Ramadan Day 15 thought for the day from my new book The History of Jihad:
The influential Islamic jurist Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya, who died in 1350 in the Abbasid capital of Damascus, explained the Islamic view of synagogues and churches:
Those who are of the opinion that to pray in a church or synagogue is loathsome also say that they are places of great infidelity and polytheism. Indeed, their loathsomeness is greater than that of bathhouses, cemeteries or dunghills since they are places of Divine Wrath…. Moreover, are they not the houses of the enemies of Allah, and Allah is not to be adored in the houses of his enemies…?
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St. Manuel II Palailogos says
Love and peace.
Andy says
“Baruch HaShem”
Lydia Church says
The mosques are loathsome and so is islam!
Carol the 1st says
Muslims have more experience of cemeteries and dunghills. And now we can guess what really happens in those bathhouses.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
when and how Jésus became Godman and begotten son of God ?
gravenimage says
The problem, of course, is that pious Muslims like Ibrahim itace muhammed are perfectly willing to murder Christians and other Infidels for their peaceful beliefs.
Wellington says
“when {sic} and how Jesus became Godman {sic} and begotten son of God?”
When and how, Ibrahim, did an illiterate, psychopathic, narcissistic, overall fraudulent, pedophiliac, 7th-century Arab bandit raider and rapist become the “last and greatest of the prophets?”
See, two can play this game.
And, btw, I’ll take Jesus over Mohammed as the better man by far. Infinitely so. No contest whatsoever.
Andy says
Cheers Wellington,Thanks for the great comments and sorry for my behavior to you a few months ago.
Sincere apologies to you,
Andy
Wellington says
Long forgotten. Take care, Andy.
Max says
Jesus loves everyone, regardless. Mohammed hated everyone that didn’t submit to his violent and godless religion.
Conclusion: One is the son of God. The other one was a disgusting individual.
gravenimage says
Great post, Wellington.
Save Europe says
Godman? Once again you prove your asinine mentality by using made up non English language words. You have proved how much you hate all non Muslims with continuous verbal diarrhoea on this site. Time for you to fornicate off, frankly!
mortimer says
No, SE, let him talk so people can read and OBSERVE the WARPED IRRATIONALITY of Islam.
Elisha says
Why are you so afraid to read the Bible? Muslims believe that Jesus wasn’t crucified (contrary to EVERY serious historical scholar based on evidence) so they MUST hold that He was sentenced to death. Why was He sentenced to death? BLASPHEMY!
For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. – John 5:18
The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” – John 10:33
The Jews answered him, “We have a law, and by that law He ought to die because He made Himself out to be the Son of God.” – John 19:7
Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.” – John 17:5
Are we learning yet? Tell me, if Christianity is “false”, why did your allah start Christianity by “deceiving people to believe He was crucified”?
FYI says
I believe St Patrick compared the Trinity to a three leaved shamrock.
3 leaves together in one:certainly not a 3-separate god polytheistic system as allah and his muslims think it is.
What is funny{..and it really makes me laugh when I read the “perfect” koran..} is that allah has absolutely NO IDEA what the Holy Spirit is…because he denies the Trinity
koran 4 v 171;he simply cannot fathom the theology behind it.
alalh doesn’t know what the Holy Spirit is!
The Holy Spirit is that aspect of God through which ALL scripture and prophecy comes from:it is not found of course in the koran because allah…..doesn’t believe in it!But it is found everywhere in the Bible in all Biblical prophecies.
“For no prophetic message ever came just from the will of man,but men were under the control of the Holy Spirit as they spoke the message that came from God”
2 Peter 1 v 21
But allah does not know what it is:that explains WHY the koran is full of theological errors and WHY islamic “prophecy” is completely bogus.I mean if allah and his muslims understood prophecy ,they would stay well away from Israel{God has promised catastrophe in the Book of Joel 3 to the enemies of Israel who might wish to destroy it..}
The fact that allah in his “perfect” koran{like the fact that he completely missed those all important 2 chief commandments}doesn’t know what the Holy Spirit is …is ludicrous.
It really cracks me up with laughter when I read the koran to see such errors..It’s like a maths teacher insisting a square has 3 sides and a triangle has the exact same shape as a circle.
HugoHackenbush says
Here you go Ibrahim: https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/how-jesus-became-god.html
I can’t WAIT for their upcoming course on how a pedophilic hallucinating psychopath became a standard of behavior for ~1.6 billion people. I expect the course to arrive at about the same time as all the land masses rejoin each other.
boakai ngombu says
itace, if you ask these questions with intent to learn something, you might enjoy what the Christians have decided the Bible teaches about what you ask:
your questions pertain to the Holy Trinity: … from the Athanasian Creed …
… The Father is not made nor created nor begotten by anyone. The Son is neither made nor created, but begotten of the Father alone. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son, neither made nor created not begotten, but proceeding. Thus, thee is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits. And in this Trinity none is before or after another; none is greater or less than another; but the whole three persons are coeternal with each other and coequal …
… [Christians] believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is at the same time both God and man. He is God, begotten from the substance of the Father before all ages; and He is man, born from the substance of His mother in this age: perfect God and perfect man, composed of a rational soul and human flesh; equal to the Father with respect to His divinity, less than the Father with respect to His humanity. …
the serious question humans must ask is WHY, not, HOW. The Holy Scriptures do not give a HOW that we can understand, only that the Holy Spirit worked.
WHY has to do with LIFE.
from what you have said before i gather that you are more concerned with WHAN at this point in time. but people change….
boakai ngombu says
excuse … mispelling ….WAHN…
CrusadeofChrist says
How and when did God become God? When you answer that, you will have answered your own question. Put your faith to the test. Ask questions you have been told you cannot ask of your faith, then your heart and soul will be ready for the truth.
Jayell says
i’vw never come across that tern ‘Godman’ before. It seems like our friend Mr.Muhammed has just made it up because it sounds like it should be a cartoon comic character. The correct term is ‘Son of God’, which as far as I am concerned is shorthand for ’embodies the spirit of God’ as any ‘son’ might inherit the characteristics of his father. There are other characters in history who have reached such a high level of perfection in their fields that they seem to ’embody’ that attribute, but with Jesus of Nazareth the evidence of his conduct and teaching seems to suggest that he was able to transcend his human trappings and get a ‘God’s eye’ view of things to such a unique degree as to make him historically exceptional. Now, let’s compare him with this other ‘model of perfection’ called Mohammed, whom evidence suggests rather preferred to wallow in the trappings of humanity rather more like your typical power-hungry politician/oligarch with the added bonus that there were no forces of law and order to curb his megalomaniac sense of social and material entitlement and depraved criminal tendencies. So he could con all and sundry into believing whatever he chose to claim for himself with the knowledge that he and his ‘associates’ could use their Al Capone- or Reggie Kray-style powers of persuasion to ‘put people right’ whilst relieving them of their goodies – or else there might not be much left of people to ‘put righr’. Clearly this must be Mr.Muhammed’s idea of the ‘perfect man’ and looking at the evidence of Sweden, Germany, Belgium, Rotherham, etc. etc. one can see that people like Mr. Muhammed see themselves as the beneficiaries of the same sort of entitlement as Al Capone’s cronies in Chicago and the Kray twins’ cronies in the East End. But do me a favour, Mr Muhammed, and just leave God out of it.
boakai ngombu says
itace has replaced a shortening of Son of God/Son of Man to God/Man [divine and human natures of the Christ] to his replacement: Godman.
Januk36 says
If “allah” is the greatest schemer and almighty he may have deceived YOU and you will never know.
Eur says
If you are interested in the mystery … ask a theologian or go to a priest.
In matters of faith, logic does not always have a place. By the same rule of three I can ask you for the very existence of God. Give me scientific and empirical evidence of the existence of Alah.
Whether Jesus is God himself or a prophet as Islam says … be sure of one thing: Muhammad (if he existed) was a military leader, a murderer, a pedophile, a thief, a slaveholder and above all … a tyrant. Jesus (if he existed) was a good person.
In either case the result is the same … Muhammad was a bad person and can not be an example of absolutely nothing good. If you eliminate Muhammad from Islam … what is left? An absurd copy of Judaism and Christianity.
Islam was created as a Jewish sect adapted to the Arab culture of that time.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
EuR, Godman (jesus having substance and human) and begotten son of God (came from substance of God) were paganic from mithraism
gravenimage says
What rot–this has nothing to do with mithraism. Why is Ibrahim itace muhammed so ignorant? Wait…don’t answer that…
Buraq says
@ Ibe itace mohamed
Listen carefully, Ibe. You might learn something. YOU are someone’s son. YOU might also be someone’s father. YOU might be someone’s brother. YOU might be someone’s uncle. So, although YOU are a single individual, you could be known by many people as a father, a son, an uncle, a brother, etc …..
So, what’s the problem with God the father, God the son, and God the Holy Ghost? These are three attributes of the same Being.
It’s not rocket science, habibi!
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Buraq, True jesus never taught that he has substance of God and human or he came from substance of God as begotten son. It is pagan idea from mithraism.
boakai ngombu says
itace, Jesus taught in many ways.
What do you think he taught in [ Matthew 17: 1-13; Mark 9:2-13 ; Luke 9: 28-36]?
gravenimage says
No, this has nothing to do with mithraism.
And for Ibrahim itace muhammed and all other pious Muslims, “true Jesus” is “Isa”, who is not the Savior, a healer, or a peacemaker, but whose main role is to “slaughter Christians*.
Gjallarhornet says
The question is not that, it is ‘When are you going to covert to the mithraist cult?’. Hail evil Mithras!
blitz2b says
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
“..when and how Jésus became Godman and begotten son of God?..”
To answer your question, first we determine referencing the Koran, who Jesus actually is.
4:171 “…the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a Spirit from Him;…”
So, unbeknownst to the author, here we have the declaration of the Triune God in the Koran.
Jesus Christ is the only one even on the Koran to be called the “Word” ….
Now what exactly does it mean being the word of God? We turn to the Bible…
John1″… In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made….”
The definition is “pertaining to being the only one of its kind or class, unique in kind.” The monogenic relationship between the Father and son is nor biological like the Koran incorrectly insinuates, but rather the Son is unique.
So Jesus never ever ” became” God, but the Son simply assumed a human nature and came to earth fire the salvation of mankind…
Hope this helps
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Blitz, “word”in Quran 4:171means word of command from God “BE” and jesus became, not that the word was God with as stated in mithraist Bible in John, which is a lie.
boakai ngombu says
that’s what the Koran says and that book means there: that Jesus was created – according to the Koran. BUT, the notion that Jesus was created is false.
… by the way, when this happened (according to the Koran), Jesus was thus “made” without sin, since you think that the allah god is without sin, so Jesus was made righteous …. even in the Koran Jesus is the Holy One and without sin (not a single slip, unlike like muhammad, who needed cleansing two times, three times …).
but the Bible teaches something much more important. Jesus (Son of God) existed as begotten from eternity. the Father and the Holy Spirit also existed from eternity. the glory equal, the majesty coeternal. from the aforementioned creed of the Christians: “… there are not three Eternals, but one Eternal”
John’s word about Jesus is TRUE, that word being inspired by the Holy Spirit. the references i provided you above in your 4:29 p.m. comment show something wonderful and are a witness to TRUTH regarding Jesus..
this whole matter is a mystery; it is beyond our ability to explain.
from my perspective, itace, you are truly wahn and are not well guided. the koran and sunna are too worldly, not filled with wisdom, only much hate. knowledge of what Jesus is, does, and will do, is gathered by having faith in the Biblical record. the Holy Spirit works with and through the Word to grant faith … and forgiveness … and TRUE knowledge about Jesus.
Granddaddy says
In the beginning was the Word [Jesus], and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He [Jesus] was in the beginning with God.
All things came to be through Him, and without Him nothing came to be which has come to be.
In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
And the light [Jesus] shines in the darkness [the World], and the darkness did not apprehend it.
John 1:1-5, EMTV
There is no correlation between Isa and Jesus. Even your Mary is not the same as ours,
They said, “O Maryam [Mary, mother of Isa]! Certainly you have brought an amazing thing. O sister of Harun [Aaron]!
The Glorious Quran 19:27-28
You cannot hope to understand God if you cling to the teachings of Islam.
J D S says
Yeah Granddaddy…and they even believe Mary had isa under a tree……and some “Mary” may have had a baby under a tree but this Mary was surely not the Mother of Jesus the baby born under that tree was not Jesus, the Christ…Why these people believe a 1400 hundred year old myth is beyond my reckoning.
don vito says
itace, I’m so glad you asked this question. You are on your to becoming a hypocrite or apostasy from the slavery of submission. Mozel Tov! Keep asking this question, and look for answers in God’s holy scriptures. You, itace, don’t have to murder or die to find the answer, I asked myself similar questions, which started me on a journey from an atheist, to a life of salvation. One piece of advice, you won’t find your answer in the cayron. Look for answers elsewhere. I do wish you luck and may God’s blessing be showered on you through the Lord’s holy blood.
J D S says
Ibrahim …Unless you have fear to do Then just read the only true word of God found in the Holy Bible…….it’s there for all to see..
Guy Forester says
In other words, expect churches and synagogues to be targeted by the followers of the religion we dare not name. Oh, wait, they already are in numerous countries, even those that claim to have full religious tolerance for all faiths.
Deacons and church elders should be advised to prepare to act appropriately as the situation demands.
gravenimage says
Yes–it is getting worse, and there will be more and more of these attacks in the West.
Andy says
That is why we need leaders like TRUMP now at this time in all western Judeo-Christian Civilization Countries!
Trump just gave his most nationalistic speech since Poland: HIGHLIGHTS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4NZhDPpMVI
Schrödinger says
Perhaps it would be altogether too flattering to compare mosques to either cemeteries or dunghills. Whatever their architectural merits and historical significance may be — and they obviously have both — Islam itself is loathsome.
CogitoErgoSum says
Here are a few of the “loathsome” places marked for destruction by the Muslims. They won’t stop at just churches and synagogues either. Temples and shrines of other religions will disappear as well. So what were people thinking when they built these places? Not the same thing that Muslims are thinking, that’s for certain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g98lLMyLuuA
Andy says
THE EU PLAN TO DESTROY THE INTERNET. ARTICLE 13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r23tTxxQPKQ
gravenimage says
Islamic jurist: “Loathsomeness” of churches and synagogues “greater than that of cemeteries or dunghills”
……………………
There is nothing pious Muslims hate so much as the concept of a loving God–the very opposite of the vicious “Allah”.
mortimer says
The Turks sure took over the ‘LOATHESOME’ Byzantine churches in a hurry and transformed them into mosques.
gravenimage says
All too true…
Lebel says
To be fair, we should also mention that for Maimonides, churches were also considered houses of idol worship and jews were forbidden from entering them.
Of course we are not fair and will only mention selected Muslim jurists.
gravenimage says
Nowhere did Maimonides say that churches are worse than dunghills.
And Lebel is well aware that this sort of thing is the basis for Muslims attacking churches and murdering worshipping Christians.
Jews have never done any such things, of course.
But, as he has said before, Lebel considers noticing this about Islam to be “unfair”.
mortimer says
Lebel, you know that TODAY TOP MUSLIM CLERICS are still making such comments, whereas other TOP CLERGY of other faiths DO NOT SAY SUCH THINGS.
How much SHARIA law is good for you, Lebel, or have you becoming a MURTAD?
Lebel says
Yes, it’s true that SOME muslim clerics say such things. I never denied this.
Here is what I am saying: just because SOME muslims say such things does not mean they are right. You are saying the exact opposite.
gravenimage says
The Qur’an and other texts of Islam are full of condemnation of the Infidels as “unclean”, as Lebel well knows.
Infidels are “Najis”, just like excrement:
https://www.sistani.org/english/book/48/2132/
mortimer says
LEBEL, here is the MODERN QUOTE I was looking for:
On Monday, March 12th, 2012, the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, Sheikh Abdul Aziz bin Abdullah – Saudi Arabia’s supreme religious official – created a stir when he stated that it is “necessary to destroy all the churches of the region.”
ISLAM IS BIGOTRY, you see, Lebel. You do see that.
gravenimage says
Good post, Mortimer.
Giacomo Latta says
Actually, it is racism. Muslims and their Leftist friends are trying to confound religion and race as much as they can so they can spit out the word ‘racism’ as often as they can when in fact any criticism of Islam is a criticism of hate-based ideas. But if according to these Muslims any bad-mouthing of Islam is racism then their bad-mouthing of Christianity, polytheism or atheism must be racist talk as well. Not that they won’t try to have it both ways, of course.
Lebel says
Can you send me a legit link on this please?
Legit means well-known and respected newspaper/media outlet OR original source.
gravenimage says
Here you go:
“Sheikh Abdul Aziz Bin Abdullah, Saudi Islamic Leader, Says Churches Should Be Destroyed”
A Saudi Islamic leader has drawn sharp condemnation from religious figures after he said that all churches in the Arabian Peninsula should be destroyed.
CBN News reports that Saudi Arabia’s highest Islamic authority, Sheikh Abdul Aziz Bin Abdullah, made the inflammatory comments in response to a question from a Kuwaiti delegation which asked about a Kuwaiti parliamentarian’s call to get rid of all churches there.
Abdullah said it is “necessary to destroy all the churches in the region. There are not to be two religions in the [Arabian] Peninsula.”
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/02/sheikh-abdul-aziz-bin-abdullah-says-churches-should-be-destroyed_n_1398157.html
Surely Lebel is not going to pretend that the Huffington Post is “Islamophobic”, is he?
And, of course, the Sheikh was just quoting the “Prophet” of Islam here regarding there being no religon save Islam in the Arabian peninsula.
CogitoErgoSum says
Lebel, apparently there is some debate among scholars that the family of Maimonides converted to Islam and that he spent his early years as a Muslim. Even if his family did just feign conversion to Islam to avoid harassment by the Muslims of Spain and Morocco, I’d say his way of thinking was greatly influenced by his exposure to Islam and its doctrines, traditions and culture. So let’s do mention Maimonides. See the link below:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/30/AR2008123002789.html?noredirect=on
mgoldberg says
Actually he said and wrote several opinions. Understand that jews were under the thumbs of both Christianity, and Islam, and neither were generous and it was under this that we can read the ideas of the great jewish commentator. Basically, bother Christianity and Islam were seen as false expressions but would lead the world to the understanding one day to the idea of the creator of the universe, the world, the ideas of the Torah, and Judaism. He wrote…”“All those words of Jesus of Nazareth and of this Ishmaelite [i.e., Muhammad] who arose after him are only to make straight the path for the messianic king and to prepare the whole world to serve the Lord together. As it is said: ‘For then I will change the speech of the peoples to a pure speech so that all of them shall call on the name of the Lord and serve him with one accord’ (Zephaniah 3:9).”
Again, back to the theme of living under the thumb of christiandom and Islam: the thoughts of such as Maimonides was how to live under that rule rather than martyring themselves. It is a more complicated
issue than others would have us believe but that’s the keystone idea.
don vito says
lebel you do not believe in fairness, from what I’ve read of your posts here. You post about conspiracy theories about Mr. Spencer.
tedh754 says
You know, if I were satan and wanted to lead people away from Christ, I would have written a “book” that said that Jesus was only a man, and appeared to a “prophet” and said I was Gabriel and “here you go. Go forth and slaughter.
somehistory says
The barracks that moslims use to call down evil on Jews and Christians are too unclean even for canines to use as a toilet.
These fools must sit around all day using what brains they posses to think up much evil, and insulting things to say, while imagining they will receive a reward.
“It’s better to be a live dog than a dead lion.” (King Solomon)
It’s better to be dead in a cemetery than to be alive in a moslim barracks.
Lydia Church says
Speaking of ramadan, I was driving down a main street in a big city the other day and guess what I see? You know how they have these banners that say things from some city lamps or across a street? Well this one was green, had a white crescent and star and said ‘ramadan’! Of course I complained to the city officials. Yet if there are any real Christian holiday signs, all the atheists get up in arms! If it is anything more intense than ‘happy holidays’ and ‘joy,’ oh boy, look out! Now they need to have a “happy Easter” sign, a “Merry Christmas” sign, and a nativity scene or a risen Jesus! I’ll be on their case about that, or hang one up myself!
boakai ngombu says
thanks for complaining to officialdom. hopefully many did
actually a sign isn’t needed to inform people that the slaves (muslims) of the allah god of islam (unknowable; the best of all deceivers) will be cranky because of their fasting.
gravenimage says
Disgusting, Lydia. What city was this?
WPM says
The most hardcore atheist {the ones making noise in government to make a name for themselves} latch onto their personal “crusade” to erase anything Christian or Jewish from public display .they do this to think they are spreading their beliefs in “nonbelief” in God. They know Christian and Jews have broad shoulders when it comes to their faith and do not get upset if others do not believe ,they are generally nonviolent ,and ready to debate their position in a logical civilized manner. Islam is non-logical and uses violence to solve all its disputes the typical hardcore atheist in government is a coward when Islam want to put their “full fig” of religion on display blocking public streets with pray, pre-dawn call for pray, banners, violating zoning laws for building Mosques in areas churches or Temples could not be built.
FYI says
A mosque(unlike a synagogue or Church) is not dedicated to the True Biblical God:it is dedicated to “allah” the deceiver.
allah the god of hate.
The muslim “prays” 5 times a day to this false god “allah”.
a god who CURSES Jews and Christians koran 9:30
a god who happily encourages muslims to break God”s Commandments in his “holy” koran
a god who preaches hatred and violence{there are no 2 chief commandments in islam,remember}
On the other hand Jews and Christians,who are in the SAME Biblical fold{i.e both religions subscribe to the 10+2 laws of God:islam doesn’t}
pray to..
the God of the 2 chief commandments
the True God with the True Prophets{from Moses…….. to Jesus}
Jews pray in their synagogues to the God {of Moses,of the 2 chief commandments:A God of Love}
Judaism is based on the 10+2 commandment system.
Christians pray in their churches to the God{of Jesus Christ,of the 2 chief commandments:aGod of Love}
Christianity TOO is based on the 10+2 commandment system.
BUT in islam we have…
allah the god{of muhammed,warped equivocations of God’s laws and NO 2 chief commandments}
muslims “pray” in their mosques to a god who CURSES Jews and Christians,allah{of the “prophet” muhammed,who does NOT subscribe to the 2 chief commandments:NOT a god of Love}
And allah the deceiver{koran 3 :54} has his “prophet” who admitted to being FALSE..
“I have fabricated things AGAINST GOD and have imputed to him things he has not spoken”
al tabari 6:111
“thing he has not spoken”:that would be the commandment-of-God violating teachings of “allah”{or muhammed} in the “holy” koran
The islamic call to “prayer” is to a false god of murder and violence:a mosque is an affront to the True God of Moses as God is NOT honored or His laws respected in islam.
I’m afraid the loathsomeness… is in the Godless,demonic,spiritually vacuous mosques…dedicated to a god “allah” who is a gross misrepresentation of the True Biblical God{of Moses,of Jesus}
Tom says
Ah the Muslim version of living peacefully. Destroy all houses of worship, other than those of Islam, and peace shall be upon the land for there will only be Islam that is allowed to be worshipped.
That explains why the christians in Europe and elsewhere are appeasing the muslims. It’s all about their perception of survival.
Little do they realize that the crocodile that is Islam has a hunger for total control that continues no matter how much it is fed.
“An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.” Winston Churchill.
But eat him it most certainly will.
Lebel says
Firstly, thanks for a legit link. The book actually looks interesting and well researched.
I confess that initially I was going to dismiss your post as more blame-everything-on-Islam but this actually looks like an interesting question.
I would say that the Rambam opinion on Christianity is fairly widespread in Judaism. It is actually the logical position since Christ is not Messiah and therefore is an imposter. Moreover, deification of Jesus is. from the point of view of Judaism, necessarily idolatry.
I believe that jihadwatchers are very soft on such positions if they come from judaism but they harden immediately when Islam holds similar positions.
But actually the most interesting part of that link you sent was the following: “The Jewish position has been that Maimonides did not convert but rather engaged in “taqiyya” or dissimulation and, at most, lived as if he were a Muslim, something quite common of Jews in that perilous period. ”
Jewish taqqiya? finally some common sense about what this concept is all about: surviving in a hostile environment. Jews had to do it, Shiah had to do it, even crypto-christians did it.
gravenimage says
As I have noted here many times, Jews are not oppressing and slaughtering Christians based on religious differences as are Muslims.
As always, Lebel thinks that we should have to ignore this.
Lebel says
That’s true but I am referring to specific quotes. The entry by RS is not about killing but a quote by a Muslim jurist.
gravenimage says
It’s been provided, of course.
CogitoErgoSum says
Crypto-Christians? Yes, the early Christians kept their crosses hidden at first and used secret symbols like the fish for Christ. But they did not help sell tickets to the Colosseum … unless they were a part of the day’s big show. They never really bought into lying for their God but, yes, most of them did like living. Can’t really think of any Christian saints who are honored for their ability to lie to stay alive. Don’t think they have a word for that either. They just call it lying.
Carol the 1st says
+1
=
Lebel says
Some Christians think otherwise: Luther defended “a good hearty lie for the sake of the good and for the Christian Church, a lie in case of necessity, a useful lie”
Also, if you were hiding jews and Germans came and asked you if you were hiding jews, would you not lie to them? is that on the same level as other lies?
Buraq says
@ Lebel
Fools rush in where angels fear to tread, they say. And after reading your posts about lying, I can see you’re leading the gadarene rush!
Your own god, Allah, is described as the best deceiver there is! No wonder Islam is built on lies from the get go. To wit; an illiterate in a cave is yelled at by an angel and told to read – Iqra! Then Mohamed claims to have flown on a winged horse. Do you think this is all true, Lebel?
Finally, when Mohamed orders the murder of a critic, the killers say they’ll have to lie to allay the victim’s suspicions. He readily gives permission. And there is so-o-o-o much more!
I suspect, Lebel, that there isn’t a window left intact in the glass house you live in!
gravenimage says
Yes, while I cherish honesty, I would lie to the Nazis to save the Jews I have hidden in my attic.
Lebel pretending that this is the same as the “Prophet” Muhammed telling his assassins that they can lie to get close to their victims is just sickening–but not surprising.
Lebel says
By the way, there appears to be some exception in the bible as well:
https://worldlysaints.wordpress.com/2016/06/10/what-about-rahabs-lie/
Looks like it’s not all peaches and butterflies on the other side either.