Ramadan Day 13 thought for the day from my new book The History of Jihad:
Turkish President and would-be caliph Recep Tayyip Erdogan wants to turn the Hagia Sophia, now a museum in Istanbul, back into a mosque. But how did the Hagia Sophia become a mosque in the first place?
Today is the anniversary of an awesome tragedy. On May 29, 1453, Constantinople, once the greatest city in the Christian world, finally fell to the warriors of jihad, after they had tried to conquer it for seven hundred years. In my new book The History of Jihad From Muhammad to ISIS, I recount what happened then. Muslims raided monasteries and convents, emptying them of their inhabitants, and plundered private houses. They entered the Hagia Sophia, which for nearly a thousand years had been the grandest church in Christendom. The faithful had gathered within its hallowed walls to pray during the city’s last agony. The Muslims killed the elderly and weak and led the rest off into slavery.
The Byzantine scholar Bessarion wrote to the Doge of Venice in July 1453, saying that Constantinople had been
…sacked by the most inhuman barbarians and the most savage enemies of the Christian faith, by the fiercest of wild beasts. The public treasure has been consumed, private wealth has been destroyed, the temples have been stripped of gold, silver, jewels, the relics of the saints, and other most precious ornaments. Men have been butchered like cattle, women abducted, virgins ravished, and children snatched from the arms of their parents.
When the slaughter and pillage was finished, Mehmet II ordered an Islamic scholar to mount the high pulpit of the Hagia Sophia and declare that there was no God but Allah, and Muhammad was his prophet. The magnificent old church was turned into a mosque; hundreds of other churches in Constantinople and elsewhere suffered the same fate. Millions of Christians joined the ranks of the dhimmis; others were enslaved, and many were killed.
Click here to preorder The History of Jihad From Muhammad to ISIS, the only comprehensive one-volume history of jihad in the English language, including not just the jihad in Europe but in India, Africa and elsewhere, drawing primarily on accounts of eyewitnesses and contemporary chroniclers. Arm yourself with the truth against the prevailing disinformation. Preorder here now.
Nour says
The only historian who said that Muslims sacked the city was Philip Mansel, in his book, “Constantinople: City of the World’s Desire”
Also, quoting from Wikipedia:
“To encourage the return of the Greeks and the Genoese who had fled from Galata, the trading quarter of the city, Mehmed returned their houses and provided them with guarantees of safety. Mehmed issued orders across his empire that Muslims, Christians, and Jews should resettle in the City demanding that five thousand households needed to be transferred to Constantinople by September. From all over the Islamic empire, prisoners of war and deported people were sent to the city; these people were called “Sürgün” in Turkish (Greek: σουργούνιδες sourgounides; “immigrants”).
Mehmed restored the Ecumenical Orthodox Patriarchate (6 January 1454) and established a Jewish Grand Rabbinate (Ḥakham Bashi) and the prestigious Armenian Patriarchate of Constantinople in the capital, as part of millet system. In addition, he founded and encouraged his viziers to found, a number of Muslim institutions and commercial installations in the main districts of Constantinople, such as the Rum Mehmed Pasha Mosque built by the Grand Vizier Rum Mehmed Pasha. From these nuclei, the metropolis developed rapidly. According to a survey carried out in 1478, there were then in Constantinople and neighboring Galata 16,324 households, 3,927 shops, and an estimated population of 80,000. The population was about 60% Muslim, 20% Christian, and 10% Jewish.”
gravenimage says
The hideous Nour wrote:
The only historian who said that Muslims sacked the city was Philip Mansel, in his book, “Constantinople: City of the World’s Desire”
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What *absolute crap*.
Mehmed II had promised to his soldiers three days to plunder the city. According to the Venetian surgeon Nicolò Barbaro “all through the day the Turks made a great slaughter of Christians through the city”.
This was a *contemporary* account–and there are many others. The idea that no one ever said that Muslims sacked Constantinople until 1995 is absurd.
I myself read many accounts predating the publication of Mansel’s book.
Mehmet himself is reported to have said, “What a city we have given over to plunder and destruction.”
More:
Also, quoting from Wikipedia:
“To encourage the return of the Greeks and the Genoese who had fled from Galata, the trading quarter of the city, Mehmed returned their houses and provided them with guarantees of safety. Mehmed issued orders across his empire that Muslims, Christians, and Jews should resettle in the City demanding that five thousand households needed to be transferred to Constantinople by September. From all over the Islamic empire, prisoners of war and deported people were sent to the city; these people were called “Sürgün” in Turkish (Greek: σουργούνιδες sourgounides; “immigrants”).
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Why is Muslims flooding into the conquered city something Nour considers a good thing? Only because this is what she wants to see for *all* of our cities–Paris, London, New York. *Ugh*.
More:
Mehmed restored the Ecumenical Orthodox Patriarchate (6 January 1454) and established a Jewish Grand Rabbinate (Ḥakham Bashi) and the prestigious Armenian Patriarchate of Constantinople in the capital, as part of millet system. In addition, he founded and encouraged his viziers to found, a number of Muslim institutions and commercial installations in the main districts of Constantinople, such as the Rum Mehmed Pasha Mosque built by the Grand Vizier Rum Mehmed Pasha. From these nuclei, the metropolis developed rapidly. According to a survey carried out in 1478, there were then in Constantinople and neighboring Galata 16,324 households, 3,927 shops, and an estimated population of 80,000. The population was about 60% Muslim, 20% Christian, and 10% Jewish.”
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In other words, Muslims made sure that Christians and Jews would be outnumbered by their conquerors, and would henceforth always be treated as threatened second class citizens, who owed Jizya to their conquerors as well as tithes of slaves and women for the Harems. *Ugh*.
Note that there are only a handful of Christians and Jews who survive there today.
*This* is what the foul Nour want to see for all of us.
Nour says
Reply to: gravenimage
“Why is Muslims flooding into the conquered city something Nour considers a good thing? ”
If we are to talk garbage, then let’s judge the Islamic empire with one standard and all other empires with another.
If we are to talk history, then let’s judge all empires with the same standard.
The Romans, Persians, Mongols, Pharaohs … etc had their own conquests and wars of expansion.
Before the start of the 18th century, the world was divided into empires. Wars of expansion were not illegitimate as empires did not have legally defined borders, nor did they have internationally agreed-upon norms of coexistence and diplomatic relations.
Muslims played the empire game like anybody else when that game was the only available means of survival.
Tell me: What did bring the Romans (who are Europeans) to Syria and Egypt? Wasn’t it the Romans who destroyed the Jews in Jerusalem? And that was centuries before the Islam started.
JawsV says
Due to Jihad Islam cannot be judged by the “same standard” as others.
gravenimage says
More from the vicious Nour:
Reply to: gravenimage
“Why is Muslims flooding into the conquered city something Nour considers a good thing? ”
If we are to talk garbage, then let’s judge the Islamic empire with one standard and all other empires with another.
If we are to talk history, then let’s judge all empires with the same standard.
The Romans, Persians, Mongols, Pharaohs … etc had their own conquests and wars of expansion.
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Nour was pretending that we should somehow consider this a *mitigating factor*–but, clearly, it is anything but.
More:
Before the start of the 18th century, the world was divided into empires. Wars of expansion were not illegitimate as empires did not have legally defined borders, nor did they have internationally agreed-upon norms of coexistence and diplomatic relations.
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The Qur’an and the model of the “Prophet” are considered good for all time–not up until the beginning of the 18th century. Does Nour believe that it would be wrong for Muslims to invade, conquer, and slaughter Infidels now? I doubt it–especially since she did not bother to address that part of my comments.
More:
Muslims played the empire game like anybody else when that game was the only available means of survival.
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The idea that Muslims were forced to invade and conquer huge swaths of the then-known world in order to survive is just laughable.
Do Muslims have to go on conquering us?
The truth is that Muslims began threatening the Byzantine Empire during the life of the “Prophet”–it took them seven hundred years to destroy Byzantium.
More:
Tell me: What did bring the Romans (who are Europeans) to Syria and Egypt? Wasn’t it the Romans who destroyed the Jews in Jerusalem? And that was centuries before the Islam started.
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We’ve seen this sort of thing before–is Nour really standing up for Jews? Does she reject the idea of their being “apes and pigs”? Does she reject the Hadith where Muslims are told to murder all Jews?
Somehow I really doubt it…
HugoHackenbush says
“Tell me: What did bring the Romans (who are Europeans) to Syria and Egypt?”
Well, there’s the aqueduct…
Keys says
Nour, you have gone from wanting readers to believe that these muslims were benevolent to non-muslims:
…“Mehmed issued orders across his empire that Muslims, Christians, and Jews should resettle in the City demanding that five thousand households needed to be transferred to Constantinople by September.”…
to arguing that these muslims were no worse than others barbarians in history:
“If we are to talk history, then let’s judge all empires with the same standard. The Romans, Persians, Mongols, Pharaohs … etc had their own conquests and wars of expansion.“
How can anyone believe any of your posts, when you want readers to believe that Mohammad, who you are to emulate, or Islam itself, is beneficent ?
The life of Mohammad, written by muslims themselves, the Koran, and Mohammadan history show otherwise to any fair observer.
The Istanbulian says
So Nour if we are going to set standards; the Turks should go back to Central Asia and the Arabs back to Arabis as the French left Indochine for France, the Belgians Congo for Belgium, the English everywhere for England and all the other European empires in the 20th century.
Also, since it is fine for the oppressed of European ancestors to rise up and overthrow their imperial overlords; I am sure you are happy for the Copts, Berbers, Judeans, Kurds, Yazidis and all the others you have colonized, islamicized, and culturally genocided to rise up against the still present Islamic empires.
And if playing the game like everyone else is ok; than Israel is more than acceptable because Pakistan is more than acceptable and that Turks can conquer and hold Constantinople and the Hagia Sofia (which is now islamicized), than you must be fine with the contemporary Hebrews who reconquered and are holding and reJudaizing Jerusalem.
Karen says
Nour says: “If we are to talk history, then let’s judge all empires with the same standard. The Romans, Persians, Mongols, Pharaohs … etc had their own conquests and wars of expansion.“
Wouldn’t you expect a religious empire to act a little better than the Romans or the Mongols?
Johannes says
Romans were not Europeans, as Europe did not exist in Romans time as a cultural unity. Syria and Egypt were mostly Greek speaking countries, with Syriac and Coptic culture respectively, and Romans never thought to impose a different language and culture. All these rich cultures were oppressed and nearly destroyed by Arab muslims. By the way, the so called “Muslim golden age” of X and XI century had been mostly a Christian Syriac and coptic golden age. When Christain minorities almost disappeared, also culture, art and critical thinking also disappeared. They were the richest, most learned and progressive part of ancient word, and the Islamic conquest stopped their development. Like Anatolia, Costantinople and all the countries that fall under Quranic domination.
J D S says
Muslims, when they were an empire, were murdering, raping, enslaving, stealing, lying,and doing the most atrocities acts only done by those who have no respect for other religions……Nothing has changed, except they don’t have the vast armies they had then so not only are they continuing the edicts of their pedophile so called prophet, muhammad (if he ever existed..NO HISTORICAL PROOF) they are now using ever underhanded thing they can come up with to follow other Muhammad’s edicts, everything from population explosion to trying to place their people in elected, appointed and work force placed positions using and the freedom of religion against their host countries.
Golem2 says
Muslims flooding into any place has been shown by history to be a bad thing
Eur says
And who denies the barbarities committed by the Romans, the medieval European, French, English, Spanish kingdoms in America and everywhere else … ????? We all agree that these massacres, looting … existed. We have written books, films about all this, the self criticism is healthy. However Muslims justify conquests, Islamic raids. They always talk about defensive war when it is evident that history was not like that. In addition to the killings, looting, rapes, slavery … the difference is that Islam justifies those actions, that is the big problem. And not only that … Islam does not allow criticism, it mixes history with religion and, as if religious texts reflect history. It’s ridiculous, dangerous and it’s a threat.
Any Christian admits that the church allowed, encourage and exercised barbarities… Muslim don’t do this things. Muslims always justify the atrocities committed in the name of their religon. Religion as a political system is a tool of oppression and social control… and Islam is the perfect tool. It does not allow freedom of conscience, individual freedom, freedom of thought… and if someone exercises it… this one is punished. Islam =theocracy.
Karen says
Superb reasoning, excellent argument, Eur.
b.a. freeman says
Nour, of *course* the muslims played the empire game, the same game that other empires played; nobody says they didn’t. the problem is that the game is hard-coded into islamic scriptures, which means that such monstrous behavior can *never* end. victorious muslim armies will *always* pillage and rape, take slaves, steal everything of any possible value, and do everything possible to destroy the culture of the conquered land. the vile behavior will be with us as long as islam exists, because the cult of islam is a vile 7th-century cult of what is now considered, by civilized people (i.e., anybody who is *not* muslim, although some MINOs are civilized in spite of the cult), to be barbarous, nasty, genocidal, hateful, criminal behavior. it can *NEVER* *CHANGE*.
so do tell; how is islam peaceful? it has been a bad day so far, and i need a good belly laugh.
Nour says
Reply to gravenimage
“is Nour really standing up for Jews? Does she reject the idea of their being “apes and pigs”? Does she reject the Hadith where Muslims are told to murder all Jews?”
If Islam orders Muslims to “murder all Jews”, then I don’t think David Wasserstein, professor of Jewish History at Vanderbilt university, would write an article titled: “Islam Saved Jewry. A Historical Truth”. Wasserstein, says: “Had Islam not come along, Jewry in the west would have declined to disappearance and Jewry in the east would have become just another cult”
If you, white Christians followed Islam’s rules of conduct, the Red Indians as well as the people of Maya and Inca would still be alive today.
During the Spanish colonization of South America, the people of Inca were destroyed after their king, Atahualpa, rejected Christianity.
“Does she reject the idea of their being “apes and pigs”?”
One could fall into serious misconceptions if he or she picks a word out of context such as “Jews as pigs”, and jump to the conclusion that the Quran describes all Jews alone, past and present, as pigs, and then proceed to make three further jumps: The Quran is racist, Arab Muslims (who are mainly Semite) are anti-Semitic, and, finally, Islam is a violent anti-peace doctrine.
In the verse which gives the meaning of:
{Say: Shall I inform you of (him who is) worse than this in retribution from Allah? (Worse is he) whom Allah has cursed and brought His wrath upon, and of whom He made apes and swine, and he who served the Shaitan; these are worse in place and more erring from the straight path.} (Al-Maidah 5:60)
The meaning of the word swine (or pigs in other translations) should be explained in the context of the complete verse. Similarly, the verse should be interpreted in the context of the whole chapter (surah), and the whole issue should be understood in the framework of the whole Book (Quran) and the message (Islam). Further, one should be fully aware of historical facts and be alerted of common (forcibly publicized) stereotypes.
The reference in the verse is obviously to some who acted in a mischievous manner towards God, His messages, and Messengers. The rationale behind cursing some for their sinful stances and deeds could be gradually unfolded if you read through the preceding verses which give the meaning of:
{O you who believe! do not take for guardians those who take your religion for a mockery and a joke, from among those who were given the Book before you and the unbelievers; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah if you are believers. And when you call to prayer they make it a mockery and a joke; this is because they are a people who do not understand. Say: O followers of the Book! do you find fault with us (for aught) except that we believe in Allah and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed before, and that most of you are transgressors?} (Al-Maidah 5:57-59)
The words “monkeys and pigs” here are not to scold or revile these persons; rather, they express condemnation of their deeds.
They do not condemn a specific race or a whole race, but only those whose mentality and conduct are as described. So, it is their deviation from the proper divine guidance that makes such individuals deserve to be turned into monkeys (behaving thoughtlessly) and pigs (neither bashful nor shy of wicked acts).
The deviations and blunders for which they deserved such severe descriptions are not only those referred to in chapter five (Al-Maidah) of the Quran, but are expounded in more details in chapter two (Al-Baqarah). Further examples can be traced in other scattered locations of the Quran, from which you can form a long list.
gravenimage says
The vile Nour wrote:
Reply to gravenimage
“is Nour really standing up for Jews? Does she reject the idea of their being “apes and pigs”? Does she reject the Hadith where Muslims are told to murder all Jews?”
If Islam orders Muslims to “murder all Jews”, then I don’t think David Wasserstein, professor of Jewish History at Vanderbilt university, would write an article titled: “Islam Saved Jewry. A Historical Truth”. Wasserstein, says: “Had Islam not come along, Jewry in the west would have declined to disappearance and Jewry in the east would have become just another cult”…
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So Nour is now lying abou this Sahih Hadith?
“The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree,would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews.”
Sahih Muslim, 41:6985, see also Sahih Muslim, 41:6981, Sahih Muslim, 41:6982, Sahih Muslim, 41:6983, Sahih Muslim, 41:6984, Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:56:791, Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:177
Really, this is one of the best known of all Hadith.
And Nour has been spamming this about the David Wasserstein book across the threads. I disagreee with him–the fact is that there are very few Jews surviving anywhere in Dar-al-Islam.
But David Wasserstein also wrote about how the values of ISIS are canonical Islam–somehow I doubt that she’ll be citing *that* any time soon.
More:
If you, white Christians followed Islam’s rules of conduct, the Red Indians as well as the people of Maya and Inca would still be alive today…
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Nour has also been spamming this. Firstly, it is not true that Native Americans are not alive today. I have many neighbors and have had students who are Native Ameican.
Then, Westerners have criticized their own past–including the historic treatment of Native Americans.
Meanswhile, Nour has been lauding Muslims for enslaving and beheading their victims.
More:
“Does she reject the idea of their being “apes and pigs”?”
One could fall into serious misconceptions if he or she picks a word out of context such as “Jews as pigs”, and jump to the conclusion that the Quran describes all Jews alone, past and present, as pigs, and then proceed to make three further jumps: The Quran is racist, Arab Muslims (who are mainly Semite) are anti-Semitic, and, finally, Islam is a violent anti-peace doctrine.
In the verse which gives the meaning of:
{Say: Shall I inform you of (him who is) worse than this in retribution from Allah? (Worse is he) whom Allah has cursed and brought His wrath upon, and of whom He made apes and swine, and he who served the Shaitan; these are worse in place and more erring from the straight path.} (Al-Maidah 5:60)
The meaning of the word swine (or pigs in other translations) should be explained in the context of the complete verse. Similarly, the verse should be interpreted in the context of the whole chapter (surah), and the whole issue should be understood in the framework of the whole Book (Quran) and the message (Islam). Further, one should be fully aware of historical facts and be alerted of common (forcibly publicized) stereotypes.
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The whole context of the Qur’an is the hatred of Jews and other Infidels. Nice try…
More:
The reference in the verse is obviously to some who acted in a mischievous manner towards God, His messages, and Messengers. The rationale behind cursing some for their sinful stances and deeds could be gradually unfolded if you read through the preceding verses which give the meaning of:
{O you who believe! do not take for guardians those who take your religion for a mockery and a joke, from among those who were given the Book before you and the unbelievers; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah if you are believers. And when you call to prayer they make it a mockery and a joke; this is because they are a people who do not understand. Say: O followers of the Book! do you find fault with us (for aught) except that we believe in Allah and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed before, and that most of you are transgressors?} (Al-Maidah 5:57-59)
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What Nour means here is that Jews did not convert to Islam in sufficient numbers, and so they are reviled and then mass murdered.
More:
The words “monkeys and pigs” here are not to scold or revile these persons; rather, they express condemnation of their deeds.
They do not condemn a specific race or a whole race, but only those whose mentality and conduct are as described. So, it is their deviation from the proper divine guidance that makes such individuals deserve to be turned into monkeys (behaving thoughtlessly) and pigs (neither bashful nor shy of wicked acts).
The deviations and blunders for which they deserved such severe descriptions are not only those referred to in chapter five (Al-Maidah) of the Quran, but are expounded in more details in chapter two (Al-Baqarah). Further examples can be traced in other scattered locations of the Quran, from which you can form a long list.
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The Qur’an and Hadith are full of condemnation of Jews, and Muslims are enjoined to commit genocide agains them in the last days.
Does Nour have a problem with this? Not so you’d know.
After all, her coreligionist Ibrahim itace muhamme here has said how much he is looking forward to personally taking part in the genocide of the Jews.
The Istanbulian says
Nour,
Where are the Pontic Greeks, the Laz, Assyrians and Armenians? The Europeans in America were following Islam’s examples because that is what they had learned after centuries of incursions, raids, and occupation by Turks and Arabs. In fact it was you folks who started that whole Black slavery thing and kept it going 100 years after white Christians gave it up.
Stefan cel Mare says
Year 600…word islam was unknown…year 700…islam problem was known…not only the word.
Romans did not erase from existence populations, as islam do. Romans conquered and elevate the society without forcing arabs to believe in Venus or Neptun.
When muslims changed Constantinopole to Istanbul, they saw that they need commerce, trade…This is why they accepted some christians and jews to exist…And this was not for free…came with a price.
As a east European, I must say I admire your will to fight. I am also willing to fight. Atleast to take back Constantinopole.
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now…according to you…
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Well…then we are heading to behead everybody again. The only problem is that all these things the west did in history….were few hundreds years ago. You, islam, want this also in the future. I will start sharping my knifes and swords. I am ready to fight…but I am the only idiot ready to fight. West is drunk or asleep. If islam ever had the military power of the west, today all world would be islamic. Yet, when west had the mighty military power…there are still muslims ready to behead non-muslims. I think islam will advance very much in the west. Until the point to control the west. To invent a new show….beheadings in the central markets of big cities… But I am sure there will be a miracle. God will fight satan and satan will be cast out from this world. A god demanding so much blood as allah can only be satan. Allah, quran, has no word of love for me, non-muslim. My god loves you also.
Wellington says
When Christians did wrong in the name of Christianity, Nour, they were violating the tenets of their faith. By contrast, when Muslims use violence in the name of their creed (as they still do in case you haven’t noticed—over 33,000 DOCUMENTED Islamic attacks worldwide just since 9/11), they are fulfilling a major dictate of their warped religion, i.e., using violence as a way to make all the world dar-al Islam with no more dar-al-harb left.
The Koran has 164 verses instructing Muslims to wage war upon all mankind “until all religion is with Allah” {Sura 8:39}; by contrast, the New Testament has 0 verses calling upon Christians to wage war in order to make all the world Christian. HUGE DIFFERENCE. Really couldn’t be any bigger. BTW, I am not religious in the least but I unconditionally assert that the world would be infinitely better off if every Muslim woke up tomorrow a devout Christian.
As for the Old Testament, yes it does sanction violence for one time and for a very limited place (an area about the size of Maryland). Again, contra the Koran, which sanctions violence for all time and for the acquisition of all the earth. HUGE DIFFERENCE another time.
Look, Nour, Islam is the turd in the punch bowl of world religions. It is a burden to all the world like no other religion remotely has been. One knows this or should know it. You don’t—which speaks volumes.
Let me put it another way: 1) Islam sucks; 2) its reputed founder reveals the characteristics of a psychopath, narcissist, pedophile, rapist, bandit and overall fraud; 3) the Koran is putrid, nauseatingly repetitive, a hate manual, a war manual and often times just plain stupid; 4) Allah is a fictional deity if ever there were one; 5) Islam after parasitically feeding off a productive host goes into regressive mode (my God, just look at how desultory the entire Islamic world has been for many centuries now); 6) Islam is an enemy of liberty and establishes a Jim Crow system based not on race but on belief wherever it dominates; and 7) it has an ENORMOUS “ability” to apologize for none of its wrongdoings even though it has so very much to apologize for.
Oh yeah, as well, this effing religion ain’t good for true equality between the sexes; a ready-made religion if ever there were one for permanent dominance of one gender over the other. After all, the sicko fraud Mohammed did say he had visited Hell and most there were women. Even the childlike afterlife posited by Islam is a “place” where female virgins galore service men (and “pearly boys” too are available). Finally here, Islam still condones polygamy and there is ZERO possibility of true equality between the sexes wherever polygamy is sanctioned. This is why any woman with any sense should know that monogamy is a sine qua non for real equality between the genders. Islam still does not know this. Oh, what a surprise.
Islam is so sick. To its core. I loathe it. I always will. And only fools or worse defend this faith, the sickest excuse for a religion of all time. In its own way, it is the spiritual proto-type for Nazism. So, no wonder it was the only religion that Hitler spoke positively of (as revealed many times over in his Table Talk) and thus no wonder too that Hitler and Nazism remain so admired in so much of the Muslim world to this very day.
Got all this, Nour? Get it, apologist for the wretched creed which is Islam which you surely are. You and those like you make me sick. Time for a beer, some pork BBQ and a Beethoven symphony, none of which would exist if Islam had had its way everywhere in the West over the past several centuries. Indeed, a world dominated by Islam would be an exceedingly dark world. Would be deuce difficult to imagine a darker one.
The European says
God had revealed himself to Jews and Christians throughout history; and the Torah and the New Testament contain all these revelations, but there is no word about Allah, Muhammad and his message.
Then, in the sixth century, there comes that obscure man from the Arabian desert, called Muhammed, a man who was probably mentally insane and subject to epileptic seizures.
He tells Jews and Christians that their beliefs are false, their scriptures are twisted and distorted and that he, the so-called messenger of Allah, came to teach them the true word of “Allah,” Jews and Christians had allegedly obscured. First, the Christian monks and the Jewish rabbis listen to him, they check him out, probe him, compare his sayings with their scriptures, and finally prove him wrong. He is a false Prophet, an impostor, and his message cannot be believed,. They reject him.
But Muhammed who is narcistic and hence incapable of coping with rejection gets angry, very angry, and in one or two of his epileptic seizures which he tries to pass off as revelations from “Allah” he receives surah 5.
You write: “So, it is their deviation from proper divine guidance that makes such individuals deserve to be turned into monkeys ( behaving thoughlessly) and pigs ( neither bashful or shy of wicked acts)”
But neither Christians nor Jews deviated from divine guidance, it’s rather you and your false prophet who turned your back on the one and true God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. And it is rather you, the Muslims, who are deserving of God’s wrath and curse.
Your Allah is a fata morgana, a demon-like spirit from the desert, a kind of self-delusion, but he is never the true and one God of Christians and Jews.
JawsV says
The European: 7th Century. Islam’s start date is 622.
Stefan cel Mare says
year 622 is in 7th century :)…can you believe it ?
Rarely says
Mr. Spencer. I believe you have been unfair to islam. You seem to spend most of your time writing about its faults. Why don’t you write a book about the wonderful benefits islam has brought to mankind? For example, since 1948 (establishment of the State of Israel) muslims have killed more than 11,000,000 of their co-religionists. How is that not a benefit to mankind?
But, if you left out the violence they have initiated against their own and others, you could get it all down on a matchbook.Takes no time at all.
Elisha says
Surprise, surprise. A muslim resorts to lies to defend islam. Hey Nour, the truth speaks for itself and so does recorded history. Sura 34:10-11 emphatically state the existence of chain mail armor in the time of king David when history and archaeology tells us that chain mail armor didn’t exist until 300 – 400 BC. Crucifixion in the time of Pharaoh? Haman and Pharaoh? Moses sister was Jesus’ mother? I could go on (and on and on and on and on and on) but you’d just keep lying. Why come here and embarrass yourself? The internet has put the final nail in islam’s pitiful coffin. Seek Jesus Christ and live!
Golem2 says
You are in denial to the facts
b.a. freeman says
golly, never mind that belly laugh, Nour; i forgot to go out and kill my quota of injuns this morning!
don’t try to lay guilt on me for somebody else’s sins; lay guilt on me for what *I* do. but U wouldn’t understand that, because profit muhammed, a criminal psycopath, told U that the only good jew is a dead jew, and that settles the issue. also for christians, zoroastrians, hindus, jains, sikhs, …
U also don’t seem to understand (or U are deliberately ignoring) that adherents of any religion are distributed along spectra of belief and behavior. a MINO is somebody who was brought up muslim, but doesn’t practice the religion. he may or may not believe any part of the scriptures, and even if he believes, he may not practice its tenets in spite of knowing about them. and in fact, he may not even have full knowledge of islamic scriptures. guess what? the same actually applies to jews, christians, sikhs, jains, buddhists, etc.! just because a jew spreads bulls**t about how muslims treated jews doesn’t mean that he knows, believes, or practices everything that is jewish, and is thus an authority on judaism; it also doesn’t guarantee that he is telling the truth. don’t for 1 second believe that people here don’t understand that leftists are liars, regardless of what their natal culture or race may seem to indicate. furthermore, spreading untruths (or telling slanted versions of the truth) does not make one an expert on history.
now, as to the behavior of the “white race” in its treatment of native americans, i must concur that it was horrible. so how many of those responsible can we put behind bars for their crimes? unless some of those people really found the fountain of youth, they’re all dead, and can no longer be punished for their crimes. I DIDN’T DO THEIR CRIMES, and anybody who tries to tar me with that brush is a liar, and furthermore a fool if he thinks i will accept responsibility for those acts. what’s done is done; nothing can be done about what was done in past centuries. i *DON’T* blame living muslims for constantinople’s brutal conquest; they didn’t do the crimes, and for the most part, probably think that islam was welcomed, because that is what they are taught. it is *stuipid* to blame somebody for another person’s crimes, but pious muslims and hard-core leftists (fellow totalitarians) are past masters at lying to make people feel guilty. go try making somebody else guilty, Nour; i don’t buy that parcel of s**t.
OK, back to the pigs and apes. the words mean what they say, and the ulema pulls no punches about it. to this very day, it is extremely easy to find islamic scholars and jurists who call the jews pigs and anpes. usually, one must speak arabic to understand them, because they don’t make press releases in french, english, german, or any other european language, because they don’t have to do so. the majority of people in the nations of the middle east and north africa all speak some version of arabic; mali speaks french, morocco speaks berber and arabic, turkey speaks turkish, and iran speaks farsi, but algeria, libya, egypt, saudi arabia, yemen, iraq, syria, oman, and lebanon all have arabic as the official language. somehow, the legacy media missed this, and only reports what the governments of these s**thole nations say in european languages. the funny thing is, the arabaic and non-arabic statements don’t match. i guess the media haven’t figured this out yet; it has only been about 550 years since constantinople was conquered, and the word may not have reached them yet.
and as for the peacefulness of islamic scripture, and the true meaning of Al-Maidah and Al-Baqarah, i will defer to the scriptures themselves. in many sahih ahadith in kutub alsittah, profit muhammed claimed in no uncertain terms that the quran was *very* clear; thus, it is best to take the scriptures at their word, rather than ascribe some cryptic meaning to them. quran 9:29 says to fight against christians and jews until they are brought low and must pay jizya (protection racket payments); here the arabic word translated as “fight” means “fight until death,” not a mere struggle, contest, argument, or even fistfight. sahih muslim (41:6981 – 41:6985) and sahih al-bukhari (4:6:791) both report that muhammed said that the end of time (the “last hour”) “would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them.” no ambiguity there. furthermore, the ulema has issued many tafsirs condemning both christians and jews, with the most vitriol reserved for jews. never is individual responsibility spelled out; rather, whatever is wrong is always the fault of the “filthy jews.”
so please forgive me if i vomit after reading your lies, Nour. if U really believe what U wrote, then i encourage U to learn more about islam than U appear to know. U may be a nice person, but that makes U a very bad muslim. finally, Jesus loves U, and He commands me to love U as well, in spite of the justifiable fear i have of U and your fellow believers, who are a deadly danger to civilization. please come out of the dark of the evil cult of islam and into the light; convince people with love rather than force.
Wellington says
Your replies to Nour, gravenimage, call them refutations as I would be inclined to do so, were superb (as usual).
And just to put the truth one more time to the mendacious Nour, who averred in her 2:19 P.M. post above that the historian Mansel has been the only historian to assert that the Muslims “sacked” Constantinople in that very sad month for all of Judeo-Christian civilization, May, 1453, this is what the single greatest Byzantine scholar of the 20th century, anywhere in the world, one George Ostrogorsky, had to say about said taking of Constantinople by Mohammed II, to be found on page 571 of the English translation of his text, “History of the Byzantine State,” by the very competent fellow Byzantine scholar, Joan Hussey: “For three days and three nights the Sultan’s troops were allowed to plunder the city as they had been promised just before the final assault to raise their flagging morale. Property of priceless value, works of art, precious manuscripts, holy icons and ecclesiastical treasure were all destroyed.”
Nour: You are a liar. But then so is the religion which you defend, Islam.
Lydia Church says
And, lest we forget, all violence in the Old Testament was justified.
Take, for instance, Israel’s tribes going after and displacing the occupying people in the land in and around Israel. This was God dropping His justice on them. They used to do things like sacrifice their babies alive in the fires to false gods! Destroying them was no less just than exterminating nazi’s who had committed the holocaust.
But oh… how few get that!
Great arguments folks! That was all I could add. Keep it up!
( :
J D S says
You are right Wellington…….
To show the difference between the east and west.
The west has the power and technology to completely eradicate the east…..but being civil they won’t.
Now reverse this and what would happen?
Nuf said.
gravenimage says
Thank you for citing Ostrogorsky and Hussey, Wellington.
Of course, Nour’s claim that no one ever mentioned the conquest of Constantinople being violent until 1995 is just obviously absurd.
Barbara Ethel says
Would laugh if you weren’t so tragically misinformed. Your hero Mehmed was a bloodthirsty savage in Mohammed’s image.
Islam is a cancer on humanity.
JawsV says
The Moslems have been mass-beheaders like Muhammed. They still are today.
Rarely says
France is ready for them. The guillotines are getting rusty.
Wellington says
Seconded.
J D S says
Thirded
JawsV says
“The only historian who said that Muslims sacked the city was Philip Mansel, in his book, “Constantinople: City of the World’s Desire” — Moor (excuse me, Nour)
Well, I think you should read Paul Fregosi’s “Jihad in the West: Muslim Conquests From the 7th to the 21st Centuries” (1998). Published 3 years before 9/11, another Moslem Conquest in the West. The Moslems wanted to build a Victory Mosk on the site. Remember?
Rob Crawford says
“The only historian who said that Muslims sacked the city…”
What an absolute lie. If you’re in the right, why do you lie?
Read Lars Brownworth’s “Lost to the West” or John Julius Norwich’s *multiple* histories of the Byzantines.
The European says
As always, Nour, our self-styled apologist for Islam, does never tire to whitewash Islamic atrocities and to paint an idylllic picture or her/his religious monstrosity.
But let’s take a closer look at more fact-based descriptions of historical events.
1.Retelling the fall of Constantinople, Nicolo Barbaro says:” All through the day the Turks made a great slaughter of Christians through the city”
2. Kritovoulos, a Byzantine scholar and eye-witness wrote: “They had fallen on Constantinople like a fire or whirlwind…the whole city was deserted and emptied and appeared ravaged and carred as if by fire … the only houses left standing were devastated, so ruined that they struck terror in the hearts of all that saw them because of the enormous devastation.”
3. In “Constantinople, The Last Great Siege 1453,” Roger Crowley tells us:”They killed initially to create terror, everyone they found, they dispatched at the point of the scimitar, women and men, old and young, of any condition,” but then, realizing that the Byzantines were no longer able to put up any effective resistance… “The Ottoman soldiers acted, according to Sa’d-ud-din ( a Muslim writer), in accordance with the precept, “Slaughter their aged and capture their youth”. The hunt began for valuable slaves -young women, beautiful children…”
Roger Crowley estimates that ” Almost the whole population of 50 000 had been led away to the ships and camps, and maybe 4000 had been killed (civilians).
4. Historian Lars Brownworth writes in his book “Lost to the West:” The carnage was terrible. Turkish soldiers fanned out along the streets that were soon slick with blood, covering the ground so thickly that in some places the corpses could hardly be seen. The Venetians and the Genovese managed to get to the ships and escaped … but the rest of the population was doomed. Women and children were raped, men were impaled, houses were sacked and churches were looted and burned. This lasted three days and then Mehmet II ended the bloodshedding and looting.”
So, Nour, dream on and keep thinking that your butcher Mehmet II was a philantropist and that Islam once again showed how tolerant it,was when the Ottomans sacked Constantinople.
mortimer says
RESPONSE TO NOUR: HOW MUCH VIOLENCE IN THE KORAN?
Bill Warner PhD: A Comparison of Violence in the Bible & the Koran
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzU7MoVp4lc
Lydia Church says
Any ‘violence’ in the Bible is actually justice.
There is a difference between an islamic blood bath taking innocent victims for nothing…
and punishing evil!
Any good parent knows that.
Carol the 1st says
Nour definitely should watch this one. It will prove that Islam is in a class by itself:
Dr. Bill Warner how did Islam destroy the classical world
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AhLlYNGxFE
bruce Dunning says
Exactly the trash and lies you would expect from a Muslim indoctrinated into a religion of hate and killing
J says
Mehmed desired a handsome Greek boy and demanded his father hand him over for rape. The father refused and both were killed. Muslims destroyed a beautiful city and ancient culture. They want to do the same to the whole world and replace it with hell.
gravenimage says
Ramadan Day 13 thought for the day from Robert Spencer’s The History of Jihad
…………………….
Yes–the conquest of Constantinople was one of the most savage in history. The slaughter, mass rape, and enslavement in Hagia Sophia–where women, children, the elderly, nuns, and priests had gone for sanctuary–was particularly appalling.
JawsV says
A catastrophe for Christendom. The end of the last Roman outpost, the Eastern Roman Empire.
gravenimage says
True, Jaws. And Hagia Sophia was the greatest Church in Christendom.
Westman says
One wonders if some Muslims in Istanbul take a moment to reflect that perhaps the only reason they are Muslim is due to the application of extortion and a protection racket upon their ancestors. It’s not surprising that Islam, despite having a Quran that is a disjointed mess, was still able expand using the sword and the application of dhimmi status. The shahada is nothing more than capitulation, a submission.
JawsV says
How? The Moslems defeated the Christians in 1453 and Hagia Sophia was immediately turned into a mosk. A Victory Mosk. That’s how.
Barbara Ethel says
Yes I have had the great pleasure to visit Hagia Sophia and Istanbul in the 90’s. What a truly great metropolis it was .Women were relatively free in those days in that part of Turkey. And it showed in the beauty and atmosphere there. I have been back and ever since Erdogan has held Turkey in a stranglehold, the lights have been extinguished. Very sad. I shan’t return in my lifetime. But let’s face it. Hagia Sophia belongs to Jesus..no matter what they tell you. Same as Jerusalem of Gold belongs to the people who have always been there. Let us never forget history.
Lydia Church says
One thing most don’t see… Christians are never defeated.
That is correct.
It is a win-win situation.
If you die a martyr for Christ, you are an overcomer (a winner).
If you live for Christ, you are also an overcomer (a winner).
And the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church… this plays out in church history time and again.
Let us never forget this fact.
The victory is and always will belong to Jesus!
JawsV says
“When the slaughter and pillage was finished, Mehmet II ordered an Islamic scholar to mount the high pulpit of the Hagia Sophia and declare that there was no God but Allah, and Muhammad was his prophet.”
Camel Poop! There is no Allah. Allah is Muhammed. Islam’s a total fraud.
Susan B. says
JawsV – LOL camel poop!, love it. Maybe add some camel urine.
acc says
Think… The outposts of the Russian troops were in 1878 about ten kilometres from Constantinople but they did not eradicate the muslims but withdrawed themselves due to the pressure of Britain. A huge strategic error.
gravenimage says
Even before the Armenian Genocide, Turkey had by that time wiped out much of the nonMuslim population. I really doubt that the Russians could have retaken Constantinople.
They did do a great deal around this time to free parts of eastern Europe from the brutal Ottoman Empire, though–in part at the urging of brave American journalist Januarius MacGahan, who reported on the Muslim massacres of Bulgarian civilians.
Brian hoff says
England saw russia as than threat to it empire. Than wise choice as there where many loyal muslim in the empire. Many muslim service on the westèn front in europe durning ww1.
gravenimage says
Does “Brian hoff”–really, “DefenderofIslam”–have a problem with Muslims raping, enslaving, and slaughtering all those who took sanctuary in Hagia Sophia? Somehow I doubt it…
Ecosse1314 says
If by England you mean Britain then say so. England did not exist in the 19th century. It had gone into union with Scotland in 1707 and 1800 with Ireland. If you can’t get that fact right then anything else you say is suspect.
JawsV says
Hoff is a Muslim who used to be “defender of islam” on this site. He has a real problem with the proper use of “than.”
Wellington says
JawsV: Not only does Hoff have a “real problem” with the proper use of “than,” far graver is his problem with the truth (as I know only too well you know too).
Ecosse1314: I respect the way you regularly stand up for Scotland (beautiful land, especially the Highlands and the Western Isles). Being of Polish descent, I think we have something in common, i.e., being regularly dismissed, looked over or, worst of all, invaded.
gravenimage says
How did the Hagia Sophia become a mosque?
………………
Women, children, the elderly, nuns, and priests had all taken sanctuary in Hagia Sophia–and were raped, enslaved, or slaughtered outright when the Muslims invade. *Hideous*.
gravenimage says
Sorry for the near double post.
Mark Berlinger says
Europe gave up the Crusades in 1291. However Muslims did not give up Jihad and finally conquered the capital of the Roman Empire, Constantinople in 1453. And it was through combined efforts at various times of the Spaniards, the Austrians, and later the Poles and the Russians that saved Western Civilization from being defeated by retrograde Islam.
gravenimage says
Good post.
JawsV says
Yes, the Moslems had tried Constantinople, the capital of the Eastern Roman Empire, in previous centuries and were defeated. Finally, in 1453 they succeeded. A calamitous blow to Christendom. The Jihad was in full force. The Jihad petered out near the end of the 18th century and became a relic. Turkey the “sick man of Europe.” In the 21st century the Jihad returned in full force. It’s called 9/11.
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
One day the Turkish plaster will come off its walls and those splendid mosaics will shine and sparkle again.
Rob Crawford says
In parts, they do today. The Turks — to their credit — only covered up the Christian art that was in their line of sight during prayers. So much of it survives today, including the gorgeous mosaic of Justinian presenting the Hagia Sophia to Christ while Constantine gives Him the city.
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
I have never been in the building so I wouldn’t know for sure but from my readings, all the mosaics that do not comply with Mohammadan rules around art/imagery were/are covered by plaster and decorations are painted over the plaster. Restorers have/do frequently uncover parts to see if they are still in good condition. There is mixed opinion on whether this process protects or damages the glass tesserae.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aniconism_in_Islam
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
It has to be said that the fate of Constantinople was sealed long before this event. The combination of:
– The Byzantines long standing practice of paying off invaders rather than fielding a competent army.
– Dancing with the devil: the long standing practice by the Byzantines of commercial associations with the Ottoman Turks. An example: Turks were free to enter the city as tourists.
– A deep seated bigotry against Western Christians and states: Especially among the nobles of the Byzantine empire, there was bigotry against the West. People of the West, even though they were often more affluent, were considered inferior uncultured “hicks.” Near the end, offers of aid were refused because the nobles felt it was beneath them.
– The stupid belief that Constantinople could not fall because God would not allow it.
It must also be said that Mehmet had offered safe passage to the emperor and the citizens of the City to the Peloponnese. There was a strong Greek cultural revival happening there and the appearance of the Emperor would have strengthened the revival. The Emperor proudly and stupidly refused. Mahmet just wanted the City. Stupid of him, really, what is a city without its people, its culture and its faith? That explains Mehmet’s edicts afterwards as described by our Mohammadan apologist Nour. He was trying to bring the City back to what it was. (And even then, Constantinople was not the City then that it was before 1204 AD.) But for naught; Constantinople was doomed to a slow decline under Mohammadism. Under the Turks it was a small shadow of its previous glory. And little more that a museum under Mustafa Kemal Atatürk.
Besides, Venice had long become the keeper Late Roman/Byzantine culture and society, and it showed.
Older Canadian says
Actually, it was built in the 6th century. It was a place of worship of the Gnostic Goddess Sophia and was one of Europe’s greatest temples.
This Godess was called a virgin mother even though she had three daughters, Faith, Hooe and Charity. She was symbolized by a white dove.
After the victory of literalist orthodox Christianity the Great Goddess was demoted to a phoney virgin martyr.
After Constantiople fell to the Turks in 1453 Hagia Sophia was once again converted, this time into a mosque.
Sorry folks but its roots is what we call today a pagan religion, which had evolved partially fromGreek mythology and assorted other religions at that time which are now defunct.
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
“It was a place of worship of the Gnostic Goddess Sophia and was one of Europe’s greatest temples.”
It was built by Justinian as an Greek Orthodox Cathedral … right from the start. By that time there was absolutely no paganism openly practiced in the Empire. (I should know, my nom de plume was the last to attempt, unsuccessfully, a revival of the pagan cults.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagia_Sophia
gravenimage says
Actually, Hagia Sophia was not a “virgin martyr”, or a gnostic goddess, either–it does not mean “Saint Sophia”. Hagia Sophia means “Holy Wisdom”.
The first church on this site was called Μεγάλη Ἐκκλησία (Megálē Ekklēsíā, “Great Church”), or in Latin Magna Ecclesia–not Hagia Sophia.
Another nearby church was called Hagia Eirene–which likewise does not mean “Saint Eirene”, but “Holy Peace”.
Stacy Girl says
It can always be expected here to find edification and clarity from the wise posters. Thank you.
gravenimage says
Thank you, Stacy Girl.
Terry Gain says
Wellington says
May 29, 2018 at 5:01 pm
—————-
Wellington. Thank you so much for your devastating critique of Islam. May I borrow it, of course giving you credit?
I would love to have a beer with you. Or a case.
Wellington says
Terry Gain: 1) Indeed, you can borrow it; 2) Preferably a case.
gravenimage says
I would gladly have a beer with both of you!
The European says
To JawsVsays
Sorry!
Yes, you’re right: he started his preachings in the 7th century. He is said to have been visited for the first time in a cave by Gabriel in 607, and in 610 he went to preach publicly the messages he had allegedly received from “Allah.” The Hijra occured in 622, and this year marks also the beginning of the islamic calendar.
JawsV says
No problem! I just don’t like seeing Islam beginning any sooner than it did.
Jack Holan says
The Great Multillier Of Islam! Destroy or incorporate the Church, Temple that existed long before Mohamed’s gr gr gr grndfather was even thought. The Mufti and Imams ensure the old thats now New is hallal The Churches Temples not worthy to become Mosques remain the same for the People Of the Book Paying Jyzza or goes into Muslim possession for some other purpose. Remember the Temples and Churches cannot be added to or improved.
The Great Multiplier ensures no Religion other than Islam will grow. Out off difficiculty and accomadation (Mosque Space) The Umma will grow in theory. The quintessential reason the PLO MUSThave Jerusalem where as it was back stop and not mentioned with great vigor until 70 years ago its more for the Western Wall and Temple Mount. If Muslims can steal this they will have stolen Judaism’s most Holy site. It would be the equivelant Of taking Mecca. How many times does the Quran mention Jerusalem to pray-0- Jews turn East 3 Times a day in prayer towards Jerusalem. “ if I forget thee o Jerusalem”. It is mentioned 2500 times in the Torah
Stacy Girl says
Oh Nour, you tell us not to judge historic events by today’s standards. When oh when are you going to explain why slavery is rampant today, everywhere we find your brothers? From Libya to London, sex slavery is the Koran-approved practice which sustains your cult.
gravenimage says
Very important question.
Infidel says
Claiming other faiths’ places of worship, lands, properties. women is an old established Islamic habit.
dumbledoresarmy says
Islam: cult that sacralises armed robbery, as it also sacralises rape, mass murder, and mass enslavement.
Lydia Church says
There is no God but the Christian God, and Jesus is His only Messenger, and is God Himself!
Philippians 2; 5-11:
“Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
It is just a matter of a little bit more sweet time!
All that is in the Bible will come to pass.
Chris Malan says
You said: “There is no God but the Christian God, and Jesus is His only Messenger, and is God Himself!” Jesus himself thought differently: http://biblehub.com/john/17-3.htm As did Paul: http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/8-6.htm And the language is clear – no “thought it not robbery” which may mean anything. Look at the different translations: http://biblehub.com/philippians/2-6.htm If you look at the Greek, http://biblehub.com/text/philippians/2-6.htm and follow the links you will see the Greek word harpagmon means “spoil, an object of eager desire, a prize,” i.e. something to be obtained, not something which one already has. Quite a few translations come near to the correct meaning. You will see these all use “grasp” which is used for things not in one’s posession instead of “cling to” which is used for what is in one’s posession – use an online dictionary.
Do a study of the Greek concept of “logos” and Philo of Alexandria and how it influenced the last written gospel, that of John.
All the Old Testament prophets were God’s messengers as was John the Baptist. Jesus is God’s only son.
Media Maya says
It is all arranged by God, we must accept reality
gravenimage says
I reject the idea that we have no free will and have to passively accept the triumph of evil. We didn’t bow to the Fascists, and don’t have to bow to Islam, either.
Pal says
“Sultan Mehmet had promised to his soldiers the three days of pillage to which they were entitled. They poured into the city…”
“…once they were within the city all joined in the wild hunt for loot. At first they could not believe that the defence was finished. They slew everyone that they met in the streets, men, women and children without discrimination.”
“The blood ran in rivers down the steep streets from the heights of Petra (highest altitude, Topkapi palace today – mine) towards the Golden Horn (lowest altitude, sea level – mine)….”.
THE FALL OF CONSTANTINOPLE 1453
Steven Runciman
1965
page 145
Chris Malan says
Did Christians ever turn a mosque in a place they conquered into a church? Or maybe into a pigsty? Now there’s a thought.
gravenimage says
Christians did this in lands they reclaimed from Muslim conquest–as in Spain and parts of the Balkans.
But this is *very* different–they didn’t invade and seize Muslim places of worship.
FYI says
It was STOLEN by the followers of the antichristian,antiJewish{k9:30}islamic false god allah,no doubt with permission granted from allah’s commandment-of-God,theologically flawed,”perfect” koran.
“allah promiseth ye much booty that ye will capture”
koran 48:20
But then stealing,like lying,adultery,murder appear to be perfectly acceptable to allah’s devotees,despite the fact that God gave commandments prohibiting such things:but then allah the deceiver,his mass murdering “prophet” and muslims in general don’t appear to either know or OBEY any of God’s Laws do they?Instead they put on that 5 times a day show of false piety with their “prayers” to a god of hate and violence{in reality allah is of course ….baal}
muslims may kill the innocent k2:191
muslims may commit adultery k33:50
muslims shall steal k48:20,k9:29{jizya taxing indidels=stealing!…}
muslims are allowed to bear false witness{taqqiya etc}
Who says?
allah says…but God’s commandments demand otherwise…
The “holy” koran,given its commandment-of-God violating teachimgs should be subtitled:-
“Thou what thou wilt muslim ..in the name of your false god allah and your false prophet muhammed….that shalt be the whole of thy law”
Politicianophobia says
The first mosque, a simple, artless building made of the wood of date trees, which was erected soon after his arrival in Medina, became a sacred center for his teachings. From its roof, five times a day, the steadfast devotee Bilal summoned the faithful to prayer.
Hitherto Islam had been a religion of peace and love, and Mohammed had inculcated no precept as he had that of gentleness in word and deed. But now he found himself at the head of a submissive host of followers and in a position to oppose his enemies by force of arms, he declared the struggle against the infidel, the spread of his doctrines by fire and sword, to be the sacred duty of all Moslems, a precept which gave Islam an aggressive direction and had in its results a world-shaking significance, not to bring peace but a sword.
Politicianophobia says
Relying on the warlike impulse which such doctrines must have engendered in the fiery soul of the Arab, Mohammed, at the head of his fellow tribesmen, allies, and believing followers, now undertook warlike expeditions against the Koreish who had driven and robbing them him from his native city. He knew that he could not more effectively punish the haughty merchant princes of Mecca than by lying in wait for their caravans and robbing them of the valuable wares which they were accustomed to take Syria.
If at first warfare was suspended during the sacred months, Mohammed soon tore down this barrier.
ia.
Michael Casmer says
Yes, my cathedral, the Ukrainian Catholic Cathedral in Philadelphia is modeled on it.
gravenimage says
Here is a picture of this lovely cathedral:
http://www.ukrcathedral.com/thumbs/outsidecathedral_thumb.jpg
Michael Casmer says
thanks gravenimage for posting the picture. Yes, the inside is beautiful too
gravenimage says
True, Michael. Here is a picture of the interior:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/81/Ukrainian_Cathedral_Iconostasis.jpg/220px-Ukrainian_Cathedral_Iconostasis.jpg
Pal says
“On May 29, 1453, after a seven-week siege, the Turks launched a final assault. Bursting through the city’s defenses and overwhelming its outnumbered defenders, the invaders poured into the streets, sacking churches and palaces, and cutting down anyone who stood in their way. Terrified citizens flocked to Hagia Sophia, hoping that its sacred precincts would protect them, praying desperately that, as an ancient prophesied, an avenging angel would hurtle down to smite the invaders before they reached the great church.
Instead, the sultan’s janissaries battered through the great wood-and-bronze doors, bloody swords in hand, bringing an end to an empire that had endured for 1,123 years. “The scene must have been horrific, like the Devil entering heaven,” says Crowley. “The church was meant to embody heaven on earth, and here were these aliens in turbans and robes, smashing tombs, scattering bones, hacking up icons for their golden frames. Imagine appalling mayhem, screaming wives being ripped from the arms of their husbands, children torn from parents, and then chained and sold into slavery. For the Byzantines, it was the end of the world.” Memory of the catastrophe haunted the Greeks for centuries. Many clung to the legend that the priests who were performing services that day had disappeared into Hagia Sophia’s walls and would someday reappear, restored to life in a reborn Greek empire.”
A Monumental Struggle to Preserve Hagia Sophia
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/a-monumental-struggle-to-preserve-hagia-sophia-92038218/
gravenimage says
+1
DP111 says
Muslim demographics are going to destroy the West. Stopping Muslim immigration or severely curtailing it. – Does not work as strategic option any more, as Muslim demographic growth from within will ensure a Muslim majority in many western countries in 50 or 100 years.
Stopping benefit – too weak – Muslims will simply live with it, while moaning and complaining about the cruelty imposed on them. Meanwhile the Demographic time bomb is still ticking
Stopping the building of mosques, minarets etc – same problem – they don’t disarm the Demographic time bomb
The Demographic time bomb is the main weapon that Islam has, and it is planted in every city in the western world. It is the ultimate sleeper weapon. At this moment there is no way out from our eventual demise.
Susan B. says
DP111, the best way to destroy islam is with truth, islam and truth can not coexist. Hand out translated korans so that us kafirs and muslims alike can read how evil this cult really is. Print the verses in chronological order so it shows how the koran becomes more violent over time. It is my understanding that 90% of muslims have never read their books and in fact when they do read them they leave islam. At least the ones with a soul and conscience. Start teaching about what islam has done and is doing; if need be hand out books showing the history of this cult so people are aware of islam’s barbaric past and present. Close to a billion people murdered and even more raped in the name of some phony pagan moon god is a story that needs to be in schools and on line and taught where and when ever possible. Think the Nazis times 1000, that is islam.
islam will not survive the light of truth, the trick is getting the truth out there.
Yes, we should ban islam for what it is and deport all who support the rape and murder doctrines of this cult; we do not need or want people who want to rape and murder us. First, to accomplish all of this we need to overthrow our paid for and bought politicians. We need to hold the MSM accountable with laws in place that will hurt them if not ban them for being a propaganda tool of the globalist. I truly believe that this evil Nazis group with a religious facade will murder and rape many more before it is destroyed, however it will be destroyed.