Clearly Sweden wants jihadis, and is going to get what it wants.
“Sweden wants to deport American student while giving jihadis housing and benefits,” Voice of Europe, February 11, 2018:
Andersson, who studies at the Uppsala University, transferred some money to her parents’ account in the United States for safe-keeping.
Therefor her balance dropped below the ($10,126), the amount foreign students should have in their bank account to get a residence permit.
The American student immediately returned the money to her Swedish bank account when she realised her error.
Andersson told The Local she feels “very frustrated” and said “It’s very aggravating to deal with school and everything going on at the same time. I wanted to study and get my degree and it feels that they don’t want me to do that.”
She added that she showed the authorities that she can support herself for the whole year, but according to Andersson they said “You can’t do that, you can’t just take money out and put it back in”.
Meanwhile for jihadists in Sweden it’s the opposite story. A “rehabilitation program” in the city of Lund wants to give former Isis fighters housing, employment and financial support.
Anna Sjöstrand, a Swedish municipal coordinator against violent extremism, says, “It is much cheaper to reintegrate a person into society than to abandon them”….
No Muzzies Here says
First of all, she is American and the dreaded “White.” She is not welcome in Sweden, but her money is. Muslims are the preferred class now, and she is good only for her money.
Sweden has willingly chosen to destroy itself, and nothing is going to stop it.
Andy says
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuwaL9ajSkk
Andy says
Islam: Coming to a town near you!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohHjJAnTXow
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
First of all, she is American and the dreaded “White.” She is not welcome in Sweden, but her money is. Muslims are the preferred class now…
By now surely some Swedes have converted, er, reverted to the true religion of Islam. What does the Swedish gubmint do with white Moslems? This could be a problem along the country’s way to national suicide. Damn, and I thought assisted suicide and aborting babies was easy now…
CRUSADER says
Original Swedes were dark haired, hooked nosed, short swarthy folk who praised the original god of gods, Odin, no…no….Thor….uh….um, no….Allah…yeah, that’s it. So, it’s all about reverting….these daze.
brenrod says
I am as sick of sweden as I am of muslims
J D S says
Sweden???Well what can I say that has not already been said about this backward European country…..
Jerry Zavage says
To Sweden not all immigrants are equal. Were is the U.S. Consulate when they are needed?
Chris says
Writing the script for the Swedish version of ARGO.
Terry Gain says
Sweden’s decision is perfectly understandable. She’s not wearing a Hijab.
LeftisruiningCanada says
It’s true. They don’t want her sort upsetting the ‘community harmony’.
But maybe what they do want is to fine her a sum of dollars to stay….every little helps when the State is funding everything.
Jim Conch says
Anna Sjöstrand, a Swedish municipal coordinator against violent extremism, says, “It is much cheaper to reintegrate a person into society than to abandon them”…. What she should have said, it much cheaper to not let them into their country in the first place. Then they do not have to worry about ‘abandoning’ the poor dears.
Frank Anderson says
If she were my daughter I would much rather have her out of that _ _ _ _ hole. Their bureaucrats need simple tests to see who they will “allow” in their control; so the minimum bank balance is just 1 way to save them exercising judgment. Think of all the other ways reason and judgment have gone to hell in Sweden?
Come back home and make America better!
Carolyne says
My opinion too, Mr. Anderson. But why is this girl in Sweden anyway. Aren’t there American Universities to suit her needs? On second thought, I wouldn’t allow my daughter to be there in the first place.
Frank Anderson says
Carolyne, there can be academic or professional advantages to the plan she had for her life. It’s her choice as long as whomever is paying the bills goes along. I hate to observe that she can’t be all that bright to allow her account to drop below the deportation trigger.
It could be like a number of events in my life where a real catastrophe turned into an opportunity. I got out of San Francisco in time to avoid the earthquake and the bankruptcy of the company that employed me, the only one of its kind in US history. She just might avoid a real nasty civil war in Sweden and live a downright wonderful life. (Wish for her what I wish for myself!)
StellaSaidSo says
Wise words, Frank.
Frank Anderson says
Thank you.
Ghost Prime says
Islam has been at war with the world since it was created by mohammed. They just don’t wage it openly when they don’t think they have the forces to win. The muslim brotherhood openly declared war with the West and they have a written plan on how they are fighting it. That plan can be downloaded so get it so you can see for yourself. It is cultural jihad which they are using in Europe and America, waging war silently until they think they are ready, then they will attack openly.
Our governments know this but they think they can use the muslims to force their NWO on us all, but muslims are equal opportunity murderers and will gladly kill government personnel as well as anyone. Our government is doing what Europe is doing, namely aggravating sub-racial animosities and adding to it by using the phony buzz word multiculturalism to create even more division.
Sad to say that citizens are threatened by their own governments while being threatened by invaders disguised as refugees or illegals, both of whom have no love for America and both of whom will kill Americans if paid. Not sure how we can prevail though I know if we repent as a nation, God will lead us to victory as He once did.
Carolyne says
How do we repent as a nation? Force everyone to become Christian? And what was the occasion when “God” once led us to victory? I have done nothing to “Repent” for. If we wait for a supernatural being to save us, we are truly lost.
Frank Anderson says
ONLY for information, there is a Jewish prayer that says pray as though everything depends on God; but act as though everything depends on us. I THINK the suggestion is that prayer can help get us focused and then moving. There are bound to be alternatives to prayer that achieve similar results. I believe we agree that results matter more than means.
CRUSADER says
There is a humility and a self responsibility found in that prayer.
Frank Anderson says
After doing a *lot* of studying, listening and praying for about 25 years, I agree. I remain amazed at how much is unknown of Judaism by followers of a Jewish man. I think He would want us to learn more.
StellaSaidSo says
+1
CRUSADER says
Islam has — even as early as when Mudhammam was in Mecca prior to moving to Medina to plot and to experiment — been about conquest from early on, nearly from its inception.
Khomeini asked his imams to halt their quoting of the more peaceful verses but to, instead, concentrate on the blessings of warring and fighting encouraged by Islamic texts. (1981)
Booty has been important to such conquest culture.
Michael Copeland says
“Prophet had sword to kill people.”
Khomeini
gravenimage says
Most Western governments are just as clueless about Islam as are many of their citizens.
Rob says
Altogether too true, GI. Think of Sharia May,, turning up as a mosque, praising the Ms for their wonderful contribution to the UK’s society…was she thinking of Manchester and London Bridge perhaps?
Rob says
AT a mosque…!
gravenimage says
Yes, Rob–and there are many more like her.
Chris says
Very well said!
MFritz says
So she has to go because of… white suppremacy?
If Sweden was the HMS Titanic, her last signal wouldn’t be an SOS-signal, it would be a virtue signal. Going down!
CRUSADER says
clever.
Well, if Sweden is the Titanic….
USA should be careful it doesn’t become the Lusitania.
LeftisruiningCanada says
The content of the signal might be something like:
“We deserve this, for all of our hateful icebergaphobia”
Sharyati says
“He whom the gods choose to destroy goes mad first”.
Looks like the Pagan gods of Sweden have chosen to destroy this nation of politically correct suicidal fools!!! That is why the are making them mad. Shanti Shanti Shantihi Sweden!!!
Carolyne says
Correct Longfellow quote: “Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad.” This refers to “gods” in the plural, so I assume when the “Pagan gods” are referred to, it is an admission that they exist?
This has nothing to do with myths, pagan or otherwise. It has to do with the Swedish people throwing away their heritage in exchange for a barbarian culture. They are the human equivalent of lemmings.
Sharyati says
Obviously Carolyne i meant it to be a metaphor
Masood says
There is nothing authentic given in this article regarding “Sweden welcoming Jihadist” while you people are shouting on the law which is equally implemented on everyone else except Europeans. Is this just because she is an “American” and you want to maintain the American Supremacy in the world. I am also a student at Uppsala University, and I can tell you that there are other students also who face problems continuing their studies due to these laws but they never accuse the state falsely.
CogitoErgoSum says
So you are saying Sweden does not give housing benefits to people who either are jihadis or who sympathize with jihadis? Does being quiet about a bad law make it a good law? And yes, I am for maintaining American supremacy in the world. Who would you like to see in that position?
Carolyne says
Absolutely Cogito. Absolutely.
Carolyne says
In part it is because she is an American and really has no business in that soon to be barbarian country. She should come home to safety. And that, Masool, is indeed authentic.
Masood says
I think the ideology you people are following will soon make your own country barbaric.
There should be some diversity in the society and acception to the people who doesn’t belong your own caste, Creed, culture or religion. Without it societies become narrow minded and easily radicalised.
CogitoErgoSum says
Of all the nations that have ever existed which is your ideal?
CogitoErgoSum says
While you are thinking about that, Masood let me say that it seems to me that any nation that has achieved a dominant position has gotten there due to the cohesion of its people in working toward a common goal. Any diversity of people in a dominant nation came later and towards the downfall of the nation. Was Rome more diverse at the beginning or at the end? Was Egypt or Greece or Alexander’s empire? Did the invading hoards of diverse barbarians make Rome stronger or weaker? The sun never set on the diversity of peoples within the British Empire, yet now its a mere shadow of its former self.
Tell me where I am wrong but it seems to me unity is more important than diversity.
StellaSaidSo says
Why should we accept ‘diversity’? Islamic societies don’t accept ‘diversity’.
Are you saying that Western society is ‘barbaric’? If so, why do you choose to live in a Western society?
Masood says
I have never said that Western Society is barbaric. In fact, I said otherwise. Please, read it in a context. Someone said, “Sweden is soon to become a barbaric country”. I responded to that by saying that its diversity will save it from becoming a barbaric country. Now, read the previous thread to understand the whole argument clearly.
And yes, in my opinion, the so-called Muslim countries have become barbaric because they lost their diversity. The western society is peaceful yet just because they don’t give a damn care to differences amongst citizens and follow the policy of Equal Rights for All. But, this kind of discrimination is a threat to peace in the society. I have expressed my idea against “The American Supremacy” and “Discrimination of Muslims” which is used as a tool to malign Swedish current policy just to sympathize the American student. I mean, there are many other International students also who are facing the same problem. So, the point is that “If the law is wrong, then it is for all the International students studying in Sweden, not just for the American students” and “accusing Sweden as ISIS sympathizer, just because an American student denied residence permit is SO WRONG”. Otherwise, my sympathy is with the student, I can feel her pain.
StellaSaidSo says
It was a question, Masood – ‘Are you saying that Western society is barbaric?’ – aimed at clarification of your position. A simple Yes or a No answer would have sufficed. Your English is ok, but not quite as good as you think it is.
You claim that Muslim countries ‘have become barbaric because they have lost their diversity’. What diversity? Muslim societies have never tolerated diversity, except on unequal terms.
Masood says
No, not at all.
I know I am not good at English but I don’t know why you can’t understand a simple thing. I said, “Read my comments, in a proper context” (because it’s misunderstood) and then probably you’ll find the answer to your next question also.
StellaSaidSo says
‘I don’t know why you can’t understand’
Er, maybe because of your English? It seemed simpler just to ask for clarification than to try to make sense of a sequence of posts.
c matt says
narrow minded and easily radicalised
Or, focused, productive and secure. It depends entirely on the society, not the diversity. A homogeneous West created far more than a “diverse” West. Diversity + Proximity = War.
gravenimage says
Masood wrote:
I think the ideology you people are following will soon make your own country barbaric.
………………………..
What ideology might that be? Is Masood pretending that Western democracy is barbaric? I’m sure he much prefers the savagery of Islam.
More:
There should be some diversity in the society and acception to the people who doesn’t belong your own caste, Creed, culture or religion. Without it societies become narrow minded and easily radicalised.
………………………..
The idea that civilized Sweden needs an influx of violent Muslims lest she become “narrow minded and easily radicalised” is simply grotesque.
More:
And yes, in my opinion, the so-called Muslim countries have become barbaric because they lost their diversity.
………………………..
You mean that so many of them have murdered all of their Infidel population, and now have to move on to new victims?
More:
The western society is peaceful yet just because they don’t give a damn care to differences amongst citizens and follow the policy of Equal Rights for All. But, this kind of discrimination is a threat to peace in the society.
………………………..
Masood is saying that if we act to protect our society from Jihad and Shari’ah that this is a “threat to peace”.
He is talking about the “peace” of Islam, where no one can be allowed to live unless they submit to Islam. *Ugh*.
More:
I have expressed my idea against “The American Supremacy” and “Discrimination of Muslims” which is used as a tool to malign Swedish current policy just to sympathize the American student.
………………………..
Masood here wants to pretend that rapist Muslims contribute just as much to Sweden as this student did. Nice try…
Ray Jarman says
+1
StellaSaidSo says
Let me guess, Masood; you’re a Muslim, right?
Masood says
Yes, but an Ahmadi Muslim and FYI Ahmadiyya Muslim Community is the most persecuted community in those politically radicalized Islamic countries, so I have nothing to do with that set of mind. But, things should be seen in their real perspective, the ignorance of reality will not take you anywhere. To assess things in their real perspective you have to do some research. I suggest you do some research about our Caliph’s efforts to establish peace in the world before making more blind guesses and judgments.
StellaSaidSo says
As it happens, Masood, I have done quite a lot of research, and I know that Ahmadiyya Muslims reject violent jihad, for which they are to be commended.
I also know that they read the same Koran as all the other Muslim sects read, and that they have the same ultimate goal: a global caliphate.
Their first loyalty being to Islam rather than to their adopted country, Ahmadiyya can no more be fully integrated into Western society than can any other Muslim sect.
Islam is a supremacist ideology, and is compatible with Western democratic freedoms and values.
StellaSaidSo says
Correction: ‘is incompatible’
gravenimage says
Masood wrote:
Yes, but an Ahmadi Muslim and FYI Ahmadiyya Muslim Community is the most persecuted community in those politically radicalized Islamic countries, so I have nothing to do with that set of mind.
……………………………..
Yes–Ahmadi Muslims are persecuted for not believing in violent Jihad, But they still want to see the imposition of brutal Shari’ah law, so this is not really true.
And many Ahmadis are fine with slinging Taqiyya–pretending that their rejection of Jihad is orthodox Islam.
More:
But, things should be seen in their real perspective, the ignorance of reality will not take you anywhere. To assess things in their real perspective you have to do some research. I suggest you do some research about our Caliph’s efforts to establish peace in the world before making more blind guesses and judgments.
……………………………..
Oh, many of us have done just that. No–we don’t believe that living under the oppressive savagery of Shari’ah law is “peace”. *Ugh*.
CogitoErgoSum says
Yes, the ultimate goal of establishing a caliphate is to unify all the people under one law (Islamic) and one religion (Islam). Come on, Masood, your goal is not diversity; your goal is unity. So stop the hypocritical talk about the benefits of diversity.
Masood says
There is a bit difference between your concept of a caliphate and our implementation of it. Our goal of the Caliphate is to establish unity among the followers of Islam, and not bringing the non-followers forcefully under the flag. Instead, we are taught to respect other opinions and deal them with proper arguments. Since free thinking and difference of opinion remains there so the diversity also remains there. Our struggle is 129 years old now, I suggest you do research on it and I guarantee you’ll not find any violence. We have sacrificed our own lives but never taken a single life ever. A community is established its roots in 207 countries of the world now with millions of followers belonging to different races. So, now do tell me why you think I am hypocritically talking about diversity.
CogitoErgoSum says
I think maybe your idea of a caliphate must be different than that of other branches of Islam. So you do not accept verse 9:20 of the Quran about fighting the unbelievers until everyone submits to Islam or pays the Jizya with willing and humble submission? Just what do you think is the meaning of that verse?
Masood says
We believe in each and every verse of the Holy Quran. But, it should be taken in a proper context.
Among the prophecies of Prophet Muhammad P.B.U.H regarding the second coming of Messiah, He said: “He will fight with the people for the cause of Islam, He will put an end to war and abolish Jizya”.
He will fight but there will be no war clearly means that here the fight is not physical but its intellectual. We believe that this verse is about fighting the disbelievers intellectually rather than physically.
So, we believe in “Jihad of Pen” not in “Jihad of Sword”.
Ray Jarman says
Tell it to those who are being killed in Nigeria, Kenya, Syria, Libya and all nations where the cult of the pernicious pedophilic perfidy mass murdering slug who are being slaughtered daily and explain how they died by the pen. Explain it to the few Christians that have not been slaughtered in Pakistan how jihad is not being carried out by the sword or the Buddhist in Burma that have been penned to death or the people that died by the benevolent pen on September 11, 2001. Even your own intellectuals (I use the word extremely loosely) explain that the sword is the foundation of jihad.
I will be eagerly awaiting a reply.
Masood says
For your kind information, we Ahmadies are the most persecuted community in Pakistan more than Christians. We have never been given a right to practice our own religion nor given a right to cast a vote in elections. We have been mass murdered for what we believe. But, we stood firm and never give up our cause. Many of us migrated, including me to find some better place.
We spoke against ISIS and Boko Haram also which is on record. Still we are fighting intellectually to spread the real Islam instead of that politically radicalised Islam.
Now, I must ask you:
From where these militant groups getting their resources like weapons and funds?
Have you ever asked your own country that why are they selling weapons to them?
Ray Jarman says
Masood, I must admit to my ignorance concerning your people’s plight. When I worked at the US Embassy in 2002, I was not aware of the situation. I will write a letter to one of our congressmen with whom I have conversed in the past. May God bless your people and thanks for the insight.
Most Respectful,
Ray Jarman
Masood says
I truly appreciate it, Sir.
CogitoErgoSum says
Sorry, about the typo. I meant to refer to verse 9:29 of the Quran.
CogitoErgoSum says
Peter, I find it interesting to see how they think. I guess if you find it boring you can scroll past what you don’t wish to read.
StellaSaidSo says
The Ahmadiyya sect’s rejection of violence is to be applauded. However, given the frequency of injunctions to violence in the Koran, it would seem unlikely that the idea will catch on among mainstream Muslim populations.
‘…not bringing the non-followers forcefully under the flag…’ In other words, the end goal of the Ahmadiyya is exactly the same as that of the mainstream sects: the conversion to Islam of all ‘non-followers’. At which point, presumably, your much-vaunted ‘diversity’ disappears. Clearly, therefore, ‘diversity’ is not a value in itself, so much as a temporary situation prevailing during a transition phase. So yes, you are hypocritical when you talk about diversity.
Masood says
I said “NOT bringing the non-followers FORCEFULLY under the flag” and when you spread an idea intellectually, obviously you cannot convince everyone. Then how can you make this conclusion
“…the end goal of the Ahmadiyya is exactly the same as that of the mainstream sects: the conversion to Islam of all ‘non-followers…”
this is just a SENSELESS.
CogitoErgoSum says
Ah yes, I’m getting the old “proper context” explanation again. I suppose I won’t get the “proper context” until I learn ancient Arabic and only then will I be able to understand just how beautiful the Quran really is and that war really means peace and fight means hug and diversity means unity. Oh, my my, I just want to cry.
Yes, the Quran is a miracle alright in it’s way never to be able to be interpreted correctly. We all must learn ancient Arabic. Right there is another one of those unifying factors …. just right there. Muhammad was perfect but he wasn’t quite able to express himself perfectly.
From what I’ve read about your religion in the past few hours, it’s all about unity …. not diversity. Unity is your goal …. I’ve ended up back where I started.
Masood says
Your comment is highly exaggerated. From proper context, I didn’t mean that non-native Arabic can’t understand. I myself is a non-native Arabic, but I try to understand and I didn’t felt any difficulty in it. The only thing is to remove misconceptions from your mind first and try to understand clearly what the topic is all about. Then you can make arguments, like you did before and I like it.
CogitoErgoSum says
Masood, I do think your Ahmadiyya religion’s founder and his followers believe in non-violence but it is by trying to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. The Quran just does not say what your religion is trying to make so many people believe it says. The vast majority of Muslims do not accept your interpretation of Muhammad’s message. Now I do like some of what you believe about love of God and love of neighbor but that is what Christ taught … that is, love God and treat others in the same manner as you would wish to be treated yourself. To me those things are the essence of Christianity. The message is simple and to the point. The common man wants that simplicity. He doesn’t want to wade through volumes of philosophical works in order to find an explanation of what should be obvious to him in just a few sentences.
Can you tell me in just a sentence or two what the essence of your religion is? I think you are closer to being a Christian than you are to being a Muslim ….. and about 6 billion Muslims in world must think that also considering how they persecute you. Christians are not the ones persecuting your religion.
Masood says
The essence of Islam is to serve Humanity.
Look what the Holy Quran says:
“You are the best people ever raised for the good of mankind because you have been raised to serve others; you enjoin what is good and forbid evil and believe in Allah.” (3:111)
“And do not forget to do good to one another.” (2:238)
“and we have sent thee not but as a blessing (mercy) for the entire universe (for all peoples)” (21:108)
“Verily you have in the prophet of Allah an excellent model.” (33:22)
The Holy Prophet PBUH once said: “One who is not grateful to mankind is not grateful to Allah.” (Tirmidhi)
The Promised Messiah (peace be on him) once said: “Sympathy for all mankind is a moral obligation and a duty (Arbaeen)…that religion is no religion which does no inculcate sympathy, nor does that man deserve to be called a man who does not have sympathy in him (message of peace).”
Therefore, our community’s main motto is “Love For All and Hatred for None”
Inviting people to the path of Allah, the Holy Quran reminds us, must be done in the best manner possible.
“Call unto the way of thy Lord with wisdom and goodly exhortation and argue with them in a way that is best.” (16:126)
Having said that I believe the so-called Muslims who are presenting Islam as a radicalized religion, they are MISGUIDED and they are used by the super-Powers of the world for their own interests. That’s why I termed it as a “POLITICALLY radicalized Islam”.
Those Terrorist outfits belong to poor countries(YES or No)? then, From where are they getting enough resources? Is majority of the victims Muslims or Non-Muslims?
The countries which are biggest suppliers of the weapon are not Muslim (except Saudi Arabia which is an American ally).
Why don’t you raise your voice against your own country for exporting their weapons to the Muslim countries?
CogitoErgoSum says
Sorry, I made another typo. It should be about 1.6 billion Muslims in the world and not 6 billion. I don’t want to inflate their numbers.
StellaSaidSo says
‘THIS IS JUST SENSELESS’
Why is it ‘senseless’?
It is perfectly obvious that if your sect has as its goal a global caliphate, it expects ultimately to convert all non-believers.
What happens to those whom you fail to convince, once the caliphate is established? Do they have equal status?
Masood says
We just don’t have a “GOAL” of the global caliphate. In fact, we have it.
“…it expects ultimately to convert all non-believers…” THIS IS YOUR MIS-CONCEPTION.
There is an ESTABLISHED SYSTEM OF CALIPHATE in our community and we are a strong believer in equality amongst humanity and we’ll obviously follow the same principles if we get power. But, the focus of our caliphate system is not to gain any worldly power. Instead, our main focus is to establish peace and harmony in the world and to end every kind of war religious wars. It is IMPORTANT also for the fulfillment of the PROPHECY of Prophet Muhammad PBUH (about the second coming of Messiah) which I stated before also.
You can listen to our current Caliph Hadhrat Mirza Masroor Ahmed’s Address To European Parliament (or any other address like that), I will feel pleased to clarify your misconception.
StellaSaidSo says
@ Masood
I notice that you have not answered my question about what happens, under a caliphate, to those who remain unpersuaded by Islam, ie those with ‘diverse’ beliefs, who do not convert. Do they have equal status?
You say that your sect believes in ‘equality amongst humanity’. If that is the case, then why do women not have equal rights?
Your claims that you believe in equality and diversity simply don’t stand up.
As for ‘peace and harmony’ – they exist where genuine equality, liberty, and diversity exist. Under Islam there are none of these. Under Islam, what looks like peace and harmony is nothing more than submission, based on fear.
Ray Jarman says
Stella, Spinoza stated the antithesis to islam when he wrote, “The highest activity a human being can attain is learning for understanding, because to understand is to be free.” The cult prohibits the freedom of thinking for oneself. It dictates that one may only think in terms of how one can die for their sick version God.
Another great philosopher, René Decartes, wrote, ‘I honored our Theology and aspired as much as anyone to reach heaven, but having learned to regard it as a most highly assured fact that the road is not less open to the most ignorant than to the most learned, and that the revealed truths which conduct thither are quite above our intelligence, I should not have dared to submit them to the feebleness of my reasoning; and I thought that, in order to undertake to examine them and succeed in so doing, it was necessary to have some extraordinary assistance from above and to be more than a mere man.” I think it is too bad that nowhere in islamic writing is there to be found such words of humility and maybe our friends Ibrahim and Masood could learn a bit of humility if only open their minds and read something other than their repugnant book of hatred and evil.
Masood says
“…I notice that you have not answered my question about what happens, under a caliphate, to those who remain unpersuaded by Islam, ie those with ‘diverse’ beliefs, who do not convert…”
The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community is the only Islamic organization to endorse a separation of mosque and state. Over a century ago, Ahmad(as) taught his followers to protect the sanctity of both religion and government by becoming righteous souls as well as loyal citizens. He cautioned against irrational interpretations of Quranic pronouncements and misapplications of Islamic law. He continually voiced his concerns over protecting the rights of God’s creatures. Today, it continues to be an advocate for universal human rights and protections for religious and other minorities. It champions the empowerment and education of women.
Moreover, as I said before also, we believe in the spiritual system of Caliphate and we have nothing to do with worldly powers. As our system of Global Spiritual Caliphate is established since 110 years. We believe in equal rights for everyone irrespective of caste, creed, culture or religion.
“STATE MUST BE SECULAR, IT SHOULD NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION, STATE SHOULD PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF ITS CITIZENS IRRESPECTIVE OF THEIR RELIGION”
This is our basic argument with Muslim countries where we are a victim of persecution.
“…Do they have equal status?…”
YES, OF COURSE.
“…why do women not have equal rights?…”
You should ask this question to a woman, who is practicing Islam Ahmadiyya (If she feels the same or not). Surely, I will be judged as BIAS (being a man), if I’ll answer this question.
“…As for ‘peace and harmony’ – they exist where genuine equality, liberty, and diversity exist. Under Islam, there are none of these. Under Islam, what looks like peace and harmony is nothing more than submission, based on fear…”
For me, this is your opinion based on many misconceptions about Islamic teachings.
c matt says
That’s all well and good for Ahmadies, Massood, but which Islam is “real” Islam? Or more important, which Islam is followed by the largest number of Muslims? It sounds as though Ahmadies are quite the minority in Islam. From a practical standpoint, whether Ahmadies are non-violent is irrelevant if the majority of Muslims practice, support or at least do not object to violent jihad.
StellaSaidSo says
@ c. matt
As Islamic sects go, the Ahmadiyyai are the good guys. However, they are a tiny minority of the Muslim population (of which 85% are Sunni), accounting for approx.10-20 million of a total of 1.6 billion Muslims. The largest Ahmadi population is in Pakistan, with 2-5 million people. From a practical standpoint, the fact that they are non-violent is, as you say, irrelevant. Also, Ahmadiyya are not considered by the mainstream to be ‘real’ Muslims, and are widely persecuted – often viciously – as a result. (In the UK in 2016, an Ahmadi Muslim in Glasgow was murdered by a Sunni Muslim for the crime of being nice to a Christian customer.) It makes no sense for Ahmadis to support the global ambitions of Islam. Under a Sunni caliphate, the Ahmadi would not be allowed to exist.
Masood says
@StellaSaidSo
Yes, Ahmadies are less in population but its just a matter of time. Sunni Islam is more than 1400 years old, it has established its roots in societies, you cannot compare it with Ahmadiyya Community which is just 129 years old. Sunni Islam is losing its followers due to various reasons and Ahmadies are increasing day by day by the grace of God because of its Caliphate system (Do some research about that).
“…Under a Sunni caliphate, the Ahmadi would not be allowed to exist…”
Ahmadi Islam and rest of Islam are two different religions like Judaism and Christianity are two different religions. So this is a pointless debate. Every Muslim has to come under the caliphate of Ahmadiyya Muslims according to Prophet Muhammad’s PBUH prophecies.
I realize that you have too many misconceptions about Islam but you think you know everything and you don’t even seem to read the whole comment.
CogitoErgoSum says
Thanks, Masood. I’ll keep it short because talking to you annoys, Peter. If you say your religion’s essence is to serve humanity, that’s the part that escaped Muhammad’s comprehension. He defined humanity as Muslims alone and anyone else was an ape, a pig or a vile creatures ……. or a corpse. Your religion’s founder had to come along later and tweak the message. As I said before, he wanted to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.
In conclusion, (are you smiling Peter?) …….. the essence of your message is quite similar to the essence of Christ’s message but I find the details in your Ahmadi’s message more than a little misleading.
Thanks, but for me, Christ is still the Way, and the Truth and the Life.
Ray Jarman says
Great retort and I would like to have Masood answer a question that I have about religious tolerance which is if his sect was to rule a nation or people, would it permit other differing religions and writings of differing philosophies. I pretty sure my question is rhetorical.
Masood says
The question might be rhetorical for you, but not for me. I have answered this question twice before.
“STATE MUST BE SECULAR, IT SHOULD NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION, STATE SHOULD PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF ITS CITIZENS IRRESPECTIVE OF THEIR RELIGION.”
That’s what we believe and our actions would be same. But, our focus is not to rule the world but it is to change the hearts of people in a way that our Motto “LOVE FOR ALL, HATRED FOR NONE” succeeds. So, we are doing struggles for that purpose under the guidance of our spiritual leadership (Caliphate).
Since we are the victim of state persecution in various countries, so I think no one can understand this matter better than us.
Ray Jarman says
Masood, Thanks for the clarification and I am sure you believe it but you do remember that Gabriel told muhammad that perfidy in the cause of conquest in the name of allah is permissible as he lied to the Jews at Khaybar Oasis where he slaughtered them. As the state motto of the state of Missouri goes, “Show Me.”
StellaSaidSo says
@ Masood
‘…you don’t even seem to read the whole comment…’
This is rich, coming from someone who is yet to answer a question which has been asked twice, and who has avoided other questions on this thread.
‘…Sunni Islam is losing its followers…’
Sunni Islam can afford to lose a few. It has hundreds of millions of followers, whereas Ahmadiyya have 20 million max. How many centuries do you think it would take for the numbers to reverse?
‘Ahmadi Islam and the rest of Islam are two different religions, like Christianity and Judaism are two different religions…’
Judaism and Christianity are indeed different religions. Ahmadi Islam is not, however, a different religion from Islam. It is a sect of Islam.
There are different ‘denominations’ or ‘sects’ within Christianity, but this does not make them different religions.They use the same Bible, and worship in broadly the same manner, in buildings which are called churches. Similarly, Islamic sects all use the same Koran, worship in broadly the same manner, in buildings which are called mosques. Are you seriously claiming that Ahmadiyya Islam has nothing to do with Islam?
‘…Every Muslim has to come under the caliphate of Ahmadiyya Muslims according to prophet Mohammed…’
This may be how Ahmadiyya interpret the text. But it’s not how the Sunnis see it. And they have the numbers. Surely, Masood, you must be realistic – the chances of a global Ahmadiyya caliphate are slim indeed.
Frank Anderson says
Stella. . ., I was adopted by a Christian family over 60 years ago, and claimed by a Jewish mother-by-choice almost 25 years ago. From my observation of the two religions, including many “varieties” of Christianity, I see 2 differences:
1. Christianity worships a human, which Jews do not. As I understand Jews believe we are all the sons and daughters of God, and therefore brothers and sisters to each other and of Jesus. We have a choice to accept His Fatherhood or to reject it.
2. Christianity pounds guilt with the concept of sin. Judaism, to me, teaches that God does not want any of His Children, including ALL who call upon Him as Father, to live in any form of slavery. Guilt is the worst form of slavery because we know our weaknesses and failures as we beat upon ourselves.
I have never heard a prayer in a Jewish service that I could see as offensive to a Christian: Perhaps I am biased. I also have talked many times with Rabbi’s who consider Jesus the first *well-known* Reform Jewish Rabbi. At Jesus’ time there was an ongoing theological war between the priests who were Roman puppets depending on the sacrificial practice to live well, and the rabbis who opposed them. If you can take another look at the horrible description of Jews in the New Testament through the light of what Jews lived and taught when we believe Jesus lived, and look also at what is being taught now, your impressions could change. Jesus, if He lived, was a Jewish man whatever else He was. Please see for yourself.
Ray Jarman says
Frank, You seemed to have missed the sole purpose of Jesus Christ’s mission on the earth. His sole mission was to provide a way to return to our Heavenly Father through the Atonement. Only through Jesus can one return to our Heavenly Father. We are taught to love each other as we love ourselves and I believe that providing service to others is a necessity also. We have free agency to do as we like but we will have to answer for the misguided choices we choose.
Frank Anderson says
Ray I suggest Jews teach the same principle, “The fear [respect] of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom; The Love of the Lord surpasses all [human] understanding.” God’s power to forgive goes to things we cannot begin to understand. God knew our entire lives, including our rotten decisions, before He created us in our mothers’ wombs; and He brought us to life anyway. As one who has made many errors and bad decisions, I hope for that forgiveness promised on both sides of the Book, however it is granted. As a steward or trustee of the life I have been given, and not the owner of that life, I *try* to use it wisely. Protecting life is a duty. Avoidance of evil is also a duty of managing the property of Another. The God of Jews and Christians is a God of Life and Freedom. The god of muslims is a god of death and slavery. That’s my view after more than 53 years of searching, questioning and praying, which continues every day.
Ray Jarman says
Frank, Please don’t think that I have anything but respect for the Jewish people and the Old Testament. My church studies it in great detail and you made a good point earlier that Jesus Christ, his disciples and all of the first converts were Jews. We agree that God is Our Heavenly Father and that makes us all brothers and we are here on Earth to experience life and make decisions for ourselves in order to be prepared to return to Him. I am sure that he views us as one might see one’s child go astray. The child is still loved but there is justice as well as forgiveness.
Frank Anderson says
Ray, I believe, but am totally unable to prove, that God exists, is present and cares. For about 7 years I questioned everything about religion, never pulling any punches. Only 1 member of my adopted family understood and was not terrified of the direct questions I asked. There came a time where things were terrifically difficult. I believe, and am still unable to prove, that God decided I had had enough of the basic questions and gave me the answer to start more questions. I believe God was with me then through all the mess up to that time, and is still with me now, even when I might forget or try to run away. I believe I am witness to the God who accepts challenges and questions.
Months earlier I had been invited to a church where the preacher, a Th.D, was known to have “read many books in addition to the Bible”. Something made me go to that church the day he taught the Parable of the Two Sons in Matthew. I had never heard that parable before (and have heard it only 1 time since when I conducted my adopted mother’s funeral); and truly believed he made it up. He didn’t. I believe the parable is in Matthew Chapter 18. I then read the whole Bible cover to cover 3 times, talked with the preacher and was baptized. Still searching to this day.
Being a religious community of one human has its challenges. Peace be with you in the most expansive and comprehensive meaning of the word.
Masood says
“This is rich, coming from someone who is yet to answer a question which has been asked twice, and who has avoided other questions on this thread”.
Yes, I didn’t respond to your last question because I have answered it very clearly in the previous one. You repeat the same question again and again to expect a different answer, that’s why I said that you didn’t seem to read the whole text. Answering the same question, again and again, is obviously annoying.
But, I should follow my own standard of moral behavior and clarify it again, not just for you but for all other people who are following the conversation.
“…Sunni Islam can afford to lose a few. It has hundreds of millions of followers, whereas Ahmadiyya have 20 million max. How many centuries do you think it would take for the numbers to reverse?…”
How many companions did Jesus or Moses have in the beginning?
It took 300 years for Christianity to spread in the world and those 300 years were full of persecution of Christians in the hands of Roman Empire and various others. SO DEFINITELY IT WOULD TAKE TIME FOR US ALSO AND THAT’S HOW PEACEFUL NATIONS FLOURISH IN THE WORLD.
The fact is: Still we have the ability to do largest Muslim conventions in the world under our Caliphate (which we organize every year in different countries of the world excluding Pakistan where we are prohibited to do so) despite the fact that we are much less in numbers as compared to other Muslims (which is also just a matter of time).
“…Judaism and Christianity are indeed different religions. Ahmadi Islam is not, however, a different religion from Islam. It is a sect of Islam…”
This is your basic misconception. In fact, Christians and Muslims both believe in the second coming of Messiah, in fact, Jews also do believe in the Messiah’s arrival but they all are waiting for it.
BUT “The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community is the only Islamic organization to believe that the long-awaited Messiah has come in the person of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad(as) (1835-1908) of Qadian. Ahmad(as) claimed to be the metaphorical second coming of Jesus(as) of Nazareth and the divine guide, whose advent was foretold by the Prophet of Islam, Muhammad(sa). The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community believes that God sent Ahmad(as), like Jesus(as), to end religious wars, condemn bloodshed and reinstitute morality, justice, and peace. Ahmad’s(as) advent has brought about an unprecedented era of Islamic revival. He divested Islam of fanatical beliefs and practices by vigorously championing Islam’s true and essential teachings. He also recognized the noble teachings of the great religious founders and saints, including Zoroaster(as), Abraham(as), Moses(as), Jesus(as), Krishna(as), Buddha(as), Confucius(as), Lao Tzu and Guru Nanak, and explained how such teachings converged into the one true Islam.”
IN THIS WAY THERE IS A VERY BASIC DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AHMADI MUSLIMS AND ALL OTHER MUSLIM SECTS.
This is the reason why in Pakistan, Ahmadi’s are declared “KAFIR”(not Muslims) unanimously by all other sects.( See the second amendment in Pakistan’s 1973 constitution). It says “72 sects of Islam unanimously decides that Ahmadi’s are not Muslims”.
We are not even allowed to enter Masjid Al-Haram to perform Hajj.
This is According to the Prophecy of Prophet Muhammad PBUH: He told his companions that “My ummah will divide into 73 sects, all of them will be in the Fire except for one, and that is the Jamā’ah.” It was said, “And who are they, O Allah’s Messenger?” He responded, “That which I and my Companions are upon today.”
Further, You can ask any sect of Islam, Are Ahmadis Muslim or NOT? and their reply will surely be “NO”.
We believe that we are representing REAL ISLAM, So we are TRUE MUSLIM.
IN THIS WAY AHMADI ISLAM IS NOT (IN ANYWAY) AMONG OTHER SECTS OF ISLAM.
(NEITHER THEY NOR WE BELIEVE IT. I think you are the only one who believes it.)
“…This may be how Ahmadiyya interpret the text. But it’s not how the Sunnis see it. And they have the numbers. Surely, Masood, you must be realistic – the chances of a global Ahmadiyya caliphate are slim indeed…”
When Jesus came, Jews also had numbers but there was no unity among them. Similarly, Sunni Muslims are in numbers but there is no unity among them and to form a Caliphate, there should be a unity among followers.
FYI “The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community is the foremost Islamic organization with a central spiritual leader, known as the Khalifa of Islam. The Community believes that only spiritual successorship of Khilafat can uphold the true values of Islam and unite humanity. Five spiritual leaders have succeeded Ahmad(as) since his demise in 1908. It’s fifth and current spiritual head, His Holiness the Khalifa of Islam Mirza Masroor Ahmad, resides in the United Kingdom. Under the leadership of Islamic Khilafat, the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community has now built over 16,000 mosques, over 500 schools, and over 30 hospitals. It has translated the Holy Quran into over 70 languages. It propagates the true teachings of Islam and the message of peace and tolerance through a twenty-four-hour satellite television channel (MTA), the Internet (alislam.org) and print (Islam International Publications). The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community has been at the forefront of worldwide disaster relief through an independent charitable organization, Humanity First.”
These achievements are much more than the achievements of all other Muslim sects combined.
SO THE POINT TO ESTABLISH WAS “NUMBERS DOES NOT MATTER”.
“…There are different ‘denominations’ or ‘sects’ within Christianity, but this does not make them different religions.They use the same Bible, and worship in broadly the same manner, in buildings which are called churches. Similarly, Islamic sects all use the same Koran, worship in broadly the same manner, in buildings which are called mosques…”
The basic teachings of every religion are almost same whether it is Islam or Christianity or Judaism. The conflict always arises when God send his Messenger to revive the teachings which became inevident as the time elapse. As an Ahmadi Muslim, we believe in all the Messengers and the books revealed on them including Jesus, Moses, David, Abraham and so on and so forth.
“…Are you seriously claiming that Ahmadiyya Islam has nothing to do with Islam?…”
NO, NOT AT ALL. In fact, I said we are a TRUE believer in ISLAM. But, we have nothing to do with other sects of Islam, As they have nothing to do with us.
StellaSaidSo says
@ Frank Anderson
Interesting post, Frank. I agree that Judaism and Christianity are different. However, while a fascinating topic in itself, the nature of those differences (and any similarities between the two), is irrelevant to my debate with Masood, in which I agreed with his designation off Judaism and Christianity as separate religions, but disputed his claim that Ahmadiyya Islam is a separate religion from ‘the rest of Islam’. What I am interested in at this point is how Masood justifies this claim.
Frank Anderson says
No problem. Peace be with you!
StellaSaidSo says
@ RayJarman
‘…I would like to have Masood answer a question that I have about religious tolerance…’
Stand in line, Ray, I’m still waiting for an answer to that very same question. Funny isn’t it, how there are some questions that they all refuse to answer. Doesn’t matter what sect they are.
Masood says
As I have answered your question now. If you believe there is any question which is awaited to be answered by me, I would appreciate if you draw my attention towards that. But obviously, I feel annoyed if you ask me the same question again and again because I have some other work to do also.
Ray Jarman says
Masood, Thanks for the clarification and I am sure you believe it but you do remember that Gabriel told muhammad that perfidy in the cause of conquest in the name of allah is permissible as he lied to the Jews at Khaybar Oasis where he slaughtered them. As the state motto of the state of Missouri goes, “Show Me.”
StellaSaidSo says
@ RayJarman
Just saw your post upthread in which you reference Spinoza and Descartes, and I endorse everything you say.
Ray Jarman says
Thanks Stella, I love reading the words of the great men of the past. It seemed that they had more time to think and write their thoughts for our posterity.
gravenimage says
Masood wrote:
There is a bit difference between your concept of a caliphate and our implementation of it. Our goal of the Caliphate is to establish unity among the followers of Islam, and not bringing the non-followers forcefully under the flag.
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Masood does not say here that if Infidels can be tricked into voting in the savagery of Shari’ah that it can be imposed on everyone.
More:
Instead, we are taught to respect other opinions and deal them with proper arguments. Since free thinking and difference of opinion remains there so the diversity also remains there.
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“Proper arguments”–those based on the brutality of Shari’ah.
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Our struggle is 129 years old now, I suggest you do research on it and I guarantee you’ll not find any violence. We have sacrificed our own lives but never taken a single life ever.
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This is true–and orthodox Muslims murder them for it.
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A community is established its roots in 207 countries of the world now with millions of followers belonging to different races. So, now do tell me why you think I am hypocritically talking about diversity.
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Well, there are only 195 countries in the whole world–and that’s if you count the Holy See in Rome and the “Palestinian” Territories.
But let’s leave that aside–having invaded virtually every country in the world is not “diverity”, any more than is more orthodox Muslims having done the same thing.
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We believe in each and every verse of the Holy Quran. But, it should be taken in a proper context.
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This is where Ahmadis either pretend the verses of the Qur’an are not violent, or else claim they were a one time thing–which the Qur’an itself denies.
More to the point, of course, no mainstream Muslims believe this.
More:
Among the prophecies of Prophet Muhammad P.B.U.H regarding the second coming of Messiah, He said: “He will fight with the people for the cause of Islam, He will put an end to war and abolish Jizya”.
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What Masood is referring to here is the last days, where “Jesus”–really, “Isa”–only abolishes Jizya because he murders all Jews and Christians who refuse to convert to Islam.
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He will fight but there will be no war clearly means that here the fight is not physical but its intellectual. We believe that this verse is about fighting the disbelievers intellectually rather than physically.
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It’s pretty physical of you are one of the Infidels murdered by “Isa”…
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So, we believe in “Jihad of Pen” not in “Jihad of Sword”.
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In other words, Masood is happy to dish up a load of Taqiyya here.
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For your kind information, we Ahmadies are the most persecuted community in Pakistan more than Christians. We have never been given a right to practice our own religion nor given a right to cast a vote in elections. We have been mass murdered for what we believe. But, we stood firm and never give up our cause.
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Why do so many Muslims do this? Whenever Infidels dare bring up the fact that Muslims are slaughtering Infidels all over the world, Muslims indignantly assure us that Muslims are butchering each other, as well.
How does this make Islam any more palatable? If anything, Muslims murdering each other makes it even worse.
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Many of us migrated, including me to find some better place.
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“A better place”–that is, of course, the civilized world. Once here, though, Ahmadi Muslims, like their more orthodox brothers, work to turn our civilized lands into Muslim hellholes.
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We spoke against ISIS and Boko Haram also which is on record. Still we are fighting intellectually to spread the real Islam instead of that politically radicalised Islam.
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The “real Islam”–an Islam so hated by orthodox Muslims that Ahmadis have to flee to Dar-al-Harb.
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Now, I must ask you:
From where these militant groups getting their resources like weapons and funds?
Have you ever asked your own country that why are they selling weapons to them?
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Here we go–violent Jihad is–somehow–the fault of the “filthy Infidels”, rather than Muslims themselves.
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I said “NOT bringing the non-followers FORCEFULLY under the flag” and when you spread an idea intellectually, obviously you cannot convince everyone. Then how can you make this conclusion
“…the end goal of the Ahmadiyya is exactly the same as that of the mainstream sects: the conversion to Islam of all ‘non-followers…”
this is just a SENSELESS.
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No, it’s not. The goal of Ahmadi Muslims is still to impose brutal Shari’ah law on everyone.
More:
Your comment is highly exaggerated. From proper context, I didn’t mean that non-native Arabic can’t understand. I myself is a non-native Arabic, but I try to understand and I didn’t felt any difficulty in it. The only thing is to remove misconceptions from your mind first and try to understand clearly what the topic is all about. Then you can make arguments, like you did before and I like it.
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In other words, don’t believe your lyin’ eyes that the Qur’an is violent. That this is the obvious truth cannot be the case if you have the “right context”. Notice that Masood never mentions what that context might be…
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The essence of Islam is to serve Humanity.
Look what the Holy Quran says:
“You are the best people ever raised for the good of mankind because you have been raised to serve others; you enjoin what is good and forbid evil and believe in Allah.” (3:111)
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Qur’an 3:111 does not say that at all. Here is the Sura:
“They will not harm you except for [some] annoyance. And if they fight you, they will show you their backs; then they will not be aided.”
https://quran.com/3/111
What Masood meant is Qur’an 3:110:
“You are the best nation produced [as an example] for mankind. You enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and believe in Allah . If only the People of the Scripture had believed, it would have been better for them. Among them are believers, but most of them are defiantly disobedient.”
First, notice that there is no mention of serving mankind at all–instead, this verse just affirms Muslim supremacy.
As for “enjoining what is right and forbidding what is wrong”, this is the impostion of barbaric Shari’ah law–including the systematic oppression of Infidels.
And this verse is–as I noted–immediately followed by one telling Muslims to violently attack unbelievers. Very telling.
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“And do not forget to do good to one another.” (2:238)
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Nope–sorry. That Sura is about prayer.
Not sure *what* verse Masood is referring to here.
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“and we have sent thee not but as a blessing (mercy) for the entire universe (for all peoples)” (21:108)
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Again, no–this verse refers to Tawhid–Allah not taking partners.
He probably means Qur’an 21:107. Given that Islam says that unbelievers should be dragged to Islam in chains and fetters, the claim that being violently conquered by Muslims is a “mercy” is very much in the eye of the beholder…
Con’t
gravenimage says
Con’t
“Verily you have in the prophet of Allah an excellent model.” (33:22)
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That’s Qur’an 33:21. Of course, this means that the savage “Prophet” Muhammed–a warlord, pedophile, caravan-raider, slaver, rapist, and mass murderer is considered by Muslims to be the ideal man, and a model for all time. Masood does not say why we should consider that a good thing.
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The Holy Prophet PBUH once said: “One who is not grateful to mankind is not grateful to Allah.” (Tirmidhi)
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Is Masood here saying that we should be grateful to Jihadists?
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The Promised Messiah (peace be on him) once said: “Sympathy for all mankind is a moral obligation and a duty (Arbaeen)…that religion is no religion which does no inculcate sympathy, nor does that man deserve to be called a man who does not have sympathy in him (message of peace).”
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This is Ahmadi only. No orthodox Muslim has ever said this.
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Therefore, our community’s main motto is “Love For All and Hatred for None”
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Again, this is Ahmadi only. There is nothing like this in orthodox Islam.
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Inviting people to the path of Allah, the Holy Quran reminds us, must be done in the best manner possible.
“Call unto the way of thy Lord with wisdom and goodly exhortation and argue with them in a way that is best.” (16:126)
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This is Qur’an 16:125. Qur’an 16:126 is actually about Muslims punishing their enemies.
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Having said that I believe the so-called Muslims who are presenting Islam as a radicalized religion, they are MISGUIDED and they are used by the super-Powers of the world for their own interests. That’s why I termed it as a “POLITICALLY radicalized Islam”.
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First, the claim that most Muslims have Islam so very, very wrong. If Masood really believed this, why wouldn’t he take this up with his fellow Muslims, instead of slinging his Taqiyya here?
The we have “used by the super-Powers of the world for their own interests”–again, the claim that it is our own fault that the poor Muslims have to wage violent Jihad against us.
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Those Terrorist outfits belong to poor countries(YES or No)? then, From where are they getting enough resources? Is majority of the victims Muslims or Non-Muslims?
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What a canard–no, not all Jihadists are poor. Moreover, there are plenty of Muslim countries funding violent Jihad, like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.
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The countries which are biggest suppliers of the weapon are not Muslim (except Saudi Arabia which is an American ally).
Why don’t you raise your voice against your own country for exporting their weapons to the Muslim countries?
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More claptrap–the idea that it is the “filthy Infidels” who are responsible for violent Jihad.
Moreover, pretty much everyone here has said that we should *never* sell arms to Muslims, nor let them steal our weaponry. Note that Masood is pretending this is not the case.
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We just don’t have a “GOAL” of the global caliphate. In fact, we have it.
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The Ahmadi do claim to have a Caliphate–never mind that it has no power and is entirely theoretical.
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“…it expects ultimately to convert all non-believers…” THIS IS YOUR MIS-CONCEPTION.
There is an ESTABLISHED SYSTEM OF CALIPHATE in our community and we are a strong believer in equality amongst humanity and we’ll obviously follow the same principles if we get power.
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Take his word for it, you filthy Infidels…
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But, the focus of our caliphate system is not to gain any worldly power. Instead, our main focus is to establish peace and harmony in the world and to end every kind of war religious wars. It is IMPORTANT also for the fulfillment of the PROPHECY of Prophet Muhammad PBUH (about the second coming of Messiah) which I stated before also.
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I other words, there will not be an end to Islamic wars until the last days–when “Jesus” will slaughter all non-Muslims. How very “peaceful”…
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You can listen to our current Caliph Hadhrat Mirza Masroor Ahmed’s Address To European Parliament (or any other address like that), I will feel pleased to clarify your misconception.
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Here he is, damanding that Europe let in more ravening Muslims:
https://www.alislam.org/library/press-release/khalifa-of-islam-makes-historic-address-at-european-parliament/
Note that he also blames the Infidels for this “conflict” for not being tolerant enough. If only we stopped objecting to Muslims murdering us!
He also flogs the “plight” of the “Palestinian” people–in other words, the bad old Jews should stop defending against violent Jihad.
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@StellaSaidSo
Yes, Ahmadies are less in population but its just a matter of time. Sunni Islam is more than 1400 years old, it has established its roots in societies, you cannot compare it with Ahmadiyya Community which is just 129 years old. Sunni Islam is losing its followers due to various reasons and Ahmadies are increasing day by day by the grace of God because of its Caliphate system (Do some research about that).
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Even if this were true–very questionable at best–does this mean we should suffer another 1300 years of violent Jihad before the Ahmadi take over?
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“…Under a Sunni caliphate, the Ahmadi would not be allowed to exist…”
Ahmadi Islam and rest of Islam are two different religions like Judaism and Christianity are two different religions. So this is a pointless debate. Every Muslim has to come under the caliphate of Ahmadiyya Muslims according to Prophet Muhammad’s PBUH prophecies.
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Which, of course, only the Ahmadi believe…
There are only about 4 million Ahmadis in the world–tops–compared to well over a billion orthodox Sunni and Shia Muslims.
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I realize that you have too many misconceptions about Islam but you think you know everything and you don’t even seem to read the whole comment.
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Isn’t it actually mainstream Muslims who have “misconceptions” about Islam? Notice that Masood still isn’t taking this up with his own coreligionists…
gravenimage says
The dishonest Masood wrote:
There is nothing authentic given in this article regarding “Sweden welcoming Jihadist” while you people are shouting on the law which is equally implemented on everyone else except Europeans.
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Is Masood saying that the Muslims flooding into Europe are–somehow–Europeans? This is obvious tripe. Why would Europeans be posing as refugees?
And there have been numerous cases of Muslim migrants waging violent Jihad in Sweden. How can Masood think we don’t know that?
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Is this just because she is an “American” and you want to maintain the American Supremacy in the world.
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How is pointing this ludicrous story “maintaining American Supremacy” in the world? It is merely pointing out how ridicuous it is to depart a law-abiding student on a technicality while allowing in hordes of violent Muslims.
Clearly, Masood has a vested interest in the latter.
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I am also a student at Uppsala University, and I can tell you that there are other students also who face problems continuing their studies due to these laws but they never accuse the state falsely
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What rot. No one is “accus[ing] the state falsely”–they are just saying that this is a absurd state of affairs.
Does Masood have a problem with his Jihadist coreligionists flooding into Sweden to rape and murder the native populace and impose brutal Shari’ah law? Not that he says…
CRUSADER says
Well done, Graven Image, you took Masood apart.
You had some time on your hands, though it all must have flowed smoothly and seemingly seamlessly.
Masood could be a Muslim DECEPTICON…. wouldn’t be the first, there are many of them.
Masood says
Yes, thanks @gravenimage for deceiving and manipulating everything I said. That’s just because I am Muslim and you are against it, so you have a right to do every dishonest action with me. This is your level of hypocrisy.
CRUSADER says
So here’s a theory…
During WW2 Sweden cooperated with the Nazis and thus avoided invasion.
Is Sweden pacifist towards islamists in the hope that they will reciprocate in kind?
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/sverige-16
Frank Anderson says
Applying Santayana’s “Those who cannot remember. . .” the Swedes are following in the footsteps of the half of German Jews who just did not believe Hitler’s message. Perhaps others will and do what is needed for themselves and the future.
gravenimage says
Sweden saved virtually the entire population of Danish Jews during WWII. They could not have done that if they had been invaded by the Nazis.
Frank Anderson says
GI, please let me add that the only Danish Jews who died, fell from age or infirmity. Not one Danish Jew died in German hands. The King of Denmark put on a Star of David telling the Germans, “There are only Danes here!” In a matter of days papers and transportation were arranged for all who could to escape.
gravenimage says
Yes–this is a very inspirational story.
Frank Anderson says
GI, from many years of exposure to the account, I have every reason to believe it is true. For once, someone did what was right. Praise God.
CRUSADER says
Resistance Museum in Copenhagen substantiates the Danish fight against the Nazis.
Quite a lot of heroics went on, considering the tremendous pressure they were under.
c matt says
The difference being that the agreement was for the Nazis to not invade. Here, the muslims are invading, so not much of an upside, eh?
Rob says
Why is she over there anyway? Just a poster-child for Jihad-ignorant millennials.
DP111 says
Anna Sjöstrand, a Swedish municipal coordinator against violent extremism, says, “It is much cheaper to reintegrate a person into society than to abandon them”…
Sweden is over run by lefty female. It must be a Muslim mans paradise.
Peter says
Anna Sjöstrand, a Swedish municipal coordinator against violent extremism, says, “It is much cheaper to reintegrate a person into society than to abandon them”….
Well, any idiot knows it is cheaper still not to allow them reentry.
CRUSADER says
EXACTLY…except for the cheaper labor they offer, which they won’t do much of anyway….
It is just take take take take on the one side…
While on the other side it is talk talk talk talk….
Perfect symbiosis.
mortimer says
Quote: “It is much cheaper to reintegrate a person into society than to abandon them” …! Huh?
How about it is much cheaper to RE-PATRIATE A JIHADIST than to support him indefinitely and then pay for his trial and jail sentence.
Frank Anderson says
*We continue to agree . . .!” Don’t forget the expense of repairing the damage done while earning the jail sentence. How can a dead person be “repaired” at any price?
David says
Perhaps she is getting off easy.
Ray Jarman says
And one wonders why the Norwegians are preparing to prevent a deluge of Swedish refugees when the pending civil war breaks out in Sweden. War is definitely on the brink and I will bet my home that other nations like Germany, the Benelux nations, France and Italy will follow suit.
gravenimage says
Norway has its own problems with violent, rapist Muslims.
brane pilot says
We live in a world that could not have been make up as a joke 25 years ago.
Anyone who did propose such a fictional world would have been regarded as a crank, or insane.
Utterly, clinically insane.
When insanity by the state is regarded as normal, then what is the definition of insane?
gravenimage says
Yes–this suicidal insanity has taken hold just in the past few years.
Old Geeza says
Anna Sjostrand obviously does not understand islamic ideology: islam does not intergrate.
John Magee says
If the Swedes had any common sense they would deport another American named Barbara Spectre.
StellaSaidSo says
+1
Richie says
all she needs to do is claim to be a Muslim. They wont deport her then.
Indiana Tom says
Sweden wants to deport American student while giving jihadis housing and benefits,
For Sweden, this makes perfect sense.
Billy Chickens says
I’m sick of Europe and its cowardly whinging actions against their own native lands and religion. I’m sick of Australia saying they can do nothing and it isn’t their fault. I’m sick of Americans who want to let Islam into our country. I’m sick of Canada and its capitulation to Islam.
When Islam rules I don’t want to hear one whimper of complaint from ANYONE because it’s a situation of “speak now or forever hold your peace”. Literally, better do something SOON, or you will be forced to like wearing a burqa, like FGM, pray 5 times a day toward Mecca to Filthy Allah, learn the language of your new caliphate, kill all dogs (no more Westminster Dog Show), stone women, have sex with young boys, destroy all beauty and live in s***hole Europistan, Islamic Australia, Islamic Canada and Islamic America.
Where is Pope Urban II when we need him?
gravenimage says
Sweden to deport American student while giving jihadis housing and benefits
…………………..
Deported for letting her bank balance go below $10,000–for a day.
This is insane–especially given Muslims flooding in and being given housing and benefits while plotting violent Jihad.
Ms. Andersson is clearly a benefit to Sweden–studying hard, conscientious, and solvent. Can’t have that…
I have mentioned before how strict the rules were for my husband when he was an exchange student at Oxford and when he stayed on for six months afterwards. He was heavily vetted through his American university and given a thorough criminal background check, which had to be clear of even misdemeanors.
He had to check in with the police in person weekly, had to clear any move with the police, could not leave studies or a job without first securing another one and having it approved by authorities, and–yes–maintaining a very high minimum bank balance. Violating any one of these rules would have gotten him deported, as would even so much as a misdemeanor.
Meanwhile, of course, Muslims are assaulting truck drivers in Calais to gain access to Britain without repercussions.
Suicidal insanity from all over Europe.
LeftisruiningCanada says
The level of scrutiny applied sounds bizarre, GI, like he was already a criminal. Shameful really, given that he was, i assume, an American.
gravenimage says
Yes, he’s an American, LeftisruiningCanada. And this was back in the 1980s. I assume this was the case with all exchange students–and maybe still is. The Muslim invasion had already begun in Britain–but was still largely below the radar for most people.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Had no idea the UK so abused guest from the USA. Makes little sense to me.
Berengaria says
It appears that Sweden has a very aggressive “AFFIRMATIVE ACTION” Program for Muslims, who are now Favored over the Swedes or anyone, who happens to be White.
If Sweden’s AA SCAM is similar to the US Affirmative Action, Sweden will have a Dumbed-Down Populace & Country!
AA gave America an Obama, so Sweden may be in line for a Muhammad, on the Swedish Throne.
gravenimage says
“Swedes’ Homes May Be Confiscated to Accommodate Asylum Seekers”
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6550/sweden-islam-multiculturalism
Arthur says
Frankly, I don’t understand the rationale behind a minimum bank balance. Perhaps it would make sense to have a “deportation deposit,” of the amount necessary to ship someone back to their home country. Wouldn’t need to be $10,000, though. A deportation deposit paid to the University and returned upon graduation would work. But the idea that you have to keep $10,000 in a bank account and never touch it does not say anything about your standard of living.
On the other hand, having $10,000 that you can afford to use poorly (i.e. put in a zero-interest bearing account for several years), would identify a person as “wealthy.” So perhaps this is just Sweden’s way of making sure education is limited to the wealthy elite. Is that a socialistic ideal? So strange the way these Europeans think.
gravenimage says
It is so they don’t wind up dependent on the state. That seems to be fine for invading Jihadists, though…
LeftisruiningCanada says
Funny how ‘nice caring’ policies like a welfare system breed so much mistreatment and authoritarianism, isn’t it.
infidel says
Exposing the HYPOCRISY of the Ahmedia called Masood: In India. we have many Ahmedias who are thriving and doing very well because Hindus never persecute them the way they are persecuted in other Muslim countries. Yet these ungrateful people will not speak one word of gratitude for the Hindus and get together with the virulent Sunnis and Shias to oppose Hindus and Hindu leaders… They are all the same in the end!!
StellaSaidSo says
‘They are all the same in the end’
Indeed they are, infidel. Currently, I am still waiting for Masood to answer my questions about equality and diversity, which he claims are championed by the Ahmadiyya. There are some questions which they all refuse to confront. And of course they will support another Muslim against a kafir, even if yesterday that Muslim was waving a knife in their face.
Masood says
Islam requires Muslims to not only obey their government but actively love their country – as Prophet Muhammad instructed, “Love of one’s country is a part of faith” (Sakhavi; Safinat al-Bihar, vol. 8, pg. 525; Mizan al-Hikmah, Hadith # 21928).
Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad, 5th Khalifa of the Promised Messiah said:
“As citizens of any country, we Ahmadi Muslims will always show absolute love and loyalty to the State. Every Ahmadi Muslim has a desire for his chosen country to excel and should always endeavor towards this objective. Whenever a country requires its citizens to make sacrifices the Ahmadiyya Muslim Jamaat will always be ready to bear such sacrifices for the sake of the nation.”
Accordingly, the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community often conducts nationwide leaflet campaigns to spread the message of peace. Last year, we conducted the largest nationwide blood drive in America’s history, collecting more than 11,000 blood bags in commemoration of the lives lost on 9/11. We are at the forefront of disaster relief in America and worldwide through an independent charitable organization, Humanity First (www.humanityfirst.org).
Puerto Rico relief Efforts: http://usa.humanityfirst.org/index.php?option=com_puertorico
We are taught to love our country, our nation and to serve humanity. If you have seen any Ahmadi Muslim practicing contrary to the teachings of Islam I can apologize on his/her behalf.
We are truly grateful to our country and our people. As it is a famous saying that “Action speaks louder than words”. I have shared some links above. You can visit them to know more about that.
gravenimage says
True, Infidel.
Guy Forester says
She should leave before she becomes a target of one of the beloved jihadis. Obviously these so called holy warriors are valued more than a self-supporting person that would not harm a flea. At one time I considered a long vacation in Scandinavia after working with some Danes, Swedes, and Norwegians. Even worked with some Finns. Now, you could not pay me to go there.
If I do any long distance travels, it will be to someplace that seriously resists jihad.
IanB says
Finland is a safe bet. Beautiful country, lovely people (mostly). No one could pay me enough to go to Sweden.
IanB says
I recommend Roland Huntford’s “The New Totalitarians” for an understanding of the Swedish political mentality. It’s expensive elsewhere but available as a free download from Google Books.
LeftisruiningCanada says
and from archive.org
Badger says
Mention is made of a ‘municipal coordinator against violent extremism’
Can you get a degree in that? The left loves jargon. The right hates it. Because the left have much to hide whereas the benefits of the right are self-evident.