Justin Trudeau has been noticeably unconcerned about Islam. He’s been criticised for his failure to recognize the genocide, by Muslims, of Christians in the Middle East. He was eager to hand over to Omar Khadr, the Muslim who killed one American soldier, Christopher Speer, and blinded another, Layne Morris, the quite unnecessary sum of eight million dollars, for having spent ten years imprisoned at Guantanamo (some might well think that a short sentence for a murderer). Indeed, Trudeau handed over the money with such unseemly haste that the families of Speer and Morris, who had won civil judgments against Khadr in Utah, had no time to try to block the payment. Although he talks a lot about human rights, Trudeau has been noticeably silent about human rights in Saudi Arabia, one of the most repressive regimes in the world, possibly because he doesn’t want to do anything to endanger a multi-billion dollar arms deal with Saudi Arabia.
So it has been fascinating to see the Saudi reaction to just one tweet by Chrystia Freeland, Canada’s Foreign Minister, after the Saudi government jailed several women’s rights activists, including the sister of Raif Badawi, a human rights activist now in a Saudi prison. Here was the tweet:
“Very alarmed to learn that Samar Badawi, Raif Badawi’s sister, has been imprisoned in Saudi Arabia. Canada stands together with the Badawi family in this difficult time, and we continue to strongly call for the release of both Raif and Samar Badawi.”
The Saudi government erupted in fury. On August 5, the Saudi Ministry of Foreign Affairs announced it would expel the Canadian Ambassador, recalled its own ambassador in Ottawa, and declared it would freeze all new trade and investments because of Canada’s “interference in the Kingdom’s domestic affairs.” A few days later, Saudi Arabia announced the suspension of state airline flights to Canada and the withdrawal from Canadian universities of all Saudi students, some 16,000 in all. Hundreds of millions of dollars that Canadian colleges and universities were expecting are now not going to arrive. Saudi patients in Canada were told to seek treatment elsewhere. This was all the result of a single tweet.
Many questions remain. If the Saudis are going to freeze “all new trade and investments,” does that include the 13 billion dollar contract for Canadian arms sales to the Saudis? What would Canada have to do to win back Saudi favor? It is inconceivable that the Saudis will back down — these plutocrats, with their sneers of cold command, are used to getting their own way and cannot allow themselves to be seen to bend, and it is just as inconceivable that the Canadians will apologize for what was a single mild tweet, for they have placed defending human rights at the center of their foreign policy. Even Justin Trudeau is backing his Foreign Minister.
What was going on? It has been observed that Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, who has been promoting himself all over the West as a “brave new reformer,” is Janus-faced. For while he helped push some changes for women — such as allowing them to drive — he does not like them to presume to take the initiative, or to attempt to pressure the government to “reform” any faster than it, or he, likes. He is the Crown Prince, after all, in a family-named and family-owned country, where human rights hardly exist, and the Al-Saud are masters of all they survey.
Back in April Crown Prince Mohammed made news with a statement that was described as “pro-Israel,” for stating that the Jews had a right to a homeland. His father King Salman “reaffirmed the kingdom’s steadfast position towards the Palestinian issue and the legitimate rights of the Palestinian people to an independent state with Jerusalem as its capital,” the official Saudi Press Agency said. Among his envious rivals for power — all those half-brothers and cousins — he was said to be, as a result of his surprising comments on the Jewish state, too accommodating to the Western Unbelievers. He needed to do so something to prove he was tough. Internally, having granted women the right to drive, he may have felt he could not allow a dozen women’s rights activists to push, on their own, for further changes in the rights accorded to Saudi women. If there was to be change in the status of Saudi women, it would have have to be his change, for which he would receive the credit, and not a reaction to pressure from below. He is keenly aware of his critics, those who think that he has already done quite enough for now for women, who deplored his remarks in April about Israel, and who see him as a media-hogging prima donna, far too eager to be well-thought of in the West.
What better way to reassert his credentials as a tough guy and opponent of the West than to take the opportunity provided by the Canadian Foreign Minister’s tweet to stand up to the West, in a display of fury intended to placate his critics at home? Then there followed in rapid succession the expulsion of the Canadian ambassador in Riyadh and the withdrawal of the Saudi ambassador in Ottawa, the ending of all Saudi flights to Canada, the calling back of all Saudi students enrolled in Canadian schools, and — most devastating –the freezing of all “new” Saudi trade and investment deals with Canada, which may include (it’s still unclear) a 13-billion-dollar arms contract that has been signed.
But having shown his mettle in how forcefully he’s dealt the Canadians, Crown Prince Muhammad now has gotten himself into quite a mess. For what’s to come is still unsure. It seems scarcely conceivable that the Canadian government, so proud of its moral code, would take back its criticism of the Saudis for jailing activists, given how much it prides itself on its attention to human rights. But unless the Crown Prince manages to obtain something by way of an apology, he cannot possibly back down.
What might he fabricate, in order to construe it as an apology, not from the Canadian government, but better still, from the “plain people of Canada”? He could forget about trying to extract a statement from the Canadian government, and instead announce that the Saudis have received huge numbers — quantity unspecified — of messages from Canadians who were “embarrassed by, and apologetic for, their own government’s presuming to meddle in the affairs of a friendly country,” and that they, the Saudis, regarded that as “a more meaningful and thoughtful message than the ill-considered tweet of a single person who did not understand the Saudi situation, but decided to preach to us about rights, though we never comment on Canada’s internal affairs, and because of her office, was given undue attention. We declare this matter closed.” Something like that might do the trick, save the Saudi students from trying to enroll at this late date in non-Canadian schools, keep those Saudi planes flying into Toronto, reassure the Canadians about that 13 billion dollar arms contract which both Canada and Saudi Arabia have a vested interest in preserving, and allow Crown Prince Muhammad to declare a victory.
Andy says
Is diversity, really a strength? Like Trudeau has stated time and time again.
Watch Sargon of Akad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6UP24j_4JM
Andy says
If you deny to anyone else the right to say what you think is wrong, it will not be long before you will lose the right to say what you think is right. Defense of the freedom of others is self-defense.
Voltaire stated this fact as a genius can: “I wholly disagree with what you say and will contend to the death for your right to say it.”
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/06/01/defend-say/
Andy says
Maxime Bernier is right about diversity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFL7gteW-ls
Andy says
BAN ISLAM, PROBLEM SOLVED!
Andy says
For Canadians
E-1787
Petition to Justin Trudeau
https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Sign/e-1787
Andy says
IF YOU’RE IN TORONTO YOU HAVE TO SEE THIS!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Arg9InjJQc
bob kelly says
justin and his staff are not doing anything cause they don t have clue on what to do
Andy says
Toronto protect yourself from COCKROACHES!!
Mammoliti responds to leftist hypocrites
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGkiL6rlhDA
Andy says
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvyfN9VGT50
jack reynolds says
As long as everyone is distracted by this phony fight, and they forget the 2 young girls murdered in Toronto on July 22nd 2018, Justin will continue with this stupid game.
Sobieski says
Can the US please copy and paste that tweet so Saudi Arabia will stop sending us their money and students?
Thank you.
gravenimage says
+1
SB says
Trudeau has the lefty disease which does not require truth, fact, rational, and common sense.
Older Canadian says
Well said
mortimer says
Agree. Jihadi Justin is irrational… he has tried to have it both ways by supporting FEMINISM, GAY RIGHTS, SIKH INDEPENDENCE and ISLAM all at the same time.
When he lectured SAUDI ARABIA about its discriminatory SHARIA LAW ENFORCEMENT, he came SLAMMING into the wall of REALITY that he had not imagined was there.
The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is FOUNDED on strict enforcement of SHARIA LAW and would collapse if they changed that.
JIHADI JUSTIN just got hit in the face with a cricket bat by the oldest JIHAD COMPANY IN ISLAM… the ARABIANS.
What? Did he think this MULTI-CULTI-GAY DELUSION of his would go on forever?
Those who voted for this incompetent nincompoop have done MUCH HARM to Canada. They put a bipolar maniac at the steering wheel.
Terry Gain says
“Justin Trudeau has been noticeably unconcerned about Islam. He’s been criticised for his failure to recognize the genocide, by Muslims, of Christians in the Middle East.”
………
Unconcerned? With the greatest respect Hugh Fitzgerald that’s a silly way to start an article. As you well know, Trudeau is as much of an Islamophile as Obama. Now that I have that off my chest I will read the rest of your article. I trust it got better and was up to your usual standards.
Terry Gain says
The rest of the article is fine except that the author kept spelling Clown Prince as Crown Prince.
Andy says
Should have done spell check I guess eh, Terry?
Andy says
I have made lots of medskates on JW and never use spell check, I write it and send it warts and all.
gravenimage says
🙂
Andy says
It’s good we can smile and have a laugh in this world we live in eh, gravenimage?
By the way, Does everyone remember where you were when you heard the news of the King of Rock ‘N” Roll passing?
Wonderful Artist, Wonderful Human Being, Always Missed.
R.I.P.
In Loving Memory of Elvis Presley 16 august 2018
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Th3CEJhgL8
gravenimage says
Andy, you are right that this is the anniversary of Elvis’s passing. A great singer. I wish he had not died so young.
The Muslim world never could have produced an Elvis.
Andy says
You can say that again, GI.
Andy says
Elvis Presley A Patriot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM8dzK3csE0
gravenimage says
Thanks for that link, Andy.
Andy says
My pleasure, graveimage for the link.
Sad to hear the news yesterday as well of the ‘Queen of Soul’ passing, .Aretha Franklin.
RIP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63eiS5Slm-E
gravenimage says
Another great singer.
Don McKellar says
They can’t leave Canada fast enough! Goodbye! Every single last one of them can GO and take their death-cult — which is absolutely the opposite of everything Canada is about — with them.
However, I doubt that any of the Saudi-funded mosques will be shut down or the ones due for construction in the colonization for Islam effort will be canceled. Don’t hold your breath.
Trudeau will learn nothing from this. Zero. He is a willfully ignorant leftist empty suit. Instead, he’ll continue to drink the Islamophobia Kool-Aid that leaves all leftists drunk with righteous indignation for the “repressed” and “misunderstood” moslems.
Grizzly says
+1
Raja says
Don, Welcome back.
Spot on.
mortimer says
Don, “just drink the Liberal kool-aid”.
Let go and cross over to globalist compliance.
Comply. Surrender to Sharia law.
Only problem is that JIHADI JUSTIN just CRITICIZED ISLAM … he is now an ISLAMOPHOBE who is a blasphemer and so Justin is now recognized by the Saudis as an official ENEMY OF ISLAM.
Carol the 1st says
That’s so un-Canadian! Let’s have another petition calling for his resignation!
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
I am dismayed by how many Saudi born high level medical practitioners are in our medical system. Do they really return back to Saudi Arabia to practice?
Renate says
Yes. They are trained here and work here for a while. Then, they return to their homeland to practise because they are needed there.
Also, btw, when Saudi Arabia needed phone lines, Bell Canada went over and installed phone lines for them years ago.
Boy! It would be so much better if everyone just tried to get along. The amount of good we could all do in the world would be staggering.
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
Why the hell not train our own people to be doctors – we have a shortage of doctors. Oh that’s right, the Saudis pay top dollar. That’s the real reason people deal with them. Your comment makes it sound like it’s some kind of mutually benevolent international bond. Saudi Arabia is the number one supporter of international jihad!
Dealing with Mohammadans is like dealing with the devil – eventually you will get burned. I always remember that these people were taught while growing up and believe to their core that Mohammad is the best human being that ever lived, and that he is the ultimate example to emulate. That make every last one of them fully capable, given the right circumstances, to engage in unthinkably vile, violent and depraved behaviour.
I hope this rift between Saudi Arabia and Canada never resolves. I hope the multi-billion dollar deal to sell the Saudis armoured vehicles falls through. We should NEVER “get along” with the devil!
Renate says
The Liberals are averse to training our own people. They can import people and that’s good enough in their minds.
It’s not only the Saudis we shouldn’t deal with. It’s the Iranians, the Pakistanis (who harboured Osama bin Laden), and any other Muslims countries that promote Sharia law. But, as you say, it is the money the Liberals are after.
The Liberals have always and will always take the Canadian people for a ride.
gravenimage says
Renate wrote:
Boy! It would be so much better if everyone just tried to get along. The amount of good we could all do in the world would be staggering.
…………………
All we have to do is ignore Muslims raping and murdering us. Bad, bad dhimmis…
Of course, none of this is the fault of the Jihadists–just of the civilized West for not keeping quiet enough.
Grizzly says
Good article! I knew that there had to be more to the Saudi’s reaction! It was just over-kill. But they also see Canada as weak & Trudeau as even weaker, what better way to jam a wedge into Canada & exert at least a little of it’s 7th century barbarism into the West.
Maybe Donald Trump retweet that Canadian tweet!!!
I have no problem having no ties to Saudi Arabia.
gravenimage says
I hope President Trump does just that.
jewdog says
I must admit to a great degree of schadenfreude at Jihad Justin’s predicament. The guy is not only utterly clueless when it comes to Islam, but he’s also naïve about the Saudis. Maybe he thinks that the Saudi autocrats are as warm and fuzzy as the Koran, full of love and just totally misunderstood by the Trumps of the world. It’s nice to see him hit full in the face with a cold bucket of reality.
Older Canadian says
He is not naive or clueless when it comes to Islam. There is an election in Oct 2019 and he has a lot of undoing to do to convince the majority of canadian voters he is not soft on terror and islam. I would not be surprised if all this was a set-up. What he is though, is a stupid globalist.
Mary says
Totally agree Older Canadian.
Westman says
There is another factor to be considered: Why is Saudi Arabia (SA) forming alliances, including Israel, that oppose Iran? Obviously, to have military support when war breaks out between SA and Iran. Just how much can Canada offer in that war? How much financial pain does SA incur by ending monetary relations with Canada – a few days of oil production?
Did someone miss John Bolton declaring to Iranian ex-patriots that they would meet in Tehran in 2019? There is going to be regime change in Iran or war. If Iran attacks Israel, SA and the US will enter. If Iran attacks SA, the US and Israel will enter. The economic screws are now being turned on the Mullah nutters and the citizens are fed up with them.
SA will simply send the withdrawn students to the US (maybe the top colleges for spite). As far as SA is concerned, Canada is a non-player it doesn’t need – as it clearly indicates by the current action.
To get a realistic view of Iran, look at Frontlines, “Our Man In Iran”, a 4 hour, 2-part, view of Iran from inside.
eduardo odraude says
jewdog, I liked that line:
“cold bucket of reality”
I’m going to borrow that in future if you don’t mind.
eduardo odraude says
“hit in the face with a cold bucket of reality”
jewdog says
No problem – just send me your credit card number, unless it’s been cancelled since you visit this site.
eduardo odraude says
It’s in the mail…
Renate says
I am with the Saudis on this one. Trudeau opens his mouth and inserts his foot on a regular basis…gaffe after gaffe after gaffe. Here’s one of his tweets from yesterday: “Today, we join the people of Pakistan and members of the Pakistani community around the world in celebrating Pakistan’s 72nd Independence Day: https://pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2018/08/14/statement-prime-minister-pakistans-independence-day …”. If Trudeau was going to call out Saudi Arabia, he should have called out all the other human rights violators, too, but he’s too busy virtue signalling. Pakistan has Sharia law including anti-blasphemy laws and regularly violates human rights, but Trudeau is celebrating Pakistani Independence because he is the worst “leader” Canada has ever had. He and his cabinet members don’t know what they’re doing and they just make things up as they go along.
Saudi Arabia isn’t any other country. It’s Saudi Arabia. MbS can run it the way he wants to run it. He said he’s going to get the Muslim Brotherhood out of Saudi Arabia and I hope he does. He said he’s going to modernize Saudi Arabia, and I hope he does. MbS is a better leader than Justin Trudeau will ever even hope to be. It’s no wonder MbS wants to halt trade with Canada. He wants to distance himself from the insincere, showboating, phoney as a two-dollar bill Trudeau. I won’t fault him for that.
Renate says
P.S.: Is Trudeau speaking out against the death sentence for Pakistani Christian Asia Bibi? No. All you hear from Canada is crickets chirping on that one and Trudeau is celebrating Pakistan’s independence.
gravenimage says
Renate wrote:
I am with the Saudis on this one.
…………………………..
Of course the appalling Renate is with the barbaric Saudi Arabia on imprisoning human rights activists and demanding that the civilized world not be allowed to speak out, as well as–grotesquely–agreeing with them that Canada is one of the worst countries for women’s rights. She is all over this thread saying just that, starting here and getting worse as she goes:
“Saudi Arabia claims that ‘Canada is the world’s worst oppressor of women’”
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2018/08/saudi-arabia-claims-that-canada-is-the-worlds-worst-oppressor-of-women#comment-1962516
More:
Trudeau opens his mouth and inserts his foot on a regular basis…gaffe after gaffe after gaffe. Here’s one of his tweets from yesterday: “Today, we join the people of Pakistan and members of the Pakistani community around the world in celebrating Pakistan’s 72nd Independence Day:
…………………………..
Of course, this is disgusting. But none of this makes Saudi Arabia better, nor does it mean that Trudeau speaking out for civilized Canadian values for once is not a good thing.
More:
If Trudeau was going to call out Saudi Arabia, he should have called out all the other human rights violators, too, but he’s too busy virtue signalling. Pakistan has Sharia law including anti-blasphemy laws and regularly violates human rights, but Trudeau is celebrating Pakistani Independence because he is the worst “leader” Canada has ever had. He and his cabinet members don’t know what they’re doing and they just make things up as they go along.
…………………………..
Of course, it would be much preferable if Canada was being consistent in calling out every violator of human rights. But this is *not* Renate’s main point, as she makes clear on that other thread, where she says “I see it as Freeland meddling in Saudi domestic policy which she had no right to do”. In fact, she says over and over again that no one has the right to say anything negative about any sovereign nation (how she herself is hence allowed to criticize Canada she does not say).
More:
Saudi Arabia isn’t any other country. It’s Saudi Arabia. MbS can run it the way he wants to run it. He said he’s going to get the Muslim Brotherhood out of Saudi Arabia and I hope he does. He said he’s going to modernize Saudi Arabia, and I hope he does. MbS is a better leader than Justin Trudeau will ever even hope to be. It’s no wonder MbS wants to halt trade with Canada. He wants to distance himself from the insincere, showboating, phoney as a two-dollar bill Trudeau. I won’t fault him for that.
…………………………..
*Good God*–now she actually *prefers* the horrors of Saudi Arabia under brutal Shari’ah law to Canada? Why is she even here at Jihad Watch if she prefers the oppression of Islam to freedom?
Renate says
How about this: You post what you want to post and you let me post what I want to post so that you don’t have to spend all that time interpreting what you think I really mean and telling everyone how “appalling” you think I am.
Terry Gain says
Renate says
Aug 15, 2018 at 7:38 pm
How about this: You post what you want to post and you let me post what I want to post so that you don’t have to spend all that time interpreting what you think I really mean and telling everyone how “appalling” you think I am.
———
Renate
Nobody is stopping you from posting your inane thoughts. I am grateful to GI for patiently critiquing them.
Renate says
But neither of you is a moderator here and you seem to think that you are. So, in your mind, everything here has to pass your and gravenimage’s approval. Who died and made you two moderators?
gravenimage says
Renate does not, of course, have to pay any attention to my comments if she chooses not to.
She has called for caring Infidels to be silenced elsewhere. With all respect to her, I will have to demur.
Renate says
I did not such thing, but have it your way, gravenimage. Free speech, yeah, right!
gravenimage says
I am not a moderator at Jihad Watch, and have never claimed to be–nor has Terry, that I have ever seen. People can agree with my comments, or not–and if they do not, they can say so.
We have the right to reply to other’s posts here.
This is all the more important when someone is spouting Muslim apologia. I reply to Renate just as I reply to those like Ibrahim itace muhammed, Muslim 2018, or Rezali Mehil.
Renate says
It’s not the replying to other people’s posts I take exception to. It’s the gross exaggeration, twisting of words, and lifting ideas from the context they were supposed to be seen in…oh, and the demonization of the poster you disagree with. You two are like a dog with a bone. You can’t make one comment and then move on. You have to beat the thing to death, snarling and snapping every inch of the way. If you disagree with what someone says, you can’t just say you disagree and why. You two have to do a hatch job on the poster. You even carry it from one story to another so that you’re still bringing up something the person said or something you think they said from a completely different story. It’s overkill.
gravenimage says
No, I don’t believe that standing up against evil is “overkill”.
Alien Republican says
I just read the strange exchange between “Gravenimage” and “Renate” and I must say that I find Gravenimage a bit dispointing by starting with the character assassination of “Renate”.
Quote:
“Of course the appalling Renate is with the barbaric Saudi Arabia on imprisoning human rights activists and demanding that the civilized world not be allowed to speak out, as well as–grotesquely–agreeing ”
It seems pretty obvious to me that “on this occasion” he/she is happy that Trudeau is on the receiving end and that his/her beef with Trudeau is his hypocrisy.
gravenimage says
Alien Republican, if you read Renate’s posts at the link I supplied you will she that she is hardly new to castigating Canada for taking Saudi Arabia to task for imprisoning human rights advocates.
And on that thread she does not much mention Trudeau–instead, she is enraged that Infidels say anything critical of the oppressive Saudi Arabia because it is a sovereign nation.
Guy Forester says
Renate:
I believe that it is safe to assume that any kind of political changes that the rulers of the KSA venture to try are really intended to solidify the power structure that keeps the house of Saud in place.
I also would recommend that the KSA’s recent response to Canada should be followed from the “follow the money” point of view. All of a sudden, there is a big movement of money from one place to another. Where did it go, and who benefits?
Renate says
It strikes me that the Kingdom has a lot of internal pressures to deal with, from the entitled and numerous Royals, to the strict religious clerics, to the dissidents and maybe more. It must be a tall order trying to please all these different groups. Then there are issues with not being able to depend on oil as a source of income forever, and issues with the water supply, and issues with external foes in the region. I think MbS has his work cut out for him ruling Saudi Arabia. It’s not just like he can wake up one morning and say, “O.K. I’ve decided that there will be human rights for all in my kingdom. Try-la-la-la-la.”
I’m thinking that the Trudeaus are so cozy with Iran, that they take cues from Iran rather than Saudi Arabia.
Renate says
Note to Andy:
Sometimes even if you use spell check, it doesn’t come out right anyway. I just typed “Tra-la-la-la-la” and spell check changed it to “Try-la-la-la-la”. Even spell check isn’t foolproof.
Andy says
You can say that again Renate,
For some reason when I typed in and tried to spell check “Tra-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la”
I got this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUaYbfKZIiA
gravenimage says
Poor, poor dictator…
I’ll file this with reports that Kim Jong Un is crying over the poor in North Korea…
Renate says
Whatever.
gravenimage says
More sympathy for the devil.
Renate says
I might say the same of you. You want President Trump to get behind Trudeau since Trudeau called out Saudi Arabia on human rights abuses.
gravenimage says
I want President Trump to call out savagery. If on this extremely rare occasion Trudeau agrees, I do not have a problem with that.
And note that Renate’s “reasoning” has changed here–now she is saying that we should not oppose Muslim countries imprisoning human rights advocates because this might appear to be showing support for the usually dhimmi Justin Trudeau; on the other thread she was claiming that no one has the right to say anything critical of this barbarism because Saudi Arabia is a sovereign nation. In fact, she said this over and over again.
Renate says
How about this…if you don’t like what I write, don’t read it.
gravenimage says
Why would I ignore apologia for the brutality of Islam?
Carol the 1st says
I was wondering if KSA resents Trudeau’s relationship with the Agha Khan (leader of the Ismaili muslims and hence Shiites). Pierre Elliot once took in thousands of them when Idi Amin was killing them, The article below paints a good picture of this supposed descendant of Muhammed – but are there two sides to the story?”
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/01/12/7-things-you-wanted-to-know-about-the-aga-khan-controversy-but-were-afraid-to-ask.html
Terry Gain says
Renate is with the Saudis. Yes, how dare anyone criticize the Saudis and their wonderful Sharia compliant human rights record. Especially Canada, which as we all know, treats women worse than any other nation. So say the wonderful Saudis. And if you need more proof you can rely upon Renate who argues that Canada’s failure to convict Gomeshi is all the proof you need of the lack of gender equality in Canada.
And who in their right mind would doubt the word of the very truthful and temperate MbS when he says he’s going to modernize KSA? Why he would no more lie about that than he would lie about the treatment of women on Canada.
Terry Gain says
On in or about.
gravenimage says
Spot on, Terry.
Renate says
Don’t you mean: How dare anyone disagree with gravenimage and Terry Gain?
gravenimage says
Well, this is just ludicrous calumny. Of course Renate is disagreeing with civilized people here. Terry and I are not imprisoning her, or threatening to imprison her, as a result–as Saudi Arabia is doing.
Renate–like so many–does not appear to understand that part of freedom of speech is the right to counter speech. Or perhaps she does know it, and just wants it shut down.
After all, it is not allowed under Shari’ah in Saudi Arabia.
Renate says
Can we give this banter a rest now? Please? Pretty please?
gravenimage says
Renate does not want anyone to be able to say anything against her approval of Islamic barbarism. Poor thing, that anyone would dare gainsay her. Bad, bad, dhimmis.
Renate says
Say what you want about me, but when I had my own business, I worked for a highly skilled Kuwaiti medical student. The Kuwaitis are quite close to the Saudis. He was one of the most handsome men I have ever met. He was also a perfect gentleman and he treated me very fairly. No Islamic barbarism there. I have nothing bad to say about the man. This is in stark contrast to all the low-life Iranians and Pakistani men I have had the misfortune to have met in my life.
gravenimage says
I am glad that Renate ran into someone from a Muslim country who behaved like a civilized person. He cannot have taken his Islam all that seriously, if he was respectful to a “filthy Infidel”, and a woman to boot.
No one here has ever said that there are not some Muslims who are lax regarding their faith. How this anecdote is supposed to make the brutality of Shari’ah better she does not say.
Renate says
I have no doubt he was a devout Muslim. I am just saying they can not ALL be bad, evil demons and MbS may be one of the good ones. As the saying goes, “Rome wasn’t built in a day.” No one seems to want to give MbS a chance.
Did anyone ever think that the West and Saudi Arabia have two very different cultures? Just because we have developed this idea of human rights, do we really have a right to push it down the throats of the Saudis whether they like it or not just because we think we’re morally superior? Maybe not, especially in domestic affairs. Especially when we’re not calling out any other of the myriad of human rights abusers.
How about attacking the Muslim Brotherhood or some more deserving mark for a change? Are the Iranians with their Evin prison perfect? No.
gravenimage says
More from Renate:
I have no doubt he was a devout Muslim. I am just saying they can not ALL be bad, evil demons and MbS may be one of the good ones. As the saying goes, “Rome wasn’t built in a day.” No one seems to want to give MbS a chance.
………………………….
As I noted, some Muslims are lax in their practice of Islam–this does not, of course, change the nature of Islam itself.
And I do not think that imprisoning human rights activists is indicative of Mohammad bin Salman being “one of the good ones”. No, this sort of thing *does not* build a civilized state.
More:
Did anyone ever think that the West and Saudi Arabia have two very different cultures?
………………………….
*Of course* they are different. That does not mean they are in any way equal.
More:
Just because we have developed this idea of human rights, do we really have a right to push it down the throats of the Saudis whether they like it or not just because we think we’re morally superior?
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The idea that a Tweet constitutes force is, of course, just absurd.
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Maybe not, especially in domestic affairs. Especially when we’re not calling out any other of the myriad of human rights abusers.
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Renate can speak for herself. I myself have called out–in no particular order–Saudi Arabia, Iran, North Korea, China, Somalia, Turkey, Mauritania, Chechnya, Cuba, Sudan, Libya, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Yemen, Syria, Jordan, Venezuela, Indonesia, Malaysia, Tajikistan, and the Islamic State. (The foregoing is not in any way a complete list).
More:
How about attacking the Muslim Brotherhood or some more deserving mark for a change? Are the Iranians with their Evin prison perfect? No.
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The idea that Jihad Watch has not criticized the Muslim Brotherhood and Iran is simply absurd.
Here’s the Muslim Brotherhood:
https://www.jihadwatch.org/category/muslim-brotherhood
There are 38 pages here, with about 20 stories per page–ergo, about 750 stories. I have critically commented on most of the stories since 2006.
Here’s Iran:
https://www.jihadwatch.org/category/iran
There are even more on Iran–89 pages, or in the neighborhood of 1,750 stories. Again, I have commented critically on most of these stories over the past twelve years.
I have specifically noted the barbaric conditions in Evin Prison, as in the recent story about the Christian pastor and his parishioners imprisoned there, as well as the recent story about those protesting the Hijab taken there.
The idea that if we oppose the persecution of human rights workers in Saudi Arabia that this ergo means that we are celebrating it in Iran or anywhere else is, of course, ridiculous.
Rarely says
The only thing I can say to Trudeau is “Fuddle Duddle”
Agha Ali Arkhan says
Good one!
George says
This Justin dilemma is more delicious than a mythical bottomless diet of filet mignon, lobster and icecream absent of caloric content. He’s knee nose deep in sh*t with the Saudis pinching his proboscis. God is good. Stay tuned for the best part.
Renate says
Like Stephen Harper said, “Justin Trudeau. He’s just not ready.” I might add, “He never will be ready, either.”
gravenimage says
It is true that Trudeau is not ready to govern Canada, nor will he ever be.
Pretending that the reason he is not ready is because he dared to say anything negative about Islamic barbarism, though, is a very different matter.
Renate says
I’m not “pretending” anything and I’m beginning to think that you and Terry Gain become unhinged if anyone doesn’t fall into agreement with you. (So much for free speech!)
gravenimage says
What rot. No one is infringing on Renate’s freedom of speech.
We just respond to sickening apologia for Islamic savagery.
Renate says
Is there anything the Saudis could do that would meet with your approval?
gravenimage says
Of course there is. I cautiously applauded their granting women the right to drive, well as to work in lingerie shops for female customers. Small things, but actual steps forward.
I have found little else–but would be more than happy to have more occasions to approve of Saudi Arabia.
But no–I do not approve of them imprisoning human rights activists, and am horrified that there are those here who insist that we do so.
Renate says
I don’t think anyone’s insisting that Saudi Arabia imprison human rights activists. If Trudeau is going to call out one, he should call out all the human rights abusers and not single one out to be picked on. Plus, Twitter isn’t the most diplomatic channel for these matters.
gravenimage says
No, Renate was not insisting that Saudi Arabia imprison human rights activists–just saying that they have the right to so so, and that no one should criticize it.
gravenimage says
Hugh Fitzgerald: Saudi Arabia and Canada Square Off
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I *applaud* Canada for finally saying something. I think all the other nations of the West–including the United States–should openly throw their support to Canada against Islamic savagery.
seabird says
Regardless of young Justin’s intentions, I’m so proud of Canada for calling-out the Saudis.
In one tweet, they managed to end their financial relationship and deport 15,000 of its citizens.
Proud of Trump too, as the only US President I can recall ever standing-up to the Turks.
Now if we can only get him to stop “sword dancing” with the Saudis and back one of the few true allies
we’ve ever had-Canada.
Sometimes a countries self-respect is worth more than $billions in weapons contracts.
gravenimage says
+1
Renate says
You people must be Americans. If you only knew what we’re going through in Canada, you wouldn’t be so fond of young Justin.
gravenimage says
What tripe. I am quite familiar with the usually Islamophilic Justin Trudeau–as well as his vicious father with his fondness for every tyrant. I have criticized him many time here.
In the same way, I was often severely critical of Obama.
But if someone had singled out Osama bin Laden’s being taken out on Obama’s watch to criticize him, this would be similar.
I do not criticize someone baselessly; it is their behavior that matters. If some of Trudeau’s staff is rightly being critical of Shari’ah and he is actually backing them up, I am not going to single this out for criticism, as Renate is clearly doing. *Ugh*.
That is, I do not condemn Obama because he had bin Laden taken out, nor do I condemn Trudeau because he is doing something decent for once, if only because he was backed into it by his ambassador.
In fact, Renate would, no doubt, have had more trouble with someone like Harper, who fairly regularly criticized Shari’ah hellholes like Iran.
Renate says
You and Terry Gain somehow have adopted the idea that you can speak for other people. You can not. I only wish we had Stephen Harper back as prime minister. The difference between Harper and Trudeau is Harper would have condemned barbaric practices and not singled out one human rights abuser while giving all the rest a free pass. He also would not meddle in the domestic affairs of another sovereign country. If he did got to bat for someone, he wouldn’t have said so in a tweet.
Terry Gain says
Trump is biding his time with KSA until after he deals with Iran. The revolt in Iran is coming.
Giacomo Latta says
I am more afraid of Iran than KSA in their battle despite of all the ”Reza shah” you may have heard at the world cup. Also, if you drive to work or get driven to work thanks to an internal combustion engine you can thank the KSA. Otherwise, you’d be taking a long hike to an from Mississauga every working day. Btw, KSA does not appear to have nuclear ambitions, other than to have friends that have some nukes at their disposal.
gravenimage says
Canada has a lot of oil, and so do lots of other decent or at least semi-decent places. One is mistaken in believing that all oil comes from Saudi Arabia.
James Lincoln says
Justin Trudeau is in way over his head. Canada needs a centrist or conservative leader yesterday.
Renate says
I keep hoping for the day when Trudeau tires of all this prime minister stuff because it’s too much like work and goes back to supply teaching or camp counselling. He is creating a disaster of epic proportions in Canada every time he does anything.
Charles says
Like a broken clock, Trudeau gets it right once in a while. Chrystia Freeland inadvertently rattled the cage of the Islamic state. I hope she red pills and holds her courage. The same with Trudeau.
gravenimage says
Agreed.
jack reynolds says
This Saudi Arabia thing is just another of Justin’s sick diversions. If Justin has any real interest in changing S.A., then here’s my suggestion. There’s absolutely nothing about the Saud family that is ‘Royal’. The British and French appointed them to that position, because at the time they were the ones most likely to ‘do as they were told’. Just keep repeating that over and over until the message gets through to the Saudi people. The Clown Prince is not invincible. All it would take is for Canada and a small number of other countries to attack Prince M-BS’s authority, point out how artificial the country is and cracks will quickly appear. P.S. Don’t expect any help from the U.S. The Saudi’s do have deep pockets.
J.W.K. says
ustine Trudeau is a female rat.
J.W.K. says
Justine Trudeau is a female rat.
Giacomo Latta says
Famous Chrystia Freeland quotes:
Canada stands together with the Badawi family in this difficult time, and we continue to strongly call for the release of both Raif and Samar Badawi. Black lives matter. Whoops, that was someone else. Russia’s assassination of former spies and domestic journalists are acts of war and thuggery. Sorry, that wasn’t her either. China must respect the intellectual property of Canadians and stop ripping them off. Whoops, again. Jeez, she doesn’t say much.
Giacomo Latta says
One correction, Mr. Fitgerald. Please talk of Saudi planes flying to Toronto, not *into* Toronto.
Terry Gain says
Alien Republican says
Aug 16, 2018 at 6:11 am
I just read the strange exchange between “Gravenimage” and “Renate” and I must say that I find Gravenimage a bit dispointing by starting with the character assassination of “Renate”.
Quote:
“Of course the appalling Renate is with the barbaric Saudi Arabia on imprisoning human rights activists and demanding that the civilized world not be allowed to speak out, as well as–grotesquely–agreeing ”
It seems pretty obvious to me that “on this occasion” he/she is happy that Trudeau is on the receiving end and that his/her beef with Trudeau is his hypocrisy.
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Alien R
GI did not assassinate Renate’s character. Renate revealed her sorry and confused self by siding with the oppressive, human rights-denying Saudis and taking the absurd position that no government has a right to criticize another (no matter how evil it is) except through diplomatic channels.
Renate also doesn’t understand the great good which has come from the one good thing Trudeau has done. The less presence and influence of Saudi Arabia in Canada the better. Your opinion is alien to Republican values.
Renate says
Alien Republic is 100% right. My beef is with Trudeau. However, since Terry Gain and gravenimage seem to have hijacked the comments section of JihadWatch, they use gross exaggeration and statements taken entirely out of context, plus demonization of the poster with whose comments they disgree, to get their not so subtle points across. It’s strange that JihadWatch allows this.
Terry Gain says
Renate
Jihad Watch allows diversity of opinion because it is not run by a fascist but by an honourable man. Even people suffering from Omar Sharif Swoon Syndrome, who believe in censorship and that it is verboten to criticize the evil Saudis, are permitted to opine.
Renate says
You are truly biased and unhinged in your attitude towards me.
Alien Republican says
…and again. While I wholeheartedly agree with your stance towards censorship, the following is just plain stupid leftist tactics:
Quote:
“Even people suffering from Omar Sharif Swoon Syndrome, who believe in censorship and that it is verboten to criticize the evil Saudis, are permitted to opine.”
True on the surface. However, it seems to imply that “Renate” condones the behaviour of the Saudis but phrased in a way that you can deny it.
Pathetic.
It seems that T. and G. have been wrestling with the hogs in the dirt to long….
gravenimage says
Renate’s claim that her only problem is with Trudea himself is simply not the case. She claimed on the other thread that no one has the right to criticize any sovereign state, and certainly not oppressive Saudi Arabia.
And I had no problem at all with Renate–I had not even seen her posting under that username–until three days ago when she began her apologia for Muslim savagery on the “Saudi Arabia claims that ‘Canada is the world’s worst oppressor of women’” story.
Alien Republican says
The second half of “my” comment looks like a technical glitch. ” – – – ” and the rest is NOT from me.
Politicianophobia says
Justine and Chrystia get into a trade fight with Trump and Canadians buy into their BS. Justine and Chrystia fight with the Saudis NOW and the Canadians buy into it. OMG Could they be thinking of calling an election—
Please folks always remember the king of Saudi Arabia said –OUR BEAUTIFUL SHARIAH–
Renate ask GI if there is anything the Saudis could that would meet with her approval
I would say absolutely NOT–La ilaha illa Allah
eduardo odraude says
The extremity of the Saudi reaction suggests tremendous vulnerability. The Saudis reacted like some cornered beast. Saudi Arabia has very often gotten a pass on human rights barbarities, because of their oil power.
The situation goes to a basic question. If you push human rights in Muslim countries that are allies (or supposedly allies), you risk destabilizing the country in question and then some much worse group might come to power, a group even more impervious to human rights complaints.
Still, the extreme reaction by Saudi Arabia makes them a very tempting target for much more public criticism of their barbaric human rights situation. If the truth gets such a reaction from the Saudis, the truth must really be hurting! Let the sunshine in! To all those countries.
Terry Gain says
Let the sunshine in. Keep the Muslims out.
Andy says
In other words BAN ISLAM PROBLEM SOLVED!
gravenimage says
Yes–Islam needs more exposing.
Politicianophobia says
Google Crystia Freeland in action on the topic ofSaudi Arabia being on the UN Women`s Rights Commission and look over her right shoulder at the smug grin on Shariàh loving, Liberal, MP Omar Alghabra`s face. hmmm Did she change her mind on Saudia Arabia. First you say you do and then you don`t………
Del says
Could the Saudi reaction be the result of them supporting Israel and Trudeau financing Hamas?
gravenimage says
No. The Saudi reaction is because they don’t want any of the filthy Infidels calling them out on their oppression.
Politicianophobia says
Thank you GI and Terry for your comments–we birds of a feather must stick together and those who do not like us should flock off. How is that for being unhinged. No more diplomacy for this Islamophobic, unCanadian, racists, hatemonger, nasty, old, white, god fearing woman.
Renate says
I’m glad you got some sense of catharsis reading gravenimage and Terry Gain rip into me.
While Trudeau and his dumb cabinet minister send out critical tweets about the Saudi’s domestic affairs, I still haven’t seen any Canadians storming the federal parliament over Iranian-born Maryam Monsef claiming on her immigration papers that she was born in Afghanistan and still being allowed to keep her seat and stay in Canada. Neither have I seen Canadians up in arms about Pakistani-born Iqra Khalid’s M 103 motion that would effectively pave the way for Sharia law in Canada.
Careful or you may alienate as many people as you win over and you may need those people one day.
gravenimage says
Wait–why would Anti-Jihadists need people who spout apologia for Islamic barbarism?
Renate says
That’s your take on it. The way you misinterpreted what I was saying, just to have someone to light into, (when I was basically on your side), may be a good indication of why people who don’t want Islam or Sharia law are classed as Islamophobic. Facts and opinions are not apologia. But who cares about that when you’re looking for someone to bash?
gravenimage says
How is opining that no one has the right to criticize Saudi Arabia under international law a fact? I’m afraid it is not.
And no, sadly I don’t think that spouting apologia for Islamic savagery means we are on the same side.
Renate says
Saudi Arabia is a sovereign country under international law. Sovereign nations have a right to govern themselves as they see fit. Those are facts. If one nation doesn’t like what another is doing, it can take the issue up through proper diplomatic channels, not on Twitter. That’s another fact.
Alien Republican says
Obtuse and dim witted like a sectarian. That’s not an “ad hominem” because I’m not arguing but judging. Hope you understand that difference, which I doubt.
Renate says
I reduced it into the simplest form to get the point across. This is in case there are those who would have trouble defining the word “fact”.
gravenimage says
No, it is not a “fact” that one is not allowed to say anything critical about tyrannies on Twitter. In fact, this is not true at all, except where good people are banned by Twitter.
gravenimage says
Thank you, Politicianophobia.
Politicianophobia says
God fearing infidel.