“At an elementary school in Linz, Catholic children have to memorise and recite Islamic songs as part of the Islamic Ramadan festival. They were forced to take part and were punished if they refused.”
Do you think the Muslim children are forced to learn Christian hymns? Somehow I doubt it.
“Catholic children forced to learn Islamic songs at Austrian elementary school,” Voice of Europe, June 20, 2018:
At an elementary school in Linz, Catholic children have to memorise and recite Islamic songs as part of the Islamic Ramadan festival. They were forced to take part and were punished if they refused.
“We were on our way home when he suddenly started to sing ‘Allah, Allah’,” a shocked mother of one of the students says. He learned that at school and had to sing it. “It felt like a slap in my face!” she adds.
“Mom, we have to get involved. The teacher said: “If we do not do that, we’ll have to go to the director and then there’ll be a punishment,” the son reported in fear of his mother’s reprisals. For two months he had to rehearse the songs.
As the mother points out, she has no problem whatsoever with other students living out their religions. “I was only shocked that all the children had to join in,” she says, emotionally.
The mother adds she has nothing against the Muslim festival, but every pupil should have a chance to opt out.
But the situation at the school was clearly different. The Islamic religious teacher came to the children in the class and ordered the students to learn the appropriate Ramadan songs, because the whole class must celebrate this festival….
CogitoErgoSum says
Ancient Rome tolerated many religions among its citizens but loyalty to the state was expected to be demonstrated through public practice of the state religion. Christians, however, did not participate in showing devotion to any gods except the triune God of Father, Son and Holy Spirit and were persecuted because of it. The Christians of the 21st century should remember the early days of the Church and be willing to accept the consequences that result from not showing devotion to the false gods of a non-Christian state. The Roman Empire disappeared but Christianity still remains.
Tricia Stuercke says
AMEN! IT IS PROPHESIED THAT CHRISTIANS WILL FIND THEMSELVES BACK AT HOUSE-CHURCH STATUS IN THESE COMING, WORSENING YEARS. GET READY KIDS…WE’RE IN FOR QUITE A STRUGGLE. TO QUOTE THAT AWESOME AL CAPONE MOVIE AS SEAN CONNERY’S TOUGH-AS-NAILS COP LIES DYING & GRABS KEVIN COSTER/NESS’S COLLAR & SPUTTERS OUT THROUGH BLOOD,
“WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?!”
“WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?!”
CogitoErgoSum says
What are you prepared to do?
Ask that of a Christian and the answer you get would most likely be, “I am prepared to take up my cross with the faith that Christ conquered death and offered eternal life to those who believe in Him.”
Ask that of a Muslim and the answer you get would most likely be, “I am prepared to take up the sword with the faith that I will be rewarded with eternal orgasms in Paradise for killing the filthy infidel.” …… Oh, wait. On second thought, a Muslim would probably not be that honest in his answer.
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
Just a side note: There were many exceptions made to this expectation that those inside the land controlled by the republic/empire would engage in the state religion in the form of worship of state gods. One that comes to mind was the Roman’s (under Augustus, if I remember correctly) exemption the Jews from this practice.
Kepha says
They understood and respected Jewish antiquity.
CogitoErgoSum says
True, but things for the Jews sort of took a turn for the worse after the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 A.D.
Richard says
Rome even sent bulls to be sacrificed in the Temple at Jerusalem! (Odd, considering the Roman emperors considered themselves gods. hedging their bets?) When the Jews finally refused to accept them, it was supposedly a major reason for the Romans marching on Jerusalem.
CogitoErgoSum says
I think the Jews had worked out a deal with the Romans that they would make a sacrifice in the Temple every day on behalf of Augustus if he covered the costs. They did this for Tiberius also when he assumed power in 14 A.D. However, shortly after Caligula became emperor in 37 A.D. he went mad and ordered a statue of himself to be placed in the Temple for worship by the Jews. This went against the first commandment to the Jews from God barring idol worship and so the Jews rebelled, eventually leading to the destruction of the Temple by the Romans in 70 A.D. So yes, I suppose Augustus and Tiberius were hedging their bets but Caligula took the idea of being a god seriously (most likely due to brain damage following a sickness) and completely alienated the Jews.
Lydia Church says
Exactly! That is what I have been saying for years!
You just have to say NO! I WON’T!
Regardless of the consequences!
But today’s ‘Christian’ has been spoiled, softened, mollified with a sense of entitlements, flabby, and not prepared to take the stand Jesus told us we had to take. Today’s ‘Christian’ in general is like this: someone from another religion asks them to ‘jump’ for a false god, and they ask “how high?” when the answer should be “No, I can’t honor any false gods, only the God of the Bible. Would you like to know about Him?”
The early Christians did it right, they knew who their true allegiance was to and they were loyal to God, no matter what. That is how it needs to be, and Jesus expects, and deserves no less!
Like I say; guts of steel is what you need… guts of steel!
And how do you get guts of steel in matters like this?
The Holy Spirit.
Before the birth of the church, the disciples were hiding behind closed doors with knocking knees, shaking with fear of consequences. Then the descension of the Holy Spirit came upon the church, nothing else changed, but they were filled with boldness and power and went out of the upper room and down into the town and were praising God. The people were asking what was going on and Peter launched into the first of many big public speeches about the gospel, and many got saved. It went on from that day until today. See the first chapters of Acts. The same power is available to all who come to Jesus. That was what made all the difference, and that was why the church is still with us today, the same power. So when I say things like “I’m not afraid… I will tell them straight up that I am a Christian no matter who, when, where, and why….. I will share the gospel…. I will resist false religion and not give in no matter what they threaten me with…” I’m not kidding, I mean it! And that is the only reason why and how…. through the power of the Holy Spirit!
“And behold, I am sending the promise of My Father upon you. But remain in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.” Luke 24; 49
“So he said to me, “This is the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel: Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit, says the LORD of Hosts.” Zechariah 4; 6
Tricia Stuercke says
AMEN! “…PICK UP YOUR CROSS & FOLLOW ME…”
I’M WITH YOU, & PRAY MY BOYS WILL HAVE THE STRENGTH OF FAITH TO DO THE SAME.
Richard says
Absolutely wonderful, Lydia!! There is an old saying: “The Garden of the Church is watered with the Blood of Her martyrs.” The dangerous difference between us and Islam is that muslims desperately seek martyrdom while the “Christians” respond: “Say, What???”
Christ died only once, but He did it in such a way as if He died individually for everyone who ever lived or would live. Each of us was there that day at the pillar with a whip in our hands, carving our sins into HIs Flesh and writing them in His Blood. Every day we add weight to His cross. Every day, we add wounds to His Body. His bloody footsteps to Calvary were the paths of our sinful lives, being washed clean by the Blood of the Lamb; and each time He falls under His cross, it is each of us individually pushing Him out of the way whenever He stood between us and so horrid sin we wanted to commit. When we consider all this, martyrdom is such a very little thing for us to offer in return.
TheBuffster says
Yes, the child’s Mom should tell the child that it’s up to him whether to take the punishment or not, but that whatever the punishment is, it won’t be as bad as being stoned or decapitated for disobeying Shariah. Resist while the punishment is bearable and you might not have to resist under worse circumstances.
If the child resists the pressures of THE CHURCH(!) to sing Islamic songs – songs of a religion that denies Jesus’s divinity, his death on the cross and resurrection, and that holds as a goal the subjugation of Christians and Jews under the supremacy of Islam – then a child holding out against that church in the name of the ancient Christians who held out against Roman persecution might wake a few people up.
However, it’s not something a parent should pressure a child to do. Choosing to take a punishment or not should be entirely the child’s decision. It’s a very grown-up decision that should be taken freely by a person mature enough to make it on their own.
I’m an atheist, by the way. But I’m 100% for standing up for what you believe in and not caving to the bullies.
Walter Sieruk says
Same on the priests of that school for allow this to happen. Are those priests too cowardly to oppose this affront ? Are those priest too ignorant to understand the evil in this ? Either way, Shame on them.
gravenimage says
Walter, I didn’t see any indication that this was a Catholic school. Did I miss something?
andra says
But there must be Catholic teachers teaching Catholic Religion. They should have interfered in this Islamisation.
Kay says
Any adult of a religion other than Mohammedism should have objected. That’s even more the case if there were priests or nuns on staff. The brainwashing went on for 2 months.
But then again, maybe someone did object and was forced into silence.
Richard says
Austria is (or was) a Catholic country. I think Austria is all that remains of the Holy Roman Empire, which was the guardian and military arm of the Church, though it sometimes worked against the Church for the Emperor’s own ends. The Holy Roman Emperor actually had the right to veto whomever was elected Pope if he didn’t like him. Until the Anchlaus by Germany in the 1930s, Austrian schools always had a period set aside to study the Catholic faith. The integration into Germany ended that when the Nazis took the religious study time and turned it into studying being part of Germany. (Ein land! Ein volk! Ein Fuhrer!).The children were taught how to be good Nazis. Now they are being taught how to be good Muslims. Many will be permanently effected by the disease and will pass it on to others. Souls will die from the contagion. This is an abomination under Church law.
Tricia Stuercke says
BRILLIANT POST.
YES, AUSTRIA WAS 98% CATHOLIC STILL! RIGHT UP TO THE MUSLIM INVASION. PROPHECY SAYS WE’RE NEXT; YES IT’S COMING. I REPEAT THE LINE FROM “CAPONE” AGAIN (SEE ABOVE):
“WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?”
gravenimage says
In 2001 according to the census almost three-quarters of Austrians are Catholic, and an additional 10%+ are Protestant or Orthodox. In other words, the vast majority of Austrians are Christian.
blitz2b says
Austria: beautiful country, beautiful culture, beautiful people…. Now insert Islam, their hideous mosques bastardized from unused churches with crescents on the capped spires where crosses once proudly pointed skywards, and monotonous green domes an abomination on these majestic Gothic structures, sacred art stained glasses that once donned the high windows, replaced by colored, geometric functional ” window coverings”… Clearly oppressive by European standards, are the women of Islam garbed in burquas, pushing babies in strollers, with a toddler attached to the waist and another in her belly. Bearded men, sans mustache, outpace the weaker sex by a few steps walk proudly with and pants hovering above the ankles, indicative of the sunnah of his prophet and an insidious dawah machine, glaring with hate at the shameless half-naked women infidels he sees around him…
Pretty gloomy picture? Well that is Islam for you. This picture looked nice and exotic in the backdrop of camel dotted, sand dunes and dusty streets, with the bustle of bazaars and bargainings of scenes from Arabian Nights, but when these are transposed into your own landscape, it makes your skin crawl….
And just as a disclaimer, if anyone thought the above sounds utterly racist, consider this, I’m not white, lived in an Islamic hell hole, migrated to the west, only to find hell followed me not far behind…
Malcolm (South Afric) says
@ gravenimage
Very good question, as always gravenimage.
There are many indications that a change, is coming in Europe. It seems history repeats itself, we have to reach rock bottom before we react to the dangers of Islam.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/austria-to-close-seven-mosques-expel-imams-in-radicalism-crackdown/
gravenimage says
Malcolm, we *have* seen some good signs in Europe–in Hungary, in Poland, in Switzerland, and in Italy.
I hope we see many more!
Richard says
gravenimage: Until its union with Nazi Germany, Austria used to be a Catholic country – if not THE Catholic country. More than that, after world War One, it was all that was left of the Holy Roman Empire, whose Emperor had veto power over whomever the cardinals elected as pope. Before Austria was absorbed by Germany in the 1930s, one period in school each day was reserved for priests to teach the children the Catholic religion. Nazi Germany took that out and substituted the time period for teaching the kids about the importance of a unified German nation. Politically, this made sense, but it was also gravely insulting to God I do not now if they have periods of priests teaching kids today. I would imagine Austria is still mainly Catholic today, as would be Bavaria.
gravenimage says
Yes–Austria is majority Catholic. I just hadn’t seen any clear indication that this class was being taught by priests.
gravenimage says
About ten percent of schools in Austria are Catholic parochial schools, but it looks as thought state-run schools are officially secular. I’m not sure how that plays out day to day. It certainly doesn’t take this Islamicization into account.
TheBuffster says
Graven, I think you might be correct, that this is not a Catholic school. But I made the same error as Walter (and even referred to it as being a church school in a post above). I got the impression it was a Catholic School because the article talked about Catholic, rather than Christian, children. I think that’s what caused the impression – because the brand of Christianity mentioned was specifically Catholic in regard to the kids.
After reading the article through a second time I realise that it only calls the school “an elementary school”, not a Catholic one.
gravenimage says
Austria: Catholic children forced to learn Islamic songs at elementary school, punished if they refused
…………………..
More suicidal insanity and enforcement of Shari’ah. That this is being imposed on children is all the worse.
Kudos to these parents for standing up!
andra says
In Germany they even do it in pre-school.
gravenimage says
Disgusting but not surprising, Andra.
Kay says
It is brainwashing. Do parents object?
andra says
You hear seldom of parents opposing against the islamisation of their children. The German parents are chickens.
In many German Schools they only serve halal food. During Ramadan the non-satanists are not allowed to eat and drink in front of the Muslim students. Christian holydays get renamed or suppressed. During ramadam they do not write class tests but the Christian Lent is ignored.
gravenimage says
Andra–German children are really not allowed to eat at school for the entire month of Ramadan?
I’ve read several articles about Ramadan in German schools–like this one–but nowhere does it say that Infidel children are being forced to fast:
https://www.worldcrunch.com/culture-society/hungry-students-postponed-exams-ramadan-in-german-schools
Are things even worse there than this implies? What happens to Muslim children who are not fasting? Is the German state enforcing Shari’ah on all children?
andra says
@gravenimage
They are not directly forced to fast but the canteens are closed in many schools and the pupils are not allowed to eat in public.
Richard says
By the way, we are getting the same thing here. I live in Wheeling, West Virginia, (a conservative religious area) and a lady here told me her daughter was failed because she had a school test on Evolution and said No one in her family believe in it. They are all religious and believe in creation by God. For this, she was failed. That really is intimidation by schools. Bea’s book, Darwin’s Black Box, is written by a scientist and shows on a biochemical level how Evolution is utterly impossible. Students don’t have the option of using that. It’s like the old lawyer’s question: :Answer yes or no: Do you still beat your wife?”
j_not_a says
If I were a parent at this school, I would contact the Austrian Chancellor Sebastian Kurz, about this, anyone at the local level probably wouldn’t give a damn. Get this in the media.
andra says
You will not get this in the MSM. If they wrote about it they would celebrate it as multicultural integration and call refusing parents Nazi, Islamophobes and racists.
Muhammed Jacob says
Bobby, Bobby, Bobby!
The Pope, the Jesuits and the Vatican are all behind the influx of Muslims into Europe and the West!
Is the Roman Catholic Catechism’s view on the Muslim god wrong?
According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church,1 paragraph 841, Muslims together with the Catholics, “adore the one, merciful God.” This cannot be true. The Muslims and Catholics do not adore the same God. In order to provide sufficient context for the quote from the Catechism, I have cited 2 paragraphs before and after paragraph 841.
839 “Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.”[325] The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,[326] “the first to hear the Word of God.”[327] The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”,[328] “for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.”[329]
840 And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.
841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”[330]
842 The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race: All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .[331]
843 “The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as ‘a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.’
The Plan, the NWO, is to bring all three religions, Judaism, Christendom & Islam together and have its Headquarters in Jerusalem.
CogitoErgoSum says
I would suggest the following sentence from the Catechism be re-written with the removal of the words in brackets:
“The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge [the] a Creator, [in the first place] amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, [and together with us] and they adore [the one,] a [merciful God] god whom they accept in place of Christ as mankind’s judge on the last day.”
Richard says
andra. You are exactly right and the first I’ve seen to dare say so. This is why Germans are so supine about letting in the muslims to kill, rape and pillage. They are terrified of being called Nazis. Worse the Arab muslims are Semites, opening the Germans to the charge of antisemitism. The Germans have been systematically whipped by this for seventy years. Running for cover becomes habitual.
Richard says
The Barque of Peter is capsizing! Since Vatican II, the Church has increasingly gone haywire more and more. It is now moving to accept homosexual marriages, adultery and perhaps women priests. The Pope has dared to say that hell does not exist, even though our Lord talked about hell three times as much as He did about heaven.If you go to a Novus Ordo “Catholic” Mass, take your Bible and go in advance to mark down what the readings will be. then follow their reading with your Bible. In our Cathedral, their “Scripture reading” is edited to remove condemnations of adultery, homosexuality &c. Male pronouns are removed whenever they can be and the Blessed Virgin Mary is no longer “full of grace”, but “favored one”, like a lady of he evening in a haram. It stands for nothing. Some churches actually have a crucifix they call Christa. it is our Lord with BREASTS. I am a Traditional Catholic and assist an at traditional Latin Mass (pre-Vatican II). People are swarming out of the Novus Ordo Church because of this. Dioceses are selling off their churches right and left, but will; not allow a traditional group to buy them. Years ago, a friend arranged for us to have lunch with a famous Catholic theologian, during which we were informed that sexual sins no longer exist because they were tied to heathen religions, and because the heathen religions no longer exist, those things are no longer sinful. He then added that there are no sins anyway because Christ’s death took them all away. As we were walking back to our car, my friend turned to me and said: “Richard, if you do what that man says, you will go straight to hell!”
Tricia Stuercke says
Richard, I could cry right now! What Diocese are you in? I’m gonna check the Cathedral of the Madeleine in SLC, UT (mine) tomorrow! We’re blessed with some beautiful, traditional priests here, but yes…The Church is in grave danger. Please have an open heart & mind for this: there’s an almost 10yr long set of prophetic, end times-specific apparitions & messages coming out of Argentina…most prophetic since Fatima (by far!). Now, those who are “awake” should be compelled to immediately check the messages out when I say the following: The 1 person who was in the best position to know of these messages & their importance was Archbishop of Buenos Aires, Jorge Bergolio… now “Pope” Francis. I will just finish with this: Jesus Christ Himself chose Judas…for a reason. The messages can be seen at:
revelacionesmarianas.com
The Church will face Schism, Christianity will return to House-Church status. The prophecies are bleak, but make sense of ALL THAT’S HAPPENING AROUND THE WORLD! ALL ACTIVE VOLCANO CATASTROPHES WERE PROPHECIED, ALL TERRORISM & PUBLIC UNREST…IT IS ALL EXPLAINED. THE HEIRARCHY ARE KEEPING HIS WORDS & WARNINGS FROM HIS PEOPLE.
revelacionesmarianas.com
(I have nothing to do with this what so ever…just living a life of suffering for My Lord & this “appeared” on my screen 1 yr ago. After much discernment & comparison to apparitions with proven prophecies, I know to my core these are supposed to be known & discerned by Christ’s people. Blessings to all!
revelacionesmarianas.com
Lydia Church says
“Because of the signs it was given to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived those who dwell on the earth, telling them to make an image to the beast that had been wounded by the sword and yet had lived.” Revelation 13; 14
False (occultic) signs and wonders will be part of the end times show down. The devil can counterfeit these just like the magicians of Pharaoh before Moses. ‘Miracles’ are not a sign that something is validated by God so don’t be fooled by that. God’s power is stronger of course and overcomes the occult evil forces. But false signs and wonders will deceive most of the world into worshipping antichrist. Those who resist will be executed.
1. Turn your life over to Jesus and read the Bible.
2. Don’t pray to or worship anyone but GOD.
3. The antichrist is already here and you mentioned him by name. Sort of like a second Judas…
4. There will be a global persecution of Christians and it has already begun but will only get worse. The danger is not dying for the Christian faith. The danger is not dying for the faith but denying it instead to save your life.
Richard says
Dear Tricia: Thank you for your lovely note.You are so lucky being in Utah, a conservative state. You sound traditional, which make me vey happy. All I need is another battle with left wing Catholics. Years ago, I had left a traditional church here and was trying desperately to accept the Novus Ordo. I went into St. Michel’s church in Wheeling and was praying the stations of the Cross on my knees when I saw a first class relic of St. John Vianney. As he is the Patron Saint of priests, I kissed it and prayed to him for a good priest. A few days later I received a letter from a lady I knew from a traditional church in Orange County, CA, writing me from Utah. She was the most respected woman in our chapel. She said a wonderful priest she had in Utah was moving to West Virginia and she had talked to him about me and he wanted to meet me. Ye gods, what a priest!!! Monsignor Bonczeski. The first thing he had done with his Utah church was to remove all the carpeting from around the altar rail in case the Blessed Sacrament was dropped.
I was present at a Mass in Wheeling Cathedral when a woman altar server dropped an entire ray of consecrated Hosts on the flor. She and the priest tried picking up he bigger pieces and putting them back in the tray, then went on with Holy Communion, with people walking back and forth over the pieces.. (There is a wonderful painting of his sort of thing with people’s bloody footprints as they return form receiving Communion).Well, after Communion, the priest walked out to talk with the parishioners. I stayed inside, kneeling in my pew and praying. It seemed like an eternity and he never came back to finish removing the remains of Our Lord, while dozens of people were standing on them and walking back and forth over them, talking away. finally, I went back to my car, got some holy water and sprinkled it over the spot. THEN the priest returned and let an altar server cleanse the place.
After that horror story, I will continue to say Monsignor WIlliam Bonczeski is a Maronite priest and the first thing he did in his Wheeling parish was to remove the flags from the sanctuary and replace them with statues of Mary and Joseph. For this, he was flooded with a lot of anonymous hate mail. Then, horror of horrors, he told the parishioners he would not allow their belly dancers performing for the Feast of the Assumption, as they always had under the former priest or priests. He was the priest if my dreams! The parish did not agree and got him transferred to Fairlawn, Ohio, and got their former priest back and, after flyers put out at the Cathedral inviting parishioners to a Islamic lecture symbolized by a photo of the bible and Koran supporting one another(!) and others on lectures about heathen religion, I gave up on the modern Church and went back to Fr. Carley’s. I far prefer the Maronite to the Latin Rite. It is older and we have the actual Aramaic words of Jesus at Mass. Or should. the Maronite Bishops of America have them speaking English now. Even though the rule of the Rite demands Mass facing away from the parishioners and all in Aramaic.If you get a chance to hear it, listen to the Lord’s Prayer in Aramaic (the language Jesus spoke it in). The entire prayer is poetry. This is lost in translation. Most importantly, though, are the inner meanings. There are loads of prophecies. One a friend in Orange, California, is always quoting is “Rome will lose its faith and become the seat of the Antichrist.” That may happen or have already happened. There have been a number of horrible popes. I think Francis is by far the worst. You know, Rome approved the prophecies at La Salette, then turned around and disapproved them. The Antichrist may also be xiptla of Sigurdr Volsung.
Sorry I am running on and on. I had better close this as I am sure the folks on the web site are fed up with it. I’m cutting a lot out. Sorry for the long rant.
May God bless you and keep you always!.
Richard the Rotten
gravenimage says
Muhammed Jacob wrote:
Bobby, Bobby, Bobby!
The Pope, the Jesuits and the Vatican are all behind the influx of Muslims into Europe and the West!
…………………….
The current pontiff is clueless about the threat of Islam, no doubt–and this is very dangerous.
But the same thing is happening in European nations that are primarily Protestant or Secular.
Your idea that the Catholic Church controls immigration policy in quite mistaken.
You find dhimmitude from many sources–Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, and Atheist–as well, thank goodness, as finding some strong Anti-Jihadists in all of these groups–including Robert Spencer himself, of course.
Muhammed Jacob says
YOU DO ERR!
The Old World Order was the Papacy for 1500 years until the Reformation and the Renaissance. The Jesuits were created as Counter Reformation and set out to destroy Protestantism, which brought Freedom of Thought and Freedom of Expression. Ignatius Loyola was a Marrano and a member of the original Illuminati. All 3 religions – Judaism, Romanism & Islam are based on the Jewish Bible. Mystery Babylon.
The first and second World Wars were created to destroy the Russian Orthodox church and the German Protestant church.
The book Rulers of Evil by Tupper Saussy exposes the power of the Vatican in America.
6 Roman Catholics and 3 Jews control the American Supreme Court!
Google: The RED Mass and The BLUE Mass.
See how the Vatican controls America from the bottom to the top.
Vietnam Why Did We Go?
The Religious Beginnings of an Unholy War
The Shocking Story of the Catholic “Church’s” Role in Starting the Vietnam War
By Avro Manhattan
Avro Manhattan was the world’s foremost authority on Roman Catholicism in politics. A resident of London, during World War II he operated a radio station called “Radio Freedom” broadcasting to occupied Europe.
He was the author of over 20 books including the best-seller The Vatican in World Politics, twice Book-of-the-Month and going through 57 editions. He was a Great Briton who risked his life daily to expose some of the darkest secrets of the Papacy. His books were #1 on the Forbidden Index for the past 50 years!!
Those who control religion see Atheists and Agnostics as their biggest danger, so they are allowing Islam a Free Run in the West to crush Free Thought and Free Expression.
The Papacy and Freemasonry, Knights of Malta, Bilderberg Group, CFR, Trilateral Commission are all working together to bring in the NWO. Islam is being used to destroy our freedoms.
If you keep beating out the same anti-Muslim jargon – WITHOUT – understanding the REAL enemy, people like Kissinger, Soros, Sutherland and CO, then you have been fooled!
The ELITE are allowing the Muslims into Europe and allowing them to create CHAOS.
Don’t you think for one minute that they could bring the army out and crush these Muslims?
KNOW YOUR ENEMY — YOUR REAL ENEMY!
Richard says
graveimage: Yes, the current pontiff seems to be doing al he can to wipe out every last vestige of Catholicism. This has been going on since Vatican II. The Catechism of the Church cited by mohammed jacob above is wrong in a number of ways and contrary to the Catechism of the Council of Trent. The Church has always taught that if someone does not know the Church and does the best he or she can in light of the lights given them, they can be saved. But in no way does it have the idea that other religions are acceptable. The Jews accept God the Father, but Reject God the Son and God the Holy Ghost. They are right in saying there is only one God, but their word for Him is Adonai, which is PLURAL. Singular would be Adono, which it isn’t. When God catches Adam sinning in Eden, in Genesis iii;22 He speaks to someone unnamed saying: “And he said: Behold Adam is become as one of us, knowing good and evil.” Who could the “us” be? Possibly it would be an angel or angels, but more likely it is the other two Persons of God. We see this again in Genesis xviii where it says of Abraham; “And when he had lifted up his eyes, there appeared to him three men standing near him: and as soon as he saw them he ran to meet them from the door of his tent, and adored down to the ground. And he said: Lord, if I have found favor in thy sight, pass not away from thy servant…And they said: Do as thou hast spoken…etc. If only one of the tree were “Lord”, only one of the three would have answered Abraham’s words to “Lord”. The Jews do worship part of our God, but in rejecting the other two Persons, they in effect reject God. Islam pretends to accept the Christian God, but at the same time it openly rejects Him, saying that both the Torah and Bible are wrong and only Mohammed got it right. That is wrong, but logical. We say the same things about he Sanhedrin who crucified Christ. The Muslims revere Jesus as a great prophet, and the Virgin Mary as the finest of women, but by rejecting Jesus as God, they reject God. I will say nothing of how Jesus would have felt about pedophilia and rape as a part of His religion, let alone Heaven being a place of constant drunken sexual orgies. It is like the difference between Catholics and protestants. Looking at the Real Presence of Christ in the Blessed Sacrament, If protestants are right, Catholics are idol worshippers. If Catholics are right, protestants are denying Christ. There are no minor matters in any real religion and for a catechism of any religion to try to gloss over them is deadly. Reading the Koran (especially translated by a Muslim or Christian readers) you can easily see a very beautiful religion. When you go behind the gloss and see the real meanings of the Islamic verses and their history, as we learn on this web site, however, it is quite another story! But how many people even know about the existence of this site, let alone follow it. We are very blessed!
gravenimage says
With all respect, Muhammed Jacob, most of what you cite is conspiracy theory nonsense. Robert Spencer is himself a devout Catholic.
And claiming that Islam is not a real threat is entirely mistaken.
Richard says
gravenimage. Your point that claiming Islam isn’t a real threat is entirely mistaken is undeniably true …. IF people get the information we have on this web site. The trouble is, it is being hidden by governments such as Sweden, Germany, America, France and especially England. Folks who speak out about it are actually jailed! If I hadn’t stumbled on this wonderful web site by accident, I would never have known this stuff. It’s like the story that surfaced on the internet a few weeks about a lady in China who thought she was buying a big puppydog and it turned out to be a bear. Something has to be done about getting this news out internationally.
gravenimage says
Richard wrote:
The Muslims revere Jesus as a great prophet, and the Virgin Mary as the finest of women, but by rejecting Jesus as God, they reject God. I will say nothing of how Jesus would have felt about pedophilia and rape as a part of His religion, let alone Heaven being a place of constant drunken sexual orgies. It is like the difference between Catholics and protestants
……………………………….
Richard, it is not just that the Muslim “Jesus”–really, “Isa”–is not the Savior. He is also not a healer or a peacemaker. He never advocated the Golden Rule or a loving God.
In fact, the main role of “Isa” in Islam is to *slaughter Christians* who do not convert to Islam in the last days.
And I actually consider the issue of pedophilia and rape in Islam to be very serious. I cannot imagine Jesus condoning rape, let alone the rape of children.
And–with all respect–this is *not* like “like the difference between Catholics and protestants”. Neither Catholics nor Protestants sacralize raping children. You are quite mistaken.
Older Canadian says
And this is happening in a country that said they will be closing about 6 mosques and deporting about 60 imams because of preaching hate and terror.
So what is their position? Reading the above article and mixing it with the mosque and imam announcement it looks like the pentacle of deception, and this time not coming from an islamist. Sounds like an EU elities all the way..
Fair is foul and foul is fair!
andra says
It is hard to say what the Austrian Government´s position is. You can hear from Austrians that many are not content with the Government´s actions, because they talk a lot and do little. Sebastian Kurz is not trustworthy because he is a fan of resettlement.
gravenimage says
Most Western countries are still woefully ignorant about Islam. Most do defend against Jihad–no matter how erratically–but fail to recognize the threat of Islam itself.
Older Canadian says
You are so right. I never thought about that concept before. It explains so much. Thank you for passing on your wisdom. So very much appreciated.
gravenimage says
Thank you so much, Older Canadian.
somehistory says
The mother should appeal to the prime minister…the one closing moslim barracks and sending moslims instigators of violence on their way out of the country.
She should write or call…whichever way is best in Austria…to get him to put an end to such abuse of authority, abuse of children..
housemusic1@frontier.com says
Religion must stay out of schools. All this does is creating antagonism and
separatism. Islam should never have an official say in a public school.
Islam would never tolerate the other way around.
They surely and slowly put their evil roots down…..
Muhammed Jacob says
Netanyahu Promises Talmud Will Be Israeli Law
June 14, 2015 by Infinite
Netanyahu-666netanyahu-not-wrong-just-evilNetanyahu
– Netanyahu Promises Talmud Will Be Israeli Law (Arutz Sheva, May 9, 2014):
Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu reportedly revealed at a Likud conference on Wednesday some remarkable facets of the Basic Law he submitted last Thursday, which would enshrine Israel’s status as the nation-state of the Jewish people.
Netanyahu told the head of Likud’s hareidi division Yaakov Vider at the conference that he intends to make the Hebrew calendar, which is based on Jewish law, the official calendar of Israel, reports Kikar Hashabat.
The new law also would establish the Talmud, the core work of Jewish law, as an official basis for Israeli state law.
“I’m going to personally be involved in the law defining the state of Israel as the nation-state of the Jewish people,” Netanyahu reportedly told Vider. “It’s a very important law that will influence how Israel will look in the future.”
“I want to anchor in this law, that it will be a Basic Law that the state of Israel arose and exists on the basis of the Torah and the Jewish tradition,” Netanyahu explained, promising to define the Hebrew calendar as the official state calendar.
Netanyahu also promised that “we will define in the law the Gemara as a basis for the Israeli legal system,” referencing the Jewish legal text analyzing the Mishnah, a legal work of the Jewish sages, which together form the Talmud.
Discussing the new Basic Law on Sunday in a cabinet meeting, Netanyahu stated “the existence of the State of Israel as a Jewish state does not actualize itself enough in our Basic Laws, which is what the proposed law aims to fix.”
Netanyahu stressed the law would not restrict the rights of non-Jewish citizens of Israel. He further dismissed opposition to the law by leftist MKs, foremost among them Justice Minister Tzipi Livni who pledged to block the law.
“They want a Palestinian national state to be built beside us, and to turn the State of Israel, meanwhile, into a bi-national state, Jewish-Arab, within our restricted borders,” Netanyahu argued, saying the new Basic Law would prevent such a situation.
“THE ORTHODOX JEWISH TALMUD IS ONE OF THE WONDERS OF THE WORLD”!
The official unabridged Soncino Edition of the Talmud published in 1935 was “Translated into English with Notes, Glossary and Indices” by such eminent Talmudic scholars as Rabbi Dr. I. Epstein, Rabbi Dr. Samuel Daiches, Rabbi Dr. Israel W. Slotki, M.A., Litt.D., The Reverend Dr. A. Cohen, M.A.’, Ph.D., Maurice Simon, M.A., and the Very Reverend The Chief Rabbi Dr. J.H. Hertz wrote the “Foreword” for the Soncino Edition of the Talmud. The Very Reverend Rabbi Hertz was at the time the Chief Rabbi of England.
The world’s leading authorities on the Talmud confirm that the official unabridged Soncino Edition of the Talmud translated into English follows the original texts with great exactness. It is almost a word-for-word translation of the original texts. In his famous classic “The History of the Talmud,” Michael Rodkinson, the leading authority on the Talmud, in collaboration with the celebrated Reverend Dr. Isaac M. Wise states:
“THE TALMUD IS ONE OF THE WONDERS OF THE WORLD. During the twenty centuries of its existence…IT SURVIVED IN ITS ENTIRETY, and not only has the power of its foes FAILED TO DESTROY EVEN A SINGLE LINE, but it has not even been able materially to weaken its influence for any length of time. IT STILL DOMINATES THE MINDS OF A WHOLE PEOPLE, WHO VENERATE ITS CONTENTS AS DIVINE TRUTH…”
SANHEDRIN, 55b-55a: “What is meant by this? – Rab said: Pederasty with a child below nine years of age is not deemed as pederasty with a child above that. Samuel said: Pederasty with a child below three years is not treated as with a child above that (2) What is the basis of their dispute? – Rab maintains that only he who is able to engage in sexual intercourse, may, as the passive subject of pederasty throw guilt (upon the actual offender); whilst he who is unable to engage in sexual intercourse cannot be a passive subject of pederasty (in that respect) (3). But Samuel maintains: Scriptures writes, (And thou shalt not lie with mankind) as with the lyings of a woman (4). It has been taught in accordance with Rab: Pederasty at the age of nine years and a day; (55a) (he) who commits bestiality, whether naturally or unnaturally: or a woman who causes herself to be bestiality abused, whether naturally or unnaturally, is liable to punishment (5).”
This “divine truth” which “a whole people venerate” of which “not a single letter of it is missing” and today “is flourishing to such a degree as cannot be found in its history” is illustrated by the additional verbatim quotations which follow:
SANHEDRIN, 55b: “A maiden three years and a day may be acquired in marriage by coition, and if her deceased husband’s brother cohabits with her, she becomes his. The penalty of adultery may be incurred through her; (if a niddah) she defiles him who has connection with her, so that he in turn defiles that upon which he lies, as a garment which has lain upon (a person afflicted with gonorrhea).”
(footnotes) “(2) His wife derives no pleasure from this, and hence there is no cleaving. (3) A variant reading of this passage is: Is there anything permitted to a Jew which is forbidden to a heathen. Unnatural connection is permitted to a Jew. (4) By taking the two in conjunction, the latter as illustrating the former, we learn that the guilt of violating the injunction `to his wife but not to his neighbor’s wife’ is incurred only for natural but not for unnatural intercourse.”
SANHEDRIN, 69b “Our rabbis taught: If a woman sported lewdly with her young son (a minor), and he committed the first stage of cohabitation with her, -Beth Shammai says, he thereby renders her unfit for the priesthood (1). Beth Hillel declares her fit…All agree that the connection of a boy nine years and a day is a real connection; whilst that of one less than eight years is not (2); their dispute refers only to one who is eight years old.
KETHUBOTH, 11a-11b. “Rabba said, It means (5) this: When a grown up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing, for when the girl is less than this (6), it is as if one puts the finger in the eye (7), but when a small boy has intercourse with a grown up woman, he makes her as `a girl who is injured by a piece of wood’ “.
(footnotes) “(5). Lit., `says’. (6) Lit., `here’, that is, less than three years old. (7) Tears come to the eyes again and again, so does virginity come back to the little girl under three years.”
KETHUBOTH, 11a-11b. “Rab Judah said that Rab said: A small boy who has intercourse with a grown up woman makes her (as though she were ) injured by a piece of wood (1). Although the intercourse of a small boy is not regarded as a sexual act, nevertheless the woman is injured by it as by a piece of wood.”
(footnotes) “(1) Although the intercourse of a small boy is not regarded as a sexual act, nevertheless the woman is injured by it as by a piece of wood.”
ABODAH ZARAH, 36b-37a. “R. Naham b. Isaac said: They decreed in connection with a heathen child that it would cause defilement by seminal emission (2) so that an Israelite child should not become accustomed to commit pederasty with it…From what age does a heathen child cause defilement by seminal emission? From the age of nine years and one day. (37a) for inasmuch as he is then capable of the sexual act he likewise defiles by emission. Rabina said: It is therefore to be concluded that a heathen girl (communicates defilement) from the age of three years and one day, for inasmuch as she is then capable of the sexual act she likewise defiles by a flux.
SOTAH, 26b. “R. Papa said: It excludes an animal, because there is not adultery in connection with an animal (4). Raba of Parazika (5) asked R. Ashi, Whence is the statement which the Rabbis made that there is no adultery in connection with an animal? Because it is written, Thou shalt not bring the hire of a harlot or the wages of a dog etc.; (6) and it has been taught: The hire of a dog (7) and the wages of a harlot (8) are permissible, as it is said, Even both of these (9) – the two (specified texts are abominations) but not four (10)…As lying with mankind. (12) But, said Raba, it excludes the case where he warned her against contact of the bodies (13). Abaye said to him, That is merely an obscene act (and not adultery), and did the All-Merciful prohibit (a wife to her husband) for an obscene act?”
Of the “sacred” Talmudic teachings of the “Sages,” preserved since 500 A.D. and taught more widely today than ever before in Talmud-Torah schools in the U.S.A., perhaps nothing better illustrates “fools” with “reprobate minds” than the teaching in the Talmud book of Yebamoth that spittle on the top of the bed curtain proves that a wife has been guilty of adultery, as only lying down face upwards could she have spit up on it. Spitting several feet straight up! The Talmud states: “When a peddler leaves a house and the woman within is fastening her sinnar [breech-cloth] … . If spittle is found on the upper part of the curtained bed she must, said Rabbi, go.” Footnote: “Even if there were no witnesses that misconduct took place.” Further footnote: “Only the woman lying face upwards could have spat on the spot. Intercourse may, there fore, be suspected.”
gravenimage says
What a load of crap.
Israel is *not* a theocracy, as the dishonest Muhammed Jacob pretends. Note that I can find *no such* article at Arutz Sheva.
Some of those “Talmudic” citations are well-known fakes, as well–I’m not going to wade through all of them now.
In any case, pedophilia is *not* legal in Israel–it is in much of the Muslim world, though, on the model of the psychotic “Prophet”.
Muhammed Jacob says
JESUS IN THE TALMUD:
WHAT THE ANCIENT RABBIS SAID ABOUT JESUS THAT MADE THE JEWS REJECT HIM AS THEIR MESSIAH
The Talmud teaches that Jesus Christ was illegitimate and was conceived during menstruation; that he had the soul of Esau; that he was a fool, a conjurer, a seducer; that he was crucified, buried in hell and set up as an idol ever since by his followers.
CONCERNING THE NAMES OF JESUS CHRIST
Many passages in the Talmudic books treat of the birth, life, death and teachings of Jesus Christ. He is not always referred to by the same name, however, but is diversely called “That Man,” “A Certain One,” “The Carpenter’s Son,” “The One Who Was Hanged,” etc.
1. The real name of Christ in Hebrew is Jeschua Hanotsri—Jesus the Nazarene. He is called Notsri from the city of Nazareth in which he was brought up. Thus in the Talmud Christians also are called Notsrim—Nazarenes.
Since the word Jeschua means “Savior,” the name Jesus rarely occurs in Jewish books.(1) It is almost always abbreviated to Jeschu, which is maliciously taken as if it were composed of the initial letters of the three words Immach SCHemo Vezikro—”May his name and memory be blotted out.”(2)
(1) ex. gr. in Maiene ieschua, fol. 66b
(2) cf. I. Buxtorf in Abbrev. Jeschu: “The Jews among themselves do not say Jeschu, but Isschu, so nearly corresponding to the words of this curse. When talking to a certain Jew about this some years ago he told me that it not only meant this, but also Jeschu Scheker (liar) Utoebah (and abomination). Who would not be deeply horrified at this? This Jew lived at Frankfort and at Hanover and had travelled all over the world. When he saw how this horrified me, his faith in Judaism began to weaken, for he was not adverse to the Christian faith and had often discussed it with me and Dr. Amando Polano. I also discovered here and there two other secret words from the Jewish Cabala which have to do with this name. It is well known that the Israelites are often warned in their sacred writings to shun the worship of Elohe Nekhar—strange gods or god. What does Elohe Nekhar really mean? By the numbering method of the Gammatria these letters equal 316, which taken together make the word Jeschu. This is found at the end of the book Abhkath Rokhel. They therefore teach that to dishonor God by the worship of Elohe Nekhar is the same as to dishonor him by the worship of Jeschu. Behold the malice of the serpent! Antonius also found a marginal note in a book about the Jewish faith and religion. In a Jewish prayer book there is a certain prayer beginning with Alenu… Formerly the wording contained certain things which were afterwards deleted for fear of the Christians, but the space remains vacant to warn children and adults that something is omitted there. The deleted words were hammischtachavim lehebhel varik umitpallelim lelo ioschia “Those who bow down exhibit vanity and foolishness and adore him who cannot save.” This is generally said about idols, but is secretly meant for Jesus whose name is here signified by the letters…”
2. In the Talmud Christ is called Otho Isch—’That man,’ i.e. the one who is known to all. In the tract Abhodah Zarah, 6a, we read:
“He is called a Christian who follows the false teachings of that man, who taught them to celebrate the feast on the first day of the Sabbath, that is, to worship on the first day after the Sabbath”
3. Elsewhere he is simply called Peloni—”A Certain One.” In Chagigah, 4b, we read:
“Mary…the mother of a certain one, of whom it is related in Schabbath…” (104b)
That this Mary is none other than the mother of Jesus will be shown later.
4. Out of contempt, Jesus is also called Naggar bar naggar—’the carpenter son of a carpenter’,(3) also Ben charsch etaim—’the son of a wood worker.’
(3) cf. Abhodah Zarah, 50b.
5. He is also called Talui—’the one who was hanged.’ Rabbi Samuel, the son of Meir, in the Hilch. Akum of Maimonides, refers to the fact that it was forbidden to take part in the Christian feasts of Christmas and Easter because they were celebrated on account of him who was hanged. And Rabbi Aben Ezra, in a commentary on Genes.(XXVII, 39) also calls him Talui, whose image the Emperor Constantine reproduced on his banner. “…in the days of Constantine, who made a change of religion and placed the figure of the one who was hanged on his banner.”
Richard says
Yes, gravenimage. Israel was founded by non-observant (secular) Jews. Businesses are open on the sabbath. Many or most Orthodox Jews do not accept its existence on the grounds that when Israel becomes a state it will be re-founded by God. A few years ago, one of those Orthodox rabbis met with the head of Iran and they joyfully hugged one another. One of Israel’s biggest sources of income comes from Christian pilgrims. If Israel was indeed a religious state, it could not allow that in good conscience. That was the sort of thing King Solomon did that broke the country apart.
gravenimage says
I’m not going to wade through all of this from Muhammed Jacob. In any case, none of it addresses his calumny against Israel.
The truth is that Israel is the *only* country in the Middle East where Christians are both completely free to practice their faith and are not at risk for persecution or violence. Robert Spencer has noted this many times.
gravenimage says
Richard, there are actually lots of Orthodox Jews in Israel. The idea that they all prefer the Shari’ah horrors of the Islamic Republic of Iran to civilized Israel is just calumny.
The European says
This is just another step toward islamization.
In earlier times, Ottoman Turks snatched young children away from their Christian parents to turn them into Islamic fighting machines: the janissaries.
Today, they make them sing Islamic hymns -Islamic indoctrination in elementary schools
In Germany, schoolclasses are regularly visiting mosques. Their teachers tell them to behave like Muslims: “take off your shoes, Imitate Muslim prayer gestures, recite the schahaddah ( well, they don’t tell them that, but that might come as well)
Ever seen a Muslim besprinkling himself with Holy water or making the sign of the cross when entering a Catholic church?
Muhammed Jacob says
IF THE POPE OF ROME SAYS HE AND MUSLIMS WORSHIP THE SAME GOD, WHAT’S THE PROBLEM?
CogitoErgoSum says
I’ll bet a fellow who sometimes visits here going by the name of Ibrahim will be able to answer that one for you.
Richard says
The fact Pope Francis doesn’t know what he’s talking about. he’s now denying he existence of hell. Christians worship One God in three persons. Muslims only accept One Person, as do he Jews, although the y address God as Adonai – which is plural. Singular would be Adono. Muslims revere Jesus, but only as a prophet. There is no way to say that is the same as Christianity, and the Moslems know it. In any event, I do not see Christians attacking Muslim lands to force conversions. Just the opposite: repeatedly the past few decades we have been responsible for destroying Arab countries such as Irarq whose second in command was Christian. Now we are going after Syria, whose present government protects Christians. We have seen the massacres of Christians in Iraq since we “liberated” it. I won’t even mention our role in the Balkins, where ewe started bombing the Christians on Good Friday to help Bosnia obtain freedom for the Muslims who had immigrated into it and wanted to take over.
Kathy says
Sorry, but you are misinformed here: the term “Adonai” means “MY Lords” while the term “Adono” would mean “HIS Lords”, not the singular of Lord.
The terms “Elohim” or “Elokim” indicate God in the plural. The use of the plural for God is intentional, to make it clear that God is not a physical, quantifiable, individual entity but rather a spiritual entity without limit and without boundaries, a heavenly power that cannot be counted as we would count physical entities. Based on this understanding of God as a non-physical entity, the Christian interpretation of God as being three separate, individual entities really makes no sense at all.
Berengaria says
I sincerely thought that Austrians were reclaiming their Country, after the last Election. I fear that it’s too late to turn back the Islamic Invasion, because so many Muslims & Muslim Sympathizers are ensconced in the Austrian Government.
The Schools are where the Islamists are able to capture the minds of your Children, it is time to get Very Serious!
Westman says
The Ayatollah lied! He said there was no music in Islam….
Richard says
There are loads of beautiful songs and instrumental music in the Islamic world. Whether it is “legal” or not I do not know, but I can’t imagine it being illegal or those trafficking in it would be beheaded.
Westman says
He also said there was no fun in Islam. Somehow one gets the feeling that he’s just another Muhammad-wanna-be who wants rule the world. No wonder the Sunnis(and fun-loving Iranians) want to erase his successor and his perverse no-joy brand.
gravenimage says
Actually, a lot of Muslims *do* threaten or even murder those who make music.
Michael Copeland says
“Commanding the Right and Forbidding the Wrong……..
such as by breaking musical instruments…”
Manual of Islamic Law, “Reliance of the Traveller”, q 5.6
Richard says
Muslims threaten everyone with their individual views of what is evil. Personally, I think a lot of it is a power game on their part. There is a lot of Islamic music available for purchase. Fairuz (“Turquoise”) is a sensation in the Arab world, though she is a Christian. I lived in a part of Los Angeles called “Little Tehran” for all the Persians living there. On weekends, many of the houses were blaring Persian music. Of course, most or all of that may have been Persian Jews, as they fled here for their lives after the Islamic revolution. But why would the Jews be playing Persian music? If it were Jewish music, they still could not have developed a skill for it in a country where it could mean their deaths. An answer may be that Persians may have developed that music under the liberal Shah. I have no idea.
gravenimage says
Richard, I never denied that there is music-making in parts of the Muslim world. But music–except for instrument-less Islamic Nasheeds–is condemned in Islam, and this is often enforced.
Note that many of the Persians you cite *escaped* Iran under the Mullahs.
In the same way, there are Vietnamese here who are devout Christians and Buddhists–that does not mean that there is religious freedom under the Communists in Vietnam.
Iran never had full freedom, but it was freer under the Shah than it is now after the Islamic revolution in 1979.
IanB says
Your subjective opinion that “(T)here are loads of beautiful songs and instrumental music in the Islamic world” may be agreed by some but I know of no Islamic music of the musical quality and spiritual transcendence of that by Johann Sebastian Bach, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart and Ludwig van Beethoven.
Graven image is right. Moslems have threatened and killed musicians.
I enjoy and admire music from Mali but Islamic puritans tried and have failed to ban music there. As a commenter says: outlawing music is like trying to stop the wind from blowing.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/29/mali-music-festivals-songhoy-blues-bamako
https://freemuse.org/news/afghanistan-musicians-kidnapped-by-taliban/
https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/130121-13-musicians-artists-killed-Pakistan-since-2008
Muhammed Jacob says
MUHAMMAD’S TOP 10 HIT:
Mad Muslim Rising
I see the mad Muslims a-rising
I see trouble on the way
I see earthquakes and lightning
I see bad times today
Don’t go around tonight
Well, their bound to take your life
There’s mad Muslims on the rise
I hear hurricanes a-blowing
I know the end is coming soon
I fear rivers overflowing
I hear the Muslim voice of rage and ruin
Don’t go around tonight
Well, their bound to take your life
There’s mad Muslims on the rise
All right
Hope you got your things together
Hope you are quite prepared to die
Looks like we’re in for nasty weather
One eye is taken for an eye
Don’t go around tonight
Well, their bound to take your life
There’s mad Muslims on the rise
Don’t go around tonight
Well, their bound to take your life
There’s mad Muslims on the rise
(Apologies to Clearance Clear Water Revival)
CogitoErgoSum says
Muhammad Jacob, actually your apologies should go to Creedence Clearwater Revival. And for many years I thought the refrain from their song “Bad Moon Rising” went like this:
Don’t go ’round tonight.
It’s bound to take your life.
There’s a bathroom on the right.
Richard says
IanB: Thank you for the web sites! I have no doubt Muslims have tried to kill musicians. That is a power play. It is also right in many people’s minds. Followers of the Mahdi used to sew patches on their clothes to denote poverty. There are loads of nuts and sects. Does the Qur’an condemn music? Music may well be illegal in Islamic countries, but it still exists, or all I have heard is fraudulent – which is possible. No, I could not compare Islamic music to that of Bellini, but for that matter, I really love Native American music that would drive most folks up the wall. Opinions on music, art, food and literature are always subjective. Have you ever heard Fairuz (Turquoise. Don’t know the exact spelling of her name)? Yes, she’s a Lebanese Christian, but when she went into Syria for a concert a few years back, huge crowds met her at the border. She is or was the most popular singer in the Arab world and her voice is haunting. Again, though, that is a matter of taste. Thank you and God bless you..
gravenimage says
Thank you for all the links, Ian.
gravenimage says
Richard wrote:
I have no doubt Muslims have tried to kill musicians. That is a power play. It is also right in many people’s minds. Followers of the Mahdi used to sew patches on their clothes to denote poverty. There are loads of nuts and sects.
…………………….
Richard, this is not about fringe sects–the condemnation of music is mainstream Islam, and comes from the “Prophet” himself.
From the Hadith:
Narrated Abu ‘Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash’ari: that he heard the Prophet saying, “From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, ‘Return to us tomorrow.’ Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection.”
Sahih Bukhari 7:69:494
Anas reported that the Prophet said: In this Ummah there will be punishments of earthquakes, showers of stones and deformity; that will be when the people drink khamr, listen to female singers and play musical instruments.
Al-Tirmidhi, No. 2212
“On the Day of Resurrection, Allah will pour molten lead into the ears of whoever sits listening to a songstress.”
“Song makes hypocrisy grow in the heart as water does herbage.”
And here is a classical Fiqh–Islamic law–decision:
(Nawawi:) It is unlawful to use musical instruments—such as those which drinkers are known for, like the mandolin, lute, cymbals, and flute—or to listen to them. (Mughni al-muhtaj ila ma’rifa ma’ani alfaz al-Minhaj (y73), 4.429-30).
Music has only flourished where Islam is laxly enforced. The first thing that Jihadists did after they took over Mali was shut down its famous music festival.
gravenimage says
I should add that while music is considered un-Islamic, that it is useful here for Islamicizing these children.
Muslims regularly use our own freedoms against us.
Japetto Danatelli says
These are the stories that really make you mad, beating up on the kids like this. And kid’s minds are so pliable, too, they sponge almost anything you throw their way. And the evil bureaucrats know this, they want to brain wash them while they’re young. Sinister b*stards. Parents should be outraged over any religious indoctrination in school, but islam brings it to a whole new level. Most parents know by now that islam is little different from Nazism in its methods and goals, you’d never want your kids to think islam is okay to like or learn. It’s evil, frankly, I know this from the deepest part of my psyche and soul. And if any muslims are truly nice and good it’s despite their “religion,” not because of it. This is nothing but an attempt to hijack their little minds for islam. It would be like teaching all the good things Hitler did for his nation’s infrastructure and economy while ignoring the genocide and war. I’m not joking here, it’s no different in my mind. To cherry pick some goodies from that filthy religion to make it look legitimate and wholesome is a terrible act of misrepresentation for our kids. Shame shame shame on you.
Parents are right in being angry over this. They should attack this propaganda as if it were the greatest evil on earth, because it is. Muslims are already stealing our neighborhoods, our safety, our freedoms, and our kids to rape, if they steal our minds then we got nothing left. Fight back! against these evil pr*cks who want to rob us of our safety, our identity, and our freedoms.
Japetto Danatelli says
…and one more thought,
This school and the connivers behind such actions are like a pervert that pulls up in a dirty van and offers your kid an ice cream cone. They know that kid’s innocent mind is going to take the bait and off they go to their doom. I encourage any parent who sees even a hint of indoctrination for this sham religion to hit ’em with everything you got, sue them if you have to, but never give an inch. Islam is like a radioactive gas that poisons everything it touches, or like a cancer that grows deadly from the tiniest spot. We gotta be extra wise and determined about islam, the left has granted them religious protection for their jihad agenda because it serves their own multicultural power grab. It’s one of the greatest evil alliances in history in my opinion. Thousands are terrorized and murdered, and islamic supremacy is thriving on their complicity and so is the consequent oppression it causes. It’s literally a war against decent humanity, human rights and freedom depend solely on what we do right here and now, this generation. We have the truth on our side, the best morality, and the help of any good god that might exist, I’m sure. In the end we will win, but only if we want to.
Muhammed Jacob says
ACCORDING TO POPE FRANCIS, MUHAMMAD, ABU BAKR, UMAR & CO ARE IN HEAVEN
BUT HISTORY TELLS US THEY WERE BLOODY DEMONIC/JINN POSSESSED SAVAGES:
EARLY MUSLIM JIHADS DESTROYED CHRISTIANITY IN THE MIDDLE EAST
The Timeline
630 Two years before Muhammad’s death of a fever, he launches the Tabuk Jihad, in which he led 30,000 jihadists against the Byzantine Christians. He had heard a report that a huge army had amassed to attack Arabia, but the report turned out to be a false rumor. The Byzantine army never materialized. He turned around and went home, but not before extracting ‘agreements’ from northern tribes. They could enjoy the ‘privilege’ of living under Islamic ‘protection’ (read: not be attacked by Islam), if they paid a tax (jizya).
This tax sets the stage for Muhammad’s and the later Caliphs’ policies. If the attacked city or region did not want to convert to Islam, then they paid a jizya tax. If they converted, then they paid a zakat tax. Either way, money flowed back to the Islamic treasury in Arabia or to the local Muslim governor.
632—634 Under the Caliphate of Abu Bakr the Muslim Jihadists reconquer and sometimes conquer for the first time the polytheists of Arabia. These Arab polytheists had to convert to Islam or die. They did not have the choice of remaining in their faith and paying a tax. Islam does not allow for religious freedom.
633 The Muslim Jihadists, led by Khalid al — Walid, a superior but bloodthirsty military commander, whom Muhammad nicknamed the Sword of Allah for his ferocity in battle (Tabari, 8:158 / 1616—17), conquer the city of Ullays along the Euphrates River (in today’s Iraq). Khalid captures and beheads so many that a nearby canal, into which the blood flowed, was called Blood Canal (Tabari 11:24 / 2034—35).
634 At the Battle of Yarmuk in Syria the Muslim Jihadists defeat the Byzantines. Osama bin Laden drew inspiration from the defeat, and especially from an anecdote about Khalid al—Walid.
An unnamed Muslim remarks:
‘The Romans are so numerous and the Muslims so few.’
To this Khalid retorts:
‘How few are the Romans, and how many the Muslims! Armies become numerous only with victory and few only with defeat, not by the number of men. By God, I would love it . . . if the enemy were twice as many’ (Tabari, 11:94 / 2095).
Osama bin Ladin quotes Khalid and says that his fighters love death more than we in the West love life.
This philosophy of death probably comes from a verse like Sura 2:96. Muhammad assesses the Jews:
‘[Prophet], you are sure to find them [the Jews] clinging to life more eagerly than any other people, even polytheists’ (MAS Abdel Haleem, The Qur’an, Oxford UP, 2004; first insertion in brackets is Haleem’s; the second mine).
634—644 The Caliphate of Umar ibn al—Khattab, who is regarded as particularly brutal.
635 Muslim jihadists besiege and conquer of Damascus
636 Muslim jihadists defeat Byzantines decisively at Battle of Yarmuk.
637 Muslim jihadists conquer Iraq at the Battle of al—Qadisiyyah (some date it in 635 or 636)
638 Muslim jihadists conquer and annex Jerusalem, taking it from the Byzantines.
638—650 Muslim jihadists conquer Iran, except along Caspian Sea.
639—642 Muslim jihadists conquer Egypt.
641 Muslim jihadists control Syria and Palestine.
643—707 Muslim jihadists conquer North Africa.
644 Caliph Umar is assassinated by a Persian prisoner of war; Uthman ibn Affan is elected third Caliph, who is regarded by many Muslims as gentler than Umar.
644—650 Muslim jihadists conquer Cyprus, Tripoli in North Africa, and establish Islamic rule in Iran, Afghanistan, and Sind.
656 Caliph Uthman is assassinated by disgruntled Muslim soldiers; Ali ibn Abi Talib, son—in—law and cousin to Muhammad, who married the prophet’s daughter Fatima through his first wife Khadija, is set up as Caliph.
656 Battle of the Camel, in which Aisha, Muhammad’s wife, leads a rebellion against Ali for not avenging Uthman’s assassination. Ali’s partisans win.
657 Battle of Siffin between Ali and Muslim governor of Jerusalem, arbitration goes against Ali
661 Murder of Ali by an extremist; Ali’s supporters acclaim his son Hasan as next Caliph, but he comes to an agreement with Muawiyyah I and retires to Medina.
661—680 the Caliphate of Muawiyyah I. He founds Umayyid dynasty and moves capital from Medina to Damascus
673—678 Arabs besiege Constantinople, capital of Byzantine Empire
680 Massacre of Hussein (Muhammad’s grandson), his family, and his supporters in Karbala, Iraq.
691 Dome of the Rock is completed in Jerusalem, only six decades after Muhammad’s death.
Japetto Danatelli says
The story of islam is one of violence, brutality, and oppression, and your abbreviated timeline supports this. This is what they need to be teaching in school about muslims, the long bloody history of their “religion of peace,” the crushed freedoms and ravaged human rights and wars they have fought for their demon god. And let’s be frank about this, allah is a demon, only a demon would command murder for bigoted reasons as a sacred duty to be followed. But this is all common knowledge now, it’s not like it was before 9/11 when so many of us were naive about islamic jihad. Thank heavens for good people like Spencer and Wilders and Geller who helped educate us about the threat, or we’d really be up the creek. The fight is even harder because so many of our own politicians and media are bolstering their cause with lies and excuses, all in the name of multiculturalism and diversity, of course. Now that we’ve seen how it’s gone in Britain and Europe we know just how serious this threat is, we really could lose our most sacred held beliefs for islam, and our freedoms, our very lives. This war has been going on for 1400 years, our battles with islam are simply the latest listings on muslims timeline of murder and war for allah.
Richard says
Fascinating, Mohammed Jacob!
Kay says
Muhammed Jacob,
Everyone who reads here doesn’t have respect for the Pope, but I’m certain that you do not speak for him.
Red Bee says
Parents should not allow this.
For arguments see on my website (click my name): The Gruber/Sanders Triple Play & The Islamic machine (3 Islamic upbringing ).
somehistory says
Does anyone know what the “punishment” is/was?
Indiana Tom says
TAt an elementary school in Linz, Catholic children have to memorise and recite Islamic songs as part of the Islamic Ramadan festival. They were forced to take part and were punished if they refused.”
This is exactly the problem in Western Civilization.
IanB says
Religious proselytizing should have no place in schools or colleges.
Young minds should be encouraged to engage in critical thinking: the objective analysis and evaluation of an issue in order to form a judgement for themselves.
Freedom includes the right to question and reject imposed dogma.
IanB says
I shall go further and say religious or political indoctrination should be excluded from education.
Muhammed Jacob says
IN AMERICA QUEERS AND LESBIANS ARE TEACHING YOUNG CHILDREN ABOUT PERVERTED SEX!
IanB says
IN THE UK, MUSLIMS ARE GANG RAPING THOUSANDS OF OUR CHILDREN.
Muhammed Jacob says
IN THE UK, MUSLIMS ARE GANG RAPING THOUSANDS OF OUR CHILDREN.
That’s if there any virgins left after Jimmy Savile, Lord Janner, Ted Heath, the Royal Household, the Conservative Party., the Metropolitan Police etc
Use a bigger canvas!
We know what to expect from followers of the Pedophile prophet, but when so-called Roman Catholics and Protestants are doing it and protect by Royalty, Religions, Police and Politicians, then you are back in Sodom.
Kay says
Mohammed Jacob—
This is jihad watch. It seems you’re posting on the wrong site.
gravenimage says
+1
Robert Laity says
Islam is ANATHEMA. Avoid it like the plague.
FYI says
Then muslims should be forced to sing.They must accept our culture.Our cartoons.our satire.
Don’t worry:In the interests of multi-cultural enrichment I will erase my pencil cartoons of muhammed..the ones with the stink lines coming out an’ all.
perhaps muslims might like songs{although we know allah hates the “song of a songstress”):imagine the following song is sung by a man{Yusuf islam aka cat stevens:there you go.No need for a woman’s voice)
“She was afraid to come out of the water.
She was as nervous as she could have been,
For the muslims had ransacked the beachfront
and the cops were no where to be seen.
She was afraid to come out of the water,
The muslimas were screaming with glee..
She was afraid to come out of the water.
She was afraid that the muslims would see.
she…
wore….
an ..
itsy bitsy, teeny weeny yellow polka dot Burqini..
and still the muslims they chopped off her head
One two three four tell us what the Iman swore…
Proud Kaair says
I am astonished at these stories. Are the management of these schools Muslims? Aren’t there any christian managed schools in this country?
Kay says
I’m sure in many countries of the West it happens that Christian culture is not allowed to be transmitted (out of respect for “minority” cultures) but that Mohammedism is allowed to be taught as a celebration of diversity.
We see the same thing in other arenas. It’s just more dangerous in schools because the young are so easily indoctrinated. Teachers are powerless to stop it. Parents assume things are just like when they were in school. Because of PC expectations there isn’t nearly enough dialogue to bring things to light.
Hogdude says
The Pope needs to speak and take action against this. Now.
IanB says
The useless pope will do nothing except sit in his bath contemplating the unemployed.
Richard says
And condemning those who want to keep Muslims out of Christian countries. Today a bishop or cardinal in Texas told border control agents they could not receive Holy Communion. Almost every war that was ever fought was fought over controlling borders. This is insane. these guys are as Catholic as Ayatollah Khomeni
gravenimage says
I’m afraid Pope Francis would likely never say anything negative against this.
Richard says
Why not start on beheading themselves first?
Hari Singh says
Whats ironic is that if they were Turkish Muslim hymns more than likely they sound just like Greek Byzantine Orthodox hymns.
Byzantine hymns;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q8i0CYs-CM&t=38s
Turkish Sufis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn57D7UXIBg
See how nice they are they steal musical styles from the Christians and give it back albeit changed.
Islam is a concoction of things stolen and twisted from Jews, Christians and Arab pagans