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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

UK judge tells Tube jihadi: “You’ll have plenty of time to study the Koran in prison…the Koran is a book of peace”

Mar 23, 2018 4:00 pm By Robert Spencer

Has Mr Justice Haddon-Cave ever actually read the Qur’an? Almost certainly not; otherwise he wouldn’t have gone on record with this spectacularly asinine and counterfactual statement.

Is the Qur’an really a book of peace?

“And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from where they drove you out; persecution is worse than slaughter. But fight them not by the Holy Mosque until they should fight you there; then, if they fight you, kill them — such is the recompense of unbelievers, but if they give over, surely Allah is all-forgiving, all-compassionate. Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is Allah’s; then if they give over, there shall be no enmity save for evildoers.” (Qur’an 2:191-193)

“They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore do not take friends from among them, until they emigrate in the way of Allah; then, if they turn their backs, seize them and kill them wherever you find them; do not take for yourselves any one of them as friend or helper.” (Qur’an 4:89)

“This is the recompense of those who fight against Allah and His Messenger, and hasten about the earth to do corruption there: they shall be killed, or crucified, or their hands and feet shall be struck off on opposite sides; or they shall be exiled from the land. That is a degradation for them in this world; and in the world to come awaits them a mighty chastisement.” (Qur’an 5:33)

“When your Lord was revealing to the angels, ‘I am with you; so confirm the believers. I shall cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers; so strike the necks, and strike every finger of them!” (Qur’an 8:12)

“Fight them, till there is no persecution and religion is all for Allah; then if they give over, surely Allah sees the things they do.” (Qur’an 8:39)

“Make ready for them whatever force and strings of horses you can, to strike terror into the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others besides them that you know not; Allah knows them. And whatever you spend in the way of Allah shall be repaid you in full; you will not be wronged.” (Qur’an 8:60)

“Then, when the sacred months are over, kill the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them, and confine them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent, and perform the prayer, and pay the alms, then let them go their way; Allah is All-forgiving, All-compassionate.” (Qur’an 9:5)

“Fight those who believe not in Allah and the Last Day and do not forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, and do not practice the religion of truth, even if they are of the People of the Book — until they pay the jizya with willing submission and feel themselves subdued.” (Qur’an 9:29)

“Allah has bought from the believers their selves and their possessions against the gift of Paradise; they fight in the way of Allah; they kill, and are killed; that is a promise binding upon Allah in the Torah, and the Gospel, and the Koran; and who fulfils his covenant truer than Allah? So rejoice in the bargain you have made with Him; that is the mighty triumph.” (Qur’an 9:111)

“O believers, fight the unbelievers who are near to you; and let them find in you a harshness; and know that Allah is with the godfearing.” (Qur’an 9:123)

“When you meet the unbelievers, strike their necks, then, when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds; then set them free, either by grace or ransom, till the war lays down its loads. So it shall be; and if Allah had willed, He would have avenged Himself upon them; but that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will not send their works astray.” (Qur’an 47:4)

Does Islam really forbid terrorism?

“We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve for what they have associated with Allah of which He had not sent down authority. And their refuge will be the Fire, and wretched is the residence of the wrongdoers.” (Qur’an 3:151)

“When your Lord inspired to the angels, ‘I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip.’” (Qur’an 8:12)

“And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know, whom Allah knows. And whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not be wronged.” (Qur’an 8:60)

A hadith has Muhammad saying: “I have been made victorious with terror.” (Bukhari 4.52. 220)

“Parsons Green terrorist is jailed for at least 34 years after the judge rules he lied about only being 18,” by Martin Evans, Telegraph, March 23, 2018:

The Parsons Green bomber lied about his age in order to remain in the UK sparking renewed questions over the screening of child migrants.

Iraqi born, Ahmed Hassan, entered Britain illegally three years ago and then applied for asylum, claiming to be a 16-year orphan, who had keen kidnapped by Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (Isil).

Hassan was jailed for life with a minimum of 34-years, after being convicted of attempting to murder dozens of commuters on a packed rush hour train at Parsons Green in south west London.

But the case raises serious questions over the ability of officials to weed out asylum seekers who try to take advantage of the system by claiming to be children.

Two years ago the Government came in for intense criticism when pictures emerged showing applicants who appeared to be much older than 17, claiming to be unaccompanied child migrants.

Home Office officials later suggested they might look older because of the ordeals they had suffered,

But critics have insisted the system is open to exploitation and offers a potential gateway for terrorists to enter the UK.

Mr Justice Haddon-Cave, told Hassan the length of the sentence reflected the fact he did not believe he was only 18 and said he hoped the amount of time he spent in prison would give him the chance to study the Koran properly.

More than 50 people were injured when the bomb partially detonated sending a fireball down the busy carriage of the District Line train last September.

But it is feared scores would have been killed if the device, which was packed with 400g of ‘Mother of Satan’ explosives, had functioned as Hassan had intended.

At his sentencing hearing at the Old Bailey, the judge said: “Your intention that morning was to kill as many members of the British public as possible by planting the IED (improvised explosive device) on a busy commuter Tube train.”

He went on: “You will have plenty of time to study the Koran in Prison… the Koran is a book of peace… Islam forbids breaking the law of the land…..Islam forbids terror.”

Hassan came to Britain hidden in the the back of a lorry in Autumn of 2015, around the time the government relaxed the rules on accepting asylum applications from unaccompanied minors.

He was found a place in a Barnardo’s children’s home and made a formal asylum application to the Home Office in January 2016.

Hassan told officials his parents had been killed and he had been kidnapped by Isil and trained to kill by them….

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Filed Under: Featured, Qur'an, United Kingdom, Useful idiots, willful ignorance Tagged With: Ahmed Hassan, Mr Justice Haddon-Cole


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Comments

  1. Michael Copeland says

    Mar 23, 2018 at 4:03 pm

    Yet another self-appointed Islamic scholar.
    He learnt his Islam from David Cameron and Theresa May.
    Enough said.

    • Halal Bacon says

      Mar 23, 2018 at 4:22 pm

      He may well have learned his islam from a bottle of Scotch

      • Andy says

        Mar 23, 2018 at 11:07 pm

        The UK: RISE of the Anarcho-Tyranny STATE

        • Andy says

          Mar 24, 2018 at 12:39 am

          Orwellian Britain 2018 | Count Dankula Guilty | Twitter Police

      • Andy says

        Mar 25, 2018 at 1:08 pm

        British citizens or UK residents

        Sign petition

        Create a Freedom of Speech Act and Bring an End to “Hate Speech” laws

        https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/203615

        • Ezra says

          Mar 25, 2018 at 1:51 pm

          Andy, I wish you success from America, but I do not have much hope that most of your countrymen really prize free speech to the extent that they would support a ‘First Amendment’ style freedom of speech & thought. I think that Europeans are far too politically correct (especially with respect to the followers of the religion of peace) to protect thought and speech. After all, words can hurt people’s feelings (and as a side issue but important nonetheless, everyone knows guns can just jump up and kill people). But Brits have little recourse now against the government now that it has criminalized your speech and thought – they have caved to the mullahs and disarmed you! Good luck becoming a free people once again – probably ain’t gonna happen.

    • Gart says

      Mar 23, 2018 at 6:04 pm

      @Michael Copeland , yep a non muslim telling a muslim what his faith should be, a non sequitur.

      • Jayell says

        Mar 23, 2018 at 9:19 pm

        Correction. A non-muslim telling a muslim what he (from a Christian background) thinks islam ought to be – which of course has absolutely nothing to do with islam. And assuming the Qur’an to be the sequel to the New Testament from the fanciful sales blurb on the back of a cheap paperback edition.

        • Ezra says

          Mar 24, 2018 at 11:01 am

          Yes, when we have corrupt judges with ignorant ideas of history we get stupid pronouncements from the bench.

    • Save Europe says

      Mar 23, 2018 at 7:55 pm

      The judge is insane. He’s clearly unaware of Paedo Moh’s behaviour from the Medina part within the Koran and onwards. Plus of courses ‘those’ 109 Satanic verses.

    • Sons of Liberty says

      Mar 24, 2018 at 2:27 am

      This Judge is a moron ,…just like many of the Judges we have in our Judiciary who are blocking the Trump ban . These idiots are like the Mayor in the movie ‘ Jaws ‘, when the shark expert says ” I can see you aren’t going to deal with this problem until it swims up and BITES you in the ass ” ! Except in this case until a jihadi strikes at their NECK !

    • J D S says

      Mar 24, 2018 at 9:40 am

      No Mr. Judge…Islam does not forbid terrorism..it promotes terrorism.
      The judge, no all judges should be required Maybe forced to read
      the Koran and hdits and all material associated with this cult

    • roger woodhouse says

      Mar 24, 2018 at 11:48 am

      This old goat posing as a judge is typical of many in the establishment.Totally ignorant about the ‘religion of peace’and of course anxious not to tread to harshly on any muslim who might be ‘offended’This sums up the vice like grip we in Britain are in.Led and ruled by people who never take the trouble to ‘test ‘their opinions by listening to any opposition to their mindsets but are happy to pontificate on issues they refuse to try and grasp but are of real concern to the public at large.Time is fast running out for this ruling elite.

    • Philip says

      Mar 25, 2018 at 4:11 am

      What a bunch of idiots! Clearly the judge was being sarcastic! Look it up—with a Dictionary (it’s a book). The important point is that the judge did not just slap they killer’s wrist as is occurring so much more often these days or allow some attorney to try to make up some excuse for the killer’s deadly, psychotic behavior.

  2. Gjallarhornet says

    Mar 23, 2018 at 4:23 pm

    The jugde on the other hand must be very busy. He has obviously never had time to *read* the koran. If he had had the time on his hands to read it, he would never say such silly things, like stating it’s a book of peace. How about long, extended holidays this summer? Then he can read up on the koran and islam and come back with a correct view and make himself useful. Have a good trip!

    • Michael Copeland says

      Mar 23, 2018 at 4:33 pm

      Just Chapter 9 will do, after understanding that it over-rules and “abrogates” all those nice peaceful verses elsewhere. He can even find it online, at no cost at corpus.quran.com.

      • Gjallarhornet says

        Mar 23, 2018 at 4:43 pm

        Yes, this can be done during Easter. The judge should get right to it. Just give him an order to do so, there is nothing delusional British upper class liberals hate more than being barked orders at. Barking orders? “That is our job”, would be the response.

      • mortimer says

        Mar 24, 2018 at 9:20 am

        Agree with Copeland. Chapter 9 is the TURNING-POINT chapter and GAME-CHANGER which abrogates the preceding chapters.

        Chapter 9, however does require explanation to provide HOW IT IS CANONICALLY UNDERSTOOD by the CONSENSUS of Islamic scholars in whose following are the JIHADISTS.

        The only difference of opinion Muslims have about the JIHAD COMMANDS is one of SPEED and URGENCY.

        ‘Moderate’ Muslims want a slow-motion jihad. ‘Radical’ Muslims want an accelerated pace of jihad. That is the only difference in interpretation.

  3. Terry Gain says

    Mar 23, 2018 at 4:30 pm

    If the Koran is peaceful, perhaps Justice Haddon-Cave (to Islam) can explain Islam’s history of conquest and why Muslims have been misinterpreting the Koran for 1400 years. Bloody fool.

    • LeftisruiningCanada says

      Mar 24, 2018 at 2:55 pm

      It’s peace Jim, but not as we know it

  4. CogitoErgoSum says

    Mar 23, 2018 at 4:34 pm

    There IS a Holy Trinity in Islam and it consists of the Quran, the Hadith and the life story of Muhammad. All three parts argue against the judge’s words. The judge is guilty of ignorance and should be sentenced to studying the Holy Trinity of Islam and then should check back with us regularly to see how his rehabilitation is coming along.

    • mortimer says

      Mar 23, 2018 at 7:19 pm

      CES, bravo! His punishment is just… READ THE BOOKS.

  5. shoehorn says

    Mar 23, 2018 at 4:38 pm

    “the Koran is a book of peace…”
    sure; he heard it … somewhere?

    • Westman says

      Mar 23, 2018 at 11:03 pm

      From smiling Muslim representatives whose art of lying is so smooth that Justice Haddon-Cave has no idea he has been compromised. Islam now has its hand upon the scale of justice.

      • Anne Smith says

        Mar 24, 2018 at 6:55 am

        Yes and has had for quite some time. The Muslims have worked hard at getting into the legal professions. They are everywhere in them, barristers, advisers, judges etc. etc.

        The average Brit is too busy earning an honest living to take much notice, until they are directly affected by it.

    • gravenimage says

      Mar 24, 2018 at 2:42 pm

      Yep.

  6. Yohanan says

    Mar 23, 2018 at 5:00 pm

    Facetious under the wig? Was this British humour? Did the convicting judge squint when he said, “the Koran is a book of peace”?

    • mortimer says

      Mar 23, 2018 at 7:21 pm

      Yohanan, I suspect you are right on that!

      • Save Europe says

        Mar 23, 2018 at 7:57 pm

        Sadly I doubt it. Genuinely.

    • Arthur says

      Mar 23, 2018 at 7:52 pm

      I don’t think so. After watching some of the responses to British politicians speaking in their legislative house, I think they sincerely believe the “Religion of Peace” story. They really are that deluded

  7. Notmoron says

    Mar 23, 2018 at 5:13 pm

    Hitler must be disappointed right now in the hell for not using the other Mein Kampf(Koran) to conquer Europe.

    • revereridesagain says

      Mar 23, 2018 at 6:40 pm

      Didn’t wanna have to share the credit…

    • Arthur says

      Mar 23, 2018 at 7:51 pm

      I don’t think so. After watching some of the responses to British politicians speaking in their legislative house, I think they sincerely believe the “Religion of Peace” story. They really are that deluded.

  8. No Fear says

    Mar 23, 2018 at 5:31 pm

    If the Quran is a book of peace then why does it have a chapter named “War Booty”?

    • gravenimage says

      Mar 24, 2018 at 1:32 am

      Yes–that in itself is very damning. I doubt this judge even knows about this, though.

  9. christianblood says

    Mar 23, 2018 at 5:44 pm

    How does this animal knows that the Quran is a book of peace???

  10. JMB says

    Mar 23, 2018 at 5:46 pm

    Yes, he will have plenty of time to study the Koran while he is in prison and he most certainly will. He will have a taxpayer funded Muslim chaplain and will be allowed visits from his local cleric. He will have some visiting rights from any of his wives or children who by now will absolutely hate the UK (Or Australia when this happens here) even though that whole extended family will on taxpayer funded welfare. But most of all, all of his hate and intention to terrorise will be fermented further by his ongoing contact with other Muslims, usually terrorists in that jail.

    • gravenimage says

      Mar 24, 2018 at 2:06 am

      Yes–that we are proving this manual of war to Muslim criminals is utterly insane.

  11. elee says

    Mar 23, 2018 at 5:47 pm

    Read up and wake up milord.

  12. mortimer says

    Mar 23, 2018 at 5:52 pm

    No doubt Sir Charles Anthony Haddon-Cave is quite learnèd in British law, but if so, that says to me that he has NOT SPENT SEVERAL YEARS reading the almost 2 MILLION words of the PRIMARY ISLAMIC SOURCE TEXTS and canonical commentaries.

    Without reading the PRIMARY ISLAMIC SOURCE TEXTS and commentaries, by what AUGURY, I pray, does the learnèd judge DEDUCE, SURMISE, ELICIT, SUPPOSE or GUESS that Islam is a religion of peace? Or that the Koran teaches peace?

    I maintain that Sir Charles CANNOT guess what is in the ISLAMIC SOURCE TEXTS without actually READING THEM.

    MESSAGE TO SIR CHARLES: Kindly read ONLY the 164 JIHAD VERSES in the Koran and see if that changes Your Lordship’s mind:

    K 002:178-179, 190-191, 193-194, 216-218, 244; 003:121-126, 140-143, 146, 152-158, 165-167,169, 172-173, 195; 004:071-072, 074-077, 084, 089-091, 094-095,100-104; 005:033, 035, 082; 008:001, 005, 007, 009-010, 012, 015-017, 039-048,057-060, 065-075; 009:005, 012-014, 016, 019-020, 024-026, 029,036, 038-039, 041, 044, 052, 073, 081, 083,086, 088, 092, 111, 120, 122-123; 016:110; 022:039, 058, 078; 024:053, 055; 025:052; 029:006, 069; 033:015, 018, 020, 023, 025-027, 050; 042:039; 047:004, 020, 035; 048:015-024; 049:015; 059:002, 005-008, 014; 060:009; 061:004, 011, 013; 063:004; 064:014; 066:009; 073:020; 076:008.

    • Winston says

      Mar 24, 2018 at 5:50 am

      According to Religion of Peace website there have been 32,774 deadly attacks since 9/11.

      Suppose a documentary film was produced which examined each attack for 5 minutes a viewer of the film would need to set aside 163,870 minutes, that is to say 2,731 hours in order to watch it.

      In other words such a documentary film would be 113 days in length. That doesn’t sound very peaceful to me.

      • Infidel says

        Mar 24, 2018 at 6:42 am

        Very aptly put… I just loved it!!!

      • gravenimage says

        Mar 24, 2018 at 4:57 pm

        +1

      • No Fear says

        Mar 25, 2018 at 4:33 am

        +1

    • Anne Smith says

      Mar 24, 2018 at 6:57 am

      Suggest you write a polite letter to the learned judge informing him of all this. If no one tells him how will he ever learn?

      • gravenimage says

        Mar 24, 2018 at 5:14 pm

        Spot on, Anne.

  13. St. Manuel II Palaiologos says

    Mar 23, 2018 at 5:53 pm

    Pure insanity.

    • Michael Copeland says

      Mar 24, 2018 at 9:58 am

      Negligence.

  14. Papa Whiskey says

    Mar 23, 2018 at 6:17 pm

    Can someone explain why British jurists sport those goofy-looking wigs? Presumably they’re a badge of rank, but they seem rather less than imposing.

    • Indiana Tom says

      Mar 23, 2018 at 6:39 pm

      Cross dressing.

    • mortimer says

      Mar 23, 2018 at 7:23 pm

      Papa, at one AMERICAN judges wore wigs imposing gowns. The judges in Maryland still wear British style court room attire.

      • mortimer says

        Mar 23, 2018 at 7:24 pm

        correction…at one AMERICAN judges wore wigs AND imposing gowns

  15. Indiana Tom says

    Mar 23, 2018 at 6:38 pm

    the Koran is a book of peace… yes, after everyone else is dead.

    • CogitoErgoSum says

      Mar 23, 2018 at 6:51 pm

      Even then, after you are dead and buried a Muslim may just come along and wreak violence on the cross above your grave.

      • CogitoErgoSum says

        Mar 23, 2018 at 7:07 pm

        There are a lot of crosses over the graves at Normandy American Cemetery in France. If the Muslims ever take control of France, what will happen there? I’ve heard that cemetery is considered U.S. soil. Will we be willing to stand up for our dead …. or will we submit?

        • WPM says

          Mar 23, 2018 at 7:24 pm

          My uncle is bury there he died protecting Western Europe while the current idiots in charge are handing it over to 7 century Nazi Islamics the irony of it. My father and two other Uncles fought there also all of them should be turning over in their graves!

        • Save Europe says

          Mar 24, 2018 at 12:49 am

          There were already cases of the desecration of UK forces’ war graves, circa 6-8 years ago. I recall it well, as Sarkozy made an apology to the UK. In regards to your post – I have thought the very same as you. Ironically, whilst in Belgium, earlier this month, I visited a war cemetery in Koksijde, and was concerned, like yourself.

        • gravenimage says

          Mar 24, 2018 at 2:22 am

          Muslims have already begun desecrating the cemeteries of Allied war dead in places like North Africa:

          “British war graves in Libya desecrated by Islamist militants”

          https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/mar/04/libya-war-graves-desecrated

        • Indiana Tom says

          Mar 24, 2018 at 8:11 am

          Muslims have already begun desecrating the cemeteries of Allied war dead in places like North Africa:
          “British war graves in Libya desecrated by Islamist militants”
          The Muslims in North Africa loved Adolph Hitler and the Nazis in WWII. I have seen photos of the vermin carrying Nazi propaganda posters which were “collected” by American troops.

  16. Michael Copeland says

    Mar 23, 2018 at 6:45 pm

    “O Muslims, Islam was never for a day the religion of peace. Islam is the religion of war.”
    Al Baghdadi, Caliph of Islamic State,
    PhD in Islamic Studies

    But no, Judge Haddon-Cave knows better.

  17. revereridesagain says

    Mar 23, 2018 at 6:48 pm

    If it might ever be imagined that Mr. Justice Haddon-Cave would take Mortimer’s excellent advice (see earlier comment) and bother to study the Koran himself, he would recognize that what he is prescribing is known as prison dawah and will simply create more jihadists. But then that would be way too much trouble and probably cause his equally Islamophilia-blinded colleagues to frown at him, so indeed why bother?

    After all, it’s not as if the encroaching ruination of British civilization by Muslims will ever affect him, or any family or children he might have…..

  18. Phil Copson says

    Mar 23, 2018 at 7:20 pm

    He doesn’t want to know – he isn’t called “Justice Hide-in-cave” for nothing…

  19. Frankz says

    Mar 23, 2018 at 7:45 pm

    That’s what they tell him. Heaven help us.

  20. Frankz says

    Mar 23, 2018 at 7:48 pm

    He would only need to look at the radicalisation that’s going on in prisons but he’s not really interested in the prisons he’s sending people to maybe.

  21. aurielle says

    Mar 23, 2018 at 8:17 pm

    thought the good ole judge was being sarcastic

  22. kouldb says

    Mar 23, 2018 at 11:22 pm

    Another craven, smug, venal & dangerous imbecile of a judge.

  23. Lydia Church says

    Mar 24, 2018 at 12:34 am

    It almost sounds like sarcasm,the ‘tongue in cheek’ variety!

    : D

  24. eduardo odraude says

    Mar 24, 2018 at 1:05 am

    Justice Haddon-Cave: liar? ignoramus? coward? conformist? All four? You decide.

  25. gravenimage says

    Mar 24, 2018 at 1:13 am

    UK judge tells Tube jihadi: “You’ll have plenty of time to study the Koran in prison…the Koran is a book of peace”
    ……………………

    What an ignorant fool this judge is!

  26. Chand says

    Mar 24, 2018 at 5:22 am

    “Is the Qur’an really a book of peace?”

    Well, yes and no.

    It was written during times of war and strife in barbaric Arabia, fourteen centuries ago, by a former caravan raider turned Messenger of God, who was no non-violent, forgiving soul like the previous Messenger Jesus Christ.

    Yet most Muslims live, or at least try to live, peaceful lives. How come?
    How audacious of them to defy the Messenger sent by God!

    Battles fought in Arabia in the 7th century have no relevance for anything or anyone today. The passages on war and killing in the Koran are just that too. They were only referring to the state of affairs prevailing THEN.

    But also the Koran is a manual for jihad if war comes to Muslims.

    Most Muslims do not want war and horror, like most people. But if war does happen some of them will be inspired and led by the Koran.

    As an atheist my only hope is that all religions will be transcended by humankind in the future. Including Islam.
    Phew! That would be a relief.
    But targeting only Islam is futile.
    Because that is exactly what the Koran preaches……………..”you are the true believers of God and you will be attacked by infidels just because of that. So fight!”

    • LeftisruiningCanada says

      Mar 24, 2018 at 3:29 pm

      “But if war does happen some of them will be inspired and led by the Koran.”

      Getting a bit tricksy there Chand….not only are you seeming to blame Jihad only upon the actions of the unbelievers, but you are also not being completely up front about how the idea of ‘war’ is thought of by muslims.

      Your idea of what are relevant today or not, may not be shared by many influential leaders of islam.

      If the New Testament was full of commands to kill and mutilate the unbelievers, then you would have a point about not only targeting islam. But, the life of Christ is so far above the reproaches that mohammad rightfully deserves, that there is no comparison.

      The fact still remains that Christianity followed produces better people who are less violent and more forgiving.

      The opposite is the case for rightly followed islam as manifested by mohammad.

      • gravenimage says

        Mar 24, 2018 at 7:21 pm

        +1

      • Chand says

        Mar 25, 2018 at 8:55 am

        LeftisruiningCanada says:”The fact still remains that Christianity followed produces better people who are less violent and more forgiving.”

        Agreed LeftisruiningCanada. But the key word here is ‘followed’. Many pretend to follow Christ but maintain their instincts, following their genetically given reptilian/competitive brains.

        • LeftisruiningCanada says

          Mar 25, 2018 at 1:09 pm

          A Christianized culture tends to lead to better behaved non believers, because the basic assumptions of Christian morality set the standard.

          Even if people never even read a word of the NT, the ideas that you should ‘love your neighbor as yourself” or ‘turn the other cheek’ are the accepted foundation of what everybody deep down thinks is “the right thing to do.”

          Telling the truth, fidelity in marriage, not stealing things and not physically attacking people are all deeply rooted in Christ himself, even for those who don’t follow him.

          Mohammads example is somewhat different.

    • gravenimage says

      Mar 24, 2018 at 6:18 pm

      The dishonest Chand wrote:

      “Is the Qur’an really a book of peace?”

      Well, yes and no.

      It was written during times of war and strife in barbaric Arabia, fourteen centuries ago, by a former caravan raider turned Messenger of God, who was no non-violent, forgiving soul like the previous Messenger Jesus Christ.
      ………………………….

      Chand would have us believe that Muhammed was a “messenger” of God, just like Jesus. This is, actually, the Muslim view–that Christ has nothing to do with Christianity.

      He also would have us believe that the Muhammed was on violent because he lived in a violent period. But this is false–Jesus lived in a violent time; that did not make him violent.

      And while dark ages Arabia was a rather barbaric place, it is notable that save for a few skirmishes and caravan raids that all the violence in the Qur’an was *perpetrated by Muslims themselves*. The only full-scale wars are Muslim. So Chand has this exactly backwards–Islam is not violent because of the age; the age was violent because of Islam.

      More:

      Yet most Muslims live, or at least try to live, peaceful lives. How come?
      How audacious of them to defy the Messenger sent by God!
      ………………………….

      What absolute rot. Firstly, an increasing number of Muslims are *anything* but peaceful, as the skyrocketing rates of Jihad terror prove every day. Then, Chand hopes that we are unfamiliar with the concept of “Fard Ayn” and “Fard Kalifa”. In most cases, not every Muslim has to wage violent Jihad (Fard Ayn) so long as there are those in commumnity who *are* waging violent Jihad (Fard Kalifa). Most Muslim scholars consider this a period of Fard Kalifa.

      Then, how many Muslims actually condemn the waging of violent Jihad? Very few.

      More:

      Battles fought in Arabia in the 7th century have no relevance for anything or anyone today. The passages on war and killing in the Koran are just that too. They were only referring to the state of affairs prevailing THEN.
      ………………………….

      Utter claptrap. The Qur’an itself says that the Qur’an and the model of the “Prophet” Muhammed is *good for all time*. Chand must know this.

      More:

      But also the Koran is a manual for jihad if war comes to Muslims.

      Most Muslims do not want war and horror, like most people. But if war does happen some of them will be inspired and led by the Koran.
      ………………………….

      “If war comes to Muslims”–what rot. Chand is pretending that it is the mean old Infidels who are waging war on Muslims for no reason–instead of what is *really* happening–that Muslims are attacking Infidels all over the world.

      More:

      As an atheist my only hope is that all religions will be transcended by humankind in the future. Including Islam.
      Phew! That would be a relief.
      But targeting only Islam is futile.
      ………………………….

      More bulls*t–pretending that all religions are violent, and that Islam is no different. This is obvious claptrap–the Qur’an itself teaches the violent tageting of unbelivers.

      More:

      Because that is exactly what the Koran preaches……………..”you are the true believers of God and you will be attacked by infidels just because of that. So fight!”
      ………………………….

      Firstly, this Qur’anic “quote” appears to be made up–I can find no such actual verse.

      Moreover, what do such “attacks” consist of? Per the Qur’an itself, the mere existence of Infidels living freely and not forced to submit to Islam is an “attack” on Muslims–Fitna. No doubt the dishonest Chand is well aware of this.

      • Chand says

        Mar 25, 2018 at 8:48 am

        gravenimage says:”More bulls*t–pretending that all religions are violent, and that Islam is no different. This is obvious claptrap–the Qur’an itself teaches the violent tageting of unbelivers.”

        All peoples following all religions have targeted others, labeling them as heretics, unbelievers, pagans, idolators, witches, infidels, apostates, racially inferior, spiritually corrupt, etc.
        Christians have done so and so have Muslims.

      • Chand says

        Mar 25, 2018 at 9:02 am

        gravenimage says: “Then, how many Muslims actually condemn the waging of violent Jihad? Very few.”

        Condemn?
        Muslims themselves are facing the major brunt of jihadi terrorism. It is the Muslims who are going thru hell trying to defeat the Jihadis everywhere.
        You know, the millions uprooted; the Muslims facing the bullets, car bombs, knives; the millions of families shattered, the nightmares of children……………..

        They condemn I’m sure. Right after they somehow manage to escape death and fire and live another day……………………………….

        • Chand says

          Mar 25, 2018 at 9:09 am

          “Firstly, this Qur’anic “quote” appears to be made up–I can find no such actual verse.”

          Yes, gravenimage, I made this up. Was just trying to provide a gist of the Koran. The concise Koran in two sentences, that is.

  27. henrik jensen says

    Mar 24, 2018 at 5:28 am

     Mr Justice Haddon-Cave : “my salary is 4.99 £/ hour. “

  28. R Russell says

    Mar 24, 2018 at 5:31 am

    If I didn’t live within the OK I would do this myself. Is there anyone out there in the international reading community who would send this man an email with the places in the Koran and Hadiths which show that this man was carrying out the instructions contained within? Oh and please remember to mention the Law of Abrogation for it is possible someone showed him the earlier verses and he has been duped.
    I cannot do it. I would be tracked down – I am in no doubt about that.
    If Theresa May can tell us Islam is a noble religion, there isn’t much hope for this judge.

  29. George Williams says

    Mar 24, 2018 at 8:29 am

    That’s what you have to say in Britain to keep your job in government these days.

  30. FYI says

    Mar 24, 2018 at 8:44 am

    “the koran is a book of peace….islam forbids terror”

    OBJECTION M’LUD!
    {sustained}

    Reason vs Regina

    witness for the defence:

    1.muhammed: “I am made victorious through TERROR”
    {ref Bukhari 4:52:220}
    2. the violent teachings of the koran
    3.1,400 years of terror,war and conquest in the name of allah

    oh wait a minute,that’s not the defence…that’s the prosecution isn’t it?

    “islam forbids terror”:evidence suggests that statement to be FALSE.
    islam and its prophet,ADMIT to sanctioning terror.

    case closed.

    Sentence;M’Lud Haddon-Cave is to read the koran(properly)and ask Counsel from JW expert,
    the greatly esteemed and highly honoured,Mr Robert Spencer.
    And get rid of that silly wig will you?It’s the 21st century M’Lud.

    ………………………..
    There is somebody who thinks the koran is a book of peace(..apart from Tony Blair and the dalai Lama)

    Well,pope francis thinks the koran is a book of peace.

    “authentic islam and the proper reading of the koran are opposed to every form of violence”

    ..which of course means that he never bothered to read it,because that sort of statement is the type that political spin-doctors take ages to write.

    francis might have missed this delightfully evil and perversely wicked teaching {koran 22 v 19-21}directed at non-muslims…

    “But for those who disbelieve,garments of fire will be cut out for them,boiling fluid will be poured down their heads,whereby that which is in their bellies and their skins too will be melted
    And for them are hooked rods of iron”
    Koran 22 v 19-21

    There are a number of different forms of violence there…Did francis miss some of the koran?

    If somebody said that ” authentic Nazism and the proper reading of mein kampf are opposed to every form of anti-semitism” you would know that they knew nothing about the subject matter.

    Exactly like francis and most dhimmiwits;they refuse to believe the evidence.

  31. Jan Aage Jeppesen says

    Mar 24, 2018 at 10:18 am

    Is the Qur’an really a book of peace?

    Of course it is, just as Mein Kampf is a book of peace.

    The judge probably did not read either books but has never the less strong opinions about them in accordance with the prevailing paradigm in society. That is how it works everywhere.

    I read both books and in my opinion the Qur’ans numerous divine demands for unrestricted open ended warfare against all unbelievers are not found in Hitler’s political manifest. Here the political aim is to conquer new land in east and topple the Marxist regime in the Soviet Union. And of course to make the conditions for the German Jews so unbearable that they by themselves immigrate and leave a clean Arian state behind.

    Nazism died with Hitler and the collapse of The Third Reich, but Islamic warfare – Jihad – against the unbelievers will continue as long as there is one unbeliever left, or until the vast majority of Muslims conclude that the belligerent verses of the Qur’an were only valid for Muslims living at the time of the Prophet and are not binding for Muslims in this day and age.

    • gravenimage says

      Mar 24, 2018 at 7:29 pm

      Nice little whitewash of the Holocaust there, I see…

      • Jan Aage Jeppesen says

        Mar 24, 2018 at 8:30 pm

        If you can find one word about genocide or Holocaust in Mein Kamp I like to hear about it.

        At the most you can say that the possibility of genocide was not ruled out and could be an implicit consequence of racial social Darwinism – a strong element in National Socialism.

        Let me suggest you read “The Al Qaeda Reader and Mein Kampf” (2007) by Raymond Ibrahim.

        Nazism became radicalized as war broke out in September, 1939. One week before the attack on Poland Hitler unformed his army commanders:

        “I have issued the command – and I’ll have anybody who utters but one word of criticism executed by a firing squad – that our war aim does not consist in reaching certain lines, but in the physical destruction of the enemy. Accordingly, I have placed my death-head formation in readiness – for the present only in the East – with orders to them to send to death mercilessly and without compassion, men, women, and children of Polish derivation and language. Only thus shall we gain the living space (Lebensraum) which we need. Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?”

        Not the Muslim Turks, thats for sure and they are still in denial.

        That Hitler got inspiration from the Turkish genocide of the Armenians seems evident.

        A similar radicalization can be found in the Quran between the first Meccan and later Medina chapters. The Mecca Quran was all about tolerance, tranquility, spirituality, acceptance, and inner cleansing through submission to the word of Allah. This earlier part of the Quran also dictated many of the rules that individual Muslims must perform and abide in their day-to-day lives. Jihad and the extermination of Jews are introduced in the Medina chapters.

        So I am not trying to whitewash Nazism or downplay the Holocaust. But I will say that the Muslims handled the Jews much smarter than the Nazis by forcing them to submission as dhimmies and pay jizya to avoid being killed by Jihad. The Nazis killed the golden goose and that is plain stupid.

        • Robert Spencer says

          Mar 25, 2018 at 2:47 pm

          In reality, Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf about the eradication of the Jews from Europe.

        • LeftisruiningCanada says

          Mar 25, 2018 at 3:48 pm

          Mien Kampf contains many references to Jews being “bubonic plague” “cancer” “black death” and being responsible for every ill, supposed or real, that troubled Germany and the world.

          And that was written in 1924-7, depending which volume we mean.

          Though not apparently anti semitic in any noticeable way prior to reaching Vienna in his teens, Hitler certainly can be seen calling for the physical extermination of Jews from 1922 onwards:

          “”If I am ever really in power, the destruction of the Jews will be my first and most important job. As soon as I have power, I shall have gallows after gallows erected, for example, in Munich on the Marienplatz-as many of them as traffic allows. Then the Jews will be hanged one after another, and they will stay hanging until they stink. They will stay hanging as long as hygienically possible. As soon as they are untied, then the next group will follow and that will continue until the last Jew in Munich is exterminated. Exactly the same procedure will be followed in other cities until Germany is cleansed of the last Jew!”

          https://books.google.ca/books?id=qPV_rGdhYpkC&pg=PA17&lpg=PA17&dq=hitler+1922+hell+hews+gallows&source=bl&ots=2AJQfnyskQ&sig=2gSLDBqFpF2Hw7XR7aHAdts__V0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwivv-fanojaAhVF3WMKHd09BtMQ6AEIWzAI#v=onepage&q=hitler%201922%20hell%20hews%20gallows&f=false

          https://www.phdn.org/archives/www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/statements.htm

        • LeftisruiningCanada says

          Mar 25, 2018 at 3:51 pm

          Funny, autocorrect changed mein into mien.

          Noodle Struggle!

      • Jan Aage Jeppesen says

        Mar 25, 2018 at 1:47 pm

        My reply explaining my position was deleted by the moderator. I got the impression that JW advocated free speech and open discussion. I see now that this is not the case, and will consequently not contribute with my views to site. They are not wanted.

        JW are in risk of becoming what you rightly accuse your opponents of, a closed circle of dogmatic thinkers not tolerating even the slightest deviation from established dogma.

        • Robert Spencer says

          Mar 25, 2018 at 2:46 pm

          In reality, nothing was deleted. The moderation thing is automated. I’ll find your comment and put it up. Calm down.

        • Jan Aage Jeppesen says

          Mar 25, 2018 at 4:23 pm

          Dear Robert Spencr,

          My comment was deleted, and the error is human because the automated moderation is controlled by an algorithm made by a man – a programmer.

          Could I ask you to change the algorithm controlling the automated moderation so my comments are shown without awaiting moderation, sometimes for a day?

          What have I done to deserve this special treatment?

          As to your comment:

          “In reality, Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf about the eradication of the Jews from Europe”, I disagree and ask you to document your claim with reference to page number and quoting the paragraph in which Hitler demanded eradication – meaning killing – the European Jews.

          The most belligerent statement about the Jews I could find in Mein Kampf reads:

          “Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”

          Mass extermination of Jews is not a defensive act but an act of aggressive warfare.

          From 1933 the aim of the defensive policy was to make the conditions for the German Jews so harsh and unbearable the Jews immigrated by themselves. Until 1941, it was Nazi policy to get Jews out of Germany and the territory under German control by emigration – at first voluntary and later forced. About 150,000 emigrated from Germany between 1933 and 1938, but this was considered too slow by radicals in the Nazi ranks. Adof Eichmann also used terror to encourage Jews to leave. Thus, with its ruthless bureaucratic efficiency to help, his system contributed to the forced emigration of over 50,000 Jews within five months. His bosses were so impressed, they set up offices in Berlin and Prague modelled on his system.

          By 1st of August 1938 Eichman was appointed to run the Jewish emigration office.

          First time Hitler talked about annihilation of the Jews was in a speech in parliament on 30th January 1939 warning he Jews of consequences of war:

          “If the international Jewish financiers in and outside Europe should succeed in plunging the nations once more into a world war, then the result will not be the Bolshevizing of the earth and thus a victory of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe!.”

          I rest my case.

  32. 762x51FMJ says

    Mar 24, 2018 at 11:28 am

    Problem with England is they never have had the right to life , liberty and pursuit of happiness.
    They also have no 1st Amendment to think or say what they want, and they have no 2nd Amendment right to protect themselves.
    This lack of freedom stunts the human brain and it becomes more susceptible to Islamic doctrine.

  33. Richard Courtemanche says

    Mar 24, 2018 at 12:00 pm

    Those “wigs” are too hot and affect judgement.

  34. Cheer Bear Girl says

    Mar 24, 2018 at 3:01 pm

    This UK judge’s ignorance is going to breed more dangerous jihadists.

  35. martin says

    Mar 24, 2018 at 6:38 pm

    Making a statement that is a blatant lie, shows a corrupt character, in that he obviously did not check before stating it.

  36. Ade Fegan says

    Mar 25, 2018 at 6:13 am

    this kind of ignorance must be stamped out

  37. sidney penny says

    Mar 25, 2018 at 8:36 am

    https://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/02/uk-judge-tells-jihad-murderers-of-soldier-that-they-betrayed-islam-they-start-screaming-allahu-akbar-and-fighting-prison-guards

    The are plenty of judges in UK who are also Imams.

    Here is Justice Imam Sweeney of the UK High Court.

    https://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/03/robert-spencer-and-michael-coren-on-uk-judge-saying-rigby-murder-a-betrayal-of-islam-the-arrest-of-moazzam-begg-and-more

  38. John Redman says

    May 25, 2018 at 7:34 am

    Sigh, You all cannot see the forest for the trees. Every “verse” cited PROOVES the judge correct as well as the lying-but-unintentional-truth-telling it’s-slime filth. The “peace” they claim to is the Peace Of The Grave. Now does it make sense? MLK Jr made reference to this, now didn’t he?

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