First, the question of fact. Was Muhammad a pedophile who kept sex slaves?
Hadiths that Muslims consider authentic record that Muhammad’s favorite wife, Aisha, was six when Muhammad wedded her and nine when he consummated the marriage:
“The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death)” (Bukhari 7.62.88).
Another tradition has Aisha herself recount the scene:
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, “Best wishes and Allah’s Blessing and a good luck.” Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah’s Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. (Bukhari 5.58.234).
Muhammad was at this time fifty-four years old.
And as for sex slaves, the Qur’an has Allah telling Muhammad that he has given him girls as sex slaves: “Prophet, We have made lawful to you the wives to whom you have granted dowries and the slave girls whom God has given you as booty.” (Qur’an 33:50)
Muhammad took female Infidel captives as sex slaves: “Narrated Anas: The Prophet offered the Fajr Prayer near Khaibar when it was still dark and then said, ‘Allahu-Akbar! Khaibar is destroyed, for whenever we approach a (hostile) nation (to fight), then evil will be the morning for those who have been warned.’ Then the inhabitants of Khaibar came out running on the roads. The Prophet had their warriors killed, their offspring and woman taken as captives. Safiya was amongst the captives. She first came in the share of Dahya Alkali but later on she belonged to the Prophet. The Prophet made her manumission as her ‘Mahr.’” (Bukhari 5.59.512) Mahr is bride price: Muhammad freed her and married her, i.e., raped her.
But in this as in all such cases, the facts don’t matter. Michael Craven of the Leftist hate group Tell Mama UK claims: “There was a definite tarring of the Muslim community as a whole as rapists and paedophiles.”
Did Batten say anything about the Muslim community as a whole? No. But this is a common tactic of Islamic apologists and their Leftist Useful Idiots: claim that any analysis of how jihadists and Sharia supremacists use the texts and teachings of Islam to justify terrorism and other violence (including the rape of Infidel women) tars the entire Muslim community with responsibility for their crimes. There is no reason why this should be so, and it isn’t so, but it plays well with the British government and media, and that’s all that matters to Tell Mama UK and its Craven spokesman.
“Ukip leader Gerard Batten calls Muhammad a paedophile at Tommy Robinson rally,” by Eleanor Busby, Independent, July 15, 2018:
Ukip’s leader has called the prophet Muhammad a paedophile at a rally for jailed far-right leader Tommy Robinson.
Gerard Batten, an MEP for London, told protesters campaigning for the release of Robinson in London that “rape gang members are predominately followers of the cult of Muhammad”.
In remarks prepared for the rally in London on Saturday, Mr Batten claimed the founder of Islam was “a paedophile who kept sex slaves”.
His comments were called “deeply disturbing” and “worrying” by an anti-Islamophobia group.
In a speech provided to The Independent by Ukip, Mr Batten said: “The great British media do not want to talk about the group identity of the rapists, or the ideology that inspires them.
“The rape gang members are predominately followers of the cult of Muhammad.
“They can justify their crimes to themselves because their ideology tells them that non-cult followers are lesser human beings.”
Mr Batten added: “The founder of their cult was himself a paedophile who kept sex slaves. And he is held up to be a perfect model for them to follow for all time.
“But we, the infidels and kaffirs, are not supposed to talk about it. And people who do face possibly criminal prosecution under our so-called ‘hate laws’.”
Campaigning group Hope Not Hate called the speech “shocking” on Twitter, added that his comments about Muslims were “vile”.
Michael Craven, of Tell Mama UK, which monitors anti-Muslim incidents, said he was disturbed by the “inflammatory” remarks about the prophet which he said had been received with cheers.
He claimed one attendee of the rally shouted: “We should hang them all”.
“It was deeply inflammatory. There was a definite tarring of the Muslim community as a whole as rapists and paedophiles,” Mr Craven told The Independent….
Marty says
leftists can’t handle the truth or facts or common sense. This is why they are losers.
Andy says
GB for GB!
Free Tommy Rally, London | 14th July (Full Recording)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D87z23CJGC0
Andy says
PATRIOTS NEED TO STAND TOGETHER NOW MORE THAN EVER!!!
FREE TOMMY!!!
Linda says
That rally was inspirational.
Andy says
+1
Anne Smith says
If only they were. Under Theresa May they seem to be the winners.
BC says
He is either very rash or very brave. If some do gooder brings a hate speech charge against him he will likely end up in jail himself!
Tony Holland says
Brilliant stuff by Gerrard Batten,he has brought a new drive to the party,not only with his anti Brussels stance but by addressing,arguably the far more important issue of the rise of the detested islam which has been encouraged by appeasing and successive weak governments in the West.
He realises and advocates that we cannot possibly tolerate or allow this vile cult to dominate our lives and culture and desecrate the lives of our people whether young or old and If only the other ‘fringe’ organisations would join forces with UKIP and give the increasingly desperate population a movement to ‘get behind’ to combat the treacherous Con/Lab conspiritors who have decided to abandon us for the sake of PC but more likely,for the sake of their overpaid and privileged publicly funded careers,they are just as evil in their own way as the islamic filth we must confront.
Phobic-ist says
+100
TWG says
Well, he was a pedophile who kept sex slaves.
But then…… “Truth is treason in an empire of lies.”
It’s like Holy water to vampires.
gravenimage says
+1
elee says
Hey Left: Read up and wake up.
If as you claim, your concern is with the oppressed of the earth, wake up to how Muslim populations live under shariah. Wake up to what they do to women and ethnic/religious minorities. Wake up to their plans for the entire world, after they kill everyone who resists.
Paul says
Its a fact. And his followers copy his example as can be seen by their using underage girls and trafficking them to each other in NUMEROUS cases.
gravenimage says
Yes.
d says
It is always the messenger that is killed first.
DogOnPorch says
The truth hurts.
James Lincoln says
I can’t help but think of the movie “A Few Good Men” (1992).
Kaffee: I want the truth!
Col Jessup: You can’t handle the truth!
Rarely says
It was probably all OK in the context of 7th century desert tribal life. How many rich old guys in the west today have trophy wives decades younger than they? Has there ever been a war where the loser’s females weren’t raped?
Mohammed was acting normally for his time. But trying to emulate him in the West today gets one imprisoned. We (non-muslims) picture a God that would never condone the way mohammed acted let alone set him up to be an example to be emulated. The only way muslims can justify it is by considering all others as inferior (e.g. descendants of apes and pigs) much like Nazi Germany could justify its cruelty to Jews, homosexuals, etc. because they were sub-human.
Islam will never be compatible in Western society unless and until muslims are called to account whenever our laws are broken (like everyone else is) and not even a toe hold is allowed for sharia law. Eventually they will become compliant (IF their numbers don’t overwhelm us first).
gravenimage says
Actually, this was fairly unusual even for the time. Given the much shorter life expectancy of the time, it is hardly surprising that many girls married right after puberty. But even in the dark ages, deflowering nine-year-old children was far from the norm.
Rarely says
You may be right. It may have been an aberration but probably not a very big one. In any event I don’t think it would be seen as the abhorrent act we do today. Because of the great differences in time and location I’m trying to cut mohammed some slack. Under no circumstances do his actions justify copying them today. Under no circumstances no how.
In any event it is impossible to see him as an emissary of the Almighty. Too little respect for others and way too much hatred.
Terry Gain says
According to Muslim sources Aisha was pre-pubescent when Muhammad raped her. This is hardly the behaviour of a holy man. Stop rationalizing his disgusting behaviour. Marriage at 6, sex at 9. Barbaric.
gravenimage says
True, Terry.
Baucent says
Correct, and in fact most of the middle east (the old Roman Empire part) by the 7th century had be “Christianized” and New Testament morality (which condemned polygamy as well) the new values. Muhammad and his invented religion turned the clock back to less enlightened times and as often happens in controlling cults, the leader quickly degenerates into base sexual pleasure seeking. Nothing holy about Muhammed. His known behaviour makes that clear.
Berengaria says
Gerard Batten is another Hero of mine. It’s so comforting to know that there are Brits, Lots of Brits, who think that telling the Truth about the Cult of Islam is more important than those who resist the Truth, thinking that they will be spared by the Muslims.
No one in the UK will be spared, you either submit or the Muslims will kill you. How many Elderly & Young Girls & Boys have been singled out & terrorized or killed? The Muslims only target the Weak & Defenseless at first, but later on, it’s everyone in their Host Nation, who will be dealt with.
don vito says
True, he is part of the new “few”.
Stacy Girl says
On the British patriotic fb pages, the seething pent-up rage of many Britons is spilling over. I am glad that Donald Trump went to the UK. The contrast between Trump and that petty door knob Sadiq Khan put the latter in his ugly true light.
gravenimage says
I was not familiar with Gerard Batten. Glad to hear about another British patriot!
overman says
Thank God. l thought UKIP was dead. Farage is too soft when it comes to lslam.
Susan B says
overman, I agree.
Gjallarhornet says
What’s the problem?
Brian says
Well it’s the truth.A child rapist and murderer.
Brian says
.A child rapist and murderer.
granddaddy says
“Mr Craven added that Tell Mama UK had recorded a rise in physical attacks on Muslims”
Mr Batten forgot to mention they are liars too.
gravenimage says
Yep.
Carl Goldberg, PhD says
Yes, the Islamic sources tell us that Muhammad, at the age of 51, married a 6-year old girl, and that, at the age of 54, when Aisha was 9, he started having sex with her. All true. But, does that make him a “pedophile”? Pedophilia is defined as “sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object;”. Muhammad had about eleven wives and who knows how many women slaves, but is there any evidence that they were children? A pedophile has a habit of having sex with children. Muhammad married the one child, had sex with her when she was nine, and she remained his wife until he died. That seems not to meet the definition of pedophiloia.
While we need to point out that Muhammad saw nothing wrong with marrying a child, it is neither accurate nor useful to our cause to label him a pedophile.
Westman says
It is useful to point out that under the laws of non-Islamic nations, what Muhammad did, marrying a child as an additional wife, would be prosecuted as sexual assault and bigamy. Just ask some of those FLDS men in Texas.
Of course, Muhammad had the privilege of determining what would be the norm under Islam, just like Jim Jones, David Koresh, and Sun Myung Moon in their “prophethood”.
It must have been a shock to Abu Bakr who was so invested in, and rewarded by, Islam that he could not refuse Muhammad. Considering that Arabs were burying live baby girls in the sand, pre-Islam, perhaps Aisha was already of little value to Abu Bakr.
So, ok, Muhammad would be a sexual pervert-rapist under Western Law; that’s so much better than pedophile.
don vito says
You make a good point, but there maybe some disagreement over definition. From Psychology Today “Pedophilia is defined as the fantasy or act of sexual activity with children who are generally age 13 years or younger. Pedophiles are usually men and can be attracted to either or both sexes. How well they relate to adults of the opposite sex varies.” So, by this definition the label seems to ring true, no?
eduardo odraude says
Carl Goldberg, even according to your definition, Muhammad arguably was a pedophile. Why? Because Aisha throughout his life was his favorite wife, according to the Islamic sources.
eduardo odraude says
Even if it should be disputed that Aisha was Muhammad’s favorite wife, the dispute is not based on whom Muhammad wanted to sleep with most — that was clearly Aisha according to the Islamic sources themselves. Rather, the dispute is based on statements where Muhammad expresses love for his first wife, with whom he was monogomous and with whom he was married before Islam was successful. His love of Kadija, his first wife, was based to a large extent on the fact that she supported him in numerous ways when few others did. In a spiritual sense, if you will, Kadija was his favorite wife. But his favorite wife for sex was Aisha.
Besides, most definitions of the word pedophilia — whether you look in medical dictionaries or in regular dictionaries — do not say it indicates there must be a “preference” for children. All definitions I looked at, except for the one you cite, simply say pedophilia means an abnormal sexual desire for children, without excluding the possibility of sexual attraction to adults, and without mentioning “preference.”
So perhaps you are using an anomalous outlier definition of pedophilia?
eduardo odraude says
And when I say Muhammad “loved” his first wife, I used the term a bit carelessly, as I doubt Muhammad, strictly speaking, was capable of love.
Norger says
OK then, he was then,at a minimum a child rapist; presumably we can agree that a 9 year old is incapable of consent. We’ll call M a rapist whose victims included children, but that is only marginally less offensive. As the saying goes, you can’t put lipstick on a pig.
Tom says
So if one were to simply “try it out” that is, have sex with a nine year old child, one cannot be considered a pedophile unless one makes it habitual? Is that the basis of your comment?
So it is acceptable to sexually exploit a child once, but unacceptable to continue to do it?
That my fried is complete and utter BS in a civilized society.
John Hawk says
If Muhammad had eleven wives and numerous sex slaves, shall we assume they were all adults with only one child? I would like to see their ages before drawing that conclusion. The captives, if particular, may have been victims of rape and pedophilia. In any event, if Muhammad had any virtue in the matter of sexual behavior, it eludes me.
gravenimage says
Carl, there are essentially two types of pedophiles. You are referring to people who are *only* attracted to pre-pubescent children; this is actually quite rare.
Far more common are those who are attracted to children along with others. The common situation here is someone who is drawn to exploiting vulnerable victims. I was involved with a case where the perp’s victims included children, an elderly woman, several women who were disabled, and at least one who was asleep at the time of the attack.
Muhammed’s pattern was not all that dissimilar. While a few of his wives appeared to be rough equals (and his first wife was both older and wealthier than he was), most of those he had sex with were terribly vulnerable–a child, captives–including those whose husbands and families he had just slaughtered–and sex slaves.
Remember, healthy people are not sexually drawn to children *at all*, let alone exclusively.
Rarely says
Carl Goldberg
Interesting hair splitting. So your point is this may have been his only child-sex object? The definition you supply makes pedophilia very subjective — it might be his “preferred” sex choice though he did it rarely? Convenient if he was in psychotherapy but of no use otherwise. A person’s “preferred” sex object might be girls under age 7 but if he never touches one he would still be a pedophile to his analyst? Your definition is of no use otherwise. ONE act means that he committed pedophilia thereby greatly harming a young girl (probably) and committing a serious crime. That such a person is not, according to the psychologists’ definition strictly speaking a pedophile is of no interest to the law OR any sane moral code.
Many people have different sexual fantasies that, if acted upon, would be illegal BUT if the person never acted on those fantasies they are irrelevant to all but his therapist.
Well I never met a psychologist who didn’t know more psychology than there is. The definition you supplied shows a collective guilt among them.
Stacy Girl says
Are you assuming that Mohamed had sex only with his wives? Was there an age cutoff for women taken as spoils of war? Every facet of his life is that if a sex crazed violent monster. Iranians are thighing infants today because of Islam.
gravenimage says
He also raped women in Jihad and with his numerous sex slaves.
Georg says
So great leftists and Muslims readily demonstrate they are infinitely more angry about someone alluding to Muhammad’s rape and enslaving than they are concerning the acts themselves. No principles to be seen. Pure agenda. And a bankrupt foundation for constructing anything resembling a just and sane society.
gravenimage says
Grimly true.
And good to see you posting, Georg.
Georg says
Always good reading yours as well.
gravenimage says
🙂
Michael Copeland says
Gerald Batten is principled and courageous. It is refreshing to hear a party leader not cowed by “political correctness”, the cultural Marxist silencing device.
Michael Copeland says
Also, rather rare among politicians, he has informed himself about Islam, and the life of Mohammed.
Linda says
Good for Mr. Batten!
Tom says
“I want the truth” response “You can’t handle the truth” and so it is with the appeasers of Islam, they just cannot handle the truth that the prophet of Islam was a pedophile who married a nine year old child.
As Mohammad is supposed to be the perfect example of a follower of Islam, it follows that many who are devout followers will try to emulate him.
As we Christians, Buddhists, Sikhs, Hindu’s and most other religious peoples do not adhere to the tenents of Islam, it follows that only Muslims will follow such an example. So therefore what what was said in the Batten speech is factual and accurate.
So lefties, get over it.
eduardo odraude says
I’ve seen some very concrete examples of part of what motivates those who insist Islam is a religion of peace.
Once I was in a group discussion with about 40 people, and Islam came up, and I and one other explained that Islam was a totalitarian system — I recall there was one young woman who simply could not take hearing the details, wanted to deny them, started crying, and then walked out of the meeting.
More recently I was in a smaller group, and again the subject of Islam came up. At one point I started to recount how the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad explains that, in search of a treasure, Muhammad had a man tortured by lighting a fire on his chest, then had the man beheaded. Before I could finish recounting that, a woman cut me off, saying, “Please, please, I have a very strong imagination and I will have nightmares.” This was another woman who tried to argue that Islam was a distinct totalitarian threat. She thought it was comparable to what she faced as a non-citizen in the US, where she feared to speak out because an arbitrary immigration enforcer might remove her from the country. To me, the comparison was ridiculous. To say that the totalitarian threat of Islam is equivalent to the fact that in the US non-citizens do not have as many rights as citizens, just seems idiotic to me.
But the point is, there are just lots of delicate people out there who simply can’t bear to acknowledge the reality. They seem to think that denial is a strategy. They ask, what good does it do to point out all these facts about Islam, what is your plan, go to war with 1.5 billion Muslims? In other words, their unstated idea is, “Since there is no easy or obvious solution to the horrifying situation we are in, it’s better not to talk about it or alert people to the horrifying situation we are in.” FEAR, LEADING TO DENIAL.
eduardo odraude says
Oops.
“This was another woman who tried to argue that Islam was a distinct totalitarian threat.”
in the 2:34 pm comment should have been
“This was another woman who tried to argue that Islam was NOT a distinct totalitarian threat.
Norger says
I think that part of the problem is that we in the West have been conditioned that it is simply “wrong” to question another person’s “religious” beliefs. We also tend to project our own Judeo-Christian assumptions about what a major religion “must be” onto Islam. There is also enough obfuscation by Muslims about what the articles of faith actually say that perfectly accurate descriptions of Islamic theology, or even quotes from Islamic scripture, are summarily dismissed as “cherry picking,” “taken out of context” or “Islamophobic.” Many people who are otherwise intelligent just willfully ignore the ugly truth about Islam, even when it is staring them in the face.
eduardo odraude says
All true, Norger.
Stacy Girl says
eduardo- my niece wears a pink kitty hat and marches for equality. She is a youth minister at a Christian Church where rainbow sashes and kaffeyas are wound about a cross, and during Ramadan they refer to God as Allah. I tried to explain FGM to her once and recommend a book by Ayan Hirsi Ali. She screamed like a banshee and her parents, one of them my brother, left our home. They wrote me a letter instructing me never to discuss this again in their presence. They despise “Israeli apartheid and police state government.” But the day they love Jesus. ?
eduardo odraude says
Wow, sorry to hear that, Stacy Girl.
gravenimage says
None of this surprises me, Eduardo. I had a woman literally put her hands over her ears so she would not hear me say anything about the violence of Islam.
This is *willful denial*, and is far more dangerous than simple ignorance.
Norger says
Don’t know if you’ve read Catastrophic Failure by Stephen Coughlin, but he describes this in the military context as the abject refusal to see the enemy as he defines himself (i.e. a sincerely devout Muslim following orthodox Islamic theology) as distinct from how we need the enemy to be (“this can’t possibly be true so this jihadi must not be a ‘true’ Muslim”). This “head in the sand” mindset is incredibly dangerous.
gravenimage says
I’ll look for that book, Norger, Thanks.
Ian Davies says
Absolutely, so many people are like that. My sister and cousin are passionate about defending Islam as being a great, noble and peaceful religion, whilst also acknowledge that they know absolutely nothing about it – they know nothing about Mohammad, the Koran or the doctrine of Islam (and they don’t want to find out about it, either, they just want to keep defending it). When I started telling my sister some things about Mohammad and what he did, and some of the things it says in the Koran, she could not handle it, she refused to hear what I was saying or discuss it any further. There are a staggering number of people who want to deny what is clear. I believe it’s because if they acknowledge to anyone, including themselves, that there is a problem with Islam then they will have to start quantifying how BIG that problem is, and it could be a scary problem, and if it’s a big and scary problem but they acknowledge it then they are honour-bound to try and help in addressing the problem…. whereas if they just keep ignoring the problems, and denying they exist, then they can keep polishing their halos in peace, so they think.
Norger says
You are totally dead-on accurate in your description of people who have no substantive knowledge of Islam, and no interest in learning about Islam, particularly the nasty bits (“it’s so mysterious and complex, how can YOU possibly claim to understand it?”) but remain 100% committed to defending Islam, to the point where they literally won’t hear a word against it. One of my co-workers is just like that. Ben Affleck’s tirade against Sam Harris is a textbook example.
eduardo odraude says
I’m shocked that a public official is permitted to say this in the UK. I was under the impression such a person might face legal consequences. Well, I hope I was wrong. And I hope Batten survives. He’s either very brave, or does not realize what he’s gotten himself into.
PATRICIA FRANCES KOENIG says
Finally, a UK government official denounced the pervert war*monger Mohammed. Islam is a war and perverted sex cult.
Michael Copeland says
Just to clarify, Gerald Batten is a party leader (of UKIP) and a Member of the European Parliament (MEP). He is, alas, not a government official.
Axolotl says
Facts are facts. They can’t be inflammatory, Islamophobic, racist or anything other than facts. Mr Craven (appropriate name!) has backed himself into a corner. He cannot claim that these are beliefs, as opposed to facts, because they are in the Koran. While non-muslims may consider the Koran largely fantasy, the two billion people for whom Mr Craven professes to speak insist that the Koran is perfect!
What delicious irony.
Norger says
Indeed. As President John Adams said:
“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
Infidel lives matter says
I read somewhere that Nigel Farage is talking about possibly making a comeback as UKIP leader. I hope he doesn’t. Battten obviously has the courage to say things that Farage would never dream of. With Batten UKIP can perhaps become relevant again. However he can quickly end up in a prison cell like Tommy if he continues to tell the truth in Sharia Britain.
Batten: “This is not immigration this is invasion”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70QXljsFkdk
eduardo odraude says
Great. He should be UKIP leader. Farage seems to have gone PC since becoming a media professional.
gravenimage says
+1
overman says
Farage has become a disgrace.
gravenimage says
Grimly true.
Ian Davies says
We should support Gerard Batten and his party for having the courage to tell the truth.
Michael Copeland says
Michael Craven libels Gerald Batten when he says:
“There was a definite tarring of the Muslim community as a whole as rapists and paedophiles”.
There was not.
Stacy Girl says
So that factual statement by Batten, but not rape gangs, is tarring their community.
Jan Aage Jeppesen says
In the sources there is nothing to suggest that the prophet was a pedophile in the clinical meaning of the word. However, even if it is evident that he had sex with a nine year old girl that does not necessarily make him a pedophile. Only if the majority of his wife’s were prepubescent girls this would be a strong indication that he suffered from the psychiatric disorder called pedophilia. Only one wife, Aisha, was clearly underage.
We must also remember that, if a man has a sexual relationship with a young girl in a culture where such a union is permissible, this doesn’t necessarily mean that the man is a “sexual predator,” or a “pedophile”.
In the Christian culture 12 year old girls, and pregnant 11 year olds, could be married with the blessing of the Church up till modern times.
As Robert Spencer point out in “Did Muhammad Exist” Muhammad’s marriage to a nine year old girl was no embarrassment to the prophet because it was culturally accepted, but his marriage to his daughter-in law “would bring a blush to the cheeks of the most ardent proponent of free love” (Spencer, p. 109).
Rarely says
My favourite definition of “Rationalization” is: Rationalization is giving a socially explanation to something which has no socially acceptable explanation.
That pedophilia may have been common in those days does not make it any less abhorrent. There is lots of Child sex abuse in our society. That doesn’t excuse any of it.
Jan Aage Jeppesen says
You miss the point. The prevalence of pedophilia – the disposition not the act – may be between 3% and 5% in the general population, but most pedophiles do not have sex with children especially if they live in a culture which strongly condemn such acts and punish them harshly.
I assume that the prevalence of the disposition – pedophilia – is a constant in all cultures at all times, because it is mostly genetically founded, but the prevalence of sex with children/child marriage is clearly dependent of whether it is culturally acceptable or not.
Islam is a special case because the cultural norms are divine and in principle cannot be changed by man. However, Muslims are influenced by Western secular norms especially regarding child marriage. That is why they react so strongly when their prophet is accused of child rape or pedophilia – most people do not distinguish between the disposition and the act.
Norger says
You are missing the point. The issue here isn’t the disposition towards pedophilia vs. “the act.” No one is suggesting that all or most Muslim males are pedophiles. The issue is that for those Muslims who are so inclined, certain pedophilic acts (e.g. child marriage) are acceptable in many parts of the Islamic world today, including Pakistan (where many of the rape gang members are from),based on the example of Islam’s prophet. That’s the problem.
gravenimage says
The nasty Jan Aage Jeppesen wrote:
In the sources there is nothing to suggest that the prophet was a pedophile in the clinical meaning of the word.
………………………..
People who are *only* attracted to children are quite rare. But most people who abuse children do not fall into this category.
I was involved with a case where the abused children, an elderly woman, several disabled women, and one woman who was asleep at the time of the attack. What was common here is that all of the victims were vulnerable.
After his first marriage, this was quite common with Muhammed, as well–he targeted a child, captives, and sex slaves.
More:
However, even if it is evident that he had sex with a nine year old girl that does not necessarily make him a pedophile.
………………………..
Yes, it does. Normal, healthy men do not want to rape 9-year-old children.
More:
Only if the majority of his wife’s were prepubescent girls this would be a strong indication that he suffered from the psychiatric disorder called pedophilia. Only one wife, Aisha, was clearly underage.
………………………..
Again, this just proves that he wasn’t drawn *exclusively* to children–not that he didn’t rape a child.
Child rape is rife in the Muslim world–largely on the basis of the foul “Prophet” Muhammed.
Jean says
Jan Aage Jeppesen.
In Medieval Christian Europe, children of the nobility and royalty were not rarely engaged or married at an early age, such as 12 years. (They could even be engaged from birth.) But the children would usually either stay with their parents while growing up or go to live with a nanny in the spouse’s house until they were older, 16 or 17. Only at that age did the young couple begin sleeping together.
The reason for these early marriages was to make political alliances or to secure the possessions of the family (the land). The sexual aspect was not the point – which it manifestly was in Mohammad’s case.
Europeans with less property and no political involvement tended to marry significantly later, often in their twenties.
Hildegard of Bingen, the 12th century abbess, wrote in her book on medicine that it was recommended to wait with sexual intercourse until the woman was above twenty years of age, because child bearing was too hard on a teenage body.
Your moral equivalence is false.
gravenimage says
UK: Leftists enraged as UKIP leader Gerald Batten calls Muhammad “a paedophile who kept sex slaves”
………………………
How *dare* anyone tell the truth about this? Bad dhimmi…
Kudos to Gerard Batten. And so good to see that the brave Tommy Robinson is not forgotten.
Andy says
+1
Ian D says
Tommy is absolutely not forgotten. There were thousands at the event on Saturday. Also please cross fingers and toes/pray as apparantly Tommy’s appeal hearing is tomorrow – Raheem Kassam mentioned that on Saturday..
gravenimage says
+1
D J says
Last year the Pakistan parliament tried to introduce a law on the age of consent.
It was blocked as un-Islamic.
They tar themselves now rather than relying on the past misbehaviour of their prophet.
gravenimage says
Yes.
duh swami says
If you ever see a leftist about to become enraged, leave the area immediately, take cover and stay there until you hear the all clear siren…
Susan B says
So true, how is it that leftest have become so insane? I think the left is losing it because the left is losing. They invested all their energy on a false narrative and now are faced with the truth and it is so painful for them to accept the depth of their brainwashing all the can do is scream empty rhetoric and attack all those that see them for who the are. This is what being a victim of brainwashing does to people. This is why mohammedans are insane as well.
Ian D says
You’re right, Susan – the left is losing. Recent elections in Poland, Austria, Italy, Slovenia and Czech Republic all point in a good direction. Sweden will vote heavily for the Sweden Democrats in September. Le Pen lost in France and Wilders in Holland but they still did well, coming second and third. Alternative for Germany is the official opposition in Germany. Italy are sending back boats. Lots of good things are happening. I would really recommend watching Dr Steve Turley’s channel on YouTube as he does great analysis of how Europe, and indeed the world, is turning away from globalism and the left, and turning towards traditionalism, nationhood and the right.
PRCS says
1. Have “news” outlets or politicians ever referred to “The Prophet Moses” or “The Prophet Jesus”?
2. Note that Tell Mama and Hope Not Hate did not say Batten is wrong. Because he isn’t and they know it.
No Muzzies Here says
Truth gets you jail time in the UK.
Jacqui says
Maybe not, but Muslims do so…..on a very regular basis in their prayers & recitations of the Koran & the Hadiths.
When will ‘Tell Mama’ complain about the Muslim attitude to Jews & Christians. That is also race/ religious hatred. But, on this point, they are silent.
Lanfranc says
Islamophiles suffer from alethephobia – irrational fear of the truth. When Farage called those of us in UKIP who supported Anne Marie Waters “Nazis” he forfeited the not inconsiderable respect I once held him in. I rejoined UKIP when Batten took over, but would defect to For Britain if Farage returned. He is another alethephobic as far as islam is concerned.
Ian D says
Well said!! I agree totally that Batten is great for UKIP, and that if Farage returned it would be best to join For Britain. Anne Marie Waters is a great and fine lady and it was disgraceful for Farage to slur her as a “Nazi”.
jayell says
“(Gerard Baten’s) comments were called “deeply disturbing” and “worrying” by an anti-Islamophobia group.”
You bet that they’re ‘deeply disturbing’ and ‘worrying’ to anyone with an ounce of moral integrity, because they’re backed up by the historical facts recorded in the Qur’an and other authoritative writings! And no doubt this ‘anti-islamophobia’ group will be ‘disturbed’ and ‘worried’ as well, because by rights it should blow them right out of the water and reveal their total lack of moral integrity if they continue peddling their stupid, corrupt fiction.
overman says
Even Paul Joseph Watson has joined UKIP.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw-3aBw-nLw
FYI says
But..islamic teachings confirm it!
Sahih muslim 3309,bukhari 58:236
muhammed was also ..
a mass -murderer ABU DAWUD 4390
a self-confessed Terrorist Bukhari 4:52:220
a self-confessed False prophet Al Tabari 6:111
a polygamist buhhari 1:5:268
a seller of slaves Sahih Muslim 3901
that’s muhammed;the “perfect” man…
…according to official islamic teachings.
Indiana Tom says
Mr Batten added: “The founder of their cult was himself a paedophile who kept sex slaves. And he is held up to be a perfect model for them to follow for all time.
Okay.
He claimed one attendee of the rally shouted: “We should hang them all”.
Not enough rope, trees, and horses.
“It was deeply inflammatory. There was a definite tarring of the Muslim community as a whole as rapists and paedophiles,” Only for the radical Muslims, the moderates just hold down the victims. and the progressives just watch and applaud.
If the shoe fits….
Pong says
Was Mohammed a paedophile? According to our norms he was, but those norms are relatively new. Not long time ago 14 was a legal age of marriage in some states. Historically marriage contracts were made with children’s parents (especially among nobility) and consummation of marriage was around 12-13. Rebecca was married to Isaak at 13. Juliette was 13.
I don’t think think Mohammed can be called a paedophile, but I like doing it as it pisses off moslems.
gravenimage says
He started raping Aisha when she was just nine–she was a prepubescent child. There was no period when this was normal.
Stacy Girl says
Indeed. Aisha’s parents handed her over to The Prophet due to his stature.
Norger says
And he married her (or got “engaged”) when she was six. Depraved by any standard.
eduardo odraude says
Top Islamic scholars’ explanations of Qur’an 65:4 show that the verse assumes consummation of marriage with prepubescent girls.
http://quotingislam.blogspot.com/2011/06/islamic-scholars-explanations-of-quran.html
Terry Gain says
Weak. 13 is 1.444 times as old as 9.
Norger says
“It was deeply inflammatory. There was a definite tarring of the Muslim community as a whole as rapists and paedophiles.”
No it wasn’t a tarring of the community as a whole. But it is a FACT that these rape gangs are almost 100% Muslim. And that Muhammed had sex with a 9 year old girl. And that Islam itself is deeply misogynistic, particularly as respects the treatment of uncovered infidel women and girls. But we’re not supposed to talk about any of that.
gravenimage says
Not every Muslim is a rapist or a pedophile–but rape and pedophilia are both sacralized in Islam, and the “Prophet” Muhammed–considered a model for all Muslims–was both.
vlparker says
I thought UKIP was a lost cause after they kicked out Anne Marie Waters for telling the truth about islam. Nice to see another courageous truth teller.
Matthieu Baudin says
“… Mr Batten added: “The founder of their cult was himself a paedophile who kept sex slaves. And he is held up to be a perfect model for them to follow for all time…”
Gerald Batten is shouldering a responsibility that ought to be shared by many thousands – a responsibility to speak up and tell the truth about things of the utmost importance for the public good. Our institutional and community leaders have, by and large, let us all down which has enabled the stature of Gerald Batten and other plain speakers to tower ever higher.
Wakeup says
Do we have our very own Geert Wilders here this is a symptom of something? I think finally the arguments of the left are being seen to be absurd people are begining to lose their fear of muslims. At work I notice there is a reluctance to employ them phase two is to learn about their motivation and agenda read Roberts book.
IanB says
Regarding the Left’s denial of Islamic wickedness it is instructive to read the comments below the Independent article where Leftists tie themselves up in incredulous knots attempting unsuccessfully to deny the truth told by Gerald Batten.
terry says
If the truth hurts, or the shoe fits…When people speak of Jesus and Christians, make so-called art images of them, in very vulgar terms, I ignore them; or when the timing is appropriate, in discussion I refute them, and I always pray for them- forgive them. My faith is not disturbed by what people say, nor is my wrath kindled against them. When people mock me for being a ‘creationist’ and believing that “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth, I just smile and shake my head; I do not seek to murder them for it! These statements made are their facts, their belief; they are events that are recorded in their koran, in their traditions, the hadithes; muslims and islam must learn to accept other people speaking against their faith, and if their faith is sound within their own hearts and minds then they too must learn to ignore, peacefully refute them, and to shake their heads, smile, and walk away! I have learned to agree to disagree! I have learned to let others have their traditions and beliefs, and to cherish and live in mine; so too must muslims. And if those whose faith is in this man persist in attempting to pretend that anyone who disagrees with them, calls out the facts surrounding them, or willingly does not wish to allow them to police their lives, their nations, and their social and cultural traditions with sharia police, anti-freedom laws that make them or their religion above the law, reproof, or criticism into hate laws, is against all muslims is prevaricating; we in the West, in our countries also have rights, and we have the right to disagree with islam, the right to not want to be bullied, raped, pillaged, murdered or forcefully converted to their koran! My right to believe that muhammad, if he even existed, is a false prophet is as much of a right as their belief that he was some perfect man! Living in peace is allowing each of us to have that belief, speak to the facts concerning those beliefs, and being able to freely and unharmed agree to disagree! The rights of muslims does not, cannot, and must not be above the laws of the lands in which they have been graciously invited to live! They are not and shall not be by me viewed as ‘superior people’,regardless of what their koran says, or how much they esteem themselves to be supreme people- they are just people like any other to me….
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
ALL Mohammadans are guilty, guilty of teaching their children and grandchildren that Mohammad was a really great guy. Teaching them that Mohammad is the ultimate exemplar to emulate in all things.
johnnybigtime says
Re Gerard Batten
At last, someone who speaks the truth. The Koran also teaches that its followers should maim, mutilate, murder and rape other people.
It is about time people started stating the truth.
‘Muslim’ is not a race; it is a satanic religion.
patriotliz says
Why would anyone want to be identified w/ a cult founded by a pedophile and sex slaver? Majority of Muslims may not be pedophiles or sex slavers…but if Muhammad was the perfect human example for all Muslims…then Muslims have a huge problem and, it’s not w/ the critics of Islam. Given the fact that Muslims ignore that child marriages and sex slavery occurs today in Islamic culture…it’s time that Muslims either accept the ugly truths about their sick “religion” or abandon Islam all together since there’s no hope of reform because it would require condemning the actions of its Founder.
Giacomo Latta says
His comments were indeed ”deeply disturbing”, dear anti_islamophobia group, but were they true? If they weren’t, then what’s bugging your ass? If they were true, then obviously the comments were more ”deeply disturbing” than you are willing to admit.
Ade Fegan says
what kind of sicko would be offended by a little refreshing honesty ?