobs but they were woefully unprepared to do mine. At State, to be a political officer full time one must pass an oral examination after performing well on the written portion which I did extremely well but having had friends at State while I was posted to NATO while in the US Army, several told me about the left leanings at the oral board of examiners so I chose to work at another section within State. I hope that Rex Tillerson will clean out the hen house but I am not holding my breath but at least Pat Kennedy and Michelle Bond were forced out as both were completely incompetent and I hold Kennedy responsible for Benghazi as well as Mrs. Clinton and Hussein. From Maseru, my Jewish friend was posted to the embassy in New Delhi and he is probably tearing at his clothing after the president formerly acknowledged Jerusalem as the Israeli capital.
Max Publius says
“In second place and occupying every place down to number 14 are majority-Muslim countries, with the single exception of Eritrea”
62.9% of the population of Eritrea adheres to Christianity, 36.6% follows Islam, and 0.4% practices folk religion.
Just a wild guess, but me thinks Eritrean Christians are not being attacked by Eritrean folk religionists, but by Eritrean Muslim supremacist jihadists? What think you?
Kepha says
There’s also persecution of Evangelicals by the Orthodox Tewahedo.
gravenimage says
Yep.
R Russell says
When the time comes for him to convert or die, I am sure he will convert for I don’t think he has the back bone to die.
Terry Gain says
As we approach the first anniversary of the Quebec Mosque shootings we don’t yet know what motivated the shooter, but this hasn’t stopped Muslims from exploiting this event. In the meantime, there are dozens of Muslim terrorist groups who are above criticism and each month around the world at least 1,000 people are killed by people motivated by the Koran and the example of Mohammed.
I am glad to see Bernie Farber outed for his anti-Christian bigotry. Obviously he will be condemned by Canada’s elite and stripped of all previously granted honours.
gravenimage says
The initial reports were that the shooter was screaming “Allahu Akbar!”. He has never been charged with a hate crime. I think there is more going on here than is being reported.
Carol says
There were some great links on JW to a tsecnetwork back in February 2017 (now the site appears closed down). Here’s some info I gathered at the time:
“The mosque was founded by the Muslim Student Association. It donated money yearly to IRFAN which according to the Canada Revenue Agency was set up to skirt the law and send millions of dollars a year to terrorist HAMAS. A regular attendee of the mosque is Abdallah Asafari, listed as “Masul” or leader of the Muslim Brotherhood for Eastern Canada (he normally would have been there on a Sunday night, he said, but his son had happened to take the car).
The attack can be seen as an intelligence failure by Canada (whose policies on Islamist terrorism are “fluffy”). It is also poorly timed for the Muslim Brotherhood since the US is advocating for them to be treated as a terrorist group in the US and “such a listing will have a major impact on the persons and money crossing the US/Can border by the MB front groups”.
Wynne and Trudopia seem to be trying hard to keep a lid on matters.”
The trial is now set to begin on March 26, 2018.
FYI says
The man is an uneducated imbecile and a moral coward.
mortimer says
Reply: Farber received a Bachelor of Arts degree from Carleton University. However, I strongly doubt he has read the primary Islamic source texts.
Terry Gain says
Mortimer
One does not have to read the primary Islamic texts to understand the threat that Islam poses to western civilization. One does not even need to be aware of Islam’s history of conquest. To understand the threat of Islam one just needs to pull one’s head out of the sand (or other place which is obstructing one’s view) and stop denying what is plainly occurring across the globe.
David says
Well said,Terry. We need to clearly identify the threat: Islam. Then clearly identify the Solution: Ban Mosques. Stop Muslim migration. Step benefits which facilitate breeding of multiple children (The most popular name:Mohammad says all we need to know)
Deport any muslim who supports Jihad, or complains about the Western lifestyle. That will cut down the muslim population by at least 30%
mortimer says
Bernie Farber is identifying Protestant Christians as the real problem. This is a common agenda from many sides.
In fact, Protestant Christian males in survey polls reveal themselves to be the most concerned about Islamic supremacism and issue of freedom of speech and pluralism.
People like Bernie Farber and the Muslim Brotherhood have seen where most of the informed opposition comes from. Their response is not a reasoned debate, but a smear campaign.
By smearing Protestants by name, Bernie Farber is acting as a fascist … a Goebbels… rather than a reasonable man.
Lydia Church says
This is how it begins.
Linda says
If Farber is ever faced with Muslim anti-semitism towards himself personally, we can all just let him fend for himself.
Richie says
Many Muslims see western lefists and liberals as extremely naive and easily manipulated
Richie says
Leftists demand total respect of two religions- Islam and atheism. All others are open for oppression. Secular and non practicing Jews often have deep hatred for practicing Jews, the same way atheist former Christians often despise practicing Christians. They simply see Islam as a comrade in arms who hate the same groups as them
mortimer says
Richie, the Red-Green Axis of Evil is based on opportunism, rather than on doctrine, so don’t expect it to be coherent.
Both the neo-Marxists and the Muslim Brotherhood realize that the other side is a false friend.
StellaSaidSo says
Richie, Atheism is not a religion. Atheism is the absence of belief in god/s. The popular assumption that all atheists are leftists is entirely erroneous, as is the assumption that all theists are conservative.
Richie says
actually atheism is a religion, not in the sense of worshiping a god, but it is a faith nonetheless
Kepha says
Listen to an “atheist” long enough, and he’ll review the little idol he worships.
StellaSaidSo says
Atheism is a religion in the same way that NOT collecting stamps is a hobby.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Atheism CAN be a religion. Depends on the atheist.
But there’s no doubt that people still look for meaning, morality, and how to understand origins and ends.
If that doesn’t describe ‘religion’, i’m not sure what does.
We all believe in some things that we can’t prove to other people 🙂
David says
Richie, is atheism a belief, in nothing?
gravenimage says
Agreed, Stella.
Lydia Church says
Atheism is a religion in the sense that:
1. It is a belief system. It is one in the sense that they don’t believe in any deities, which is a belief.
2. They are their own little gods. Instead of looking to another deity for guidance, they sit on the throne of their lives and defer to themselves in just about all things, they are their own little kings. In the sense that others look to God or a god, they look to themselves.
3. Many of them subscribe to the ‘human potential’ movement and secular humanism, which implies faith in mankind and what man can achieve, how man can save the world, etc.
StellaSaidSo says
There is NO sense in which atheism is a ‘religion’. Atheism is not a ‘belief system’. It is simply the absence of belief in god/s. No more, no less. There is no doctrine, no dogma, no ritual, no scripture. Atheists may be involved in all manner of ‘movements’, whether they be football clubs or political parties, but the one does not imply the other.
Every person who believes in a particular god or gods is an atheist in respect of the gods he does not believe in.
No-one is born with religious faith. Religion is culturally acquired, like language.
If you seriously believe your #2, then you don’t know many atheists, if any. Yet you feel entitled to insult them. The vast majority of atheists are ordinary decent people who work hard, pay their taxes, and raise their families in much the same way that most Christians do. Most atheists in the West would probably describe themselves as ‘cultural Christians’, and live by traditional Judaeo-Christian values and principles.
The assumption that all atheists are leftists is erroneous. As is the assumption that all Christians are conservative. Or the assumption that atheists are not actively involved in the counter-jihad movement. Or the assumption that there is no support for Christianity amongst atheists.
Hope this clears up some of your confusion.
gravenimage says
True, Stella. And many Atheists and Agnostics are very moral people–including quite a few contributors here at Jihad Watch.
Ray Jarman says
Richie, The amazing thing is that many on the left don’t see their leaders as they really are. They should read “The Gulag Archipelago” by Solzhenitsyn to understand how many of the first leaders won a pyrrhic victory over the Kerensky. Many of the first Bolsheviks like Lenin were secretly killed and many others like Kamenev, Zinoviev and Radek were eliminated by Stalin through trials or while in prison as well as Trotsky who was killed in Mexico. If their schemes were to come to fruition, the Soros’ would eliminate the Obama’s, the Sanders’ as well as anyone he doesn’t trust and say quantum patimur (how vast the evils we endure) as the Islamic leaders and the cult are exterminated. If the Islamists were to win the final battle, Thomas Hobbes’ natural law would prevail where first the war on the infidels, then the war on the Shia, then the war on all other tribes and lastly the war on every one until only one man is left standing.
mortimer says
Bernie Farber spent his life fighting fascism and now HE HAS BECOME A FASCIST himself.
Anonymous says
Bernie has spent his life enriching Bernie; first at the expense of the Jewish community (who dropped him when he became too much of a costly, self-serving liability and, as happens in many cases within Jewish leadership, he was too focused on leftist causes), and then he lived off his rich left-wing business sector friends that used him to promote their creepy, suck-up, pandering agendas which improved their relationships with, for instance, the native community, where his employers had a business stake along with the Canadian government. Bernie does hard-left advocay for fees and profit (and for their prophet).
Clare says
So when someone explains, proclaims and teaches what is in the Bible; that’s now called thumping?
Kepha says
Unabashed Bible thumper here. I’m not ashamed to have read it, and not ashamed to have taught it.
Clare says
Amen brother
Lydia Church says
Me too, I read it over many times, read it daily, and teach it also,
and am proud of it!
Unashamed and unabashed!
Andy says
The liberal view of race
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O8ZFBYdl_A&t=99s
Richie says
the left strongly supports racism as it helps their cause. The left is the group that catagorizes people by race and sexuality rather than seeing people as insividials
gravenimage says
These are not Liberals, but hard Leftists, who are anything but liberal.
LeftisruiningCanada says
“Data from Statistics Canada reveals uneven progress. After a rise in hate-crimes against Muslims in 2015, the number fell slightly in 2016. But the mosque attack shows we cannot be complacent.”
Only muslims are persecuted. Everybody else doesn’t matter.
“As the Jan. 29 anniversary approaches, Canadians must be silent no longer. We all know that no gender, sexual, religious, ethnic or racial minority is safe as long as another is not…..”
Sounds like a threat.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Christine Williams, Bible is thumping because it is a human production not what true jesus actually taught. It is à combination of pagan doctrines and hearsay on what Jésus actually taught. Thus, the myth “Bible inerrancy”has long been debunked.see Helen Ellerbe’s work “The dark side of christian history “,at page 16 ,for the debate.
Andy says
To:Ibrahim itace muhammed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DSNfC2EJhU
Andy says
To:Bernie Farber
This is a Christian nation! Not fkn Muslim shit hole
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKmis4u8jHk
Kepha says
Itace, you have absolutely no evidence for what the “real Jesus” taught, save for the pipe dreams of Muhammad ibn Abdallah ibn Abu Mutalib. A lot of us know the work of the “debunkers” from Marx and Ingersoll to Ehrman (although Ellerbe is someone I haven’t read–although I suspect she’s probably another neo-Marxist who doesn’t want you to note that Budenny left human corpses every few hundred yards across the Kazakh steppe which remained unburied even in Solzhenitsyn’s days as a Zek). Then again, you Muslims were never ashamed of massacring people and raping women.
LeftisruiningCanada says
From reading the introduction to her book, “The Dark Side of Christian History”, Helen Ellerbe appears to be an earth worshiping pantheist.
https://ia902300.us.archive.org/18/items/pdfy-9tx6xz9cSTQE6l6U/Ellerbe%20-%20The%20Dark%20Side%20of%20Christian%20History%20%281995%29.pdf
PABLO says
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! You scream that you are a loser and I second that.
gravenimage says
Ibrahim itace muhammed wrote:
Christine Williams, Bible is thumping because it is a human production not what true jesus actually taught.
…………………………
What Ibrahim itace muhammed is referring to is the “Muslim Jesus”, who was not the Savior, and was not a healer or a peacemakers, but whose role is to *murder Christians*.
More:
It is à combination of pagan doctrines and hearsay on what Jésus actually taught. Thus, the myth “Bible inerrancy”has long been debunked.see Helen Ellerbe’s work “The dark side of christian history “,at page 16 ,for the debate.
…………………………
Of course, some Christians have done bad things–no group is free from error, even serious sins.
The thing is that Ibrahim itace muhammed adheres to a creed that *sacralizes* oppression, rape, and mass slaughter.
LeftisruiningCanada says
“It is à combination of pagan doctrines and hearsay on what Jésus actually taught. Thus, the myth “Bible inerrancy”has long been debunked.see Helen Ellerbe’s work “The dark side of christian history “,at page 16 ,for the debate.”
Something you yourself have been asked many times to explain, but have dodged.
Instead, you quote authors of no credibility, as i gave you evidence for in another comment thread. The work of H Ellerbe is no better than “Holy Grail Holy Blood”, a shockingly bad collection of falsity and simple misunderstanding.
Which is exactly what you find in the book “the dark side of Christianity” by Helen Ellerbe.
I’m going to look at the page you mentioned, though it would help if you quoted a little of where you want us to look, since different editions change the page layout sometimes.
Have you read the book Ibrahim?
I’m guessing not, because i’d be surprised if a good muslims monotheist like you would want to quote the works of someone who at best could be described as a pantheist, and perhaps a practitioner of Wicca or some such nature based religion.
But then, double standards comes easily to muslims.
LeftisruiningCanada says
And if you think that Ellerbe’s criticism of Christianity in general don’t apply equally to islam, then you are blind indeed.
For example, read these quotes just from the preface:
…it has attempted to control, contain and confine spirituality, the relationship between an individual and God..
…belief in a singular, solely masculine, authoritarian God who demands unquestioning obedience and who mercilessly punishes dissent…a divinely ordained hierarchical order in which a celestial God reigns singularly at a pinnacle, far removed from the earth and all humankind.
..has also had a devastating impact upon humanity’s relationship with nature. As people began to believe that God was removed from and disdainful of the physical world, they lost their reverence for nature…..the severing of our connection with the sacred.
You see Ibrahim, she’s only attacking Christianity (badly, and with poor understanding of her target) because she thoroughly opposes monotheism and a transcendent Creator!
Don’t you see how those same fundamental criticisms apply to islam even more than they do to Christianity?
Do you really want to rely on such a biased source? She may of course hit upon true things from time to time, but her objectivity can in no way be relied upon. Everything she says, every ‘fact’ she quotes, every claim she makes, must be checked independently, every time.
gravenimage says
Fine posts, LeftisruiningCanada.
Lydia Church says
False.
It IS what Jesus really taught.
NO pagan stuff in it.
YOUR religion; islam, IS a pagan doctrine in its entirety.
No, it has not been debunked, the Bible is the inerrant
Word of God. There is evidence of that out there,
it has been proven.
The koran has been debunked as not the word of God
because it is so obviously satanic, hearsay from a demon
in a cave in some _ _ _ _ -hole place.
LeftisruiningCanada says
If Ibrahim was to look into many of the little things mohammad said in the hadith, he might have to face the fact that mohammad actually did include a lot of pagan superstition into his life.
Ibrahim, tell us about shaitan urinating in your ear……or was it your nose, i forget. And what about your prayers being ruining if a dog, or even a woman, walk by…..
There must be a hundred utterly pagan little folk superstitions that mohammad believed in. The demon god he was dealing with was not able to free him from those mental shackles.
Jesus however, can set you free from all those and do much more.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Interesting GI, thanks for mentioning that.
The image won’t load for me at the moment, but i’d be interested to learn how the connection was made and supported between early images of Christ and mithra.
Is your paper available online anywhere by chance?
gravenimage says
The ironic thing is that I actually wrote a paper at university about Christianity and Mithraism.
The *only* influence Mitrhaism had on Christianity was on art and iconography in the Roman Empire. Christ was sometimes depicted early on as a beardless youth with curly hair in images in the catacombs, and this was the influence of Mithraist images, which were quite popular in Rome at the time:
http://employees.oneonta.edu/farberas/arth/Images/arth212images/early_christian/painting/catacombs/christ_teacher.jpg
Here is an image of Mithra:
http://home.earthlink.net/~maywrite/mithras.jpg
That is *the full extent of it*. Mithraism had absolutely no influence on Christian scripture, which all predates Christian contact with Mithraism in Rome. And Mitharaism had no popular influence on Christianity, either.
In fact, they could not have been more different. Mithraism was a martial creed favored by many soldiers in the Roman army; Christianity was a persecuted faith that was entirely non-violent. The most common image of Mithra–including the one I linked to, above–is of his sacrificing a bull. There was no such violent imagery in Christianity.
The idea–which the dishonest Ibrahim itace muhammed flogs endlessly–that Christianity is “Mithraist” is utterly without basis.
But he continues to spew this claptrap anyway.
LeftisruiningCanada says
So Ibrahim, i’m looking at ‘page 16’ of Dark Side of Christian History right now, and i don’t really know what your point is. What ‘debate’ are you meaning.
All i see is some stuff about what a Christian was considered to be, and a bit about the canon being “assembled.. not to bring all the gospels together, but rather to encourage uniformity.”.
The author of course offers no evidence for this assertion.
Like you actually.
Is this the page 16 you mentioned? In my version it is in chapter 2, and contained references to endnotes 5 through 12. The last one is quoting Celsus.
Is that what you have?
(You see, this is why it’s good to quote and link to sources Ibrahim – we could avoid all this confusion if you did your due diligences. We could also more easily engage in constructive conversation if you quoted the specific points you are trying to make, rather then vaguely referring to entire pages of books)
gravenimage says
Thanks for tracking this down.
LeftisruiningCanada says
You’re welcome. The linked to version’s pages may not be lining up with Ibrahims, but i’m not convinced he even looked at the book itself anyway.
gravenimage says
He probably didn’t. More likely he just cadged it off some Jihadi website.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Yes, likely. No surprise that Ibrahim has made no comment here recently.
Repeated from above, because it was posted where i didn’t intend it:
Interesting GI, thanks for mentioning that.
The image won’t load for me at the moment, but i’d be interested to learn how the connection was made and supported between early images of Christ and mithra.
Is your paper available online anywhere by chance?
gravenimage says
LeftisruiningCanada, my piece was just an undergraduate paper–not available on-line.
And Mithraic-inspired images were just a small part of this phenomenon, in any case.
The background is really quite simple–the earliest Christians were mostly Jews, but as Christianity spread, they were Greeks, Romans, and other people living in the Roman Empire.
While the Jews did not have much of a tradition of representational art, Greeks and Romans *certainly* did. These Christians wanted to express their faith in images, but found little in the Christian or Jewish tradition.
So they turned to the rich traditions of Greece and Rome. This included not just the Greek and Roman gods, but also the plethora of cults popular in Rome at the time.
Besides Mithraism, other cults were very popular, such as the cult of Isis. Much of the original imagery of the Virgin and Child was based on Isis and Horus:
http://www.ancient-egypt-online.com/images/isis-horus1.jpg
Some of the images of God the Father were loosely based on images of Zeus.
The first large churches were likewise based on the general plan of the Roman basilica–mostly public buildings.
At Berkeley, Professors Andrew Stewart in the History of Art department and Professor Peter Brown of the History department both covered aspects of this. I know there are several others elsewhere. This phenomenon from the late Classical world is fairly widely known.
There is nothing unusual about this–art is often influenced by other art, and always has been.
Only idiots like Ibrahim itace muhammed consider this something he tries to condemn Christianity over.
Cheer Bear Girl says
All Leftists have been saying this for decades. What this useful idiot says isn’t new.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Andy,,filthy christianity is vanishing in the West. Next, It Will be Islamic West. what Will you do ?
gravenimage says
Ibrahim itace muhammed’s crowing over our immanent enslavement to Islam is premature.
Champ says
Graven, I see that we have the same thought in mind regarding islam …slavery!
And how demented does one have to be, and how low does a person have to go, in order to *contemplate* islam as a serious life choice? Revolting to even imagine!
gravenimage says
Yes, Champ. Those who convert to Islam are either in deep denial as to its viciousness, or–far more common and *far* uglier–are drawn to its savagery because that is what they find attractive.
That is why Islam is so popular among violent felons. *Ugh*.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Yes.
It’s another gang to belong to.
They think it’s the strongest one, so they join.
Very spiritual.
gravenimage says
One of the things that first struck me–besides its hideous violence–when I first began to study Islam is that there is almost nothing spiritual about it.
John Stefan Obeda says
Graven and others, you people are showing much patience and Christian love toward itace with your comments, but he simply rejects it all outright even as some Jews rejected the teaching of Jesus outright and was crucified. Before itace dies and many other rejecters I hope he and they will seriously consider the teachings and ways of Jesus. To reject Jesus as our God and Saviour from our sins is the most serious blunder and sin of all.
Champ says
To reject Jesus as our God and Saviour from our sins is the most serious blunder and sin of all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Indeed!
Champ says
The evil “ibe” would love to see the entire planet under islam and *enslaved* to it, just as he is …
This evil perp is worse than a drug pusher.
Andy says
To:Ibrahim itace muhammed
NUTS!
gravenimage says
🙂
PABLO says
Christ and Christians are your masters. Without Christians almost 100% of the inventions that benefited society would have never been invented. Muslims have never contributed anything of benefit to mankind and never will.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
what did christians invent 600 years before Islam with exception of dogmas ? Quran told muslims to inquire. show me where mithraist Bible say so.
LeftisruiningCanada says
What have muslims ever invented, is the real question. Stop trying to squirm out of answering it.
And you haven’t shown that there is anything mithraist in the Bible, despite being asked to do so many times.
Lydia Church says
We did not invent dogmas, God gave them to us.
But the devil invented the dogmas that mohammed took with him, and invented a few more to ‘suit his needs.’
Go back to your cave.
There is nothing mithra about the Bible.
Get a clue for once.
You don’t answer because you have no defense.
It is obvious to us all.
gravenimage says
Actually, the Qur’an threatens those who ask too many questions. *Ugh*.
LeftisruiningCanada says
We will go somewhere else and make that place the most desirable part of the earth.
What will you do?
gravenimage says
I take your point–but I don’t plan on ceding the free West to these Muslim thugs without a fight.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Agreed. I see how it can read like that now you mention it, but it was not intended to imply surrender 🙂
gravenimage says
Thank you, LeftisruiningCanada. 🙂
Andy says
Nuts!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XayVafPHfgQ
🙂
Lydia Church says
Filthy, filthy islam is taking over because in the end the devil has his hour over all the world.
Christianity is sacred.
You blaspheme God Himself all day and one day you will have to answer to Him.
You will have to face the author of the Bible at the judgment throne.
At Christ’s return, He crushes the devil and all his servants, including all the muslim invaders who have not repented and converted to Christianity. That is when HIS kingdom begins, and the devil’s comes to an end.
The question is:
What will YOU do then?!?!
Unless you repent now, it won’t be pretty later for your end.
It’s pretty ugly now as well.
gravenimage says
Canada: “Islamophobia” pusher calls Christian evangelicals “Bible-thumping ultra-conservatives”
…………………..
What a dhimmi tool.
PABLO says
Remember, stupid and self serving Jews like Farber, who aid in the Islamization of the west, have a right of return to Israel. After the Farber’s of the world mess up our societies they will flee to Israel when the going gets rough.
gravenimage says
If the West falls, Israel will be in peril, as well.
And there are lots of suicidal dhimmis–they are not all Jewish by any means.
islamkills says
This fool is on fb. Go there and give this idiot a piece of your mind.
LeftisruiningCanada says
I’d probably get banned. Fascistbook doesn’t like their honored muslim guests to be upset.
janwoG says
Many Evangelicals are strong supporters of Zionism. Leftist fake Jews are kapos betraying Judaism. and the return of Israel into her land.
Lydia Church says
Well tell that block head that I am a:
“Bible-thumping ultra conservative Evangelical”
myself, and a loud and proud one at that!!!
And for the coming persecution aimed against us,
I even have my ‘yellow cross’ stitched onto my jacket,
ready to go, which I will also wear loud and proud as
a badge of honor because that’s what it is.
(Like the yellow Jewish stars that the nazi’s forced
Jewish people to wear during the Holocaust.)
Happy National Religious Freedom Day in the US;
January 16th!
Like they say; use it or lose it.
Lydia Church says
Spot on.
They take many forms.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Yes, just like all good bureaucrats.
Georg says
Have yet to see mullahs or sheikhs referred to as “far-right” or “supremacists” despite their being so extremely far to the right of those labeled “far-right” by our media they are below the x-axis.
gravenimage says
So true, Georg.
LeftisruiningCanada says
It’s an interesting thing to try and place islam on the political spectrum.
I’m not that well schooled in how various imams would answer, but i took the following test trying to answer as best i could with the little i know about islam:
https://www.politicalcompass.org/
The result it gave was a left wing authoritarian regime, which fits with islam being a close fit for a kind of theocratic fascism. That’s how i’ve come to view it anyway.
Take the test if you have a few minutes, it’s pretty interesting. Maybe someone here could answer in a more thoroughly islamic manner.
gravenimage says
LeftisruiningCanada, I’ve always found that hard-core Communism and Fascism–nominally “far left” and “far right” and so supposedly opposites–are actually virtually indistinguishable.
I think the “left/right” spectrum only really works for people with at least relatively civilized politics. At the far ends, it breaks down.
And I don’t know where to put myself on this spectrum–I am a close to free speech absolutist, and am for women’s and gay rights and am anti-racist (real racism, that is)–which shows me as “left”–but I am anti-Jihad, which immediately marks me as “far right”, even though this protects Liberal values. I am also for the rights of practicing Jews and Christians to be safe from persecution, which makes me–what? “Right wing”. again?
Actually, many Anti-Jihadists are in this space–Ayaan Hirsi Ali–a Black African feminist–has been called a ‘racist’ right-winger. Gay rights activists are called “far right” because they don’t like the idea of Muslims murdering gay people.
Ultimately, this is all pretty meaningless, and is mostly used to smear those who stand against Jihad.
For myself, I consider pro-freedom and for the rights of the individual.
Communism, Fascism, and–God knows–Islam violently opposes those rights.
gravenimage says
And I just took your test. I found that most of the questions were too complex to give simple answers, but I took a shot anyway. I wound up just slightly to the “left” on social issues, and slightly to the “right” on economics. In other words, mostly for freedom on all matters.
LeftisruiningCanada says
It’s true, much of this can depend on who is asking the questions.
There has been quite a bit of debate on even what the structure of a political spectrum should look like.
It is interesting what you say, because Fascism has always eluded easy classification.
That so often it is deemed to be a Right Wing package has always troubled me.
Apart from it’s focus on being a pro-national ideology, there is little to separate it from straight up socialism. Of course , it has quite different underpinnings, but, at the end of the day, Fascists have absolutely no problem with, for example taking over all industry or attempting to create universal, mandatory, communal exercise programs and other welfare systems. It all seems to depend on what is thought best for the ‘o’ at any one time. There are no other real concerns.
Communists could well say that Fascism is right wing….from their own ultra left perspective (what isn’t?). Perhaps that’s why fascism being right wing is the constant opinion these days, because so many commentators in media are, in fact, communists, at least in part.
For example, if we define a single left-right axis as being collectivist on the left, and individualist on the right (which would seem to represent ‘the one and many’), then Fascism is undoubtedly Left Wing. Same deal if we define the left as authoritarian and the right as libertarian. Or left as command economy, right as laissez-faire.
It could appear as right wing if we said that wanting to preserve what we now call traditional family values was conservative…but only if those values were the norm before fascism came along. It won’t be long until they aren’t.
What is interesting is that ‘right wing’ has become a slur. This tells us much about who and what is dominating the thoughts of those in the media etc.
But returning to islam, do you think it fair to say that the economic model it offers is more left leaning than right? It certainly is not in favor of a society where anyone is free to buy and sell as they wish, because certain products are forbidden. This would require communal or State enforcement, since a demand for those products is going to arise somewhere.
Islam would seem to require State, or Caliphate, regulation at pretty much all levels of the economy. Mohammad was consulted on all matters when he was around (if he was around), so it seems unlikely that this would not be repeated in an islamic state.
Socially, it can only be the same: you will know better than i do the amount of communal and State involvement with day to day life required by koran and hadith. Zikat is welfare statism writ large, isn’t it?
Anyway, too much i have typed already. Thanks for replying on the subject, it’s something of an interest, this political labeling 🙂
Yitz says
I am a torah thumpin jew and proud of it. Too bad that lefty self hating jew farber never experienced what the true torah is all about so he joined the liberal religion.the toronto star is run by Palestinian so farber is in his own group
gravenimage says
+1
LeftisruiningCanada says
Right!
By the way Yitz, if you ever reading something i might post up about the Talmud etc, feel free to correct it if something is out of place. I’d appreciate your help if you ever felt like it.
🙂
Politicianophobia says
I bra him, I will stand with God Almighty.
Anonymous says
Bernie Farber does paid activism for anyone with deep pockets. that is how he makes a living. The Jewish community got rid of him because he was emerging into a fool. The left and the Islamists now have lots of money to promote their co-operative agendas. Bernie is a person who is becoming more leftist as time goes on. He now aligns himself with radical Islamists and people who have a strong hate for Israel, Christians and anyone on the right (which includes a lot of people because Bernie is now on the extreme left).
I wonder how Bernie thinks Jews will fare in a society where Islamic sharia and the words of Mohammad are sacrosanct and above criticism. It did not work out too well for them over the ages in Islamic countries where, at best, they were dhimmis living at the mercy of the caliph or Muslim rulers. It did not work out so well for Jews in the 20th century when Islamic countries forced them out. Thank goodness they had Israel to flee – now the leftists now want to shrink, give away or eliminate Israel altogether.
I would keep my eye on Bernie because his prejudice and his anger against people of faith has grown vile. If it goes much further, I think that the hate crimes unit of the Toronto Police might want to get involved. He is a public person and TorStar, CJN and other publications are his public platform. He is not your average person expressing his opinions and views. After the Jewish community realized their mistake of employing this guy, he has gone on to find some very agenda-driven backers who have a pro-sharia, anti-Christian and anti0semitic goals.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Good points, and thanks for the advice.
Anonymous says
Bernie’s next step, I would guess, is to become a Brownshirt enforcer for Trudeau’s future M-103 task-force once the government sneaks it into real legislation.
I just received this new information on how the government intends to pass M-103 into legislation with a lot of fanfare and infused with love for the oppressed Canadian Muslim who, we are told, is being oppressed by the terrible white guy enemy that Trudeau is characterizing the entire citizenry of Canada – the Canadian deplorables (in retrospect) who voted him into a majority position as PM (to their shame and probable downfall):
“The Heritage Standing Committee’s report on Motion M-103 (to which we have NOT yet been privy) is expected to be announced at the end of this month to coincide with a Motion to Memorialize Islamophobia on January 29 both in Ottawa and in Toronto.”
LeftisruiningCanada says
Oh have mercy
Why don’t we just declare a national holy day for mohammad and his forty thieves, along with eid al adha and fitr. The ‘running of the Jew’ won;t be far behind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McN0JT7YChU