Another chilling example of the rapid destruction of the freedom of speech, and hence of free society, in Europe.
Here once again is the audio to which Bawer is referring:
“We’re Not the Thought Police,” by Bruce Bawer, FrontPage, April 9, 2018:
To read Robert Spencer’s Jihad Watch website regularly is to get an unsettling daily dose of real-life Islam-related horrors. But on April 4, Robert posted a half-hour audio that was even more disturbing than the bulk of his usual offerings. The audio records the visit by a couple of British police officers to the home of a British subject who had apparently been reported to the authorities for posting anti-Islam comments on social media. The householder in question greeted the cops with surprising – perhaps nervous? – cheeriness, and for a half hour he earnestly, willingly, and good-humoredly answered their indefensibly intrusive and insulting questions about his opinions. Among them: What were his political beliefs? What did he think of Islam? Did he hate Muslims? Was he a racist? Was he a Nazi?
It quickly became clear that this man – whose name we never learn, unless I missed something – is anything but a racist or Nazi or hater of any kind. On the contrary, he is a thoughtful citizen who, after considerable study, has come to some sensible conclusions about Islam. He made it clear that, unlike his visitors, he had read the Koran, had acquainted himself with the major specifics of the life of Muhammed, and knew the basics of Islamic theology. He was, it emerged, a strong opponent of Islam for precisely the right reasons, including (as he mentioned) the fact that it commands believers to do harm to infidels, Jews, and gays.
Yet even as he spelled out these indisputable truths about Islam, the police officers responded as if he was imagining it all. They suggested that he might want to sit down for a conversation with an Islamic scholar, who could clear up what they seemed determined to view as his misunderstandings. They insisted, moreover, that they were not the Thought Police – even though there is no other word for police officers who show up at the home of an innocent citizen to interrogate him about his personal opinions.
A couple of reader comments on the Jihad Watch audio suggested it was fake, on the grounds that police officers in a free country would surely never do such a thing. Wrong. For me, the audio brought back vivid memories – for I’ve had my own very similar encounter with European policemen. My experience was slightly different in that instead of being visited at home, I was summoned to a local police station in Norway, where I live. But the encounter itself, which took place in January 2014, was strikingly similar to the one recorded on the Jihad Watch audio. My interrogators even assured me, as their British colleagues assured the fellow in the audio, that they were not the Thought Police. When I heard that statement on the audio, I couldn’t help wondering: are cops around Europe, even in different countries, working off of the same script?
Immediately after returning home from my visit to the police station back in January 2014, I sat down and typed up everything I could remember about the exchange I’d had with my new uniformed friends. The conversation had been in Norwegian, and I wrote it out in Norwegian. I sent copies to a few friends of mine, including Hans Rustad, editor of the vitally important Norwegian website document.no, who, in response, told me that he had heard similar, and equally disturbing, accounts from other people living in Norway. He actually took a copy of my testimony with him to a meeting at the Norwegian Ministry of Justice, where he confronted officials with this example of thoroughly inappropriate police conduct.
My Norwegian-language account of my exchange with the police officers later appeared in print (but not online) in a document.no publication, but has never appeared in English. After hearing the audio at Jihad Watch, however, I decided that it might be worthwhile to translate my account into English so that any doubters might understand that, yes indeed, this how at least some police officers in Europe conduct themselves in this era of Islamization.
So here it is, without further ado, but with newly added comments and explanatory information in brackets:
On January 9, I received a phone call from a policeman in Skien [the county seat of Telemark, where I live]. He said he wanted to meet me because he thought my knowledge of Islam could help the police in the fight against Islamic terrorism. He explained that someone at PST [the Norwegian Police Security Service, Norway’s equivalent of the NSA or MI5] had recommended that he speak with me. I said I would be glad to be of help. We agreed to speak again a few days later to agree on a time and place.
During the days that followed I spent a good deal of time preparing for what I imagined would be a crash course in Islam. When we spoke by telephone for the second time, I thought I detected a subtle change in his tone and immediately suspected that his objective was, in fact, not to draw on my expertise but to interrogate me. This suspicion was reinforced when he said, at the end of the conversation, that he himself was a PST officer.
This was precisely the same thing that had happened to me during the [mass murderer Anders Behring] Breivik trial [in 2012], when Geir Lippestad [Breivik’s lawyer] summoned me as an “expert witness.” His real intention at that time was not to make use of my “expertise” but rather to expose me to scorn and derision as one of several writers who had supposedly “influenced” the killer and who thus shared in the blame for his crimes.
On January 15, I met the PST officer and a colleague of his, also from PST, at a police station near my home. Indeed, it turned out that they had no interest in learning anything about Islam from me. They wanted to know about other things. How, for example, had I come to be so critical of Islam? Which other members of the anti-Islam community was I acquainted with? Which far-right websites was I in the habit of reading? Had I experienced discomfort in encounters with Muslims? Did I know Hans Rustad, editor of document.no, which publishes critical aticles about Islam and European immigration policy? Had I ever posted comments on his website?
At first I played along – too much. I told them about the time my partner had been assaulted by a Muslim with a knife at a bus stop at St. Hanshaugen in Oslo, and about the time a Muslim yelled “faggot” at him and kicked him on the tram. I mentioned the doctor I knew who had been killed at his office by a Muslim asylum seeker. As for Hans Rustad, I said, “Yes, I know him. He’s a terrific guy and he has a terrific website. But no, I’ve never commented on articles there.”
They asked about Fjordman [counterjihadist writer Peder Are Nøstvold Jensen]. Had I ever met him? Yes, we had gotten together for beers 3-4 times in Oslo several years ago. We had also both attended a conference in The Hague sometime around 2006. Oh yes? Which conference? The Pim Fortuyn Memorial Conference. Who arranged that? I don’t know. Who else took part? Robert Spencer, Bat Ye’or, several others. They seemed to be interested in these details. They asked me what I thought about Fjordman. I answered the question rather exhaustively.
Then they came to Breivik. How had I felt when I learned that Breivik had read some of my books and articles? They emphasized that they were fully aware of the dangers of Islamic terrorism, but they were also worried that a writer like me could help “create a new Breivik” or several of them. It was at about this point that I began to fire back a bit. I said that Breivik was a maniac, and that if he hadn’t happened to get hooked on Islam as an object of hate, he would have gotten hooked on something else to hate. They didn’t seem to be willing to accept the possibility that Breivik was just a crazy man, an isolated case. I got the impression that they were working from the premise that Breivik was a cold-blooded counterjihadist who had been created by other counterjihadists.
In a slightly irritated tone, one of the two men reminded me that during the first hours after the government buildings in Oslo were bombed, that is before Breivik was identified and before his motives were known, many people in Oslo had assumed that the city was under attack by Muslim terrorists, and that this had resulted in people assaulting Muslims in the streets. [Note: I have never seen any documentation of this claim.] One of PST’s concerns, he said, was that if a Norwegian Muslim committed a murder like the horrible killing of Lee Rigby in London, there would be a violent anti-Muslim reaction. [They always worry more about the anti-Muslim “backlash” that virtually never happens than about the actual Islam-motivated atrocity.]
My interlocutors had read Breivik’s “manifesto.” They talked about his patchwork of plagiarized historical essays and information about weapons in a way that suggested that, in their eyes, it was a key document for the understanding of the counterjihad movement.
“Have you read the Koran?” I asked.
“No,” both of them said. They were not at all embarrassed about it.
“Well, you should,” I said. “If you want to understand the mentality that underlies Islamic terrorism, you’ll find its origin there.”
One of them answered quickly. “We know that radical Muslims have misinterpreted the Koran.”
“It’s not a question of interpretation,” I replied. “The passages in question are very clear.” I emphasized that while none of the writers they were trying to link to Breivik had called for killing, the Koran calls for killing infidels again and again.
They paid no heed to this. In fact they seemed to find it distasteful to talk about the Koran in this way.
They wanted to know what I thought about the “Eurabia conspiracy theory.”
“What do you mean by that term?” I asked.
“Haven’t you heard it before?”
“Of course, but I hope you understand that this is an expression one almost never hears outside of Norway. It’s a concept that has been invented by the Norwegian left. What does it mean to you?”
“It’s about Muslims wanting to take over Europe.”
“That’s not a conspiracy theory. Jihad is a reality, it’s a core Islamic idea. Do you know how Islam divides the world?”
They shook their heads.
“The world consists of the House of Islam, where Islamic law prevails, and the House of War, which is the part of the world where Islamic law does not yet prevail. According to the Koran, there will not be peace in the world until the House of War is totally conquered by Islam.”
They weren’t interested in hearing about this, either. One of them explained what they meant by the “Eurabia conspiracy theory”: “What we’re referring to is the idea that, for example, Stoltenberg [Jens Stoltenberg, Labor Party politician and Prime Minister from 2000-1 and 2005-13] is secretly conspiring with Muslims with the goal of transforming Norway into an Islamic state.”
What struck me about this was that they talked about Stoltenberg as if he were still Prime Minister. [Just as America’s Deep State is Democratic, Norway’s is Labor.]
At one point, they asked a question that led me to say something very critical about the attempt, after July 22 [the date, in 2011, of Breivik’s atrocities], to limit freedom of expression in Norway. One of them asked me, do you think that there is greater freedom of expression in the U.S. than in Norway? I replied that there’s much more freedom of expression in the U.S. than in all of Western Europe. I mentioned Lars Hedegaard, Geert Wilders, and others who had been put on trial in various Western European countries because of things they had said or written about Islam.
“Where is the limit, then?” asked one of the PST guys, his tone rather sharp.
“There shouldn’t be any limit, unless you call for violence,” I said. They seemed to react to this. I had the impression that they felt I had crossed a line.
During the conversation they reassured me at least three times that this was not an interrogation – but that’s exactly what it was. A couple of times they said that they had no plans to arrest me – which, of course, served as a reminder that they had the power to do so. They also insisted a couple of times that they were not “Thought Police” [tankepoliti]. At one point, one of them mentioned that they can’t do everything the NSA can do, because the law doesn’t allow it, but that they do absolutely everything they can within the framework of Norwegian law.
The entire conversation lasted about an hour and a half. It was intense. They fired questions at me almost without a break. Several times they returned to questions I had already answered. When the whole thing was over, they informed me that they might be contacting me again.
Afterwards, I regretted that I hadn’t just stood up and walked out when I realized that I had been summoned there under false premises. In these times, when certain critical voices and opinions are considered illegal, I would never knowingly have put myself in such a situation with the police. But this was a trap, and they were clearly betting that I would stay there and answer their questions because it would have seemed both uncomfortable and rude to do anything else.
They were right: I stayed there because I didn’t want to make a scene. But while I’m sorry I answered some of their questions so dutifully, I’m glad I took advantage of the opportunity to put up at least something of a challenge. In any event, what emerges from the audio at Jihad Watch is that those bobbies in Britain (apparently Lancashire), like my PST buddies in Norway, have been trained to view Islam as essentially benign and criticism of Islam as a danger. Both sets of cops manifestly consider it part of their job to hunt down critics of Islam and try to intimidate them into silence. And none of them have the slightest regard whatsoever for freedom of speech. They don’t even seem to grasp the concept.
They’ve also apparently been taught – and this is the creepiest part – to emphasize that they’re not Thought Police. This is obviously a result of training, because it would never occur independently to such people – who have plainly never read a word of Orwell – to make such a declaration in the first place. This, then, is what we are up against in today’s western Europe: police departments that are producing Thought Police – and, as part of that production process, are instructing them to reassure the proles that, no, of course they’re not Thought Police.
Sure. And war is peace, freedom is slavery, and ignorance is strength.
mortimer says
Jihad Watch is indeed a daily dose of REALITY. I pray that those POLLYANNAS who visit here will snap out of their SOOTHING HYPNOTIC TRANCE, and realize that JIHAD AGAINST THE KAFIRS UNTIL VICTORY is the driving force in Islam.
Only 1% or less of Muslims are conducting KINETIC JIHAD, but ALL Muslims are verbal jihadists since they all conceal this driving force from the impure DISBELIEVING KUFAAR.
POLLYANNAS, SNAP OUT OF HYPNOSIS at the count of three! One, two, three! See the jihad!
Robin says
“Jihad Watch is indeed a daily dose of REALITY.”
Sadly not the slightest reality in this case. Those people were NOT POLICE. They were not doing a crime investigation. They were operataing the entirely VOLUNTARY Prevent (counter-terrorism) process. They invited him TO VISIT THEM VOLUNTARILY for a friendly chat. The guy had posted to Facebook that it had been ok that MP Jo Cox had been killed. They didn’t prosecute him for that (so much for the thought police state of RS’s imagination). Do you seriously think if someone in US facebooked that it had been ok to kill Senator xyz, that they would merely invite him fof a friendly chat? . Sadly RS cannot be bothered to inform himself about the uk but instead promotes paranoid delusions that we are under an orwellistanian regime.
pandainc says
Even though you are. And apparently don’t know it.
Robin says
I actually live here and know what actually happens here rather than the selective fantasies presented as supposed news by JW.
Andy says
These thought police are all in on the con, sort of speak!
They are not part of the establishment, THEY ARE THE ESTABLISHMENT now! Plus the politicians!
The people running the show now would have arrested Winston Churchill if he was still alive for Islamaphobia!!!
We live in most corrupt of times.
Western world nations are in decline and have lost a role as world’s leader and a force for good.
One need look no further than the character of the men and women we have elected to office and who sit in places of judgment to understand, a nation’s leaders are indicative of that nation’s character, they are who we are!
Andy says
Political correctness is killing people
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtAgUeV-vTA
Robin says
It’s sad to see further down this page all the exhibitions by “gravenimage” and “JawsV” of their mental problems rather than any useful contribution to what could be a valuable space here. They just constantly misrepresent what I say with endless straw babies of things I never have said. Please do bear this in mind if you get further down the page. Some of us really do have better things to do with our time (e.g. actually working against Islam) than attempting to provide psychotherapy via remote websites. Cheers.
gravenimage says
I see that “Robin” is attempting to get out ahead of his takedowns on this thread.
Richard says
If this isn’t Orwellian, what on earth is??? The non-Thought Police start out and increasingly push this guy and insult his attitudes, then want him to talk with an “Islamic scholar” to, in effect, accept the Islamic view … or else!!! That would put him on an Islamic hit list, of course. They want him to say he is “alt-Right, whatever that is. My attitudes are middle of the road as of the 1950s. If the rest of the world has changed, why should I? They attack this guy for being a nationalist. A few generations ago, the Brits would have put him in prison if he wasn’t. I cannot even begin to keep up with the changes in moral attitudes from day to day. Now they are putting “crying closets” in universities and asking five-year-olds if they want sex change operations. In Canada, if the parents won’t let their kids have that operation, the government will take him/her/it away from them. Am I weird not to accept this? I recall a bishop telling Monsignor Lefebvre that “things in the Church have changed”, to which the good Monsignor responded, ” Then I shall wait until they change back again.”
Wellington says
You paint, Robin, with a very broad brush. You know or should know that Robert Spencer knows Islam inside and out and gets his facts down straight about Islam. What has Spencer ever asserted about Islam that is incorrect? Can you cite an example or two?
Islam is a mortal enemy of freedom in a way no other major religion remotely is (btw, I am not religious at all). Jihad Watch serves an extremely important role worldwide by conveying to others the many heinous, disturbing and destructive aspects of Islam, such as death for apostasy, the sanctioning of rape, and death or severe harm for anyone who criticizes or mocks Islam, the Koran or Mohammed. Every major school of Islamic theology, both Sunni and Shiite, upholds to this very day the three hideous aspects of Islam which I just mentioned. There are many more such hideous aspects but I suspect you don’t care to know about them. And by the way, what you call a friendly chat ain’t my idea of a friendly chat. Wise up.
Robin says
“What has Spencer ever asserted about Islam that is incorrect? Can you cite an example or two?”
I never said he had asserted anything incorrect about Islam. The incorrectness is in your strawman delusions. I did point out that he hasn’t a clue about the situation in UK, he is just writing out his paranoid ignorance instead. By the way, there are now many others who are also very competent in their study of Islam. And who don’t make such sad exhibitions of themselves as R does here.
Wellington says
Hasn’t a clue about what is going on in the UK? C’mon. Article after article here at JW details what has happened in the the UK by way of the Orwellian distinction that has occurred in the UK between free speech and hate speech. Muslim immigration continuing, Muslim rape gangs, police often turning a blind eye to Muslim barbarism, the admittance of hate-spewing imams to the UK while blocking fighters for freedom like Spencer and Geller, no-gone zones described, people afraid to speak out about their detestation of the worst religion of all time, police actually visiting homes for the great offense of saying negative things about Islam, et al. and you aver that Spencer doesn’t know what is going on in the UK? Talk about delusional.
And forget Spencer per se. Here at JW and many other sites can be found one personal testimony after another, both by Brits and visitors to Britain, of how London has become Londonistan and other metropolitan areas turned into Muslim controlled neighborhoods. You really think that all those, including Spencer, that keep maintaining that Britain is not the Britain of old because of Muslim immigration, Muslim crime, Sharia dictates carried out on the sly (FGM and polygamy), PC/MC, your ordinary Brit cowered into silence often times, etc., just don’t know what they’re talking about? C’mon.
Finally, you’re a nitpicker. You said that those who two officials in Norway were not the police and technically you are right but they are part of the overall law enforcement element in Norway and that is what is pertinent. I don’t see how anyone can read that personal account above, now in English translated from Norwegian, and not conclude that what transpired is creepy stuff, including the officials, as in the UK example, actually telling the person that they are not the Thought Police. Orwell would have had a field day with material like this and you can’t see it.
Robin says
“Hasn’t a clue about what is going on in the UK? C’mon. Article after article here at JW details what has happened in the the UK”
But only in a grossly selective way. I know what’s happening that Spencer doesn’t know and can’t be bothered to ask about.
“Finally, you’re a nitpicker. You said that those who two officials in Norway were not the police”
I haven’t said anything about Norway. I have only written about the uk case here. I stick to what I actually know rather than just read.
Robin says
“You really think that all those, including Spencer, that keep maintaining that Britain is not the Britain of old because of Muslim immigration, Muslim crime, Sharia dictates carried out on the sly (FGM and polygamy), PC/MC, your ordinary Brit cowered into silence often times, etc., just don’t know what they’re talking about?”.
I never said that wasn’t the case. You are just ranting at your own strawbabies. What Spencer and his clueless followers NEVER say is that the direction of change is now from worse to better. All this is now coming out after decades of being suppressed. But Spencer just constantly rants his ignorance. He hasn’t spent a fraction of the years I have here, and he hasn’t even BEEN here in the last 5 years. And yet supposedly he knows better than us on the actual ground, actually doing things.
Wellington says
Since you were vague about which police you were speaking about, I assumed (wrongly) that you meant the officials in Norway, but my overall point is still valid, to wit, those officials in the UK were all part of the law enforcement structure and establishment; in short you were still nitpicking. And what of the entire narration about what went on in Norway? Or is Spencer delusional about Norway too?
Worse to better? Uh-huh. So, this helps explain the very recent petition for a Freedom of Speech Act which was turned down by May’s Tory government. The very fact that such a petition had to be drawn up in the first place speaks volumes. Also, it’s not just Spencer “ranting” as you describe it, but many people, both Brits and non-Brits, who just within the last year, hell within the last few months, keep describing the descent of Britain, for instance Khan as Mayor of London and all the knife attacks recently and with a murder rate higher than NYC. This amounts to things getting better?
But all right. Go ahead. Provide me some examples of how things are getting better. You know you should have done this in the first place because generalizations without examples are worthless. And I do hope things are getting better. Soon like because Britain is running out of time.
Robin says
“Provide me some examples of how things are getting better.”
I have already stated numerous points on this page and on the preceding one about the supposed interrogation. I don’t propose to continue responding to the endless outpouring of timewasting from you and others here, I have better things to be getting on with, with the people who are actually DOING things here but never getting any mention in Mr Spencer’s unhelpful bubble of Jihad-is-winning- everywhere paranoia.
Robin says
Alright, just one last effort to break through the ocean of ignorance on this site.
– For four or more decades there HAD been a huge coverup of Muslim pedo-rape-gangs, completely covered up for PC purposes. That bubble has now burst.
– For the past fiftyyears it HAD been impossible to speak out against immigration without being vilified and criminalised. That bubble has now burst.
– For the past fiftyyears it HAD been impossible to speak out against Islam without being vilified and criminalised. That bubble has now burst. Saeeda Warsi the other year said “Islamophobia has now become respectable”. (Just one example: Note how that guy in the Prevent (so-called “interrogation”) discussion was able to express his criticisms of Islam without them accusing him of any crime or even “hate speech”.)
– For far longer than anyone can remember, uk people have been imprisoned for using offensive words (nothing to do with Islam). Many people are NOW speaking out against that restriction. They WERE NOT doing it earlier.
– Police Commissioner Cressida Dick stated a week ago that the “You [Muslim false accusers] will be believed” policy (which got myself locked up for 20 hours and threatened with imprisonment) had been a mistake and is being abandoned.
– In previous years, anti-Islam marches got heavily opposed by violent “anti-fa” and violent gangs of Mohammed Youth. EDL’s TR stated that they could not go back to Birmingham because it was too dangerous. By contrast, last month two huge anti-Islam events were held, with speeches condemning Islam in the most offensive of terms, and with the police protecting them and restraining the piddling little gathering of “anti-fa” diehards. The supply of people still daft enough to support the politically-correct pseudo-antiracism is drying up.
– And only a handful of the many thousands of local muslims were anywhere to be seen.
– A similar situation last year in Manchester, a huge event with a piddling number in opposition. (I tried chatting with one but she ran off declaring “I haven’t read the quran BBUUTT….”)
– Those making those Islam-offensive speeches have not been even threatened with arrest.
Indeed some of their offensive statements actually got reported in the mainstream media.
– A new political party has just been officially registered with its main point being anti-Islam.
– The regime tried for years to get rid of Tommy Robinson. He is now protected by police rather than harassed by them. The regime has failed to silence the truth.
– Never before have there been so many EX-muslims speaking out about the cult.
– Never before have so many non-Muslims been so aware of the negative character of Islam, and consider it unacceptable. Everyone knows that Islam is a pile of clap, just you aren’t going to get the regime or media saying it.
– For many years, it has been impossible to voice an anti-Islamic view at Speakers Corner. Now the jihadists are outnumbered by the anti-Islamics.
– Jihadist voices such as Anjem Choudary are NOW in prison, they weren’t for years before.
– Many of the hijab wearers are only pretending to be muslims. Some major exposés on TV such as “Islam’s non-believers”.
– The uk regime are now panicking, their desperation showing in trying to exclude visitors such as recently from Austria and Canada.
A backlash takes time to develop. It is now very much developing. We have hugely advanced here in the last few years, but no thanks to the constant drivel of being “lost” and “doomed” from JW and PG.
This is in a context of Islam’s terminal crisis worldwide. Never before has Islam been under such relentless attack. Even the saudi prince is opening an OPERA house- the height of haram evil. And has paid the highest ever price for a painting – of J Christ, for Christ’s sake. The end is nigh – for the cult. The Saudi oil money is running out and Islam’s time is running out with it.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I propose to get back to our actually doing something about it rather than just engaging in endless strawman merrygorounds here. Cheers.
Robin says
Oh, and I forgot to mention that everyone keeps well away from the Dawah stalls in case they suddenly explode!
gravenimage says
How does Robert Spencer’s opposing the horrors of Jihad entail his making a “sad exhibition” of himself?
And how are things in Britain overall getting better–unless one considers more Muslim rape cases, violent Jihad attacks, and official suppression of so much as pointing these things out to be “better”?
Notice that “Robin” does not cite a single example of things getting better.
I can think of a couple of things myself, but they are all rather undercut–Tommy Robinson speaking in London, but only because the scheduled speaker was banned from entering the country; further prosecution of Muslim “grooming gangs”, but that reveal that these cases of the rape of underaged British girls are far more extensive than was previously thought.
So–examples, please, that things are really improving in the UK. If things really *are* getting better there, no one would be happier than myself.
Robin says
“So–examples, please, that things are really improving in the UK”
Have just replied, further up here it appears.
Wellington says
Robin: Your 12:20 P.M. post shifted from things getting better, which you said was the case and I asked you about, seeking examples from you in my 11:46 A.M. post, to the “supposed interrogation.” Then, only in your 12:58 P.M. post did you attempt to give examples and these only came with general statements about “how the bubble has burst” with no specifics or other rot like, “for far longer than anyone can remember uk {sic} people have been imprisoned for using offensive words.” Yeah, when? Provide examples. Stun me. Gotta’ tell you, the timeline alone I already mentioned above characterizes you as a liar.
Finally, you had to stoop so low as to assert that gravenimage and Jaws V have “mental problems.” You really are desperate and I am sick of you. You are a disgrace. I’m not sure what your stupid game is but I know this much: It is not an honest one.
Robin says
“Finally, you had to stoop so low as to assert that gravenimage and Jaws V have “mental problems.” ”
Really? You consider those words to be some sort of insult or offensive? I myself have had “mental problems”, as have many others, and you apparently consider those FACTS about them to be insulting about themselves. Sorry, I stated my perception of facts, and you replied with your attitude of contempt, not I. Presumably in your funny world, psychiatrists are all despicable scum constantly insulting their clients with offensive diagnoses.
>”You really are desperate and I am sick of you. You are a disgrace. I’m not sure what your stupid game is but I know this much: It is not an honest one.”
I took the trouble to state a whole load of very important facts,learnt over many years. I presented them to you free of charge (unlike the books by Saints RS and PG). Those facts didn’t entirely agree with your present ignorance. And so instead of contributing anything sensible here you instead waste an entire comment on drivel about what you think of me.
Robin says
“Yeah, when? Provide examples. Stun me.”
A little remedial eduation for Wellinton here. If you want to learn from a free teacher, it is best to ask them respectfully and civilly and with an attitude of gratitude rather than hostility and contempt.
And by the way, I am not billing you for this first lesson. You might want to sort yourself out before I put up my fees.
Wellington says
Robin: You may be a free teacher but you are also a bogus teacher. The latter descriptive definitely carries more “weight” than the former. And I’m not at all sorry to say that no fees will be forthcoming from me. So, financially speaking, prepare accordingly.
gravenimage says
OK–“Robin’s” reply had not posted before I asked him or her for examples.
Let’s see:
For four or more decades there HAD been a huge coverup of Muslim pedo-rape-gangs, completely covered up for PC purposes. That bubble has now burst.
…………………………….
Yes–some of these cases have come to light, and I am glad to see it. The problem is that these horrifing cases of Muslim rape of young girls appear to be ongoing, which is hardly a good thing.
More:
For the past fiftyyears it HAD been impossible to speak out against immigration without being vilified and criminalised. That bubble has now burst.
…………………………….
Yes, I’m glad to see that Tommy Robinson is out of jail. But right now, Paul Golding and Jayda Fransen are in prison for speaking out against Muslim rape gangs, and others speaking out against the Muslim invasion of Britain are still banned from entering the country. How is any of this proof that the “bubble has now burst”? Rather, it is just the opposite.
More:
For the past fiftyyears it HAD been impossible to speak out against Islam without being vilified and criminalised. That bubble has now burst. Saeeda Warsi the other year said “Islamophobia has now become respectable”.
…………………………….
Saeeda Warsi is a Muslim engaged in endless fake victim-mongering, castigating Britons for supposed prejudice against Muslims. The idea that this should be taken as a good sign is quite disingenuous.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/jan/20/lady-warsi-islamophobia-muslims-prejudice
More:
(Just one example: Note how that guy in the Prevent (so-called “interrogation”) discussion was able to express his criticisms of Islam without them accusing him of any crime or even “hate speech”.)
…………………………….
The idea that we should be cheering every time someone critical of Islam is *not* arrested and imprisoned shows just how bad things are.
Moreover, just being called in to speak to authorities about his views is apt to have a chilling effect, as it is surely intended to do.
More:
Police Commissioner Cressida Dick stated a week ago that the “You [Muslim false accusers] will be believed” policy (which got myself locked up for 20 hours and threatened with imprisonment) had been a mistake and is being abandoned.
…………………………….
How dishonest. Cressida Dick was *not* referring to Muslim false accusers here. In fact, the specific reference was to sex crimes:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-ditch-practice-of-believing-all-victims-jsg6qd2ws
More:
In previous years, anti-Islam marches got heavily opposed by violent “anti-fa” and violent gangs of Mohammed Youth. EDL’s TR stated that they could not go back to Birmingham because it was too dangerous. By contrast, last month two huge anti-Islam events were held, with speeches condemning Islam in the most offensive of terms, and with the police protecting them and restraining the piddling little gathering of “anti-fa” diehards. The supply of people still daft enough to support the politically-correct pseudo-antiracism is drying up.
– And only a handful of the many thousands of local muslims were anywhere to be seen.
…………………………….
I’m definitely glad to see Britons finally come out against Jihad–and in numbers large enough to discourage Antifa attacks. Characterizing such as “offensive” is just bizarre, though, for a supposed Anti-Jihadist.
More:
Those making those Islam-offensive speeches have not been even threatened with arrest.
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Again, the disturbing characterization of being critical of Islam as offensive–and, again, the claim that we should be grateful if we are not threatened with arrest for criticizing the horrors of Jihad.
More:
Indeed some of their offensive statements actually got reported in the mainstream media.
…………………………….
Were they reported favorably–or at least neutrally? Or were they condemned? If it was the latter, this is nothing new, as “Robin” pretends. Anti-Jihadists have long been castigated in the MSM.
More:
A new political party has just been officially registered with its main point being anti-Islam.
…………………………….
Is this a reference to Nigel Farage? If so, this has more to do with UKIP fragmenting than anything else.
More:
The regime tried for years to get rid of Tommy Robinson. He is now protected by police rather than harassed by them. The regime has failed to silence the truth.
…………………………….
Well, he’s out of jail now, and I’m glad. But he has been repeatedly arrested, and was on trial just a few months ago for filming outside a court and daring to refer to child rapists as pedophiles.
https://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2017/05/26/ex-edl-leader-tommy-robinson-spared-jail-for-contempt-of-court/
I’m glad he’s not in prison now, but the claim that this means Tommy Robinson is henceforth free of harassment and threat of jail seems rather premature.
More:
Never before have there been so many EX-muslims speaking out about the cult.
…………………………….
This is good. Unfortunately, this has nothing to do with official British policy.
More:
Never before have so many non-Muslims been so aware of the negative character of Islam, and consider it unacceptable. Everyone knows that Islam is a pile of clap, just you aren’t going to get the regime or media saying it.
…………………………….
If everyone knows something, but it is not to be spoken of or acknowledged officially, that *is a problem*, not a good thing.
More:
For many years, it has been impossible to voice an anti-Islamic view at Speakers Corner. Now the jihadists are outnumbered by the anti-Islamics.
…………………………….
How sad is it to have to cheer that those preaching the bloody destruction of Britain are now possibly outnumbered by those opposing it? Good grief…
More:
Jihadist voices such as Anjem Choudary are NOW in prison, they weren’t for years before.
…………………………….
It wasn’t until Choudary openly supported the horrors of ISIS that he wound up in jail.
Meanwhile, while peaceful Anti-Jihadists like Robert Spencer are kept out of the country, Jihadist thugs preaching violence are allowed in are regularly featured speakers:
“UK: Over 100 Muslim “extremist speakers” invited to speak at universities”
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/09/uk-over-100-muslim-extremist-speakers-invited-to-speak-at-universities
More:
Many of the hijab wearers are only pretending to be muslims. Some major exposés on TV such as “Islam’s non-believers”.
…………………………….
Why is a situation–in a free Western nation–where women are too terrified to take off their Hijabs to be considered a *good thing*? This is, instead, quite horrifying.
More:
The uk regime are now panicking, their desperation showing in trying to exclude visitors such as recently from Austria and Canada.
…………………………….
Ah…now we’re supposed to consider it a *good thing* that Britain is preventing non-violent people from entering the country.
How does that work again?
More:
A backlash takes time to develop. It is now very much developing. We have hugely advanced here in the last few years, but no thanks to the constant drivel of being “lost” and “doomed” from JW and PG.
…………………………….
Of course, it is not Anti-Jihadists who characterize principled opposition to the horrors of Jihad as a “backlash”.
More:
This is in a context of Islam’s terminal crisis worldwide. Never before has Islam been under such relentless attack.
…………………………….
Good grief–Jihadists are slaughtering people all over the world, and “Robin” characterizes any criticism of this as Islam being “under relentless attack”.
More:
Even the saudi prince is opening an OPERA house- the height of haram evil. And has paid the highest ever price for a painting – of J Christ, for Christ’s sake. The end is nigh – for the cult. The Saudi oil money is running out and Islam’s time is running out with it.
…………………………….
The Saudis buying up our artistic heritage is *not* an indication that they are mellowing toward Christianity or any other Infidels. What rot. As for the “reforms” there, they do not appear to be more than skin deep. “Chop Chop Square” is still in bloody evidence.
And even if this one Saudi prince were lax in enforcing the diktats of his vicious creed, that this is to be taken as a sign that Islam is ending is absurd. There have always been Muslims who have wanted to see the Saudi family out, and their own goons in power instead.
More:
Now if you’ll excuse me, I propose to get back to our actually doing something about it rather than just engaging in endless strawman merrygorounds here. Cheers.
…………………………….
What “Robin” is actually doing is pretty questionable…
More:
Oh, and I forgot to mention that everyone keeps well away from the Dawah stalls in case they suddenly explode!
…………………………….
Having to steer clear of Muslims out of fear in your own nation is *not* a good thing, despite what “Robin” would have us believe.
To the extent that patriotic Britons are standing up against Jihad and the Muslim invasion of their nations, this is a good thing. Little “Robin” has said here indicates that they are winning yet, though.
In fact, the Telegraph had an article a few weeks ago saying that with the ongoing influx that the Muslim population of Britain is apt to triple in just a few years. None of this will make Britons safer.
gravenimage says
Good posts, Wellington.
And “Robin’s” impliction that saying Jaws and I have “mental problems” was not intended to be insulting but was just a compassionate concern over our psychiatric health is just ridiculous.
And the idea that Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller are remiss in their generosity because they dare sell books is also grotesque. We owe a debt of gratitude to these brave Anti-Jihadists.
You are quite right in you estimation of the worth of “Robin’s” ‘teachings’ here.
Hope you are well, and are enjoying the spring weather.
Richard says
Wellington: We know this because of this wonderful web site. How many do not know it (or vehemently deny it) because they have no access to the daily barrage of Islamic terrorist horrors we read about? – let alone the true meaning of the Qur’an. I had a Spanish teacher in college who had served in the Foreign Legion. He said Muslims get eternal blessings in heaven for anything they do to a non-Muslim. But almost no one knows this and no one wants to know this. It is like the Jews cheerfully walking into the delousing rooms in Nazi Germany, not realizing they were gas chambers.
gravenimage says
Thinking that Islam is a religion of peace might make you a pollyanna. Persecuting patriotic citizens who consider Islam to be a threat to our civilized societies is something *much worse*.
mortimer says
These police investigators are sent to investigate a TOPIC THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT. This is absurd.
Should the police not send someone who is an EXPERT ON ISLAM? You would think so… but no, they send people with NO EXPERTISE ON ISLAM WHATSOEVER.
These investigators do not know the NAMES of Islam’s primary source books, let alone what is in them. Few of them will be aware that Islam is not merely based on ONE BOOK, the Koran, but on a VOLUMINOUS LITERATURE of much more than 1,000,000 words. This literature is considered divinely inspired … parts of it are considered to even SUPERSEDE the KORAN itself in authority.
The police KNOW NOTHING OF THIS. They are unacquainted with the manuals of Sharia law. They are unacquainted with the CANONICAL COMMENTARIES. They are unacquainted with the MANUALS ON JIHAD. They are unacquainted with the ESSENTIAL, REQUIRED, MANDATORY DOCTRINE of AL WALAA WAL BARAA … that requires Muslims to HATE and SEGREGATE themselves from DIRTY DISBELIEVERS.
The police know virtually NOTHING WHATSOEVER about Islam, and yet, preposterously and absurdly, they are sent to present themselves as EXPERTS ON ISLAM.
Anne Smith says
Why do people agree to undertake discussions with them if they admit to knowing nothing? Would it not be better to establish credentials of any so called “Police Interviewers” before getting into deep water?
Also surely anyone being interviewed should insist on having at the very least a witness or a recording (at least the British chap did that) as a memo and to correct any lies subsequently being promulgated.
gravenimage says
They are not trying to learn about Islam–they are trying to prevent anyone from criticizing Islam.
J D S says
Big problem with all of the writings in Islam not just the Koran but as Mortimer said VOLUMINOUS writings covering all aspects of Islam and actually believed to be the words of God…..but surely not the words of THE GOD. I have no idea which god the writers of the Koran and other Islamic writing are talking about, the god who is giving directions go perform such ATROCITIES as listed in the words of these writings but they are not the words of Jesus who is God in flesh.
Nowhere will one find in the New Testament where JESUS tells us to kill anyone…or do any of the other atrocious things outlined in Islamic writings. BIG PROBLEM Muslims don’t know that Jesus is the Messiah and there is where we, as disciples,of Jesus, may have failed.
Robin says
“These police investigators are sent to investigate a TOPIC THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT. This is absurd.”
They are NOT POLICE INVESTIGATORS. They are the PREVENT program of VOLUNTARY engagement with people they fear becoming radicalised. Unfortuntely Robert Ignoramus is completely clueles about this so you will not learn a fig about this key anti-jihad program here.
Plus more nonsense from Gravenetc:
“They are not trying to learn about Islam–they are trying to prevent anyone from criticizing Islam.”
They are NOT trying to prevent anyone criticising Islam, he does a lot of it there and they just respond civilly, they don’t make any threats. They are the PREVENT program trying to PERSUADE people away from terrorism (including counter-jihad). Meanwhile many jihadists such as Choudary ARE IN JAIL for saying what they think. This guy critised Islam and he’s not even threatened with prosecution. Ditto AMW’s speech the other week (of which clueless RS makes no mention), massively anti-Islamic and yet she is not being threatened with prosecution either, instead being protected by police.
In the real UK, Islam is getting a huge unprecedented battering.
But carry on drinking the JW paranoia coke…..
gravenimage says
More from “Robin”:
Plus more nonsense from Gravenetc:
“They are not trying to learn about Islam–they are trying to prevent anyone from criticizing Islam.”
They are NOT trying to prevent anyone criticising Islam, he does a lot of it there and they just respond civilly, they don’t make any threats.
………………………………
Bruce Bawer–a respected Anti-Jihadist–makes it *quite* clear that these agents are not seeking his help in preventing Jihad terrorism, as they first pretended–they were instead aggressively grilling him about his beliefs.
More:
They are the PREVENT program trying to PERSUADE people away from terrorism (including counter-jihad). Meanwhile many jihadists such as Choudary ARE IN JAIL for saying what they think.
………………………………
What grotesque conflation. Anjem Choudary is not in jail for simply saying what he thinks, but for supporting a terrorist organization and inciting violence.
Were have Bawer or Finch ever incited violence? Yet they are still being hounded.
More:
This guy critised Islam and he’s not even threatened with prosecution. Ditto AMW’s speech the other week (of which clueless RS makes no mention), massively anti-Islamic and yet she is not being threatened with prosecution either, instead being protected by police.
………………………………
Now Jihad Watch is supposed to gratefully cite every time an Anti-Jihadist is allowed to speak *without* being hauled before the authorities? Good God…
More:
In the real UK, Islam is getting a huge unprecedented battering.
But carry on drinking the JW paranoia coke…..
………………………………
Let’s see–recent stories have included more cases of Muslims raping underaged girls; a Muslim migrant plotting the murder of Jews and of the Queen; free speech activists Martin Sellner, Brittany Pettibone and Lauren Southern being prevented from entering the country; Muslims mobs being allowed to pray in public parks–certainly, there is unprecedented battering going on in Britain today, but it is not Islam that is on the receiving end…
Robin says
“Bruce Bawer–a respected Anti-Jihadist–makes it *quite* clear that these agents are not seeking his help in preventing Jihad terrorism, as they first pretended–they were instead aggressively grilling him about his beliefs.”
I was not commenting at any point about what happened re Bawer or Norway but only about the UK case. It is abundantly clear that this was not “aggressively” anything. They were just trying to engage with him as part of the Prevent program which is primarily about diverting Muslims from developing Sudden Jihad Syndrome by offering them a “counter-narrative”. At what point did you hear anyone shouting? Instead there was quite a lot of thoughtful engagement and good humoured expression but I guess that doesn’t register with RS’s paranoid jihadists-taking-over-the-universe mindset. The whole point of Prevent is that it is NOT about threatening anyone with accusations. If they did so, it would instantly destroy the entire Prevent program which is THE main anti-Islam policy in the uk.
He had previously put on facebook that it was ok to kill the MP Jo Cox. That would easily have qualified for a prison sentence anytime in the past xyz decades. But those Prevent officers didn’t even threaten him there. Because things ARE getting better. Do you seriously think the police actually like all these immigrants coming here and forcing everyone to kowtow and stop drinking?
gravenimage says
Yet more from “Robin”:
I was not commenting at any point about what happened re Bawer or Norway but only about the UK case. It is abundantly clear that this was not “aggressively” anything. They were just trying to engage with him as part of the Prevent program which is primarily about diverting Muslims from developing Sudden Jihad Syndrome by offering them a “counter-narrative”.
………………………….
This is just ridiculous. The British authorities never had *any* reason to believe that Christian Finch is Muslim, nor that he was apt to engage in Sudden Jihad Syndrome–nor is their anything in the interview above that could lead anyone to believe tha this is why Finch was told to come in.
And I’d like to know what “counter-narrative” they are providing to Jihadists–that they are “misunderstanding” Islam if they act on its demands that the faithful wage violent Jihad?
Even the BBC seems to have no idea what Prevent is actually doing, nor whether it is ever effective:
http://www.bbc.com/news/election-2017-40151991
More:
The whole point of Prevent is that it is NOT about threatening anyone with accusations. If they did so, it would instantly destroy the entire Prevent program which is THE main anti-Islam policy in the uk.
………………………….
Of course, describing Prevent as “anti-Islam” is ludicrous.
That this is the main anti-Jihad program largely explains why there is so much Jihad in Britain–it is not very effective.
More:
He had previously put on facebook that it was ok to kill the MP Jo Cox. That would easily have qualified for a prison sentence anytime in the past xyz decades. But those Prevent officers didn’t even threaten him there.
………………………….
There is absolutely no mention of Finch having said any such thing about Jo Cox in the interview above–hard to believe it would not come up, if he had been calling for the murder of Members of Parliament. I also have not been able to find any such reference on-line. If this is accurate, provide links to that effect.
More:
Because things ARE getting better. Do you seriously think the police actually like all these immigrants coming here and forcing everyone to kowtow and stop drinking?
………………………….
Of course, there are individual police officers who know that Islam is a threat–that does not mean that a policy of dampening freedom of speech is going to do anything to prevent just that happening.
Moreover, I am tired of this sort of thing–Muslims are threatening to crush our freedoms, destroy the arts, to rape women and children, to mass slaughter unbelievers, and to impose the brutality of Shari’ah law, and some fools pretend that the only problem is not being able to have a pint down at the local. What idiocy.
And again–no, things are not over all getting better in Britain, unless one considers a growing rate of Muslim rape and Jihad to be “better”.
MBR says
This Bruce Bawer interview, the embedded recording in England that Robert features, the Lindsay Shepherd interrogation at Wilfred Laurier university – all have several features in common:
1 the ignorance of the questioners surrounding the very topic they are interviewing about.
2 the constant resort to cliches and rigid stereotypical thinking in framing their questions.
3 the Kafkaesque vagueness of what it is that the interviewee is supposed to have been guilty of.
There seems little doubt on the evidence of these transcripts and recordings that political correctness and multiculturalism cripple truly critical thinking among the true believers.
william says
MOOEHAMMID was known as SHAERON MAJNOON!! The “CRAZED POET”!!
Anne Smith says
They have probably all been indoctrinated with the teachings of Common Purpose and will be impervious to reasoned thinking.
Free says
When free-speech journalist Lauren Southern was stopped at Calais recently from entering the UK by police using anti-terrorist legislation, she was asked many intrusive political questions including “how far Christian etc are you”. She was also asked if she wanted to use a car to run someone over!
Mercifully, a clever barrister has said there is no such thing in law as Thought Crime (Latin “mens rea”). Here is an extract form his blog:
“The Met’s website seems to presuppose the existence of an entirely novel type of criminal offence: a crime which requires only a guilty mind, mens rea but not actus reus. If such an offence existed then “thought-crime” would be a very good description of it. But of course it doesn’t”.
Link here:
http://barristerblogger.com/2018/03/18/the-met-has-a-problem-with-hate-crime-it-cant-explain-what-it-means/#more-2507
Robin says
A good discussion. That “hate crime” concept is totally wrong and needs to be repealed along with making a charter for full free speech, especially words which the recipient finds disagreeable or distressing. .Institutions “think” at glacial pace but they are doing a bit of moving, due to the huge gap of the regime from the populace (and the visible intellectuals) on these matters.
gravenimage says
There is overall actually less freedom of speech in Britain today, not more as “Robin” pretends.
Robin says
> “There is overall actually less freedom of speech in Britain today, not more as “Robin” pretends.”
The anonymous expert “gravenmiage” opines it – so it must be true.
Meanwhile I have presented numerous FACTS on the matter.
And it’s a safe bet I also have many more years of experience to draw on, as the personality shining out from graven’s posts is such as is only found in a person of meagre seniority.
Robin says
#JIHADISTLIVESMATTER!
Wellington says
You think generically stating stupid shit like “the bubble has burst” constitutes presenting “numerous FACTS?” Oh brother.
And what about the petition for a Freedom of Speech Act which Sharia May and her ilk turned down? What is your excuse for this?
gravenimage says
Actually, “Robin” does not present *any* facts for freedom of speech being better protected today than previously.
Besides Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller being banned in recent years, so have Martin Sellner, Brittany Pettibone and Lauren Southern.
Tommy Robinson is out now–but he has been jailed, and right now both Jayda Fransen and Paul Golding of Britain First are in prison.
How is any of this “better”?
gravenimage says
Why is the foul “Robin” now using this hashtag?
#JIHADISTLIVESMATTER!
He certainly seems to have no such concerns for their poor victims.
Robin says
> “He certainly seems to have no such concerns for their poor victims.”
Yet another completely fantasised strawman from this anonymous lunatic.
> “Why is the foul “Robin” now using this hashtag?”
#JIHADISTLIVESMATTER!”
Gosh a question – almost deserves an answer (at least for the more sane readers here).
As I see it, Jihadists are victims of an evil cult founded by a pedo thug, they even end up losing their lives to the cult. I uphold non-Islamic Christian values, according to which all persons’ lives matter, including those who kill themselves due to being victims of a cult. Meanwhile presumably gravenconstantstreamoffalsehoods here has some other, superior, attitude to the matter? But can’t be bothered to state it because he is so obsessed instead with his infantile ego-battle against myself.
Hint: #GETALIFE
gravenimage says
To proclaim that Jihadists’ lives matter while ignoring their savagery against their victims is *anything* but Christian.
dumbledoresarmy says
I will pray for these cops. And for those who interviewed that bloke in the UK.
Because… they admitted to Mr Bawer that they hadn’t read the Koran. The cops in the UK hadn’t, either.
The Norwegian blokes sounded as though they were surer of themselves – more deeply indoctrinated – than the British cops, who went about the whole thing very clumsily, as if they were ‘going through the motions’.
In any case: *my prayer* – and I am doing it in the awareness that our Lord coolly told his followers he was giving them authority to ‘cast out demons’ – is that those interviews – and the civilised, cheerful, calm demeanour of the persons they interviewed, not to mention the casually knowledgeable references to all manner of aspects of historic Islam and Islamic texts – will stick in some corner of the brains of those Norwegian and British cops like burrs; setting up a bit of cognitive dissonance.
And that, one day, surreptitiously, they *will* open up a Koran. And then, perhaps, they will have an “Oh sh*t I’ve been fed a load of cr*p!” moment…. and realize that the smoothtalking people – some sly imam down at the local mosque in some ‘outreach to the community’ evening? – who assured them that Islam was gooooood and that anybody opposing or criticising Islam and/or Muslims and/ or Islamisation was baaaaad, was talking dangerous treasonous BS.
gravenimage says
+1
Joy says
I’m not surprised, but, ironically, i am truly AGHAST at the advancement of the police state throughout the West today (but, apparently, more so in Western Europe than in the USA & Canada, although there have been frightening examples to the contrary in otherwise peaceful Canada). These two examples – Bawer’s account from an earlier encounter in Norway, and now these idiot “bobbies” in the UK – parroting crap of which they know either nothing or almost nothing, but trained well in the art of intimidation. I have only a couple of words of caution for these foolish and ignorant pawns of the state: Be careful what you engage in in the name of your Great Country! You are somewhere on the list of those who WILL BE eradicated, exterminated and treated as if they had never existed. The State cannot allow even their thin layer of information to remain at large!
Sentinel says
Interesting to note that Islam had its attempts to form its own Sharia police patrols it has turned to making the real police enforce Sharia Law by trying intimidate the public into accepting Islamic ideology.
Benedict says
The repulsive thing here is that these kind of conversations, that in other settings could be interesting and legitimate, are instigated by someone whose professional concern is law enforcement: You want to talk to me, fine, but you take of your uniform, even if it is a civil one, and our conversation is not to be registered or commented on in any electronic device or written record available for other state employed “Stasi bureaucrats”. Furthermore our conversation will be conducted in a neutral place. – That would immediately give the Thought Police something to think about.
Papa Whiskey says
Very creepy. One would like to be a fly on the wall of the room where these creatures were briefed before their invidious mission.
Anne Smith says
Common Purpose training room I suppose.
WESTPAC Spy says
I’m sure none of the other Americans commenting here has any idea of what you’re talking about. But I wholeheartedly agree with you.
gravenimage says
I’m an American, and I know what Common Purpose is.
https://www.ukipdaily.com/common-purpose-a-political-cult/
CogitoErgoSum says
What are we thinking? Well, at least some of us ARE thinking but the police, like too many others, are obviously NOT thinking and are NOT INTERESTED in doing the kind of thinking it would take to understand a book such as the Quran. It is much easier for them to have their thinking done for them by an elite few and the elite few believe that the goals of society as a whole outweigh the goals of any one individual. Persuasion and conditioning are required to control the masses and the job is made easier if the masses can first be deluded into the belief that life’s ultimate goal is the maximization of pleasure and the minimization of pain and discomfort. Hedonism has weakened the minds of the people to the point that privacy and personal freedom are no longer valued. Thus, as we pass through this Brave New World being constructed for us today the cowering old world of 1984 is awaiting us on the other side.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37N0aFmO19o
dumbledoresarmy says
Awhile ago – 2013 – ACT for America launched their ‘thin blue line’ project, in an attempt to *accurately* inform law enforcement officers about Islam.
I quote, from a statement made at the time –
“…The “thin blue line” is a reference to the line of law enforcement officers that stands between the law-abiding and the law-breaking.
“Unfortunately, thanks to suffocating political correctness in our country, most law enforcement professionals aren’t getting the information, materials and training they need to effectively understand and fight Islamist terrorism…”.
I would be interested to know, from jihadwatchers who are also ACT for America members, how that project went. Is it still ongoing? Has it had any effect, locally or regionally? Have Jihadwatchers in the USA been able to use it with cops that they personally know?
Because it’s the necessary and logical riposte to – or outflanking of – the brainwashing of our LEOs across the west and cooption of our cops to become Enforcers of de facto Islamic blasphemy law.
dumbledoresarmy says
I had a look at their current website and couldn’t see if their project to inform law enforcement was still ongoing.
Any members here, who could fill me in a little?
Because the thing is: what you don’t know will get you killed. And that’s what any non-Muslim cop – even if, at present, he or she is being brainwashed into becoming an agent of ‘thought police’ de facto enforcing sharia-style blasphemy ‘law’ and suppressing freedom of speech and promoting islamisation of his homeland – is going to discover, sooner or later.
If they don’t read the Enemy’s book/s – Sira, Hadith, Quran – they will be *blindsided*. One day, on the street, the Muslim mob will be surrounding them. One day, the knife might be at *their* throat, if they have not converted to Islam.
Jihadwatchers who have ‘contacts’ with the police – who have family or friends who are police – need to find ways of getting into conversation with that family member, or that friend.
Try- very very quietly and casually – to find out what if anything they know about Islam, jihad, sharia, the apostasy law, the blasphemy law, and – in light of the fact that a LOT of police work has to do with domestic violence – *honor* murders and how they differ (very substantially) from the usual sorts of family violence with which we are afflicted in normal non-Muslim countries..
Similarly… if you are a church goer – is there a cop sitting next to you in the pew? There might be. If there is… get to know him, and then… again.. find out what he’s being told about Islam, by his superiors. If you’re a Jew or a Christian… do you know, personally, someone who works as a police *chaplain*? If so – what does *he* know about Islam?
If you do have face-to-face contact with a person who works as a cop, and that contact is in the context of family, friendship, sporting club, or you’re both in the same church or synagogue – or temple community, if you’re HIndu or Buddhist – then… *you* the informed Jihadwatcher have a duty to find out what they’re being fed about Islam… and to correct it, if it’s manifestly false.
WPM says
The trouble is the cop on the street has to follow a set protocols that his superiors set. Who tell and appoints the commissioner and head of the police or any law enforcement agency the make up the set protocols ,the local and national elected officials .When there is a change in who is running the government then there is a shift on what the goals are and protocols for what the police do. The trouble the shift takes time .People in the lower and middle level are unwilling to deviate from the accepted game plan lay out by upper management ,they get punished with bad police details ,transfers , not getting promoted in some cases fired .How hard they follow the company line is a matter of person conscious and belief. Many will just ask the required questions on the company official check boxes others with trying to climb higher and faster up the ladder in their career will be more aggressive .As far as Islam is it goals if the elected officials are Islamic ,or Islamic appeasers looking for the Islamic vote the will put Sharia style questions for the police to ask to pander to the Islamic vote once these Sharia style protocols are in place they are hard to remove. The police in almost every country no matter what the government is are a semi military organization that have a chain of command to function. You get orders from the top, you follow orders ,you do not question orders, refusing a legal direct order is grounds for being fired{legal being debated here as to the questioning of people on their actives what can they ask ? why? what is legal today illegal next week?} ever in Democratic Western run countries . If the public is inform about bad police tactics they can pressure elected officials to change them ,or elect people willing change the appeasing of bulling Islamic Sharia police tactics. The trouble is most of the public is in the dark about what Islam is about , the MSM treatment it fear of the Islamic bullies , it pandering to satisfy P.C correctness give little print or one line information about this .The MSM in America is more focus on , BLM , Pussy hats, 73 different gender labels , and other PC cause to take this matter up it does not fit the progressive agenda. ,
WPM says
The connection of Brevik to people who write negative non -violent things about Islam is like saying Charles Manson quote Beetle lyrics so the beetles influence Charles Manson to start a murder cult . Even crazy murders, terrorist have interests outside of murder and read and approve sane peoples opinions or culture .Hitler was a vegetarian ,that does not mean all or many vegetarians approve or follow Nazism. Being a vegetarian or eating meat does not make you follow Nazism anymore then listening to or not listening to the beetles. May be Brevik like BMW cars and own one does that make BMW the official car of crazed killers?
Sarah says
That transcript just blew my mind. And genuinely sent cold chills down my spine. It scared me, it really did. The West is changing – and not for the better. It’s as though we never learned any lessons from the Great War and WW2, after all. It’s as though we just had a handful of decades as respite and now we’re being forced by our Politicians to pick it up again where we left off.
And here, I was one of many Australians who actively got out there and heavily protested against Section 18C of our Racial Discrimination Act when it was first introduced by the Australian Labor Party (left-wing, of course) – because it is a law designed specifically to kill free speech in favour of political correctness.
Yet,despite that evil law here, we are not experiencing anything remotely like this, yet, in Australia. Thank God for that.
Because if either the state or federal Police, let alone an ASIO operative were to ever show up on my doorstep and try and pull a stunt like this, with me – I would be hostile and uncooperative – and that is putting it very mildly. How DARE they come to you and interrogate you like this? And the whole thing is led by one specific political agenda – the so-called ‘Progressive’ or ‘Left-Wing’ ideology.
That is grossly inappropriate. Frankly, it’s arguably seditious. It’s just that in this case, it’s the State working to annhilate the People, rather than the usual other way around. Sedition is not something to take lightly. Like treason, it is a very very deeply serious crime. It’s demonstrably worse in this case, because it is the State trying to crush the People.
Jesus Christ, it’s like the Soviet’s all over again.
You cannot have your government and its representatives running your nation to the ethics and values of one specific political agenda. It’s been tried before – in Germany by a little someone called Adolf, for example – or the Soviet Union and Communism. Or China with Mao and his ‘cultural revolution’ and so on and so on.
When the government is actively enforcing one specific ideology – it is not only alarming, but it is a clear sign that democracy itself is failing and that the State has become the enemy. Now that opens up a whole new can of worms in itself- and it is a tremendous betrayal of Norway, every Norwegian and the Norwegian culture. And as has been proven again and again and again throughout modern history – when a democratic nation has its very democratic principles intentionally stripped away and discarded by the Politicians of the State – terrible, terrible things ensue. It has never once gone well. Not once.
Also, being blamed for Brevik is obscene and immensely offensive. That man was a nasty piece of work and as you say, if it wasn’t Islam that he obsessed over, it would’ve been something else. From what I understand anyway, Brevik’s range of topics and issues that he hated and used as justification for his sickening crimes was incredibly varied. He is just a disgustingly hateful creature. He shoud’ve been executed, not parked in one of those holiday camp style prison’s that your country is bizarrely so fond of. Another failure of the Norwegian government.
Orwell must have had a crystal ball. And he’s likely turning in his grave right now. This is truly, the stuff of nightmares.
No Fear says
Questions I would ask the police if they got me in the station for a chat:
Do these police spend any time talking to potential jihadis? Do these police think this man should be Sharia compliant? Do they think that Islam should be beyond criticism? Do these police think that it is racist to suggest that a muslim may have committed a sex crime and as a result of thinking it racist, therefore not investigate him? Do these police think that Winston Churchill is a racist? Do these police think that their job is to enforce Sharia? Do these police think that it is racist for indigenous Britons to peacefully resist being overrun by non Britons? Do these police believe that English society is EQUAL in every way to other societies?
No Fear says
I would also ask the police: If Islam became dominant in the UK, would you enforce Sharia even if indigenous Brits were harmed?
gravenimage says
Damn good question.
Baucent says
“They’ve also apparently been taught – and this is the creepiest part – to emphasize that they’re not Thought Police. This is obviously a result of training, because it would never occur independently to such people”
Very interesting incident and I agree the two interviews appear related, in that Police officers are using an interview template, that emphasised that they weren’t opposed to freedom of speech. And to throw in the “we’re not the Thought Police” as that is precisely what their actions indicate they are.
The other thing I noticed in the audio interview was the Police scarcely listened to the points made by the interviewee, and kept coming back to points he had already answered. As if they were following a sequence of questions to ask. This was no casual friendly chat, but a scripted interrogation.
There was also the absurd suggestion that if the chap was to sit down with a muslim teacher this misunderstanding of Islam he had, could be sorted out. Very unlikely Police would visit Richard Dawkings and suggest a chat over tea with the Archbishop of Canterbury would convince Dawkings of his error in thinking about Christianity. Special Police protection evidently for the religion of peace.
JM says
“We’re not the Thought Police.”
George Orwell himself couldn’t have put it
better.
And the wording itself is sinister, as if to suggest that the Thought Police does indeed exist.
In any case:
‘Never believe anything until it’s officially denied.’
Keys says
Citizen: Please explain what you mean.
Interrogation Team Member: By “we are not thought police”? Sure.
Meaning we do not police your pure thoughts, we just police thoughts you write down, or speak.
Go ahead and think all you want – you are free. But be cautioned on your eye movements, facial expressions, and body language – we have been trained to monitor that.
Think only with a poker face, and walk with your arms straight at your side – you know, like a light-bulb-nosed robot.
JM says
‘Your dog will perform differential equations before a Progressive can recognize a 1,400-year old campaign of genocide as a threat.’
Jan says
That’s about the best way one could ever define a Progressive !!! Thanks mate !!
Jan says
I just can’t believe my ears and believe this is happening in a western civilized and democratic country.
Something has gone terribly wrong somewhere …..
This clearly demonstrates that there is some extremely powerful and influential people and organizations behind this that have set out on a course of destruction of national identity by all means.
This guy should have refused to talk to them without the presence of a good lawyer !!!
JawsV says
Bruce Bawer: His name is Christian Finch. In Lancashire. See the first comment on the following:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPfrDB36GnU
JawsV says
I mean the first comment on the youtube video.
Robin says
This video picture is totally misleading. No police bashed on his door, he went voluntarily to chat with the officers who listened with interest to what he said. And no-one said those words there. Unfortunately the owner of Jihadwatch is too busy being “correct” to actually correct huge misinformation on his site.
> He made it clear that, unlike his visitors,
HE was the visitor, they did NOT visit him. A shame that jihadwatch has to indulge in false facts when the actual facts about Mo’s Pedo cult are bad enough anyway.
JawsV says
Yes, the cops came to Christian Finch’s door in Lancashire.
You don’t know what you’re talking about, Robin. April 4:
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2018/04/audio-uk-thought-police-claim-were-not-the-thought-police-as-they-harass-man-for-his-opinions-about-islam
And, don’t insult Robert Spencer if you don’t mind.
Robin says
“Yes, the cops came to Christian Finch’s door in Lancashire”.
“You don’t know what you’re talking about, Robin. April 4:”
On the contrary it is You who don’t know what you are talking about. Right at start of that video you can hear them indicating explicitly that HE is visiting THEM (after they invited him to chat with them about his facebook post saying it had been ok to kill MP Cox). Do you seriously think if anyone in US were to facebook that it had been ok to kill Senator xyz, that the police would merely invite him in for a chat? They’d have him in chains instead. And My Spencer does a great job of insulting himself by allowing such gross mislead on his site, as if the Mo pedo cult isn’t bad enough anyway.
JawsV says
Oh shut-up.
gravenimage says
Ah, yes–everyone goes down the police station to voluntarily chat with the police. sarc/off
The idea that it was the victim’s idea is just ridiculous. If anyone is summoned to talk to the police they realize that the next step if they do not comply may be arrest.
Robin says
“–everyone goes down the police station to voluntarily chat with the police. sarc/off”
Again you are just ranting in complete ignorance of what I know as I live here and know what is actually going on. This interview was the PREVENT program which is a VOLUNTARY thing nothing whatsoever to do with arresting or criminal investigation. Oh, but Professor Spencer said it so it must be true. Spencer is completely clueless about this country with which he has near zero familiarity.
JawsV says
Robin, why are you here? All you do is rant and rave and insult Spencer. In addition, you are wrong the coppers went to Finch, not the other way around. Spencer’s not a professor. He’s a writer and author. Why don’t you go back to the Guardian where you belong?
Robin says
“Robin, why are you here?”
I began to point out some serious misinformation on these pages. Spencer constantly misinforms people about the uk, as being supposedly “lost” to Islam, and that none of us here are doing anything. He never mentions those who ARE doing something such as AMW and me and thousands of colleagues. His contribution is seriously unhelpful. And then when someone tries to correct, they just get stupid slagging about them being secret muslims.
“All you do is rant and rave and insult Spencer.”
I pointed out his serious mistakes. No-one has debunked any of it here, despite all the hostility and contempt.
“In addition, you are wrong the coppers went to Finch, not the other way around.”
Bollocks. The opening words make clear the opposite. They were the Prevent operation, who don’t go to frighten or arrest people they invite people in for a chat if they fear they may be turning into jihadists or counter-jihadists. (In uk they have to be “balanced” about it, hence also engaging with “Islamophobes” as here.) Prevent is THE MAIN uk regime operation to counter Islam, and yet RS never says anything about it because he is bone ignorant about the uk situation, and his ego has no room left for new learning.
You can see some major FREE documents I have produced at http://www.IslamHoax.com and http://www.becomeAterrorist.com. And exactly what have you done for the cause?
“Why don’t you go back to the Guardian where you belong?”
Why don’t you? I have nothing to do with the g except I look at their free website to see what the latest lies are. Latest one is some twat arguing we need to bomb syria to dust because, like, it would make everyone so much more peaceful and happy to be rid of Assad.
gravenimage says
“Robin” wrote:
Bollocks. The opening words make clear the opposite. They were the Prevent operation, who don’t go to frighten or arrest people they invite people in for a chat if they fear they may be turning into jihadists or counter-jihadists.
…………………………..
So–now “Robin” considers Jihadists and Counter-Jihadists to be morally equivalent, and is fine with British authorities doing the same. *Ugh*.
I checked out IslamHoax, and it is pretty weak. It natters on about such matters as minor scientific and logical discrepancies in the Qur’an, while completely ignoring the horrific incitements to robbing, raping, and slaughtering those who do not submit to Islam.
It also scoffs at the idea that anyone would pretend to believe in Islam, where this is a clear threat to those who only convert to Islam at sword point.
Not really sure what this piece is for.
There *is* some good stuff at http://becomeaterr.blogspot.co.uk/ –although the tone is quite arch, the author is pretty knowledgeable about Islam.
It looks as though “Robin” was at pains to prove his or her bona fides with this last one.
Robin says
“I checked out IslamHoax, and it is pretty weak. It natters on about such matters as minor scientific and logical discrepancies in the Qur’an, while completely ignoring the horrific incitements to robbing, raping, and slaughtering those who do not submit to Islam.”
Errm, the whole point is that to be a Muslim you have to believe that the quran is perfect. Those whopping nonsenses (not at all “minor”, e.g.sun sets in a muddy spring) are the reason so many are leaving Islam now they can read the claptrap that passes for divine brilliance. That leaflet helps to spread the rot in an amusing way without having to get into the nasty bits of Islam. The http://www.becomeAterrorist is there to deal with that. As graven says, its author is pretty knowledgable. So is the author of the http://www.IslamHoax.com. They’re the same person who has put together the most damning verses rather than compile whole huge books that you can’t just hand out free. That’s the way to do campaigning. Cheers.
Robin says
http://www.becomeAterrorist.com
Ashley says
This from the transcript above:
“On January 15, I met the PST officer and a colleague of his, also from PST, at a police station near my home.”
I believe I hear an officer say in the opening of the audio, “Thanks for coming down…”
gravenimage says
True, Ashley–but Christian Finch also notes in the thread from the original story that police came to his home on three occasions.
gravenimage says
God only knows what “Robin” is “campaigning” for…
JM says
You’re most welcome, Jan.
Benedict says
“How had I felt when I learned that Breivik had read some of my books and articles? They emphasized that they were fully aware of the dangers of Islamic terrorism, but they were also worried that a writer like me could help “create a new Breivik” or several of them.”
….
It’s incredibly that the Thought Police would ascribe such motivating power to the writings of Bruce Bawer and other secular authors while ignoring the motivating power of the “divine” writings and commands in the Koran.
FYI says
What am I thinking?
I’m thinking…. I’d like to make an official complaint to the British police concerning hate speech.
I’d like to complain about islamic anti-Semitism(and anti-Christian teachings that are highly insulting to christians)……in the koran…..in particular the depiction of Jews as apes.
“Be ye apes,despised and hated”
koran 2 v 65
I would like if such a violent,anti-semitic book filled with hate speech be investigated and ,if necessary banned:or else,anti-semitic references like k2v65 should be formally erased from all copies of the koran.If the koran contains hate speech(and it does)and given that such anti-Semitic hatred should be prosecuted then perhaps the police and the Judiciary and the Government can explain WHY then are muslims allowed to get away with THEIR hate speech??
WHY should law-abiding citizens who point these unpalatable truths out,be prosecuted?
WHAT crime exactly, is it to protest?
I’m thinking that the two-faced,hypocritical Britainistani(formerly UK) police would never do that and might even accuse me of being racist(although islam is not a race)or “islamophobic”(although pointing out anti-Semitic teachings in islam and its holy koran , is nothing of the sort)
BTW,Telemark..isn’t that were the famous “Heroes of Telemark” came from: a great WW2 movie based on the outstanding and true heroism of the resistance against Nazi tyranny?
Good to see the Spirit of the Heroes of Telemark still exists,only this time it is against religious Nazis and (as in ww2),Quisling politicians …
Richard Courtemanche says
Officers! Don’t knock on my door if you represent a Nazi regime.
Bill says
After following events for a while, it occurred to me that our leaders were not stupid, blind or ignorant. Rather, they were very clear about what they were doing — using Islam as a tool to breakdown western culture, religion and family structure as a precursor to globalist socialism ruled by the business and political elites that know better than the people. Sort of like the feudal monarchs, oligarchs and their supporting barons. Nothing else explains their behavior.
Now, upon further observation, it would seem that in Europe, the plan is proceeding apace. The police and judiciary are now fully weaponized against the citizenry. Government law enforcement is actually now operating on the side of Islam. They enforce special treatment of Islam (prayers in parks OK for muslims, banned for Christians). They cover up and do not prosecute crimes committed by muslims in the name of Islam or in furtherance of Islamic teachings or laws (no prosecutions, treatment of muslim assaults, murders and maimings, as a “mental illness”, light sentences, early releases, more restrictions like new knife controls aimed at the law-abiding) They aggressively seek out and silence by punishment or threat of punishment, anyone speaking the truth about Islam (everything from Speaker’s Corner, to arrest, detention and incarceration of those who would criticize Islam).
Citizens of Europe. It is time to recognize that your governments have actually taken sides with Islam against you. It is not merely ignorant, feckless or misguided. Those attributes are insufficient to explain what is going on.
You are the enemy of the government. The governments you elected are beyond your control. You are being targeted and oppressed by your governments. Next time Mr. Spencer publishes another story like this one, please think about my observations and decide for yourselves. Are you now the enemy of your own government?
PFFFF says
No,” both of them said. They were not at all embarrassed about it.
…One of them answered quickly. “We know that radical Muslims have misinterpreted the Koran.”
You cant make this stuff up.
They will not even read the Koran because it plainly says what the Left will never admit publicly.
Douglas J Light says
Great article, but the author is mistaken in one area: The Deep State in the US is by no means limited to Democrats. In Norway, I doubt it is limited to Labor.
WESTPAC Spy says
“…They suggested that he might want to sit down for a conversation with an Islamic scholar, who could clear up what they seemed determined to view as his misunderstandings…”
If the cops knocked on my door to interrogate me and then made the that offer, I would have responded that if I’m misunderstanding Islam, I’m misunderstanding in exactly the same way as about 50% of the 1.6 billion Muslims in the world are misunderstanding it. So please send this Islamic scholar to talk me out of my misunderstanding, and I can tell him exactly how he can disabuse me of my misunderstanding.
I’ll invite the Islamic scholar to go to Al Azhar University and tell them they’re misunderstanding Islam when their professors on staff say that it is legal to take non-Muslim women as sex slaves in war. Or invite them to go to Tehran where the women who took off their hijabs face 10 years in prison for, among other things, “incitement to prostitution”
Closer to home the Islamic scholar can preach at mosques all over Britain where you’ll hear Friday sermons (at least at some point during the year) that inform the flock that uncovered women are prostitutes who deserve to be raped. Then he can go to Mosques in places like Rotherham where we know Muslim rape gangs operated, and I hear still operate, and he can tell them, “No, you’re misunderstanding Islam” and he can tell them to stop raping little non-Muslim girls.
While he’s at it he can ask the Imams and Sheikhs running those Mosques what programs they have in place to prevent young Muslims from becoming radicalized i.e. to quite misunderstanding Islam.
Then maybe he can take his act on the road and travel to Stockholme, Cologne, Berlin, etc., and preach at Mosques to let the faithful know it’s wrong to commit gang rape and mass sexual assault. Islam doesn’t teach that such things are OK, and that they’re misunderstanding Islam.
Then I can shut up about Islam. That’ll solve everyone’s problems. What’d you say, officer friendly-who-is-not-the-thought-police?
Robin says
“If the cops knocked on my door to interrogate me”
But the cops DID NOT “knock on his door” or “interrogate” him. The picture here is totally misleading clap. Jihadwatch should be ashamed to indulge in fake facts as if the truth about the Mo pedo cult is not bad enough anyway. HE VISITED them for the friendly chat, they did not come to his house. People should be doing more of this civilised discussion as there, and less fake pictures as above (most likely breaking in to arrest a jihadist).
JawsV says
Yes, the cops came to Christian Finch’s door in Lancashire.
You don’t know what you’re talking about, Robin. April 4:
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2018/04/audio-uk-thought-police-claim-were-not-the-thought-police-as-they-harass-man-for-his-opinions-about-islam
And, don’t insult Robert Spencer if you don’t mind.
WESTPAC Spy says
Your criticism is inane. Yes, the cops called him to come down to talk to them. So what? I don’t see a difference between getting a phone call from the police asking me to come in or the police coming to me. One way or another, i’m going to have to answer intrusive questions.
Which is what the image you’re complaining about SYMBOLIZES.
Relax, Frances. Don’t take everything so literally.
Robin says
“I don’t see a difference between getting a phone call from the police asking me to come in or the police coming to me.”
That’s because you haven’t a clue. These people were NOT THE POLICE. They were not in the business of forcing anyone to do anything nor of investigating crimes. They were doing the Prevent (Counter-terrorism) process, which involves inviting people to VOLUNTARILY discuss their thoughts with them, in an attempt to stop them becoming terrorists. They invited him in for a friendly chat to present his point of view. They listened and asked intelligent questions. This was no “interrogation”, it was entirely voluntary part of the Prevent process. Unfortunately Mr Spencer delights in displaying his huge ignorance about the uk situation. Why not just stick to the facts which are a bad enough damnation of the pedo Mo anyway?
One way or another, i’m going to have to answer intrusive questions.
WESTPAC Spy says
I take it you missed this picture on the main page.
https://www.jihadwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/police-UK.jpg
Yes, they will knock on your door you benighted fool.
i
i take it you missed
i tae i
Robin says
“I take it you missed this picture on the main page.
https://www.jihadwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/police-UK.jpg”
But that picture has nothing whatsoever to do with that audio either. Spencer is just indulging in fake news here. This was a Prevent program discussion not a criminal investigation. Spencer is too wilfully ignorant to know about the Prevent program, the most important thing the uk regime is doing about Islam. Prevent is a VOLUNTARY thing where people are VOLUNTARILY invited in for a chat as happned there. Many Muslims strongly oppose Prevent (which is mainly targetted against potential Jihadists though they need to include “islamophobes” for good pc balance)..
Sadly Mr Spencer has turned into a raving paranoiac.
WESTPAC Spy says
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/operation-shelter-probe-offensive-comments-14143548
“Six people who left offensive comments on social media about the Operation Shelter sex gang have been tracked down by police.
Northumbria Police posted a series of articles on its Facebook page following the conviction of 18 people after an investigation into sex exploitation in Newcastle’s West End.
However, the force received a complaint after a number of comments were left on the page, referring to the race and religion of the perpetrators in the case.
An investigation was launched and police have now traced six people who were behind the posts deemed to be offensive and potentially criminal.
Officers have now spoken to these individuals and warned them about their behaviour.”
Again they will knock on your door. So now shut up.
gravenimage says
I have never seen Robin here before–but he or she seems fine with this Orwellian nightmare. Bawer makes it quite clear that law enforcement only acted as though they wanted his help initially–after that, they made it quite clear that this was an interrogation.
The idea that this was a friendly discussion with Finch is also absurd.
gravenimage says
Wow, WESTPAC Spy–now it is illegal to say anything critical about a *rape gang*? Insane.
JawsV says
Yes, they did knock on his door and interrogate him. Yes, they went to his house.
I believe the picture is from the 1966 movie “Fahrenheit 451.”
Robin says
No they did not go to his house. This can be clearly understood from the opening sentences.
They weren’t even police. They are the counter-terrorism squad doing the Prevent procedure. It is not about criminal charging it is about VOLUNTARY civilised discussion with people who they fear being radicalised. In this case the guy had said on facebook that it was ok that the MP Sara Cox had been killed. You seriously think if someone in US had facebooked that, that the actual police would not have bashed on his door? Whereas in uk they acted infinitely more civilised. They listened to his info. They DID NOT even THREATEN him with prosecution.
JawsV says
It’s Jo Cox. Not Sara. I also couldn’t care less about her demise as she was a huge facilitator of letting the Muslim hordes into the UK. She’s dead, since 2016. What does it matter if someone says that was OK? Big effing deal! I also think it’s fabulous that Hitler’s dead. Oh, come and get me! Oh, interrogate me! I might be becoming “radicalized!” What a joke! The UK is finished.
Robin says
“It’s Jo Cox. Not Sara.”
Yes, past my bedtime!
“I also couldn’t care less about her demise as she was a huge facilitator of letting the Muslim hordes into the UK.”
My own thoughts exactly. But it is surely understandable that Prevent officers wish to chat with him before something more exciting happens.
“The UK is finished.”
Speak for yourself. Readers of JW are sufficiently misinformed that their views aren’t worth the paper they’re not written on.
JawsV says
I’m not just speaking for myself, Robin. RS frequently opines that the UK is done. I agree. The Muslims have invaded and are taking over. The English are letting them. London has a Muslim mayor. The writing is on the wall. No, we’re not misinformed on JW. Perhaps it’s your view not worth the not paper.
gravenimage says
Robin wrote:
Speak for yourself. Readers of JW are sufficiently misinformed that their views aren’t worth the paper they’re not written on.
………………….
Well, he or she did not keep the mask on for long.
Yes, how *dare* the filthy Infidels at Jihad Watch stand for freedom of speech and oppose the horrors of Jihad?
Carolyne says
This interrogation reminds me of what I have read about the IRS questioning people who applied for a tax exempt status for their Conservative organization. One of the question I remember was, “When you pray, what do you pray for?” There were a number of similar questions. No one, including Lois Lerner, was ever prosecuted for this breach of the First Amendment.
And, as far as I know, we are not yet being questioned about our opinion of Islam and its migrants, I fear the time will come, just as in the report above.
Robin says
UK Court orders mosque to be demolished.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/feb/07/abbey-mills-east-london-mosque-to-be-demolished-after-high-court-ruling
Oh but that can’t be true because we already know that Islam is totally in control there….
gravenimage says
What absolute crap. The article Robin links to reads, “the ministry said its decision was based on ‘concerns that include local housing provision and conflict with the council’s local plan for the borough’”.
The idea that this incident means that–what?–the UK is opposing everything to do with Islam is ridiculous.
Robin says
“The idea that this incident means that–what?–the UK is opposing everything to do with Islam is ridiculous.”
No-one ever said that. Gravenimage appears to be so braindamaged that the only thing he can still do is argue with his own strawmen. Fact is a huge mosque was forced to be demolished. And in Dudley a megamosque was refused and the Jihadists forced to sell the land. This doesn’t quite exactly correspond with Robert Expert’s endless assertions about uk being “lost”.
JawsV says
Stop insulting people here you idiot Robin. You’re the one with brain damage. A Muslim, right? Who the heck cares if a mosk was demolished? GOOD RIDDANCE! All mosks in the West should be razed and the carriers of vile and evil Islam deported with their Jihad war manuals. Yes, the UK is done, esp Londonistan. Take your tirades and shove it!
gravenimage says
“Robin” appears to be concerned that Islam is facing even occasional obstacles in establishing itself in the UK.
See? Ignore all that rape and murder–a couple of Mosques faced zoning problems…
Schrödinger says
Quoi je pense?
Goodbye Ruby Tuesday is one of the Rolling Stones most poignant, beautiful songs. Perhaps it doesn’t have that much competition: the rest are just good old rock ‘n roll! Singing the virtues of an alluring, mysterious, free-spirited young woman — one with a lesson for us all — it also articulates an attitude of female dignity and autonomy that is the antithesis of Islam.
A principal feature of this so called religion is the subjugation and control of women. In anthropological terms, these aspects are essentially an extreme form of mate guarding. Islam’s as misogynist as it gets, designed particularly to deny women autonomy in reproductive matters. Men may arrange marriages, marry up to 4 women at any one time, easily divorce them (whereas for Muslim women divorce is next to impossible to initiate) and a wife may not refuse her husband’s demand for sex. A woman’s role is reduced to making babies and chapatis. And that’s before you get to “possessions of the right hand”. The Rolling Stones Under My Thumb comes to mind. But that’s not all.
Thanks to a biologist named Bill Hamilton and the mathematician Charles Price, by the swinging late 60’s the ever evolving Darwinian new synthesis reached a key insight that its the gene (probably) which is the key unit of the evolutionary process. Hamilton argued a gene’s success consisted in maximising copies of itself, either by begetting them or indirectly encouraging begetting by related individuals who shared the same gene/s. Hence the theory of kin selection. Furthermore, Price realised, and was able to show with his own equations, this also went a long way to explaining not only goodness and cooperation but also spite, murder, warfare and, interestingly, certain forms of suicide — all such behaviours increasing Darwinian fitness.
So not only do you have the religiously sanctioned inducement of Islam’s al Hijra immigration and invasions (aided and abetted by the foolish West) obviously supported by this theory. Mathematically, it can likely be demonstrated how further signature Islamic niceties as “Honour” killing, even “martyrdom” and so forth increase inclusive fitness.
Think of the fate of the Jews of the Arabian peninsula. Think of that of the Banu Qurayza tribe in particular. Muhammad sought to give religious sanction to behaviour little different to that of lions, who upon killing a rival pride’s male lion proceed to kill all its young cubs and bring the lionesses back into heat ASAP, enabling their genes to be reproduced and passed onto the next generation rather than a genetic rivals. Islam is the law of the jungle; it’s about as red in tooth and claw as human “society” gets. It wants to drag us all down, physically and mentally, and keep us there. It’s no wonder its dominant, preferred “colour” is black — black Hijabs, Burkas, flags, a black draped box enclosing a black meteor at its epicentre, the Black Hole Mecca. Islam Paints It Black. Yet its most dangerous, most “winning” aspect is probably an increased Darwinian fitness for the Muslim — both male and female. This needs to be understood, and opposed. No further Muslim immigration. Ideally, their forced emigration.
I’d like to think our species has at least some measure of free will, hence autonomy and responsibility for our behaviour. It certainly feels like we do. I presume God has free will. Endowed as we are with the gift of consciousness, perhaps we’re invested with at least some degree of free will as well. Let’s hope so. Let’s also hope we can manage what needs be done to rid our societies of the menace of Islam, as best it can be done.
Anyway Officer, pardon my French.
Linnte says
Thank God for George Orwell. Can you imagine if he had never written “1984” how unprepared we would be?
Also, what is the bell circled in red, that pops up on my screen when reading JW blog? Does anyone else have this bell?
Robin says
That red bell is to warn you that sometimes the information on JW is grossly untrue paranoia. Albeit certainly not always.
gravenimage says
Robin wrote:
That red bell is to warn you that sometimes the information on JW is grossly untrue paranoia.
……………..
What absolute crap.
JawsV says
graven, we’re dealing with a Muslim/a here (“Robin”).
gravenimage says
Certainly a Muslim apologist, Jaws. *Ugh*.
WESTPAC Spy says
I was talking about a hypothetical future incident involving me. Can you really be this dense. You keep moving the goalposts.
““They will knock on your door and lecture you.”
But NOT prosecute, as in this case and also the interview at top of page here.”
Here you are, out of the blue, adding “prosecute” into the mix. Reading comprehension is not your strong point, is it? I said they’d will knock on people’s door and lecture them. You agreed they will knock on people’s door. But where did prosecute come from? In your world is lecture the same as prosecution? In my original comment, the one you first objected to, I said if the police knocked on my door and made me the same offer to talk to an Islamic scholar to clear up my “misunderstanding” of Islam I laid out my response to that offer.
In your world, is offer the same as prosecute?
You seem to imagine you’re the smartest individual commenting here. In fact, you’re simply the master of logical fallacies. In particular the straw man fallacy and changing the subject.
I will no longer waste my time with your inanities. I simply wanted to give you enough rope to hang yourself. As I expected, you did. You stuck your head right into that noose.
My work here is done.
Robin says
“I simply wanted to give you enough rope to hang yourself.”
Indeed as these words of yours indicate, your obession here is with “winning” against me. I am only here to establish the truth.
“I simply wanted to give you enough rope to hang yourself.”
Indeed, as has wisely been observed before, one cannot win an argument against a fool or one who has no restraint from constantly adding ever more strawman falsehoods to his would-be-brilliant case.
Robin says
> “There is *nothing* “civil” about jailing people for being critical of Muslim child rape gangs, as the appalling “Robin” pretends. *Ugh*.”
Yet another ludicrous slanderous strawman falsehood from this timewaster here. A shame that the valuable freedom to post here ends up being so misused. I’m reading far more about what I supposedly “write” or “pretend” in the comments from these crazies than I have ever actually written in my own. Sadly JW seems to function as a therapeutic outlet for some individuals who are not up to having a real life outside of pseudonymous online fora. These nutcases even delude themselves that I am a muslim or pro-Muslim. Credibility anyone?
gravenimage says
How *dare* we “misuse” our freedoms? No fear of that if “Robin” has his or her way…
Arthur says
“Those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it.” –Edmund Burke
It’s getting to where modern events feel like re-runs from historical horror ‘shows’.
Not quite as fun as this, though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJZ2m6_T1wc
Lydia Church says
Uh, no we are not the ‘thought police.’ Now tell us what you were thinking, and if we agree, then no one gets hurt.
Welcome to Orwell’s world, now a reality!
Lydia Church says
That is another tactic, they tell you that you have a choice, as if they respect your consent. But then they keep pressuring you until you just agree. Or they try to intimidate you. Or pressure you in any other way.
Not the thought police? Then bye!
Not under arrest? Then SEE YA!
Certain ‘thoughts and opinions’ are illegal?
Well then let me answer them anyway:
What are your political beliefs? None of your business!
What do you think of Islam? It is an evil set of false beliefs. And I know that, no need for further info.
Do you hate Muslims? No, Christians are supposed to love their enemies.
Are you a racist? No. Are YOU a racist?
Are you a Nazi? No. But you are!
gravenimage says
We’re not the Thought Police. That being said, what are you thinking?
……………….
Bruce Bawer, thank you for confirming this insanity going on in Europe.
Lydia Church says
Doesn’t it feel like you woke up one day, as the leading character in a suspense thriller? And you feel like a detective, putting clues together, getting more information all the time? And it feels like you accidentally scraped off the covering from some strange object, and then you start trying to dig it out, only to find that it was only the tip of the iceberg that you stumbled upon? You marvel at how big this bad boy is? Suddenly you feel like you are a target for discovering it?
That may sound like the preface to a suspense thriller, but folks, this is reality that you have uncovered. It’s not fiction. But most are unaware of it nonetheless. It may seem like a huge burden, but it is a privilege to have the awareness that most do not. It should seem obvious, yes, we should not expect a pat on the back for recognizing it. But, consider how many are in denial and then… be grateful that you are aware.
Christian finch says
It’s not fake. It’s me in the audio and I’ll gladly be interviewed by anyone and attest to the truth of this audio. It was recorded at Chorley police station in Lancashire. Then uploaded by me to SoundCloud. I contacted Jihad watch and they have my email
gravenimage says
Thank you, Mr. Finch.
Robin says
Dear Christian, good to hear from you here. I have been trying for several days to explain to various etc here that they did not bash your door open then subject you to an interrogation under threat of prosecution.
But instead of any appreciation all my comments have had is constant accusations of being some sort of liar secretly trying to undermine the anti-islam efforts for which -I- certainly did get carrted off in handcuffs and locked up for 20 hours and with clear threats of imprisonment for a “hate”crime (in reality an outrightly malicious false accusation).
Well now you here confirm that indeed it was you who went to their place instead, and thus JW has been hugely misinforming here (as I was trying to explain). Some apology from the uncivil commenters here could be appreciated. And we also note that you have not been locked up or even charged with anything. Perhaps you could here clarify to the disinformed here that this was indeed the voluntary Prevent program and not about chaining you up on criminal charges.
Fellow-uk-islamophobe Robin (or “Robin” as the jokers here put it).
Jimbo says
Robin,
bottom line here is that UK police are pathetic and are acting as thought police, wheter he went voluntarily or not. freedom of speech here is the issue. it ties in with the deals the EU made with the UN and Arabs countries over criticism of their beloved islam, disguised as hate speech laws. they are basically blaspheme laws. just like in 100% muslim countries punishable by death. you cant speak ill of islam. they want that in the West and are almost achieving it !
cleverly the regressive liberal retarded left have somehow managed to get these so called HATE speech laws passed. which do exactly what muslims want and are designed to do what the blaspheme laws do, that being shut down criticism of the beloved and wonderfully peaceful islam !! ( sarc).
these fools of police should be out chasing the 22,000 jihadis in the UK left to roam indiscriminately. !! and the nasty ISIS members allowed back in to the UK ( my god the idocy!!@!!). And stop harassing ppl on the right like this guy & the 3 recently not let into the UK b/c they were anti islam: Lauren Southern, Brittany and her boyfriend !!!
not to mention the 5 yr ban on one Robert Spencer and Pam Geller. what were they banned for – running opposing ( ie – truthful) views on islam !! nope cant have that in the UK.
UK is a meme.
gravenimage says
“Robin” here pretending that he is going to get support from Mr. Finch that this was only a nice chat is just silly.
Jimbo says
its just possible this interviewee may have actually educated these dimwit dhimmis officers on Islam. cant believe how polite he was to the filthy ‘thought police’. just pathetic. UK is just a meme as of now.