If we welcome the strangers and allow ourselves to change with them, we will end up accepting Sharia, which Welby just yesterday said was incompatible with British law. The Archbishop of Canterbury is not, apparently, a consistent thinker.
“Brexit and a broken Britain: The ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY says the inequality and division in the UK is our ‘greatest challenge since WW2,'” by Justin Welby, Mail On Sunday, February 24, 2018 (thanks to Blazing Cat Fur):
…Welcoming strangers to our country and integrating them into our culture is important. We must be generous and allow ourselves to change with the newcomers and create a deeper, richer way of life. We also need to support strongly those poorer communities that have had high levels of immigration….
“Archbishop of Canterbury says Islamic rules are incompatible with Britain’s laws which have Christian values,” by Steve Doughty, Daily Mail, February 23, 2018 (thanks to Blazing Cat Fur):
Sharia law should never become part of the British legal system, the Archbishop of Canterbury said yesterday.
Justin Welby said the Islamic rules are incompatible with Britain’s laws, which have developed over 500 years on the principles of a different culture.
He added that high levels of immigration from Muslim countries can ‘have an impact on the accepted pattern for choosing a partner, on assumed ages of maturity and sexual activity, and especially on issues of polygamy’….
He said yesterday in advance of publication that British law has ‘underlying values and assumptions’ that come from a clearly Christian tradition. ‘Sharia law is not just about punishments,’ he added. ‘It is something of immense sophistication, but it comes from a very different background of jurisprudence to the one from which British law has developed over the past 500 years’.
The Archbishop said in his book that the arrival of large numbers of Muslims in Britain – there are thought to be 3.3million here – has led many to challenge the values of the majority population. Among these are the right of people to choose their own husband or wife, and the need for monogamous relationships.
He added: ‘There has been and remains a demand for the introduction of those aspects of sharia law that affect family and inheritance…
‘The problem is reimagining Britain through values applied in action can only work where the narrative of the country is coherent and embracing.’ The Archbishop said: ‘Sharia, which has a powerful and ancient cultural narrative of its own, deeply embedded in a system of faith and understanding of God, and thus especially powerful in forming identity, cannot become part of another narrative.
‘Accepting it in part implies accepting its values around the nature of the human person, attitudes to outsiders, the revelation of God, and a basis for life in law, rather than grace, the formative word of Christian culture.’…
Ren says
To adapt to sharia is to regress and to go backwards.
shosh7154 says
Yes and to inevitably disappear off the global map as the British country of England and re-appear as another third-world failed muslim country,filled with poverty and ignorance run by a communist dictator.
Michael Copeland says
Dear Archbishop,
A quick brush-up on Sharia rules is here in rhyming couplets, Your Easy Guide:
https://libertygb.org.uk/news/your-easy-guide-sharia-law
Carol (the 1st) says
Hats off to you again Michael! A well-done poem that describes Sharia life quite perfectly (latecomers to this article should be sure to read it and save copies).
Maybe we can get a special copy made for the Archbishop with pages to the side where he can jot down his feeble thoughts as he considers the “immense sophistication” of the Sharia you’ve laid out before him.
His further comment ” We must be generous and allow ourselves to change with the newcomers and create a DEEPER, RICHER, way of life” makes you wonder who in the heck he thinks he’s kidding? Does he want a parallel legal system? Does he think fake smiles and hummus will be a cure-all?
In the video below (8:00 to end) Ayaan Hirsi Ali discusses the poverty of Sharia/Islamic life and how we actively need to market our own culture to muslims – especially in our schools. Western culture is “learned” like all other cultures and so we must refresh our appreciation and share it. If we don’t use our own DAWAH” she says “then THEIR DAWAH will overtake ours”.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali on Sharia Law and Political Islam (Pt. 2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjxhLlBX5j0
Carol (the 1st) says
Here’s something interesting – first showing in Toronto March 26/18 7:30 – 10:30
The Fight of Our Lives | Trailer
Defeating the Ideological War Against the West
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-_BV6L7-E0
Carol (the 1st) says
Things are picking up! Looks like some constructive ideas in this one! Produced by the Glazov Gang so Jihad Watch will hopefully show it soon:
Glazov Gang: What America’s Children are Being Taught
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5bCQH3vj9U
gravenimage says
Thanks for that link, Michael.
J D S says
Hmmmm….We have met the enemy…face to face..AND ….WE ARE IT!!!…..MERCY!
JawsV says
What a dingbat. Allah isn’t God, Archbishop. Allah is Muhammed disguised. Get it? Jesus is God.
LeftisruiningCanada says
You’d think that an Arch Bish wouldn’t need reminding of that, wouldn’t you….
JawsV says
You’d think.
Tony says
allah is a demon from hell
JawsV says
Allah is Muhammed. Islam’s a total fraud.
J D S says
Their allah is Satan! What is happening is absolute proof of that.
Noel says
Allah is Mohammed’s imaginary friend.
R Russell says
Would to YHWH he was. If you are unaware of the supernatural realm, you need to find out about the good – Jesus, and the bad, satan. Jesus is a real person who offers friendship to us out of love. Satan and his helpers, including Allah, are out to enslave us. Islam cannot be beaten without Christian prayer. Find out more by reading one of Jesus’ biographies online, eg John’s Gospel. Incidentally, the Bible Jesus is a different Jesus from the person found in the Koran.
Pet Charles says
Quintessential British double speak. They are busy trying to find a way to pit some group against Islam in the UK so they can have plausible deniability. But sooner or later they will be unmasked. They will be faced with a choice of “do or die”. Assert the UK values developed over 500 years or perish to Islam. Right now the attitude seems to be leave it to later generations to figure out a way to clean up the mess created by unregulated immigration and flat refusal to enforce the law equally to all REGARDLESS of race, color, creed or religion.
mortimer says
Justin Welby is ahead of many of the clergy concerning discriminatory Sharia law, and has more understanding of Islam than people know. I believe this is only the beginning from him.
If he says much more than this, however, many Anglicans will be MURDERED IN REVENGE in different Muslim countries! In Pakistan, Egypt, Nigeria, etc.
Segzy says
Hi Mortimer. I am always baffled at the portrayal of Nigeria as Islamic country, but it is an assertion, twisted though it is, I cannot reverse, sadly so. I’ll spare you the stress of deep research into this issue, Nigeria is not overly populated with Muslims, as she’s portrayed on the world stage, like in the despicable UN. I live in Nigeria, it’s my country, I know it in and out. I’m aware of my leaders stupidity, in caving in to Islamic push, after our independence.
Britain, in all her woes, has done more to hurt us, Nigerians, by giving the country over to the imbecile block of Northern, core North, that is, Muslims.
This block keep a stranglehold on power since 1960,till date, and depict Nigeria as Islamic, even when Christians in Nigeria form 60% of the country’s population, this percentage is on the rise, btw.
A lot more I could say, but will stop for now.
Meanwhile, Islam, the slimy dregs of the world’s religions, is full of lies, divinely sanctioned, so much that, to believe any claim of its adherents, without a serious second, etc, look, shows the naivety of most of the world population : a fact I hate to remember.
For example, do you really think Muslims are over 1.5 billion!? Just asking, but I digress
gravenimage says
Nigeria is about 50% Muslim, and Muslims there are making a final push to take over.
I hope to God it does not happen, but things do not look good. Northern states already practice brutal Shari’ah law.
gravenimage says
Mortimer, I don’t believe that things are so far gone in Britain that if someone speaks out agains the threat of Islam that it will lead directly to mass slaughter of the native population by Muslims.
Britain is about 5% Muslim–still horrifying, but these barbarians are *not* the majority, and native Britons are not living under dhimmitude–not yet. If good people stay silent this can can change, though.
gravenimage says
against
MR up-side-down says
Very Enlightened Synopsis #Mortimer, i am very very shocked really he as come out and said this..i am pleased he as.. read between the lines… we English are experts at that..i believe he as woken up.. and as spoken a hard truth and it is truth.. written between the lines of,, sounding accommodating .. he KNOWS hes wake
Gjallarhornet says
Weak, but still stronger from these people than we’ve come to expect. Let’s hope there is some moving of positions under the surface here. If this is the result of unrest in the wihtin Church of England on their ’embrace islam’-politics it is good.
Karen says
Yes. He is against Sharia (good) but not very clear otherwise, due to all the soft language. I appreciate the basic sentiment, but one can stand clearly and unapologetically for British/Western/Christian values and still be polite.
gravenimage says
Grimly true. Here is PM Theresa May:
“May Hails Benefits of Sharia as Inquiry Sets up into “Misuse”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/26/may-hails-benefits-of-sharia-as-inquiry-set-up-into-misuse-of-is/
“…she insisted that many British people ‘benefit a great deal’ from the guidance offered by Sharia teachings”.
mortimer says
Thereser the APPEASER.
Wellington says
Thanks for that link, gravenimage. Well, this was when Theresa May was still Home Secretary, about a month or so before the Brexit vote.
What a dope she is. Let’s see here. Sharia is fine but sometimes it is misused. Quite similar to the canard that Islam is fine it’s just been hijacked by some extremists.
No, Islam is not fine and Sharia is not fine. Theresa May, I believe, is destined to remain willfully ignorant of all this to the end of her days. As I said, what a dope. Unfortunately, she is a powerful and influential dope. Lots of them around at anytime in history but unfortunately even more than the usual quota in the present age.
gravenimage says
True, Mortimer and Wellington.
And the worst thing is that she was not the worst choice Britain had–she still was not as bad as the truly appalling Islamophilic Jeremy Corbyn.
Anne Smith says
she is indeed a dope.
Here is the proof
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFQslqJZ4qQ
Tom says
Can someone please explain why it is that our so called “leaders” are all morons?
The old saying about the cream rising to the top is way out of sync with what we have today as political and religious leadership.
I suppose we get the leadership we deserve but what the HELL did we do to deserve the village idiots that we have now running the western world.
Eagle says
The closer the leaders are to the Muslim theocracy the closer the citizens become to hell and Sharia Law.
WPM says
Our political; and religious leader are not the cream floating on top ,they are the turds in the punch ball of Western World floating on top. Their collective cowardly appeasement willing to sell us out on the cheap for money, power and approval of third world dictators dumping their” refugees” on our shores like unsorted trash. Uneducated , unemployable military age men raised in a culture of hating all Christian ,Jews, everything about Western law that incudes far play and the golden rule. Raised in a culture were women are object to be bought, barded and sold like used cars. Where children under the age of 12 are marry off to old men in there 50s .Were rape of girls of the unbelievers is a game everyone in the Islamic household can get into. Were men can have 4 wives with thirteen kid all on the dole and be proud because “they are the best of people” they are doing what the Koran tells them to do.
StellaSaidSo says
‘Can someone please explain…’
Our ‘leaders’ are largely globalist ‘plants’. They get the gig because they are already in agreement with the ‘One world’ agenda, or they are compromised and can be easily controlled. Welby is just another puppet with a dirty secret.
Tom says
Stellasaidso
Thank you for your response. My question was rhetorical because of course I know who they are. It was simply my frustration regarding the lunacy that appears to have taken hold in our political and religious circles being expressed.
StellaSaidSo says
Indeed, Tom, we both know who they are – but many people remain unaware, and one should never pass up an opportunity to educate!
Eagle says
Someone should ask the Mayor Of London what he plans to do about implementing Sharia Law.
Jayell says
He’s already started with the ban on scantily-clad females in tube adverts. Next he’ll have them in burkhas – unless London voters get shot of him at the next election.
gravenimage says
Grimly true.
gravenimage says
I miss Boris Johnson.
Jack Diamond says
“Sharia law is not just about punishments…(it) is something of immense sophistication”
Right. There is also something about jihad warfare against non-Muslims to establish the religion (Islam)
as the duty of every Muslim and Muslim head of state. There is something about a percentage of mandatory zakat charity tax to go toward jihad (mujahideen fighting in the cause of allah). There is something about a Muslim never being killed for killing a non-Muslim. There is something about the rules of slavery (an permanent institution in Islam practiced by its model of conduct). There is something about apartheid rules for non-Muslims living under Muslim authority (and returning to a condition of war should they breach any of those rules).
There is something about a woman’s word being half that of a man in court. About needing four male witnesses to claim rape (otherwise she is charged with admitting to fornication by making the charge itself). Something about no age limit for marriage. Something about a husband’s permission to beat his wife and divorce her just by his saying he does. Something about a dowry being given in exchange for the bride’s sex organs (the terms of the Muslim marriage). Something about allowing Muslim men sex with captive women. Something about a woman having to cover herself so she is not “abused”. Something about not taking non-Muslims for friends or allies (except to fake doing so) and retaining permanent enmity and hatred for them in their heart (even while smiling in their faces).
Immensely sophisticated.
This is not to even get into the immense sophistication of sharia directives on defecation et al.
gravenimage says
+1
Westman says
Oh, why not? Using smooth stones to clean oneself when there is no water. How do you clean the smooth stones?
Carolyne says
Immense sophistication? Am I in Wonderland? How sophisticated is it to kill one’s own daughter or wife? How sophisticated is it to beat your wife? How sophisticated is it to practice polygamy, Beheading? Torture animals? Rape goats, etc. etc. etc.
dumbledoresarmy says
Yes.
Sharia law is sophisticated… but it is an *evil* sophistication. Islam is riddled with deceit and elaborations of bizarrerie.
Perhaps one of our British jihadwatchers should send the Archbishop copies of 1/ the Barnabas Fund booklet “What is Sharia?”. And 2/ Rev Dr Mark Durie’s “The Third Choice: Islam, Dhimmitude and Freedom”, which analyses the carefully-calculated system of ultra-Abuse – economic, social, physical, political, spiritual, psychological and often sexual as well – that is the Dhimma. The Dhimma system is a big part of Sharia. It is very elaborate; it was developed by clever – but utterly amoral and evil – people. It is also fiendishly cruel and hideously ugly; it is EVIL.
Remind the archbishop that ‘sophistication’ and ‘evil’ are not necessarily mutually exclusive. A person, or a society, may be very very sophisticated and clever.. but also wicked and cruel. And horrendous cruelty is one of the defining marks of Islam, throughout its history.
Monty says
Many reckon that cream rises to the top. So does scum. There is no way that the leaders of the free world are not aware of Islam’s dangers. They just hope that somehow they can do the impossible; keep their nation free and accommodate Islam at the same time. Islam is like a Cuckoo. It comes only to force out the existing and replace it entirely. Christians should be the most vocal opponents of such folly as they have the most to lose. Still, calling the Church of England “Christian” is quite a stretch. It bears little resemblance to the the Christianity of the Bible.
Aaron says
So now they’re embracing the antichrist
The so called Christians need to defend their faith
Or they will be lost to eternity
Christ is the way,the truth and the light
Not some war lord who wants to destroy you and anyone
Who does not submitt
Ed Lee says
So, Islam is “ancient” and has “immense sophistication” (right, and I had lunch last Tuesday with the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy). Either this guy has never read the Qur’an (which I seriously doubt) or he’s a paid shill. How much did they have to pay him to betray his country?
StellaSaidSo says
‘How much did they have to pay him…?’
Probably not a lot. They simply promised him that they wouldn’t release the photos if he stuck to the script.
dumbledoresarmy says
Good grief.
Is that comment meant 100 percent seriously?
You really think that every single politician and religious leader in the entire western world – or beyond it, in most of the non-Islamic world, period – are being blackmailed/ threatened/ bought? Every . single. one???
StellaSaidSo says
‘…You really think that every single politician and religious leader blah blah are being blackmailed…?’
Did I say that? No, I did not, and well you know it. But a good many of them are being blackmailed, and you are very naïve and uninformed if you think otherwise.
Carol (the 1st) says
@dda…In a recent article here on JW (about an Italian boy who was raped in a train station) a poster mentioned the NDRANGHETA mafia in Calabria. A Youtube search showed a number of videos about them and NGO’s but surprisingly there were a few about a big AUSTRALIAN connection (seems to be mainly about cocaine and it reminds me of what Sheriff Bell said in “No Country for Old Men” – “…if you were Satan and you were settin around tryin to think up somethin that would just bring the human race to its knees what you probably would come up with is narcotics. Maybe he did.” I found it pretty depressing in regard to their sway on politicians.
You’re probably aware of this subject and the video doesn’t seem very relevant on Jihad Watch but I’ll post it here again:
The Australian Mafia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JURRFvRPlAc
gravenimage says
Far more of these fools are immersed in suicidal “political correctness”, willful denial, and virtue signaling than are being blackmailed.
Were that not the case, why would you also have so many ordinary Westerners who are also well disposed to hordes of Muslims flooding into civilized nations? It would not make sense to think that every silly person holding a “MIgrants Welcome” sign is doing so because there is a cache of embarassing pictures somewhere.
Moreover, of course, it would not make sense that it is *only* Leftists or Muslims who have access to such pictures or information, and only those who would otherwise stand against the depredations of Islam who have such compromising incidents in their backgrounds.
StellaSaidSo says
@ gravenimage
Nobody claimed that ALL of our ‘leaders’ are being blackmailed, or that ‘every silly person holding a “Migrants Welcome” sign is doing so because there is a cache of embarrassing pictures somewhere’. Do try to focus on what is actually said, not what you imagine is being said.
It is a fact that a good many of our ‘leaders’ are compromised. And you are very naïve and uninformed if you think otherwise.
gravenimage says
Stella–with all respect–I do not believe that a good many of our leaders are being prevented from speaking out against the threat of Islam because Muslims and Leftists have the goods on them.
That it would be mostly those who would otherwise stand staunchly against Islam who are so craven, and that many ordinary people hold the same stated views without having to be blackmailed, simply does not add up.
Is it mostly the well-known who have compromising material against them? Is it mostly the well-known who know all about Islam, but are too livily-livered to say anything, while those who are more obscure are more likely to be ignorant of the threat of Islam?
And are we to think that most of those who sound clueless about Islam are so compromised, or are some of them true believers who just have pristine personal lives?
And it is more and more difficult to keep personal pecadillos entirely private these days, in any case–that there would be compromising material, but that it would be discreet and easily concealed and known only to Leftists and Muslims who want people to keep quiet about the threat of Islam seems quite unlikely, even if you believe that many knowledgeable Anti-Jihadists are craven cowards.
StellaSaidSo says
@ gravenimage
You really do need to stop reading into a single sentence content that is not there. I did not say that it is ‘Muslims and Leftists who have the goods on them’.
Nor did I suggest that ‘ordinary people’ are being blackmailed. This ought to have been clear to you from my 8:50pm if not sooner.
And nor did I suggest that any ‘knowledgeable Anti-Jihadists are craven cowards’.
It is very clear from your posts that you have little understanding of the role played by blackmail in the exercise of political power, and even less of the sophistication of its operation in the 21stC.
Joe says
Yeah, I though the same. The Archbishop should read Summa Contra Gentiles which pretty much proved Muslims know nothing of God. That was 800 years ago, and the Muslims haven’t refuted any of the arguments.
I’m thinking that the Archbishop has never studied or prayed. If he had, how could he be so ignorant?
Timothy says
Maybe the Archbishop thinks that everything would be ok if the public and the supremacists would just hold hands and frolic through the woods.
Rich says
Timothy ,
LOL …..yeah as if everything is just hunky dorrie…….
This planet has lost its mind…..
These leaders love to plead ignorance ;
When after making stupid remarks the dung hits the fan , and comes back to bite them in the butt……
Billy Chickens says
Ohhhhh Islam kiss kiss kiss. Sharia lawwww smooch smooch slobber kiss.
Did Christ smooch and kiss Lucifer? No. But hey – Go Britain go! Pucker those lips and kiss your Islamic masters’ feet
CRUSADER says
Archbishop Welby Back To His Old Useless Self Again…
https://www.blazingcatfur.ca/2018/02/25/archbishop-welby-back-to-his-old-useless-self-again/
CogitoErgoSum says
That the Archbishop believes Shariah comes from an “understanding of God” and that the Quran is a “revelation of God” says it all. The man places value on the worthless and sows weeds in the fields of his Master. His recompense shall be according to his work.
Carol (the 1st) says
Yes, that actually is the worst of his statements. These religious men ought to get real or the flock will bow out or make a better try at organized religion.
gravenimage says
Abp of Canterbury: Sharia incompatible with UK law, but we must “allow ourselves to change with the newcomers”
…Welcoming strangers to our country and integrating them into our culture is important. We must be generous and allow ourselves to change with the newcomers and create a deeper, richer way of life.
………………………….
Is the Archbishop OK with those “changes” involving amputating the limbs of petty theives and stoning rape victims to death?
And what is “richer” about accepting this savagery?
More:
He added that high levels of immigration from Muslim countries can ‘have an impact on the accepted pattern for choosing a partner, on assumed ages of maturity and sexual activity, and especially on issues of polygamy’….
………………………….
Does that mean he is ready to to accept polygamy, forced marriage, and pedophiles “marrying” children?
More:
He said yesterday in advance of publication that British law has ‘underlying values and assumptions’ that come from a clearly Christian tradition. ‘Sharia law is not just about punishments,’ he added. ‘It is something of immense sophistication…
………………………….
What is so “sophisticated” about flogging someone who takes a drink or foregoes wearing Hijab, or who dares to criticize Islam?
More:
He added: ‘There has been and remains a demand for the introduction of those aspects of sharia law that affect family and inheritance…
‘The problem is reimagining Britain through values applied in action can only work where the narrative of the country is coherent and embracing.’ The Archbishop said: ‘Sharia, which has a powerful and ancient cultural narrative of its own, deeply embedded in a system of faith and understanding of God, and thus espece no ially powerful in forming identity, cannot become part of another narrative.
………………………….
Well, this is true. But for Muslims, that just means the they *impose* brutal Shari’ah on the native population. Doesn’t Welby realize this?
As for coherence, Welby certainly is not–is he saying that the horrors of Shari’ah have no place in civilized Britain, or is he saying that aspects of Shari’ah–or the whole evil shebang–can be used there?
I used to think that he was much better than the hideous Islamophilic Rowan Williams–now I’m not so sure. The sad thing is that he does appear to have at least some idea of what Shari’ah entails–many in the West do not–yet is still watery at best in opposing it–assuming he actually opposes it at all.
Michael Copeland says
The Archbishop speaks of English jurisprudence from a “background….from which British law has developed over the past 500 years”.
It is worth observing that written English law is well over 1400 years old. English law has a WRITTEN text, the Laws of Ethelbert, dating back to circa 600 preserved in the Textus Roffensis. The laws were set down in WRITING in English (Anglo-Saxon) some twenty years BEFORE the Mohammedan calendar began, in 622, when illiterate Arabs were propagating their texts through oral transmission, by learning and recitation.
Carol (the 1st) says
Yes, a deliberate “Britain Light” for the masses.
R Russell says
English jurisprudence is just that- English. It is not Scots law, which surprisingly is the law in Scotland!
DogOnPorch says
The frantic twitching of countries already swinging from the gibbet.
gravenimage says
That is a vivid but very grim image.
Indiana Tom says
If we welcome the strangers and allow ourselves to change with them, we will end up accepting Sharia, which Welby just yesterday said was incompatible with British law. Doublespeak.
Lydia Church says
Sharia has nothing to do with God, but only with the devil.
He is such a traitor, as they all are mostly!
The concept of sharia law coming up as applicable anywhere in Europe is laughable in the sense that this should not even be a question, or an issue. They already have a system of law in those nations. You can’t just bring your laws along if you immigrate to a new nation and expect the new nation to adopt them because you came there! If you don’t abide by the laws of the land then you get into trouble. You can’t just move to a western country and beat your wife and kids, cut off your daughter’s genitals, kill your older daughter out of ‘honor’, rape random women, and kidnap a sex slave for each of your sons and just say it’s ‘sharia law’! Like it’s a personal thing, but you are breaking the laws of morality! If a regular citizen living there did this, they would be convicted of murder, aggravated and premeditated murder, torture, mutilation, domestic violence and abuse against their wives and children, rape, kidnapping, and a host of other crimes of a sexual or violent nature! It’s like the basic laws of morality are being shaken with this too.
Lydia Church says
Also, this is like someone goes to visit a friend and stay with them for free for a few days.
They are the guest. And they are being hosted for free. Then, they start imposing their rules on the owners of the house.
I’d be like, “You’re outta here!” (as you see them flying through the air out the door…suitcases right after them…)
But these mouthpieces expect the citizens to be convinced that they need to alter their customs to go along with the newcomer, immigrant guests! Not so!
And I’m not talking about imposing things on the guest like when to brush their teeth, what food to eat, etc. It would be things like; don’t smoke in the house, no loud music, and uh, yeah, no wife beating.
CRUSADER says
More such Canterbury Tales!
“SOMEBODY please rid me of this man!”– King Henry II
SOMEBODY please send the Archbishop a copy of Mark Durie’s “THIRD CHOICE”
http://www.meforum.org/3244/the-third-choice
“Third Choice : Islam, Dhimmitude, and Freedom” — by Mark Durie
Reviewed by Mark Silinsky
U.S. Department of the Army
Middle East Quarterly
Spring 2012
Durie, an Anglican pastor and an accomplished scholar of issues involving Christianity and Islam, has produced a reasoned, comprehensive, and well-written book that is particularly apt for readers lacking an extensive background in Islam.
His title comes from the three choices that the classic religious texts of Islam offer “peoples of the book”: Convert to Islam, perish by the sword, or accept a second-class status, which modern analysts call dhimmitude. This last choice renders Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians subject to heavy social, legal, and economic discrimination enforced by the ruling Muslims and implying a status of perpetual humiliation.
The book’s first half clarifies the theological underpinnings of dhimmitude. Durie debunks some myths about Islam, such as the idea that jihad does not mean war but rather spirituality. He discusses the concept of abrogation in the Qur’an, used by Muslim exegetes to explain away seeming contradictions within the text. Durie shows how the more conciliatory verses of the Qur’an, quoted by contemporary Islamic apologists to underscore the peaceful nature of Islam, were written earlier in Muhammad’s career when his position was tenuous. However, the more militant, less-forgiving phrases that tradition claims were revealed to Muhammad in the winter of his life abrogate many of these earlier peace-oriented verses.
Durie gives many examples of dhimmitude, both historical and contemporary, which clarify the misery, fear, poverty, and degradation that framed the world of the pre-modern dhimmi. And what of dhimmitude today? Durie gives examples of Islamic-driven discriminatory practices in Muslim states. He also explores the self-inflicted behaviors in Western states, which mirror dhimmitude, that are driven by political correctness and fears of being labeled a bigot.
The Third Choice is a good first choice for those concerned about dhimmitude today.
================================================================
“Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?” ( from “Becket” , Henry II of England )
MFritz says
we must “allow ourselves to change with the newcomers”
And then you will become the newcomers. Because they will tolerate only their ideology in your country.
Georg says
Lovely that he doesn’t qualify what newcomers we should and shouldn’t change for. Just: Newcomer? We “must” change for you. What a stupid bastard. He is essentially saying anything non-British is preferable to what is British.
Robert Callow says
Abp of Canterbury: Sharia incompatible with UK law, but we must “allow ourselves to change with the newcomers”
Typical Anglican twaddle.
gravenimage says
Not all Anglicans are like this–but it is bad when you find this at the top.
Terra Nova says
Mr. Archbishop, if we would live by their Sharia laws and horrible crimes, you will not be an archbishop any more or have the English church. They would brake open the Vatican library and show us the lies that are in the Vatican library books (that’s why it is forbidden for men even to enter, strictly secret).
That would have happened already, if there were no protesters against the leftists/globalists/feminists.
Are you a real Archbishop and of Canterbury? It sounds so elitair. Because what I read , it is so full of c…. Pls read Jack Diamond, Monty, Gravenimage, Mortimer, Westman, balafala and all the others, who are well read, who do not want to accept murder, beheading, stoning, cutting of peoples hand, mutilate young girl, force them to marry old men, etc. I can not bring myself to further this list. And then to take away free speech from the countries citizens, who are paying for all this polygamy , and feeding people
and housing them, and give them all medical help.
But if there would not be people who dare to open their mouth, you would not have a job now, or “may be as a mediator,
I hope you will become a bit more sensible or a job in one or other Islamic club to better the relations
But, and I am sorry to say, but most churches and religions are going along with the ones, of whom they THINK will win. The fathers of the church know best, don’t they. It always was like that and still is, may be you can merge with the pope.
I hope you will become a bit more sensible to your fellow countrymen and that the UK and the other European countries don’t get conquered by your beloved religion.
Charles T Lawson says
I have come back to this post because I have just been here looking at this one , Now tell me WHO IS THE REAL ARCHBISHOP ? THE ONE IN THE UK OR THIS ONE ,https://jihadwatch.us1.list-manage.com/track/click?u=12857896c3097382b25b80a09&id=c6e916b68f&e=9c30bb0570
R Russell says
I have watched with sadness the changes in the Archbishop’s beliefs since he became archbishop. He needs to repent. I hope he is open to repentence
Anne Smith says
Latest news from UK – massive explosion in Leicester, quickly hushed up by MSM, not on the mainstream news broadcasts, and only inside in small columns in broadsheets. Looks like the cultural enrichers have now got hold of dynamite. First impression are they they blew themselves up while preparing a bomb surprise for the infidels.
ITV and BBC still concentrating on the terrible injustices done to the poor Syrians in their country.
StellaSaidSo says
Breitbart reported this yesterday, but details were sketchy. My conclusions concur with yours, Anne.
Meanwhile, the BBC warns us about the dangers of ‘populism’…
Carolyne says
I wish to warn of the dangers of the BBC.
StellaSaidSo says
Ditto, with bells & whistles!
FYI says
“We must allow ourselves to change with the newcomers”
That’s a typical dhimmiwit ,Whited Sepulchre speaking…..one who clearly does not know or understand islam’s koranic anti-Christianity.
The archbishop and the heretical “pope” francis should pay heed to the many warnings given in the Gospel…..especially Matthew 7 v 21-23;not many so-called Christian clergy will pass this test!
Many clergymen put on a good show for us ..
“……on the outside you appear good to everybody
but inside you are full of hypocrisy and sins”
Matthew 23 v 28
They try hard to look good on the outside and be everbody’s friend;Whited Sepulchres.
As I learned many years ago:
If it looks like a clergyman,wears the garb of a clergyman and talks like a clergyman..
1 It doesn’t mean it is even Christian
2 It is quite possibly a wolf disguised as a lamb
3 It may be sincere but you shall only know them by their fruits.
{Do they follow the Gospel themselves and preach it?}
Many of these senior clergymen(..in ALL Churches…)are either too morally bankrupt or lazy
to stand up for the Gospel values they pretend to follow.
Politicianophobia says
The Bishop of Bradford urges Christians to go to mosque
dumbledoresarmy says
Maybe some teams of full-on old-fashioned Christians should do just as the Bishop of Bradford says… but prepare beforehand by fasting and praying, and when they go, go as.. teams of exorcists.
Pray silently the whole time they are there: pray for the destruction of the mosques, for the binding and casting out of demons, for the spiritual liberation of the Muslims, for the exposure and failure of all jihad plots, and the deliverance of the UK from the hijra, the Muslim immigration-invasion.
gravenimage says
Here’s that disgusting story:
“Bishop urges congregations to go to mosque”
https://www.christiantoday.com/article/bishop-urges-congregations-to-go-to-mosque/125877.htm
I wish the Christians who take him up on this *were* knowledgeable about the savagery of Islam–but most of them probably won’t be.
Carol (the 1st) says
A negative action designed to break the ice with two-faced showboaters. Only the curious or optimistically uninformed or hummus hungry are likely to attend and they should be forced to bring INVITATIONS to the muslims to join them in their Christian churches.
I expect when that charming date arrives they’ll sit there all puzzled while the tea and crumpets get cold and stale.
Politicianophobia says
Jihad for Jesus will be held in March.
gravenimage says
*Ugh*.
Politicianophobia says
Lord Bourne, Minister of Faith visits church-mosque twinning programme.
Politicianophobia says
The Christian muslim forum receives grant to develop a Methodist-muslim project.
R Russell says
The Wesleys must be turning in their graves.
Politicianophobia says
Archbishop of Canterbury, JUSTIN WELBY becomes patron of the UK’s largest Christian- muslim organization.
Politicianophobia says
The government funds an additional 1.5 million pounds to the “New Neighbours” project.
Politicianophobia says
The programme run by the CHURCH OF ENGLAND brings the total funding to 9.5 million pounds.
Carolyne says
I have had two experiences with the Church of England. The first, at St. Paul’s in London, where the minister or whatever they are called, started preaching about St. Paul’s admonition that “Women should be silent in church.” He said that a husband could later explain the sermon to the wife if she didn’t understand. I got up and walked out, heels clicking on the marble floor.
The second was at Canterbury Cathedral at Christmas service with the last Archbishop of Canterbury, Baron Oystermouth (Honest,that was Rowan William’s title.) He preened his bizarre beard, marched in and out the church, coming back through a different door each time with a motley group of people in wigs. It was highly amusing, but not inspiring.
There’s no business like show business.
StellaSaidSo says
LOL, I would definitely have walked out of Canterbury Cathedral, Carolyne! The sight of that preposterous old hippie Rowan Williams reduces me to highly irreverent laughter. What an embarrassment he was.
gravenimage says
Carolyne, I’m sorry your experiences were so negative.
Politicianophobia says
The Christian muslim forum funded by the Baptist Union of Great Britian.
Politicianophobia says
The Church of Urban Fund, Communities and Local Government, Community Development Foundation, Diocese of Lichfield.
Politicianophobia says
The Inter Faith Network, St. Ethelburga’s, Near Neighbours, The Three Faith Forum, Touchtone, The Feast, London Inter Faith Centre.
Politicianophobia says
A long time ago, I asked Rowan Williams to step down–told him I did not believe Christians should turn their backs on God. I quit going to the Anglican Church. Enough.
UNCLE VLADDI says
As noted elsewhere, and as a certain infamous character (not me) recently penned it:
“There’s a war on, for your mind. In this war, no man is neutral. You are either a soldier, or you are territory to be conquered.
People like to think they have ideas, but this is really only true for a select few. In most cases, people don’t have ideas, ideas have people. Minds are territory which ideas control. Ideas which control great swaths of territory thrive and conquer new lands, while ideas that lose all their territory cease to exist.
Ideas thusly struggle to survive, to crush their rivals, and to gain new ground. When cornered and in imminent threat of extinction, they fight harder than ever.
But ideas do not compete on a level playing field. Truth and lies battle not as equals, but as David and Goliath, respectively. The truth must travel a narrow and often predictable path through a gauntlet of its enemies who cast projectiles of doubt and distraction in perpetuity. Lies meanwhile enjoy the freedom to change form and tactics at will.
The truth can, and often does, make the bearer quite uncomfortable. Lies enjoy the anesthetizing features of a blood parasite’s bite.
While lies must ultimately fail due to their inability to accurately interpret reality, this does not make victory inevitable for the truth. Lies can destroy the mind of the bearer, salting the earth, and leaving no ground for truth to hold.
This is the threat of the leftist menace in America today. The Democrat plan for America is to open the borders, neuter the police, subsidize sloth at the expense of production, borrow without limit, disarm the law abiding, criminalize self defense, glorify homosexuality, sterilize women, and murder the unborn. It’s not a policy disagreement, it’s literally a plan to destroy our race and nation. Anyone who isn’t fighting that as a literal threat to our survival, is an accomplice to our demise, and anyone who is will earn for himself the most ruthless and hostile enemies imaginable.
None of this is in effort to prevent people from being offended. It is an effort to prevent people from being convinced. They are attempting to eradicate our ideas from the world, and they will put a bullet through every last mind containing those ideas if need be to accomplish the goal. You cannot avoid the conflict. You can either fight to prevail, or you can be a helpless victim of the enemy onslaught.
Either way, let there be no confusion. It is not a mere matter of preference. Either we win and set matters right, or we lose and mankind dies with us.”
Badger says
I am impressed
Badger says
“‘Sharia law is not just about punishments, It is something of immense sophistication”
He must have skipped over the bits about stoning, amputations, wife beating, beheading, polygamy and killing all Jews.
Mikep2 says
Apparently it would have been a better strategy for the Nazis had they characterized Nazism as a religion. It would have worked in places where the government and institutions of a country were willing to sacrifice their culture and freedom on an altar of multiculturalism. Places like the UK.
That would have made as much sense as considering the malignant civilization-destroying all-encompassing intolerant ideology of Submission (Islam in Arabic) to be just another “religion” worthy of respect and tolerance.