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Jihad Watch

Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Keeping up with the Qarmatians

Jul 6, 2018 2:16 pm By Robert Spencer

There are some who think that if the Islamic world suffers a catastrophic loss — say, the destruction of Mecca — it would cause widespread disillusionment and even apostasy, and blunt the force of the advancing jihad. There have been incidents in Islamic history, however, that involved such catastrophes, and the jihad went on as always. In my new book The History of Jihad From Muhammad to ISIS, I recount how the Qarmatians, an apocalyptic Ismaili Shi’ite sect, stormed Mecca in the year 928 and stole the Black Stone from the Ka’aba.

Their theft of the Black Stone signified, the Qarmatians said, the end of Islam as such and the commencement of the age of the Mahdi, the savior figure of Islam. They were, however, willing to return it for a ransom back to Mecca, but no ransom was ever paid.

The Qarmatians kept the black stone for 22 years, finally returning it in the year 950, on the orders of the Fatimid Shi’ite caliph who had established himself in Cairo and whose authority they had accepted. They threw it into Great Mosque of Kufa in central Iraq, breaking it into seven pieces. And did they return the same black stone they had taken 22 years before? No one knows. But in any case, this curious episode shows that the jihad, unfortunately, can survive what appear to be appalling setbacks and affronts to core Islamic assumptions.

Keep up with the Qarmatians. Read The History of Jihad From Muhammad to ISIS, a book that challenges numerous cherished assumptions of today’s foreign policy “experts,” as well as of those who reject the competence of those “experts.” Click here to preorder.

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Comments

  1. Jerry Jones says

    Jul 6, 2018 at 2:34 pm

    Yes. However, an OCCUPATION of Mecca by non-Muslims, and the prevention of the hajj (pilgrimage) would likely be MUCH more demoralizing than the destruction of it.

    Not that I’m advocating such a thing!!!!!

    • abad says

      Jul 6, 2018 at 7:17 pm

      Nah, an occupation won’t do anything.

      But think about it for a moment.

      That black rock at the Ka’aba in Mecca is a meteorite.

      Moslems pray in the direction of the Ka’aba; indeed, many an Islamic prayer rug even has an image of the Ka’aba woven on it near the top.

      Sounds like a Lovecraft story. “The Colour Out of Space” comes to mind.

      Though I could not tell you if that meteorite is radioactive or not.

      It probably is.

      Thus every single Moslem who has made the hajj to Mecca, come in close contact with that meteorite, has been transformed into a sick-minded killer who humps goats and endlessly screams “Allahu Akhbar” and destroys everything in its path.

      See what I did there?

      • Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY) says

        Jul 6, 2018 at 11:27 pm

        Hi, Abad. You ask, “See what I did there?” No, I don’t see what you did there (other than getting me to read the synopsis at
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Colour_Out_of_Space ).
        What did you do there? Did you play some kind of rhetorical trick? Please do explain.

      • Amnon says

        Jul 7, 2018 at 9:39 am

        It appears that your days are numbered for idle rhetoric.

        • gravenimage says

          Jul 7, 2018 at 9:45 pm

          Is Amnon now threatening people here?

      • Jerry Jones says

        Jul 7, 2018 at 11:32 am

        Abad, that’s nonsense that an occupation of Mecca wouldn’t “do anything”. Keep in mind that the creation of the state of Israel is called the ‘Naqba’, ‘catastrophe’, which is the falling of a tiny percentage of fromerly Muslim lands in to non-Muslim hands.

        The occupation of Mecca would have a whole set of significant effects.

        • gravenimage says

          Jul 7, 2018 at 9:46 pm

          I don’t think the occupation or even destruction of Mecca would end Islam.

          Certainly, a free Israel hasn’t.

    • mortimer says

      Jul 6, 2018 at 7:54 pm

      ISLAMIC STAGES OF GRIEF & DENIAL OF PROBLEMS WITHIN ISLAM’S NARRATIVE

      Muslims get angry whenever they meet resistance to Islam’s narrative. Muslims present Islam’s narrative under a veil of misleading half-truths and semantic tricks. They are angry when those tricks are observed and exposed, and some become homicidal when convincing counterarguments are presented.

      When Muslims see the inherent problems and improbabilities within Islam’s narrative, they pass through the stages of grief. Some without ever accepting objective reality.

      The Stages of Islamic Grief are: 1)Denial 2)Anger 3)Bargaining 4)Depression 5)Acceptance.

      1. Denial – ‘No one but a few ‘loons’ reject Islam’s narrative.’

      2. Anger – ‘How dare they reject Islam’s narrative!’ Some Muslims curse and storm away without finishing the intellectual exam.

      3. Bargaining – Muslims start looking for Leftists who will accept some element of Islam’s narrative. They bargain with God to show them the counterarguments are false.

      4. Depression – Muslims glumly pontificate on racism and intolerance that are endemic in Western societies or they curse at us and suddenly break off the dialogue. They may even recognize something is wrong in the violence caused by Muslims, but go no further.

      But the fifth stage…

      5. Acceptance that Islam is an intellectual house of cards, never kicks in for most Muslims. The process just repeats itself from 1 to 4, over and over.

      Muslims are generally in denial about Islam…Islam is impossible to defend ethically, logically or historically, but it’s easier to just maintain the house of cards then thoughtfully challenge it.

    • J D S says

      Jul 7, 2018 at 8:54 am

      These Rock worshipers need to worship “The Solid Rock” Jesus the Christ and all their murdering,raping, enslaving, and all the other atrocious acts would disappear into forgiveness and love…Going to ever happen? Doubtful.

  2. Kay says

    Jul 6, 2018 at 3:12 pm

    What is the photograph of?
    What broke into 7 pieces?

    • gravenimage says

      Jul 6, 2018 at 5:08 pm

      Kay, the black stone in Mecca is what Muslims pray in the direction of. It is a meteorite, and was broken into seven pieces (or perhaps more) after being stolen in the raid above. It is now encased in a silver casing–see above–to hold the pieces together.

      Here’s some general background information:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone

      • Alarmed Pig Farmer says

        Jul 6, 2018 at 5:30 pm

        C’mon, the Saudis are rich. The can afford some glue to solidify things…engineered by some Infidel chemical engineers.

        • revereridesagain says

          Jul 6, 2018 at 6:09 pm

          But then people wouldn’t giggle everytime they see the thing in it’s, um, “casing”. Can’t convince me there isn’t some strange subconscious symbolism going on there…

        • abad says

          Jul 6, 2018 at 7:20 pm

          Instead of sending them glue made from fish bones, send them glue made from pig bones.

        • gravenimage says

          Jul 6, 2018 at 8:23 pm

          Hilarious, APF and revereridesagain.

        • Richard says

          Jul 7, 2018 at 2:33 am

          Mortimer: Thank God you are able to look at it as an outsider with a clear and perceptive mind. The vast majority of Muslims are born into it and everyone they know are Muslims. If any doubt it’s abhorrent teachings, they will not dare say so, knowing they could be instantly killed, so they understandably get the idea that because everyone believes in it, it must be right. Islam is Jonestown with a billion people.
          Similarly, the vast majority of Americans and Europeans are kept away from the truth about Islam and in some countries those who tell the truth are imprisoned. In England, the President of the United States is barred from speaking to one of Islam’s detractors. If it were not for this web site, I would have absolutely no idea of so many things that you take for granted, of which I still know so little and am appalled more and more every day.

      • Ibrahim itace muhammed says

        Jul 6, 2018 at 7:13 pm

        Ignorant liar Gravenimage, black stone is not an object of worship, it is a miraculous stone which came down from heaven showing Adam where to build kaaba and when the flood washed the kaaba away it came down from heaven again showing father Abraham and his son Ishmael the exact site of the kaaba and they rebuilt it and it was placed at its sides for pilgrims to witness the living miracle. Touching it or kissing it is not even required, just seeing it is ok

        • abad says

          Jul 6, 2018 at 7:23 pm

          That black stone happens to be an idol.

          You were sadly misinformed, Ibrahim.

          Exodus 20:1-2

        • Mo says

          Jul 6, 2018 at 7:37 pm

          @ Ibrahim itace muhammed

          “Ignorant liar Gravenimage, black stone is not an object of worship, ”

          There’s zero evidence for all these accounts. Zero. None. Nothing.

          You must be ignorant of your own ideology. Your coreligionists sometimes spend their life savings to go on this trip to see a ROCK! And most of the poor souls don’t get close enough to see anything. The march around a BOX with a ROCK inside it.

          When I first learned this and watched some videos, I was horrified. So many lost souls looking to a box and a rock, to give what only Jesus Christ can give.

          I urge you to turn to Christ before it’s too late. Mohammad is dead. He can do nothing for you. Only Christ can save.

        • gravenimage says

          Jul 6, 2018 at 8:31 pm

          Ibrahim itace muhammed wrote:

          Ignorant liar Gravenimage, black stone is not an object of worship,
          ………………………..

          I never said that Muslims worship the black rock–I said they pray in that direction. How can Ibrahim itace muhammed deny this? Doesn’t he know what the Qibla is?

          But Muslims certainly act as though they are worshiping it–slavering over it and kissing it.

          More:

          it is a miraculous stone which came down from heaven showing Adam where to build kaaba and when the flood washed the kaaba away it came down from heaven again showing father Abraham and his son Ishmael the exact site of the kaaba and they rebuilt it and it was placed at its sides for pilgrims to witness the living miracle. Touching it or kissing it is not even required, just seeing it is ok
          ………………………..

          This is a lot of Muslim hooey, cobbled together from the a vague familiarity with the Bible and intended to entice Jews and Christians to follow Muhammed. Of course, few did, so he turned to war and murder instead. *Ugh*.

        • mortimer says

          Jul 6, 2018 at 10:53 pm

          ISLAM is Triple Goddess Worship at the Ka’ba (cube, stone box, cave or womb, a female symbol… the KORA-ysh tribe was the tribe of the KORA … the ‘Maiden’ of Venus):

          Islam’s central rite of kissing the Black Stone contained in the Ka’ba reveals itself to be pagan moon- and meteorite-idol worship. The crescent moon of the early Arabian moon worship was adopted as the symbol Islam in order to facilitate the integration of the pagan Arabian moon cultists and QOS-ALLAH worshippers into Islam. According to Mohammed, the reddish-black meteorite stone turned black after it was handled by menstruating women! The legend thus associates the 28-day cycle of the moon with menstruation*, showing that the stone was used in the purification ritual of a pagan moon-cult! Mohammed wanted his tribe to worship QOS-THE ARABIAN GOD OF WAR (Mars in Latin), but the Quraysh worshipped VENUS (Kora) instead. The symbol of QOS-Allah was the bow (similar in shape to the crescent). That is why the BOW OF QOS – the Arabian GOD OF WAR is on every mosque! Islam is the Cult of War, Fighting and Death. Mohammed hesitated about insisting on his new all-male religion. He therefore retreated, introduced, and then denounced, the “satanic verses” in which he approved the worship of the triple goddess to gain the support of the Meccans. This did not help him as much as he had hoped, so he continued to receive revelations that emphasized his own centrality as Allah’s only mouthpiece. His revelations became more and more cultish as time went by, emphasizing his personal importance. Due to his megalomania, the Meccans thought Mohammed had a screw loose. They mocked Mohammed so much that he left their town. References: * Mohammed said, “The stone turned black because it was fingered by menstruating women.” –ibn al Arabi ** – “Verily those who swear allegiance to you (Muhammad), indeed swear their allegiance to Allah.” Qur’an 48:10 (i.e. allegiance to jihad and Mohammed is allegiance to QOS-ALLAH the Arabian version of Mars.)

        • GP says

          Jul 7, 2018 at 3:57 am

          LOL……you can’t make this stuff up!
          (*oh wait….actually a violent, paedophile did make this up…..sigh*)

        • Buraq says

          Jul 7, 2018 at 4:47 am

          @ Ibe itace Mohamed

          Your post doesn’t make sense, Habibi. You write: … it is a miraculous stone which came down from heaven showing Adam where to build kaaba and when the flood washed the kaaba away it came down from heaven again ……

          Did the flood wash it up to heaven? How did it get to heaven? Do very heavy, massive stones just float up to heaven?

          You’re a clown, Ibe, if you believe all that hogwash!

        • Joe says

          Jul 7, 2018 at 5:04 am

          Muslims bow down and worship the black rock 5 times a day. The proof is on their forehead. When the black rock was in Petra they bowed down to Petra. The qiblahs of the old mosques still point to Petra. When Mohammed was driven out of Petra the rock was moved to Medina. Then Mecca was built and the rock was moved there. The qiblahs now point to Mecca. The Muslims bow down to the rock in Mecca. If the black rock was moved to another city, the Muslims would bow to that city.

          If Muslims did not worship the black rock, then they would not have those sores on their heads.

          If they worship God, why do they always bow in the direction of the rock?

          The case is closed; Muslims worship the black rock. No one believes in that rock. Islam is held together through fear and violence.

        • mortimer says

          Jul 7, 2018 at 8:36 am

          Ibrahim, where are your FACTS, REFERENCES and COGENT ARGUMENTS?

          Clearly, all you have is YOUR UNINFORMED OPINION stated as cocksure fact.

          NOW HEAR THIS, Ibrahim: YOUR OPINIONS and CLAIMS are NOT facts, but merely CONJECTURES.

          That is why you lose… you have NO argument … only opinions stated vehemently with slander and put-downs.

          That’s sophomoric, Ibrahim. NOT SCHOLARLY.

      • Kay says

        Jul 6, 2018 at 9:35 pm

        Wow.
        thanks

        • Richard says

          Jul 7, 2018 at 2:58 am

          Mortmer: Your article is fascinating!!! A Persian friend told me years ago that cus/kos is Persian for a woman’s private parts. Could this possibly have any relation to Qos, the male Arabian god of war? It would fit in a fertility rite. I know sometimes the heathen religions tie the male and female names together – as in the Scandinavian Freyr/Freyja or Israel’s Herod and Herodius – royalty originating as the king being the earthly representative of the fertility god who would then be sacrificed after a certain period of time. Originally, one year. Then the Persians originated the idea of a king for a day, who would then be sacrificed as a stand-in for the real king. There is a great deal of evidence that was why John the Baptist was killed/sacrificed. There is no mention of the Dance of the Seven Veils in the Bible, but Herodius came from a place where Baal died and descended to the underworld, whereupon his wife, Anat, followed him to bring him back. At each of the seven doors to the netherworld, she had to remove a layer of her clothing. At the seventh door, she remove he final garment and, completely nude, she beheaded the god of sterility, whereupon she returned with her husband, Baal, to the surface of the earth. Your Qos might fit in with this, somehow.

        • Ibrahim itace muhammed says

          Jul 7, 2018 at 4:33 am

          Mortimer, you are just an ignorant liar. Muslims do not worship miraclous signs, they are mere proofs of divine revelations unlike you pagan mithraist christians who worship any thing miraculous like worshipping Jesus simply because he was born miraclously without Union between man and woman and that he performed miracles. mithraist christians could worship woman’s vagina like Hindu barbarians believing that the pleasure there is god. Fools!!

        • Ibrahim itace muhammed says

          Jul 7, 2018 at 7:05 am

          Ignorant fool Joe, you are just saying it because it is contrary to what muslims believe. But you cannot deny the fact that mithraist christians worship Jesus as Godman and you are satisfied with the belief, which is a pagan idea imported from Roman paganism of mithraism of old inspired by the Satan Christians Call Holy Spirit.

        • gravenimage says

          Jul 7, 2018 at 10:00 pm

          Why is Ibrahim itace muhammed so ignorant? The Savior is not a “mithraist” concept.

        • Sharyati says

          Jul 9, 2018 at 5:41 am

          Dirty stinking shitty Islamic castrated dog, Ibby . Just shut up your effing mouth. What do you know about Hinduism. You are a person following the religion of a highway robber/bandit and slave trader from the primitive deserts of Arabia that had nothing. We on the other hand in the 7th century had world famous universities(Nalanda) and libraries and temples and buildings that reflected a superior architecture and civilization. If you have a brain and eyes see the below link of the monuments we had in the 7th century
          https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+of+indian+temples+and+libraries+in+the+7th+century&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjlsomU3JHcAhULLo8KHeARDrkQ7AkIWA&biw=1229&bih=595

          Do you find one goddamned monument in Arabia from that period except for clay huts and lizard skins. You and your religion are curse to humanity at large

  3. Benedict says

    Jul 6, 2018 at 3:25 pm

    I suppose that Islam is a potential that is realized differently under different historic conditions. In our time Muslim rage and anti-Semitism will reach its maximum in relation to the land of Israel. The Jewish state in the midst of the Muslim world is an intolerable humiliation for Muslims and a mockery of Islam and its puffed up prophet. Ultimately Israel is the demise of Islam. What the theft of the Black Stone from the Ka’aba could not achieve the removal of the two mosques from the Temple Mount will accomplish.

    • gravenimage says

      Jul 6, 2018 at 5:19 pm

      Benedict–with all respect–I don’t see the survival of Israel, important as it is, leading to the destruction of Islam.

      I think our best chance is re-isolating Islam as much as possible–this kept us mostly safe for centuries.

      • abad says

        Jul 6, 2018 at 7:25 pm

        I agree 100%, containing Islam and its followers within its native lands is the best solution to the problem.

        • Raja says

          Jul 6, 2018 at 8:35 pm

          Graven and Abad,

          Though I can barely disagree with your views, I think the “world leaders” made a monumental mistake in NOT understanding Islam. Islam, a war machine was managed well by all dictators. like, Gadaffi, Saddam, Assad and a host of despot kings etc. There was this natural balancing of the horrors of Islam and its zealots.

          if 13 % of Muslims voted for Trump, about 87% Muslims would not even have a cursory look at democracy.

          There must be a “re-think” of how political Islam is being viewed by the world leaders so that tentacles of Islam are dismantled. It might well be that Christ will return when the gospel is allowed to be preached in these satanic states. Huge task in hand.

          Wish We had Trump across the globe!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • gravenimage says

          Jul 6, 2018 at 8:45 pm

          Agreed., abad and Raja.

          I wish all our leaders understood Islam better.

      • Benedict says

        Jul 6, 2018 at 8:06 pm

        I see the survival of Islam leading to the destruction of Israel and the destruction of Israel, as the land of our fathers, leading to the destruction of Christianity. And as Christianity goes so goes the West and the rest.

        • gravenimage says

          Jul 6, 2018 at 8:34 pm

          I think Israel is in a good position to survive, due to the intelligence and bravery of her people. I don’t believe that little Israel is in a position to destroy Islam, though–nor is that her aim. She just wants to be left alone.

  4. Susan B is getting really mad@# says

    Jul 6, 2018 at 3:33 pm

    As they say in children’s stories, if you don’t succeed at first, try try again.

  5. gravenimage says

    Jul 6, 2018 at 5:02 pm

    There are some who think that if the Islamic world suffers a catastrophic loss — say, the destruction of Mecca — it would cause widespread disillusionment and even apostasy, and blunt the force of the advancing jihad. There have been incidents in Islamic history, however, that involved such catastrophes, and the jihad went on as always.
    ………………………….

    Yes–this is what I have always said. Every so often, someone will opine that dropping a nuke on Mecca would end Islam and its Jihad once and for all.

    I have always known that it would make little difference. The psychosis of Islam goes way beyond the black rock in Mecca.

    • Richard says

      Jul 7, 2018 at 3:24 am

      Gravenimage: There is absolutely no doubt that you are right. As a pun on Madonna: “I have thought very much about blowing up the Kaaba.” I do not know why the Kaaba and Mecca are so important to Muslims because their religion is based on no tangible thing. If something is holy to them, like the tomb of a great religious figure, they destroy it as an object of worship/idolatry. This is why they will not allow Mohammed to be portrayed in any picture – and in fact, many Muslims won’t allow pictures of any living creature. When Mohammed died, his death was announced as “For those of you who worshipped Mohammed, Mohamed is dead. For those of you who worship God, God lives and will never die.” So I think blowing up the Kaaba will only inspire them with rage to kill unbelievers. They manufacture those rages at almost everything as it is. I hate to say it, but I think the only way the Muslims can be stopped is for them to be killed, but the will to fight seems to have gone out of the West. Muslims are longing to die for God while Some “Christian” religions are talking about making God a transsexual to bring in more money. My Aunt Betty June said we should all become Muslim so we can get cheap oil. If you have nothing to fight for, you will lose the fight.

  6. gravenimage says

    Jul 6, 2018 at 5:20 pm

    +1

  7. Indiana Tom says

    Jul 6, 2018 at 5:26 pm

    I thought it was a space alien.

  8. eduardo odraude says

    Jul 6, 2018 at 6:09 pm

    What Robert Spencer says here comports with what I’ve read about cults in general. What an outsider might see as discomfirming a cult’s beliefs (for example, the failure of a specific prophecy predicting something to happen at a specific time), is often just reinterpreted in one way or another as a confirmation that can even end up strengthening cult members’ adherence to the belief system.

    On the other hand, numerous Muslims have been led to apostasy by rational arguments showing, from the core Islamic sources themselves, the evil, totalitarian, and non-sensical character of Islam.

    • eduardo odraude says

      Jul 6, 2018 at 6:20 pm

      I’ll add that often, apostasy must be incubated over months. The person takes time to absorb the evidence and adjust to and accept new possibilities. Logical and factual arguments against Islam are like seeds — they may take months to sprout, they may require nurturing and watering and so on, but they do tend to sprout and destroy Islam.

      The same is relevant not just for Muslims but also for many of the leftist appeasers of Islam who insist that Islam is a religion of peace. They may reject the Islam-critical arguments loudly and vociferously, and yet those who point out how and why Islam is and always has been totalitarian plant a seed that can grow quietly underground over time so that, surprise surprise, when push comes to shove, a lot of the Islamophiles quickly abandon their excessive tolerance and we learn that, in subterranean regions of their minds, they themselves had been half-consciously or consciously digesting and adopting criticisms of Islam as uniquely totalitarian, as a sacralized machine for subjugating non-Muslims to a debased social status and ever diminishing numbers.

      • mortimer says

        Jul 6, 2018 at 7:31 pm

        Eduardo is correct.

        Here are the stages of grief that Muslims go through when they see intellectual obstacles blocking Islamic belief: 1)Denial 2)Anger 3)Bargaining 4)Depression 5)Acceptance.

        When believing Muslims actually examine well-reasoned counterarguments to Islam … in an attempt to refute them, they often see the counterarguments are correct. Recently, a number of apologists of Islam have debated against knowledgeable Christian debaters and after they analyzed the Islamic scriptures, they have been convinced that Islam is false. The logical and factual counterarguments were effective at deprogramming them.

        • mortimer says

          Jul 6, 2018 at 7:33 pm

          Eduardo, not months … but years to incubate. Some have claimed their apostasy took 19 years from the initial doubts.

          Islam blocks doubting very efficiently and that is why so few openly leave it.

        • eduardo odraude says

          Jul 7, 2018 at 2:33 pm

          mortimer,

          I said “months” because sometimes that is all it takes, and I like to try to raise morale. But of course you are right that in many cases it takes years.

  9. mortimer says

    Jul 6, 2018 at 7:54 pm

    ISLAMIC STAGES OF GRIEF & DENIAL OF PROBLEMS WITHIN ISLAM’S NARRATIVE

    Muslims get angry whenever they meet resistance to Islam’s narrative. Muslims present Islam’s narrative under a veil of misleading half-truths and semantic tricks. They are angry when those tricks are observed and exposed, and some become homicidal when convincing counterarguments are presented.

    When Muslims see the inherent problems and improbabilities within Islam’s narrative, they pass through the stages of grief. Some without ever accepting objective reality.

    The Stages of Islamic Grief are: 1)Denial 2)Anger 3)Bargaining 4)Depression 5)Acceptance.

    1. Denial – ‘No one but a few ‘loons’ reject Islam’s narrative.’

    2. Anger – ‘How dare they reject Islam’s narrative!’ Some Muslims curse and storm away without finishing the intellectual exam.

    3. Bargaining – Muslims start looking for Leftists who will accept some element of Islam’s narrative. They bargain with God to show them the counterarguments are false.

    4. Depression – Muslims glumly pontificate on racism and intolerance that are endemic in Western societies or they curse at us and suddenly break off the dialogue. They may even recognize something is wrong in the violence caused by Muslims, but go no further.

    But the fifth stage…

    5. Acceptance that Islam is an intellectual house of cards, never kicks in for most Muslims. The process just repeats itself from 1 to 4, over and over.

    Muslims are generally in denial about Islam…Islam is impossible to defend ethically, logically or historically, but it’s easier to just maintain the house of cards then thoughtfully challenge it.

  10. Chatillon says

    Jul 6, 2018 at 9:49 pm

    Nuking Mecca, occupying Mecca, stealing the black stone, putting Mohammedans on reservations…these are all tactics, none of which appear especially effective to me.

    Before effective tactics can be implemented, however, a clear, over-arching strategy should be worked out. First item of business: Define the enemy. How close is society to this point? Real close? Getting there? Possibly waking up?

    There are lots of tactics that could be implemented.I favor the freezing of Saudi assets, declaring the members of the OIC to be the caliphate and thereby reducing their influence in the UN as the largest voting bloc (57) to the smallest (1). How about demanding reparations for Mohammedan raids/invasions in North Africa, Europe, India, sub-Saharan Africa, etc. etc?

    That to me makes as much sense as anything, but it’s all simply venting of the spleen. It’ll NEVER happen because there is NO understanding withing our own society of the evil that Islam represents. Mention the epithet “Nazi” and everyone gets nuts. But “Islam?” Meh. Yet Islam was far crueler for far longer with a far graver impact on the human soul than Nazism ever hoped for.

    Step one: Define the strategy. Step one of step one: Define the enemy. That means being forthright in venues beyond websites such as these concerning the dangers posed by Islam. There will be pain. Even now the legal systems are being weaponized against free pronouncement of the truth. The flip side of that, however, is that it will be ever more clear who and what one can’t criticize and thereby who or what seeks to lord it over all.

    • mortimer says

      Jul 7, 2018 at 8:31 am

      Chatillon:

      Definition: “It’s the ideology, stupid.”

      Solution: Absolute deprogramming of Muslims. (ex. ‘The History of Jihad’ by Robert Spencer)

      Muslims who leave Islam will be trained to help others to leave. The process will become self-perpetuating.

      • Chatillon says

        Jul 7, 2018 at 6:14 pm

        I agree that it’s the ideology. Absolutely. But the solution does not start with the deprogramming of Mohammedans. It begins with the deprogramming of what’s left of Western society.

      • gravenimage says

        Jul 7, 2018 at 10:09 pm

        Mortimer, your claim that Robert Spencer wrote ‘The History of Jihad’ in order to “deprogram” Muslims is mistaken.

        He wrote it to educate Infidels.

        Besides, pious Muslims *love* Jihad. The idea that Muslims would leave Islam en masse if they learned that Muslims had waged Jihad simply makes no sense.

  11. gravenimage says

    Jul 6, 2018 at 10:00 pm

    By the way, the title of this article–“Keeping up with the Qarmatians”–is hilarious!

  12. Lydia Church says

    Jul 6, 2018 at 10:02 pm

    This is off, and somehow on… topic, but there is at least one event in which the pope is bemoaning the ‘lack of mercy’ for the migrants, holding a mass for them, yet no word of mercy for the victims of the migrants! I know there was a post on here some time ago but there may be new events in that direction, I just caught a glance in passing on internet news.

    Speaking of border rending agendas, after all the hoopla about the US-Mexico border and all the endless ‘victims,’ Trump held an honorary meal for all the victims of those who crossed our border illegally.

    Yes, there are legitimate asylum seekers, like the Christians fleeing persecution by the muslims and coming to Sweden and the US, just to be sent back (at Chula Vista, from Iraq, by Obama some time ago) and by the Swedish gov. to that lady from Iran. Why is it that the true refugees are sent back, but the violent ones are courted for reentry? Those who warn about the dangers are banned from entering certain countries? The migrants sow violence and terror, but are called the victims? The true victims are swept under the rug in silence? All while the pope decries the ‘migrant victims,’ and the ‘silence’ about their ‘victimhood,’ and calling THAT hypocrisy? When he is hypocrisy incarnate?
    No tears for the real victims, only those falsely labeled as such by him!

    And I get soooo tired of all the endless sense of entitlement by everyone… who is not… entitled!

    • Richard says

      Jul 7, 2018 at 3:53 am

      The Pope is doing everything he can to destroy the Catholic faith. As for which immigrants the government will and will not accept, it does not seem so much a matter of saving their lives as that magic word, “diversity”. Why allow Christian immigrants fleeing for their lives into a nation which (nominally, at least) has so many Christians? Let’s bring in Muslims instead! And once they are here, we must help their minority religion by helping them build mosques and not investigate whether or no those mosques are fostering terrorism. That might be insulting to them.Multiculturalism is well worth a few thousand American lives a year, don’t you think?” “A house divided cannot stand”, said Abraham Lincoln. It is great to say “I’ll be me and you be you.” But what if “You” don’t want me to be me? What if you find my existence an insult to God and the very sight of me practicing my religion a sty in God’s eye? Do Christian’s fight back? Quite literally, Hell no! Defending our religion might offend someone. ‘God made man in His image. Let’s return the favor and remake God in our image!’ ‘Whatever you do, don’t say anything nice about God’s mother, but don’t forget to add breasts to Jesus on our crucifixes.’ How long can a religion like that stand? ‘Whatever you do, don’t let the Middle Eastern Christians into America. They are dying by the thousands for Christ every day and, horror of horrors, they really believe in Him!’

      • imwithstoopid says

        Jul 7, 2018 at 1:37 pm

        The destruction of the Catholic faith was totally done at and by the Second Ecumenical Council.
        Since then the true faith has been represented in what few small congregations were left.
        Pope, a Jesuit, has always been a Marxist Communist and has had little to do with the faith along with his staff of Bishops and Priests.

  13. mortimer says

    Jul 6, 2018 at 11:26 pm

    FOR IBRAHIM:

    CALIPH ZUBAYR destroyed the Kaba and put the black stone in an ARK wrapped in SILK — only women wear silk — the Black Stone was a goddess symbol)!

    Al Ṭabarī tells us: According to Muḥammad ibn ’Umar al-Wāqidī – Ibrāhīm ibn Mūsā Ikrimah ibn Khālid: Ibn al-Zubayr demolished the sanctuary (Ka’ba) until he had leveled it to the ground, and he dug out its foundation …. He placed the Black Cornerstone by it in an ark [tabut] in a strip of silk.( Ṭabarī XX, page 123, 64 AH) With the Ka’ba destroyed, Ibn Al Zubayr himself led the pilgrimage that year, and then for the next three years there was no pilgrimage, as no one came to the Holy City of Petra (Mecca).

    The Ka’ba was so damaged by Al Hajjaj that it looked “like the torn bosoms of mourning women.” The siege lasted for seven months and in the end 10,000 men, among them two of Ibn al-Zubayr’s sons, had gone over to al-Ḥajjāj. In the end Ibn al-Zubayr and his youngest son were killed in the fighting in a ruined building near the Ka’ba.
    As a reward al- Ḥajjāj was given the governorship of the Hijaz, Yemen, and al-Yamama. It was here that he began to persecute the Companions of Muḥammad by making them wear a lead seal around their necks.18 During his lifetime Al-Ḥajjāj killed four companions (ṣaḥaba) of Muḥammad: Abd Allah ibn al-Zubayr, Jabir ibn Abd-Allah, Sa’id ibn Jubayr and Kumayl ibn Ziyad. Despite these actions, in 75 AH Caliph Abd al-Malik appointed al-Ḥajjāj as govern of Iraq. This placed Ḥajjāj in a very powerful position, governing the entire eastern half of the caliphate. The following years were filled with bloody wars, putting down rebellions and ruling with an iron fist.
    What interests us the most is the construction of the city of Wāsiṭ in the year 83 AH and Wāsiṭ al-Qaṣab in 95 AH. A number of interesting mosque constructions or renovations took place during this time. As archeological evidence now shows us, the Qiblas of these mosques did not all agree.

    Islam was obviously created by the caliphs out of Arab pagans generations after Mohammed.

  14. Bezelel says

    Jul 6, 2018 at 11:27 pm

    Proof that muslims are Idol worshiping heathens. Make gravel out of it.

  15. mortimer says

    Jul 6, 2018 at 11:35 pm

    For Ibrahim: KORAN WAS WRITTEN BY Abd al Malik, Hajjaj, Abu Turab and Salman the Persian.

    In the year 98 AH (717 CE): It is during these years that the Christian Roman powers in Byzantium were accusing the Muslims of many things. Leo also tells us that Abū Turāb and Salmān the Persian composed the Qur’ān even though the rumor has got around among you that God sent it down from the heavens…. As for your book, you have already given us examples of such falsifications and one knows among others of a certain Ḥajjāj named by you as governor of Persia, who had men gather your ancient books, which he replaced by others composed by himself according to his taste and which he disseminated everywhere in your nation, because it was easier by far to undertake such a task among a people speaking a single language. From this destruction, nevertheless, there escaped a few of the works of Abū Turāb, for Hajjaj could not make them disappear completely. -Leo-’Umar, Letter, in Armenian, 292, 297-98, Hoyland, 1997, page 501

    • Richard says

      Jul 7, 2018 at 4:43 am

      Mortimer:
      Your story that a Persian had part in writing the Qu’ran is very important.. I had a Persian Jewish friend who told me years ago that the Qu’ran was actually written by a Persian: “Everybody in Iran knows it!”. I thought he was making it up, but what you wrote give it credence.. Thank you!

      • mortimer says

        Jul 7, 2018 at 9:24 am

        Richard, the greatest question mark in the minds of Muslims is the AUTHENTICITY of the Koran. Destroy the credence in the Koran and Muslims leave Islam IMMEDIATELY. You are a wise man to see the importance of these references. If the Koran is shown to be of human origin, Islam falls and Muslims abandon it on the spot, but not without great emotion. Leaving Islam is very traumatic for sociological reasons.

  16. Proud Kaafir says

    Jul 7, 2018 at 3:22 am

    Some hindus believe that the black stone of Kaaba is their Shiv ling. Shiv ling is a symbol of copulating phallic. There is a female sex organ at the bottom and a male organ standing straight in it. The above picture is a graphic description of a female organ. To make it more perfect the curtain plays the role of labia around it. The stone is inside it. The only difference is that it is not protruding.

  17. Johm says

    Jul 7, 2018 at 3:46 am

    They worship this stupid rock ! That is called idolatry ! There once were 360 idols around the Kabba . Islam has its roots in a pagan relidgion . They do not worship the true God Yahweh not Allah who is Satan . This stone used to be white but from humans rubbing it , The stone turned black. It is just a meteorite that’s all it is and it does not bring good lunck . Its it just like all the other fairy tales they have in this geopolitical system . It’s not a relidgion at all .

    • Johm says

      Jul 7, 2018 at 3:48 am

      They worship Allah who is Satan. Simple as that.

      • FYI says

        Jul 7, 2018 at 7:45 am

        “The forfeit to be brought as an offering TO the ka’bah”
        surah 5 v 95

        An offering TO the kabah…of course the islamic apologists will try to deny this but it quite is clear from the context that it is an offering TO islam'”holy” stone.

        allah is the “best of deceivers” k3:54 which means allah is the master of bearing False Witness:his prophet muhammed even ADMITTED in al tabari 6:111 to having fabricated things “AGAINST GOD”.

        A self-confessed fake god and a self-confessed false prophet!

        An interesting fact about allah is his theological errors:In Christianity,after the Coming of Christ, God’s Holy Spirit..the Helper..His shared wisdom ..was poured out over mankind.

        allah apparently completely missed that{just as he missed the 2 chief commandments “The whole of the Law”..}
        Now since allah rejects the Theology behind it koran 4:171{“cease! it is better for you”says mighty allah the theologically-challenged god of islam}then he neither knows nor believes in God’s wisdom;allah has no idea what God’s Holy Spirit is and he certainly doesn’t know what it is.

        Just think about that!What an enormous.. and epic theology fail on the part of allah!

        allah’s theological failure to understand Theology.. resulting in his failure to know what God’s Holy Spirt is about…is like someone claiming to be a Professor of Computer science,who has absolutely no idea(and never heard of) an operating system.

        That’s not a “professor” is it?Imagine that: allah does not know nor believe in God’s Wisdom.
        That explains why the koran is full of errors.

  18. FYI says

    Jul 7, 2018 at 7:23 am

    “The forfeit is to be brought as an offering TO the ka’bah”

    Koran 5 v 95

    An offering TO the kabah?Now isn’t that contrary to God’s 2nd and 3rd commandments?Yet ANOTHER Law of God that allah doesn’t obey.
    {Along with all those other commandment-of-God violating islamic koranic laws

    muslims are allowed to murder infidels k2:191
    muslims are allowed to commit adultery{“what the right hand possesses”}k33:50
    muslims are allowed to steal {koran 48:20}and tax infidels{=theft!}k9:29
    muslims are allowed to bear false witness to promote islam{taqqiya,tawriya,muruna,kitman}

    As long as the victims are infidels..why bother with those pesky commandments of God that actually prohibit such warped islamic teachings ….?}

    An offering TO the ka’bah?Unless of course “TO” means something else in islam like the word “perfect”{the perfect koran,mo the perfect man}in islam actually seems to mean “imperfect”.

    And the term religion of “peace” really means cult of “violence”

    The Words..

    perfect in English=imperfect in islam
    peace in English=violence in islam
    prophet in English=psycopathic,polygamous,mass-murdering,slave trader in islam

    “An offering to the kabah”=payment for a kebab?

  19. mortimer says

    Jul 7, 2018 at 8:47 am

    Ibrahim, in spite of your vehement denials, unsupported claims and utter lies, Muslims worship the BLACK STONE and bow only to the Black Stone and to nothing else.

    The WORSHIP given to the Black Stone makes it the GREATEST IDOL WORSHIP IN ALL HISTORY.

    The Black Stone is wrapped in a VEIL as is a GODDESS. Muslims unknowingly are worshipping ALLAT, the fertility goddess of Arabia, the equivalent of Venus.

    Pre-Islamic women ‘fingered’ the Black Stone in a PURIFICATION RITUAL, according to an hadith, thus turning the Stone from white to black with their menstrual blood and their sins.

    You worship a FEMALE SYMBOL.

  20. mortimer says

    Jul 7, 2018 at 9:25 am

    For Ibrahim … read and weep:

    in Sahih Bukhari Muhammed is recorded as saying the Kaaba was built 40 years prior to the Temple at Jerusalem:

    SB 4:55:636 Narrated Abu Dhaar: I said, “O Allah’s Apostle! Which mosque was built first?” He replied, “Al-Masjid-ul-Haram.” {Kaaba} I asked, “Which was built next?” He replied, “Al-Masjid-ul-Aqs-a {Temple at Jerusalem}.” I asked, “What was the period in between them?” He replied, “Forty years.”

    Solomon is recorded to have built the Temple of Jerusalem around 955 BCE. However, Abraham according to biblical study lived approximately 2000 BCE. Hence, if Muhammad is correct that the Kaaba was built forty years prior to the temple of Jerusalem, Abraham could not possibly have built it.

  21. Edward Cline says

    Jul 7, 2018 at 10:45 am

    My novel, “The Black Stone,” set in San Francisco in 1930, is up on Amazon and sells well. In it the detective hero, Cyrus Skeen, combats early agents of the MB,, who have murdered a NY reporter tho stole the Bblack Stone from the Kabbah.The hero finds the missing stone and its wash basin (all silver) and gives it to a down and out businessman bankrupted by government policies. The Muzzies just replaced the “sacred” relic with a new one and no one knew the difference. From a height, the black stone resembles a cllogged toilet.

    • gravenimage says

      Jul 7, 2018 at 10:14 pm

      Interesting, Edward. I’ll look up your book.

  22. Brian hoff says

    Jul 7, 2018 at 2:24 pm

    It willnot work as most muslim nation are very advanced in technology compare to the west.. Than not very muslim is than terrorist only 1% of 1% of the worldwide muslim population are terrorist you also are than hater of america indian.

    • gravenimage says

      Jul 7, 2018 at 10:18 pm

      “Brian hoff” has made the ludicrous claim before that the stagnant Muslim world is more technologically advanced than the free West.

      And how does opposing violent Jihad make one “than hater of america indian”? This makes no sense.

  23. Jameson says

    Jul 7, 2018 at 5:53 pm

    Nuking Mecca, literally obliterating the so-called grand mosque from the face of the earth, and then following that up with some sort of Chernobyl-like radiation contamination that would last a few thousand years, would surely have a greater impact than some other Muslims merely running off with the black stone for a while. The so-called pilgrimage would be off for good and five times a day they would face a radioactive hole in the ground. That Islam is tied to a physical place on earth is in an of itself indicative of the false nature of the so-called religion. And breaking that tie would surely have a great impact.

    • gravenimage says

      Jul 7, 2018 at 10:21 pm

      I still don’t think it would make much difference to how Muslims act.

      • Steve says

        Jul 8, 2018 at 2:24 am

        How many Muslims could still believe in Islam after something like that? Allah would have failed to protect his most holy site from destruction by infidels.

    • Steve says

      Jul 8, 2018 at 2:26 am

      Yes, how many Muslims could still believe in Allah’s omnipotence after something like that?

  24. Hogdude says

    Jul 7, 2018 at 6:14 pm

    The political/religious movement called Islam will never be completely forgotten or erased from this old Earth. Once thoughts such as those are imprinted in the minds of a few who are susceptible to such drivel, it’s impossible to totally erase them. Thus, we have to defend ourselves over the ages from people who believe as they do. Better to erase as many as possible to “keep the lid on” rather than to try to eradicate all in one colossal effort: war. So keep the faith, educate, watch your back and do what you have to do. The day of reckoning is coming for all.

    • Jameson says

      Jul 7, 2018 at 8:53 pm

      What America and all of the West should do, all lands not already Islamized actually, is keep Islam OUT of their land. This truly is the only solution. America even will fall to Islam if Islam is allowed to spread within our borders. It is just a matter of time. Muslims are born into Islam and there is a death penalty for leaving it. Even with so-called freedom of religion, that will not change, those children have no freedom of religion. So how is that compatible with America? Their numbers only grow, and eventually they will have enough to just eliminate the first amendment since it in fact violates their religion. The time will come when it will be too late, we can still save America, but the political will is not there, the future is Islamization, a slow death.

      • gravenimage says

        Jul 7, 2018 at 10:24 pm

        Yes–Islam needs to be kept out the West as much as possible.

  25. Steve says

    Jul 8, 2018 at 2:21 am

    A precision tactical nuke say vaporizing the center of Mecca and leaving a radioactive crater where the Ka’aba once stood would be a blow that Islam would be hard pressed to recover from, on multiple levels. But due to the strategic brilliance of the West in allowing eg Pakistan to attain nukes, Islam will probably continue as an existential threat for the rest of human time, on earth, and later, in space too.

  26. jimmww says

    Jul 9, 2018 at 1:34 am

    In Nov 2001 I wrote:
    THE POSSIBLE RESPONSES
    1. No legal entry to the country for muslims not willing to step on a Koran.
    2. No admission to police, military, or govt service for muslims not willing to step on a Koran.
    3. Reservations to be established for devout Muslims for self-governance under shari’a law. The first shall be in the 50-mile radius around Dearborn Mich.
    4. Mosques other than on reservations subject to 24-hour audio/video surveillance.
    5. No admission to scientific/technical programs for muslims not willing to step on a Koran.
    6. Abolish foreign aid to Muslim countries, and reinstitute it on an individual basis, based on attitude, cooperation and need. In that order.
    7. Muslims applying to police and military forces shall be subject to individual review.
    8. The State Dept shall immediately issue a formal denial of the rumor that our nuclear arsenal has been re-targeted to Mecca, Medina, Qom*, Najaf*, and Karbala*. Nor are there plans to do so. [*=Shia]

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