Yesterday I asked “where are the prosecutions?,” and voila.
The renowned Muslim “reformer” Tariq Ramadan, who has never reformed a thing, appears to be acting upon assumptions that stem from Islamic teachings.
“When I resisted, when I told him to stop, he insulted and humiliated me.”
Now where would Tariq Ramadan have gotten the idea that a woman has no right to refuse sex?
A hadith depicts Muhammad saying: “If a husband calls his wife to his bed [i.e. to have sexual relation] and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the angels will curse her till morning” (Bukhari 4.54.460).
He also is depicted as saying: “By him in Whose Hand lies my life, a woman can not carry out the right of her Lord, till she carries out the right of her husband. And if he asks her to surrender herself [to him for sexual intercourse] she should not refuse him even if she is on a camel’s saddle” (Ibn Majah 1854).
“He slapped me and was outright violent.”
Did Ramadan simply lose control of himself? Maybe. But he also likely believes that a man may beat a woman from whom he “fears disobedience,” as per the Qur’an:
“Men have authority over women because Allah has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because Allah has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them.” (Qur’an 4:34)
And in a hadith, Muhammad’s child bride Aisha recounts an incident when he hit her. Muhammad “struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?” (Sahih Muslim 2127)
“Rape-accused Islam scholar Tariq Ramadan detained in Paris,” Al Arabiya, January 31, 2018:
Rape-accused Islam scholar Tariq Ramadan has been detained in Paris, on Wednesday, reported AFP. A complaint was filed in France against the Islamist philosopher and theologian Tariq Ramadan, October 2017, for rape and sexual assault, following accusations of raping Salafist-turned secular liberal activist Henda Ayari.
This complaint was filed with the public prosecutor’s office in Rouen, north-west of France for “criminal acts of rape, sexual assault, violence, harassment, threats”, according to AFP.
Ramadan is the grandson of the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood Hassan al-Banna and currently a professor of contemporary Islamic studies at Oxford University in the United Kingdom.
Henda Ayari, 40, president of the association Libératrices, said on her Facebook page that she has been a victim of something very serious which took place several years ago, but did not want to reveal the name of her attacker because of “threats on his part”….
It turns out that the mentioned – according to her – is Tariq Ramadan, as per explosive claims she made on her Facebook page in recent days.
Ayari has published the book to tell her story of how she decided to abandon the Salafi approach and take off her hijab to live as a “free” Muslim more than a year ago.
Hind said that she followed the 55-year-old Oxford university professor of Contemporary Islamic Studies and listened to his religious and social advice on social media.
In her memoir, Ayari details how her alleged assailant invited her to meet him at a hotel in Paris in 2012, where he was taking part in a conference.
Ramadan gave a lecture aside of the Federation of Islamic Organizations conference in Paris, then invited Ayari to his room in the hotel, she said that he took advantage of her weakness to hug and kiss her. When she refused – as per her story – he slapped her violently.
Her book reads: ‘When I resisted, when I told him to stop, he insulted and humiliated me. He slapped me and was outright violent. I saw someone who was no longer in control of himself. I was scared he would kill me. I wanted to escape but at the same time I couldn’t believe what was happening.
“I started to cry and he said to me: ‘So honey, you’re whining are you? Stop pretending you don’t like it. You didn’t know what a real man was like before. Well, now you do.”…
RichardL says
aaaah, that puts a big smile on my face that just refuses to go away.
Jack Dawkins says
Did someone say schadenfreude?
RichardL says
well, I am German and am entitled to a little of that. And it is about a truly dangerous man
Charles says
RichardL : If someone claims to be German, one should also admit that “Wir sind alles Krupannier” In the same way that we 1940-1945 French should admit that “Nous sommes tous des assassins.”
StellaSaidSo says
‘Did someone say schadenfreude?’
Yep. I just opened a bottle of it. Basking in its warm glow as we speak.
Jack Dawkins says
BWAHAHA!
mortimer says
Let rapist Tariq Ramadan explain to the world how Islam makes a weakling into a REAL MAN that rapes women (or so it seems to him in his view of Islam).
Let apologist Tariq Ramadan explain how Islam teaches the GENOCIDAL RAPE of MARRIED CAPTIVES in Koran 4.24 and then let him explain how that makes Muslims REAL MEN.
Let apologist Tariq Ramadan explain how dirty, slutty KAFIR women ‘have it coming to them’ because they do not think that Mohammed is a genuine prophet.
Muslims think that they ‘PROVE’ Mohammed is a prophet when they RAPE kafir women.
StellaSaidSo says
Tariq Ramadan was never anything but a savage, clothed in the costume of a civilised man.
Carol (the 1st) says
She should have come back and shown him what a REAL WOMAN does when he’s sleeping…but I guess that would be stooping to his level. My bad.
Linnte says
Oh but Carol, I totally understand that sentiment!
StellaSaidSo says
The name Loreena Bobbitt did spring, ever so briefly, to my mind…
Gea says
So are msot Muslim men wnho still think taht a pedophile, polygamist, rapist, mistogunist, looter, slaver and mass murderer Mohamed is ‘the most perfect man who ever lived and their “belovedn crime prophet”. Criminal role model creates criminal folloswers. Isxlam does nto belong to any society that resoects liberty, justice and human rights.
I hope this phony Tarik ramadan gets what he deserevs whilse in jailo. Even criminals have a code of ethics and do not like rapsits like him.
Charles says
StellaSaidSo: …or as Mikawber says in David Copperfield “…(Heep) is a monster in human garb.”
Michael Copeland says
Remember the allegation of rape against a very high profile accused in New York by the hotel chambermaid. In the course of their enquiries the police found that the accuser had lied. This meant that her evidence would always be unreliable, and thus unacceptable in court. The charge was dropped.
Ramadan advised his muslim audience to lie:
“Tell the infidels in public, ‘we respect your laws and your constitutions’, which we Muslims believe that these are as worthless as the paper they are written on. ….. The only law we must respect and apply is the Shari’a.”
https://gatesofvienna.net/2018/01/tariq-ramadan-freedom-of-conscience/
This will presumably make his whole defence unreliable. We shall wait to see
Carol (the 1st) says
Michael…your link leads to an excellent article (and I just realized it was written by you yourself – so congratulations and thank you!) You really have Ramadan’s number and follow the “fragrance of rodent” like a bloodhound. Your philosophic food for thought is also excellent.
gravenimage says
Michael, thank you for that article. I have, of course, read your posts here for years–but like Carol, I did not realize you contributed pieces to sites like Gates of Vienna. Fine analysis.
Aingel Strong says
Book retailers like #Waterstones have this #enemy #combatants ( Thanks for that correct description of terrorists #POTUS ) on their book shelves .. Given the fact no moslem is ever going to buy an islamic book in a kafir bookshop, who is his and other similar jihadi material aimed at? Lets think.. islamic curious bored housewives , lefty students , corbynites , The Popes friends , Parliamentarians , Traitors , of course, silly me .. the list is endless ..
lebel says
“Yesterday I asked “where are the prosecutions?,” and voila.”
Actually you implied that he was not being prosecuted because he’s a Muslim: “Meanwhile, where are the prosecutions? Nothing is apparently being done to bring justice to his accusers. Would trying Ramadan be “Islamophobic”?”
That is of course nonsense but your audience believes any nonsense you write. I replied to your initial post with information showing that there was an investigation going on.
The second thing is that people are usually innocent until proven guilty. Unless of course you are a Muslim on jihadwatch.
Buraq says
@ lebel
You’re a clown! Ramadan has been arrested due to a complaint made by a woman who claims he raped her. And you neatly side step the fact that when these rumors about Ramadan’s salacious behavior first appeared, his defenders muttered darkly that it was all a Jewish plot. But you won’t address that point, will you!
And if and when Ramadan is found guilty in a secular court of law, will you return to these hallowed pages to offer a groveling apology? I doubt it!
lebel says
Well firstly, I think conspiracy theories are stupid. However unlike you I am not selective. In other words the conspiracy theory peddled by the anti-Muslim movement that Obama is a secret Muslim is just as stupid as that of a jewish conspiracy against Tariq Ramadan.
If Tariq Ramadan is convicted, then he is guilty. As of now he is presumed innocent. Once again, you have already established his guilt because he is a Muslim. Fortunately the world does not work like a jihadwatch thread.
StellaSaidSo says
There is far more evidence to support the claim that Obama is a Muslim than there is to support the claim of a ‘Jewish conspiracy’ against Tariq Ramadan.
Mari For says
Well perhaps Obama didn’t overtly practice the Muslim faith but the fact his father was a Muslim means he automatically was born one. He said he practiced the Christian faith but Muslims are permitted by the Koran to LIE. It is known as « sacred deception » or « taqqiya ». He lied to the American people about claiming that Muslims were part of their founding fathers. He had Muslim Brotherhood advocates working in Homeland Security in the White House. And he refused to name ISIS for what it was. Obama didn’t leave Washington as he’s doing everything to counter Trump’s actions. Anyway now the USA has a president whose job is to clean up the big mess Obama made.
Aingel Strong says
With respect .. The muslim world clearly works the way their codex demands, and has a 1400 year history of doing as the prophet and his companions did. No one in any “Kafir” Land upholds or practices the example of any one of the numerous 7th century errants in their midst. My studies lead me to believe this is due to islams endogamy game, which ensures the sustaining of a narrow set of male genes, continuing through time some very primitive intellects that otherwise would have died out centuries ago. Couple that practice, which nurtures powerful, rich cowards breeding scholars – who according to “sacred law” are worth more than martyrs – with a booty economy driven by “inherit (thieve)homes, properties lands – not yet trodden on .. and migration is jihad – for fighting or women – and it is unsurprising Muslims are what they evidently are, arrogant, ignorant, perverted droids, obsessed with the cult that formed them. MUS face and LIM snake/presence are Sumerian loan-words, and they sum up their intended product, the believer, perfectly .. A moslem has zero chance of Heaven. The paradise of muhammad they will certainly get, and as you well know, the aorta incident indicates clearly, that paradise is not the mansion of GOD. You are all either very fuqaha stupid, plain evil, or illiterate. Whichever the fact so many different creeds and people rightly despise moslems and Islam indicates the truth of what Islam is. But of course muh ham head, or whoever divised the booty culture knew that would be the case.
Believe this .. Its true, We are going to get you low life out of our countries. Think we cant? You wait and see. 1000 years of actual Peace for our coming generations will be well worth the sacrifices we anticipate but are prepared to make ..
Linnte says
The deciding moment for me, that Obama is a Muslim, is when the Iatolla called him a hypocrite. One CANNOT be a “hypocrite” by Islamic standards, unless one is a Muslim. Also, the Bible states an altruism in Proverbs- raise a child up in the way that he should go, and when he is old, he will return.
Norger says
He’s presumed innocent in a (US) court of law; that’s not what this is. People here are entitled to form their own opinions, just like you. I don’t know enough about this case to form an opinion, but with these of allegations logic says that the more accusers there are, the more likely you’re looking at pattern of conduct.
Do I think that French authorities were probably reluctant to prosecute Mr. Ramadan because of who he is? Of course, t would be naive to think otherwise. And I hope he’s convicted because he’s an Islamist snake.
gravenimage says
I’ve only just scanned this thread, but it seems that lebel is adament in his defense of a Muslim accused of what Muslims proudly do in the name of their “Prophet”. This should not surprise, given his posing history here.
lebel wrote:
The second thing is that people are usually innocent until proven guilty. Unless of course you are a Muslim on jihadwatch.
………………………..
As Norger notes, this is the case *in a court of law*. No one is saying that Ramadan should be convicted without due process, as lebel pretends.
Champ says
“lebel” the hypocrite wrote:
“That is of course nonsense but your audience believes any nonsense you write.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wow so Robert is full of nonsense, and so is his audience, eh?
Clearly this is a bold-faced lie since the brilliant and knowledgeable, Robert Spencer, never presents any “nonsense”, only the truth. And his audience are some of the brightest & best! I have learned a lot from so many here.
So “lebel” is not only a lying, pious-pompous ass, but a profound HYPOCRITE, as well. Notice how he accuses Robert Spencer of passing judgment–which of course he isn’t, but “lebel” thinks that he is–and then “lebel” turns around and passes his own silly brand of judgment on Robert Spencer AND his audience. Oh, and let me add entitled to the laundry list, too.
Hey apparent;y “lebel” is the smartest guy on Jihad Watch–NOT!
“lebel” is a liar, a hypocrite, and a foolish clown. A waste of precious bandwidth, if you ask me.
lebel says
“Now where would Tariq Ramadan have gotten the idea that a woman has no right to refuse sex?”
From the old testament like Weinstein? Oh wait, that logic works only on Muslims, jews don’t have to be reduced to their worst texts.
StellaSaidSo says
lebel, we all know exactly where Muslims get the idea from that a woman has no right to refuse sex.
And you know very well that Christians and Jews in the 21stC don’t live by ‘their worst texts’; they live by the laws of civilised society. Muslims, by contrast, believe that only ‘Allah’s law’ counts, and anything that was OK by the vile creep Mohammed is OK by them, no matter how barbaric, and no matter how illegal.
Why don’t you stop defending the putrid nonsense that is Islam, and become a decent human being instead?
eduardo odraude says
Lebel, so you would agree that Qur’an 4:34 is among the “worst” Islamic texts?
Carol (the 1st) says
+1
eduardo odraude says
lebel, if the case is sometimes overstated here, that is largely to counterbalance people like you, who pretend that Islam is just like other religions, when in fact it is totalitarian.
From Bernard Lewis’ essay “Communism and Islam” in International Affairs, Vol. 30, No. 1 (Jan., 1954), pp. 1-12:
lebel says
Thanks, you’re right in the sense that I think this is the way of all theocracies. In other words I don’t think a jewish, christian or even buddhist theocracy (the latter is somewhat self-contradicting) would be a beacon of freedom and democracy. Luckily I don’t support theocracies, Muslim or otherwise. I am against jihadwatch because it is against ALL muslims and because it is irrational in its opposition (Iwould say hatred) of Islam. In other words, Islam is ALL bad, ALL the time.
StellaSaidSo says
‘…Islam is ALL bad, ALL the time.’
Sounds about right.
What’s GOOD about Islam, lebel? I’ve read the ‘holy’ tomes, as have most posters here. There are a few pleasant verses, yes, but they are superseded by the far more numerous violent verses. If you remove all the hatred and stupidity from the Koran, there isn’t much left.
JawsV says
It’s rational to oppose and despise anti-Jew/Christian murderous Islam. Yes, Islam’s a bad religion. No doubt about it. ALL the time.
gravenimage says
lebel wrote:
I am against jihadwatch because it is against ALL muslims and because it is irrational in its opposition (Iwould say hatred) of Islam. In other words, Islam is ALL bad, ALL the time.
……………………….
Well, *this* is an interesting admission. In the past, lebel has always claimed that he is staunchly against Jihad, but that he just objects to some discrete aspect of some story on Jihad Watch, or to some specific comments by some poster.
Given he has not said anything against Jihad in all the years he has been here, this was always obviously absurd–but now he openly says that he is against Jihad Watch–a site dedicated to opposing the horrors of Jihad and Shari’ah. Grimly telling.
As for his claim that Jihad Watch is against all Muslims, this is obvious claptrap. In fact, Jihad Watch has also noted Islamic violence against Muslims. Robert Spencer has said many times that if Muslims are peaceful that there is no problem at all.
As to the last, I would like to hear what lebel considers to be salubrious in Islam. There are certainly things that are not specifically objectionable–so long as their observance is not forced, which they so often are–such as practicing Wudu, fasting during Ramadan, and going on the Hadj.
But these are not issues here, as he well knows. We oppose such matters as child marriage, rape, the imposition of brutal Shari’ah, and the waging of violent Jihad.
eduardo odraude says
Lebel, you said
So your view is that all religions are equally prone to theocracy and equally obstacles to democracy? Four points are evidence against your view:
1) The prime exemplar of Islam united religion and state in himself. The prime exemplar of Christianity supported distinguishing those two realms. Judaism does not support theocratic dictatorship, but even if Judaism did, there are only 15 million Jews, so they could not impose theocracy on the world even if Jews wished to. There is no single prime exemplar of Hinduism, and Hindu polytheism meshes well with pluralistic democracy. Buddha was no warlord, did not rule a state, and his main message was compassion, not submission. Islam’s “rightly guided” caliphs who immediately followed Muhammad conquered by the sword all of North Africa and much of the Middle East within a century of Muhammad’s death and imposed Islamic law (theocracy) in varying degrees wherever they went.
2) Pew polls of Muslims show that large percentages support totalitarian elements of Islamic theocratic rule. There is no theocratic movement even remotely similar in size in any of the other major religions.
3) The core Islamic region — Middle East/North Africa — has the worst human rights record of any major region anywhere on the globe. Worse than the Americas, worse than Asia, worse than Sub-Saharan Africa. Check human rights organizations global reports.
4) The core Islamic texts, far more than those of any other major religion, contain a violent, expanionist totalitarian program for the whole earth. See http://www.quotingislam.blogspot.com
These four points do not mean that all Muslims are totalitarians, of course not. But the majority support at least some elements of totalitarian theocracy and will do nothing to oppose its growth. And a large minority are for full on Islamic law. Hundreds of millions support violent jihad to spread Islamic law. There is nothing remotely like this in any of the other major religions.
Already there is a great deal of self-censorship in the West because people are intimidated into silence by jihadists and Islamists. This happens with no other religion to anything remotely like the same extent.
So there is every reason to single Islam out for forceful criticism as a grave threat to liberal democratic societies.
Norger says
@ eduardo
Excellent stuff.
Carol (the 1st) says
graven image wrote:
Robert Spencer has said many times that if Muslims are peaceful that there is no problem at all….We oppose such matters as child marriage, rape, the imposition of brutal Shari’ah, and the waging of violent Jihad.
~~~~~~
These two statements (assuming you include RS in the latter one) appear to contradict each other. “Peacefulness” alone is troubling as it insufficiently addresses Islam’s willful harm – especially to the vulnerable (women, children, gays, animals etc.) We can’t order about the whole world (even if we wanted to) but implying “peacefulness” from Islam would be all that’s required is a little shocking in fact (and I’m sure you yourself would agree) which is why I wonder about the seeming short circuit by RS).
Linnte says
I guess my question to you would be “Show me something GOOD about Islam” that comes from a proper understanding of Islam. And please use Hadiths, Qur’an and Islamic Jurisprudence as your proof. I’ll wait.
gravenimage says
Hi, Carol (the 1st).
I’m not sure what your objection to my comments are.
If Muslims are peaceful then they are not only not waging violent Jihad, but also not raping women and children or imposing Shari’ah law.
Of course, I realize this means they are not really practicing Islam, and so this situation seldom lasts for long.
LeftisruiningCanada says
The false equivalence that some people like to push is really such a very dishonest ploy.
What are you referring to in the OT lebel?
Show me a Jew who thinks he should behave like David at his worst, and i’ll show you a muslim that can’t understand anyone else’s religion. We don’t all think we should idolize and imitate whatever someone in a book once said or did.
If Christians become better Christians they act a little more like Jesus from th NT. If a muslim becomes a better muslim by acting a little more like mohammad, it doesn’t have quite the same improving effect upon the world.
lebel says
There are jews who believe that this behavior is acceptable now
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/12/israeli-armys-new-chief-rabbi-accused-of-condoning-rape-by-soldi/
and there are those who think it is only acceptable under a full Sanhedrin. Others believe that non-jews will all be slaves of the jews when Messiah comes back.
https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/16937/are-non-jews-gentiles-permanent-slaves-to-jews-in-olam-habah
Acting more like Muhamad can also mean being kind to your parents and paying your debts btw
LeftisruiningCanada says
But why pick and choose, lebel? Is it ok to play sex games with your 6 year old ‘wife’ so long as you don’t carry any debt and call home now and again?
LeftisruiningCanada says
Oh please, you think that Rabbi was saying it’s ok to rape women? Did you even read the article lebel?
Did you ever stop to think that the man might have been saying that soldiers, along with being allowed to break kosher, might also be allowed to become intimate with Gentiles which is otherwise frowned upon?
In fact, that’s exactly what he said :
“though fraternizing with a gentile woman is a very serious matter, it was permitted during wartime (under the specific terms) out of understanding for the hardship endured by the warriors.”
https://972mag.com/idf-colonel-rabbi-implies-rape-is-permitted-in-war/39535/
Are you just Ibrahim writing in a more sensible fashion under a different name or something? Because you’re incredibly dishonest way of writing and thinking is just like his.
Not least because you are doing exactly what you accuse everyone here of doing. Again.
LeftisruiningCanada says
And as for your stack exchange link, did you bother to read and understand the replies?
Did you even read the question, which expressed concern over the interpretation that people would be slaves forever?
I’d try and explain the Biblical position on this to you from a Christian perspective, but you won’t read it and i’ll never get a reply from you anyway, so why bother?
My goodness, these attempts to support your Jew hatred are weak lebel.
gravenimage says
lebel wrote:
There are jews who believe that this behavior is acceptable now
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/12/israeli-armys-new-chief-rabbi-accused-of-condoning-rape-by-soldi…
……………………….
As LeftisruiningCanada notes, this headline is bogus–“fraternizing” with a Gentile women does not mean raping her–it means chatting, dating, or possibly sleeping with her. How can lebel pretend this is the same thing? It is also in the context of whether devout Jewish soldiers can eat non-Kosher food if they have to in order to keep their strength up.
Did lebel fail to actually read the article–or does he just hope we won’t read it?
More:
and there are those who think it is only acceptable under a full Sanhedrin. Others believe that non-jews will all be slaves of the jews when Messiah comes back.
https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/16937/are-non-jews-gentiles-permanent-slaves-to-jews-in-olam-habah…
……………………….
This is pretty obscure stuff–few Jews believe this.
More to the point, of course, is that Jews are not raping and enslaving Gentiles in the name of their faith–but Muslims do this to Infidels on a regular basis.
More:
Acting more like Muhamad can also mean being kind to your parents and paying your debts btw
……………………….
Um….right. lebel surely knows that Muhamad affirmed that his father was in Hell:
Muslim (203) narrated from Anas (may Allaah be pleased with him) that a man said: “O Messenger of Allaah, where is my father?” He said: “In Hell.” When he turned away he called him back and said: “My father and your father are in Hell.”
And:
Muslim (976) narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I asked my Lord for permission to pray for forgiveness for my mother, but He did not give me permission. And I asked Him for permission to visit her grave, and He gave me permission.”
https://islamqa.info/en/47170
Here is one of the few mentions of Muhammed paying his debts:
Volume 3, Book 41, Number 573:
Narrated Abu Dhar:
Once, while I was in the company of the Prophet, he saw the mountain of Uhud and said, “I would not like to have this mountain turned into gold for me unless nothing of it, not even a single Dinar remains of it with me for more than three days (i.e. I will spend all of it in Allah’s Cause), except that Dinar which I will keep for repaying debts.”
This sounds more like wishful thinking than an actual intent to repay his debts.
As for reality, recall that most of Muhammed’s income after he became the “Prophet” of Islam came from caravan raiding, kidnapping and ransom, and enslaving people. Does lebel consider this something where Muslims should ‘act more like Muhamad’, as well?
gravenimage says
lebel’s claim that Jews and Christians are raping victims on the texts and tenets of the Torah and Gospel is just absurd. References, please.
Norger says
The difference, as you are no doubt aware is that to the extent the Old Testament purports to command violence, that’s a dead letter to today’s Christians and Jews. Harvey Weinstein never attempted to justify his conduct by citing the Old Testament,By way of contrast, there’s a reason why Islamic terrorists are fond of beheading, and it’s found in the Koran. And if the Muslim “extremists” were to argue that “the worst of Muslim scriptures” (i.e. the Medina verses) carry more theological weight than the “moderate” verses, the extremists would be extremely correct. It’s called abrogation. In short, the tu quoque (“Christianity is just as bad”) argument is pretty weak. And I’m an atheist.
lebel says
OK Norger but has Tariq Ramadan attempted to justify his alleged actions via the Quran? No, he has been accused and happens to be Muslim. Is that enough to invoke the Quran?
Norger says
Islam treats women like sh*t, on theological grounds, so yes it’s OK to consider what role Islamic theology may have played in potentially causing a prominent Muslim theologian to commit multiple sexual assaults. Ramadan himself would tell you that Muhammed/Islam forms the ethical bases for his conduct, so why isn’t this a fair question to ask?
StellaSaidSo says
lebel,
In the article, Robert Spencer poses the question ‘Where did Tariq Ramadan get the idea that a woman has no right to refuse sex?’ As Tariq Ramadan is a Muslim, it is reasonable to suppose that he got the idea from the Koran. As have so many of his co-religionists who have found themselves facing similar charges. Do you deny that there is a connection between the Koranic endorsement of violence against women, and the disproportionately high incidence of sexual assault on women by Muslim men?
LeftisruiningCanada says
T Ramadan doesn’t ‘just happen to be a muslim’ lebel!
He’s one of the foremost islamic spokesmen and scholars known to western audiences, is the face of so called ‘moderate’ islam, engages in debates all over the place, and has ties to the Brotherhood organization.
If anyone’s actions could be said to derive from islam, Mr Ramadan’s can, especially since the koran and hadith literally ooze with such things because mohammad reveled in all of it, even with the very young.
H Weinstein however, doesn’t seem to value a morality that any Jew or Christian would recognize as being Scriptural, and, to my knowledge, hasn’t pursued a life of Halachic rigor.
The strangeness of your comparisons makes me think of an unbalanced scale.
gravenimage says
True, LeftisruiningCanada.
lebel says
By the way, I disagree that the Old Testament is dead letter to jews.
Norger says
I said the violent commands of the Old Testament are a dead letter to modern Christians and Jews. If you want to tilt at windmills and argue otherwise, knock yourself out, but the argument is breathtakingly unpersuasive. In TODAY’s world, Islam wins the “dangerous and hateful religion” contest, hands down.
eduardo odraude says
As many people have pointed out, the commands to violent jihad in the Qur’an are open-ended ones that hold good until the Day of Judgement. If one examines the context, these jihad commands were not restricted to a specific town or time. That is not the case of the violence in the Old Testament. The violent passages of the OT do not contain prescriptions for the future but descriptions of what “God” said to do to certain specific towns in the past. The limits involved are confirmed by the fact that Jews do not seek to convert the world into Judaism and even discourage conversion, whereas Muslims are under an obligation to bring the whole world under Islamic law and convert people to Islam either by persuasion or by imposing the pressures of discrimination, oppression, and subjugation. To escape such debasement, non-Muslims convert to Islam.
gravenimage says
True, Eduardo.
Jayell says
And no doubt this character still holds his post at Oxford? Whilst the likes of Mr. Spencer and others are gratuitously trampled on in the UK? That really makes us look good, doesn’t it?
StellaSaidSo says
Tariq Ramadan was fired from his position at Oxford in Nov 2017.
Jayell says
Nice to hear that! But I don’t remember a big splash about it in the papers.
StellaSaidSo says
No surprises there, LOL, the dhimmi lefty UK media not doing its job, as usual.
Michael Copeland says
They announced he had been put on leave.
Jaladhi says
Finally, the French show some back bone to detain this criminal scumbag!!
Jaladhi says
These scumbags are anointed great scholars of Islam – more like fake scholars of Islam. taqiyya experts!! And the real scholars who speak the truth are ignored.
StellaSaidSo says
It is a mistake to assume that the French have any love for Tariq Ramadan. He has been widely criticised in France for years, and his recent disgrace has not been ignored by French media. Ramadan’s habit of saying one thing to non-Muslim audiences, and another to Muslim audiences, has earned him the nickname ‘the viper’. He has also been criticised for his refusal to condemn huddud punishments, for his connections to terrorism, for his characterisation of his grandfather (Hassan al-Banna, founder of the Muslim Brotherhood) as an example to be followed, and for his anti-Semitism. French journalist Caroline Fourest published a critique of Ramadan, BROTHER TARIQ, in which she documented examples of Ramadan’s ‘double speak’, and his ‘slipperiness’ when confronted with direct questions. Although he has published many books and articles in French, Ramadan has never held a position at a university in France. He is equally unpopular in the Netherlands, where he has been described by politicians and academics as a ‘radical Islamist’, and ‘a wolf in sheep’s clothing’. Allegations of sexual assault against Tariq Ramadan came to light in Oct 2017, and he was taken into custody by French police on Jan 31 2018.
eduardo odraude says
Good to hear.
LeftisruiningCanada says
I thought we were supposed to “cherish our muslims”?
StellaSaidSo says
LOL, LIRC, must have been a ‘conspiracy theorist’ who told you that.
LeftisruiningCanada says
You’re right, he was certainly a theorizer of conspiracy.
11B40 says
Greetings:
Can’t help but wonder if this will show up on any of today’s France24 broadcasts ???
StellaSaidSo says
France 24 has covered the Ramadan story, Jan 31 2018.
lebel says
@StellaSaidSo
Surely it has become obvious to you that jihadwatch is pushing a conspiracy agenda. Look at all the posters utterly convinced that the French (or british) media/establishment is in collusion with Tariq Ramadan. This is because Robert Spencer pushes this narrative constantly. Anybody who knows France knows it is the exact opposite. Mr. Ramadan has been banned from speaking in the country on several occasions.
lebel says
Nevermind the above question, I just saw your reply on Obama and realized my question is completely meaningless to you.
StellaSaidSo says
I have seen no evidence that JW is ‘pushing a conspiracy agenda’, lebel. I agree that some posters have over-estimated French support for Tariq Ramadan, and I have tried to correct that misconception. The British media appear to be more sympathetic to Ramadan, no doubt because they are disposed to be sympathetic toward Muslims, regardless of how badly Muslims behave. Also, Tariq Ramadan was employed at Oxford University (a position which was funded by Qatar). Like most British universities, Oxford is dominated by the Left.
You accuse posters here of presuming that Ramadan is guilty, simply because he is a Muslim. Are you sure that you are not presuming he is innocent, for the same reason?
StellaSaidSo says
No, lebel, your question was not ‘meaningless’ to me. You just didn’t like my answer.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Yes, such a crazy conspiracy that for decades no action was taken against the islamic sex slave gangs in Rotherham because the police and council didn’t want to stir up ‘racial’ tensions.
Can’t be true, because lebel said so.
LeftisruiningCanada says
“You accuse posters here of presuming that Ramadan is guilty, simply because he is a Muslim. Are you sure that you are not presuming he is innocent, for the same reason?”
lebel doesn’t like it when his own standards are applied back to him. Hence the departure.
StellaSaidSo says
Indeed, LIRC, they behave the same in every forum. They have a terrible fear of the truth. It might set them free.
Carol (the 1st) says
@ lebel
Stella just revealed all that – a short 23 minutes before your admirably honest post,
lebel says
“There is far more evidence to support the claim that Obama is a Muslim than there is to support the claim of a ‘Jewish conspiracy’ against Tariq Ramadan.”
Which evidence? beer drinking? owning a dog? going to church? killing ben laden? pushing for gay rights?
There is plenty of stronger evidence of jewish conspiracy when it comes to Tariq Ramadan. All conspiracies have their own “evidence”, you are simply selective about the conspiracies you choose to believe in. In other words, any nonsense conspiracy that reinforces your pre-existing prejudices is just fine.
Remember the islam-is-the-light conspiracy? https://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/01/you-have-the-islam-is-the-light-doll-now-get-the-video-game
Michael Copeland says
Obama – “I’m Not The Strapping Young Muslim Socialist I Used To Be”
at White House dinner – see youtube.
StellaSaidSo says
LOL, of course he isn’t; he’s too old now to be a YOUNG Muslim socialist.
Check out ‘Obama Admits He Is A Muslim’ compilation on YT.
If this dude isn’t a Brother, he is the best damned enabler the Brotherhood ever had.
lebel says
That’s all you have to say concerning the “evidence” Michael posted?
you know what? I give up, this is an impossible task. I cannot possibly argue against you guys.
Jihadwatch wins!
StellaSaidSo says
Of course you give up, lebel. You always do when you’ve had your arse handed to you.
gravenimage says
Of course, Obama’s father was a Muslim, as was his Indonesian step-father. He was enrolled in Koran classes as a child in Indonesia as a child–there is documentation that he was registered as a Muslim.
Islam also holds that any child of a Muslim father is to be considered Muslim.
He may or may not be a practicing Muslim as an adult, but the idea that he is Muslim is hardly baseless, as lebel no doubt knows.
lebel says
Are you kidding me? do you not see that he is making fun of the conspiratards?
Oh man, somebody please come and tell Michael what’s going on. He won’t hear it from because he probably thinks I’m a secret master of super taqqiya.
eduardo odraude says
Not everyone here thinks Obama is a Muslim. I suspect he’s not very religious and is probably about as “Christian” as he is “Muslim.” He just becomes part of the majority religion wherever he goes. I suspect the more common view at Jihad Watch is that, because both of his fathers were Muslim, he is very sympathetic to Islam. As a leftist, he is sympathetic to the non-West (including Islam). Furthermore, as a youth at a school with Christians and Muslims, he seems to have attended services or the course for Muslims, when he could have attended the services for Christians. So to some extent, perhaps not very seriously, he was raised for a while as a Muslim.
lebel says
Are you kidding me? do you not see that he is making fun of the conspiratards?
Oh man, somebody please come and tell Michael what’s going on. He won’t hear it from because he probably thinks I’m a secret master of super taqqiya.
lebel says
Are you kidding me? do you not see that he is making fun of the conspiratards?
Oh man, somebody please come and tell Michael what’s going on. He won’t hear it from because he probably thinks I’m a secret master of super taqqiya.
gravenimage says
Lebel actually is correct that Obama is sneering at his critics here. Of course, sneering at someone does not mean they are wrong.
What is most notable, though, is that lebel is so enraged by this that he has spammed this post three times here.
StellaSaidSo says
lebel, indeed Obama is making fun of the idea that he is a Muslim – it’s called pre-emptive action. The cat was out of the bag, and he needed to get it back in, PDQ. You will notice that in my reply to Michael that I drew attention to the careful wording that Obama used. I don’t think Michael was presenting this YT clip as ‘evidence’ for Obama not being a Muslim; quite the opposite, in fact.
lebel says
You just “kicked my ass” again. Im off to “lick my wounds” and maybe come back for more ass whopping from the crew here.
Sorry Obama, looks like they’re on to you here. I tried.
StellaSaidSo says
You are being silly, lebel. The evidence supporting the argument that Obama is a Muslim is very substantial, and has nothing to do with anything so trivial as owning a dog or drinking beer. Whereas there is no credible evidence of a ‘Jewish conspiracy’ against Tariq Ramadan. Tariq Ramadan routinely whines about ‘Islamophobia’, and his anti-Semitism is so blatant that even the French can’t stomach him. You made the ‘conspiracy’ comparison, so let’s see your evidence.
lebel says
OK he is a Muslim. Finally I admit it.
The reason he had a dog was to fool the naive infidels into thinking he was a Christian. Jihadwatchers however can sniff that weak taqqiya a mile away. Same with the beer drinking. The dog has been tortured and killed btw
It was tough to convince Osama to let his buddy Obama kill him but it was for the greater good; or so we thought but jihadwatchers once again were watching.
The gay rights stuff was always controversial within the taqqiya community (ALL muslims) but we let it pass in order to introduce Shariah law into the US. That also failed unfortunately
So yeah, we got our arses handed to us.
StellaSaidSo says
You got your arse handed to you long before you mentioned Obama, lebel.
eduardo odraude says
lebel, notice that Spencer takes an agnostic position on the question of Obama’s religion. Spencer generally says something roughly like, “I don’t know if Obama is a Muslim, but it makes no difference, because he might as well have been, since so much of what he has done has benefited Islam.”
Nor is Spencer responsible for the views of all the people who post here.
gravenimage says
Exactly, Eduardo.
But lebel would much rather sneer at Anti-Jihadists, and pretend that this ergo means that they are wrong in saying anything negative about Jihad.
lebel says
There are jews who believe that this behavior is acceptable now
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/12/israeli-armys-new-chief-rabbi-accused-of-condoning-rape-by-soldi/
and there are those who think it is only acceptable under a full Sanhedrin. Others believe that non-jews will all be slaves of the jews when Messiah comes back.
https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/16937/are-non-jews-gentiles-permanent-slaves-to-jews-in-olam-habah
Acting more like Muhamad can also mean being kind to your parents and paying your debts btw
LeftisruiningCanada says
How do you manage these multiple posts? I always get a message saying it detected a duplicate post.
Must be a muslim conspiracy.
lebel says
I just got my ass handed to me by StellaSaidSo (gravenimage will be along shortly), let me have my little victories.
StellaSaidSo says
Still waiting on ‘evidence’ for your claim of a ‘Jewish conspiracy’ against Tariq Ramadan, lebel.
LeftisruiningCanada says
🙂
Carol (the 1st) says
hmmm…lebel has a sense of humor! Well, that must rule out an ibrahim itace alter ego.
StellaSaidSo says
@ Carol
A sense of humour is a rare thing in a Muslim, and it is lebel’s redeeming feature. I haven’t given up on lebel coming to his senses. At least he engages in debate, even if he doesn’t fully understand the rules. Ibrahim is a different story altogether. Completely pickled in the most violent and hateful brand of Islam, he is without intellect, and without humanity.
JawsV says
Acting like Muhammed means mass-murdering innocent people for Allah. And a whole bunch of other reprehensible things.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Anyway, i replied to lebels first posting of this comment a little above.
In short, his links don’t mean what he thinks they mean.
lebel says
I cannot reply to your post on the Rabbi’s comments. Here is the original question that he responded to in hebrew. The question is about the permissibility of rape in wartime. I’m sure you will continue with your apologetics however.
http://www.kipa.co.il/%D7%A9%D7%90%D7%9C-%D7%90%D7%AA-%D7%94%D7%A8%D7%91/%D7%99%D7%A4%D7%AA-%D7%AA%D7%95%D7%90%D7%A8-%D7%A9%D7%91%D7%AA%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%94
lebel says
Here is more information from the times of israel: “When the quote surfaced in 2012 and caused a media firestorm, he published a clarification stating that his comments were in no way meant to be applied in the modern era, but rather pertained to a theoretical discussion of the biblical permission for a Jewish soldier to kidnap an enemy woman and wed her.”
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-taps-chief-rabbi-who-once-seemed-to-permit-wartime-rape/
kidnap an enemy woman and wed her? normal sexual relations right? all right jihadwatchers, I’m sure you will go through tons of acrobatics to explain away this while under no circumstances would this be acceptable to you if a Muslim had said it.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Can’t reply? You mean it won’t let you reply up there? happens sometimes.
I’m glad that we can at least get past the false assertion that the Rabbi said it’s ok to rape women during a war.
““Obviously, in our times, when the world has advanced to a level of morality in which one does not marry captives, one must not perform this act, which is also entirely against the army’s values and orders,” he wrote.
The IDF on Monday responded to allegations against Karim, saying the colonel “wishes to clarify that his words were only uttered in response to a theoretical hermeneutical question, certainly not to a practical halachic question.
“Rabbi Karim never wrote, said, or even thought that an IDF soldier is permitted to sexually harm a woman during wartime,” the IDF Spokesperson’s Unit added in a statement.”
Which also addresses the issue of the practice of marrying a captive woman. AN interesting comment on the 972 site put it like this:
“Therefore, since during wartime, men do indeed desire women, if this area of human living was left unregulated, rape would indeed occur. But instead, the Torah commands that she be taken prisoner, left alone, treated with respect, and then given the option of conversion. You have only to look at Africa to see cultures that do not have the Torah, and still go to war and rape women. Then you would see how the Torah is designed to practically and actually constrain the sexuality of men in wartime, and through its structure, actually prevent rape.”
Seeing as this law was given a very long time before the koran, and Jews freely admit that it is not in play today, what does that say about muslims trying to imitate mohammads taking of a Jewish woman captive after having murdered her whole family, and then forcing himself upon her that same night?
Seems that Torah is better.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Torah also specifies that the woman married under these circumstances cannot be sold into slavery, but must be freed if a divorce should occur.
It’s hardly the kind of thing we deal with today in the West, but it’s quite a bit better than the usual lawless rape and pillage of other nations of the time, is still superior to how mohammad behaved himself, and is far better than attempts to copy him today.
eduardo odraude says
lebel, although it’s completely false, suppose for the sake of argument that Judaism, as you imply, is just as bad as Islam and just as prone to atrocities, terror, violence, totalitarianism, etc. Even if that were true — and it is a massive blood libel — but even if it were true, the Jews have only 15 million people and cannot threaten whole nations with the imposition of Jewish law. Jews in general do not even proselytize and discourage conversions to Judaism. Muslims have perhaps 100 times the population and can indeed take over nations by immigration (hijra, an early variety of Islamic jihad). Most Muslim nations do not have freedom of speech, whereas the only Jewish nation has raucous freedom of speech. But given Judaism’s tiny population, even if the lies you are promulgating were true, they would hardly be relevant. Judaism is no threat. Islam is most certainly a totalitarian threat.
eduardo odraude says
“do not even proselytize and discourage conversions to Judaism”
should read
“do not even proselytize. They discourage conversions to Judaism.”
LeftisruiningCanada says
Good points eduardo. Try converting to Judaism, they’ll do everything to put you off. (No, i didn’t try, but i’ve read about it)
gravenimage says
You can tell lebel is enraged on this thread, since he is now just wildly spamming.
lebel says
No I just notice once again that jihadwatchers accept things from judaism they would never accept from Islam. This is to be expected. See the “contextual” arguments above about the taking of female captives being not so bad (because its judaism and not Islam). Next we will see jihadwatcher justifying the ethnic cleansing of the Canaanites because it was “a long time ago” and war was “different back then”
I also note that you and other jihadwatchers are constantly claiming to be “kicking my ass” and congratulating each other on destroying me in debates. I guess you have that going for you 🙂
Here’s to jihadwatch kicking Muslim ass!
StellaSaidSo says
Get a grip, lebel. Judaism is not a threat to the survival of the planet. Islam is, largely because of its irrational hatred of anyone or anything not Islamic, and especially Jews.
‘They did it too, so they’re just as bad’ is not an argument, even if it were true. The fact is, that in the 21stC, ‘they’ (Christians and Jews) don’t live by bronze age laws, whereas Muslims not only do so, but expect others to do so as well.
While you persist in making ridiculous, unsupported claims, as you invariably do on JW, you must expect to get your arse kicked.
Norger says
You can’t possibly be serious in suggesting that that there is some sort of moral equivalence between Judaism and Islam because of historical accounts of battles between Jews and Canaanites. In a word, you are delusional.
It reminds me of Obama telling Christians to “get off their high horse” with respect to the steady drum beat of Islamic terrorism because of the Crusades–events that occurred nearly a thousand years ago. Don’t you understand the difference between descriptive accounts of violence in the pre-modern world and open-ended commands for violence, that remain n effect until the whole world is Islamic?
And yes, you have been getting your ass kicked on this thread because you keep leading with your chin. Reason and logic escapes you; all you have are emotional bromides and pathetic tu quoque analogies.
Carol (the 1st) says
Don’t let them make you feel bad lebel. It will be a lucky lady who someday wins your love over from Mohammed.
gravenimage says
I wrote:
You can tell lebel is enraged on this thread, since he is now just wildly spamming.
lebel replied:
No I just notice once again that jihadwatchers accept things from judaism they would never accept from Islam. This is to be expected. See the “contextual” arguments above about the taking of female captives being not so bad (because its judaism and not Islam). Next we will see jihadwatcher justifying the ethnic cleansing of the Canaanites because it was “a long time ago” and war was “different back then”
……………………………….
Well, this is just bizarre. “Spamming” refers to reposting the same comments multiple times–which lebel has done several times on this thread. It has absolutely nothing to do with what he posted above.
Further, I have never justified the taking of female captives by *anyone*. What grotesque calumny. Why is lebel addressing this to me?
And the fact is that if you go back far enough in history, *everyone’s* ancestors did some pretty appalling things. My background is English, Welsh, and French. I certainly don’t justify all ancient Anglo-Saxon or Celtic practices, which included such horrors as human sacrifice.
The question is what we are doing *now*. Israeli soldiers are not abducting Gentile women, as lebel pretends, because their distant ancestors may have done so thousands of years ago.
Would that this were true of Islam. Just recently, Muslims in the Islamic State kidnapped Infidel women and used them as sex slaves. Boko Haram has done this with schoolgirls in Nigeria. Muslims in Sudan have done this with Infidel girls. Muslims in places like Pakistan have also kidnapped Infidel girls, raped them, and forced them into marriage with their kidnappers.
Muslim scholars note that abuducting Infidel women and using them as sex slaves is valid today. This was affirmed by a scholar at Al-Azhar, the most prestigious seat of Sunni learning.
This is done on the model of Muhammed, and Muslims affirm that his actions are to emulated *for all time*. There is nothing like this in Judaism, as lebel pretends.
More:
I also note that you and other jihadwatchers are constantly claiming to be “kicking my ass” and congratulating each other on destroying me in debates. I guess you have that going for you ?
……………………………….
In fact, I have never once refered to “kicking [lebel’s] ass”. Why is he so very dishonest?
In fact, I haven’t seen *any* poster here refer to kicking lebel’s *ss, save for lebel himself. He even puts the phrase in quote marks, giving the impression that he is quoting someone other than himslef. Unless I have missed something on this thread, though, this is inaccurate. He first used this supposed quote in reply to StellaSaidSo, who didn’t herself use it.
All I do is expose lebel’s ugliness.
More:
Here’s to jihadwatch kicking Muslim ass!
……………………………….
What lebel is doing here is sneering at Jihad Watch successfully opposing Muslim savagery–including rape. He just goes on to expose himself further as someone who is fine with all the barbarism of Islam. Very disturbing.
Infidel says
I’m repeating this comment (obs) once again because this all non-Muslims should know,..
The likes of Linda Sarsour will play the American card like any other traitor Muslim just to milk all the benefits of American society that suits Islam and its advancement in the infidel land.. Therefore, she will scream :”Fellow Americans” to drum up max supp against true patriots who stand up to her Trojan anti-national antics… But the moment, the use of the American card is finished for her in any boiling issue which she and her likes will always rake up from time2time to create chaos in the infidel society… she will dump the “Fellow Americans” card like a bad habit and revert back to her pet Muslim card that she is Muslim first and then American last….. This is the same game that Muslims play in India as well as all over the world..
gravenimage says
Very true, Infidel.
Tom W Harris says
He looks like a character from a zombie movie.
infidel says
Lebel: I’m amazed that U undermine Ur own people ( believing that U are an American and not a Muslim in disguise)… Haven’t U read about the gory history of Islam in India… The same is in store for U guys too.. and they will not spare EVEN U LABEL.. even if U write comments in their support till Kingdom comes..
eduardo odraude says
Speaking of which:
“The Mohammedan Conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history…” — Will Durant on page 459, Volume 1, of his eight volume Story of Civilization
Here are a few excerpts from pages 459-462 of the same volume:
StellaSaidSo says
Eduardo, if you haven’t seen ‘Islamic Conquest of India, Bloodiest in the History of the World’ on YT, you might be interested to take a look. It quotes from Will Durant, and is a good summary of events.
lebel says
I don’t like reductionism. I don’t like it on Americans and I don’t like it on Muslims. We can’t have double standards on this, infidel, or none of it makes sense.
It it’s wrong to generalize on Hindus, it’s wrong to generalize on Muslims. Conquest has always been bloody and everyone has taken part in bloody conquest. Why hold the Muslims of today responsible for massacres committed by the Muslims of yesterday?
StellaSaidSo says
‘…everyone has taken part in bloody conquest…’
Here we go again: ‘they did it too, they’re just as bad, blah blah…’
No lebel, not everyone has taken part in bloody conquest, and certainly not on the scale that Islam has visited upon the world. 270 million people slaughtered, and millions more displaced or enslaved, is a record unsurpassed in history. And it hasn’t stopped. Every day, the death toll grows. All because of a vile, disgusting book.
Nobody holds the Muslims of today responsible for the massacres committed by the Muslims of yesterday. We hold the vile, disgusting ideology of Islam responsible.
But Muslims of today must bear some responsibility for the violence committed today, in the name of Islam, by their co-religionists. If Muslims are not standing up and loudly condemning the mowing down of pedestrians, the bombing of train stations, the slaughter of concert-goers, then it can fairly be concluded that they support the general aims, if not the methods, of the perpetrators of such atrocities. Where are the mass protests by Muslims against the violence committed by Muslims? There aren’t any. Muslims are more likely to protest a squiggle on a child’s sock than a jihad attack on a children’s concert. Which shows just how pathetic you are.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Yes, this is your answer lebel
lebel says
270 Million is not a figure supported by any serious methodology.
Once again, just because it confirms your pre-existing prejudices about Islam does not mean it’s true.
Linnte says
Lebel, Dr. Bill Warner is a physicist and doctoral mathemetician. He did the math and he claims 280 million humans have died at the hands of Muslims in the past. He hasn’t added up the numbers of the modern era of Islamic terrorists. Just how do you think Islam spread all the way to Spain and also India within 30 years after Muhammads death? By love and peace? Because Totalitarianism appealed to those nations? And how many slaves died from the Islamic slave trade? It’s been estimated that Islamic slavers captured nearly 20 million(mostly women) and 85% of those captured DIED before reaching their destination! AND LASTLY where are the progeny of those mostly women slaves in the Middle East TODAY? We see evidence of the progeny of American and S. American slave today but NONE in the Middle East! So, what did Islam DO with the babies born to Muslim slave holders? Why, they KILLED them of course. Dr. Warner didn’t include those babies as victims of Islamic Conquest.
This issue of numbers dead is a very DEEP and complicated subject Level. You need to sincerely study harder then ACCEPT the truth. Islam is evil and those deeply ingrained in evil cannot see WHY they are evil because Satan has blinded them.
StellaSaidSo says
WRONG, lebel,
The figure of 270 million is based on calculations derived from ISLAMIC SOURCES. The conquerors recorded their conquests in detail – GORY detail – and there is no serious dispute in scholarly circles as to the accuracy of the total. If you don’t believe me, look it up. I recall that some of these Islamic sources were posted on a JW thread just days ago.
Now, about that evidence for the alleged ‘Jewish conspiracy’ against Tariq Ramadan…?
Norger says
Wait a minute. Weren’t you the person who tried to draw a moral equivalency between Judaism and Islam because the Jewish people warred against the Canaanites at some point in ancient history?
To be clear, I agree with you that today’s Muslims can no more be blamed for the conquest of India than today’s Christians can be blamed for the Crusades. But today’s Muslims can and should be blamed for their considerable ongoing tacit and explicit support for the single most dangerous ideology in the world today.
Carol (the 1st) says
lebel wrote:
Why hold the Muslims of today responsible for massacres committed by the Muslims of yesterday?
~~~~
I think it has something to do with the old maxim that ‘those who don’t LEARN from history are bound to REPEAT it’.
Unfortunately too many muslims see ‘winning’ as proof of rightness and of their being collectively “simply the best, better than all the rest”.
gravenimage says
lebel is–once again–disingenuous here. Islam is a creed of conquest, and pious Muslims actually exult in this. Muslims are enjoined to force the whole world to submit to Islam, and can and do wage violent Jihad to bring this about.
Pretending this is a thing of the distant past is ludicrous.
Georg says
‘So honey, you’re whining are you? Stop pretending you don’t like it. You didn’t know what a real man was like before. Well, now you do.”…
Very progressive.
Mari For says
I am happy that my gut feeling again turned out to be right. Always thought that this man was a hypocrite and a liar. Every time I saw him on French TV, he reminded me of a sneaky snake. The more radical muslims will always defend this perverted idiot. It’s sad for those Muslims who genuinely are good people, who perhaps worship in a different way, but who don’t have death in their minds for non Muslims…those do exist. Of course those Muslims are looked upon as not being proper Muslims at all. I wish for the day that they will stop all their crazy ideology.
LeftisruiningCanada says
agreed!
Buraq says
@ lebel (without a cause!)
You asked: Why hold the Muslims of today responsible for massacres committed by the Muslims of yesterday?
No one is blaming Muslims of today for yesterday’s carnage in the name of Islam. The problem is the ideology – Islam; the teachings, the theology, the doctrines .. etc. Islam is at the root of the problem.
And that’s the source of Tariq Ramadan’s pornographic, obscene, indecent, improper, indelicate, crude, lewd, risqué, coarse, vulgar, gross, dirty, smutty, filthy, behavior – Islam!
LeftisruiningCanada says
Yes, and so is this lebel.
Carol (the 1st) says
Why forgive them for today’s carnage? They all seem to be working in tandem. Many willing cling to a sinful creed or neglect/refuse to see it for what it is.
StellaSaidSo says
@ Carol
Nobody has argued that Muslims should be forgiven for today’s carnage, Carol. Buraq clearly said ‘No-one is blaming Muslims of today for yesterday’s carnage.’
Mike says
At last !
Billy Chickens says
Filthy Islam was spawned from the filthy mind of the filthy Devil who told filthy Muhammad that he was Filthy Allah and to write his filthy words down in the filthy Quran.
Mari For says
OMg lol
LeftisruiningCanada says
baaah fizz fizz fizz
phemmy says
Please stop comparing this He-Goat and sex maniac with the Revered Gentleman Martin Luther. this is typical of most of them They live a double life.
gravenimage says
phemmy, Robert Spencer was not making this comparison–but others have. He was sacrastically referring to that.
This fawning article from Salon:
“Tariq Ramadan: The Muslim Martin Luther?”
https://www.salon.com/2002/02/15/ramadan_2
Georg says
Tariq Ramadan is Martin Luther and we are all Hitler. Checks out.
gravenimage says
Yes–it is a ridiculous comparison, Georg.