Turkey doesn’t recognize that any genocide of the Armenians, Assyrians, or Greeks took place. But it did. Get the details in my new book The History of Jihad From Muhammad to ISIS. Shayno Numansen simply wanted to explore her family’s history, but as far as the Turks are concerned, that history never existed, and Saxion College in the Netherlands knows who its new masters are.
“Dutch school bows to Turks and bars student documentary on Aramean Genocide,” Voice of Europe, July 8, 2018:
A Dutch school for higher education has blocked a documentary on the Aramean Genocide by one of its students, newspaper De Telegraaf reports.
Shayno Numansen, a Media and Communication student at Saxion College in Enschede, wanted to make a documentary about her family’s history.
Several of the girl’s predecessors were murdered in 1915 and she wanted to investigate what really happened.
For her documentary Numansen travelled to eastern Turkey to do research. As the Turks don’t accept the idea of the Aramean Genocide, the trip was very risky.
But the girl partly succeeded and made a documentary that was even featured in a festival.
“My great grandfather was spared because of his blue eyes, but he was made a slave and taken away”, Numansen tells De Telegraaf.
But suddenly the school cancelled everything, her interview, article and documentary. When the girl enquired as to the reason a spokesman said:
“Sometimes safety is more important than freedom of speech, what if Denk [A Turkish Muslim majority party] uses this, do you think you are still safe here in Enschede?”…
elee says
Either we have free inquiry into objective facts, or we don’t. SHAME ON THE NETHERLANDS.
Ernie says
No “elee ” , not “SHAME ON THE NETHERLANDS”. It isn’t The Netherlands banning this movie , it’s a SCHOOl-BOARD . So please , stop shouting and BLAMING A WHOLE COUNTRY . You are probably a russian troll , so please flush yourself….. Ernie , qa proud Dutchman
gravenimage says
No, elee is a staunch Anti-Jihadist from Britain.
It may not be all Dutchmen who are caving to Islam–certainly, those like Geert Wilders are not–but all too many are, sadly.
David says
Ernie, will the Dutch government tell the school board to allow this video to be shown? I think we already know the answer to this. However, I don’t doubt the Dutch people would like to see the film, but the government is against the people, as in many countries in Europe, except for Poland and Hungary and the Visigrad group.
mortimer says
Quotes acknowledging the Armenian Genocide – Turkey’s JIHAD AGAINST CHRISTIAN CIVILIANS
– Mustafa “Ataturk” Kemal
Founder of the modern Turkish Republic in 1923 and revered throughout Turkey, in an interview published on August 1, 1926 in The Los Angeles Examiner, talking about former Young Turks in his country…
‘These left-overs from the former Young Turk Party, who should have been made to account for the millions of our Christian subjects who were ruthlessly driven en masse, from their homes and massacred, have been restive under the Republican rule.’
– Adolf Hitler
While persuading his associates that a Jewish holocaust would be tolerated by the west stated…
‘Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?’
– Yossi Beilin
Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister. April 27, 1994 on the floor of the Knesset in response to a TV interview of the Turkish Ambassador:
‘It was not war. It was most certainly massacre and genocide, something the world must remember… We will always reject any attempt to erase its record, even for some political advantage.’
– Gerald Ford
Addressing the US House of Representatives.
‘Mr. Speaker, with mixed emotions we mark the 50th anniversary of the Turkish genocide of the Armenian people. In taking notice of the shocking events in 1915, we observe this anniversary with sorrow in recalling the massacres of Armenians and with pride in saluting those brave patriots who survived to fight on the side of freedom during World War I.’ – Congressional Record, pg. 8890
– Enver Pasha
One of the triumvirate rulers publicly declared on 19 May 1916…
‘The Ottoman Empire should be cleaned up of the Armenians and the Lebanese. We have destroyed the former by the sword, we shall destroy the latter through starvation.’
– Enver Pasha
One of the triumvirate rulers publicly declared on 19 May 1916…
‘You are greatly mistaken. We have this country absolutely under our control. I have no desire to shift the blame onto our underlings and I am entirely willing to accept the responsibility myself for everything that has taken place.’
– Talat Pasha
In a conversation with Dr. Mordtmann of the German Embassy in June 1915…
‘Turkey is taking advantage of the war in order to thoroughly liquidate (grundlich aufzaumen) its internal foes, i.e., the indigenous Christians, without being thereby disturbed by foreign intervention. What on earth do you want? The question is settled. There are no more Armenians.’
– Cemal Pasha
To a German officer upon seeing the deportations in Mamure said…
‘I am ashamed of my nation (Ich schame mich fur meine Nation)’
– Cemal Pasha
Minister of the Interior of Turkey publicly declared on March 15 that on the basis of computations undertaken by Ministry Experts…
‘800,000 Armenian deportees were actually killed…by holding the guilty accountable the government is intent on cleansing the bloody past.’
– Prince Abdul Mecid
Heir-Apparent to the Ottoman Throne, during an interview and later Caliph of Islam until 1924…
“I refer to those awful massacres. They are the greatest stain that has ever disgraced our nation and race. They were entirely the work of Talat and Enver. I heard some days before they began that they were intended. I went to Istanbul and insisted on seeing Enver. I asked him if it was true that they intended to recommence the massacres which had been our shame and disgrace under Abdul Hamid. The only reply I could get from him was: ‘It is decided. It is the program.’”
– Grand Vezir Damad Ferid Pasha
Equivalent rank in the US would be head of the cabinet I think. He described the treatment of the Armenians as…
‘A crime that drew the revulsion of the entire humankind.’
– Mustafa Arif
Minister of Interior stated on 13 December 1918…
“Surely a few Armenians aided and abetted our enemy, and a few Armenian Deputies committed crimes against the Turkish nation… it is incumbent upon a government to pursue the guilty ones. Unfortunately, our wartime leaders, imbued with a spirit of brigandage, carried out the law of deportation in a manner that could surpass the proclivities of the most bloodthirsty bandits. They decided to exterminate the Armenians, and they did exterminate them.’
– Henry Morgenthau, Sr.
U.S. Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire Ambassador Morgenthau’s Story, 1919
‘When the Turkish authorities gave the orders for these deportations, they were merely giving the death warrant to a whole race; they understood this well, and, in their conversations with me, they made no particular attempt to conceal the fact. . . . I am confident that the whole history of the human race contains no such horrible episode as this. The great massacres and persecutions of the past seem almost insignificant when compared to the sufferings of the Armenian race in 1915.’
British Viscount James Bryce
October 6, 1915, speech
‘The massacres are the result of a policy which, as far as can be ascertained, has been entertained for some considerable time by the gang of unscrupulous adventurers who are now in possession of the Government of the Turkish Empire. They hesitated to put it in practice until they thought the favorable moment had come, and that moment seems to have arrived about the month of April.’
– Count Wolff-Metternich
German Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire July 10, 1916, cable to the German Chancellor
‘In its attempt to carry out its purpose to resolve the Armenian question by the destruction of the Armenian race, the Turkish government has refused to be deterred neither by our representations, nor by those of the American Embassy, nor by the delegate of the Pope, nor by the threats of the Allied Powers, nor in deference to the public opinion of the West representing one-half of the world.’
– Theodore Roosevelt
May 11, 1918, letter to Cleveland Hoadley Dodge
‘. . . the Armenian massacre was the greatest crime of the war, and the failure to act against Turkey is to condone it . . . the failure to deal radically with the Turkish horror means that all talk of guaranteeing the future peace of the world is mischievous nonsense.’
– Herbert Hoover
The Memoirs of Herbert Hoover, 1952
‘The association of Mount Ararat and Noah, the staunch Christians who were massacred periodically by the Mohammedan Turks, and the Sunday School collections over fifty years for alleviating their miseries—all cumulate to impress the name Armenia on the front of the American mind.’
– Jimmy Carter
May 16, 1978, White House ceremony
‘It is generally not known in the world that, in the years preceding 1916, there was a concerted effort made to eliminate all the Armenian people, probably one of the greatest tragedies that ever befell any group. And there weren’t any Nuremberg trials.’
– Ronald Reagan
April 22, 1981, proclamation
‘Like the genocide of the Armenians before it, and the genocide of the Cambodians which followed it . . . the lessons of the Holocaust must never be forgotten.’
– George Bush Sr.
April 20, 1990, speech in Orlando, Florida
‘[We join] Armenians around the world [as we remember] the terrible massacres suffered in 1915–1923 at the hands of the rulers of the Ottoman Empire. The United States responded to this crime against humanity by leading diplomatic and private relief efforts.’
Winston Churchill, Prime Minister of Great Britain (1940-45, 1951-55)
‘ In 1915 the Turkish Government began and ruthlessly carried out the infamous general massacre and deportation of Armenians in Asia Minor.” “There is no reasonable doubt that this crime was planned and executed for political reasons.’
– Prof. Colin Tatz, Director, Centre for Comparative Genocide Studies
‘ The Turkish denial [of the Armenian Genocide] is probably the foremost example of historical perversion. With a mix of academic sophistication and diplomatic thuggery — of which we at Macquarie University have been targets — the Turks have put both memory and history into reverse gear.’
Stanley Cohen, Professor of Criminology, Hebrew University, Jerusalem
‘ The nearest successful example [of collective denial] in the modern era is the 80 years of official denial by successive Turkish governments of the 1915-17 genocide against the Armenians in which 1.5 million people lost their lives. This denial has been sustained by deliberate propaganda, lying and cover-ups, forging documents, suppression of archives, and bribing scholars.’
gravenimage says
+1
gravenimage says
And notice how many of those admitting the genocide are themselves Turkish.
Rajararam says
Muslims are masters mufflers and bluffers. . Unless the rest of the world vehemently wakes up in unison from their suicidal slumber, things are apt to get murkier and murkier, in every conceivable moment.
mortimer says
Well said, Raj.
Susan B is getting really mad@# says
Netherlands has gone insane. Since when is educating students about the truth and about the past not only right but very necessary?
They did the same in Canada with the film “Killing Europe” that was to be played at the Ottawa Public Library. I hope that Canada can turn this around next November 2019. I have a gut feeling that the globalist will do something to try to stop Canada from freeing themselves from liberalism.
Ernie says
A school board has gone insane , not ” The Netherlands ” , Susan B . But maybe you are not such a good reader , and a SCREAMER . Have a nice day ,………………..Ernie
6woods says
So, Ernie, I’m sure that you, as a proud Dutchman, and your presumably equally proud friends and family, will take up a petition to show members of that schoolboard how wrong they are. Right?
6woods says
I’m judging by your silence that you’re as dhimmified as the rest of Europe. You proud Dutchmen, or proud Englishmen, or proud Frenchmen (there are no proud Germans, only self-hating caricatures), are terrified. You can’t stand up for your own values or beliefs. Maybe you have none.
gravenimage says
Ernie, have you said anything to this school board?
6woods says
Of course not. Do you need to ask? There are are no proud dutchmen, Ernie’s protestations to the contrary. There are no “proud” Europeans antwhere. What a shame.
gravenimage says
There *are* proud Dutchmen, 6woods–Geert Wilders is one.
Susan B is getting really mad@# says
Erie, ease up, I was born in Holland and am proud of my ancestry. You are right it is not the country but the school board, but it is the elites that allow this. We have the same problem here in Canada.
Michael Copeland says
Thuggery wins.
Ernie says
A school board has gone insane , not ” The Netherlands ” , Susan B . But maybe you are not such a good reader , and a SCREAMER . Have a nice day ,………………..Ernie
brane pilot says
The bureaucrats running European society are products of a brainwashing regime AKA EU educational guidelines. As they are replaced by affirmative action hiring of Muslim migrants in coming decades, it will become a death spiral into a Sharia society.
Falsafa says
“Turkey doesn’t recognize that any genocide of the Armenians, Assyrians, or Greeks took place. But it did. Get the details in my new book….”
Really Mr Spencer? Here are academic references (below)…completely refuting the claim in your book that “it did”. Unfortunately Mr Spencer you have fallen victim to the propaganda from Asala, Dashnaktsutyun and the Greek far right.
the struggles and ethnic strife that took place during the dismemberment of the Ottoman Empire had nothing to do with religion, but rather was that of raw naked nationalism. case in point; the British, French and Russian efforts to incite rebellion by the Arabs, Greeks and Armenians in order secure; the suez canal, bosphorous straits and the vast oil reserves in kerkük, basra and the rest of arabia. one may argue that empire is a bad thing and that the national struggles of peoples of common heritage, language etc is a good thing. well tell that to the subject peoples in africa and asia living under french, british and belgian colonial rule at the time when the ottoman empire was being torn apart by these same european colonial powers. tell that as well to the first nations of north and south america today. Your attempts to dumb down history to that of religious fanaticism is in vain Mr Spencer. The references below prove you wrong.
◦ The Armenian Massacres in Ottoman Turkey: A Disputed Genocide by Guenter Lewy (ISBN13: 978-0874808902) [2005]
◦ The Ottoman Peoples and the End of Empire (Historical Endings) by Justin McCarthy (ISBN13: 978-0340706572)[2001]
◦ Death and Exile: The Ethnic Cleansing of Ottoman Muslims, 1821-1922 by Justin McCarthy (ISBN13: 978-0874808902) [1996]
◦ The Talat Pasha ‘telegrams’: Historical fact or Armenian fiction? – by Sinasi Orel [1986]
◦ The Armenian Rebellion at Van by Justin McCarthy (ISBN13: 978-0874808704) [2006]
◦ The Armenian File: The Myth of Innocence Exposed by Kamuran Gurun (ISBN13: 978-9759703042) [2001]
◦ Armenia — Secrets of a ‘Christian’ Terrorist State by Sam Weems [2002]
◦ Who Are the Turks? by Justin McCarthy (ISBN13: 978-0944675717) [2003]
◦ History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey: Volume 2, Reform, Revolution, and Republic: The Rise of Modern Turkey 1808-1975 by Stanford J. Shaw, Ezel Kural Shaw [1977]
◦ Eastern Front 1914-1917 by Norman Stone [2004]
◦ World War One: A Short History by Norman Stone [2007]
◦ British Documents on Ottoman Armenians – Volume I (1856-1880) by Bilal N. Simsir [1989]
◦ The Story behind Ambassador Morgenthau’s Story by Heath W. Lowry [1990]
◦ Military History of the Ottoman Empire: Mehmet to Atatürk by Mesut Uyar, Edward J Erickson [2008]
…and Bernard Lewis.
gravenimage says
Is the ludicrously self-styled “Falsafa” claiming that around 1.5 million Armenian, Greek, Assyrian, and Levantine Christians just committed suicide during this period?
Also, the Armenian Genocide began long before WWI–in the 1890s, and proceeded in waves of savagery through 1914-15 and the early 1920s.
After centuries of violence and oppression towards them, Turkey still had about two million Christians in the late 19th century–but by the end of the Genocide only a handful remained alive. Basically, over a thirty year period they murdered or drove out almost the entire Christian population.
And like so many deniers of genocide, “Falsafa” has no trouble with the continuing oppression and violence directed at the tiny remnant of survivors today.
David says
Myanmar recently tried to rid its country of Muslims, for obvious reasons. The Muslims pushed the renowned peaceful Buddhists just that bit too far. The straw that broke the camel’s back. The result was worldwide condemnation. Ethnic cleansing is surely preferable to genocide? Islam is clearly bad news for the world.
Falsafa says
5 million Ottoman Turks living in the Balkans since the 14th century have been decimated, massacred, forced out from their homes up from the 1800s up to Balkan wars in 1912. The Christian populations in Asia Minor mostly had to leave their homes in 1922/23 as a result of population exchanges between Greece and Turkey. sad but true.
read the sources I have provided before you put your foot in your mouth gravenimage
gravenimage says
More from the appalling “Falsafa”:
5 million Ottoman Turks living in the Balkans since the 14th century have been decimated, massacred, forced out from their homes up from the 1800s up to Balkan wars in 1912.
…………………………..
How *dare* the victims of Islam fight for freedom? No doubt “Falsafa” would condemn the Spanish, French, Italians, Sicilians, and Greeks on just the same basis. Don’t the filthy Infidels understand that once they are conquered by Muslims that they are *never* supposed to regain their freedom?
More:
The Christian populations in Asia Minor mostly had to leave their homes in 1922/23 as a result of population exchanges between Greece and Turkey. sad but true.
…………………………..
Well, *this* is perverse–pretending sympathy for the victims. It is like a Mafioso saying that someone who disappeared under mysterious circumstances “had to take a vacation–quick-like–for his health. Such a shame…”.
The fact is that by 1923 most of the Armenians and other Christians in Turkey had already been slaughtered–in the waves of mass murder in the 1890s, in the savagery of 1914-15, and in the shocking destruction of Smyrna in 1922. Very few were able to escape to Greece.
More:
read the sources I have provided before you put your foot in your mouth gravenimage
…………………………..
Ah…books like “The Armenian File: The Myth of Innocence Exposed” by Kâmuran Gürün. Gürün basically says that the Armenian Genocide never happened; that they deserved it, anyway; and that no one would have cared in any case if only Turkey had had a better propaganda machine at the time.
Nice try…
Falsafa says
on the contrary it was the invading greek armies that decimated the turkish population of western anatolio in their attempt to create a new byzantine empire ‘Megale Idea’ in 1920-22 as well as the Armenian teror groups attackimg from behind the Ottoman lines and thr Turkish civilian population during 1915 in support of the advancing Russian armies that attempted to cleanse these lands from thre Turkish population just like in thr Balkans (5m) leading up to the Balkan wars in 1911-12.
You can only fool yourself gravenimage!
gravenimage says
“Falsafa” wrote:
on the contrary it was the invading greek armies that decimated the turkish population of western anatolio in their attempt to create a new byzantine empire ‘Megale Idea’ in 1920-22 as well as the Armenian teror groups attackimg from behind the Ottoman lines and thr Turkish civilian population during 1915 in support of the advancing Russian armies that attempted to cleanse these lands from thre Turkish population just like in thr Balkans (5m) leading up to the Balkan wars in 1911-12.
……………………
Good God, what crap. The Greeks only belatedly (and ineffectively) intervened because Turks has been slaughtering Christians for decades at that point, and more and more they were then victimizing Greeks as well as Armenians, Assyrians, and Levantines.
And no–the Russians never threatened Turkey–“Falsafa” is just enraged that Russia liberated the Christian Balkans decades before from oppressive Ottoman rule.
And to refer to Armenian “teror” groups is just sick blaming of the victims. Muslims are great at projection. I guess some of the Turkish troops injured themselves murdering pregnant Armenian women…
More:
You can only fool yourself gravenimage!
……………………
Actually, “Falsafa” is the one fooling himself if he thinks that most people think that the Armenian Genocide was actually Armenians violently attacking the powerful Turkish government.
The Armenian Genocide was internationally known at the time–and these absurd denials are working about as well as Holocaust denials do:
https://web.archive.org/web/20060416082159/http://www.genocidewatch.org/TurkishPMIAGSOpenLetterreArmenia6-13-05.htm
Falsafa says
THE TEXT OF THE STATEMENT BY AMERICAN SCHOLARS AND HISTORIANS ADDRESSED TO THE U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES (Published in New York Times on May 19,1985) “ATTENTION MEMBERS OF THE U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES The undersigned American academicians who specialize in Turkish, Ottoman and Middle Eastern Studies are concerned that the current language embodied in House Joint Resolution 192 is misleading and/or inaccurate in several respects. Specifically, while fully supporting the concept of a “National Day of Remembrance of Man’s Inhumanity to Man,” we respectfully take exception to that portion of the text which singles out for special recognition: “… the one and one half million people of Armenian ancestry who were victims of genocide perpetrated in Turkey between 1915 and 1923 . . ..” Our reservations focus on the use of the words “Turkey” and “genocide” and may be summarized as follows: From the fourteenth century until 1922, the area currently known as Turkey, or more correctly, the Republic of Turkey, was part of the territory encompassing the multinational, multi-religious state known as the Ottoman Empire. It is wrong to equate the Ottoman Empire with the Republic of Turkey in the same way that it is wrong to equate the Hapsburg Empire with the Republic of Austria. The Ottoman Empire, which was brought to an end in 1922, by the successful conclusion of the Turkish Revolution which established the present day Republic of Turkey in 1923, incorporated lands and people which today account for more than twenty-five distinct countries in Southeastern Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East, only one of which is the Republic of Turkey. The Republic of Turkey bears no responsibility for any events which occurred in Ottoman times, yet by naming ‘Turkey’ in the Resolution, its authors have implicitly labeled it as guilty of “genocide” it charges transpired between 1915 and 1923; As for the charge of “genocide” no signatory of this statement wishes to minimize the scope of Armenian suffering. We are likewise cognizant that it cannot be viewed as separate from the suffering experienced by the Muslim inhabitants of the region. The weight of evidence so far uncovered points in the direct of serious inter communal warfare (perpetrated by Muslim and Christian irregular forces), complicated by disease, famine, suffering and massacres in Anatolia and adjoining areas during the First World War. Indeed, throughout the years in question, the region was the scene of more or less continuous warfare, not unlike the tragedy which has gone on in Lebanon for the past decade. The resulting death toll among both Muslim and Christian communities of the region was immense. But much more remains to be discovered before historians will be able to sort out precisely responsibility between warring and innocent, and to identify the causes for the events which resulted in the death or removal of large numbers of the eastern Anatolian population, Christian and Muslim alike. Statesmen and politicians make history, and scholars write it. For this process to work scholars must be given access to the written records of the statesmen and politicians of the past. To date, the relevant archives in the Soviet Union, Syria, Bulgaria and Turkey all remain, for the most part, closed to dispassionate historians. Until they become available, the history of the Ottoman Empire in the period encompassed by H.J. Res. 192 (1915-1923) cannot be adequately known. We believe that the proper position for the United States Congress to take on this and related issues is to encourage full and open access to all historical archives and not to make charges on historical events before they are fully understood. Such charges as those contained H.J. Res. 192 would inevitably reflect unjustly upon the people of Turkey and perhaps set back progress irreparably. Historians are just now beginning to achieve in understanding these tragic events. As the above comments illustrate, the history of the Ottoman-Armenians is much debated among scholars, many of whom do not agree with the historical assumptions embodied in the wording of H.J. Res. 192. By passing the resolution Congress will be attempting to determine by legislation which side of the historical question is correct. Such a resolution, based on historically questionable assumptions, can only damage the cause of honest historical inquiry, and damage the credibility of the American legislative process.”
SIGNATORIES TO THE STATEMENT ON H.J. RES. 192 ADDRESSED TO THE MEMBERS OF THE U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES RIFAAT ABOU-EL-HAJ Professor of History California State University at Long Beach SARAH MOMENT ATIS Professor of Turkish Language & Literature University of Wisconsin at Madison KARL BARBIR Associate Professor of History Siena College (New York) ILHAN BASGOZ Director of the Turkish Studies Program at the Department of Uralic & Altaic Studies Indiana University DANIEL G. BATES Professor of Anthropology Hunter College, City University of New York ULKU BATES Professor of Art History Hunter College City University of New York GUSTAV BAYERLE Professor of Uralic & Altaic Studies Indiana University ANDREAS G. E. BODROGLIGETTI Professor of Turkic & Iranian languages University of California at Los Angeles KATHLEEN BURRILL Associate Professor of Turkish Studies Columbia University RODERIC DAVISON Professor of History George Washington University WALTER DENNY Associate Professor of Art History & Near Eastern Studies University of Massachusetts DR. ALAN DUBEN Anthropologist, Researcher New York City ELLEN ERVIN Research Assistant Professor of Turkish New York University JOHN HYMES Professor of History Glenville State College West Virginia RALPH JAECKEL Visiting Assistant Professor of Turkish University of California at Los Angeles JAMES KELLY Associate Professor of Turkish University of Utah PETER GOLDEN Professor of History Rutgers University, Newark TOM GOODRICH Professor of History Indiana University of Pennsylvania ANDREW COULD Ph.D. in Ottoman History Flagstaff, Arizona MICHAEL MEEKER Professor of Anthropology University of California at San Diego THOMAS NAFF Professor of History & Director, Middle East Research Institute University of Pennsylvania WILLIAM OCHSENWALD Associate Professor of History Virginia Polytechnic Institute WILLIAM PEACHY Assistant Professor of the Judaic & Near Eastern Languages & Literatures The Ohio State University HOWARD REED Professor of History University of Connecticut TIBOR HALASI-KUN Professor Emeritus of Turkish Studies Columbia University J. C. HUREWITZ Professor of Government Emeritus Former Director of the Middle East Institute (1971-1984) Columbia University HALIL INALCIK University Professor of Ottoman History & Member of the American Academy of Arts& Sciences University of Chicago, RONALD JENNINGS Associate Professor of History & Asian Studies University of Illinois KERIM KEY Adjunct Professor Southeastern University Washington, D.C. DANKWART RUSTOW Distinguished University Professor of Political Science City University Graduate School New York STANFORD SHAW Professor of History University of California at Los Angeles METIN KUNT Professor of Ottoman History New York City AVIGDOR LEVY Professor of History Brandeis University DR. HEATH W. LOWRY Institute of Turkish Studies Inc. Washington, D.C. JOHN MASSON SMITH, JR. Professor of History University of California at Berkeley ROBERT STAAB Assistant Director of the Middle East Center University of Utah JAMES STEWARD-ROBINSON Professor of Turkish Studies University of Michigan FRANK TACHAU Professor of Political Science University of Illinois at Chicago DAVID THOMAS Associate Professor of History Rhode Island College WARREN S. WALKER Home Professor of English & Director of the Archive of Turkish Oral Narrative Texas Tech University WALTER WEIKER Professor of Political Science Rutgers University MADELINE ZILFI Associate Professor of History University of Maryland ELAINE SMITH Ph.D. in Turkish History Retired Foreign Service Officer Washington, D.C. EZEL KURAL SHAW Associate Professor of History California State University, Northridge FREDERICK LATIMER Associate Professor of History (Retired) University of Utah BERNARD LEWIS Cleveland E. Dodge Professor of Near Eastern History Princeton University GRACE M. SMITH Visiting Lecturer in Turkish University of California at Berkeley DR. SVAT SOUCEK Turcologist, New York City JUNE STARR Associate Professor of Anthropology SUNY Stony Brook DR. PHILIP STODDARD Executive Director, Middle East Institute Washington, D.C. METIN TAMKOC Professor of International Law and Regulations Texas Tech University MARGARET L. VENZKE Assistant Professor of History Dickinson College (Pennsylvania) DONALD WEBSTER Professor of Turkish History, Retired JOHN WOODS Associate Professor of Middle Eastern History University of Chicago.
Falsafa says
Greek Atrocities in Anatolia, Part One, War and Ethnic Cleansing, 1919-1922
Greek researcher, writer and journalist Tasos Kostopulos revealed the Greek barbarism in Anatolia.
Murder, Rape and Torture
Greek soldiers and armed local Christian militia murdered, raped and looted for 2 days. They killed 200 people and 2500 people were tortured, including the entire students of a class and their teacher of the local school.
Some Jews in the city were also murdered and their shops were looted. Greek army attacked all the Muslim villages in the surrounding region of Izmir province. Allied commission reports stated that Greeks were responsible for the bloodshed in Izmir.
Shooting Practice Against Children
Greek doctor tells, “In a village close to Usak province, Turkish women, children and old people locked themselves up into a Mosque to hide. Our soldiers discovered the situation.
They fired up the grass they picked from the ground and threw it inside the window of the Mosque. People ran outside from the smoke and our barbarians started shooting at the women and children like they were doing target practice.”
Screams of The Turkish Girl
* I entered to the house, stepped over the dead body of an old Turkish man. Noise was coming from inside. 10 Greek soldiers were forcing a Turkish girl to dance and lifting her skirt up. They told me, “come join us”. I told them “inappropriate” in Turkish.
Turkish girl ran next to me and told me to save her. I begged to the soldiers, told them not to that kind of treatment to a woman. One of them pointed his bayonet at me and I had to escape. I couldnt forget the screams of the girl. Close to the morning, 1000 houses in Kopruhisar was on fire.
(Dimitriu, Greek Military Officer, 1920)
* Greek soldier tells, “Prince Andreas ordered us to burn everything.”
* Greek army photographer tells, “We are burning everywhere we leave, its a horrible sight.”
(30 August 1921)
* Some of us are happy like Neron who burned Rome. The orders are clear, “Burn anything that you cant carry. Including the old, sick, crippled and children.
(Nikos Vasilikos, 4 September 1921)
Rape in Front of The Families
Greek officer tells, “We entered to Ariveren village. Girls were raped in front of their families. Soldiers slept on the silk blankets they looted that night.
(9 July 1921)
* Turks were hiding their families at graveyards at nights in Usak province because of fear. I saved a young girl from 2 Greek soldiers that wanted to rape her. Her mother ran to me and started kissing my hands. Her other 2 daughters were laying down on the ground dead.
(Lt. Panagakos)
***
Tasos Kostopulos, War and Ethnic Cleansing, 1919-1922
***
Stacy Girl says
Falsifier has memorized the entire taqquiya library. Congratulations,
mortimer says
SOME CONCLUSIVE COMMENTS FROM 2 LEADING GENOCIDE SCHOLARS:
– Prof. Colin Tatz, Director, Centre for Comparative Genocide Studies
‘ The Turkish denial [of the Armenian Genocide] is probably the foremost example of historical perversion. With a mix of academic sophistication and diplomatic thuggery — of which we at Macquarie University have been targets — the Turks have put both memory and history into reverse gear.’
– Stanley Cohen, Professor of Criminology, Hebrew University, Jerusalem
‘ The nearest successful example [of collective denial] in the modern era is the 80 years of official denial by successive Turkish governments of the 1915-17 genocide against the Armenians in which 1.5 million people lost their lives. This denial has been sustained by deliberate propaganda, lying and cover-ups, forging documents, suppression of archives, and bribing scholars.’
TURKEY: COVERING UP ONE OF THE GREATEST CRIMES OF THE TWENTIETH CENTURY!
David says
Strange but nobody has mentioned Holocaust deniers. Strange that people can deny verifiable facts.
gravenimage says
Holocaust deniers and Armenian Genocide deniers are generally very much of a piece. Their usual stance is that the genocide never happened, but that they also plan more of the same for the survivors. *Ugh*.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Mr Spencer, but no school in the west teaches on killings of more than 15% of Algerians during that brutal colonisation of Algeria and attempt to annex it into France by mithraist French Christians and erasing of the original inhabitants of Americas by mithraist Christians from Europe and settled there. why and why not?
gravenimage says
Witless Tu Quoque. Firstly, only one author I have ever seen has ever made such a claim re Algeria–in fact, the population of Algeria *grew* hugely during the period of French colonization.
In 1850, the population was around 1.5 million–by 1900, it was 4.6 million, by 1960, 10 million.
Contrast this with Turkey, which had a Christian population of 2 million in the late 19th century–almost all of whom were wiped out over the next couple of decades. Today, there are no more than 300,000 Christians of all denominations surviving in Turkey–less than the population of the town I live in.
Meanwhile, the Muslim population of Turkey has gone from about 10 million in 1890 to almost 80 million today.
It is *quite* clear that there was a genocide of Christians in Turkey, and no genocide of Muslims in Algeria.
This is absurd, in any case–Ibrahim itace muhammed has affirmed that Muslims have the right to slaughter any “filthy mithraist (sic) christians” who don’t submit to Islam.
Lydia Church says
He just proves the reality of the filthy koran!
In that case we have the right to usher in a new Crusade and kill all the filthy mithraist muslims and extinguish their filthy islam religion of satan (allah) and the devil’s messenger (mahomet),
for not submitting to the one true religion of Christianity and the one true God; the God of the Bible!
Eeeeeeeew yeah, those like him can read it and burn with rage (and in hell later, which exists for such as him), and I won’t come back later for any replies…… as I never do…. besides, why should I as I am right the first time anyway!
: D
Haaa-haaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!
alex smythe says
Ibe:if Muslims had arrived in the Americas first, there would likely have been a genocide against the First Nations people that would have dwarfed what the European Christians did. After all, the original inhabitants of the Americas were polytheists who worshipped the sun and other forces of nature. Also, I went to school in the West and we did learn about the genocides against First Nations peoples. As for French crimes in Algeria, Vietnam, Haiti, parts of sub-Saharan Africa and in other French colonies, we learned a little bit about that, but not enough I regret to say. Nonethless, why do many Muslims flatly deny the genocides against millions of Hindus, Buddhists, Christians and others, which have been perpetrated by Muslims in the past?
gravenimage says
+1
mortimer says
ALEX THEY FLATLY DENY THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE BY THEY AFFIRM THE FLAT EARTH:
“The earth is flat. Whoever claims it is round is an atheist deserving of punishment.”
—Sheik Abdul Aziz bin Abdullah bin Baz, supreme religious authority Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, 1992
– Quran was 88:20 “wa ela alard kaifa sutehat” -> English “and to the earth how it is flattened”
– … who has made the earth AS FLAT and comfortable as a bed and placed upon it mountains standing firm… (Tafsir Ibn Kathir (Part 1), Surah Al-Fatihah Surah Al-Baqarah, ayat 1 to 141, abridged by Sheikh Muhammad Nasib Ar-Rafa’i [Al-Firdous Ltd., London, 1998 second edition], pp. 79-80)
-The two Jalals say:
And the earth, how was it laid out flat?… and thus infer from this the power of God, exalted be He, and His Oneness? The commencing with the [mention of] camels is because they are closer in contact with it [the earth] than any other [animal]. As for His words sutihat, ‘laid out flat’, this on a literal reading suggests THAT THE EARTH IS FLAT, WHICH IS THE OPINION OF MOST OF THE SCHOLARS of the [revealed] Law, and not a sphere as astronomers (ahl al-hay’a) have it, even if this [latter] does not contradict any of the pillars of the Law. (source: Tafsir al-Jalalayn)
mortimer says
IBRAHIM … the LAST CALIPH OF TURKEY and of the ISLAMIC EMPIRE OF TURKEY ADMITTED THE GENOCIDES:
– Prince Abdul Mecid, Heir-Apparent to the Ottoman Throne (and later Caliph of Islam until 1924), during an interview …
“I refer to those awful massacres. They are the greatest stain that has ever disgraced our nation and race. They were entirely the work of Talat and Enver. I heard some days before they began that they were intended. I went to Istanbul and insisted on seeing Enver. I asked him if it was true that they intended to recommence the massacres which had been our shame and disgrace under Abdul Hamid. The only reply I could get from him was: ‘It is decided. It is the program.’”
THE LEADER OF ALL ISLAM ADMITTED THE ARMENIAN, PONTIC and ASSYRIAN GENOCIDES.
So, Ibrahim … you lose.
David says
Okay, so both sides have done wrong. What is the body count then, on each side? Let’s have a list of genocides.
DovidNosson says
23 April 1915: The Armenian Genocide
A child strung across an acre (is
like a rose whose gardener drank
the full bottle) of forgetfulness.
The limbs are filament. the skull is florets
opening to boy & woman, a strolling soldier
flaunts in selfsubtracting love-me, love-me (not)
until the human form becomes this acaulescent bulb.
Tryst assured. She-loves-me is the last foot sawed
from squirming ankles. Laborious indifference. The deep
moaning night-fields shadowbox waves of disintegrating
women collecting petals, born between thighs and dead between
ankle deep flesh split-wrenched agony dragged
out of clinging thistle twigs, an arm–elbow to pinky.
Here, a thumb. A hip. A torso. A bottom lip….
Hands that grasp doll parts, apomorphic. Thump! Thump!
heaved into dew-kissed piss-drenched baskets
woven by she-loves-me hands.
Later, in the hovel made of pressed bodies that slither west,
(a weightless mass–already ghosts) below
the starriest skies—away from every lamplight–squinting
eyes trade dangling tendons like stems and stigma
lay them out to play matching-pieces. The dead
reconstructing the dead.
gravenimage says
Netherlands: School bows to Turks and bars student documentary on Aramean Genocide
………………….
Appalling.
Elisha says
Truth hurts. John 8:32
SK says
As far as this documentary is concerned, I think Turkish German groups should be ignored if they cause a ruckus. It’s just a documentary, and saying that the Ottoman Empire committed genocide is not illegal in Germany.
infidel says
Suppressing truth and hiding grisly grimy skeletons in their cupboards of violence and hatred with death threats and intimidation is the USUAL strategy of Islam and Muslims. They behave just like a gang of criminal thugs..But this cannot go on forever…
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Lydia church, that genocide killings of Muslims by mithraist christians is exactly what your Satan god(holy spirit) inspired in Samuel 15:3 and carried out by churchmen during crusade wars, in Spain, by mithraist French Christians and by mithraist christian serbs in Bosnia, you idiot mithraist christian apologists are telling us that the command by Satan god in Samuel 15:3 to kill all those living with exception of little girls to be kept as sex slaves. wicked god of all evils!!
Pete says
You know something ibby, its better to eliminate all good for nothing mithraist muslims from earth. All you hate filled muslims are lazy parasites sucking on the infidels hard work whilst at the same time plotting against us.
1.6 billion muslims, more than 1400 years of jihad (yeah you kill each other too) and f***ing allah cannot even give you victory over us.
You dont have brains because your pedo rasullah has locked them shut with islamic insanity
David says
Ibby, Just think about Islamic child rape gangs in the present day. You are quoting something that happened 2000 years ago. We have moved on, but Islam hasn’t.
gravenimage says
Talk about projection! And Ibrahim itace muhammed has said that Infidel girls may be kept as sex slaves–of course, no Jews or Christians are doing any such thing.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Mortimer, it is your filthy and clumsy mithraist Bible that says the earth is flat and that the moon has its own light not reflection from sun light, all of which Science has proven to be false. Cite any Quranic verse or Hadith, which says the earth is flat. Ignorant fool!!
Pete says
I see you are mentally challenged too
David says
gravenimage, I saw your comment and strangely read: Neanderthals.
gravenimage says
🙂
David says
Ibby, I believe your good book says that the sun sets in a muddy puddle
gravenimage says
Ibrahim itace muhammed wrote:
Mortimer, it is your filthy and clumsy mithraist Bible that says the earth is flat and that the moon has its own light not reflection from sun light, all of which Science has proven to be false. Cite any Quranic verse or Hadith, which says the earth is flat. Ignorant fool!!
……………………
No, the Bible does not say that the earth is flat. And Genesis 1:15 reads:
“Let them [sun and moon] be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth.”
It does not actually matter in this context whether moonlight is reflected or self-generated.
But Qur’an 78:6-7 reads:
Have We not made the earth a flat carpet?
And the mountains as stakes?
In other words, the earth is like a picnic blanket held down by mountains. Sounds pretty flat to me.
And the Hadith describe the sun setting in a muddy puddle.
Of course, I am much less concerned with the scientific shortcomings of the Qur’an and Hadith than with their preaching of savage violence–all of which Ibrahim itace muhammed very much agrees with.
Susan B says
+1
gravenimage says
Thank you, Susan.
Gjallarhornet says
The Dutch are good at enjoying freedom, but they are useless standing up for it.