Turkey wants to buy 100 F-35 joint fighter strike planes from the United States. The Administration, however, has discovered that not everyone in Washington thinks this is a good idea. There are many reasons to oppose this sale.
First, Turkey has also decided to buy S-400 surface-to-air missiles from Russia. The contract has been signed. The first missiles for Turkey have gone into production in Russia. Turkey is doing this despite American warnings that such a purchase could make the sale of the F-35 less likely. American officials worry that if the F-35 and S-400 are both being operated by Turkey, then the Russians would be able to gauge their system’s performance against the F-35, which was designed precisely to evade Russian defense systems. Russia would be able to obtain through the Turks data about how the American fighter jet can, or cannot, evade the Russian air defense system, and thus learn of the capabilities and vulnerabilities of both the fighter plane and the missile system.
Such concerns about the purchase were expressed last November by Heidi Grant, deputy undersecretary of the US Air Force for international affairs:
“It’s a significant concern, not only to the United States, because we need to protect this high-end technology, fifth-generation technology, but for all of our partners and allies that have already purchased the F-35,” she told Defense News.
The Administration had, as noted, previously warned Erdogan that if Turkey bought the S-400 surface-to-air missiles from the Russians, that might endanger the sale of F-35 planes. But Erdogan brushed aside the warning, and called what appears to have been a bluff, for he has not backed down from trying to acquire the S-400, and the Trump administration nonetheless is still in favor of the sale of F-35s.
That is the first objection to the sale — that the Russians will obtain data on the capabilities and vulnerabilities of the F-35. This threatens both American security, and that of those allies, such as the U.K., that have bought the F-35.
Second, Erdogan will use the sale of F-35s, if it goes through, as a vindication of his bullying diplomacy. He can point, rightly, to the fact that Turkey has opposed Russian interests in its support for Sunni Arab opponents of the Assad regime, and opposed American interests in its attacks on the Syrian Kurds, who have been America’s most reliable military allies in Syria. Yet Erdogan can crow, despite this, that the Russians have sold Turkey their most advanced technology in surface-to-air missile defenses, and the Americans have sold Turkey their most advanced fighter plane. Do we want to help Erdogan become the Ottoman Sultan he aspires to become, or do we want to teach him a lesson?
Third, Turkey has been a member of NATO, a military alliance of nations created to defend Western democracies against Communist dictatorships, since 1952. But Erdogan is no democrat, and his Turkey does not belong in NATO.
Ever since the attempted coup of July 15, 2016, he has become ever more dictatorial in his rule. He had 70,756 people arrested just after the attempted coup, with some being released later, and still other thousands arrested in the two years since. These include judges, prosecutors, lawyers, policemen, teachers, professors, military men, and, of course, journalists. The Turkish military has always been the guardian of and protector of Kemalism, and it is not surprising that Erdogan, the anti-Ataturk, came down hard on that military. By late 2016, 7,028 members of the Turkish armed forces had been arrested. Among them were 164 generals and admirals, 287 colonels, 222 lieutenant colonels, 351 majors, 471 captains, and 1,091 lieutenants.
As for the silencing of journalists opposed to Erdogan, Turkey now imprisons more journalists than any country in the world.
Erdogan does not try to hide or minimize these arrests of so many people. Rather, he trumpets them, as a sign both of the danger supposedly posed to the state by the “plotters” he claims are being directed from Pennsylvania by Fethulleh Gulen and, at the same time, to show the reassuring ability of Erdogan’s men to find and arrest all these traitors to the Turkish state.
By the latest vote in Turkey, the President — that is, Erdogan — has now been granted sweeping new powers that bring the country ever closer to one-man rule.
Now it is the president who will form the Cabinet. That authority used to belong to the prime minister. That post no longer exists. Erdogan alone has named his 16-member Cabinet and his vice president as well.
In the old system, a new Turkish government had to receive a vote of confidence from parliament to assume office. Lawmakers could also initiate censure motions against the government and individual ministers. These parliamentary checks on the executive have been abolished. The authority to appraise and remove ministers now rests exclusively with the president.
Budget-making is another key authority that has been partly transferred from parliament to the president. The president has obtained the power to spend 25% of the national income as he likes without consulting anyone.
The president is also entitled to legislative powers through his authority to issue decrees. These have the force of law, and cannot be undone by the parliament. The only limit on the decrees is that they cannot be used to restrict basic rights and freedoms. However, economic rights are exempted, so that the right to collective bargaining and the right to strike can be affected by presidential decree.
The president now has more control of the judiciary as well. He can now appoint, without any interference from anyone, half of the Constitutional Court, as well as the members of the Higher Board of Judges and Prosecutors, which is the backbone of the judiciary. An independent judiciary no longer exists in Turkey.
What checks and balances Turkey once had are now largely gone. The president can issue laws (called “decrees”), draw up the country’s budget and the programs of all ministries, appoint the members of the top courts, the heads of the intelligence service and the military, and even issue the press cards of journalists. The entire state system will be run from the presidential palace, with Erdogan wielding greatly enlarged powers.
This is not quite a dictatorship, but it is certainly not a democracy of the kind NATO was formed to defend. Should the sale of F-35s go through, Erdogan and the Turkish people will interpret it as a sign of American approval. He will become even more set in his authoritarian ways. Do we want that to be the message? Do we even want to allow Turkey to remain in NATO, when Erdogan has clearly shown that in the contest between Islam and the West, he is on the side of Islam? Do we want Turkish F-35s bombing Greek Cypriots, or Serbs, or Israelis?
Fourth, Erdogan has repeatedly denounced Israel, America’s chief military ally between Europe and India. This past March, an article in Yeni Safak, the paper regarded as Erdogan’s mouthpiece, appeared and — clearly indicating that it was expressing Erdogan’s views — called for an “army of Islam” consisting of the united militaries of the Muslim states, to simultaneously attack Israel “from all sides.” The article noted that the combined forces of the 57 member states of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) could form a joint army:
If the member states of the OIC unite militarily, they will form the world’s largest and most comprehensive army.
The number of active soldiers would be at least 5,206,100, while the defense budget would reach approximately $175 billion (£124 billion).
This was accompanied by an interactive map providing formation of military forces for a joint Muslim attack on Israel.
Do we want to supply our most advanced fighter planes to a man who calmly contemplates a future pan-Islamic war to destroy Israel?
Supplying F-35s to Turkey will
1) Threaten our own security by potentially alerting Russia, which has sold Turkey its S-400 missiles, and has now started to produce them, to the vulnerabilities and the capabilities of the plane. It will further threaten the security of those of our allies that have bought the F-35.
2) Strengthen Erdogan, who will have managed to be supplied with advanced weaponry by both Russia and America, despite Turkey opposing both Russian and American policies in Syria.
3) Be taken as a sign — if not of approval, then at least of non-disapproval — of Erdogan’s ever-more authoritarian rule, as he now has been endowed with vast new presidential powers.
4) Be taken as a sign that despite Erdogan’s threat of a future war between “the cross and the crescent,” America is still willing to appease Turkey by supplying it with its most advanced fighter. Shouldn’t Erdogan’s threat have been enough to cancel that sale?
5) Be taken as a sign the West remains unperturbed by the detailed plan set out by Erdogan’s men for an Islamic war to destroy the state of Israel. The failure to call off the F-35 sale following the publication of this plan semaphores the West’s seeming indifference to this threat, and does nothing to discourage Erdogan in planning a violent Jihad against Israel, a campaign that he appears to be itching to lead.
In conclusion, Erdogan should be made to feel, and fear, the displeasure of the American government. Even if it did not pose a security risk, the sale of F-35s should not go through. Erdogan should be given to understand that if he continues in his islamizing and dictatorial path, Turkey will be expelled from NATO, a move which by any reasonable calculation ought to have happened several years ago. After all, NATO is no longer most needed t to defend democracies from Red Army tanks rolling westward. The chief threat to the peoples of Europe and North America comes now from the forces of Islam, both those outside, and those already within, our countries, engaged in whatever forms of jihad — stealth jihad, diplomacy, demography, propaganda, economic warfare, conventional combat, terrorism — prove at a particular time and place to be most effective. And the would-be leader of the Islamic countries, that Ottoman sultan issuing his directives and threats from his 1,100 room presidential palace, needs to be given his comeuppance.
Denying him the F-35s he is counting on is a good place to start.
Mac-101 says
“Kapitalist will sell use the rope we will hang them with!”
Frank Anderson says
Sell the jets along with a good number of F-22’s to Israel. Really make the days of a number of evil people.
Westman says
There is a new Ayatollah in town, Ayatollah Erdogan. Don’t let the suit fool you – in his soul he’s wearing a rag-ring , an ugly beard, and yelling, “death to America and Israel.”
The Muslim militants are fond of saying they like the gathering of Israel so they can annihilate the Jews in one place. Erdogan and his “OIC army” should realize that attacking Israel puts them also in one place. We know what happened the last time a group of nations tried to annihilate Israel and under Trump, the US will be assisting Israel against any future attempt.
Selling any weaponry to Erdogan is insane. Is the defense industry that greedy?
TrueChristian says
You’re absolutely right. We shouldn’t even sell them the toppings to a pizza, let alone anything that shoots. Eroclown is a self professed Israel hater and the last thing we should do is arm our friend Israel’s enemy.
If it came to it, a decision to protect Israel, we should not hesitate to turn the rest of the middle east to glass. Israel has gone out of their way to get along with the “people” surrounding her. If Israel is attacked I’ll be one of a bunch that go defend her.
So no, we shouldn’t sell those jets. You are correct. Sorry for carrying on a bit but Israel should be left alone.
J D S says
Even though the sale of these planes would be a boon to the economy…….weighing the dark side to the sale and thinking about the missiles purchase from Russia…Why is Turkey wanting these weapon systems in the first place.
None of these bad boys should ever been able to produce or buy arsenals ….Iran, north Korea, Pakistan and others…bad mistake..made in years past and recently. Just plain mistakes and stupidness galore……
Carolyne says
Yes, they are that greedy along with members of the “Dark State” such as Brennan who so it is said converted to Islam years ago. Also, IMO, the entire Department of Justice is corrupt so no one except President Trump and his people is trying to protect the US.
Karlee says
A very well laid out case against the sale of F35s. I’m certain Trump was made aware and furthermore I think Trump is looking to remove Turkey from NATO.
seabird says
There is no mechanism for removing a NATO member under its original Charter.
Any member Nation can “quit” at any time (unlikely that Turkey would) and the process takes 1 year to complete.
If the offending nation (like Turkey) won’t quit, the other members could all resign and then reform under a new Charter.
There were no requirements for NATO membership when it was created in 1949.
In 1999,requirements were established due to former USSR States wanting to join NATO.
Members are now required to have democratically oriented Govts with due process of law and free market economies.
Turkey would fail to meet those requirements (except for the free market economy) if it applied to join NATO, today.
Avenger says
Excellent article by Mr. Fitzgerald.
Those 100 F35’s would be used against Israel, Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia, Cyprus, Iraq, Syria, Kurds inside and outside of Turkey and Iran.
If he used them against Russia, Ankara would be removed from the map.
Buraq says
@ Ibe itace mohamed – if he happens by
Turkish Lira reduced to ashes, Iran’s Rial reduced to ashes, and all because of ….. ? Yes, crushed by the mighty, steamrolling US Dollar.
Looks like two of the main players in Islam’s hegemony game have got economies in flames. You’re a clown Ibe, and so is Erdogan!
TrueChristian says
Turkey should be removed from nato because they are a dictatorship in everything but name so far.
The last thing we want is to arm more of our future enemies and that’s obviously what he wants to be.
Frank Anderson says
TC, imagine the US, UK, France or the Soviet Union selling weapons to Nazi Germany. But, surprise, surprise, the US sold Hamilton-Standard aircraft propellers to Japan! Check it out.
Cicero says
Literate well written well researched article.
Thank you Fitzgerald sir!
Mac-101 says
Would the Turks buy the fighters with their money or money given to them in US Military Aid?
.
If we give them the money to buy them then this is a NO BRAINER!
Frank Anderson says
Throwing away all the security of the most expensive single weapons program in the history of the world to date makes no sense at any price. The Chinese/Soviets stole our Sidewinder missile (app. 1958) when one flew up a tailpipe and failed to detonate. They stole the secrets of the Avro Arrow, a Mach 3 fighter being built in Canada, and used them to build the MiG25 and MiG31. See, Mig 25 Pilot. The Chinese already have their copy of the F35 flying from hacking the “secure” files from the same company that provides “security” for online medical records. Why bother with security. Why not just let the Chinese, Russians, Iranians and North Koreans come into the design and production facilities and take all they want. Then try fighting a war when you can’t tell your equipment from theirs, and their equipment has the benefit of the “second draft”..
Mac-101 says
Don’t fogit Bill Clinton approving the sale of our Satellite/Missile technology to the Red Chinese so they can point nukes and Hillary sellin our Uranium to the Russians. Ya can’t make this stuff up.
.
And if u dig into the source of funds we most likely are givin them the money to buy them! Just a guess though!
.
And on a personal note the Chi-Coms have all 58 pages of my life in detail with every contact person I have came in contact with!
Frank Anderson says
Isn’t that a comforting thought?
The only hope for our people in uniform is the spare parts and secret off switch will work when we need them to stop working.
SAE says
This, well-wriiten, article noted that the combined forces of the 57 member states of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) could form a joint army… AND If the member states of the OIC unite militarily, they will form the world’s largest and most comprehensive army.
……………………………………………
Since I never could tolerate traitorous-obama, when he made his (umpteenth) infamous gaf regarding the U.S.’s “57 states”, I naively assumed he was just being incompetent and ignorant -as usual. However, what I’ve come to recently learn is that there actually are 57 states in the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC), and that abominable obama had merely made a Freudian slip …an unintentional error; regarded as revealing his subconscious, deceitful thoughts and feelings.
Every day, I thank the Lord that obama is no longer the …ppp prrrr…presss…president. But, regrettably, the irreversible suffering and damage has already been done ✅
Supplying F35s to an OIC state further advances the probability of a final battle (Armageddon), between the cross and the crescent. Heaven help us. ✝️
https://www.redstate.com/diary/Socrates/2010/11/26/the-57-states-gaffe-was-no-joke/
jewdog says
I wrote to my Senators to stop the F35 to Turkey deal. Lindsey Graham, Chairman of the State and Foreign Operation Committee wrote back and indicated that it was under review.
Avenger says
Don’t count on Lindsey Graham to attempt stopping this sale. He is heavily influenced by the Saudi’s and Turkey is Saudi Arabia’s attack dog.
Baucent says
Actually Turkey is not on good terms with the Saudis at present, especially as Qatar has just announced a multibillion $ loan to Turkey.
Wellington says
Erdogan is undoing most everything Ataturk (Mustapha Kemal) intended for Turkey.
Kemal is hardly blameless, far from it (and most particularly on the matter of the Armenian Genocide), but at least he realized how retrograde Islam is—and Erdogan surely doesn’t even get this. Well, let’s hope Erdogan’s extremely inept handling of the Turkish economy will be the first step to finally getting rid of this cretin who is on the wrong side of history many times over. And, oh yeah, most definitely, deny him the F-35s. In fact, deny him everything. After all, he so deserves it.
May he rot and may Islam too. A beautiful dual sentiment I would contend.
mortimer says
Recep Tayyip Erdogan is 63 years old and could be dictator of Turkey for many years. His net worth has risen to approximately $58 million (£44m) making him the richest Turkish politician, according to Top Richest. Erdogan was also listed as the 48th most powerful person on the 2018 Forbes list.
All members of the Erdogan family appear to be in business. Bild also revealed that Erdgogan’s son Ahmet’s net worth amounted to around $80 million (£60m) and made claims that he may be supported by the Turkish government.
Erdogan’s other son Bilal, who frequently garners media attention for alleged criminal activity, now lives in Italy after being embroiled in a political corruption scandal. The Turkish President also has one of the most lavish official residences in the world, the Ak Saray, otherwise known as the White Palace, which has a whopping 1,100 rooms, 250 of which are for the sole use of the Erdogan family.
Thought to be 30 times the size of the White House and believed to be the largest palace built anywhere in the world for more than 100 years, a reported £7 million was spent on carpets and another £5 million on 400 10ft high double doors.
The silk wallpaper is thought to have cost £2,000 a roll and one drinking glass in the household is worth £250. Due to the numerous spas, swimming pools, bathrooms and steam rooms, the heating bill is thought to run up to £500,000 every winter. The entire home is thought to have cost £500 million to construct.
Mac-101 says
Sounds like the new Caliph already got his digs together!
DVult says
If someone was to send a hit team after Erdopig it might take a while what with 1100 rooms to hide in.
eduardo odraude says
I agree should be no such sale (unless we can secretly include in those jets a technology that permits us easily to disable them at will).
Frank Anderson says
E.O. any bets such “off” switches were included in the F-14s that were sold to Iran? In any event I think you may find that Mark Rich, who was pardoned by WJC at the end of his term, with the possible assistance of Eric Holder, obtained spare parts for the F-14s to keep them flying. Please check me on those details: I may be in error. Either way, I hope a lesson was learned about turning over our technology.
Mac-101 says
So much treasonous activity by past actors and NO Indictments. Somehow I think we have been had!
Frank Anderson says
I think you will find a really large contribution to a library from the Rich family was involved. Pay to Play has been going on for a long time.
Mac-101 says
Plus some speculate a little sugar from Mrs. Rich. LOL!
StellaSaidSo says
Don’t give up, Mac. I think DJT subscribes to the ‘give ’em enough rope’ approach.
Mac-101 says
Stella, we can NOT give up. Trump is our last Earthly hope. He will either give THEM the good fight or he will be the Judas Goat leadin us up the slaughter chute. With the Globalist strangulatin the internet and ALL other electronic forms of communications, the time is commin soon for them to act. Surely by 2021 we will KNOW! Pray fro Trump and our Nation and that we turn back to G-d!
Frank Anderson says
Mac, I ask that you consider that we are our own best hope. I do not think it is reasonable or fair to be utterly dependent upon anyone other than God for our future. Just exactly who God is, and how we connect, are honest questions for each one of us to decide. Whatever good other people can do for us, we can do better working together when possible, and alone for ourselves when necessary. Please consider my suggestion to read Viktor Frankl’s Man’s Search for Meaning if you have not already. BTW I am a strong DJT supporter, especially after he hired John Bolton to advise him.
Mac-101 says
Frank you are correct. However the people need a leader, otherwise they have no synergy and are easily disposed of without Organization.
.
One must follow a Banner and the Cross.
Frank Anderson says
Mac, a leader can help or hurt. I learned the hard way to understand a lot about people by listening to them tell about who they admire, who are their heroes. UK had Churchill, when they finally decided to listen to him. Germany had Hitler. Leaders, for example Neville Chamberlain, can be a crutch to help excuse inaction of the individual. That is to me the point of Patrick McGoohan’s landmark series The Prisoner. For 16 of the 17 episodes McGoohan’s character No. 6 (The Ordinary Man) tussled with “leaders” (No. 2) in a quest to find out who is NUMBER One. The series according to some thought is a presentation of psychiatrist Abe Maslow’s theory of the process of “individuation” where as we grow more mature we need less and less to depend on “leaders” and more on ourselves for guidance.
I have many Christian friends who follow the Cross. I follow Jesus my own way and hope it is acceptable to the God of Life, Liberty, Joy and Progress, whom I believe is the same God taught by Jesus and the Jews for 3700 years, more or less.. Right now I don’t think any “denomination” would admit that I am a member.
I have a friend who was the gunner on the destroyer Maddox who sank, I believe 3 North Vietnamese boats as they were attacking that first day. He was the gunner of the turret that he built, modified for faster movement than the other turrets, installed and got “drafted” to operate. The Gulf of Tonkin happened.
Mac-101 says
As much as I’ve been around yours is the first that has a credible 2nd hand account that it is real. Interestin. I’ll come back and say that in 2005 there were STILL WMDs in Iraq. Our unit personally handled Sarin gas, yellow cake and even two liquid nitrogen cooled cylinders marked Bio-Hazards. Even if the helicopter crashed they were supposed to be safe for 20 minutes. I sure didn’t believe dat. LOL!
.
So is it ALL disinformation so NOBODY believes in the system anymore so they can say the Truth is a Lie; Easier to spread Anarchy and KAOS, so THEY can provide the CONTROL?
Frank Anderson says
Mac, my friend knows the correct answer to the question, “Whence came you?”, and all the following questions and answers. If you don’t know the significance of that question and following, please ask around, especially in military circles. You will soon find someone who understands. I was not “there”. I believe his word is good and worthy. He has a lifetime of experience and service that is inspiring and downright awesome. I hope the truth is being told.
Spreading chaos and distrust has been a basic practice of Communism (International Socialism) since Karl Marx, by whatever label it is hiding behind and using at the moment, including Nazism (National Socialism). That is why I suggest the first priority is to trust yourself and rely as little as possible/necessary on “leaders”. I think this is why Jews and Masons were cursed in the same breath in Nazi Germany-they generally try to think for themselves, at least often enough to worry Himmler and Hitler. The remainder of Nazis dared never think for themselves because that could be fatal immediately. Of course, Stalin with his death quotas was never a paradise of competing ideas, was it?.
Mac-101 says
I got 42+ years US Army ABN Ranger SF Aviator. Only time I was around Squids was on landing craft insertions and latter on loading and unloading Helicopters at sea. As a CW5 I gladly followed the Leader and guided them to actions which I thought would work, even though at times I believed I had a better plan. One can NOT always do what they think is best, but settle for the plan that will work that you can git the recourses, equipment, parts, time and labor to accomplish it.
.
Now if I agree with 51% of what someone says and none of the other goes against my core beliefs TOO strongly I will gladly follow. Very little is accomplished by individuals if they can NOT git people to follow and work together for a common goal.
Frank Anderson says
The worldwide fraternity that I am describing includes members from all services, especially WWII and shortly thereafter. I was sent to a military school from the first to 12th grades, could not pass the requirements for being drafted in the Vietnam era and did what I could at every opportunity to help anyone who served our country. I have another honored friend for more than 60 years that started in the Navy, went to the Marines and retired from the Army. My complicated life looks simple compared to his. If those words are not familiar to you, please ask around. I have great confidence among your friends someone will know them and explain why I believe what my friend said.
Leadership is fine under many circumstances; but there are times when thinking for ourselves not only makes sense, but is absolutely vital to survival and success. Please think about the 2 lessons of Exodus 1) No matter how well things start they change; 2) God does not want any of His Children to be slaves of any form. When leadership graduates to slavery that is time to change arrangements. Just look at many countries now being conquered by muslim immigration. What we read here daily conveys the need to remember that leaders are only “number 2” and in the final analysis we are “number 1” when it comes to decisions that determine our life and death or our freedom and slavery. It is the terror of leaders that people will see the leaders can be deposed and replaced. Free people can tell leaders to go away when the leaders betray their trust.. Slaves have no such choice.
Mac-101 says
If I remember my Bible correctly. Once Moses came of the Mountain something like half the Israelites were worshiping a Golden Calf which they made and havin a wild party. Moses was the LEADER and had those people ALL killed.
.
Frank Anderson says
Mac, Moses lived more or less 3,300 years ago. Please correct me if I am off. Much has been learned since then. As much as we wish God is present today only through us as far as we can tell. Leaders no longer have authority under international law to exterminate dissidents. That is called a “crime against humanity”. Such mass killings are common in totalitarian societies, starting with islam, and including Communism anywhere from Cuba to the Soviet Union, North Korea and China, and Nazism.
Resistance to totalitarian impulses in response to the campaign of similar totalitarian ideologies demands a third choice which identifies individual rights and liberty as its paramount goal. Mass slaughtering our way out of this ongoing conquest makes us follow Nietzsche’s proposition (paraphrased) that in order to combat monsters we must be careful not to become monsters. Or stated another way, we become what we fear. Please think about it. You have put your life on the line most of your life so that *we* can live in a society where the rights of individuals are respected. Is that to be thrown away for any reason, especially because some “leader” calls for it? Any leader should have limits.
Mac-101 says
You mentioned Exodus, I just responded with what I remember about Moses!
Frank Anderson says
Mac, one of the common misunderstandings about Judaism is that it is frozen by the New Testament into an inaccurate picture before the Temple was destroyed in the year 70, and that Judaism has not changed since. I have hosted a number of visitors to a Jewish congregation who were looking for a sacrificial altar. There have been no priests, high or otherwise, or sacrificial altars in Judaism anywhere in the world since the Temple was destroyed in 70 CE/AD. Judaism was the religion of Jesus. It inspired him and taught him. He saw things that were missed by some and understood by others, but made them come to the front by his life. He is considered by some to be the first “well-known” Reform Jew, calling for a continuing examination of all the rules that defined Judaism.
All of this discussion is as I understand the subject from more or less a lifetime of study including about 25 years of connection with Jewish friends. The Torah is the first 5 Books of the Bible, called the Tanakh by most Jews. The Torah is divided into lessons to be presented weekly during the year. For about 2,000 years, people have been thinking and discussing their meaning, finding new understanding along the way. Contrast this with islam which makes every effort, under pain of death, to hold its teachings to be “final, perfect, complete and unchangeable”. The Judaism that is described in the New Testament is, politely, not correct, then and certainly is not correct now. I was shocked when I visited a Jewish service for the first time to see just how much was different from what I had been told.
I think it is vital to accept that Jesus was a learned and observant Jew. I question what has been done after his life. I have been told by a PhD in Theology that a big fight (see the subject Christology) went on for more than 100 years after Jesus is supposed to have lived on the question of whether he was God or not. The question was settled by the decree of a “leader”. Anyone who dared differ was a heretic, receiving treatment any muslim would recognize. My question that remains unanswered is how a Jewish man would feel about being worshiped. After more than 60 years of life and several near-death opportunities, I have come to one conclusion that we are all, every one of us, Children of God, and Brothers and Sisters of Jesus. We are given a choice to accept that relationship or to reject it. But, again from my own experience, God ignores our rejection until such time as we finally listen and hear His presence.
The 2 lessons of Exodus should not be taken as a blind acceptance of everything written and modified over more than 2,500 years by countless people. The three great lessons I received the first day I visited the Jewish congregation were: 1) Wisdom is its own authority 2) Wisdom is all around us; but wherever it is in human hands there is also error and deception-The challenge is to hear the wisdom and put it to work in our lives 3) ASK EVERY QUESTION repeatedly. The answer received each time will be closer to the truth, but still short of perfection. The truth has nothing to fear from questions-it comes through each time clearer, cleaner and brighter. With God as our Guide and Goal however we reach for Him, with whatever help we employ, we will do better. Compare that with islam which seeks nothing but misery and death for the “ordinary” people.
I must accept the irony that I am better away from the Jewish community in the US because of my understanding of islam and what it intends for Jews. I believe God has good plans for all of us.
I suggest that self defense is an essential part of the teaching that appears on what I call “both sides of the Book”, to “love your neighbor as yourself.” Assuming we have a duty in a civilized society to defend our neighbor, we also have the same duty to defend ourselves. The account that one of the disciples was armed could be taken as suggesting agreement, I think the treatment of the “apostates” you mentioned was at God’s Hands and judgment. I don’t think it has been repeated by God since. Remember the 1973 Yom Kipper war when Israel could have slaughtered the surrounded and helpless Egyptian army which had attacked on the most solemn day of the Jewish year, and instead gave them food, water and transportation out of the desert. Food for thought.
Mac-101 says
I just threw out Mosses name since you mentioned Exodus. Moses was confronted with major leadership issues. His people were constantly rebellion against G-d as they were fed manna from heaven. He was a strong leader which the Israelites needed. I no way advocate for the whole scale murder of people because of their different beliefs. Now if a group of people are dedicated to killing you, as you said, one must respond appropriately.
Frank Anderson says
Mac, I think we wholeheartedly agree that Moses was one of the greatest leaders of all time. The Jewish teaching that there are no perfect people is to the proposition that a person does not need to be perfect to do great things. In a military setting there must be a leader to direct the combat. If you contrast the German and Russian theories that I observe in WWII, the Germans expected the officers and NCO’s, at the start of the war, to make decisions at the scene based on what they observed in order to achieve the goals set by “upstairs”. The Russians set the goals and wasted millions of lives by not caring whether those plans and goals were the best choices.
We are in a political environment where such military style leadership might be called a dictatorship. Free people are governed by consent according to rules established by “the people” to limit “the government”. Totalitarian government turns the whole arrangement around so that each person literally lives or dies at the whim of the leadership. (ex. Medical Review Board aka Death Panels) I mention as my example of the totalitarian dream the movie Logan’s Run, starring Michael York. IF we wish to be “free” and have “liberty and rights” we must see that the right to become Number One is also a duty for us to take charge when corruption and incompetence prevail. I do not recall a time in history when all of Western values have been under such attack by its leadership as it is now.
ArcadiaP says
It’s a shame that this article is not carried throughout the nation but make sure to forward it to every one.
Relic says
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IetIg7y5k3A
Pieter says
If the USA sell this fighter to Mr. Erdogan put a explosive in in it and by using the plain to the wrong nation, blow up this fighter.
Joe says
That “coup” was highly suspicious from the beginning. It looked more like a way of killing the competition.
Mac-101 says
Exactly
Frank Anderson says
Do you recall the story of the German radio station at Gleiwitz that was attacked by Germans dressed as Polish soldiers to create a pretext for the invasion of Poland?
Mac-101 says
Yup, and we have numerous examples of other ones. Let me just say Gulf of Tokin! Others I will not mention now!
Carolyne says
I remember years ago being in Turkey after a coup d’ tat. It was a popular one, apparently pro Ataturk. The country was short of funds so patriotic Turks gave their wedding rings to the government to melt down for their gold content. In exchange they were given rings made out of some kind of base metal. I think that I have read that the Turkish military, from time to time, removes a government they consider wandering away from Ataturk’s principles. But recently, the military failed and Erdogan not only won but has jailed or murdered the principle perpetrators. There will likely not ever be another chance.