Recently at a meeting I was given a copy of a pamphlet from the Islamic apologist group Sound Vision; you can find the pamphlet online here. And here is why the pamphlet is false and misleading:
Abdul Malik Mujahid’s Sound Vision pamphlet, “Does God Really Command Muslims to Kill Non-Muslims?,” is full of inaccuracies, distortions, and outright falsehoods, to the extent that it appears designed to mislead non-Muslims about the root causes of Islamic jihad violence within Islamic texts and teachings.
Terrorists abroad and Islamophobes at home are busy abusing Islam while building on each other’s hate. Both groups claim that God commands Muslims to kill non-Muslims wherever they find them.
The fact, however, is that a Muslim will be punished in this world under the law for killing someone. S/he will also be banished to Hellfire by God in the afterlife unless s/he repents, reinstates his or her faith, and lives a life of good deeds (Quran 25:68-70).
In reality, Qur’an 25:68-70 warns Muslims not to kill the soul which Allah has forbidden to be killed”; it does not contain any blanket prohibition on killing someone. The Qur’an also tells Muslims to “kill them wherever you find them” (2:191); again, “kill them wherever you find them” (4:89); and “kill the polytheists wherever you find them” (9:5). So clearly killing is permitted, and indeed, commanded, under certain circumstances.
Many of our neighbors are confused by the persistent propaganda by Islamophobes that it is not terrorists but “Islam itself” that is the problem.
They quote the Quran out of context to achieve this goal. In reality, Islamophobes represent a $200 million dollar-plus hate industry, which promotes such bigoted misrepresentations and smears against Islam and Muslims. Islamophobes are also given multiple platforms and mediums to state this nonsense, as well as countless online venues.
This is sheer fantasy and propaganda. There is no “hate industry” of “Islamophobes.” Those who call attention to the jihad threat have far less money and resources than those who oppose them, and far less media access as well.
The result is that hate, anger, and fear are rising in our nation. Gun purchases, hate groups, and the number of armed militias are at an all-time high. President Barack Obama received 400% more death threats than former President George W. Bush did, according to the Secret Service. This is partially because he is assumed to be a secret Muslim born in Kenya.
What connection does this claim have to whether or not the Qur’an teaches violence? None.
The Missing context of the accusations
Prophet Muhammad was a very peaceful man. He never hurt anyone, much less killed anyone. He lived simply, consuming less and sharing more, despite being married to one of the richest person in Mecca. God’s Peace & Blessings be upon him.
In reality, according to early Islamic records, Muhammad several times ordered the murders of people who have insulted him. According to his first biographer, the eighth century Muslim Ibn Ishaq, these included Abu Afak, who was over one hundred years old, and the poetess Asma bint Marwan. Abu Afak was killed in his sleep, in response to Muhammad’s question, “Who will avenge me on this scoundrel?” Similarly, Muhammad on another occasion cried out, “Will no one rid me of this daughter of Marwan?” One of his followers, Umayr ibn Adi, went to her house that night, where he found her sleeping next to her children. The youngest, a nursing babe, was in her arms. But that didn’t stop Umayr from murdering her and the baby as well. Muhammad commended him: “You have done a great service to Allah and His Messenger, Umayr!” (Ibn Ishaq, 674-676)
Muhammad also ordered the murder of the poet Ka’b bin Al-Ashraf. Muhammad asked: “Who is willing to kill Ka’b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?” One of the Muslims, Muhammad bin Maslama answered, “O Allah’s Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?” When Muhammad said that he would, Muhammad bin Maslama said, “Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab).” Muhammad responded: “You may say it.” Muhammad bin Maslama duly lied to Ka’b, luring him into his trap, and murdered him. (Sahih Bukhari, volume 5, book 59, number 369)
Muhammad also personally beheaded the men of the Jewish Qurayzah tribe. “Then they [the Jewish Qurayzah tribe] surrendered, and the apostle [Muhammad] confined them in Medina in the quarter of d. al-Harith, a woman of B. Al-Najjar. Then the apostle went out to the market of Medina (which is still its market today) and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for them and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches. Among them was the enemy of Allah Huyayy b. Akhtab and Ka’b b. Asad their chief. There were 600 or 700 in all, though some put the figure as high as 800 or 900.” (Ibn Ishaq 690)
When the Muslims attacked the Jews at the Arabian oasis of Khaybar, a Jewish leader of Khaybar, Kinana bin al-Rabi, was brought before Muhammad; Kinana was supposed to have been entrusted with the treasure of one of the Jewish tribes of Arabia, the Banu Nadir. Kinana denied knowing where this treasure was, but Muhammad pressed him: “Do you know that if we find you have it I shall kill you?” Kinana said yes, that he did know that. Some of the treasure was found. To find the rest, Muhammad gave orders concerning Kinana: “Torture him until you extract what he has.” One of the Muslims built a fire on Kinana’s chest, but Kinana would not give up his secret. When he was at the point of death, one of the Muslims beheaded him. (Ibn Ishaq 511-515)
Pre-Islamic Arabia was caught up in a vicious cycle of war and revenge. Prophet Muhammad launched a non-violent peace movement in the early 7th century A.D., to end precisely the cycle of war, revenge, and terrorism we see today.
In reality, Muhammad’s movement was hardly non-violent, as shown above. He told the Quraysh, the pagan Arabs of Mecca who rejected his claim to be a prophet, “I bring you slaughter.” (Ibn Ishaq 131)
His vision was to bring humanity together with belief in One God and one humanity. He required a belief in all of the Prophets of God and revealed Scriptures. He wanted people to be forgiving and merciful to each other and all creatures on earth.
Contrast that claim with these statements of Muhammad, as reported in hadith (reports of Muhammad’s words and deeds) collections that Muslims consider authentic:
“I have been made victorious through terror.” (Sahih Bukhari 4:52.220)
“Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war…When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them…. If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them.” (Sahih Muslim 4294)
“I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah, and he who professed it was guaranteed the protection of his property and life on my behalf except for the right affairs rest with Allah.” (Sahih Muslim 30)
“May Allah curse the Jews and Christians for they built the places of worship at the graves of their Prophets.” (Sahih Bukhari 1.8.427)
Through a peaceful coalition of tribes he achieved victory by an ingenious campaign of non-violence. When he died in 632, he had brought peace to war-torn Arabia.
In reality, Muhammad subdued Arabia by force. Ibn Ishaq notes that “the apostle took part personally in twenty-seven…raids” (Ibn Ishaq 659-660).
He wanted to achieve all of that just by preaching, which he did for 13 years in Mecca. However, he and his followers were abused and tortured. He himself survived several assassination attempts. His surviving followers narrowly escaped extermination at the hands of the powerful tribal lords of Mecca.
In reality, a Muslim killed one of the Quraysh, beginning the hostilities between the two (Ibn Ishaq 118).
The Prophet’s response to this oppression was to find peace elsewhere. Upon his encouragement, a majority of Muslims migrated to a Christian land where a just king ruled across the Red Sea in Africa.
He himself found refuge and protection in a town almost 300 miles away. He declared that town a peace sanctuary where no one, not even a bird, can be hunted and no tree can be cut. It was a multi-tribal and multi-religious society.
For his peace sanctuary in the city of Madinah, the Prophet developed constitutional treaties with Muslims, Jews and other tribes of the town, declaring them together as “one people” with full freedom of religion, justice, and equality.
In reality, the Constitution of Medina is of doubtful authenticity: it is first mentioned only in Ibn Ishaq’s biography of Muhammad, which was written over 125 years after the accepted date for Muhammad’s death.
And unfortunately for Sound Vision, Ibn Ishaq also details what happened to three Jewish tribes of Arabia, the Banu Qurayzah, Banu Qaynuqa and Banu Nadir, after the Constitution of Medina. Muhammad exiled the Banu Qaynuqa and Banu Nadir, massacred the Banu Qurayza after they (understandably) made a pact with his enemies during the pagan Meccans’ siege of Medina, and then massacred the exiles at the Khaybar oasis, giving Muslims even today a bloodthirsty war chant: “Khaybar, Khaybar, O Jews, the army of Muhammad will return.”
Although Prophet Muhammad and his followers fled oppression in Mecca, they were not left to live peacefully in their peace sanctuary called Madinah. The Meccans, came attacking the nascent community.
The Right to self-defense in Islam
Due to the Prophet’s teachings of peace, Muslims did not want to fight back. This is where God chastises Muslims for their reluctance, for not defending their peace sanctuary, and commanded them to fight back. (Quran 2:216 & 4:75)
Discussing this verse out of context is like saying that the Bible calls for genocide. (1 Samuel 15:2-3)
Sound Vision is correct that jihad warfare was first revealed for defense, but fails to mention that offensive jihad is also commended. Ibn Ishaq explains the progression of Qur’anic revelation about warfare. First, he explains, Allah allowed Muslims to wage defensive warfare. But that was not Allah’s last word on the circumstances in which Muslims should fight. Ibn Ishaq explains offensive jihad by invoking a Qur’anic verse: “Then God sent down to him: ‘Fight them so that there be no more seduction,’ i.e. until no believer is seduced from his religion. ‘And the religion is God’s’, i.e. Until God alone is worshipped.” (Ibn Ishaq 314)
Supporting this is a Qur’an verse that Sound Vision doesn’t mention: “And fight them until there is no fitnah [mischief, disturbance, rebellion] and the religion, all of it, is for Allah.” (8:39)
Muslims did eventually abide by God’s command to defend their peace sanctuary. However, the total number of days involved in these defensive “wars” were six days. And the total number who died on both sides is less than 1,000.
Muslims were being physically attacked, tortured, harassed, and killed wherever they went. This is why God ordered them to engage in self-defense, saying, “Slay the enemies wherever you find them!” (Quran 4:89). Extremists like ISIS and Islamophobes selectively quote such verses without including God’s encouragement to peace, which almost always accompanies verses related to defensive fighting. Take the verse which immediately follows (Quran 4:89): “Thus, if they let you be, and do not make war on you, and offer you peace, God does not allow you to harm them.” (Quran 4:90)
The Tafsir al-Jalalayn, a mainstream Muslim commentary on the Qur’an, makes it clear that this refers only to unbelievers who submit to Islamic rule: “And so if they stay away from you and do not fight you, and offer you peace, reconciliation, that is, [if] they submit, then God does not allow you any way against them, [He does not allow you] a means to take them captive or to slay them.”
As Karen Armstrong has noted about the Quran:
…the only permissible war is one of self-defense. Muslims may not begin hostilities (2:190). Warfare is always evil, but sometimes you have to fight in order to avoid the kind of persecution that Mecca inflicted on the Muslims (2:191; 2:217). The Koran quotes the Torah, the Jewish scriptures, which permits people to retaliate eye for eye, tooth for tooth, but like the Gospels, the Koran suggests that it is meritorious to forgo revenge in a spirit of charity (5:45). Hostilities must be brought to an end as quickly as possible and must cease the minute the enemy sues for peace (2:192-3).
The Tafsir al-Jalalayn says that 2:190 was abrogated by Qur’an 9:1, which voids every treaty between the Muslims and nonbelievers. Also, Armstrong doesn’t mention that 2:193 tells Muslims: “Fight them until there is no fitnah and worship is for Allah.” Fitnah is persecution or unrest. Ibn Ishaq explains that this means that Muslims must fight against unbelievers “until God alone is worshipped.” Another Muslim commentator on the Qur’an, Maulana Bulandshahri agrees: “The worst of sins are Infidelity (Kufr) and Polytheism (shirk) which constitute rebellion against Allah, The Creator. To eradicate these, Muslims are required to wage war until there exists none of it in the world, and the only religion is that of Allah.” That amounts to a declaration of perpetual war against all non-Muslim religions.
This is the story of Jihad, a noble concept of Islam: to strive for a purposeful life toward higher ideals of peace and justice.
Jihad has been twisted, misunderstood, and misused at the hands of the thugs called ISIS and bigots called Islamophobes.
After the Prophet’s death, many Muslims unfortunately abandoned his peace movement. They adopted the ways of the world, fighting for land and power. They built empires like everyone else. Many commandments of God were violated.
However, the excesses of those empires pale in comparison with the horror inflicted by modern nation-states, which gave us World War I, II and the Holocaust. The death toll in the millions, the widespread destruction of infrastructure, and the attacks on civilians continue to this day, not for religious ends, but for secular, economic, and political ones.
In reality, jihad warfare proceeded according to commands of the Qur’an and Muhammad, as delineated here, and caused the deaths of many millions in the 1,400-year history of Islam.
Why ISIS & the terrorists?
Given this context, we must ask: Why do “Islamic extremists” engage in suicide bombings and the massacre of innocent civilians? Far from being endorsed by the Islamic faith, these crimes are categorically forbidden. Although Muslims have no Pope, almost all scholars of Islam have repeatedly condemned these crimes, which violate Islam’s teachings. The number one victim of this mayhem are actually Muslims themselves. To understand this cycle of war and terrorism, one needs to read the Pentagon-funded research of Dr. Robert Pape, whose empirical study of terrorism and suicide bombing concludes that this phenomenon is motivated by politics and not religion.
Analyst Jonathan Fine noted in the Middle East Quarterly in 2008: “Despite the revisionism advanced by Pape and others, the fact remains that most suicide bombings since 1980 in the world in general and in the Middle East in particular are sponsored by Islamist and not secular terrorist groups. Pape avoids this conclusion by gerrymandering his data so that he does not need to include the significant numbers of suicide bombings conducted by Sunnis against Shi’a in Iraq.”
Though terrorism perpetrated by Muslims receives a disproportionate amount of attention from politicians and reporters, the reality is that right-wing extremists pose a much greater threat to people in the United States than terrorists connected to ISIS or similar organizations. As UNC Professor Charles Kurzman and Duke Professor David Schanzer explained last June in the New York Times, Islam-inspired terror attacks “accounted for 50 fatalities over the past 13 and a half years.” Meanwhile, “right-wing extremists averaged 337 attacks per year in the decade after 9/11, causing a total of 254 fatalities.”
This claim is based on a discredited study. Back in June 2015, the New America Foundation published a study that purported to demonstrate that “right-wing extremists” and “white supremacists” were a larger threat to the U.S. than Islamic jihadis. The study was obviously skewed, as it was based on the number of those killed by jihadis and by right-wing extremists since September 12, 2001, leaving out 9/11. If it had started one day earlier, its results would have been markedly different.
The study also ignored the many, many foiled jihad plots, and the fact that jihadis are part of an international movement that has killed many thousands of people, while right-wingers and white supremacists are not.
In sum, this Sound Vision pamphlet is clearly designed to mislead, not enlighten or clarify.
dumbledoresarmy says
Mohammedans lie.
They are masters of sophistry, of the lie-by-omission, of the lie-by-doublespeak, the lie direct, the Big Lie, not to mention victim theatre, turnspeak, projection and reversal of reality. And also of what Harry Frankfurt called ‘Bullsh*t”, which is something else again from simple lying; Martha Gellhorn, when she encountered it amongst Muslims claiming to be ‘refugees’ from ‘Palestine’, called it “madhattery”… out and out nonsense and bizarrerie, having no connection to reality or history at all.. stuff that ultimately rots the brains of those who make a habit of thinking and, worse, living that way.
Wellington says
Seconded.
gravenimage says
All grimly true. And all too many hopeful Infidels are eager to swallow these lies.
underbec cat says
I agree, the rush of adrenaline caused by fear of the near accident, or terrorist report wears off, the mind suddenly realizes it is safe and the feelings of calm arrive. The cycle is continuous in Islam. The lies smooth the mind, calm the nerves….and bring the doubt, maybe I don’t have to worry maybe I have this wrong until the next awareness of the enemy gaining ground….in the mind. The environment of denial of the media, using words to distract are very dangerous, the MB cleverly works in all areas to try to relax the mind of the nervous distraught infidel who sees the terror and knows the root. The left works hard to cause divisiveness, one day we have a project for a wall. a protective shield, the next the left puts up road blocks, on day we feel secure the left and dems resist, distort and lie to prevent the Republicans from power undermining our security…attempting to break a frail border that has terrorist seeping thru. This pamphlet is a perfect example, a clever mind relaxing promotion to calm the mind and blind the public to the new mosque in town while a Prince works to numb the mind of our only hope. For me John Bolton and hopefully Stephen Coughlin, Robert Spencer , David Horowitz, John Guandolo, CFSP will soon follow along with many others and many thanks to ex-muslims who speak with the experience of living under deadly sharia law.
gravenimage says
Good analysis.
Save Europe says
Thirded.
Terry Gain says
Fourthed
Muslims are shameless liars and the world’s most adept propagandists. They excel at little else.
mortimer says
ALLAH DOESN’T WANT ALL MUSLIMS TO BE WARRIORS – They can conduct VERBAL JIHAD = TAQIYYA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If5gXh7uVIo
underbed cat says
Not all muslims have to fight jihad, but the jihad of the mind is another area the stay at home jihadist will fill. The illusion….and funding or base.
gravenimage says
True, underbed cat. All pious Muslims seek the imposition of Islamic law.
Muslim2018 says
The verse and the hypocrisy of you people. How did Christianity spread in most parts of the world today? How many were subjugated and killed long before prophet Muhammad peace be upon him came on the scene?
Chatillon says
Answer: Very few indeed.
Mark Swan says
Muslim2018—you read the Quran—not with some Imam helping—
you will not need him—you sit down and read it, for yourself.
Christians commit appalling acts—by not following what is in their Holy Book.
Muslims commit appalling acts by following what is in their Holy Book.
Yes seeing the Roman Empire using Christianity to control the masses—
thus came Islam—used to control the masses.
Read that Quran.
gravenimage says
Note that “Muslim2018” skirts the question with a bit of false tu quoque.
Questions for him: firstly, the above–in Islam, does Allah command Muslims to kill non-Muslims?
Then, is he himself in favor of slaughtering Infidels who do not submit to Islam? His coreligionist here Ibrahim itace muhammed certainly is.
And if he actually opposes the diktats of Islam and does not believe that murder of unbelievers is right–unlikely, of course–is he telling his fellow Muslims that–or just spreading Taqiyya here at Jihad Watch?
I await his answers to these questions with bated breath.
blitz2b says
Sound vision says “… blah blah campaign of non-violence. When he died in 632, he had brought peace to war-torn Arabia…”
Boy I can hardly wait for this Disney version of the life of Mohammed to hit the silver screens. Ben Afleck can play the heart warming, pedophile prophet.
Only Islamophobes will find it a hard pill to swallow, all other gullible leftists will hold hands and sing kumallah (Islamic version of kumbaya).
Lying and deceit come naturally and without a feeling of guilt to Muslims. I mean how can anyone in this age of information and transparency spin so much rubbish and serve them up as facts is astonishing. Yet we fin Muslims like this “Sounds Vision” doing exactly that….
It’s truly amazing that Muslims are able to sugar coat sh!t and serve it up for consumption to the willfully ignorant western civilization without any repercussions or even valid criticism from them.
kuriakose says
Exactly. Shit by any other name still stinks the same.
J D S says
In my opinion and hopefully not just mine…The Allah that Muslims worship or at least the one they think they worship is not the God of Abraham…….I have no idea what muhammad (if he ever actually existed) was smoking when he thought he was visited by a visitor from allah (unknown) and it might have been some allah or even Satan or nothing but smoke but one can bet their shirt that it was not the one true God the father of Jesus for that God would never, after the new Jesus covenant, require us to kill anyone for the reasons Muslims are using. They have been sucked into a vile form of worship that will only take them to the eternal LAKE OF FIRE. I know of no way to reach their hardened hearts except earnest prayer to the real God in Heaven.
gravenimage says
Does Allah really command Muslims to kill non-Muslims?
…………………………..
Yup. Many times, but Sura 9:5–the infamous “Sura of the Sword”–sums it up.
More:
Abdul Malik Mujahid’s Sound Vision pamphlet, “Does God Really Command Muslims to Kill Non-Muslims?,” is full of inaccuracies, distortions, and outright falsehoods, to the extent that it appears designed to mislead non-Muslims about the root causes of Islamic jihad violence within Islamic texts and teachings…
…………………………..
The grimly hilarious thing here is that Mujahid’s *own name* means one who wages violent Jihad. What a load of bald-faced Taqiyya.
Wellington says
Seconded.
underbed cat says
I missed the name part, Mujahid (one who wages violent jihad or war)..it’s very funny, but the also not, since the intended readers most likely will not get it, but an another clever irritation of his deception. Sort of like a grocery store girl at the check out counter name badge …Jihada…..and you notice you just have her a check and I.D.
harold says
Regarding studies comparing deaths from “right-wing” extremism compared to “terrorists connected to ISIS or similar organizations”. In the “right-wing” category, “lone wolf” attacks are included, which by definition s For Islamists violence, “lone wolf” attacks are not included. Secondly, the fatalities lumped in with “right wing” includes murders that having nothing to do with “right-wing” such as the murders of child molesters, murders committed by Left wing extremists such as the Austin IRS attacker, prison violence, etc.
gravenimage says
All true.
Wellington says
I would ask any apologist for Islam, whether Muslim or non-Muslim, this question (and with a follow-up query): Is criticism or mockery of Islam, the Koran or Mohammed permitted by Islamic law? If not, then how can anyone reconcile freedom with Islam?
Rezali Mehil says
Salam Wellington,
Why is there a need for criticism or mockery? How can you improve on perfection… People have cried after reading the Koran as it inspires them to the core of the soul, They simply cannot understand WHY you would WANT to mock …it beggers belief….
We are not like the kuffar… we don’t mock or judge God, we only have faith. You need to look inward and turn to Islam yourself after a few 5 time prayer sessions (on your knees boy) you will know why the gift of the Koran to mankind is possibly the best gift that will ever be given to mankind.
More Later ….
Rezali
Wellington says
The fact that you think the hate manual which is the Koran represents perfection says more than you realize.
But, irrespective of this, you still did not answer my question, to wit, if one DOES want to mock the Koran, Islam or Mohammed, does Islamic law allow for this?
No more dodges, Rezali. Straight answer.
epistemology says
As for mockery my favorite rabbi Walter Rothschild was born in Bradford and he was there when the Mohammedans rallied against Salman Rushdie’s book. The rally was so terrible they burned the book, so the the British were somewhat confused and the bishop of Bradford invited the representatives of all religions to his palace to talk about the affair.
The Mohammedan wanted to drag the rabbi to his side: You don’t make fun of holy things. The rabbi’s answer was: We’ve never done anything else.
But a Moron like Rezali doesn’t understand that. The Koran is one of the worst books ever written a curse for mankind.
Take care my friend always happy to read your lines have a good time
gravenimage says
The vile Rezali Mehil wrote:
Salam Wellington,
Why is there a need for criticism or mockery? How can you improve on perfection…
………………………….
The foul Rezali Mehil considers Muslims raping women and children, robbing Infidels, and mass slaughtering unbelievers to be “perfection”–*Ugh*.
More:
People have cried after reading the Koran as it inspires them to the core of the soul, They simply cannot understand WHY you would WANT to mock …it beggers belief….
………………………….
I’m rereading the vicious Qur’an for the fifth time now–about all it can “inspire” is despair or murderous savagery.
Some of us are decent people, and believe that such barbarism *should* be roundly mocked, exposed, and opposed.
More:
We are not like the kuffar… we don’t mock or judge God, we only have faith.
………………………….
Pious Muslims cannot judge the vicious “Allah”–they would have to ask themselves why a deity would sacralize pedophilia, slavery, and mass-butchering of innocent people–and they have no moral answer for that, so they have to threaten and murder people who *do* ask.
More:
You need to look inward and turn to Islam yourself after a few 5 time prayer sessions (on your knees boy) you will know why the gift of the Koran to mankind is possibly the best gift that will ever be given to mankind.
………………………….
No one can look inward for this unless they are a psychopath. Muslims have to ignore this savagery and pretend it does not exist, or else–far more common–revel in it.
Wellington is too intelligent to do the former, and too morally decent to do the latter.
Far from being a gift to mankind, Islam is a malicious bane.
Notice that Rezali Mehil completely sidesteps the question above, as to whether “Allah” commands Muslims to kill non-Muslims. We know it to be the case.
More:
More Later ….
………………………….
Yes–I’m sure Rezali Mehil will keep turning up like a bad penny…
CogitoErgoSum says
For Rezali:
Yes, my first contact with the Quran did indeed inspire me to the core of my soul. I was unsure before but after I knew that Satan does indeed exist. The Quran is a gift as great as the one given to Pandora. After seeing what was inside I looked for refuge elsewhere because God’s words were not to be found within the Quran. It was a sign to me. If Satan has a book, it is the Quran; if he has a religion, it is Islam. When I go to my knees in need of help rising, it is as a son to his father and not as a slave to his master.
gravenimage says
+1
Michael Copeland says
“This wretched book … I have been unable to discover in it one single idea of value.”
Arthur Schopenhauer
“So long as there is this book there will be no peace in the world.”
William E. Gladstone
“It’s a depressing book. It really is. It’s just the rantings of a schizophrenic. There is also the barrenness of the message. It has no ethical dimension.”
Sebastian Faulks
https://libertygb.org.uk/news/book-reviews-koran
gravenimage says
Good post, Michael.
TheBuffster says
“Why is there a need for criticism or mockery? How can you improve on perfection… People have cried after reading the Koran as it inspires them to the core of the soul, They simply cannot understand WHY you would WANT to mock …it beggers belief….”
Rezali, I have read the Quran and I found it to be an insult against the moral need to think and question, to critically examine any claims laid before me and to honestly dissent if I find those claims dubious or morally repellent.
The *method* of discourse in the Quran, right from the beginning, is offensive to any critical thinker who knows the difference between objective methods of reasoning and fallacious ones.
The Quran requires those of us who take reason and a strict honesty of mind seriously to dump those virtues and submit to the assertions of Muhammad without question. Muhammad claims that he is speaking Allah’s words and that we must accept those words on faith. Even if those words don’t make sense to us, we must accept that Muhammad is not a charlatan or deluded, but is what he claims to be, or else we’ll burn forever in hell.
Don’t you see how wrong that is, Rezali? That anyone cannot see this while reading the Quran – that is what, to me, beggars belief.
The Quran’s method is morally and intellectually atrocious. Even without any commands to wage jihad against unbelievers, the “peaceful” verses of the Quran are enough to repel a person of rational ethics and sound intellectual methods. It’s an assault against the honest and conscientious mind.
That is why the Quran is subject to criticism and mockery. Its method is anti-rational and condemns those who cannot be convinced by anti-rational means.
gravenimage says
Good post.
Savvy Kafir says
Well said, Buffster! Very nice!
Michael Copeland says
“When I have time, I must put it into German so that every man may see what a foul and shameful book it is.”
Martin Luther
https://libertygb.org.uk/news/book-reviews-koran
No Fear says
Everyone who disbelieves the Quran cries after reading it. They know that the Quran divides the world into the master religion and the untermensch.
jayell says
“Why is there a need for criticism or mockery?”
Criticism is an essential analytical intellectual process which is a normal product of human intelligence which, properly informed, should be practised regularly as a matter of course in order to correctly understand and evaluate our intellectual environment with a view to eradicating imperfections and weaknesses and achieving improvement. Mockery is the expression of a negative assessment.
“How can you improve on perfection…”
You will never appreciate perfection unless you have understood the factors involved in achieving perfection and, through exercise of one’s critical faculties, recognising those factors and elements that detract from it. Thus, by not exercising one’s critical faculties, one will not properly recognise perfection or know how to achieve it by eliminating imperfections.
“People have cried after reading the Koran as it inspires them to the core of the soul,”
That is as much a comment on these people’s souls or their levels of intellectual attainment or intelligence as it is on the Qu’ran. Some people will cry at literally anything or what whatev er reason.
“They simply cannot understand WHY you would WANT to mock …it beggers belief….”
People who cannot understand the reactions of others are seriously lacking awareness. Not good.
“We are not like the kuffar…” We know that, thank God!”
“we don’t mock or judge God, we only have faith.”
Yes, you probably never THINK.
“You need to look inward and turn to Islam yourself after a few 5 time prayer sessions (on your knees boy) you will know why the gift of the Koran to mankind is possibly the best gift that will ever be given to mankind.”
If ever I turn inward, Islam is nowhere in sight, thank God again. And I’ve already got a copy of the Qur’an. It wasn’t a gift an, having read most of it, would never ever have been a treasured gift. It certainly didn’t make me cry, it was too pompous, trivial and tedious and downright irrelevant to the intelligence for that.
“More Later ….”
Don ‘t bother.
gravenimage says
Great comments.
Chatillon says
Why is there a need for mockery of Islam? Because it is of Satan and Satan cannot abide mockery.
Have a nice day.
gravenimage says
🙂
Save Europe says
Spot on Wellington ?
DHazard says
“Torture him until you extract what he has.” One of the Muslims built a fire on Kinana’s chest, but Kinana would not give up his secret. When he was at the point of death, one of the Muslims beheaded him.” (Ibn Ishaq 511-515)
These are the unsanitized words of a greedy, violent, heartless man as well as the immediate compliance with his wishes by his followers.
How is this NOT what ISIS is doing? Not what Al Qaeda is doing? Where in the Quran does “Allah” say something like “don’t always emulate Muhammad, he gets a little too barbaric sometimes”? Where in the Quran does it say anything Muhammad wouldn’t want to hear (because he wrote it)?
A “moderate” Muslim is someone who believes parts of the Quran and very little of the Hadith, in other words they aren’t “true” Muslims. These are the Muslims paraded from one broadcast to another, in a well planned “show”. The target audiences for these farces are the Westerners who won’t bother to confirm the celebrity Muslim’s veracity, those Westerners who are already part of the choir, but mostly the numerous Muslims whom they are attempting to mollify. These kinds of Muslims are also perfect part players in the leftists media’s thinly veiled virtue signaling echo chambers of pretend debate. “Islam is peace”. The moderator nods in approval with a smug grin across his face. Stupid, stupid stupid.
gravenimage says
Good post.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Mr Spencer is still with his twisted and mischief interpretations of Islamic sources to promote his vanguard of hate against islam and Muslims. This is a chronic disease Mr Spencer is suffering from. He assumes the position of mujatahid (a learned Islamic scholar with ability to form an independant opinion from the sources) while hé could not even read and understand the arguments of the learned scholars.
Since this is thé way he wants go about It to achieve his goal of hate , there is nothing one can do to rescue him.
Wellington says
Hey, Ibrahim, how ya’ doin’, pal? Hope you’re enjoying a fine beer and BLT while reading this.
A couple of questions for you: Do you support harming or killing anyone who mocks Islam, Mohammed or the Koran and do you support the death penalty for a Muslim male (or house confinement for life for a female Muslim) who converts to another religion?
Your turn.
Buraq says
@ Ibrahim itace Muhamed
Hi Habibi! Another question for you to dodge – like all the others I have asked: When is it lawful for Muslims to kill infidels? Under what circumstances? Please quote Quranic sources or Sahih ahadith, or Reliance of the Traveller, or The Sirah. Thanx!
Save Europe says
I’d be more concerned with rescuing yourself from your ‘mental illness.’
Jack Diamond says
“He assumes the position of mujatahid (a learned Islamic scholar with ability to form an independant opinion from the sources) while hé could not even read and understand the arguments of the learned scholars.”
Independent reasoning is a closed door, the “Gates of Ijtihad” were closed after the first 400 years of Islam. And even if they were not closed, it would not apply to the matter of jihad. Why? Because Jihad is in the category of the Rights of Allah, hukm sahri. It is an obligation ( a communication from Allah) sent down by Allah to men, and therefore not subject to man’s opinion or independent reasoning. Did you not know that, O wise one?
Did you know that “the Qur’an is clear”?
“A Book whose verses are set clear.” s.11:1
“And we have set down on thee a Book making clear everything, as a guidance and mercy” s.16:89
“A Book whereof the verses are explained in detail.” 41:3
“We have made the Qur’an easy to understand” 54:17
“There are no secret meanings in the Qur’an {requiring an initiate scholar} that were taught to some people to the exclusion of others. Bukhari 1970, Islam Q&A
The Qur’an is clear. The Verse of the Sword is clear. s. 9:29 is clear. Kill and fight to kill in the Qur’an mean exactly that. Hate the disbelievers, even if they are your sons and brothers, is also clear.
Is there a “learned” meaning of Muhammad’s pact to destroy both the Meccans and the Jews (“blood blood, destruction destruction!” –Pact of Aqaba) different from the one that is CLEAR to anyone?
He was a murderer from the beginning….
gravenimage says
Lots of fine replies here.
gravenimage says
The appalling Ibrahim itace muhammed wrote:
Mr Spencer is still with his twisted and mischief interpretations of Islamic sources to promote his vanguard of hate against islam and Muslims. This is a chronic disease Mr Spencer is suffering from.
………………………….
Uh huh–how *dare* Infidels not want Muslims to rape and murder them? They must have a “chronic disease”…sarc/off
Notice that–as always–Ibrahim itace muhammed does not say what Robert Spencer has supposedly gotten wrong. And how can he?
It is not just obvious that the texts of Islam command Muslims to kill unbelievers, but Ibrahim itace muhammed *himself* has affirmed that Muslims have the right to kill any Infidels who have not submitted to Islam.
More:
He assumes the position of mujatahid (a learned Islamic scholar with ability to form an independant opinion from the sources) while hé could not even read and understand the arguments of the learned scholars.
………………………….
Again, he does not say what Spencer has supposedly gotten wrong–he is just saying that no Infidel has the right to criticize Islam.
Also–and this is a question I and others have asked many times, and Ibrahim itace muhammed has never seen fit to answer–if only those who read Classical Arabic can understand the Qur’an, does this inclued him? While quite a few Musims speak and some read modern Arabic, few read Classical Arabic. According to this argument, then, most Muslims have no idea what Islam is all about, likely including himself.
More:
Since this is thé way he wants go about It to achieve his goal of hate , there is nothing one can do to rescue him.
………………………….
This is, of course, intended as a threat. That “hate” is projection on his part.
gravenimage says
include
No Fear says
The Quran is hatespeech against those who refuse to obey the criminal Mohammed.
Anne says
This is not ‘Hate” , It’s ‘Exposure’!
Chatillon says
“Mr Spencer is still with his twisted and mischief interpretations of Islamic sources …”
Is this a partial reference to Q5:32? And if so, should we take it as a death threat fro you against Robert Spencer?
“He assumes the position of mujatahid (a learned Islamic scholar with ability to form an independant opinion from the sources) while hé could not even read and understand the arguments of the learned scholars.”
Really? So it takes a learned Mohammedan scholar to understand what the translation of the Qur’an says? Isn’t the Qur’an supposed to be easy to understand, as the Qur’an itself claims in Q54:17?
Your religion is very fishy.
gravenimage says
+1
paul budrunas says
Having read the Quran and some Hadiths, I recognize Islam’s b*** s*** immediately…Taqiyya is rampant!
These thugs need to be killed before they kill us…
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
Mohammadan and their apologists will abuse the word “Islamophobe” so much that it will come to mean nothing at all and people will laugh at them for using it. I look forward to that day.
Save Europe says
It appears to be getting closer, albeit, infuriatingly all too slowly for my liking.
abad says
I know I have said this here before and it is worth repeating:
Moslems are not the best source to learn about Islam from.
dsinc says
Yes, ex-Muslims are who one speaks to to get the truth.
Peter Buckley says
Thanks to the Internet, muslims and non-muslims alike can now read online the first biography of Muhammad, by the devout muslim Ibn Ishaq:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Ishaq
If you read the biography, you will understand why so-called “extremists” do what they do (they are copying Muhammad), and why so many muslims are leaving Islam now they are finding out the truth.
Muhammad orders his son-in-law Ali, to behead Al-Nadr bin al-Harith on page 136.
Muhammad says that those who follow him will be given paradise; those who refuse will be slaughtered and sent to hell on page 222
Muhammad approves the stabbing of Uqba bin Abu Muayt on page 308.
Muhammad arranges the beheading of Kab bin al-Ashraf on page 364-9.
Muhammad personally beheads over 600 Jewish prisoners of war on page 464
Muhammad orders the torturing of treasurer of Khaybar tribe, Kinana on page 515
Muhammad orders the killing of Abdullah bin Katal’s and one of his singing-girls on page 550-1
Muhammad approves the murder of Asma bint Marwan on page 675-6.
Muhammad arranges the assassination of the old man Abu Afak on page 675.
Muhammad approves the murder of an old one-eyed Bedouin man, by Amr bin Umayya, one of his Jihadist thugs on page 674-5.
https://www.justislam.co.uk/images/Ibn%20Ishaq%20-%20Sirat%20Rasul%20Allah.pdf
The Internet is destroying Islam.
gravenimage says
+1
Anne says
Mohammed was a man of his time. A Warlord’ ! If violent verses are in the Quran , and they are , Then acknowlage it ! In Jesus’s time , when he walked the earth , he spoke no violence to anyone ,. Believe or don’t believe. We have free will . No religion is worth anything if someone is holding a gun to your head or a knife at your throat ! Islam behaves like the Mafia , making offers that you cannot refuse ! Which would be funny if it weren’t to damn tragic ..
gravenimage says
Both Jesus and Muhammed lived during violent times. Jesus was peaceful, and Muhammed was *more* violent than the worst people of his era.
Compare and contrast…
Diane Harvey says
“And here is why the pamphlet is false and misleading”
Muslim lying explained,
http://raymondibrahim.com/2014/04/12/taqiyya-about-taqiyya/
HugoHackenbush says
Mr. Spencer. Glad to see your use of Ibn Ishaq. If someone had only ONE Islamic source from which to judge Islam, this would be the source. Read it cover-to-cover including the footnotes by Tabari. According to Ishaq the trouble starts even before Muhammad was born: Page 94: Ibnu’l-Hayyaban came from Syria to Mecca in order the hope of seeing the “…emergence of a prophet whose time was at hand” and was a Jewish soothsayer. He predicts the coming of Muhammad by noting the following: “His time has come, and don’t let anyone get to him before you, O Jews; for he will be sent to shed blood and to take captive the women and children of those who oppose him. Let not that keep you back from him”.
OP says
“Many of our neighbors are confused by the persistent propaganda by Islamophobes that it is not terrorists but “Islam itself” that is the problem.”
Well, that’s very good news because it means they are actually paying attention behind the scenes and starting to question.
Granddaddy says
“Does God Really Command Muslims to Kill Non-Muslims?”
Even the title is misleading. The “god” of Islam is not the God the Christians and Jews. God does not command Muslims to kill non-Muslims, Allah does. Three times: 2:191, 4:89, 9:5. That’s if you ignore 4:91, in which case it’s four times.
And then there’s 5:33, “The only punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is that they should be murdered, or crucified, or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides”.
And then there’s 3:150, “We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the Fire. And evil is the abode of the wrong-doers.”
“Wrong-doers”, in case you don’t know, is code for anyone who is not a Muslim. We are also “the unjust”, “the transgressors”, and “those who became infidels”, these particular phrases being repeated in the Quran over 400 times.
So as far as Allah is concerned, anyone who isn’t a Muslim is a “wrong-doer” and is at war with Islam and deserves to be killed.
This is not counting all the hatred and slander of Jews and Christians and anyone who is not a Muslim, the subjugation of women, the lies about Jesus, Abraham, Moses, Mary, etc, etc. And then there’s the “abrogation” (13:39 and 2:106) and Allah’s boast of being the best of deceivers (3:52).
The Quran doesn’t just establish religious deceit, it practices it.
All of which anyone can confirm by downloading for free The Holy Quran by Maulana Muhammad Ali, The Noble Quran by Dr. Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din Al-Hilali, Ph.D. & Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan, The Glorious Quran by Dr. Shehnaz Shaikh M.B.B.S., M.D. and Ms. Kausar Khatri B.Com., B.Ed. And many others.
What puzzles me is why so few people seem to think it’s too much of a bother to read the holy scriptures of a people who say again and again that they are Muslim and we are not, and that they hate us and wants us dead and have demonstrated it now with over 32,000 terrorist attacks around the world and 50,000+ deaths since 9/11. Or some people (non-Muslims) even think they can just go to the Muslims and ask them for the truth, like that’s not a conflict of interest. What are people thinking? That it’s going to go away? That it’s not going to come here like it is in Europe? Has it gone away? Ever? Has the world forgotten how to think?
Here’s the truth: This pamphlet is for people who want to be ignorant slaves.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Buraq, It good that you asked :what are the circumstances under which muslims could kill non Muslims ? Note :individual Muslims are not allowed to kill non-muslims, which means anarchy ? killings can only take take place at battle front between muslim forces and non muslim hostile forces where jîhad fighting is resorting to, in which case even muslims could be killed by non muslim combatants on the process. Another way is where a non muslim is tried and found guilty for treachery as It happened to Jews in madina who breached thé treaty of togetherness they signed by aiding pagan meccans with intelligence.
Save Europe says
Glad to see you openly endorse savage butchery. I’d expect nothing less from you, though.
CogitoErgoSum says
Ibrahim;
Could you explain Quran 9:5 to the terrorists? They seem to take it at face value. I too am confused. If you ambush and slay the idolators first, how can they repent and pay the poor-rate?
“So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters WHEREVER YOU FIND THEM, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them.” – Quran 9:5
Allah is defeated says
You are a liar. Plain and simple.
Allah is defeated says
My mistake. The muslim is the liar. Not “Cognito”. My apologies.
CogitoErgoSum says
I understand. No problem. 🙂
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Cogitoergosum, ï think i explained this in my previous detailed comments that permission was given to muslims to fight pagan meccan fighters for breaching of truce of Hudaibiyya whereever they were even at haram (sacred site where fighting was prohibited) and it applies to any jihad fighting at all times. The question of ambush Will not arise.
CogitoErgoSum says
The wiring in your brain is completely different from mine, Ibrahim. I don’t understand what you are saying. Allah says to ambush the idol worshipers wherever you find them. I don’t see any other restrictions on that except that the survivors may be spared if they repent and pay a tax. Terrorist attacks have all been ambush attacks. The terrorists understand the Quran and will be glad to teach it to you if they ever take over the area where you live. You had better hope they don’t because they will be happy to re-wire your brain for you.
gravenimage says
Muslims ambush Infidels all the time. The foul “Prophet” Muhammed regularly did this.
Granddaddy says
You just prove my point.
Keys says
Itace, it is good you patronizingly explained to Buraq that “killings can only take take place at battle front”, which is Dar al Harb – the house of war, the house of the kafir, the non-muslim world.
Anyone not of Dar al Islam is at the battle front, is that correct ?
That seems simply clear to me; not requiring explication, rationalization, and bullshitting.
gravenimage says
Yep.
Allah is defeated says
You are a muslim. You are a liar.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Holy spirit (Satan) defeated, your whole life is a lie because your worship the Satan in yahweh and his wife Ashera hero gods the father of lies.
Keys says
Questions, itace:
Who is more likely to be Satan ?
He who claims to be the greatest deceiver, or
He who claims to be the God of truth ?
He who claims to love death for his sake, or
He who claims to be the God of life ?
He who claims that some of his creation is filthy, or
He who claims all His creation is good?
Hunh ?
gravenimage says
Not only is what Ibrahim itace muhammed admits to appalling–bloody Jihad conquest and persecution of Infidels under brutal and unjust Shari’ah law–but it also contradicts what he has said previously, where he has several times affirmed that Muslims have the right to slaughter any Infidels who do not submit to Islam.
blitz2b says
Ibrahim Mohammed Itace says “…individual Muslims are not allowed to kill non-muslims, which means anarchy ? …”
[9.29] “…Fight ( Qatlo… Literally ” fight to kill) those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, ..”
Fighting here is solely for the purpose of disbelief…. This itself should utterly destroy your apologetic argument…. but who knows… Leave it up to creative Muslim thinking and a warmongering criminal becomes the apple of the eyes of almost two billion lost souls….. Pathetic what brainwashing can do to otherwise sane folks.
gravenimage says
Ibrahim itace muhammed has himself contradicted his claims above.
Wang Wei Lin says
Also see Umdat Al-Salik, the Islamic manual of jurisprudence. Section O9 is the comprehensive law on Jihad. While this section mentions the greater jihad of self-discipline it is almost exclusively about the lesser jihad of offense action against infidels.
Terry Gain says
God would never choose a murderer, mass murderer, slave-taker, sex slave-taker, sex maniac, rapist, pedophile, misogynist and deceiver as His Prophet. Ergo Allah is not God.
End of story.
gravenimage says
+1
tim gallagher says
God could be an evil, nasty, torturing bastard, Terry and gravenimage. That’s what the Muslim (or rather, Muhammad’s) version of god is. It’s possible. As a Christian, I believe in the loving, gentle Christian God. So I do agree with you that the true Christian God could never choose such a vile, murderous, paedophile low life as Muhammad seems to have been as his prophet. Saleem Smith often posts that passage from a group of apostates from Islam which sums it up perfectly. It says a prophet of God has to be a noble type of person, yet Muhammad is an extremely evil person, etc. Muhammad isn’t even up to average standards for a human being. I remember someone on Jihad Watch (can’t recall who it was) talking about this evil, violent version of god that Muslims have and saying, well, “f**k god then” if it is that version of god. Which is exactly what I’ve often thought. It was a couple of months back when I read the comment. Surely God has to be noble enough to deserve to have humanity follow and serve him. The types of things Allah calls on his followers to do are revolting. So, I agree with what you have written above.. But I guess , theoretically, God could be a terrible being rather than a good and loving one. I don’t believe it but I guess it’s possible.
gravenimage says
Yes, Tim–the “mad god” theory of the universe.
Even if I believed that “Allah” really were god–and, thank goodness, I *do not*–I would *still* have to stand against such horrors as pedophilia, the rape of Infidels, and the brutal mass slaughter of innocent people. It would make taking such a stance terrifying; still, no moral person could do anything else.
I have said this here before.
tim gallaagher says
gravenimage, it might have been you who made the “f**k god” comment if god is evil Allah or maybe it was someone else. At any rate, I, and pretty much everyone who comments here, can find nothing good and no high ideals or golden rule in Islam. I just find Islam endlessly evil and barbaric. I can’t find any redeeming features in it. As you say above, “no moral person” could follow such obvious evil.
PRCS says
That ‘no moral person could follow such obvious evil” depends upon the definition of moral.
There’s no universal definition or understanding of morality.
Throwing homosexuals off tall buildings in some Muslim countries as an example.
tim gallagher says
I guess what you say is true, PRCS. You have to have a very skewed sense of morality to do lots of the things that Islam approves of and praises. To my mind, it’s about civilised societies and moral systems versus barbaric societies and their hideous moral systems.. You could say Islam is just totally immoral and evil by the standards of civilised societies. I think of it as a case of Islam seeming to have a totally upside down morality. Islam carries out and praises many things that almost all people in civilised societies would call evil. Islam sees such things as good. Things like calling for non-Muslims to be murdered, underage marriages, female genital mutilation, stoning adulterers to death, executing homosexuals, killing apostates who leave Islam and on and on the list goes. And, probably, things that would be seen as good in civilised societies, love, kindness, etc., are seen as bad qualities in Islamic societies. At least, that’s the way it seems to be to me.
gravenimage says
Good posts, Tim and PRCS.
Tim, it was another poster you quoted–but in this context, I take their point.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Tim, how loving is your pagan mithraist Godman commanding you to kill all those living with exception of small girls Who did not expérience sex to be kept as slaves, which mithraist churchmen carried out during crusade wars and today having anus and vaginal sex with Kids ?
tim gallagher says
Sorry, Ibrahim, I have no idea what you are talking about, but I do know how evil all the calls for Muslims to kill all non-Muslims (non-believers), how evil marrying and having sex with underage girls is which is approved of by Islam, how evil raping non-Muslim women is, which Islam approves of, and so on. I think most people can see the evil in Islam. Islam approves of and praises all sorts of evil behaviour. I don’t believe most other religions do that. That’s really all there is to it. I believe you’re on the wrong path by following a religion which approves of such evil attitudes towards non-Muslims and such evil acts. As a non-Muslim. I see Islam as an enemy and a danger to all my fellow non-Muslims. I understand that your life might be in danger if you leave Islam, (and how pathetic is that death sentence for apostates which no other religion has), but otherwise you should leave. There’s a better life out there. That’s all I’ve got to say to you or any other Muslim.
gravenimage says
Ibrahim itace muhammed has made the bizarre claim before that the Bible instructs Christian churchmen to rape children. Of course, there are no such verses. That does not stop this Mohammedan from constantly claiming that there are, though.
tim gallagher says
gravenimage, when the commenters on Islam, whether here or elsewhere, quote the Koran as calling for Muslims to kill non-Muslims, etc., the quotes are actually in the Koran. It’s the truth. But the things Ibrahim is claiming are in the Bible simply don’t exist as you say. It must be some rubbish which someone has told him is in the Bible or something, but he hasn’t bothered to check whether it’s true or just something his fevered imagination, full of raging hatred for non-Muslims, has come up with. It makes you wonder whether some Muslims are getting around believing the Bible is full of the same sort of evil as is found in the Koran. Maybe it’s some type of propaganda they are being fed. All total rubbish, of course. As you said, that sort of stuff just isn’t in the Bible.
gravenimage says
Exactly, Tim.
Ren says
I can not stand the deception and the stupidity of the muslims anymore.
Larry Singleton says
I’ve been trying for years to get people to read:
The Call to Jihad (Fighting for Allah’s Cause) in the Qur’an by Sheikh Abdullâh bin Muhammad bin Humaid. And yes,”(Fighting for Allah’s Cause)” is in the title. And “(Holy Fighting for Allah’s Cause)” is in the title of the nine volumes editions. (I had two links to this article that no longer work. In any case, Google it. It should be easy to find. Also check out the publisher Dar-us-Salam and sinister general manager of “Sound Vision” Abdul Malik Mujahid who personally plugs this article.)
I usually post this along with:
If you want an example of genuine Muslim “Interfaith” and counter the claims that Muslims “promote peace and tolerance” with those outside the Muslim Community, and the their claim that “radicals pervert the Koran through omission and false interpretation” read the following:
The 4th Conference of the Academy of Islamic Research: Arab Theologians on Jews and Israel. Sept. 1968. Translated by D.F. Green/David G. Littman. (Support Secure Freedom) Front to back; 95 pages of outrageous lies, inversion and vile Jew-Hatred. I’ve read this whole thing. I invite you to find any comparison with Jewish, Christian or Buddhist “Conferences” or similar events. See the Declaration of War titled “Resolutions and Recommendations” on page 73. I use Sheikh Humaid’s article on jihad, and it’s place as an “Introduction” in my Summarized Bukhari as “Exhibit A” when it comes to refuting the “religion of peace” claim. “The 4th Conference…” could easily be Exhibit B.
https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Arab-Theologians-on-Jews-and-Israel-4th_Ed_082011.pdf
The above are excerpts from a “Questions for Muslims” letter I wrote a while back.
For the life of me I can’t understand why I don’t see more mention of this sinister Abdul Malik Mujahid who is owner of Sound Vision AND “general manager” of Darussalam Publishers who put out this Bukhari and personally plugs this jihad article along with the nine volume Bukhari and a Koran which also have this jihad article I found in my Bukhari. This is THE perfect example of how this “religion of peace” is just a bunch of bull.
Larry Singleton says
I like to throw these in their face:
Jihad Essays 1-8-18
Jihad: The Holy War of Islam and Its Legitimacy in the Qur’an by Ayatullah Morteza Mutahhari.
Jihad in Islam” by Abul A’La Maududi.
The Call to Jihad (Fighting for Allah’s Cause) in the Qur’an by Sheikh Abdullâh bin Muhammad bin Humaid. And yes,”(Fighting for Allah’s Cause)” is in the title. Found in both my Summarized and nine volume Sahih Al-Bukharis.
Jihad is the Way by Mustafa Mashur.
Jihad in the Cause of God by Sayyid Qutb.
Kitāb al-Jihād by Abdullah Ibn Al-Mubarak. (Abd Allah Ibn al-Mubarak)
Jihad: The Forgotten Obligation by Muhammad Abdus Salam Faraj
Bill Warner, PhD: Jihad vs Crusades
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_To-cV94Bo
gravenimage says
Thanks for the links, Larry.
Allah is defeated says
Allah is Satan. So, yeah.
mortimer says
SOME OF JIHAD IS MILITARY, but most of jihad is deception and dirty tricks. The motive of jihad is to HATE THE DIRTY KUFAAR ‘for the sake of Allah’.
Allah gave Mohammed and his tribe the motive of hating the kafirs so that they would feel inspired to fight them, enslave them and then establish a theocratic empire over them. The kafirs have it coming to them.
Allah’s utopian Islamic society is created through the conquest and ENSLAVEMENT of the ‘wrong-worshippers’ by Muslims. Muslims are bounty hunters for Allah. They round up the rebels and impose Sharia law on them…Allah’s law code.
Muslims do not have to use VIOLENCE if the can use PSYCHOLOGICAL TRICKS to enslave the DIRTY KUFAAR.
tim gallagher says
Well, I must be a complete simpleton. I take things at face value. When I read Koran 9;5, “Kill the non-believers wherever you find them and lay in wait to ambush them” and the many other such passages in the Koran calling for Muslims to kill all non-believers, all non-Muslims, I think it means exactly what it says. It’s pretty straightforward. Then you get these slimy liars saying no Islam doesn’t call for violence, etc., I don’t believe them for a second. They can only be aiming their lies at idiots or extremely lazy people who’ve never investigated what is in the evil Koran. But then, even if you don’t know the vile calls for violence in the Koran, you judge Muslims by their actions. They are always murdering non-Muslims in terrorist attacks. So, it’s bloody obvious they aim the murder non-Muslims and it’s always done in the name of Allah. I just can’t believe the bald-faced lies these people tell.
infidel says
I HAVE SAID IT B4 and repeating it: THE ISLAMIC UNCERTAINTY PRINCIPLE. They can behave like mods and extremists at the same time and constantly duck and dodge and weave through serial lying and cheating those who are not familiar wit their vile ways…. If U think that they are mod, they will immediately (mis)use ur ignorance of their true intentions and see how much they can get by thru pushing the envelope by resorting to Jehaadi behavior. And the more tolerant and forgiving U are, the more virulent they become. However, the moment U see red and have had enough and call them out, they revert to that gentle mod. play the victim, accuse U of Ialamophobia and make U look foolish. Extremely cunning!!!
dumbledoresarmy says
Muslims are masters of goodcop/ badcop, messing with our heads.
As you say, one particular Muslim will do it, switching personalities, so to speak, according to circumstances. It’s no different from the tactics used by domestic Abusers and pimps; seesaw back and forth between Nice and Nasty, to keep their victim off-balance and confused.
The Ummah also does it as a gestalt. So one part of the ummah, say, Islamic State, or Hamas, does something utterly atrocious; then spin-doctors like this particular bloke come along and say “that’s not the real ISlam”, and pour out a mass of meaningless verbiage and doublespeak. But all they are doing is.. covering up for the jihad.
Someone here at jihadwatch, some years ago, declared that Islam was “thuggery plus image management”.
Islamic State, or Hamas, or Hezbollah, or Boko Haram, or Al Shabaab, or the Taliban, or Lashar-e-Toiba, or any number of others, or just some individual mohammedan who decides to Go Jihad, engages in murderous thuggery.
Then along come the smiling apologists pouring forth empty nothings, like this bloke with his pamphlet. That’s the ‘image management’.
Keys says
Yep, they can be duplicitous dupers and use their sacred texts to prove whatever is needed to make Islam supreme in the land.
gravenimage says
All true.
Robert says
This Type of Dialogue
Is to Fool
Non Believers
FYI says
The islamic koranic allah most certainly commands his followers to murder infidels..
“Slay the unbelievers wherever ye find them”
koran 2:191
This command to commit intentional homicide is also a violation of God’s 2 Chief commandments in that 1.God’s 6th commandment is violated {…if you break God’s laws that translates to a lack of love for God..}and 2.murdering people simply for being non-muslim is clearly at odds with the “love thy neighbour” command of God{something of course that allah completely missed didn’t he?}Why should non-believers be murdered at all?that is morally wrong and without any justification.
The Judeo-Christian Biblical on the other hand{The God of Moses ,Jesus Christ etc} prohibits intentional homicide in a law that muslims don’t appear to know,follow or understand called.. the Sixth Commandment.
But then the koranic allah,the antichristian,antiSemitic{k 9:3}god of islam…doesn’t agree with ANY of God’s actual commandments.In fact,allah tells muslims that they are free to break God’s Commandments in relation to their dealings with “infidels”.This is something that attracts the idiot convert:the mistaken belief that they are suddenly permitted to commit murder,treason etc and not only get away with breaking God’s commandments ,but allah will reward them in paradise for their evil…as long as they put on a great show of outward religious devotion.That is NOT how God works!
If you break His Commandments,you sin against God and we see in the koran allah tells muslims its OK
to do so(.. when it is not OK to do so!)
allah’s commandment-of-God vioaltions
Murder of infidels sanctioned k2;191
Adultery with enslaved women permitted k33:50,k4:24, “What the right hand possesses”
Stealing from infidels k48:20{and jizya tax k9:29 or STEALING from infidels via threats}
Bearing false witness is permitted…taqqiya,tawrita,kitman,muruna..
Compare God’s Biblical Laws with allah’s koranic commands:no matter what you read in the Bible it is ALWAYS understood that the Commandments must be obeyed and must not be twisted.
That is not the case in allah’s koran!
Oh ..and the most important laws of God the 2 Chief Commandments {found in Judaism and Christianity} are,of course, COMPLETELY MISSING in islam and its “perfect” koran
Reference for muslims:For you to learn(they are called the Commandments:please note that your allah does not himself agree with them….can you see the enormous problem with that??)
EXODUS 20 :1-17
DEUTERONOMY 5:7-21
duh swami says
Allah commands nothing,,,Allah does not exist in reality….What does exist, is the book of Gabriel, edited by Uthman…It tells Muslims to kill non believers…
It’s all scam and delusion,,,Bottom line,,,Never trust anyone who believes Allah is God…
PRCS says
Never trust anyone who believes Allah exists.
Wellington says
Indisputable point for all those who have regularly serviced their built-in crap detector they were born with. Unfortunately, many have not, including ALL Muslims and a shitload of non-Muslims too.
PRCS says
Yes.
MikeyParks says
A few years back when drawings of Mohammed were available, I looked through about 100 historic representations of him. In every case, he was holding a scimitar. Try to find a drawing of Christ with a sword in his hand.
gravenimage says
+1
Learning islam says
In terms of religion, hate speech is generally considered as speech that offends, threatens, or insults particular religions. Translation of the Koran certainly falls within these parameters, and I would hope that this particular Koran is no longer being distributed
“If you remove all the vile content (rape, sodomy, beheadings, honor killings, pedophilia, polygamy, wife beating, FMG and a host of other atrocities ) from the Qur’an you will be reduced to a three page pamphlet.”
Robin Datta says
There were many Qureish deities. Allah had the attribution of father to three (Laat, Uzza and Manat) of them. None of them (Allah included) have any connection with the Divine of Abraham and Meses.
TKF says
If you have to keep denying your religion is an abomination in every way, over and over ad nauseam, then guess what? You are in denial.
gravenimage says
Yep.
orz says
So you cite Ibn Ishaq for all of your claims, some 17 times in this article…. then when it is cited by the person you are trying to disprove you say it is of questionable authority.
This lack of logic and consistency is ruining the chances of getting anyone but the severely uneducated and illiterate following the anti-jihad movement.
Robert Spencer says
In reality, I’ve noted that some Muslims claim that Ibn Ishaq is of questionable authority, but have also noted that he is virtually our only source for Muhammad’s life; every biography of Muhammad ever written has depended upon Ibn Ishaq. A separate question is whether Ibn Ishaq has any historical value. The answer to that is no, as I explain in my book “Did Muhammad Exist?.” So he is useful as a source for finding out what Muslims believe about Muhammad, but not for information about the historical Muhammad, if there was one. I challenge you to produce evidence of my supposed “inconsistency,” and know that in the face of that challenge, you will disappear, like all those whom I challenge to prove their claims that I “lie” and publish “inaccurate” information.
gravenimage says
Fine rejoinder.
orz says
Nowhere did I state that you have lied or been inaccurate. What a terrible straw man argument you have created. My comment called out your logical inconsistency. You either believe Ibn Ishaq is a reliable source or you do not. In this article you use it when it suits you, implying it is an authentic and reliable source, and also discredit its authenticity when it suits you. You have very clearly developed some form of mental illness in recent years which blinds you from seeing your own hypocrisy. I look forward to your response, but please don’t make a fool of yourself and try to pull a straw man again. I saw right through that as any intelligent person (i.e. not your readers) will.
gravenimage says
orz wrote:
Nowhere did I state that you have lied or been inaccurate. What a terrible straw man argument you have created. My comment called out your logical inconsistency. You either believe Ibn Ishaq is a reliable source or you do not.
……………………………..
What rot. What Robert Spencer has noted is that *virtually every Muslim* believes Ibn Ishaq to be reliable.
In fact, most of the disclaimers from Muslims regarding this source are not aimed at other Muslims, but at Infidels who cite uncomfortable aspects of the “Prophet’s” character.
More:
In this article you use it when it suits you, implying it is an authentic and reliable source, and also discredit its authenticity when it suits you. You have very clearly developed some form of mental illness in recent years which blinds you from seeing your own hypocrisy.
……………………………..
What claptrap. In fact, Spencer has been entirely logical and consistent here.
More:
I look forward to your response, but please don’t make a fool of yourself and try to pull a straw man again. I saw right through that as any intelligent person (i.e. not your readers) will.
……………………………..
And here orz reveals his aim–to discredit not just Robert Spencer, but the very idea that Jihad exists in Islam and that it presents a threat to us.
Like so many Muslim apologists, he hopes that if he can–plausibly or implausibly–cast any doubt on Spencer’s scholarship that this–somehow–invalidates any concerns about the horrors of Islam, including its clear calls to kill non-Muslims, and the fact that pious Muslims act on these diktats all the time. *Ugh*.
Learning islam says
The 72 Virgins notion has its origins in the Qur’an. Although the holy book does not specify the number as 72, it does say that those who fight in the way of Allah and are killed will be given a great reward. It goes on to stipulate that Muslims will be rewarded with women in the Islamic heaven. It even describes their physical attributes—large eyes (Q 56:22) and big, firm, round “swelling breasts” that are not inclined to sagging (Q 78:33). The Qur’an refers to these virgins as houri, companions of equal age, but the highly-flavored emphasis of their bodily characteristics, including their virginity, gave rise to many hadiths and other Islamic writings.
Not only are the many ahadith where 72 virgins are mentioned. a fatwa by one of the Islamic world’s leading scholars of the subject concludes that these ahadith about the 72 virgins are “good” and may be relied on
“Sunan Abi Dawud Book of Jihad, intercession of the martyr, hadith 2522 ‘the martyr can intercede for seventy members of his family.’ This hadith has been classified as good by al-Suyuti, who records it in his hadith compilation..and by al-Albani.” –source Islamtoday.net
“It was reported in the hadeeth of al-Miqdaam ibn Ma’di Karb that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:
“The martyr (shaheed) has seven blessings from Allaah:
• he is forgiven from the moment his blood is first shed;
• he will be shown his place in Paradise;
• he will be spared the trial of the grave;
• and he will be secure on the Day of the Greatest Terror (the Day of Judgement);
• there will be placed on his head a crown of dignity, one ruby of which is better than this world and all that is in it;
• he will be married to seventy-two of al-hoor al-‘iyn;
• and he will be permitted to intercede for seventy of his relatives.”
—https://islamqa.info/en/8511, –Islam Q&A
Fruit ,Flesh of fowls (Will eat birds) they desire
About the Paradise-guaranteed intercession by a shaheed for 70 of his/her relatives, I doubt I could even name 70 of my relatives who are not yet dead. Is there any restriction on the degree of relationship for this benefit? Can a third cousin be included? And since, according to Islamic doctrine, all humans are descended from the same ur-parents Aadam and Hawa, can anybody at all be included? (Then why say “relatives”? To exclude extraterrestrials?)
….the “Messenger of Allah,” “He has said: (nothing is dearer to Allah than tears which are shed out of fear of him and blood which is shed for his sake).”
(Rendition of hadith cited by Ibn al-Qayyim, in, Zad Al-Ma’ad, Provisions for The Afterlife Which Lie Within Prophetic Guidance, P. 289.)
………………………………………………………………..
http://www.debibrand.org/tillersons-folly-bliss-martyr/
Mohammed said, ‘I was made victorious through terror.’ So who is Dian Yulia Novi –female Indonesian terrorist and others that should disagree with Mohammed?