Recently I learned, from an article by Manfred Gerstenfeld, something about which I had been unaware: the long record of antisemitism in Iceland, both bizarre and horrific, given that the Icelanders throughout their history had virtually no Jews in their country, and no dealings with Jews outside their country. As so often, Jews need not be present for antisemitism to flourish; they so often can be an abstract object of hatred.
Here is what Gerstenfeld reported, followed by my comments:
Whenever the media mention Iceland in the context of Israel, it is usually to report negative news. One recent development is a petition going around the country not to participate in the Eurovision contest, which will be held next year in Israel. So far this petition has received 11,000 signatories. That is significant in a country with only about 350,000 inhabitants. (Apparently the national broadcaster nevertheless intends to participate in the Eurovision program.)
The petition in Iceland to not participate in the Eurovision contest to be held next year in Israel garnered 11,000 signatures. But that leaves 339,000 people who did not sign, and even after we deduct for those younger than 18 (non-voters and non-petition signers), at least 250,000 adult Icelanders apparently did not wish to boycott Israel. That’s 25 Icelanders not against Israel (or perhaps even for Israel) for every one Icelander who, in signing the petition, could be considered anti-Israel. Not a cause for alarm.
It is difficult to find in Iceland’s history more than one substantial occasion when it played a positive role for Israel or Jews. The Icelandic representative at the UN, Ambassador Thor Thors, was the rapporteur for the 1947 Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP). This committee recommended partitioning the British Mandate into two states, one Jewish and one Arab. In his autobiography, Abba Eban reports that Thors was “magnificent” in introducing the recommendation to the General Assembly where the vote would be taken.
Pro-Israel groups should start reminding present-day Icelanders of Thor Thors’ “magnificent” help at the U.N. in 1947 — and then wonder aloud, more in sorrow than in anger, as to what happened to that previous sympathy, and where today’s “Thor Thors” were to be found. Of course, his current avatars, given the more than seventy years of jihad against Israel, would no longer be promoting a “two-state solution,” but rather, Israeli deterrence as the only way to keep the peace.
In 2015, the city council of Iceland’s capital, Reykjavik, decided to boycott Israeli products. A week later, Reykjavik’s Mayor, Dagur B. Eggertsson, amended the proposal so that the city would be boycotting only those goods produced in the “occupied” areas. Council members said the boycott was a symbolic act designed to support Palestinian statehood and condemn Israel’s alleged policy of apartheid. The Icelandic Foreign Ministry said the city council’s decision was not in line with the country’s policy.
The city council of Reykjavik was responded to forcefully by Yair Lapid, leader of the Israeli Yesh Atid party and a former finance minister, who asked the members of Reykjavik’s city council whether the boycott included Microsoft Office, cellphones, cameras, and Google, all of which contain elements that are produced in Israel. Lapid added that if the answer to all these questions is yes, he wishes them an enjoyable life until their sadly unavoidable heart attack, as pacemakers are also an Israeli invention.
For such a small country, Iceland has caused a great deal of international mischief this century. It made the international press in 2008 in a major way when it suffered a systematic banking breakdown. Bearing in mind the relative size of its economy, its financial collapse was the largest the world had ever seen.
This has nothing to do with antisemitism in Iceland. Why bring it up? It only distracts from the matter at hand.
In 2011, Iceland’s parliament was the first country in Western Europe to recognize a Palestinian state. The foreign minister at the time, Ossur Skarphedinson, was extremely anti-Israel. Iceland’s Birgitta Jonsdottir was the first parliamentarian of any country to visit participants of the failed second Gaza flotilla.
Sadly, all true.
Iceland’s attitude toward Jews, both recently and in the past, can be described as wretched. The latest indignity was a proposal this year to be the first country in Europe to ban circumcision. In addition to politicians, 400 doctors supported the bill.
This is not evidence of antisemitism. The opposition to circumcision, which also affects Muslims, is not necessarily prompted by antisemitism. There are both medical and ethical arguments against circumcision. Many of the doctors who oppose it consider it a human rights issue, because those being circumcised have no say in a matter that affects their bodies. These doctors are not for banning circumcision outright, but for delaying it until the person affected is old enough to make his own, informed decision. Nor are all Jews for circumcision. To quote Dirk van Dijk: “The growing resistance to circumcision stems not only from medical and secular organizations, but comes also from within religious communities themselves. In the US and Israel, more and more Jewish parents are abandoning circumcision in lieu of rituals that do not lead to an infringement of physical integrity.”
Iceland attracted much negative international attention for this. Reinhard Marx, the cardinal of Munich and Chairman of the Commission of the Bishops Conferences of the European Community, denounced the bill as an attack on religious freedom. The bishop of the National Church of Iceland said the ban could criminalize Judaism and Islam in that country and result in the barring of individuals who adhere to those religions.
Again, why should we not believe those doctors who claim to be against circumcision on medical and ethical grounds? Why must we assume they are necessarily antisemitic? Can “religious freedom” be invoked to justify every practice, such as, for example, polygamy for Muslims?
The leading Republican and Democrat on the US House of Representatives Foreign Affairs Committee together urged Iceland not to support the proposed bill. They wrote to the Icelandic ambassador in Washington, saying: “While Jewish and Muslim populations in Iceland may be small, your country’s ban could be exploited by those who stoke xenophobia and anti-Semitism in countries with more diverse populations.” The Conference of European Rabbis announced that it had managed to convince doctors, academics, and heads of organizations of all faiths to call the proposal “anti-Semitic.”
The Conference of European Rabbis may have managed to convince others to call the proposal “antisemitic,” but that does not make it so. There are Jewish doctors who believe the practice of circumcision should be ended. They can be found online. Are they antisemitic?
There are many other examples of anti-Semitic behavior in Iceland’s past. Iceland gave warm refuge to the Estonian Nazi war criminal Evald Mikson. At the end of the 1980s, Nazi hunter Ephraim Zuroff tried to bring Mikson to trial for his involvement in the murder of Jews in Estonia. This led to many Icelandic media attacks against Israel. The country’s government took more than 10 years after Zuroff’s initial appeals to set up a commission to investigate Mikson’s war crimes. Only after his death did the investigators find that he had indeed committed atrocities.
The delay of Icelandic authorities in investigating Mikson, the attacks in the Icelandic media on Nazi hunter Ephraim Zuroff, and on Israel for wanting to put this war criminal on trial — these are intolerable examples of antisemitism. Nothing justifies them.
In 2004, Iceland offered asylum to Bobby Fischer, the extremely anti-Semitic former chess world champion. In 2004 he was arrested in Japan and held for several months for using a passport that had been revoked by the US government. Fischer fought extradition to the US. Eventually, he was granted an Icelandic passport and citizenship by a special act of the Althing, Iceland’s parliament. This allowed him to live in Iceland until his death in 2008. (As an aside, he praised the September 11 attacks.)
Bobby Fischer, lest we forget, had steadily descended into madness in the last few years of his life, as was indicated by, among many other things, his antisemitism (Fischer’s mother was Jewish). He was not offered asylum out of the blue by Iceland; he requested it. Fischer was granted Icelandic citizenship, however, not because of his antisemitic or any other views. The Icelanders remembered that he had brought them worldwide attention in 1972 with the championship chess match that he played against Boris Spassky, and it was that which caused the Althing to grant him his request for citizenship.
Many cases of anti-Semitism in Iceland over the centuries have been described by Vilhjalmur Örn Vilhjálmsson, an expert on the country’s history towards the Jews. One example concerns the deportation in 1938 of an impoverished German Jewish refugee to Denmark. The Icelandic authorities at that time offered to cover all costs for his expulsion to Nazi Germany if Denmark refused him entry. Decades after the war, similar cases became known.
Iceland behaved terribly toward that refugee. But it was not worse than many other countries that refused to accept, and turned back, Jewish refugees, in 1938-39, including the United States and Canada, both of which refused to allow the MS St. Louis, carrying 937 such desperate refugees, to land, forcing it to return to Europe.
Vilhjálmsson also published the fact that several Icelandic members of the Waffen SS fought for Nazi Germany, and others served in concentration camps. He added that after the war various former members of Iceland’s Nazi party quickly “attained high positions in society, including a couple of chiefs of police, a bank director and some doctors.”
A disgrace which the Icelanders need to be reminded of. Who were those members of the Waffen SS who fought for the Nazis or served in the concentration camps? What former members of Iceland’s Nazi party rose after the war to high positions? What were their names and what positions did they attain?
Iceland’s anti-Semitism still continues. Every year during the Lent period before Easter, daily hymns full of hatred for the Jews are read out by distinguished citizens and broadcast on Iceland’s public radio station. These texts were written in the 17th century – many years before the first Jews arrived in the country – by the Christian priest, poet, and anti-Semite Halgrimur Petterson. One hymn, entitled “The Demand for Crucifixion,” reads: “The Jewish leaders all decide that Jesus must be crucified. The Prince of Life their prey must be. The murderer set at liberty.” In 2012, the Simon Wiesenthal Center tried in vain to stop this hateful practice.
Again, the refusal of Icelanders to stop using what are unambiguously antisemitic hymns should be widely publicized. If the practice, for now, cannot be stopped, at least let it be better known.
The evidence for antisemitism in Iceland in Gerstenfeld’s indictment is convincing, but would be even stronger if certain irrelevancies were not included. It is wrong to cite Iceland’s financial meltdown as having anything to do with antisemitism. Similarly, the Althing’s providing Bobby Fischer with a passport and citizenship had nothing to do with his antisemitism; it was payback for his having put Reykjavik on the map in 1972 with his world chess championship match with Boris Spassky.
What should we do with this information on Iceland Gerstenfeld has assembled?
Spread the word. Online. On call-ins to radio shows. In newspaper and magazine articles. In lectures, or in questions to lecturers. Attempt to interest inquiring journalists for such television programs as 60 Minutes, in covering this unknown side of Icelandic life: “Not everything in Iceland is about volcanoes, geysers, chess games, and fish — there is also antisemitism. We came to find out why.”
Perhaps Icelanders can be reminded, too, of the poisoning of Robert Spencer on May 11, 2017, by an Icelander of the predictably left-wing, pro-Muslim, anti-Israel kind, offended by Spencer’s warnings, based on the texts and teachings of Islam, about jihad. No one in Iceland seemed particularly alarmed at this attempt at murder; in a tiny country where everyone is known to the authorities, there was a strange delay in the investigation, and now, more than 15 months later, the police have still done little to nothing about this case.
As part of a four-step program, let Iceland attempt, if not to rid itself of the curse of antisemitism, at least to dilute its potency.
First, make Icelanders aware of the manifestations of antisemitism in their folkways — their many hymns, for example, where Jews are grimly depicted as Christ-killers — that they have so far refused to abandon, despite entreaties by the Simon Wiesenthal Center.
Second, remind Icelanders of the volunteers from their country who joined the Waffen SS or served as guards in the Nazi concentration camps. Remind them, too, of how these people, when they returned to Iceland, were not shunned, but rather, attained high and respectable positions in Icelandic society. Do not hesitate to name and shame.
Third, remind Icelanders that their country gave refuge to an Estonian Nazi murderer, Evard Mikson. The Nazi hunter Ephraim Zuroff had wanted to put Mikson on trial; the Icelandic press attacked not Mikson, but Israel. The Icelanders took more than ten years even to set up a committee to investigate Mikson; by the time they concluded there was sufficient evidence to put him on trial, he had long been dead.
Fourth, remind Icelanders that it was not Jews who kidnapped and enslaved between 400 and 800 Icelanders in what became known as the “Turkish [that is, Muslim] Abductions.” This was in one month, from June 20 to July 19, 1627. In a month-long series of attacks, Muslim raiders from Algeria and Morocco swooped down on Icelandic coastal villages, killing many dozens of the inhabitants, and seizing hundreds of captives to be sold into slavery back in Barbary. Some of those who were enslaved were well treated (if a slave can be said to be “well treated”) while, as Guttormur Hallsson, a captive from eastern Iceland, reported in a letter written in Barbary in 1631, other Icelanders were slaves of “savage, cruel, hardhearted tyrants, who never stop treating them badly, and who force them to labour and toil with scanty clothing and little food, bound in iron fetters, from morning till night.”
The Icelanders ought long ago to have learned a lesson from being on the receiving end of violent Jihad. It was one of the most sensational events in the history of their country. It would be salutary for them to remember it.
Antisemitism may help to explain some — not all — Icelanders’ continuing myopia about Islam. For antisemitism is both a moral and a political failure. The moral failure can be seen in the diseased sympathy for a Nazi war criminal, and for treating Icelandic volunteers returning from service in the Waffen SS as fine fellows. The political failure arises from the fact that antisemitism can blind those who suffer from it to the meaning of Islam. Iceland has focused on the “plight of the Palestinians” — being the first European state to recognize “Palestine” — and displays an evident want of sympathy for Israel as it tries to defend itself from Jihad. Their attention fixed on a false menace, the Icelanders largely ignore a real one. Iceland, which had only seven Muslims in 1971, and 465 in 2013, now has over a thousand. That’s a steep rise, but given the small numbers, the country has not yet, unlike France, Germany, and the United Kingdom, had to endure a demographic deluge. It still has time — just — to wake up.
K Smith says
Iceland’s financial meltdown occurred because they refused to bail out the criminal banksters….unlike the US who gave them a trillion dollars of taxpayer money. Iceland was the only country to actually prosecute the bankster criminals and send them to jail. I applaud their courage and their ethics in the matter. As it turned out, their economy was recovering while the US was still languishing through the Obama depression. I think US taxpayers should take a page from Iceland’s book.
gravenimage says
Do you think we should take a page from Iceland’s book re their shameful antisemitism, as well?
Mac-101 says
How many Icelander Girls are bein murdered and raped by refugees? There was a story about 3 months ago that was it their FIRST. One does NOT have to be an anti-Semitic to be Anti-Bankster. .
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The difference was that the US financial Firms that were bankrupted due to illegal and shady business practices had NONE of their top management go to jail and many got Golden Parachutes and kept hundreds of millions they made over the years. THEY ALL should of got da Martha Steward Treatment.
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As I understand it, K Smith got it right. In Iceland Banksters went to jail for illegal banking practices and Iceland told those countries like England that held Icelander debt to git it off da Banksters and The people of Iceland would NOT pay them back. Everyone predicted that the Icelander economy would collapse. But it does appear to have improved. I only flew through Iceland and got off on a plane change a couple of times. It appeared to be a very nice and clean and friendly country.
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So to sum it up one does NOT have to be an Anti-Semite to be against International Banksters. To say one is Anti-Semitic because you are against Banksters would mean one would have to think that ALL International Banksters and Globalist are Semites, which THEY clearly are NOT, at least the last time I read about one of the #1 Globalist that just past, John D Rockefeller, and I believe he was the III and NOT Jewish!
StellaSaidSo says
+1
The fact that the banking industry is dominated by Jews is largely a result of an accident of history. Both Christianity and Islam forbade usury. Moneylending was one of the few professions available to Jews, and some Jewish families proved phenomenally successful at it.
BTW, it was David Rockefeller, not John D. who died recently, and you’re right, the Rockefellers are not Jewish.
Mac-101 says
Thanks for the correction Stella. Please correct me as much as you will. I am an ole man with Alzheimer’s onset and my head is NOW hurtin tryin to keep all the corrupt disgustin Satanic Scum straight in the Obama, Hillary Deep State shenanigans. So many Globalist scum and so many dots, I just can’t keep up!
StellaSaidSo says
Bless you, Mac, Oldtimer’s or not, you’re a long way ahead of most of the pack when it comes to the matter of deep state / globalist shenanigans! I wish more people were as well-informed as you are. Don’t stop posting, OK!
Mac-101 says
I expect the post will stop shortly. THEY are about to take complete control of the Internet like THEY have bee practicing on the Chinese. Comin Soon to an internet provider in your neighborhood!
StellaSaidSo says
Mac, I suspect that AJ’s frequent warnings of this have more than a little to do with why he has been silenced.
Mac-101 says
Most likely. Plus Info Wars is most likely Controlled Opposition. 75 to85% of it is correct and most likely TRUE and they wrap it ALL up in outrageous lies so ALL the truth in it is dismissed.
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I have been following Info wars for years and banned several times. This has been the longest for over 6 months. I wrote nothing more on it than I do here. Very mild compared to the average poster on Info Wars.
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No place for rational thought?
StellaSaidSo says
Mac, if InfoWars is ‘controlled opposition’, or easily dismissed as ‘outrageous lies’, it makes no sense to de-platform it so comprehensively.
AJ may be waaay OTT sometimes, but he is right more often than not, which is more than can be said for MSM.
InfoWars represents a major threat to the globalists, and especially to the elite pedophiles.
Mac-101 says
The Neo Bolsheviks have no problem in makin Info wars a person non grata so that they can go after the rest of the opposition which THEY appear to be doin so. Their goal is NOT info Wars but ALL alternate information, just like in Red China!
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Has AJ kept up on the Podesta emails CONTENTS? He seems to have drooped that a while back. Since I can not comment on it I stay busy elsewhere.
gravenimage says
Mac, the idea that I as talking about Iceland’s response to their banking crisis when I noted that they are antisemitic is absurd.
Just look at the story above for *actual* examples.
Mac-101 says
No sweat. Since you responded to a post talkiin about the way Iceland handled the Banksters I inferred you took it to mean that he was Anti-Semitic because of that.
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In the past I’ve been banded from many sites which I assume was because of my dislike for the Global Banksters which was automatically used to label one Anti-Semitic. Now these Globalist actions are basically against Israel some criticism appears to be allowed.
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We need to investigate why the Democrats and the Billionaire Dual citizens appear to be so anti-Israeli. Trump has been the most Pro-Israeli President since the foundin of Israel and 85% of American Jews hate him, many vehemently. Makes no sense without goin with my crazy hypothesis.
Wellington says
I hope you at least know that American banks en masse initially did not want to make the loans they did because they knew such loans were bad risks, but once the banks were threatened with civil law suits if they didn’t make the mortgage loans (because such loans were overwhelmingly involved with minorities, especially black Americans), they then complied rather than risk said suits.
Yes,many bankers thereafter got avaricious because they had a sense that should the loans go south (which most did) they would thereafter have the federal government to very possibly bail them out (which, of course, occurred), but to put the blame entirely on American banks is to miss at least half the picture—which apparently you have.
gravenimage says
And Wellington, sadly, it appears we learned nothing from the housing market crash in 2008. This wasn’t that long ago–but now we have been seeing more subprime loans and crazy home equity loans again. Very foolish.
And this is nothing new–when my husband and I first started researching buying a home in 1997 (we bought the following year), we had pressure from several lenders–none of whom we went with–to buy far more house than we either could afford or even desired.
We eventually stayed well within our means as we had planned and were glad that we did–both for ourselves and for the larger society.
Wellington says
Good to know, gravenimage, that you and your husband were doubly correct in your approach, both microcosmically and macrocosmically.
gravenimage says
Thank you, Wellington. 🙂
mortimer says
What a revelation! Who would have thought there could be so much bigotry in Iceland. Israel should invite Icelandic youth to visit Israel so as to change the minds of the Icelanders.
Once convinced that Israel is a beacon of democracy in the gloomy sea of Muslim dictatorships, the Icelanders will spread the news that Israel is a pluralistic society… perhaps MUCH MORE pluralistic than Iceland!
Icelanders, look in the mirror! How pluralistic is Iceland? How xenophobic is Iceland?
WPM says
Iceland the land of snow white people with snowflake values! Ready to join the red green axis and jump into the septic tank with Islam.
Garfield says
Septic tank. That is EXACTLY what Islam is.
Koosemo says
Very well said
LB says
This is not a mystery at all. Iceland is, like most of the West, predominantly LEFT WING. Leftist establishment, as well as leftist social norms among the general population, are rampant. Here’s a fun fact: Iceland is the FIRST and ONLY country in the world to legally enforce GENDER EQUALITY and outlaw the GENDER PAY GAP! Any person with an ounce of brain to research those topics on his own would immediately realize that those two things are a myth perpetuated by the Left and completely debunked on all fronts. Think about it: Iceland’s leftist government enforced a law based on a myth in order to virtue signal — that’s how far left Iceland is!
Now why does it matter that Iceland is left wing? Simple. Like gender equality and gender pay gap, another one of favorite leftist myths is the victim narrative of the poor and oppressed “Palestinians” terrorized by brutal, genocidal Israelis. After all, nothing virtue signals more than standing up for the “oppressed”, while defying the “oppressors” in any way they can. Hence the Israel boycotts. Mystery solved!
Also, as an anecdote, remember that Mr. Spencer was POISONED by an Icelandic leftist who was so brainwashed and deranged that he actually attempted to murder him by posing as a fan. It takes a serious amount of leftist indoctrination to reach that level of ideological possession.
mgoldberg says
Don’t forget the physician who provided less than adequate treatment when he knew who he was treating. And for that… got no suspension, no reprimand, nothing……
How would anyone like to be so treated by a physician and have no recourse.
mgoldberg says
As far as the Jewish Circumcion issue: none of this has ever been forced upon non jews. It is the 3800 yr old belief of the Religion and as it has no history of being forced upon anyone else… the issue is that others are forcing Jews to believe as they do… meaning they are being forced to act contrary to their beliefs and practices. As for the argument that jewish doctors sometimes reject, well, they reject observant jewish religion and once again, are forcing their view upon jews…. the discussion goes on and on.
Here is something copy/pasted from an article by Rabbi Shraga Simmons:
“Regarding the medical issues, Rabbi Yonason Binyomin Goldberger writes in “Sanctity and Science”:
As an operation, circumcision has an extremely small complication rate. A study in the New England Journal of Medicine (1990) reported a complication rate of 0.19 percent when circumcision is performed by a physician. When performed by a trained mohel, the rate falls to 0.13 percent or about 1 in 1000. When a complication occurs, it is usually excessive bleeding, which is easily correctable. No other surgical procedure can boast such figures for complication-free operations.
One reason why there are so few complications involving bleeding may be that the major clotting agents, prothrombin and vitamin K, do not reach peak levels in the blood until the eighth day of life. Prothrombin levels are normal at birth, drop to very low levels in the next few days, and return to normal at the end of the first week. One study showed that by the eighth day, prothrombin levels reach 110 percent of normal. In the words of Dr. Armand J. Quick, author of several works on the control of bleeding, “It hardly seems accidental that the rite of circumcision was postponed until the eighth day by the Mosaic law.”
Furthermore, circumcision has been known to offer virtually complete protection from penile cancer. According to a recent review article in the New England Journal of Medicine, none of the over 1,600 persons studied with this cancer had been circumcised in infancy. In the words of researchers Cochen and McCurdy, the incidence of penile cancer in the U.S. is “essentially zero” among circumcised men.
Also, research at Johns Hopkins University Medical School in Baltimore have shown that circumcised men are six to eight times less likely to become infected with HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. Researchers believe that protection is due to the removal of the foreskin, which contains cells that have HIV receptors which scientists suspect are the primary entry point for the HIV virus. (Reuters, March 25, 2004)
Several studies reported that circumcised boys were between 10-to-39 times less likely to develop urinary tract infections during infancy than uncircumcised boys. In addition, circumcision protects against bacterial, fungal, and parasitic infections and a variety of other conditions related to hygiene. The extremely low rate of cervical cancer in Jewish women (nine-to-22 times less than among non-Jewish women) is thought to be related to the practice of circumcision.
As a result of studies like these, a number of prestigious medical organizations have recognized the benefits of circumcision, and the California Medical Association has endorsed circumcision as an “effective public health measure.”
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All this is of course tangential to the original point: none of this circumcision was ever forced upon non jews but the force upon jews to change has been eternal and this bit by the Icelanders and others is nothing new at all.
TWG says
mgoldberg
Your post is very interesting. The statistics are glaring. But something else sparked my interest….. rather, fascination.
THIS:
“One reason why there are so few complications involving bleeding may be that the major clotting agents, prothrombin and vitamin K, do not reach peak levels in the blood until the eighth day of life. Prothrombin levels are normal at birth, drop to very low levels in the next few days, and return to normal at the end of the first week. One study showed that by the eighth day, prothrombin levels reach 110 percent of normal. In the words of Dr. Armand J. Quick, author of several works on the control of bleeding, “It hardly seems accidental that the rite of circumcision was postponed until the eighth day by the Mosaic law.”
It would appear that they either knew about Prothrombin and Vitamin K levels THIRTY EIGHT HUNDRED YEARS AGO……. or……
This revelation might keep me awake for weeks. Unless someone proves to me the “3800 year old belief of the Religion” didn’t include circumcision way back then……… Because they didn’t have scientific laboratory equipment, testing gear, technology….. to test what those levels were in a human being. I wonder how they knew, 3800 YEARS AGO, that those levels are best for the procedure to take place after 8 days?
FASCINATING! Thank You for posting, mgoldberg.
Elisha says
TWG – The false dichotomy between the Bible and science was started by John William Draper, who wrote “History of the Conflict Between Religion and Science”. Despite the book being ridiculed by modern historians of science, it remains influential due to the ignorance of many people who actually fear the truth:
“For the life of the flesh is in the blood …” – Leviticus 17:11
Tell me, how could Moses possibly have known that 3500 years ago? It appears science is catching up with God. Carbon-14 found in diamonds = thousands, NOT millions/billions of years. Stratified fossils, Cambrian explosion, man made objects found in rock strata, red blood cells, soft tissue, proteins and DNA found in dinosaur fossils/bones and Polonium halos. There are many more examples. Please consider to research this further:
https://creation.com/the-creation-answers-book-index
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. – Hosea 4:6
The LORD is near to all who call upon Him, To all who call upon Him in truth. – Psalm 145:18
God bless.
mgoldberg says
They…. didn’t know. They…. didn’t make the commandment
mgoldberg says
They…. didn’t know.
They…. didn’t make the commandment.
It was made for them…..
StellaSaidSo says
‘…I wonder how they knew…’
Empirical observation over time. They did not need to know the scientific explanation.
Think of the number of casualties which must have preceded apprehension of the optimal interval following birth for the ‘procedure’ to take place…
gravenimage says
True, mgoldberg.
roxy says
Iceland is actually a pretty evil country. The nazis needed an airbase so they could attack North America and planned on invading Iceland for that reason. Fortunately, the Allies found out about this and got there first. Due to Iceland’s strategic location, we maintained a presence there throughout the Cold War. The Icelanders demanded that we not send any black soldiers and personnel to Iceland. Fortunately, we refused their demands, but when black soldiers were in Iceland, the Icelandic authorities, refused to let them off the base.
LR says
roxy,
Interesting little piece of history…Thank goodness the Americans found out. I can understand how people living on their own little Island feeling all safe within their own ‘tribe’ wouldn’t feel comfortable allowing Negroes in. Fear of the ‘outsider’, the unknown one who looks different I suspect…The age old base tribalism…
Wellington says
Informative article by Hugh Fitzgerald.
On the specific matter of male circumcision, there are no negatives to it unless the operation is botched (which can occur with most any beneficial surgery). Perhaps Icelandic doctors who are against male circumcision should consult the Mayo Clinic and Cleveland Clinic sites which list the many benefits of male circumcision, among them being far less likelihood to contact an STD or to develop penile cancer.
Of course, FGM is indeed barbaric and comes with many negatives. Gee, I wonder if the Althing and Icelandic medical association have taken a stand on this “procedure” and, if not, why not?
gravenimage says
Wellington, it does look as though FGM is outlawed in Iceland, although it is a bit hard to tell, given the opaque verbiage in much of this article:
https://blogs.bmj.com/medical-ethics/2018/04/22/should-iceland-ban-circumcision-a-legal-and-ethical-analysis/
Wellington says
Thanks for that link, gravenimage. Reading the article, I could not but conclude that your description of it as “opaque verbiage” is an accurate one.
Regardless, it is necessary to make it crystal clear that the differences between male circumcision and female circumcision are huge. Not to note this is rather like stating that violence is condoned in both the Koran and Old Testament, leaving it at that without indicating that OT violence is descriptive while Koranic violence is prescriptive.
gravenimage says
Absolutely agree, Wellington.
gravenimage says
Peter, that’s what FGM refers to.
gravenimage says
Agreed, Peter.
mgoldberg says
as to their decision making process, I know of an honorable man who was not merely poisoned with a drug in a tavern there, but a doctor gave substandard care due to political bias against the victim- without any criticism of the medical association there let alone suspension of the medical license for causing harm to a patient.
Baucent says
Iceland is an odd country with odd people. They’ve been indoctrinated in the same Scandinavian socialist ideology found in Sweden plus a smaller gene pool raising the likelihood of inbreeding. Nutty Bobby Fischer was among friends there.
StellaSaidSo says
Icelanders are renowned for their prodigious alcohol consumption. Which might explain some of their strange behaviour…
Mike c says
Im a long time Jihad Watch supporter but ive recently come to realise that the Jewish Lobby has also been a very negative influence on many countries especially the US. The fact that CNN personnel is 80 to 90% Jewish really woke me the state of the problem. CNN hates America and CNN is mostly Jewish. I think the conclusion is obvious. Jews also have a history of supporting communism and socialism which some of them created to destroy western society. Yes, some of criticism of Jews has been over the top and crosses the line to antisemitism but i would be more sympathetic if there was at least some admission or a healthy reflection on the negative influence of the foreign jewish lobby on the US and elsewhere.
StellaSaidSo says
‘I think the conclusion is obvious…’
Correlation does not equal causation.
WPM says
There are a lot of leaders of large groups{not in members best interest} that try there damn hard to appease Islamic organizations the Roman Catholic church comes to mind . Does that mean most or all members of the Roman Catholic church members believe Islam should be appease no If most basketball players are black does that mean you have to be black to play profession basketball no. There are a lot of Jewish reporters because as a group they are well educated, just like as a percentage there are a lot of Jewish lawyers. If a reporter is Jewish that does not mean he represents all Jews or believes in only working towards Jewish causes If you believe Jewish reports are pushing for all Jewish cause you are deep into bigotry of the soft kind.
Mac-101 says
The big question is that why does the MSM hate Israel so much and supportin Islam so strongly when they KNOW they are the first on the list to go to “The Trench”? Has G-d blinded his Chosen People? Why do they overwhelmingly support godless socialism/communism over Freedom and Individuality? Did G-d Curse them with TOO much Intelligence that makes em stupid? It’s just plain CRAZY!
gravenimage says
What a load of tripe from “Mike c” about Jews “being created to destroy western society”.
It is also obvious claptrap that “CNN personnel is 80 to 90% Jewish”. Here’s a list of CNN personnel:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_CNN_personnel
The claim that they are 80 to 90% Jewish is clearly absurd.
Yitz says
Marc. C:although statisticly there were jews. Who were c ommunist etc.they were from those who abandoned their religion so do not represent those faithful to true judaism.
Mac-101 says
So true, no one hates G-d so much as one who turns their back on G-d!
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If a group of people can be feed manna from heaven daily and still make a Golden Calf and worship it instead of Our Heavenly Father who is feedin them is unbelievable. Just as many support ALL that is Evil now and say it is because they believe it is Good. This is foretold for the End Times!
gravenimage says
Moreover, the Soviet Union itself was virulently antisemitic.
Mac-101 says
And the crazy thing is that Trotsky was asked by a Bolshevik soldier why he took special delight in torturing Rabbis and filling their synagogue with their Orthodox Jews and burning it down with them in it, when he, himself was a Jew. Trotsky replied, “I am NOT a Jew, I am a Communist” Can anyone hate G-d more than this?
gravenimage says
True, Mac.
Vilhjálmur Örn Vilhjalmsson says
Trotsky was never engaged in torturing Rabbis. Mac-101 is blaming the killing of Jews on Jews themselves and that is plane and cruel anti-Semitism at its most evil level. Here we are actually seing an example of when Muslim haters also hate Jews.
gravenimage says
Trotsky did not specifically target Jews–but he also did nothing to help them. He disavowed the Jews, and did not identify as Jewish himself.
Vilhjálmur Örn Vilhjalmsson says
And he was in his full right to do so! Persecution of Jews was not the main issue for Stalin and Co. and Trotsky was in exile from the Soviet Union from 1929 and thus was a persecuted Jew. History is obviously having a hard time in the US, or is it only on this site?
gravenimage says
Actually, I don’t think that Trotsky ignoring the persecution of Jews in the Soviet Union is to his credit.
How does noting this indicate that Americans are ignorant of history?
KateM says
This is not exactly on topic for this website.
Another way that Iceland is evil is that they boast that they have solved the problem of children being born with Down’s syndrome. That is accurate because the children are aborted before birth.
WPM says
Iceland has the highest abortion rate know in the world It is reported most women do not even try to use birth control falling back on abortion as birth control this from a first world country with good medical care provide for all. They also have a very high rate of prescription drug abuse couple with alcohol abuse has lead to a lot of recreation sex on long winter nights it is also reported in the local news there. So we have a lot of the general population of people of low moral values who want to commit to culture suicide embracing Islam in the red green alliance of death. What could possible go wrong in Iceland if they accept boat loads of Moslem refugees? On top of that they are reported to be a lot of Jew haters running the government there, hard to feel sorry for a civilization that has lost the will to live and is racist to boot.
LR says
Depressing indeed if they have the highest abortion rate in the world…Birth control is readily available folks…USE IT!
gravenimage says
Grimly true, Kate:
“‘What kind of society do you want to live in?’: Inside the country where Down syndrome is disappearing”
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/down-syndrome-iceland/
While Iceland does have a small population, it is notable that only about two children are born with Down Syndrome per year.
Vilhjálmur Örn Vilhjalmsson says
WPW, you are Way Off. The mos recent comparison of the Nordic Countries, Iceland, Norway, Denmark , Sweden and Finland, show that abortion is more common in Denmark and Sweden than it is in Iceland. https://thl.fi/fi/web/thlfi-en/statistics/statistics-by-topic/sexual-and-reproductive-health/abortions/induced-abortions-in-the-nordic-countries.
Countries like Austria, Belgium, Germany, Liechtenstein, France, Germany, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, Netherlands, Switzerland have slightly higher abortion rates than Iceland.
Please stop this hate-fest against Iceland. A country you do not know so much about.
Vilhjálmur Örn Vilhjalmsson says
…. And by the way, the abortion rate in the USA is much higher than in Iceland. What any woman decides to to her body is none of your business.
Garfield says
You know what I notice? Liberals and whiney snowflakes who talk.about diversity and are slaves to a victim mindset, who defend sharia law and late term abortion, who defend criminals and are race baiters…..are miserable. Left sickos, anti American hateful commie/socialists……have unhappy lives: they’re not HAPPY. Ever notice that?
Mac-101 says
Yup, They are G-d and self haters who follow Satan, whether they know it or not. Satan destroys all who come in contact with him!
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Never let the contents of Podeta’s emails be forgotten!
Vilhjálmur Örn Vilhjalmsson says
Icelandic Nazis
Hugh Fitzgerald ask the name of Icelandic Nazis and anti-Semites who held high positions in Iceland after WWII. Here are some of them:
Sigurjón Sigurðsson, member of the Icelandic Nazi Party became the Chief of Police in Reykjavík; Davíð Ólafsson, member of the Icelandic Nazi Party, later to become the director of the National Bank of Iceland. He studied in Germany during the 193ies without completing any degree in economics. He also became a MP for the Icelandic conservatives;
Social Democrat and MP Jónas Guðmundsson published a anti-Semitic journal after WWII and published the Protocols of the Elders of Zion;
Social Democrat and professor Guðbrandur Jonsson visited and praised the Buchenwald-camp in 1936 and met with high ranking Nazis, later he was engaged in the expulsion of Jews from Iceland;
Jóhannes Zoega studied engineering in Germany during WWII and worked for the BMW concern. Became the director of the Natural Thermal water agency in Reykjavík. His son, who is a politician today, has openly and seemingly proudly told the public that his father once dined in the same restaurant as Hitler in Munich;
Birgir Kjaran, a member of the Nazi Party. After the war he was MP of the Icelandic Conservative party; Agnar Koefoed-Hansen attended SS-courses as a Reykjavík Police Director. After the war he was the director of the Icelandic Aviation Agency.
Gunnar Gunnarsson a respected Icelandic author, fraternized with top ranking German Nazis like Alfred Rosenberg, who ran a department int he German Foreign Ministry and was one of the masterminds of Anti-semitic persecution in Nazi Germay. Rosenberg, was also the German head of the Nazi organization Nordische Gesellschaft, which Gunnarsson was a member of. There are still some folks in Iceland who honestly believe that Gunnarsson was destined for the Nobel-price in Literature, and who think Gunnarsson’s visit to Hitler in 1940 was used against him to prevent him from receiving the price.
Anti-Semitism is now mostly practised by left-wing politicians in Iceland when uttering hate against Israel or circumcision. It is a strange phenomenon in a country where hardly any religious Jews have lived. But it has a tradition, and ugly and evil one. Blaming minorities and immigrant is always easy, isn’t it?
Vilhjálmur Örn Vilhjalmsson says
The financial melt-down of Icelandic Banksters
The very short-lived financial problems of Iceland due to Icelandic financial criminals has nothing to do with anti-Semitism. The only anti-Semitic uttering in Iceland in connection with that were uttered by banksters and other people who blamed foreigners, Muslim, Jews and others alike, for the crimes of the Icelandic banksters. The gullibility of some Icelanders and many Europeans who believe that some fat boys in suits from Iceland could give better interest rates than any major bank in the world, has nothing to do with Jews. A former PM in Iceland, Sigmundur David Gunnlaugsson, who like early pirates hid his family fortune in Panama-Papers somewhere in the Caribbean sands, was dethroned due to his dishonest policies and financial double-standards. On several occasions that man has blamed his own fall on a Jewish business-man George Soros, which of course is blatant anti-Semitism, when there is no substance in the accusations against Soros.
Robert Spencer says
To oppose Soros is not anti-Semitism. The idea that opposing Soros is anti-Semitism is a Leftist trope with no basis in reality.
Vilhjálmur Örn Vilhjalmsson says
Dear Robert Spencer, All over Eastern Europe oposition towards Soros is pure anti-Semitism and nothing else. Soros is their new Rothchild-behind-everything illness. Whatever we know about Soros’ past or attitude to Israel, hatred of him reeks of anti-Semitism.
gravenimage says
True, Mr. Spencer.
Vilhjálmur Örn Vilhjalmsson says
Since my work is quoted in this article, I find it necessary to clarify a detail or two about the so called Turkish abductions in Iceland in 1627.
The Pirates of 1627
The pirate ships from North Africa were in fact led by Dutch captain-pirates and even Irish pirates, some of whom had adapted Islam for personal gain. One of the pirates was actually the ancestor of Jacky Kennedy and Humphrey Bogard and other well known Americans.
Secondly, some oft the Icelandic prisoners wrote about their abduction after returning to Iceland, that the worst thugs during the abductions on the Vestman Islands, had been the white European pirates and not Algerians, who mostly had been kind to them. Turks was as the definition for Muslims at the time but also referred to the Ottoman rule around the Mediterranean.
The main objective of abducting people in the North Atlantic was not first an foremost enslavement. They were held for ransom for quite a while. The Icelandic reverend Ólafur Egilsson, who was abducted in 1627 was the following year by the from Algiers to Copenhagen to collect the random fee the pirates claimed for the ca 300 Icelandic slaves’ return back to their native Iceland. Only 37 Icelanders were released for a payment of 16.687 Danish rixdollars, which the time was the price for 4000 cows in Iceland.
Jews in Livorno (Leghorn, Italy) and Amsterdam, some of whome were my ancestors, were in many cases middlemen in these ransom payments. Rev. Ólafur Egilsson also describes his abductors rather kindly in his Travel account (Reisubók) which was actually the title of the work. However he describes Englishmen and other foreigners who travelled with him on the ship which brought him to Livorno as villains who gave him the evil eye while the Jews on the ship showed him kindness and gave him bread and food.
The mentioned anti-Semitic Passion-psalms by Icelandic reverend and poet Hallgrimur Petursson (not Petterson), was by a man who married one of the women who returned back to Iceland after being enslaved for few years in Algiers. The anti-Semtism of the psalms were the the “norm” of those days and his wife’s experience with Islam had no influence on the anti-Semitic contents of the Psalms.
The abduction of Icelanders in 1627 by a team of international criminals had very little to do with Islam and contemporary terrorism, to be quite honest.
Robert Spencer says
Thanks for clarifying, but your last comment shows on;y your ignorance of Islam. Hostage-taking was and remains and integral aspect of jihadist behavior. The fact that there were non-Muslim pirates doesn’t change the other facts.
Vilhjálmur Örn Vilhjalmsson says
Surely no, I am not an expert on Islam, but I know so much that other people than Muslims have also held hostages at ransom. Even the Vikings. Most of the Europeans in the service of Muslim lords in Algiers had converted to Islam like I wrote. Their lust for gain and fortune was more important to them than Jihad or enslaving Christians. In the 17th Century, this was all about money. The slave trade of the Ottomans had bases in e.g. Italy and the Christian Italians looked the other way, while they were making money on it too. Slaves were also sold to Italians and in France, and people, Christians as well as some Muslim were abducted from European Countries to be sold as saves in Italy. Women from Ireland were quite early trafficking themselves in Rome. Money was the prime issue as usual when people were the commodity. Human rights and womens’ libs didn’t count in those days, and human lives often had a very low price. Making analogies between the 17th century Europe and the modern day scenario is pure nonsense. This of course does not make me a blue-eyed believer in the intents of some Muslim groups of today.
gravenimage says
Being sold into Islamic slavery is *not* “kind”.
And the texts and tenets and model of the warlord “Prophet” of Islam are considered unchanging.
Claiming that invasion, rape, kidnapping, piracy, enslavement, and mass slaughter today have nothing in common with the same things four hundred years ago is claptrap.
Vilhjálmur Örn Vilhjalmsson says
You do not get it, “gravenimage”. It was not “Islamic” slavary, when the pirates were also Dutch and actually ancestors to the Rockefellers, (who are not Jews, like you often read on hate pages in the US). What reverend Ólafur Egilsson felt about his abductors in the 17th century, you will never be a honest judge of. He used the word “kind”, and was comparing Muslims to Europeans he met.
gravenimage says
Vilhjálmur Örn Vilhjalmsson, Dutch pirates were not able to sell European victims into slavery in the Netherlands–they sold them to Muslims.
And I made no claim that the Rockefellers were Jewish. They were, in fact, Protestant.
As for the supposed kindness of Muslim slavers, Ólafur Egilsson’s wife spent ten years in slavery, and his sons never returned.
And while Jan Janszoon (Murat Reis) was indeed born Dutch, he converted to Islam, and had a crew of Muslims from Morocco and Algeria.
And this is known in Iceland as Tyrkjaránið – the ‘Turkish Raid’. It was not called the “Dutch Raid”.
The claim that this had nothing to do with Islam is quite mistaken.
Vilhjálmur Örn Vilhjalmsson says
I never wrote that the Dutch among the pirates were selling slaves in the Netherlands, and clearly stated that the Dutch pirates were very willingly in the service of Muslim lords. But they were not engaged in Jihad. The Icelanders used “Turk” as synonym for all Muslims. At the time they were abducted, the Icelanders had no idea that the leader of the pirates was Dutch, but some of them described the Europeans among the bandits after they had been released. Those descriptions tell us that the Europeans were the most evil and blood-thirsty among the pirates – according to the Icelanders.
As an Icelandic citizen, archaeologist and a historian, I know the history of Tyrkjarán very well, and have written about details of it. Let us not forget that some of the Europeans abducted by Muslim pirates in the “Barbary” (including those of Dutch origin) were sold as slaves in Catholic Italy, e.g. in Livorno, whereto reverend Egilsson was released to get the ransom for the Icelanders, there was a major station for slavers and a warehouse full of slaves, black and white.
Nobody had the slightest idea at that time what Jiihad was, and the objective of the pirates was not Jiihad. The Dutch collaborated with Muslims in Africa in the Sub-Saharan slave trade from 1500 onwards, but the objective there wasn’t Jiihad either.
gravenimage says
Vilhjálmur Örn Vilhjalmsson wrote:
I never wrote that the Dutch among the pirates were selling slaves in the Netherlands, and clearly stated that the Dutch pirates were very willingly in the service of Muslim lords. But they were not engaged in Jihad.
…………………………..
Actually, the abduction of Infidels–either for ransom or slaves–has been a key part of Jihad since the days of the “Prophet” Muhammed himself. There are references to this in the Qur’an, the Hadith, and the Sira. There is, in fact, an entire Sura of the Qur’an titled “Al Anfal” (“Booty”)–much of which involved not just loot, but captives.
More:
The Icelanders used “Turk” as synonym for all Muslims.
…………………………..
Of course–this was true for most of Europe. But the Mahgreb–from whence the Barbary Pirates operated–was indeed part of the Ottoman Empire. That they were mainly Arabs and Berbers with likely a few Turks, Europeans, and sub-Saharan Africans makes little difference.
And why is this? Because the creed of Islam *does not change with ethnicity*.
More:
At the time they were abducted, the Icelanders had no idea that the leader of the pirates was Dutch, but some of them described the Europeans among the bandits after they had been released. Those descriptions tell us that the Europeans were the most evil and blood-thirsty among the pirates – according to the Icelanders.
…………………………..
The only thing that distinguished the Europeans was that most of them were apt to be recent converts to Islam.
New converts everywhere are more inclined to take their new faith *very* seriously–new Jews tend to take keeping Kosher and observing the Sabbath very seriously, new Christians tend to take ministering and preaching and Bible reading very seriously, and new Muslims tend to not only take keeping Halal and wearing the Headscarf seriously, but also horrors such as enslaving and abusing Infidels.
More:
As an Icelandic citizen, archaeologist and a historian, I know the history of Tyrkjarán very well, and have written about details of it.
…………………………..
Then you must know that what I say is accurate.
As for the supposed ignorance of Americans, I myself have degrees in History and History of Art, and both Robert Spencer and Hugh Fitzgerald are very knowledgeable about history.
More:
Let us not forget that some of the Europeans abducted by Muslim pirates in the “Barbary” (including those of Dutch origin) were sold as slaves in Catholic Italy, e.g. in Livorno, whereto reverend Egilsson was released to get the ransom for the Icelanders, there was a major station for slavers and a warehouse full of slaves, black and white.
…………………………..
This is true–and it was a shameful period of history there. But Christian Europeans were *not* engaged in raiding Christian Europe–as with this raid on Iceland–and Christians were not supposed to be sold as slaves. Those involved in selling Reverend Eggilsson and his fellow captives were breaking the law, as slavers are wont to do.
More:
Nobody had the slightest idea at that time what Jiihad was, and the objective of the pirates was not Jiihad.
…………………………..
Well, this is just utterly mistaken. Europe had suffered Jihad invasion, conquest, and raids for at over eight centuries by the time of the Tyrkjarán. At that time, Spain had only been free of Muslim conquest for a little over a century and a quarter, the first siege of Vienna had been a century previously, and the decisive Battle of Lepanto had taken place less than fifty years earlier.
The idea that Europeans had then forgotten this is absurd. They may not have used the term Jihad, but almost every European knew what this was.
More:
The Dutch collaborated with Muslims in Africa in the Sub-Saharan slave trade from 1500 onwards, but the objective there wasn’t Jiihad either.
…………………………..
Infidels do not, of course, wage Jihad in the name of Islam as you imply.
And yes–there have always been dhimmis who, out of fear or hope of ugly gain–as here–have collaborated with Muslims. This is sickening; but it in no way somehow makes Islamic savagery any better.
Stephen Berger says
Every Sunday Icelanders worship a west-bank-settler-Jew Jesus never met a “palestinian” and never heard a single word of Arabic. Every Sunday Icelanders fondle a book which clearly states that that Jew was murdered by Romans – not Jews. Will they now hate Italians? The Vatican? … as much as they hate the Jews.
Vilhjálmur Örn Vilhjalmsson says
The situation of Christianity in Iceland is so and so. The church is at a record low in popularity and thousands have left it. Atheism is the new religion in Europe now. Most young atheist hate all things religious with one crazy exception as it seems: Islam. That’s probably mainly because young atheist see so much hatred and generalization about Muslims – Some Icelander have left the State-Church in demonstration against sexual offences and the Lutheran church’s disability in handling that problem; The Latest one being the rape of a ten year old girl by a twenty year old man, who committed the rapes when he was 20 as a student at the theological department at the University of Iceland. He later became the minister of the Reykjavík Cathedral. Their Tanack, better known as the New Testament to the Christians, blames the death of Jesus on the Jews in a Greek fashion, as far as I know. The Romans are only law enforcement in that holy book. Of course Christianity is one of the reasons for anti-Semitism in a country like Iceland, where so few Jew have lived, and where there has never been a proper synagogue. But not the only one. Hatred towards Catholicism (the Roman Church) has also been a problem in Iceland. But Icelander, being a rather peaceful nation, have never created mobs like you see in countries with larger populations and greater hate, except when they faced the downfall of the economy in 2008. It seems to me, that Good old Mammon is the main god of Iceland, like in so many other countries today. Hate is a problem, don´t you agree Mr. Berger?
gravenimage says
I think it depends on what is hated, and why, and what form that antipathy takes. If one merely peacefully abhors an oppressive and violent creed–Fascism, say, or Islam–that in itself is not necessarily a problem.