Has McCarrick ever actually read the Qur’an? Almost certainly not. If he ever does, here is some of the “sense of humanity” he will encounter:
“And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from where they drove you out; persecution is worse than slaughter. But fight them not by the Holy Mosque until they should fight you there; then, if they fight you, kill them — such is the recompense of unbelievers, but if they give over, surely Allah is all-forgiving, all-compassionate. Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is Allah’s; then if they give over, there shall be no enmity save for evildoers.” (Qur’an 2:191-193)
“They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore do not take friends from among them, until they emigrate in the way of Allah; then, if they turn their backs, seize them and kill them wherever you find them; do not take for yourselves any one of them as friend or helper.” (Qur’an 4:89)
“This is the recompense of those who fight against Allah and His Messenger, and hasten about the earth to do corruption there: they shall be killed, or crucified, or their hands and feet shall be struck off on opposite sides; or they shall be exiled from the land. That is a degradation for them in this world; and in the world to come awaits them a mighty chastisement.” (Qur’an 5:33)
“When your Lord was revealing to the angels, ‘I am with you; so confirm the believers. I shall cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers; so strike the necks, and strike every finger of them!” (Qur’an 8:12)
“Fight them, till there is no persecution and religion is all for Allah; then if they give over, surely Allah sees the things they do.” (Qur’an 8:39)
“Make ready for them whatever force and strings of horses you can, to strike terror into the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others besides them that you know not; Allah knows them. And whatever you spend in the way of Allah shall be repaid you in full; you will not be wronged.” (Qur’an 8:60)
“Then, when the sacred months are over, kill the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them, and confine them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent, and perform the prayer, and pay the alms, then let them go their way; Allah is All-forgiving, All-compassionate.” (Qur’an 9:5)
“Fight those who believe not in Allah and the Last Day and do not forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, and do not practice the religion of truth, even if they are of the People of the Book — until they pay the jizya with willing submission and feel themselves subdued.” (Qur’an 9:29)
“Allah has bought from the believers their selves and their possessions against the gift of Paradise; they fight in the way of Allah; they kill, and are killed; that is a promise binding upon Allah in the Torah, and the Gospel, and the Koran; and who fulfils his covenant truer than Allah? So rejoice in the bargain you have made with Him; that is the mighty triumph.” (Qur’an 9:111)
“O believers, fight the unbelievers who are near to you; and let them find in you a harshness; and know that Allah is with the godfearing.” (Qur’an 9:123)
“When you meet the unbelievers, strike their necks, then, when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds; then set them free, either by grace or ransom, till the war lays down its loads. So it shall be; and if Allah had willed, He would have avenged Himself upon them; but that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will not send their works astray.” (Qur’an 47:4)
And more laughs regarding terrorism in particular:
“We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve for what they have associated with Allah of which He had not sent down authority. And their refuge will be the Fire, and wretched is the residence of the wrongdoers.” (Qur’an 3:151)
“When your Lord inspired to the angels, ‘I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip.’” (Qur’an 8:12)
“And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know, whom Allah knows. And whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not be wronged.” (Qur’an 8:60)
How have Muslims throughout history understood these passages? They took them as meaning “Give the unbelievers a big hug, chuck them on the shoulder, and buy them a chocolate malt,” right? Unfortunately, the historical record is not quite so full of laughter and sunshine. Find out how Muslims throughout history have actually understood the Qur’an’s exhortations to warfare in my new book, The History of Jihad From Muhammad to ISIS, which you can order here.
“Leave them; they are blind guides. And if a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.” (Matthew 15:14)
“Cardinal Theodore McCarrick Cited ‘Sense of Humanity’ in ‘Holy Book’ of ‘The Koran,’” CNSNews.com, August 31, 2018:
(CNSNews.com) – Cardinal Theodore McCarrick gave a speech at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C., on June 8, 2001, when he was the archbishop of Washington, in which he noted the “sense of humanity” found in “all the holy books,” including “the Koran.”
“But for everyone, not just Christians, there is a sense of humanity,” McCarrick said in an address that was televised on CSPAN.
“It’s in all the books, all the holy books,” McCarrick said. “It’s in the Koran. It’s in the Bible. It’s in the writings of the eastern religions, this great sense of the wonder of the human being, this great sense of what man can do.”
In June, the church removed Cardinal McCarrick from public ministry because it found “credible” the allegation that he had abused a teenage boy. “A church panel determined that a former altar boy’s allegations that McCarrick fondled him during preparations for Christmas Mass at St. Patrick’s Cathedral in 1971 and 1972 were ‘credible and substantiated,’” the Associated Press reported on June 20….
Halal Bacon says
you know what you did you scab on humanity
Jon Sobieski says
You have to be truly evil to be a man of the cloth who lies to your flock, an d preys on yourng boys. This is why the Catholic Church is viewed with such disdain. Drain that swamp.
SJ says
Exactly. He probably loves this religion because now he’s ALLOWED to abuse children! This is easy to see.
gordon miller says
yes.
Lydia Church says
Only inhumanity is found in it.
But since he also likes pedophilia, they must all be ‘cut of the same cloth.’
Kay says
Even if a line or two in the K would hint at a sense of humanity, a Cardinal should be educated enough to consider the whole context.
Westman says
There is a “sense of humanity” in the Quran – as earthly slaves.
There is also a “sense of humanity” – that is, the majority of humanity – tortured forever by a sadistic Allah; burning off and replacing skins, pouring boiling water on heads, giving caustic liquid to drink, etc.
Strangely, Islam, as described in the Quran is very human in aggressive thought and very inhumane; presenting war on unbelievers as a virtue, and being killed in that endeavor as a sure path to Muslim Paradise.
Strangerinastrangeland says
He liked the part in the Koran about taking boys as pearls.
Diane Harvey says
McCarrick is an example of “Wrong in one, wrong in many.”
gravenimage says
Yes indeed.
Akita says
Many Catholics speculate that there is a satanic dimension to all this clerical abuse. Read the Pennsylvania AG Report. Making teen boys lie naked on a crucifix, inserting consecrated hosts into the vaginas of teen girls. Very horrific things. These predators are all in league with satan.
SJ says
Do you think these men actually JOIN the CHURCH to abuse boys ? I’ve thought about this for years. I know it’s not all of them but it seems to fit. What a disgrace. They need to fix this problem. For good.
StellaSaidSo says
‘Twas ever thus. The priesthood was often the only career available to gay men. One could hide behind the celibacy requirement, avoiding all the pressures experienced by heterosexual men (marriage, family), within a community containing like-minded chaps. PLUS, if you were really ambitious, you could get to wear gorgeous frocks.
CogitoErgoSum says
There is a sense of humanity in the Quran alright …… one that divides humanity into two parts: the Muslim upper-class and the “infidel” lower class (the human and the sub-human.) Hmmm ….. perhaps McCarrick makes that distinction himself between those who are on top and those who are on bottom.
gravenimage says
+1
mortimer says
NEWS FLASH FOR CARDINAL MCCARRICK: ISLAM IS *DUALISTIC*
The language of Islam is dualistic. As an example, there is never any reference to humanity as a unified whole. Instead there is a division into believer and kafir (disbeliever). Humanity is not seen by Islam as one body, but is divided into whether the person believes Mohammed is the prophet of Allah or not. Christians and Jews are disbelievers, but disbelievers are kafirs, too. Polytheists are Hindus, but they are also kafirs. The terms infidel and polytheist are religious words. Only the word “kafir” shows the common political treatment of Christian, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, animist, atheist and humanist.
The word kafir should be used instead of “disbeliever”, the standard word. Disbeliever is a neutral term. The Koran defines the kafir and kafir is not a neutral word. A kafir is not merely someone who does not agree with Islam, but a kafir is evil, disgusting, the lowest form of life. Kafirs can be tortured, killed, raped, lied to and cheated.
Kafir is what the Koran and Islam call the disbelievers. Kafir is the worst word in any language.
• MUSLIMS MAY NOT BEFRIEND KAFIRS BECAUSE KORAN SAYS…
• No friendship with disbelievers (3:28, 4:144)
• Be harsh (violent) against disbelievers (48:29)
• The worst of beasts is one who rejects Allah (8:55)
• Severe punishment for atheists (5:10, 5:86)
• No friendship with Jews, Christians (5:51)
• Be firm against disbelievers (9:73)
• Do not befriend your family members who are disbelievers (9:23)
• Disbelievers are unclean (9:28)
• Those who reject Mohammedan faith are dogs (7:176)
• Allah sealed the heart of disbelievers, great penalty (2:7)
• Even if some believe, Allah does not trust them (2:8)
• Allah curses the blasphemers (2:88)
• Allah curses those without Islamic faith (2:89)
• Torment for non-believers (4:56)
• Kill non-believers (4:89)
• In their heart is a disease, Allah has increased the disease (2:10)
• Disbelievers make mischief on earth (2:11,12)
• Wander like blind ones (2:15)
• Deaf, dumb and blind (2:18)
• The fuel of fire is men and stones (2:24)
• Are apes (2:65)
• Most grievous punishment (2:81,104)
• Penalty shall not be lightened (2:86)
• Allah’s wrath and humiliating punishment (2:90)
• Allah is an enemy to those who reject faith (2:98)
• Disgrace and exceeding torment for disbelievers (2:114)
• Companion of blazing fire (2:119)
• Only Islam is acceptable (3:85)
• Punishment for rejecting faith (3:91)
• No friends from outsiders (3:118)
• Allah makes some one more sinful so he can be punished more (3:178)
• Punishment for apostates (3:86-88, 3:90, 4:137, 16:106)
• Non-believers go to hell (4:140, 7:36)
• Partial believers will go to hell too (4:150)
• Intentionally preventing disbelievers from knowing the truth (6:25, 110)
• Allah could guide, if chose to, but He did not (6:35)
• Smite disbelievers at neck and cut off fingers (8:12)
• Penalty for disbelievers is fire (8:14)
• It is not ye who slew them; it was God (8:17)
• Allah is a “plotter” against disbelievers (8:30)
• Disbelievers are impure, will be heaped together and cast into hell (8:37)
• Fight them on until there is no more tumult ….(8:39)
• Taste the fire of blazing fire (8:50)
• Apostle should not take prisoner of war …..(8:67)
• Enjoy booty of disbelievers (8:69)
• After the holy four months slay the pagans wherever you find them (9:5)
• Mosques are for believers only (9:18)
• Disbelievers pay Jizya tax (9:29)
• Grievous punishment for not joining in war (9:39, 48:16))
• Heat will be produced from the wealth the forehead branded (9:35)
• Do not offer prayer at death of disbelievers (9:84,113)
• Fight non-believers (9:123)
• Boiling water for disbelievers (10:4)
• Fire heaving of sighs & sobs for disbelievers (11:106)
• Fire will seize disbelievers (11:113)
• Yokes around necks, companions of fire (13:5, 2:81)
• End of disbeliever is fire (13:35)
• Intentionally misguiding those whom he pleases (14:4)
• Boiling fetid water to drink) (14:16)
• In gulp boiling water, death (14:17)
• Disbelievers covered with shame and misery (16:31)
• Fire for the pagans (16:62)
• Hell a prison for those rejecting faith (17:8)
• Disbelievers will burn in hell (17:18)
• God destroys or punishes a population (17:58)
• Intentionally preventing disbelievers from understanding Quran (17:45-46)
• It is God who causes people to err and He punishes them for that (17:97)
• Increases the fierceness of the fire (17:98)
• Terrible punishment for disbelievers (18:2)
• Fire like walls, roofs, waterlike melted brass to drink (18:29)
• Sinners will not find a way to escape fire (18:53)
• A veil put on heart (18:57)
• Hell as entertainment for disbelievers.(18:102)
• Those rejecting prayers face destruction (19:59)
• Disbelievers brought on their knees round hell (19:68, 72)
• Disbelievers will be burnt (19:70)
• Torment of hell (44:43-58)
• Sadistic punishment (56:42-43)
• When you meet non-believers smite the neck of non-believers (47:4)
• Severe punishment for non-believers (22:19-22, 72:23, 98:6)
christianblood says
There is NO sense of humanity in Islam. There is only hate, beheading, stoning, religious genocide, sexual slavery, child marriage, terrorism, discrimination, religious supremacism, violent jihadist activities and hateful warmongering! Islam is an evil, satanic cult full of hatred, ignorance, spiritual darkness, violence, crucifixions, burning-people-alive, amputations, stoning, beheading, flogging pple to death, suicide-bombing, wickedness, mass murder, honor-killing, throwing victims off high buildings, barbarism, cruelty, extreme brutality, wickedness, supremacism, bloodshed, jihad, assassinations, wife-beating, false beliefs, demonic practices, female genital mutilation, jealousy and death. islam and those who practice its evil, satanic teachings are the purest forms of evil on planet Earth.
gravenimage says
True, Mortimer and christianblood.
Walter Sieruk says
That Roman Catholic Cardinal Theodore Carrick would put the Qu ‘ran in with the Bible as is something that rather amazing. He being a man of his obvious higher education and likewise man of his age who has ,no doubt, traveled much and read much would come out and be so ignorant to praise the Qu’ran and even lump the Qu ‘ran and the Bible together ,in any way.
If this Cardinal when he said about the Q ‘ran showing in the “great sense of what men can do”. Well. that much may be true which is that this ‘holy book” of Islam had inspired men commit terrible “great” evils in the world , that must the Qu ran has had accomplished .
For example ,the Qu’ ran, being the whole and entire foundation of Islam has inspired men who are Muslims to create that brutal cruel violent and murderous jihad entity known as ISIS.The fiendish and heinous jihadists of ISIS t based their violent and murderous behavior on the instruction of violence and killing that is found in the Koran Sura 2:191. 4:89; 5:33. 9:5, 111,123. 47:4. For a more full understanding of the actual nature of the Koran a person need to look back in time before the coming of Muhammad and then the Koran. Back to the First Century AD which was the time of early Christian church. For the Early Christian Church had and now in modern times the Christian church still has the Gospel of Christ, First Corinthians 15:1-4. Much later, in time, came Muhammad and he gave much information, that many believe to be divine, some of which is said to have been obtained from an angle from heaven. This information was written down on different objects and things Those written words in different objects was then compiled together and then eventually went into the composition of what is now called the Koran, As some also call it the Qur’an. The Koran is actually, that is in reality, another gospel, apart and greatly different from the Gospel of the Christian Church. Such a thing was predicted in the Bible. For the Bible does warn about those who will come and offer to people another gospel other than the one shown above, First Corinthians 15:1-4. For it is warned about any other “gospel” in the Bible. For it is written in the Bible “Though we or an angle from heaven preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so I say now again, if any man preaches any other gospel unto you than ye have received, let him be accursed.” Galatians 1:8, 9. [K.J.V.] Therefore, the Koran is the result of the deception of a false prophet, Mathew 7:15., who may have come in contact with a fallen angle, a demon, So the imams and mullahs who preach it a truth to other are accused of and by God.
Walter Sieruk says
In.spite of all this Cardinal having a higher education he ,nevertheless , had the gall to mention the Bible and the Qu ‘ran together in the same sentence of praise.
For the way for a person to discover the truth concerning the nature of Jesus is found in the Bible verse Isaiah 8:20. This instructs “To the law of the testimony. If they do not speak according to the word, it is because there is no light in them.” [N.K.J.V.] In other words, if a religious teacher has teaching that are in contradiction to the Word, the Bible, then that teachers is a false teacher who teaches false doctrines. The Muslim clerics, as the imam and mullahs, teach and speak doctrines about God from the Quran .
As the Quran in 112 teaches “He is God alone: God is the eternal begetteth not…” Likewise, this religious book which is the entire foundation of and for Islam further teaches in 19:35. “It is not befitting to God that He should beget a son.” In great contrast the Bible teaches in John 1:14. “The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory , the glory of the only begotten of the Father ,full of grace and truth.” Likewise John 3:16 teaches “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son… Then just a little further in verse 18 it is written about Jesus Who is “the only begotten Son of God. “ Other places in the Bible further teach that Jesus is the Son of God as in Matthew 16:15:16. Luke 1:35. John 3:36. First John 4:14. 15. 5:14,15. Moreover to be even more clear the Bible teaches that Jesus is the Son of God, Who is God the Father. As found in Matthew 3:16,17. First John 2:22,23. 4:14,15. Of course , it ,very much, needs to made even more specific . The Bible teaches that Jesus is also God the Son. As seen in Hebrew1:8 and First John 5:20. The imams and mullahs as well as the other apologists for Islam will try to “explain” this all away. As in they will try brush off all those Bible verse off by making the claim that the Bible had been corrupted, through time, by Christians and that’s why the Bible reads as it does. That claim they make actually underestimate the Power of God to protect and keep His Word safe and intact ,through time, and away from the corruption of men.
In conclusion ,with the above instruction of the way to find doctrinal truth in Isaiah 8:20 and in the light of the Bible verse provided it may be clearly seen, by all those who are willing to see, that Islam is in terrible doctrinal error and it is therefore a false religion, Proverbs 14:12. John 14:6.
Joe says
He probably knows all of that, but he is a liar. Sexual sins are not the only ones. In Catholic theology, you can’t have an item specific problem. Moral rot decomposes all parts of the person without distinction. That is why we measure a theologian more by his holiness than his brain.
gravenimage says
Cardinal McCarrick seems woefully lacking in both departments.
AnneCrockett says
For that matter, has McCarrick ever actually read the Bible?
Spiro says
I don’t he read either Koran or Bible
Just another spineless progress who doesn’t understand what he thinks he knows
Inclusive until your lost
le mouron rouge says
The Roman Catholic Church places Tradition over the Bible.
A couple points of view:
http://www.teachingtheword.org/apps/articles/?articleid=64854&blogid=5444
https://carm.org/roman-catholicism-bible-and-tradition
Also the RCC demands blind obedience:
“We ought to hold as a fixed principle that what I see white I believe to be black, if the superior authorities of the Church define it to be so.”
– Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556)
“If the holy Church so requires, let us sacrifice our own opinions, our knowledge, our intelligence, the splendid dreams of our imagination, and the most sublime attainments of the human understanding.”
– Pope Gregory XVI in his Encyclical of the 15th of August 1832.
gravenimage says
Lots of Catholics read the Bible–Robert Spencer has been a Catholic for many years, and he is a Biblical scholar. He has also been critical of the current pope and many of the clergy, like this moral idiot. It is not the case that devout Catholics are blindly obedient to everyone in the Church hierarchy.
le mouron rouge says
gravenimage,
We have been over this ground several times in the past.
I am fully aware that Robert Spencer is a Catholic, as I’m also aware, that he is “not” a Roman Catholic.
It is the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church that is in question, not the laity. It’s the so called “leadership” of the Church of Rome and it’s corruption that is being criticized.
What we are witnessing in the RCC is nothing new. The late Malachi Martin, a former Jesuit, was an outspoken critic of the RCC and the corruption therein. His novel, Windswept House was an attempt to bring to light the evil that was taking place in the Church of Rome.
Interestingly, Malachi Martin died in 1999 under mysterious circumstances, 3 years after Windswept House was published.
The RCC claims that the Pope and the Magisterium are “infallible” in matters of Faith and Morals. Therefore, a person cannot be a “devout Roman Catholic” if they do not adhere to the teachings of the RCC in these matters. They either accept the Church’s teachings as “infallible” or they don’t, there isn’t any middle ground.
And that takes us to reading the Bible.
Roman Catholics may read the Bible now, however, that has not always been the case. The Church of Rome teaches that it and only it, can properly interpret the Word of God.
The Bible teaches that Christians are to test the spirits and search the scriptures “daily” to verify that what they are being taught is the Word of God or that of another spirit.
“Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.”
1 John 4:1
And
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
Acts 17:11
As a former Roman Catholic, after studying the Bible, I had a very difficult time reconciling being a “devout Roman Catholic” with the teaching of the RCC and what I read in the Bible.
Case in point is the RCC’s teaching on Mary and especially that she is the Queen of Heaven. The only mention of the Queen of Heaven in the Bible is a pagan goddess found in the book of Jeremiah, Chapters 7:18, 44:17-19 and 44:25.
So, if the Church is wrong on this issue, then what else is it misrepresenting?
L.A. Marzulli has done some research on the apparition that took place at Fatima which seems to dispel what the Church of Rome has taught on this subject.
https://prophecywatchers.com/videos/l-marzulli-fatima-deception/
According to the Barna Research Group approximately 17% of Christians has a Biblical World View.
https://relevantmagazine.com/slice/research-only-17-of-christians-actually-have-a-biblical-worldview/
gravenimage says
le mouron rouge, there certainly was a time when the Catholic laity did not read the Bible–that time is long past.
You are right that Catholicism is not Sola Scriptura–but then, few Protestant denominations are, either.
We could certainly discuss how important this is to the proper practice of Christianity–it is a topic that has been debated for over 2000 years now. This is probably not the time or place, though.
My main point is that whenever there is a story about the Pope or other Catholic clergy acting like dhimmis, some people tend to jump in and imply that the problem is Catholicism itself–even saying things like it being “of the devil”.
I don’t agree with Catholicism on some points myself, but the fact is that before the current era of “political correctness” that the Catholic Church served as a strong bulwark against the threat of Islam for centuries. None of us would be free today if they has not.
Cardinal McCarrick is a creep and a fool–but I don’t believe that either are intrinsic to Catholicism.
Michael Poulin says
No , Tradition does not outrank the Bible.. the Bible itself is a written witness to tradition ( a word that means that which is handed down) .nor does the teaching office of the Church outrank the Scriptures but are servants of them….
– If you knew anything about Catholic teaching you would know that Scripture itself is the primary witness to the Christian tradition handed down since the Apostles…but there was alongside the written gospels and epistles that became the New Testament an oral tradition handed down also….which the Bible itself gives witness to
..
2 Thessalonians 2:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
.
Worshiping the Lord on Sunday would be an example of a Sacred tradition – the writer of Revelation called it “The Lord’s Day” in recognition of the Resurrection..that has been handed down to us…
…
As far as quotes from Saints and Popes, a more discerning Catholic would know that not everything a saint or Pope writes automatically becomes Church doctrine… especially when it conflicts obviously with doctrines taught earlier…
..
No Catholic is bound by “blind obedience” that is simply false. …
..
People are expected to use their God given reason in support of the faith, by comparing what they may hear to Scripture and 2000 years of understanding handed down from the beginning – and as recorded by the earliest Christians themselves … The Church’ job is to hand down the faith as taught by the Lord for centuries – they can refine and develop the definitions and clarify, but no changes can be made (even though many have tried and are trying)
…and nobody in the Catholic Church or anywhere else has to obey a sinful act. just like child is born to accept the authority of his parent in everything – except sin…
…
le mouron rouge says
Michael Poulin,
No Catholic is bound by “blind obedience” that is simply false. …
**********************
According to the Roman Catholic Church, Mary is the Queen of Heaven, where is that stated in the Bible?
James Whitney says
le mouron rouge,
Revelation 12:1-2 “A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth.” Even though the characters in Chapter 12 are symbolic to some groups of people, they are also specific people. The woman with the male child, and the crown of twelve stars, is Mary.
As another consideration of the importance of Mary, we look at Luke’s passage of Mary’s visitation to Elizabeth, specifically versus 1:46 -50, referred to as the “Canticle of Mary,” also known as the “Magnificat.” More specifically, consider this segment of verse 1:48-49, “… behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed. The mighty One has done great things for me and holy is his name.”
These two passages, along with recognition of the importance of Mary as the Mother of Jesus, are instrumental to the Church’s teaching on Mary as “Queen of heaven and earth.” There are also some other considerations that support this tradition. For more detailed information, I suggest reading “Rome Sweet Home” by Scott and Kimberly Hahn, both converts to the Catholic Church.
le mouron rouge says
James Whitney,
Thank you for taking the time to comment, however, based on information provided by many Bible scholars, such as:
Robert Congdon, John Ankerberg, Billy Crone, Dr. Jimmy DeYoung, Gary Frazier, Arnold Fruchtenbaum, Ed Hindson, Mark Hitchcock, David Hocking, Tom Horn, Brannon Howse, Tommy Ice, Robert Jeffress, Jerry B. Jenkins, David Jeremiah, Gary Kah, Bill Koenig, Hal Lindsay, Paul McGuire, John MacArthur, Jan Markell, Dr. David Reagan, Dr. Ron Rhodes, Joel Rosenberg, the late Dave Breese, Ray Brubaker, J.R. Church, Grant R. Jeffrey, Dave Hunt, Noah Hutchings, Jack Kelly, Jack Kinsella, Tim LaHaye, Zola Levitt, J. Vernon McGee, Chuck Missler and John Walvoord.
I do not accept the Roman Catholic teaching that Revelation 12:1-2 represents Mary. According to the above scholars and those not listed, that passage represents the nation of Israel.
As for the mention of Mary in the book of Luke, Mary declares in 1:47 “And my spirit hath rejoiced in God MY SAVIOR.” (Emphasis added)
If, as taught, by the Roman Catholic Church that Mary was born without sin, (The Immaculate Conception) and remained sinless throughout her life, why is she calling God her Savior?
gravenimage says
Good post, Michael.
James Whitney says
le mouron rouge,
Obviously, there is a disagreement between the Catholic and Protestant interpretation of this passage. The following quote from Father William Saunders in The Catholic Exchange well expresses the Catholic interpretation.
“Since the time of the early Church Fathers, this image of the woman has had a three-fold symbolism: the ancient people of Israel, the Church and the Blessed Mother.
However, the fullness of the image is the Blessed Mother, for she fulfills the prophecies regarding the coming of the Messiah, and she is the Mother of the Church.”
There is much more detail in Father Saunders’s explanation that is too lengthy to present here.
Regarding your question concerning the teaching on the Immaculate Conception a partial answer can be quickly obtained by quoting the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
490. To become the mother of the Savior, Mary was enriched by God with gifts appropriate to such a role. The angel Gabriel at the moment of the annunciation salutes her as “full of grace.” In fact, in order for Mary to be able to give the free assent of her faith announcement of her vocation, it was necessary that she be wholly borne by God’s grace.
491. Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary “full of grace” through God, was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius proclaimed in 1854:
“The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin.”
492. The splendor of an entirely unique holiness” by which Mary is enriched from the first instant of her conception comes wholly from Christ: she is redeemed, in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son. The Father blessed Mary more than any other created person in Christ before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless before him in love.
In short, the Catholic Church teaches that Mary, by receiving the merits of Jesus’ crucifixion, given in advance, was conceived without original sin. The concept of the Immaculate Conception has also been argued from the basis of reason. In particular, it is argued that the flesh from which the Son of God was to be formed should be completely free from any form of sin.
Although the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception was defined by Pope Pius IX in 1854, discussion on the concept of Mary being conceived without original sin can be traced back to the 5th century.
Although much more could be said, and discussed, concerning these two topics, I feel we are getting far off from the original topic of Cardinal McCarrick’s comment about the Koran being a holy book. My comment in that regard is that Cardinal McCarrick knows very little about the fundamentals of Islam. In particular, as well documented by Robert Spencer, Islam, as handed down by Muhammed through the Koran and Hadiths, is not a religion of peace. This is not an overall condemnation of Muslims, as there are many levels of specific beliefs within the Muslim community with respect to Islam.
le mouron rouge says
James,
Thank you again for the reply, however, what I am asking if for proof from the Bible that substantiates the Church’s teaching on Mary. Anything other than that is of no value to me.
The Bible has over 300 prophecies for the 1st coming of Christ – http://www.accordingtothescriptures.org/prophecy/353prophecies.html
If Mary is who the Church claims she is – where is the Biblical proof?
James Whitney says
Let me ask you a question. Where in the Bible does it say that scripture is the only source of faith?
Carol the 1st says
Robert Spencer discusses his Catholicism in this video with David Wood. He was born an Orthodox Catholic but around university age he became a Roman Catholic. Over time, however (and it seems largely due to its incongruous attitude toward Islam), Robert left it and returned to Orthodox Catholicism. The section runs from 40:30 to 47:50:
Live With Robert Spencer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvmGvMZ9ZaU
Robert Spencer says
No, I was never a Roman Catholic. I was baptized Orthodox, became a Melkite Greek Catholic, and more recently returned to Orthodoxy.
James Whitney says
Thanks, Robert for the clarification!
Giacomo Latta says
The Roman Catholic church is a privately-run corporate entity. It will defend itself more vigourously than it will defend values of any kind. Enron will defend values before the RC church will.
lagitane says
This jerk is lecturing us about humanity? He should be in prison and not giving interviews like this. The Catholic Church is rife with child molestation and I am disgusted at the tradition in which I was raised. A male relative of mine was molested for many years as a child by a priest and it almost ruined his life. When his mom is gone, the family is going after that priest. The mother is in total denial. All of these pedophiles must be rooted out NOW. And Dope Francis has to go immediately!
mortimer says
‘HUMANITY’ is not part of Islam, because Islam divides the world between believers and disbelievers whom Muslims must 1) subjugate and enslave 2) tax or 3) exterminate for their unbelief.
The only Muslims who are trying to do that are the jihadists. The jihadists are the only Muslims how are practicing ALL of Islam.
Renate says
Why would anyone want to hear anything that man had to say? Does anyone really care what he thinks of anything?
Benedict says
After being a sex pervert and homosexual his entire religious life, he now trying to save his skin by quoting from a dubious text which is responsible for so much harm to humankind. Stupid man he needs to make his peace with Holy God. There is not much time left, instead to talking rubbish, which by the way no one believes. He has brought disgrace to the Holy Church, and I doubt whether the Good Lord will ever forgive him
lebel says
Here’s something that I don’t understand. People like Robert Spencer believe that the bible is the word of God. They have read the Old Testament and have come across similar if not much worse writings. Yet somehow they are able to convince themselves that it’s only bad when it’s in the Qu’ran.
I know about the argument that the Old Testament has no relevance, and no one believes in it anymore etc. (which is not true by the way) while the Qu’ran is forever and valid for all time. I am not talking about that, I am talking about the verses in and of themselves.
gravenimage says
As lebel obviously knows, the Old Testament (Torah) is descriptive, *not* presciptive.
Whatever one thinks of the stories in the Old Testament, Jews and Christians are not told to seek out and confront, say, the Amalekites. This might be a bit difficult, in any case, even if they were so inclined, since this appears to have been a small tribe in ancient Israel. In fact, many historians and archaeologists doubt that they existed at all, and consider these stories entirely mythological.
Nowhere today are Jews ad Christians attacking people on the basis of the Old Testament, as lebel is trying to imply.
However, the Qur’an *does* teach that Muslims are to seek out, persecute, attack, and conquer Infidels. There are plenty of non-Muslims in the world today. The 33,000+ Jihad terror attacks just since 9/11 show that pious Muslims take these injunctions *very* seriously.
le mouron rouge says
gravenimage,
As always, I appreciate your comments. May offer a clarification?
What we, the gentiles, call the Old Testament the Jews call the Tanakh.
The Torah is the first 5 books of the Tanakh (Old Testament) that were written by Moses.
Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-tanakh-full-text
gravenimage says
You are right about the distinction between the Torah and the Tanakh as a whole, le mouron rouge. Thanks for the clarification. Sorry; sloppy on my part.
CogitoErgoSum says
All good things come to man through the divinity of Jesus, the Christ of the Bible. Muhammad and the Quran deny the divinity of Jesus. Both Old and New Testament point to Jesus as being the Son of God and as one with the Father and Holy Spirit. The Quran denies the truth of the divinity of Jesus and shows Muhammad was not even aware of the existence of the Holy Spirit. Instead, Mary is presented as a part of the Holy Trinity. In no way could a Christian accept Muhammad as being a prophet who brought to mankind the word of God. Muhammad was a liar and nothing in the Quran is to be trusted as the truth. The Old Testament is fulfilled with the death and resurrection of Christ and both Old and New Testament are made good for all time. The Quran condemns itself through the denial of Christ as the Son of God and makes itself bad … for all time.
Wellington says
Being the agnostic and complete skeptic that I am, Lebel, I’m no fan of the violence condoned in the Old Testament. Frankly, I think it self-serving. But, as gravenimage noted in her 2:45 P.M. post above, the OT is so very often merely descriptive while the Koran is always prescriptive,
Here’s something else to consider: Respecting the specific matter of real estate, the violence condoned in the OT is for the Jews to sequester an area of land about the size of Maryland (some 11,000 square miles) while the violence condoned in the Koran is to conquer every last God-damned acre on the face of the earth—you know, the rot about dar-al-Islam v, dar-al-harb. HUGE DIFFERENCE, Lebel.
Even you should be able to grasp this enormously important quantitative distinction. And why, Lebel, Jews (Christians too) are not the enormous menace to mankind that Islam is. Think real estate here, Lebel. Yeah, the “amount difference” between the OT and that most wretched of religious works, the Koran, is a “key factor” lost on many. Including you it seems.
lebel says
@Wellington, Lets agree that the Old Testament’s calls for violence and all other nasty things are mostly for a specific time and place and not really followed anymore (while for Islam it is not the case).
Now say that I am Robert Spencer and I believe that I follow a God of love. Should I not be a little put off by reading the Old Testament? I mean the Old Testament is very similar to the Quran but RS does not seem to see any evil in the former. Again I am talking about the verses in and of themselves. For you it would be different since you appear to be an atheist.
gravenimage says
So the best that lebel can come with is the implication that Christians who believe in a God of love may find parts of the Old Testament a tad off putting and hence pay it little attention?
Meanwhile, lebel regularly ignores the sanguinary horrors of Islam on display here ever day, as Muslims fervently put the diktats of their vicious creed into action.
lebel’s false moral equivalency is absurd.
To use another Biblical phrase, “by their fruits you shall know them”.
Wellington says
First of all, Lebel, I am not an atheist; I am an agnostic.
Second, I don’t speak for Robert Spencer, rather Robert Spencer does.
Third, the OT has some violence condoned in and for a very past time and for a very limited amount of land and thus this does not directly impact on our world of today (minus, of course, the hatred for Israel by the Islamic world; Israel constituting a nation not even the size of Belgium and not even 1/100th the size of Saudi Arabia), contra the Koran which has a prescription for violence for all time written all over its pages—some 33,000 documented Islamic terrorist attacks worldwide just since 9/11 tending to partially prove this bitter point of mine.
Fourth, and lastly, again we see a pathetic attempt (this time by you) to engage in equivalency thinking between Old Testament violence and Koranic instructions for violence (N.B., there is no violence condoned in the New Testament). If this is all you have, give it up. Meanwhile, I will await religious Jews stoning adulteresses, killing Philistines, etc., at the same rate that Muslims daily across the world engage in violence in the name of their creed. Really, Lebel, do you begin to see why any defense of Islam fails from the get-go? Hopefully you do, but frankly I won’t, I can’t, bank on hope where you are concerned much at all.
gravenimage says
+1
mortimer says
Lebel uses the standard TU QUOQUE argument that most Muslims use. It is fallacious and thus NOT an argument.
Both the Bible and Koran may be morally in error if they call for BIGOTED KILLING on the basis of BELIEF.
BOTH books may be WRONG. That is the gist of the TU QUOQUE counterargument.
Islam fails, Lebel, because it cannot be DEFENDED by a MORAL or ETHICAL ARGUMENT, because ISLAM IS AMORAL.
Allah is AMORAL. Therefore, Allah cannot be the creator of a moral universe and should therefore be dismissed as a confabulation of 7th century and 8th century AMORAL WAR LORDS.
gravenimage says
Good post, Wellington.
le mouron rouge says
Wellington and gravenimage,
Excellent commentary.
I think it was Augustine who said, “It is not the scriptures that are in error but my understanding of them.”
gravenimage says
Thank you, le mouron rouge.
FYI says
According to the koran,allah claims to have written the Bible
“he revealed the Torah and the Gospel” koran 3:3
allah claims the koran confirms what is in the Bible.
It doesn’t.
allah tells muhammed in koran 10.94 that if he is in doubt ,he is to “read the scripture that was before thee”{i.e the Bible}
What’s in the Bible?The Torah+the Gospel
What’s in the Torah?God’s COMMANDMENTS EXODUS 20 v 1-17
{thou shalt not kill etc}
Do allah’s teachings in the koran confirm to these laws?No!
allah says,in total violation of God’s COMMANDMENTS which DEFEATS THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THE TORAH.. that you can
murder k2:191
commit adultery k4:24/k33:50
steal k48:20
lie k3:28 Taqqiya etc
allah denies everything Jesus Christ taught in the Gospel{which alalh claims to have written..}including{..hilariously..} the origin of Biblical prophecy koran 4:171.allah reveals that he doesn’t know …since he dismisses that aspect of God{revealed by Jesus in the Gospel which REMEMBER allah claims to have written!}through which Biblical prophecy comes{it is explained in 2 peter 1 v 20-21}
allah claims to have written both the Torah and the Gospel but his koran does NOT confirm the Bible:it denies and contradicts it.
koran 3:3 is a false statement:along with allah’s EPIC theology fails,it demolishes the nonsense of the koran being the “perfect” book without error.
muslim can’t see it of course.
christianblood says
lebel
Violence in the Old Testament is descriptive.
Violence in the Quran & Hadith is prescriptive. A big difference!
lebel says
Hello Christianblood. Fine, but what about the writings in and of themselves? do they describe a violent bloodthirsty God? They are undeniably very similar to what is in the Quran.
mgoldberg says
No…. but then you’re not very discriminating as a reader.
The ‘wrathful’ G-d hates the evil and the sin, and it’s different than the evil and the sin of ‘allah’ and mohammed. There are vast differences. they are demonstrated by the fact that Islams conquering of all others is forever, everywhere, for all time. All this has been discussed here multiple times. There are so many qualitative and quantitative differencenses that it is only people who ignore all of that ask the same question- about a violent bloodthirsty god in the Torah.
Projection…. examine your motives
Projection….
That’s all your doing.
Doesn’t that remotely bother you??
Hugh Fitzgerald says
Where, prithee, does Robert Spencer declare that the Bible is the Word of God? I’ve looked up hill and down dale, and cannot find conclusive evidence.
lebel says
It’s a pretty safe assumption that a fervent catholic believes the bible is the word of God.
You make quite a few assumptions yourself, but of course only about the Muslims you despise so much:
““The key here is that a Muslim who calls himself a Muslim thereby signals to us that he believes certain things, in the Total Belief-System of Islam, or at least that those things which Islam inculcates do not so thoroughly dismay or disgust him that he has decided to no longer call himself a Muslim. One can understand why, in a Muslim-dominated land, those who are disaffected from Islam might not wish to draw attention to this, for they know that they can be killed, or their interests severely harmed, and their lives ruined, if they openly declare that they are no longer Muslims. But what about Muslims living in the West, in conditions of far greater safety? If they continue to call themselves Muslims, then it is not unfair to attribute to them agreement with, or not deep disagreement with, what is contained in the Qur’an and the Hadith and the Sira. ”
http://www.jihadwatch.org/…/fitzgerald-joe-stack-nihad-awad-andrew-sullivan-and-terrorism.html –
Putting that aside. Any opinions on the nastiness found in the Old Testament or Talmud Mr. Fitzgerald? yes I know, it’s all prescriptive (except when it’s used to justify land grab) but come on, surely the killing of babies ordered by Yawve were evil deeds, the stonings, the rapes. How could anyone see these books as holy and what are not disgusted by those who continue to view such books in any positive light?
Hugh Fitzgerald says
I was unaware that Robert Spencer is, as you insist, a “fervent Catholic believer.”
Calais Israeli says
Land grab? Isra-el is G-d’s. He took the most powerless rag tag group of souls (the Jews) to secure it. Proof that it was His hand that secured the land. The Greek ‘ekklesia’ G-d sets apart his people from all others. When you fight Isra-el, you fight the Almighty. And I pray the Muslims continue to seek their demise.
gravenimage says
Good point, Hugh.
StellaSaidSo says
Indeed, Robert is no longer a Roman Catholic at all. I understand that he has moved to the eastern church.
gravenimage says
This is true, Stella. Robert Spencer now belongs to one of the orthodox denominations.
James Whitney says
Robert is a member of the Melkite (Greek) Catholic Church, which is an Eastern Rite Catholic Church in full communion with Rome.
gravenimage says
James Whitney, this was indeed true until quite recently. Robert Spencer mentions his changing churches in passing in this conversation with David Wood:
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2018/07/video-david-wood-and-robert-spencer-discuss-why-its-crucial-for-people-today-to-know-the-history-of-jihad
James Whitney says
Gravenimage,
I watched Robert’s interview with David Wood. It appears that Robert was, until recently, a member of the Roman Catholic Church. After being rudely treated by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops’ concerning his refusal to recognize Islam as a religion of peace, he switched to the “Orthodox Church.” The term “Orthodox” has a broad meaning. According to Wikipedia, Robert belongs to the Melkite Greek Catholic Church, which is a counterpart of the ancient Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch, and is under the leadership of a Patriarch. However, the Church is in communion with Rome., which indicates that they both share the same deposit of faith, but with different liturgies and hierarchies.
gravenimage says
Your interpretation may be possibly be correct, James. Since the change was recent–and Robert Spencer had long identified as Melkite Greek Catholic, I assumed that he had changed to some Orthodox denomination.
Even though the Greek Melkite Church is indeed “Eastern rites” and had links two hundred years ago to the Greek Orthodox Church, I don’t think the Church actually considers itself an Orthodox denomination.
I could be wrong, however.
gravenimage says
And James, I don’t think that Robert Spencer was ever a member of the mainstream Roman Catholic Church.
Robert Spencer says
James, I never was a Roman Catholic.
Luther says
All these careerists in the church have one thing in common: they reject authentic Christianity. McCarrick, May, the perv archbishop of LA — all have been in the radar of The Wanderer and other real Catholics for DECADES. no shock here.
jewdog says
I assume he abused little boys, in which case he would be killed as per Sharia. If it was little girls he’d be okay.
gravenimage says
Most Muslims wink at the abuse of young boys, or practice it themselves. They are also generally fine with homosexual rape intended to humiliate.
What Muslims truly hate are equitable same sex relationships between consenting adults. These are the cases where they stone gay people to death, or throw them off tall buildings.
jewdog says
Thanks for the clarification. Makes sense in that I’ve read a lot about acceptable pedophilia in Afghanistan.
gravenimage says
Thanks, jewdog.
James Lincoln says
Japetto Danatelli, a Jihad watch reader and poster, mentioned one time that he was “running with an 11th grade education”.
He has taken the time, however, to educate himself about the topics discussed at Jihad Watch, and his posts add value to the discussion. Education does not necessarily have to be “formal”.
In contrast, it seems to me that Cardinal McCarrick had spent a lot of time in college, seminary, etc. just to get stupid.
gravenimage says
+1
Most of us here are self-educated when it comes to Islam. It is not that difficult to research.
le mouron rouge says
James Lincoln says,
n contrast, it seems to me that Cardinal McCarrick had spent a lot of time in college, seminary, etc. just to get stupid.
*************************
So very accurate, Dennis Prager would be in full agreement with you. http://www.dennisprager.com/
mortimer says
Farm-fresh and fragrant, Cardinal McCarrick’s nonsense smells like… what farmers spread on their fields. NO! The bigoted hatred of disbelieving KAFIRS is the basic thrust of Islam.
McCarrick could not possibly have READ and STUDIED the Koran, hadiths and Sira … the Islamic Trilogy which is mainly about THE SOLUTION TO THE KAFIR PROBLEM … nor could he have studied the LIFE OF MOHAMMED, the ROLE MODEL of all jihadists.
Cardinal McCarrick simply has not read and studied what he purports to know… thus he does NOT know it. He is guessing and making up what he wants to be true.
Here are some FACTS for McCarrick to consider …
What are the hard facts about the Islamic source texts?
– 14% of Islam is about Allah
– 86% of Islam is about Mohammed
– 64% Meccan Koran
– 36% Medinan Koran
– 800 pages in Sira
– 9,597 hadiths (Sahih Bukhari – 7,397 hadiths + Sahih Muslim – 2,200 hadiths)
– 77,934 words in Arabic Koran according to Imam Jalaluddin Al-Suyuti
– 6,236 verses in Koran (or 6204 or 6203)
– 14% of textual doctrine in Koran
– 25% of textual doctrine in Sira
– 60% of textual doctrine in hadiths
– 14% of Islamic text is about Allah
– 86% of Islamic text is about Mohammed
– 1,069,064 words in Trilogy: Sira, Koran and hadiths
– 64% of Koran devoted to Kafir
– 81% of Sira devoted to Kafir
– 37% of hadiths devoted to Kafir
– 60% of Trilogy total devoted to Kafir
– 0% of Meccan Koran is jihad
– 24% of Medinan Koran is jihad
– 67% of Sira is jihad
– 21% of hadiths is jihad
– 31% of Trilogy is jihad
– 9.3% of Trilogy is devoted to Jew hatred
– 7% of Mein Kampf is Jew hatred
– 1% of Meccan Koran is Jew hatred
– 17% of Medinana Koran is Jew hatred
– 8.9% of hadiths are Jew hatred
– 12% of Sira is Jew hatred
– 9.3% of Trilogy is Jew hatred
– 7% of Mein Kampf is hatred.
– 150 followers after 13 years in Mecca as a religious preacher
– 11 new followers per year when Islam was a tolerant religion
– 100,000 followers after 10 years in Medina as head of a political empire
– 10,000 new members per year in last 9 years of Mohammed’s life after intolerant jihad implemented.
– 5% of Koran verses women held in high esteem = as mothers and for obedience
– 23% of Koran verses women are equal = if she obeyed her husband … is that equal?
– 71% of Koran verses women held in low esteem
– GRAND LIE = only one interpretation of Islam … that of Muslims
– Actually there are three contradictory views of Islam: 1) Muslim view is that everything in Islam is perfect 2) Dhimmi view is a whitewash 3) Kafir view of Islam is ‘Islam is tyranny against kafirs’
– Only 2 experts Allah and Mohammed. Everything else is an opinion.
le mouron rouge says
Wow.
I’m suffering from “data overload.”
Very interesting stats.
Would it be accurate to state, that reading Qur’an chronologically, the verses get progressively more confrontational and violent?
gravenimage says
Yes, le mouron rouge–Mortimer is right. For instance, the Medinan verses are overall more violent than the earlier Meccan verses, and the infamous “Sura of the Sword”–Sura 9–is the penultimate verse of the Qur’an.
Discerning this is not helped by the Qur’an being organized not chronologically, but from longest Sura to shortest.
Billy Chickens says
McCarrick’s sexual perversion started when he was 15 years old.
https://lesfemmes-thetruth.blogspot.com/2018/08/from-age-15-mccarrick-was-groomed-for.html
gravenimage says
Disgraced sex abuser Cardinal McCarrick cited “sense of humanity” in “all the holy books. It’s in the Qur’an.”
…………………
What an ignorant fool.
FYI says
Perhaps the very irreverend mccarrick missed the following..which he would know if he bothered to read the Bible..
“If anyone should cause one of these little ones to lose his faith in Me,
It would be better for that man to have a large millstone tied around his neck
and be DROWNED in the deep sea.
How terrible for the world that there are things that make people lose their faith!
Such things will always happen but HOW TERRIBLE for the one who causes them”
Matthew 18 v 6-7
How terrible for any “holy” man to do such a thing:how can they expect Mercy?
How terrible for these Christ-betraying judas iscariot clergymen…no doubt these whited sepulchres think a couple of hail mary’s will absolve them but it is very clear from the warning given by Jesus that it is not as simple as that.For a start,instead of evading Justice,these wretches should be incarcerated.For a long time.
Perhaps francis ,Mr “Who am I to judge?” ,missed the following..
“you should not associate with a person who calls himself a brother but is
immoral,or greedy,or worships idols or is a slanderer,or a drunkard or a thief.
Don’t even sit down to eat with such a person”
1 Corinthians 5 v 11
How much more so should one not associate with a pederast!
“But should you not judge the members of your own fellowship?
As the scripture says..
REMOVE THE EVIL MAN from your group”
1 Corinthians 5 v 13
And what does fradulent frankie do?Does he remove the evil man?
No!He PROMOTES him.Yet it is clear that such immorality is condemned by Jesus Christ and the prescribed penalty is expulsion{not promotion or protection of these culprits like the late Cardinal Bernard Law who was protected by francis and the vatican}
The Apostle of islam,francis,gave us a laughable misreading of the koran{“Authentic islam and a proper reading of the koran show it to be opposed to every form of violence”}
Even the New Testament does not make that claim:i.e is “opposed to every form of violence”!!
Let’s hope francis never gives us a critique of mein kampf..
“Authentic nazism and a proper reading of Rabbi Hitler’s book,shows it to be opposed to every form of antisemitism and violence”
Kepha says
Hate to break the news to you, Mr. McCarrick, but I find a sense of humanity even in Hitler’s _Mein Kampf_ and Mao’s little red book. After all, flies and snakes can’t write. What I really want is a book that shows me the divine–and that is the Bible, containing the Old and New Testaments.
And, speaking as a Christian who thinks the Old Testament is still, in very many ways, ethically and doctrinally relevant, noting that the New Testament quotes it right and left, I’m not ashamed of the violent passages. The command given to Israel to exterminate the Amorites, Hittites, Canaanites, Girgashites, Hivites, Perizzites, and Jebusites (as well as Amalek) was not given until the sins of those nations was full (see God’s promise of a land to Abraham), and came with a warning that should Israel fall into the same abominations, Israel would also be cast out of the land. The Former Prophets clearly show us how Israel failed to heed God and went after the ways of Canaan (sacrifice of firstborn to heathen gods, for starters); so God brought the Assyrians and Babylonians down on them. This stands as a warning that God is judge over nations as well as individuals; and that nation that flouts the moral law of God is in very grave danger.
We have gone over the bloody parts of the Qur’an more than I can count; and I’m sold on that argument. But I cannot see in the Qur’an any humility; contrasting the Qur’an’s telling Muslims they are the “best of men” with the Torah’s reminder to the Israelites that it’s God’s love rather than their own righteousness that gives them a land, Jeremiah’s instruction to the exiles to pray and work for the shalom of the city to which they are exiled, and the New Testament’s admonition that Christians are, as far as it is up to them, seek peace with all men.
As for the Old Testament seeing homosexuality as an abomination (about a chapter away from where it teaches us to love our neighbors as ourselves in Leviticus) and the New seeing homosexuality as the corrupt fruit of idolatry (in Romans), well ain’t that too d–d bad for our present-day sensibilities, into which people like McCarrick have bought and acted upon. As for the call in the Torah to stone the rebellious and incorrigible son, maybe, if that were acted upon a few times, parents wouldn’t have problems getting their kids to eat their broccoli. On a serious note, uncorrected kids are one reason why we don’t have safe schools, no matter how many czars presidents appoint. I boycott pop culture because it glorifies the rebellious young troublemaker and treats adultery as a joke–and our entertainment-drunk “smart folks” wonder why the American family is now a mess. Frankly, our society’s failure to take warning from the scary parts of the Bible and its preference for credentialed fools who say there’s no such thing as sin may be one reason why we are being led by people who make us a prey for an Islam which, unaided, has produced nothing but slums surrounded by desert wherever it has gone.
I know I have said in this forum that I believe that the risen Jesus’ Great Commission to make disciples of all nations gives us a hope that no nation is so depraved that it needs to be handled the way the Seven Nations of Canaan were; that God will call out His elect wherever the Gospel is faithfully preached. I have long believed that there will be salt and light in all societies. But I confess that people like McCarrick and other progressive clergy are sorely testing my belief that this is so. Our civilization has reaped great benefits from honoring the Messiah presented in the Old and New Testaments; and now we’re throwing it out and seeking the approval of those who call good evil and evil good. The end result cannot be good.
I see clergy of many denominations bowing to the spirit of Sodom and Gomorrah while at the same time falling over each other to find worth in that garbled piece of blasphemy called the Qur’an (when they have despised the Bible for a long time). This makes me wonder if the salt hasn’t lost its savor, and now is good for nothing but to be cast out and trampled under foot (those are Jesus’ own words in the Sermon on the Mount, which my much younger self was once erroneously taught was the sweetest and lightest part of the whole New Testament). My chief consolation in this state of affairs is Paul’s teaching that God is true, even if every man is a liar.
Then again, the McCarricks are the end result of too many churches reducing Scripture to “the prettier passages of the Psalms”; plus a handful of New Testament quotes taken out of context. They are also the product of centuries that thought cheap shots against “organized religion” were wise (I guess they like chaotic religion better; except when it starts infecting religions like Marxism, Freudianism, and Evolutionary Materialism). God, send us repentance!
abad says
McCarrick would make an awesome Moslem, what with his paedophilia ways.
Charles Martel says
They will try his torso also in the name of qua-ran’ sense of humanity.
duh swami says
Several years ago I heard an interview on the radio, with a woman who claimed to know ‘everything/ going on in the Vatican…
She said that the anti-Christ was now living in the Vatican, he got in through a ‘fissure’…
That sounds plausible, doesn’t it?
duh swami says
‘All religions are good’…
The body count defeats that idea, doesn’t it?
ibrahim itace muhammed says
The cardinal acted exactly what mithraist Bible teaches in Samuel 15:3 and other verses and practiced by churchmen, which is to kill all those living with exception of little girls to be kept as sex slaves. presently the churchmen have been having anus and vaginal sex with kids under their care pursuant to those teachings. Quoting this cardinal lauding the virtues of Islam does’nt mean that he developed his habits from Islam. Islam never condones child abuse. According to sharia it is not permissible to have sex with girl bellow puberty and homosexuality is abominable punishable with death.It beyond dispute that Aisha reached puberty before the holy Prophet Muhammad consumated marriage with her and her age as 9 was found to be a mistake by reporter ,it was actually 19.
so, Mr spencer has to accept this cardinal as complying with what mithraist christian Bible teaches, not ranting with his usual irrelevant reference to Quranic verses. It will not help.
duh swami says
Why do people need to follow, take advice, and orders from, dead people?
The Bible was written by nameless faceless dead people who were not even at the events they were describing…The Quran was dictated Mohammad by a half dead space alien named Gabriel…Mohammad is also dead….I prefer the auto repair manual, it never lies and will help you out of a car jam when God will not…
Carolyne says
Duh swami—- Bravo. Give me that auto repair manual anytime. You are right. The authors of the Bible were not witnesses. Some dude named Athanasius determined which books would be included in the New Testament around the year 350 CE. Most of these books were written at least 100 years after the fact. I throw in”CE” because “Common Era” is the phrase most commonly (!) Used by students of history these days and not AD. But there are those who believe that an actual G-d who hates vowels took pen in hand and wrote it. This,of course, was before the advent of computers.
Giacomo Latta says
Not 9 but actually 19? Yuk yaw!
gravenimage says
ibrahim itace muhammed wrote:
The cardinal acted exactly what mithraist Bible teaches in Samuel 15:3 and other verses and practiced by churchmen, which is to kill all those living with exception of little girls to be kept as sex slaves. presently the churchmen have been having anus and vaginal sex with kids under their care pursuant to those teachings.
………………………….
What tripe. No pedophile in the West has ever cited these verses as their reason for abusing children.
But Muslims *constantly* cite the “Prophet’s” marrying little Aisha at six and deflowering her at nine to condone their having sex with children. In fact, Ibrahim itace muhammed *himself* has done this.
Christians and other Westerners hide such crimes; they are *illegal* here in the civilized West.
But in Islam Muslims practice them openly, on the model of the “Prophet”. In many parts of Dar-al-Islam, child marriage is legal, and practiced even by Islamic clergy:
“Iran: Muslim clerics oppose raising girls’ age of marriage eligibility from nine”
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/08/iran-muslim-clerics-oppose-raising-girls-age-of-marriage-eligibility-from-nine
“Muslim professor: ‘Islam has no age barrier in marriage and Muslims have no apology for those who refuse to accept this’”
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/03/muslim-professor-islam-has-no-age-barrier-in-marriage-and-muslims-have-no-apology-for-those-who-refuse-to-accept-this
There are hundreds more such grim stories. How did all of these Muslim scholars miss Aisha supposedly being nineteen? sarc/off
More:
Quoting this cardinal lauding the virtues of Islam does’nt mean that he developed his habits from Islam.
………………………….
No one said this pedophile got his habits from Islam–just that this shows the kind of “Christian” who lauds Islam.
More:
Islam never condones child abuse. According to sharia it is not permissible to have sex with girl bellow puberty and homosexuality is abominable punishable with death.It beyond dispute that Aisha reached puberty before the holy Prophet Muhammad consumated marriage with her and her age as 9 was found to be a mistake by reporter ,it was actually 19.
………………………….
Well, this claim is bizarre for a number of reasons. Firstly, while someone using “Arabic numerals” might possibly make this mistake, someone like dark ages Arab tribes could not. These numerals are actually Hindu Indian, and were not discovered by Muslims until they later invaded that land.
So there would be no reason for these barbarians to confuse “9” and “19”.
Moreover, Aisha is specifically described as playing on swings and playing with dolls–the activities of a young child. Further, girls over the age of puberty were not permitted to play with dolls, so no 19 year old would be doing this.
Even more salient, Ibrahim itace muhammed is contradicting *his own* comments on this shameful Islamic pedophilia that he has made here. He has previously said that Muslims have every right to marry six year old girls, and those *even younger*. He has said their is *no limit* on the age at which Muslims can marry children.
He has claimed that Aisha had “gone through puberty” as a young child–it appears he has no idea what this actually means. Nine year old children, of course, have not gone through puberty.
More:
so, Mr spencer has to accept this cardinal as complying with what mithraist christian Bible teaches, not ranting with his usual irrelevant reference to Quranic verses. It will not help.
………………………….
Well, this is additionally absurd. While there are other horrors in the Qur’an, such as wife beating and raping and slaughtering Infidels, there is no mention of sacralized pedophilia in the Qur’an. *Those* particular horrors are in the Hadith, as Ibrahim itace muhammed no doubt knows.
duh swami says
Wen I was 12 and in basic heathen training, someone thought I needed some ‘old time religion’, so I was forced to take catechism from a Catholic priest once a week…Just him and I, alone in a small room with the door closed….He was a perfect gentleman and never made any tricky moves…But I, a heathen in training, couldn’t keep my hands off of him…
He called for help when I cornered him under his desk…After he was rescued by three nuns, I was banned from the church building…
StellaSaidSo says
Haha, nice one, swami!
WPM says
A lot of senseless posting here about car manuals being a guide for life guiding choices in how you live your life. Mohammed a rapists ,murdering , slaving ,thieving ,wife beating ,child molesting ,man is not my idea of the profile I should follow to be the perfect man. If Mohammad every really live at all , or did Christ the one Christians follow live at all the true answer is who sets the better example of how you should try to live your life. A child molesting McCarrick is closer to following Mohammad abusing his power to abuse children and giving praise for the book the Koran that give excuses for abuse of what it considers lesser humans .
duh swami says
You seen to be one of those know it all, holier than thou people Agnes warned us about…Make sure you have a car repair manual with you when you travel…
WPM says
Where I am Holy then Thou? Your point was you were basing your ethics on car repair manual in my post I was saying behaving in good ethical manner following the golden rule and not being a violent socio- path was a better way to live then behaving like Mohammad . I was not even saying if you do not believe in any God you could not be a good person. A car repair manual ,a phone book ,or instructions on how to assemble furniture are ethically neutral. The Koran and Mohammed,s raving are not ethically neutral . They are violent fill instruction on rules of behavior towards others. If you follow them you not be a very pleasant or peaceful person .That car repair manual will not give you any code on ethical behavior ,I as sure it words of wisdom will win over the hearts and minds of the Islamics who want to kill you. I am sure it points of logic and wisdom will win many a debate with Moslems and bring many into your fold in its chapter of seasonal oil changes, motor oil 0-20w recommended Have a nice day reading about value clearance and the recommended torque foot lbs and order of tighten the bolts of resetting the engine head to the block, What brand of car tire does “Agnes” recommend to protect you from the Islamic terrorist when they come for you. The car repair manual lead a nice Crusade push the Islamic terror hordes out of Europe about 500 years ago. Too bad the car repair curtain leadership of car repair has failed car repairs guided instruction ,we now have motor failure and stuck in the middle of a wilderness full of beasts who are anti car repair and anti car.
gravenimage says
True, WPM.
Politicianophobia says
The filthy Thighing Master, Ibrahim talks about Muslims not having sex with little girls, but thighing is OK even with a baby. Sick, sick, sick. If you forget about what any book says and live your life as a decent person, you cannot follow oppressive Islam. I do not care what anyone said 1400 years ago–This is the year 2018, and we are supposed to be civilized. Adults should keep their hands off of children and if they have a problem in doing so, we need to protect the children come hell or high water. I am fine with hanging perverts. Stop making excuses for evil.
Carolyne says
P-phobia, Very wise and IMO very correct.
Gjallarhornet says
Well, he has already proven that he has no concept of right and wrong, so what did we expect?