“Jihad of Jesus,” eh? It’s always the Christians who host these outreach events to Muslims. Never do we see a mosque holding a “Eucharist of Muhammad” or some such event.
Mohammed Ali Amla, founder of Christian Encounter, says: “We want this to be an event that people can come to and learn about communities working together.”
Great. So there will be an honest discussion of obstacles to working together, won’t there? And a forthright mutual exchange about how those obstacles can be surmounted? Somehow I doubt it. Generally these events simply ignore such unpleasantness, and prey on the ignorance of the general public to preclude unwelcome questions. It is extraordinarily unlikely that there will be any discussion of these Qur’an verses:
Jesus is not the Son of God and belief in the Trinity is wrong: “O People of the Book! Do not exaggerate in your religion or say anything about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and his word which He conveyed to Mary, and a spirit from him. So believe in Allah and his messengers, and do not say “Three” –- Cease! It is better for you. Allah is only one Allah. Far be it from his transcendent majesty that he should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as defender.” — Qur’an 4:171
And: “It is not befitting to Allah that he should beget a son. Glory be to him! When he determines a matter, he only says to it, ‘Be,’ and it is.” — Qur’an 19:35
Jesus was not crucified: “And because of their saying: We killed the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah’s messenger, they did not kill him or crucify him, but it seemed to them as if they had. Those who disagree concerning it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except pursuit of a conjecture; they did not kill him for certain.” — Qur’an 4:157
Those who believe in the divinity of Christ are unbelievers: “They have certainly disbelieved who say that Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary.” — Qur’an 5:17
Christians have forgotten part of the divine revelations they received: “From those, too, who call themselves Christians, we took a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between one another, until the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what they have done.” — Qur’an 5:14
Those who believe that Jesus is God’s Son are accursed: “The Jews call Ezra a son of Allah, and the Christians call the Messiah the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; they simply imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!” — Qur’an 9:30
Christians who do not accepted Muhammad and the Qur’an are the most vile of created beings: “Nor did those who were given the Scripture become divided until after there had come to them clear evidence. And they were not commanded anything except to worship Allah, be sincere to him in religion, inclining to truth, and to establish prayer and to give zakah. And that is the correct religion. Indeed, they who disbelieved among the People of the Book and the polytheists will be in the fire of Hell, abiding eternally therein. Those are the most vile of created beings.” — Qur’an 98:6
Muslims must fight against and subjugate Christians: “Fight those who do not believe in Allah or the last day, and do not forbid what has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger, and do not acknowledge the religion of truth, even if they are of the People of the Book, until they pay the jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” — Qur’an 9:29
“Blackburn Cathedral plans ‘Jihad of Jesus’ seminar after BBC doc,” Lancashire Telegraph, February 19, 2018:
A CATHEDRAL has announced that it will hold an event in the wake of a controversial documentary.
A seminar discussing the challenges presented by integrating the Christian and Muslim faiths in Lancashire will take place at Blackburn Cathedral on March 7.
Speaking of the documentary at the time, senior Anglican clergy said that the BBC Panorama programme ‘White Fright’ did not paint an accurate picture of Blackburn.
Saying it ‘failed to tell the whole story’ the cathedral will now play host to a seminar that will question the links between Muslim and Christian faiths.
Mohammed Ali Amla, founder of Christian Encounter and someone involved in breaking down segregation barriers has spoken about what the seminar, named ‘The Jihad of Jesus’ wishes to achieve.
He said: “We want this to be an event that people can come to and learn about communities working together.
“We have worked hard to create a panel of people who can discuss their thoughts and own experiences with the audience, stimulating frank discussion and rich, important conversation.”
A key member of the panel, Dave Andrews, is author of the book ‘The Jihad of Jesus: The Sacred non-violent Struggle For Justice.’
“The people who will be joining us to discuss relations between Muslims and Christians on the night all recognise the challenges and differences that we face” said Mr Ali.
The Bishop of Burnley, Philip North and Imam Saleen Seedat will also be there on the night….
Gjallarhornet says
When reading this, if you are Christian you have no choice but to rebel and form your own sect. You will have to clean the temple and drive the pharisees out. If you are an atheist you can draw no other conclusion, upon reading of this ‘Christ in jihad’-seminar, that the opinion you always hel were, is and will be right: the church is mad.
If you, like many of us, are just a ‘concerned citizen’, you will pull your hair and be driven into despair from all this stupidity, The church has gone mad.
gravenimage says
Not all Christians are like this–in fact, this is not even Christian.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Indeed it is not.
There are splits growing within the Anglican communion that are widening all the time, and not only on this issue. Dividing is rarely what Christians want, which is why many are working to try and avoid it.
But it will come. The Left will not stop pushing ahead with their ‘progressive’ ideas, as in politics in general.
The Church isn’t mad. Some within it are however.
John Stefan Obeda says
As we know, a faithful Christian will try hard not to deny the truth. He will uphold the truth and live according to it and with God’s help, if necessary, he will pay the price of doing so in this world which does not want to hear and to see a life lived according to the Truth (Jesus). Jesus is our example.
Gjallarhornet says
I agree, it most definitely is not. From a Christian perspective this is absurd and a theological suicide. But also, from an atheist perspective this is very scary: what the hell (!) is happening to our churches?
gravenimage says
Yes–this is crazy for any Infidels, and Christians most of all.
Lydia Church says
It’s the Great Apostasy of the church. Prophesied in the Bible for the end times (now).
The churches in general have also capitulated to the elite’s global agenda.
(This does not refer to all Christians of course, but the general zeitgeist over the churches.)
Through ‘change agents,’ they are working for the evil ‘one world religion.’
They have certain buzz words.
‘Conversation,’ ‘communities,’ ‘cooperating,’ ‘common ground’ ‘common good,’ ‘intentional,’ ‘authentic,’ ‘transformational,’ are some of them. Basically, all is meant to be sacrificed at the altar of compromise with what is evil and wrong, for ‘the good of all.’ An oxy-moronic concept of course, but nonetheless, that is their goal.
Lydia Church says
And, Christianity has nothing in common with islam, last of all jihad.
Jayell says
Yes, well I was baptised into the C of E, but I don’t intend to associate myself with them anymore. They’re just Her Majesty’s Department of God and they’re simply following the political crowd, as they’ve always done. I haven’t seen ‘White Fright’ but judging from the Cathedral’s defensive reaction I would guess that the BBC hit the nail on the head as far as Blackburn is concerned. Those northern industrial towns are all in the same position. The trouble is that once an area has become contaminated any indigenous person who hangs around too long is trapped as property prices collapse and life can become unpleasant like living in a hostile foreign country.
Gjallarhornet says
There has always been a pragmatic element to the Church of England, I suppose. The port wine style is a long way from the inquisition.
But this islam-embrace isn’t that, this is something *new* and very radical, and as such foreign in spirit to the true Church of England.
Jayell says
‘Pragmatic’? Like, throw away the handbook and make it up as you go along, as it suits you?
gravenimage says
Not all Anglicans are like this.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Agreed. There are those that still stand for Christian positions on the issues of our time, islam being one of them. The divide is there no doubt, and it will widen, but Christ always has His remnant.
Charles T Lawson says
And not all muslims are moderate
John Stefan Obeda says
It is not wrong to go church-shopping when necessary. God commands us to keep the Sabbath day holy which means He wants us to worship with our fellow redeemed. I’m a conservative Lutheran and, if a town would have an utterly one and only liberal Lutheran pastor – there are such things – then I may find a conservative Anglican priest in town. But I should make an effort to find a church which preaches the Law and the saving Gospel message and sticks to the Bible which would include 2 Corinthians 6:5 “Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness. Or what fellowship has light with darkness?” .
Gjallarhornet says
Yes. And what I want is to pose a question to all, something I want people to think about.
First. On all the islam-critical sites I’ve seen once the subject of Christianity comes up, the discussion usually derails, with islam-critical atheists who, wanting islam gone, believes Christianity is just another ill, something standing in the way of progress. Many Christians, on the other hand, fight for the return of a Christian US/Europe, and as such, do not take kindly to what for them is anti-christian visions. This as a general observation of counter-jihadi pages, although Jihad Watch commenters may lean a bit more to the christian side of things.
So, the question: Does it ever occur to both the Christian and the atheist that they are fighting on the same side?
If islam gains ground, the future will be the very anti-thesis of the scientific future the atheist wants. He (the atheist) need all the friends he can get to stop islams march ahead.. The Christians are among the best friends he can get. Likevise, for the Christian: islam is the anti-tesis of Christendom. Anybody who helps you stop it is doing the lord’s work, regardless if he believes or not, is he not?
It is time to stop bickering about this issue. The actual extent of how we divide between religion and atheism is for later, when islam is kicked out. And then we’ll do it the opposite of the muslim way: we’ll figure out a modus vivendi *without* resorting to violence and killings, unlike how islam does for every little matter.
This just because I believe atheist-christian bickering is pointless where we are now. It’s draining out strength, making it impossible to fain common ground, a platform from where we can fight. Often things end with a sideline discussion between a Christian and an atheist. There is not much time for this any longer.
I’m writing an article on the subject, here, in my native language, a call for unity and common cause between the atheist and the Christian. We’ll see if it ever gets published. 🙂
Gjallarhornet says
In other words, and briefly:
Hanibal is at the gates!
Do we do something, or do we continue with your silly little in-fighting discussions from more peaceful eras long gone now?
Gjallarhornet says
And: the muslims make alliances with people they hate all the time: they’ve hooked up with the left, many churches, the pope, many LGBT-groups, Louis Farrakhan and you name it. All of these are people the devout muslim wants dead and gone.When the time comes, the muslim will put all these groups to the axe.
But people like the muslim brotherhood are smart, they hide their goal and make alliances along the way, building strength.
Why can’t we join up then with people we just have to have some small disagreements with? We are not doing it now, that’s for sure
LeftisruiningCanada says
” Does it ever occur to both the Christian and the atheist that they are fighting on the same side?”
Absolutely.
So far as this Christian is concerned, a bit of dialogue between the two groups is no problem and if done gently might help. I understand the atheists who want to put Christianity and islam in the same category (IE. stoopid superstitions), but that line of thinking doesn’t help any of us, and may well have contributed to the open borders welcome that islam has been given.
I appreciate your point about not getting sidetracked off into debates, but i don’t personally see it as being a distraction. It doesn’t cost us anything in terms of opposing islam. It’s not either/or imho.
The friendship between atheist or agnostic and christian does exist on here, and i for one greatly value it with those i have discussed things with.
Thanks for raising the issue.
Gjallarhornet says
Your comment is very good and greatly appreciated. I agree that Jihad Watch is not the worst place for the sort of bickering I’m referring to, but in general i believe the whole debate belong in the thirties. Every time I see it I’m amazed by the atheists elevation of ‘science’ and how they can – often – not see that there is an enemy at the door now that has made the whole discussion, for now obsolete. Likewise, the Christian penchant of pointing out end signs is not likely to win anyone over for the fight than the already convinced. What we need to do is to build alliances, between ourselves and with people with whom we have some differences. We must *build*.
Let’s build.
“The good man is the builder” – TS Eliot (a conservative and a Christian, by the way)
gravenimage says
Gjallarhornet, I absolutely agree–Christians and Atheists should ally against the threat of Islam. And they should ally with Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, and everyone else threatened by Islam.
This is what Robert Spencer does.
Gjallarhornet says
Yes it is. Oh, and by the way Gravenimage, thank your for your comment under my comment on the article about 150 schools in Britain with compulsory hijab, where some confused souls wrote silly things. I do believe you set the record straight with your comment. I had decided not to answer, but since you put your foot in, I felt could do no less.
J D S says
What can be said about this article ……..It’s in the U K and ….well you know already…Coming to your neighborhood Very soon.
JawsV says
What insanity is happening in Britain. A mass psychosis.
Phil Copson says
At least the new leader of Nigel Farage’s party “UKIP” – Gerard Batten – is prepared to tell the truth about islam.
The previous leader – (Henry Bolton – now voted out) – despite his previous military/security background was too eager to correct the slur that UKIP is “a racist party” and so emphasised that UKIP didn’t believe “in persecuting” people…..as the old saying goes: “Chance would be a fine thing!”
If Gerard Batten can get the subject on the table and make at least some people aware that islam is opposed to and inimical to Western societies, it may do some good.
Benedict says
Hope they will preach from Ephesians 6:12.
John Stefan Obeda says
Ephesians 6:12: “For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.”
and verse 13 “Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm.” etc. We are fighting against satan and his subjects and their evil doctrine and practices. We must fight using the truth, the word of God. God, help us.
Diane Harvey says
“We want this to be an event that people can come to and learn about communities working together”
Good night, are they that naive? 1400 years of Muslim behavior towards the non-Muslim and they have learned utterly nothing.
What they will learn is that the Muslims will not give an inch. “The stupidity is strong in this one”
gravenimage says
UK: Blackburn Cathedral to hold “Jihad of Jesus” seminar
…………………….
Wanting to associate Jesus *with Jihadists* could not be more sickening.
I know this is intended to whitewash Islam, but it just winds up being the most appalling calumny against Christ.
JawsV says
Yes. Disgusting. Don’t put “Jesus” and “Jihad” in the same sentence. Horrible.
Indiana Tom says
“Blackburn Cathedral plans ‘Jihad of Jesus’ seminar
So the Muslim Jesus is now an ISIS Jihadi?
Saying it ‘failed to tell the whole story’ the cathedral will now play host to a seminar that will question the links between Muslim and Christian faiths.
None that I know of.
Please read Wholly Different by Nonie Darwish.https://www.amazon.com/Wholly-Different-Biblical-Values-Islamic/dp/1621575780
Indiana Tom says
In Wholly Different, Darwish sets non-Muslims straight about tenets of Islam that are incompatible with free society.She lays out the “seventh-century values” of Islam that religious extremists are so intent on protecting through global warfare—values that set Islam apart from the other Abrahamic religions.
CRUSADER says
Nonie Darwish ~
important concise speech about Islam ideology
at The Conservative Forum 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ6SbdpwZxw
With spontaneity and persistence, Nonie Darwish — who lived the first thirty years of her life under the forced yoke of a police state — thanked America for freeing her from the Islamic ideology that enslaves women dictated by the Qur’an. Explaining the differences between Islam and America to Forum attendees, Nonie Darwish stated that Judeo-Christian culture is completely different as regards the relationship between men and women. Under sharia law, women have very few rights. One example: in a sharia court of law if there are two witnesses and one is a man and one is a woman, the man will always prevail. Sharia law is the divine law of Islam. Sharia supersedes all others — forbidding freedom of speech, religion, and gender equality.
JawsV says
I read “Wholly Different” last year. An amazing book. Everyone should read it. She also says, Indiana Tom, that Islam is not Abrahamic. Islam has nothing to do with Abraham. The two Abrahamic faiths are Judaism and Christianity. Islam’s a fraud.
CRUSADER says
Here’s this clown:
…what Wafa Sultan, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Nonie Darwish, Brigitte Gabriel Irshad Manji
have in common:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_praQrFJhg
Jerusalem Post had this write up:
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Snap-Judgment-Nonie-Darwish-isnt-afraid
Nonie Darwish didn’t speak at Brown University last week. She should have, after having been invited a few weeks earlier by the Hillel chapter of Brown to give a talk at the Ivy League school on November 30. But after coming under pressure from members of the school’s administration and its Muslim student organization, Brown-Hillel rescinded the invitation. Then, in the latest twist to the story, Hillel again backtracked and re-invited Darwish for a later date. It’s too bad that Brown students haven’t yet had the opportunity to hear Darwish. I say this as someone who both knows Nonie personally and arranged a speaking engagement for her in Jerusalem last summer on behalf of The Israel Project.
Nonie has an incredible story to tell, and only when one knows that story does it become clear that the episode at Brown says something very disturbing about the state of things at one of America’s finest universities, and presumably many other campuses as well.
Nonie was born in Egypt and raised in the 1950s in the Gaza Strip, where her father, Col. Mustafa Hafez, was an army intelligence officer assigned to oversee the fedayeen – the Palestinian terror cells that struck frequently at Israeli civilians across the border. In 1955 Hafez was killed by an Israeli bomb, and Nonie and her family returned to Egypt, where she was taught to hate the Israelis who had killed her revered shahid (martyr) father.
As Nonie grew up though, witnessing religious prejudice against Coptic and Jewish Egyptian friends, and the oppressive attitudes toward women in her society (including her widowed mother), she began to question some of the values on which she was being raised.
AFTER MOVING to the US as a young woman, she came to appreciate and love the freedom and tolerance of her new country. Later on, after a family member was treated in a Jerusalem hospital in the 1990s, she visited Israel and was impressed by the warmth and respect she and her family were accorded by Israeli physicians and nurses.
After the 9/11 attacks, Nonie began to publicly condemn the radical Muslim hatred fueling terrorist violence directed at both the US and Israel, and authored the recently published book “Now They Call Me Infidel: Why I Renounced Jihad for America, Israel, and the War on Terror”.
She joined the growing ranks of Muslim-born individuals – many of them not coincidentally women, including Irshad Manji, Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Wafa Sultan – speaking out against Islamic extremism at significant personal risk. Given her family background, Nonie’s personal journey is in particular a real profile in courage.
THE LATTER quality, alas, seems to have been conspicuously missing at Brown. When Darwish was initially invited to the Rhode Island school, the university’s Muslim chaplain, Rumee Ahmed, claimed that she had made anti-Islam comments, and her presence on campus would be a provocation to his congregation. His stance was supported by Brown Head Chaplain Rev. Janet Cooper Nelson, who ironically only last month lent her support to a “Palestinian Solidarity Week” event on campus that featured a bevy of anti-Israel speakers.
Hillel student president Yael Richardson said Cooper Nelson told the Hillel board “to think about the implications of what this would do with our religious communities on campus. She encouraged us to think carefully about whether we wanted to fund the event.” The Hillel board reacted by canceling out on Darwish. “Did the Muslim Students Association and the administration exert some influence? Yes,” said Brown-Hillel director Serena Eisenberg. “Did our board cave? No. They made a thoughtful decision about constructive dialogue and about moving forward.”
No they didn’t. Any proper review of Nonie’s work and statements would have clearly shown that while she is rightly critical of Muslim extremism, she is very careful not to attack the core of Islam itself. Never have I heard such words from her; indeed, in contrast, I have several times heard her refer to “the beautiful religion of Islam which has been perverted by those who use it to justify terror.”
Having also gotten to know members of Nonie’s family, I can attest that this is not PC lip-service, as she clearly took pains to raise her own children in a spirit of tolerance and open-mindedness to all faiths. Presumably, the university and Brown-Hillel board discovered just that when they got beyond their knee-jerk reaction and later re-invited Darwish.
Still, it’s troubling to read the original statement of Brown-Hillel Board of Trustees president Fred Horowitz: “Although I would enjoy hearing Darwish speak at Brown, or anywhere, we must remember that Brown-Hillel is not anywhere. Our student leadership has built a unique relationship with the Brown Muslim community. Some of us may perceive it as naive, but that urge to break the mold of Jewish-Muslim dialogue is what makes Brown-Hillel unique.”
Naive? I’d call it delusional and disheartening. What kind of “relationship” is it when criticism can only go one way, when true debate is stifled, when university officials see no hypocrisy in blessing a Palestinian Solidarity Week designed to condemn the Jewish state while acting to silence a Nonie Darwish?
What kind of “dialogue” is it when Hillel cannot stand up for someone who is standing up for Israel at the risk of their own well-being? I’m glad Nonie will finally get her day at Brown, but that is not enough. What I’d like to see next is for the national leadership of Hillel to invite her to a speaking tour at Hillel chapters on campuses across the US. Yes, it’s likely that, as happened at Brown, objections will be raised at some of them, and Hillel members will have to contend with opposition from both administrators and fellow students. In that case, I can at least assure them of one thing:
What Nonie has to say is worth listening to – and worth fighting for.
——
Well, no wonder they call the school “BROWN” !
(“What Brown can’t do for you…”)
gravenimage says
Indiana Tom wrote:
“Blackburn Cathedral plans ‘Jihad of Jesus’ seminar
So the Muslim Jesus is now an ISIS Jihadi?
………………….
This sort of thing has been done before. In “Zealot”, Reza Aslan essenitially presents Jesus as a “Palestinian” Jihadist. *Ugh*.
CRUSADER says
If Reza Aslan could make a similar “Zealot” treatise about Mudmammam as he did on Jesus, with expansive footnotes, taking a part the sacred and inserting skepticism into the historical references, causing much doubt, then that’d be a real balance of an act he has committed. But he won’t do so. He is either afraid, or he just believes Jesus was mostly fake and Islam is truth.
gravenimage says
CRUSADER, Reza Aslan is an Iranian agent, and a notorious apologist for Islam.
LeftisruiningCanada says
The idea that Jesus Christ ‘struggled’ for anything, in any way, is perverted, utterly islamocentric, and shouts loudly that those involved are moving closer to regarding Him as a mere prophet.
It also says a lot about the socialist perspective that those connected to ’emergent’ theology are working from. They like to paint Christ as a ‘radical’ working to oppose Roman tyranny and ‘speak egalitarian truth to power’. They are often repulsed by the idea of Him being a willing sacrifice for sins, and find it more comfortable to make themselves believe that He was a victim of oppression and social injustice.
Making a god in your own image, in other words.
Eur says
Stockholm syndrome. Trying to appease the beast.
Peter Buckley says
According to the highly contradictory Quran, verse 21:93 actually confirms Jesus’ divinity:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKj4HdDB3gI
Just ask them who Jesus’ father is. Not Joseph, according to this verse of Quran.
Peter Buckley says
Sorry. Verse 21:19……………..
CRUSADER says
Queer’an can be crazy to follow, and it is easy to make missteps on which verse.
But for the main, it is a mess. Why people follow it is a real mystery, except so that they can feel comfort in sharing misery.
gravenimage says
Actually, Peter, that’s Verse 21:91:
“And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples.”
But Muslims have never denied this–they say that “Allah” created Jesus just as he created Adam, and that “Jesus” is not his son.
And the Muslim “Jesus”–really, “Isa”–is not the Savior, and that his main role is to slaughter Christians who don’t convert to Islam in the last days.
simpleton1 says
Seeds of doubt needs to be sown. “Who is the Father of Jesus.?”
The contradiction in the koran can not be easily over looked or explained away.
Did Mohammad get it right?
After all there were the “satanic verses”. Sure not in the koran, but there is a line of sight on them though it is not in a fully authoritative hadith and disputed by the ulema.
A bit of favoritism for Mohammad.
and in a authoritative hadith
These doubts, contradictions need to be exposed. A pressure to be put on the ulema, to keep them very busy, and then their followers will also raise those issues, to be sure of their salvation.
What is wrong with Jesus muslims if it can raise issues about following the violent aspects of the koran and hadith?
As Mortimer raised below about Mark Durie]s understanding of islam,
Jesus muslims may be another way to change islam. or fracture it, gain allies, and even break it.
How ever we must remain firm, and true to our civilisation and word to guard and up hold lfree speech, argue, debate, discuss all parts of islam and their ideology, with bill-boards, cartoons, songs, chants, drawings, quotes, etc. to spread knowledge far and wide, with the sword of truth, welded with a love to find understanding.
That includes our own people !
gravenimage says
simpleton1, Muslims don’t see this as a contradiction. They claim “Jesus”–really, “Isa”–has no father, but was just created.
And Muslims do not seem to have a problem with Muhammed having invented “revelations” whenever it was convenient for him. Aisha may have recognized what was going on–I think she did–but many Muslims would kill any Infidel who suggested the same.
That doesn’t mean we should not point out–and mock–the contradictions of Islam. But I think we would be mistaken if we suppose many Muslims will leave Islam due to anything we might say.
Manny says
Not only is it blasphemous it’s repulsive. Why do I need to “experience” such multi cultural crap? I have no desire to alter Islamic countries and am ardent against my country being altered. This is what happens when you have immigration.
Gjallarhornet says
What’s wrong with altering muslim countries?
I agree with the don’t alter OUR countries bit, but alter theirs? Who wouldn’t if he could? Taking islam out of them and installing a system that would make mulims non-muslims? Sound good in my book!
shosh7154 says
Manny you say: I have no desire to alter Islamic countries.
But what does Jesus say ?
In the story of the three servants who were given talents, G-d spoke to each of these three servants about what they did to work in His vineyard bringing forth the harvest. Which of the three are you ?
Matthew 25:14-30
I am asking the L-rd now for you, for myself and all of us to have opportunities to share the gospel, and that we would do so with power and authority. I do not want to hear the L-rd say “And throw out the worthless servant into the outer darkness; into that place of grief and torment.There will be weeping and grinding of teeth over distress and anger”.
Matthew 9:37-38
Isaiah 12:4
Psalm 105:1
Matthew 9:37–38
John 15:8
Bob Smithies says
List is Islamic countries-
Afghanistan- civil war for the past 30 years.
Iran- homosexuals and adulterers executed in public.
Pakistan- mentally ill country.
Saudi Arabia- women are viewed as half of men. Public executions.
Yemen- civil war and famine.
Algeria- civil war.
Egypt- torture, disappearances, and deaths in custody are common. Civil unrest.
Iraq- Civil war for 15 years. Home of ISIS.
Jordan
Kuwait
Libya- Civil war.
Morocco
Somalia- Civil war
Tunisia- 30 tourists shot on the beach recently.
United Arab Emirates- oil rich but take no refugees or help the poor.
Brunei Darussalam- sharia law in effect. Stoning to death is a punishment.
Does the UK want to be anything like these countries ?
Granddaddy says
Surely someone in the parish will disagree. Right? They can’t all be so gullible as to actually believe that jihad and Jesus go together. It doesn’t make any sense.
abu taleb says
Any Christian should read 9:30 to know a Christian’s position in the eyes of Islam
Quran 9:30 “And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!”
mortimer says
Apparently Bishop Philip North of Burnley has not read the Islamic PRIMARY SOURCE TEXTS and hasn’t a CLUE about what is in them.
BISHOP NORTH…what you are doing is called DHIMMITUDE… theological submission to Islam.
The Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby should get some theologians like Rev. Mark Durie to write a manual for clergy to guide them in Islamic matters.
Why doesn’t Bishop North just give MARK DURIE a phone call in Australia and ask him what he thinks.
Durie has a clear understanding of DHIMMITUDE.
CRUSADER says
“Eucharist of Muhammad”
That’s rich!
Charles T Lawson says
A change from the Moon to the Sun .MIGHT DO THEM GOOD ?
utis says
“… communities working together.” So that means there will be a joint prayer session for the 15 Christian Nigerian villages wiped off the planet? You know, good will, nothing to do with islam, pink poppycock.
LeftisruiningCanada says
The author of the book “The Jihad of Jesus – The Sacred Nonviolent Struggle For Justice” is based in Australia and is not, so far as i can tell, an Anglican.
It seems that he is similar to such characters as Brian Mclaren of Emergent infamy. In other words, a peddler of the fringe left, and, if like Mclaren, by no means within the fold of Christianity at all.
Resources:
http://www.jihadofjesus.com/#welcome
https://books.google.ca/books?id=2j_6CQAAQBAJ&lpg=PR9&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false
LeftisruiningCanada says
http://www.jmm.org.au/articles/36197.htm
http://www.smh.com.au/national/lunch-with-dave-andrews-jihad-for-jesus-20150820-gj3sq0.html
The last link is to an interview with the author, Quite interesting.
From a brief study of the man, it appears to me that he is a well meaning but idealistic man who is perhaps more concerned with Socialist utopian answers to the problems he perceives than in preaching the Gospel. There is a distinct note of post millennial ‘kingdom now’ thinking which, like communism, believes in creating heaven on earth before a golden age occurs. He may be an upside down Brian Mclaren (since he is Oz based), who, from reading two of his books and listening to several debates/interactions, i can confirm is by no means representative of traditional Christianity, to put it very mildly.
He is far too eager in his desire to appease muslim readers by equalizing Christian, muslim, and even Jewish, military actions, (Hitler created the holocaust because Jews were ‘Christ killers’, for example!) and clearly cannot have critically read either koran or ahadith judging from some of things he quotes :
“As Maulana Wahiduddin Khan says, “In all the chapters of the Qur’an, with their hundreds of verses, there is not a single verse which gives the command to kill an abuser of the Prophet”.”
There seems to be no awareness, or perhaps no willingness to admit, that islam as demonstrated by mohammad is totally other when compared to Christianity or Judaism and, though saying that the ‘dream’ of community harmony is ‘improbable’, believes that the main problem is not islam itself but those that misrepresent it.
In that he is not unique.
gravenimage says
Thanks for tracking that down, LeftisruiningCanada. I agree–Dave Andrews–who calls himself a “Christian anarchist”–may or may not be Anglican, but Blackburn Cathedral is.
LeftisruiningCanada says
It is. The attractions of the post modern ’emergent’ theology means it gains followers in all quarters, from the largest Anglican to the smallest independent non denom.
WPM says
I know this article post on Jihad is about the Church of England ,but all Christian churches in the West are in the small trouble.
gravenimage says
True, WPM.
WPM says
That you for posting the link to the article Leftisruiningcanda it shows another man in the movement of red and green united the left uniting with the Islamic to push for the” progressive paradise”. When I read about this “do gooders” Westerners Jetting around the third world spreading their love and money while writing books condemning the Western world I wonder who is bank rolling them? The church might as well invite Wicca worshipers into the fold to have a join understanding of faiths .At least the Wiccans are more upfront in what they believe and do not believe .At least Wiccans do not lying in saying they believe in Jesus to get invited into the church to undermine it. The current Pope I believe is putting his South American Progressive Political beliefs ahead of the true Catholic flocks needs of protecting and spreading Gods words, protection of all Christians.
WPM says
I like to add he uses victimhood in the article you posted to the link by pointing at 911 ,he said it made the Moslems afraid of a backlash ! Nothing about the victims in New York who died their! Then he goes on a soap box and talks about poverty stricken Moslems, all the hijackers were from well to do families living in the West on as “students “.
WPM says
same
gravenimage says
Also, the Wiccans are not trying to take over, nor are they slaughtering non-Wiccans.
MFritz says
It’s another case of IFIS, Idiots For Islam.
Just take a good look at the Hagia Sophia and find out what happens once the cross comes off YOUR own cathedral – and is replaced by the crescent moon.
CRUSADER says
Four decades ago, Muslims in America were a statistically insignificant minority, numbering fewer than one thousand individuals. By contrast, Islam is today the second-largest and fastest growing religion in America, with more than six million adherents.
In “Crescent Moon Rising”, journalist Paul L. Williams examines the phenomenal rise of Islam in the United States and discusses its implications.
In the first half of the book, the author traces the beginnings of Islam in this country, in particular the rise and influence of the Nation of Islam among African Americans. He emphasizes the impact of the 1965 Hart-Cellar Act, which abolished national-origin quotas and led to successive waves of Muslim immigrants, who entered this country from Palestine, Kuwait, Iraq, Southeast Asia, Africa, Turkey, and other parts of the world.
In the second half, Williams considers statistical studies of American Muslims regarding age groups, family size, professional affiliations, annual income, and religious and political commitments. He also addresses a number of disturbing concerns about some aspects of the Muslim presence in America.
These include: the connections between many American mosques with Saudi benefactors who promote an ultra-orthodox, anti-Western agenda; the existence of Muslim paramilitary training grounds recruiting ex-convicts; and the ties of even self-described moderate Muslim spokespersons with more politically radical elements.
Informative and at times controversial,” Crescent Moon Rising” clearly shows that Islam will be a force to reckon with for some time in America.
simpleton1 says
A question needs to be asked
Who is the Father of Jesus
It is all there in koranic scripture. http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/qi030.html Then follow the links to a muslim’s response then the answers to that muslim’s reply.
The hierarchical church can not deny this question should be called out !
It will be a massive rat for muslims to debate, discuss, but there are to many contradictions in the koran.
A seed of doubt to be sown about Mohammad, the perfect man and his sayings about Allah.
Then there is a case where Mohammad got it wrong, with the satanic verses.
Then the abrogation verses, where Aisha, also wondered about the convenience of verses suiting Mohammad.
Then there is the doubt for muslims finding that fundamentalism is not benefiting them in this modern world.
So possibly a part change, Jesus muslims that can will lead to laying down the violent part of the koran.
Islam is brittle, another angle, another excuse, in not entirely following the “perfect man” shown to have had ambiguous faults in his message, and to see and understand the good that can be found in this world, with reasoning.
Chris Malan says
Yes, they want their bread buttered on both sides; Allah is and is not the father of Jesus. That should make perfect sense to a trinitarian who says 1+1+1=1.
simpleton1 says
If only they would apply the teachings of Christ, that would eschew violence as Jesus did in setting a pattern of consideration of justice in the old testament laws that called up violence.
Anything that can start that thought pattern, needs to be leveraged, to bring reasoning and self awareness into that fruitless ideology.
LeftisruiningCanada says
For Chris Malan,
It is off topic, but to say that Trinitarianism claims “1+1+1=1” is to make a category error.
We do not say that 3 Gods = 1 God, which is what muslims and many other cults wrongly say.
We say that there are 3 ‘persons’ within the 1 God. 3 ‘Whos’, 1 “What”.
This is quite different, and does not lead to the contradiction you mention.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
jihad of jesus Will take place when he descends and defeat the Dujjal (the leader of world oppressors) for justice to prevail and bring pagan mithraist christianity to an end
simpleton1 says
Ibrahim itace muhammed Is becoming a Jesus muslim as he learns about “who is the father of Jesus”? 🙂
Say: “If the Lord of Mercy had a son, I would be the first to worship him”. — Sura 43:82
So even Mohammad thought it was a good idea.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
simpleton1,wrong translation and interpretation of Quran 43:82.Read sura ikhlas debunking mithraist pagan doctrines of Godman and begotten son of God
JawsV says
Shut up, Muslim. You’re a deluded fool. And take your “mithraist” cr** and shove it. Shove allah too.
simpleton1 says
Another verse from the koran, as Gabriel told Mohammad.
Allah forbid that He Himself should beget a son! When He decrees a thing He need only say “Be,” and it is. — Sura 19:35
So is Allah unable to beget a son by saying “Be”? Are you saying that Allah can not beget a son.
Are you saying that Allah forbid himself? Why? Who was the father of Jesus? When? “Be” seems to be the answer.
That is why many muslims learn about Jesus and become “Jesus muslims”
AleX says
Yer ”prophet’ mohomot has hooves.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Christ will surely set His own house in order when He comes.
But He will more surely rid the earth of islam, along with all the other filth and sin.
The thing that should concern you, Ibrahim, is where you will be on that day.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Leftruinigcanada,the moment you die as mithraist christian, jesus Will tell you that he did not tell that he was Godman or begotten son of God. The burning hellfire Will start flaming towards your grave and there is no coming back to amend.
LeftisruiningCanada says
While you choose to follow a slaving murdering pervert and bow down before an idol five times a day.
You are taking a very dangerous gamble on your ‘prophet’.
I hope you will see that before the time given you i over.
simpleton1 says
Mohammad thought it was possible, as he would have worshiped Jesus.
“Who was the father of Jesus?” He need only say “Be,” and it is. — Sura 19:35
Can you deny that Allah could be the Father of Jesus, just by “Be”.
Why did Mohammad talk so much of Jesus and that it could “Be”?
It seems that Mohammad thought it was possible.
gravenimage says
The vicious Ibrahim itace muhammed wrote:
jihad of jesus Will take place when he descends and defeat the Dujjal (the leader of world oppressors) for justice to prevail and bring pagan mithraist (sic) christianity to an end
……………………..
In other words, Ibrahim itace muhammed knows that Jihad is *always* violent. Here he is citing the Muslim belief that the main role of the Muslim “Jesus”–really, “Isa”–is to slaughter all Christians who don’t convert to Islam.
And note–what does he consider “oppression”? Being held back from committing genocide against the Christians. *Sickening*.
Michael Copeland says
Memo to Blackburn Cathedral:
“And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him….”
Koran 3:85
part of Islamic law
gravenimage says
+1
Chris Malan says
You said: “It’s always the Christians who host these outreach events to Muslims.” Retards are plentiful in all communities; even in Christianity.
LeftisruiningCanada says
True enough. We have our share of well meaning but short sighted individuals who can’t tell what a wolf looks like.
Dave Rigby says
Don’t you just love multi-faith events ? No, me neither. They always make a statement after the event about how well everything went and that ‘we’ve all got more in common than we imagined’ Yes, except that taqqiya isn’t a thing in other religions. As a matter of interest, I used to live five miles away from Blackburn and the former MP Jack Straw a Labour MP always refused to talk to asian women who had their faces covered. He’d be expelled from the party these days
FYI says
Communities working together sound nice but perhaps the muslims might like to explain the fact that
allah curses Christians because they believe in Jesus koran 9:30
….and explain the following command of allah:-
“Oh ye who believe!Take not the Christians and Jews for friends”
koran 5:51
That might explain why muslims do not reciprocate and why Christians should be wary of islam.
Given that the koran curses Christians,denies Christ,rejects the Trinity(and thus the Holy Spirit..which is why allah gets everything wrong…) sanctions the murder of the innocent classed as “infidels” and contains amoral and immoral teachings permitting child brides,sexual slavery of women,polygamy… any talk about interfaith is nonsense:allah is not even the same as the Biblical God!
allah commands that muslims should not be friends with Christians and Jews. k5:51
What is interesting about this command of allah is that it is utterly at odds with the second Chief Commandment of God:it seems allah missed that.
Laura says
How long before Blackburn cathedral is turned into a mosque?
LeftisruiningCanada says
They’ll be allowed to use a smaller room off to one side for prayers first…..then the pews will be moved out of one area in the main space. Some ‘offending’ items might be quietly taken away, you know, crosses and stuff. After that they might persuade people to let them open the building up during the night for more prayers, but don’t worry, a ‘community leader’ will make sure of security and such. Won’t be long then until it become obvious that the place is being used far more by muslims than Christians, so we might as well sell the place to the House of Saud and have done with it, we can pay cash no problem my friend.
gravenimage says
Grimly likely…
WPM says
Once they let the Moslems have their call to pray heard in the church it is consider a mosque. It is the Moslems duty to change it into a Mosque in due time. Like a dog making its territory is the Moslem call to pray in a building occupy by another faith .In their eyes the whole world is Moslem everyone is Moslem it is by force ,terror , extortion, and lies they want to change the whole world into a miserable Moslem hell pit. The devil can only come into your home,s heart if he is invited. Mohammed the best of conmen with his bible on terror the Koran.
Time 2 says
As a Christian all I can say to these poor mentally diseased sods is “poor sods”. Easy to see how eventually these infected untouchables are becoming wrapped up in the Muslim hustle. Still most healthy people can still spot vermin and still outnumber the mob of degenerates and their Muslim users. Give it time give it time.
Ginger says
Backburn, the reality: https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/673789/Blackburn-Islam-muslim-community-rise-of-the-burka-Koran-religion
The article by a journalist who grew up in Blackburn is over a year old but worth the read. There is no clearer message of what lies ahead when politicians and clergy adopt appeasement and dhimmitude.
LeftisruiningCanada says
To sad for words really isn’t it……
Same story told about Dewsbury by Danny Lockwood. Exactly the same.
Aggression, threats of violence at the slightest ‘provocation’, arrogant gang land culture. This exists in western culture too, but it’s so much worse when islam is the source rather than simple male stupidity and posturing.
This says it all:
““In our religion you’re not supposed to be communicating with men. In our faith if a man looks at you and has feelings for you then it is the woman’s fault.”
Dave Andrews says
Dear Robert, I read that in response to the news of an event based on my book ‘The Jihad Of Jesus’ you said: ‘Great. So there will be an honest discussion of obstacles to working together, won’t there? And a forthright mutual exchange about how those obstacles can be surmounted? Somehow I doubt it.’ You may be pleasantly surprised to know that in the first 40 to 50 pages of my book I explore the ‘obstacles to working together’, specifically the history of the on and off so called ‘Holy Wars’ between us and the personal, political and spiritual factors on both sides that drive those wars. The next 100 pages explores how we can draw on spiritual resources in both our traditions that can help us to overcome those obstacles, and work together, even in conflict zones, for peace and justice. Take care, Dave Andrews