In June and July of this year, when a youth soccer team was trapped in flooding caves in Thailand, billionaire Elon Musk offered to help by using his tech firms to create a special mini-sub capable of maneuvering through the flooded serpentine caves to reach the desperate boys and their coach. Though the device was never used, the Thai government ultimately thanked Elon Musk for his widely publicized efforts.
One British caver/diver, Vern Unsworth, who was not part of the actual rescuers but provided invaluable logistical support at the site, spoke critically of Musk and his mini-sub after the successful rescue operations, calling Musk’s efforts “a PR stunt” that “had no chance of working,” and claiming that Musk was asked to leave the area as he was presumably “in the way” of ongoing rescue efforts.
The billionaire responded to Unsworth’s words in a fit of self-acknowledged rage, unleashing a storm of tweets. In one of them he addressed Unsworth as “pedo guy”, apparently assuming that since the 63 year-old Unsworth spent much of his life in the Chiang Rai area of Thailand known for its child sex-trafficking he must be guilty of such practice. After an immediate backlash on social media, Musk, to his credit, quickly apologized for his overreaction, tweeting on July 18th, “The fault is mine and mine alone.”
Last week, however, the issue erupted once again, when Musk intimated there was truth to his initial claims since Unworth had not sued him for libel. The organization BuzzFeed News contacted him with follow-up questions, and in one of two email responses, Musk wrote:
““I suggest that you call people you know in Thailand, find out what’s actually going on and stop defending child rapists, you f**ing a**hole. He’s an old, single white guy from England who’s been traveling to or living in Thailand for 30 to 40 years, mostly Pattaya Beach, until moving to Chiang Rai for a child bride who was about 12 years old at the time….”
Musk has provided no corroboration for this latest charge. For the record, Unsworth has been in a long-term (seven plus years) romantic relationship with a 40 year-old Thai woman named Woranan Ratrawiphukkun.
It seems clear that Elon Musk has an axe to grind with Vern Unsworth, and is seeking to tar and feather the latter with the reprehensible crime of child rape/pedophilia. If these unsubstantiated charges somehow prove to be true, then Mr. Unsworth will deserve the full legal and moral judgment appropriate for his base behavior. If not, Mr. Musk will deserve to be excoriated for his heinous defamation of another human being.
What interests me most about this whole seedy affair is that there is near universal agreement that the sexual predation by an older male of a pre-pubescent or pubescent girl (or boy) is an abhorrent evil, and those who commit such acts, when proven, should face legal punishment as well as the moral opprobrium of the civilized world.
Yet today there are some one and a half billion people on the planet who revere as a prophet the man Muhammad, about whom there is no question that he took his best friend’s nine-year old daughter A’isha to be his “wife” when he was fifty-three. Apologists will say that back in 7th C. Arabia, such practices were common, or at least not considered immoral, so we should give Muhammad a pass. Even worse, Muslim theologians argue that according to the Qur’an Muhammad is the perfect paradigm for human life and his practices are to be emulated by all Muslims as closely as possible. Hence, marriage of old men to young girls is a good practice. Worst of all, the idea that people are capable of believing that a man engaged in such practices could somehow be a true prophet of a morally perfect God is frightening beyond measure. Yet, such is commonplace in the Muslim world. Even such a well-schooled Islamic scholar as the Grand Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini could (and did) say:
“A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate vaginally, but sodomising the child is acceptable. If a man does penetrate and damage the child then, he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl will not count as one of his four permanent wives and the man will not be eligible to marry the girl’s sister… It is better for a girl to marry at such a time when she would begin menstruation at her husband’s house, rather than her father’s home. Any father marrying his daughter so young will have a permanent place in heaven” (from his book Tahrir al Wasilah).
How is it possible in this day and age that anyone could excuse a mindset approving such evil behavior? While it is true that sexual predation occurs in all cultures and societies, only in the Islamic world is it given a religious stamp of approval. Where are today’s human rights activists calling out child rape masquerading as holy marriage? Where are the Western feminists taking on Shari’ah laws which enslave helpless girls to Muslim men who buy them from destitute parents for a paltry dowry? Where are the ethicists and theologians and statesmen of the world to denounce the behaviors and teachings of Muhammad regarding child marriage and sex slavery, and to demand that Islam renounce such practices?
Elon Musk may or may not be right about the particular case of Vern Unsworth (to date, he has presented no objective evidence). But if he really is concerned about child sex-trafficking and pedophilia, he would make a much bigger impact were he to use his vast resources to expose and publicize the undeniable, religiously-approved child rape practiced throughout wide swathes of the Muslim world all because of Muhammad’s perverse example fourteen centuries ago.
Read the rest here.
mortimer says
The LEFTARDS would not accept PEDOPHILIA In their political opponents, but the are TOTALLY SILENT WHEN MUSLIMS DO IT.
Peter Buckley says
“Yet today there are some one and a half billion people on the planet who revere as a prophet the man Muhammad….”
Drivel. Have 1.5 billion been asked? Nope. Where does this ridiculous figure come from? What about the large percentage of muslims under 5 or 6? Are they capable of “revering” Muhammad? Nope. What about all the “muslims” who aren’t muslims at all?
https://www.economist.com/united-states/2018/03/15/the-number-of-ex-muslims-in-america-is-rising
Be honest, there is a huge percentage of that figure who are not particularly bothered one way or another about Muhammad:
https://theconversation.com/cultural-muslims-like-cultural-christians-are-a-silent-majority-32097
Mateen Elass says
Peter, let me propose an experiment. Why don’t you set up a series of conversations with “nominal Muslims” and see how they respond when you begin to make disparaging remarks about Muhammad?
Regarding 5 or 6 year old children and whether they are able to revere Muhammad, please watch some video recordings of children being trained in the madrasas, or those coming out of mosques with the fathers/uncles/brothers after Friday prayers. Children are easily molded by the family and culture around them, as Hitler understood only too well in dreaming up the Hitler Youth.
In any case, I’m not wedded to the 1.5 billion number. How about we cut the number in half — would it make you feel better that only 750 million people around the world revere Muhammad as their prophet and perfect exemplar for life — include child marriage and sex slavery?
Peter Buckley says
“Why don’t you set up a series of conversations with “nominal Muslims” and see how they respond when you begin to make disparaging remarks about Muhammad?”
It depends what you mean by “disparaging remarks”. Do you mean real insults, purely for the sake of it? Or do you mean merely quoting hadith? I wouldn’t do the first, as THERE IS NO NEED TO “INSULT” Muhammad. If you mean the second, then, yes. Having worked with muslims most of my adult life, I HAVE had these conversations.I HAVE quoted embarrassing hadith to them. Their reaction has usually been a) surprise by my knowledge. This reaction is becoming less common now, as muslims are becoming aware that non-muslims often have a better knowledge of Islam than they do. b) stunned silence. What is your point?
“Regarding 5 or 6 year old children and whether they are able to revere Muhammad, please watch some video recordings of children being trained in the madrasas….”
I am perfectly aware, as most adults in the West are,, of what is taught in madrassas. But again, your figure is based on the false assumption that ALL muslim children attend these places.
“In any case, I’m not wedded to the 1.5 billion number.” So why mention it? Islam is built on myths and half-truths. You only need the FACTS to dismantle it. Why give your opponents the opportunity to jump on an obvious error? If the number is inaccurate, which you’ve tacitly admitted, why include it? It puts into doubt anything else you might have to say.
“……….would it make you feel better that only 750 million people around the world revere Muhammad as their prophet and perfect exemplar for life……
It’s not about me. It’s about people like yourself who write articles critical of Islam, but who “overplay” the numbers game. I’m interested in why you do it, if you know it isn’t true? Is it simply for effect? You don’t NEED to do it. It is Islam that has to do it, because it is based on myth and half-truths.
I look forward to any reply. Unfortunately, I am not being notified when someone replies to my comments, so I have to keep checking back…………..
Peter Buckley says
“If a ‘muslim’ fails to believe & obey the edicts of the Quran & Islam, then, they ARE NOT MUSLIMS …… calling yourself something does not make you that thing (ask Elizabeth Warren)….”
In which case, there really aren’t that many muslims in the world. Mateen Elass has already conceded as much ( “I’m not wedded to the 1.5 billion number…….would it make you feel better that only 750 million people around the world revere Muhammad as their prophet and perfect exemplar for life…”)
GP says
+1 I fully agree with your article Mateen.
The hypocrisy of the ‘progressives’ is astounding. They are a bunch of cowards….they fear upsetting the Islamists.
gerard says
Peter Buckley
I think the point you are missing is the difference between theory and practise. It may well be that many muslims don’t care too much about the actual teaching of islam but it remains the teaching of islam that Mohammad is the perfect man and his behaviour is to be imitated. That’s the problem.
gravenimage says
Peter Buckley wrote:
“Yet today there are some one and a half billion people on the planet who revere as a prophet the man Muhammad….”
Drivel. Have 1.5 billion been asked? Nope. Where does this ridiculous figure come from? What about the large percentage of muslims under 5 or 6? Are they capable of “revering” Muhammad? Nope.
………………………….
Peter, this would be like saying it is ridiculous to characterize Christians as revering Jesus–which is the basis of Christianity. Would anyone question this? Of course not–it is basic to anyone who considers themselves to be Christian, whatever their denomination.
The most basic expression of Muslim faith is the Shehada, which states: “there is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is his Prophet”. This is what *every* Muslim believes. So saying that Muslims do not consider Muhammed to be the prophet of Islam is quite absurd.
More:
What about all the “muslims” who aren’t muslims at all?
https://www.economist.com/united-states/2018/03/15/the-number-of-ex-muslims-in-america-is-rising
………………………….
You seem to be terribly confused–ex-Muslims *are not Muslims*, anymore than ex-Christians are still Christian.
More:
Be honest, there is a huge percentage of that figure who are not particularly bothered one way or another about Muhammad:
………………………….
Milad Milani does not back up his claims that “cultural Muslims” represent the majority of Muslims at all. And even he only claims that this is the case in the West, not in the Muslim world itself.
There is, actually, not reason to suppose that most of the world’s Muslims are not Muslim.
Moreover, how many of these ‘non-Muslim Muslims’ actually speak out against the savagery of the “Prophet”, including his pedophilia? *Very few*–and most of those few tie themselves into pretzels pretending that Muhammed was not actually a pedophile (or rapist or Jihadi).
Can you point to a single Muslim who is critical of Muhammed?
I will not be holding my breath…
And Milad Milani is terribly dishonest about Islam–he describes 1300-1900 AD as a period of non-violence–completely ignoring the conquest of Constantinople, Greece, and the Balkans; the Battle of Lepanto, the sieges of Vienna, slave raids on the coast of Europe and on shipping in the Mediterranean, including American shipping; and the first stage of the horrific Armenian Genocide.
https://theconversation.com/islam-the-open-civilisation-confounds-closed-minds-44416
Not exactly peaceful after all.
He sneers at the whole idea that Muslims might be considered terrorists–instead, he features a large picture of Anders Breivik and falsely claims that he self-identified as Christaian. In other words, he is a blatant Taqiyya artist. Not exactly a reliable source for the claim that the majority of Muslims are not Muslims…
Peter Buckley says
It is you who continue to miss the point-by assuming-= that “muslims” are the same thing as Islam.
“You seem to be terribly confused–ex-Muslims *are not Muslims*, anymore than ex-Christians are still Christian.”
I know that-but they are still WRONGLY “assumed” to be, by people like Pew research, simply because of their (cultural) background. Pew will incude those ex-muslims as “muslims” because they don’t include an “ex-muslim” category, and therefore will WRONGLY be included in the “muslim” category.
The idea that 1.5 billion people “revere” Muhammad is a joke. Deep down, you know that’s true. Just because Islam says they “should” revere him doesn’t alter the FACT that a huge percentage don’t. Stop falling into the trap that all muslims “follow Islam”. It’s drivel, and you know it.
StellaSaidSo says
You are right, Peter Buckley. There are many nominal Muslims who think that Mohammed was a complete wanker, but these days they must often conceal their private opinions, for fear of dire consequences. This was not always the case. Practically every Indonesian and Malaysian Muslim I knew at university, for example, were quite open about the fact that they considered the Koran an historical artefact, and Mohammed a mythological figure. My Turkish friends were similarly secular, and I don’t remember any of them wearing a hijab or attending a mosque. Nevertheless they all identified culturally as Muslims, much as I might be described as a ‘cultural Christian’. In 2018, my friends may indeed be more circumspect, but to claim, as gravenimage does, that no Muslim is critical of Mohammed, is simply ludicrous, and casts as enemies many people who reject formal Islam but retain family and cultural ties.
Peter Buckley says
“You are right, Peter Buckley. There are many nominal Muslims who think that Mohammed was a complete wanker….”
Thanks. That’s a bit OTT, but that’s all I’m saying. Not difficult is it?
StellaSaidSo says
Indeed, LameBear, a Muslim, by definition, is a follower of Islam.
But not all Muslims follow Islam in the same way (there are numerous sects, for example), nor do they all follow it with the same degree of literalness. Some barely follow Islam at all, yet do not consider themselves ‘ex’ Muslims.
StellaSaidSo says
LOL, Peter Buckley, indeed, it isn’t complicated at all, though some here can be relied upon to make it so.
Chand says
Musk calls Unsworth a pedophile and so Mateen Elass accuses ALL Muslims of being pedophiles or potential pedophiles because their prophet was supposedly a pedophile.
LOL!! Ridiculousness at its best.
But I thought Muhammad was a fictional character, made up by warring Arab warlords.
Peter Buckley, I agree with you.
Mateen Elass says
Chand,
Please show me where in my article I accused “ALL Muslims of being pedophiles or potential pedophiles….” My emphasis was on the teachings of Islam itself, and its undeniable persentation of its prophet as one who consummated a marriage with the 9 year old daughter of his best friend.
What is ridiculous is that Muslims could consider such behavior to be holy and blessed by their god, not to mention worthy of emulation.
In this matter, it does not make any difference if Muhammad is a real figure from history or fictional. What matters is that millions of people think he was real and that he spoke for Allah.
Peter Buckley says
“It may well be that many muslims don’t care too much about the actual teaching of islam ….”
That’s the point I was making. So you agree with me, and disagree with the writer’s (easily disproved)statement that “1.5 billion revere Muhammad”.
Rarely says
Peter Buckley
It doesn’t matter how many muslims support child marriage. Those that don’t aren’t particularly vocal about their opposition. It could be dangerous to their health to let their opinion be known. Consequently, 1.5 billion people approve of the practice in fact or by extension. What matters is what islam is preaching, not how many muslims are hearing it. This “silent majority” is irrelevant.
You are splitting hairs any way. THE question is why do women’s libbers and those concerned with human rights ignore the many precepts in the Islamic religion that are diametrically opposed to their avowed principles? Instead they actually ally with islam, thereby throwing away those principles, for the counterfeit “support” of the so-called “victimized” muslims.
Rather shouldn’t they be criticizing these practices and, at least, ensure they are banned in their country and that any such ban be vigorously enforced?
As a “privileged white male” who is part of a group taking it on the chin for some vague perceived wrongs (I refuse to take responsibility for Henry VIII or Hugh Hefner), I must wonder how those supporting child marriage, FGM, female second class status, virulent anti-Semitism, etc, get a free pass.
Rarely says
i.e. “a free pass in MY country by my elected representatives, the media and even those whose causes I support”.
nuf said
Frank Anderson says
Rarely, you might enjoy some reading on the “tacit admission rule”. Under some circumstances silence is agreement in US law. We both know that protest is fatal in islam. Non-conformity is fatal in islam. Is there anything that is not ultimately fatal in islam?
Peter Buckley says
“It doesn’t matter how many muslims support child marriage.”
A truly bizarre and ridiculous statement (and quite offensive).
“Those that don’t aren’t particularly vocal about their opposition…..Consequently, 1.5 billion people approve of the practice in fact or by extension.”
You’ve just contradicted yourself inside two sentences. Congratulations !
Green Infidel says
To find a link to the RoP in Elon’s outbursts marks the desperate “local” angle of the day, methinks… the whole story tho is hilarious!
Green Infidel says
Btw, Mr Unsworth lives in Thailand with his girlfriend, who’s in her 40s and runs her own business… there’s no “may or may not” about it – Elon simply can’t get over the fact that he didn’t get to save those Thai kids in the cave!
The ultimate case of virtue signalling gone wrong?
Rarely says
Naw. I suspect that his ego took a kicking because he hasn’t been deified for his generous offer — it may very well have been genuine. He could redeem himself a bit for his comments by making a significant contribution to cover the costs of these kids and their parents. OTOH he may need his cash for the defamation suit.
GP says
Maybe not. I obviously can’t verify the facts about this…..but I was looking at the news with my 18 year old son on the PC last night when we saw an update on this whole Elon Musk v Vern Unsworth public dispute.
My son does a lot of online networking with friends from all around the world with similar interests in IT and media. He matter-of-factly mentioned that one of his close on-line friends (who is a Thai national and a trainee doctor in his 20’s) told him that he knew about this guy Vern Unsworth having a very young bride or mistress ages ago. It is not recent news in Thailand apparently……his words were that the Thai authorities know but don’t really pursue it….especially in the Thai muslim community as it is difficult to police. Plus there are girls (and probably boys) from poor families who are sold off to these predators to support the rest of the family.
I’m not saying that it is true……I am just reporting what this young man who is a Thai national told my son.
BC says
Musk may be a genius but he has never been caving obviously. I did some caving in my youth and those passages are usually so narrow that people actually get stuck even with the flexibility of the body. The width of the human body plus an rigid air tight cylinder would never get though even straight passages let alone angled ones
Salome says
Someone says something untrue about you, then unreservedly apologises, but if you don’t sue for liable it must’ve been true in the first place? NO, NO, NO! In any civilised jurisdiction, a prompt apology-retraction is considered sufficient to obviate litigation. Not everyone can afford to sue Elon Musk, and the less the courts are bothered by defamation cases, the merrier. Of course, if Mr Unsworth were to seek crowd funding for a defamation case now, he might find a few million contributors.
Hugh Fitzgerald says
“I suggest that you call people you know in Thailand, find out what’s actually going on and stop defending child rapists, you f**ing a**hole.”
That is what Elon Musk wrote in an email? Crude and rude. The ill-mannered billionaire needs lessons in decorum and deportment. And a lawsuit from Mr. Unsworth — who surely didn’t relish being called a ‘child rapist’ –would also be welcome.
And how curious is Elon Musk’s limited view of human beings. He thinks that if someone doesn’t sue for libel it could only be because what has been said about that person is true. He lacks the imagination to realize that plenty of people possess neither the wherewithal nor the desire to sue the way Elon Musk thinks they naturally should. What an unpleasant character.
David says
I heartily agree with this post from Hugh Fitzgerald. Elon Musk has shown the world a very unpleasant side to his character. I hope he gets sued for a very hefty sum. Incidentally, I don’t think all this damaging publicity is going to help him sell his electric cars. I wouldn’t buy one now even if I could afford to.
James Lincoln says
As a sidebar,
If Elon cannot ramp up production of the Model 3 quickly, and keep it affordable for the middle class, Tesla may not survive.
Mark Spahn says
This post is not from Hugh Fitzgerald; it is from Mateen Elass.
Rarely says
How so? And who is “Mateen Elass”?
Rarely says
Ignore my comment I get it.
gravenimage says
Mark and Rarely, Mateen Elass wrote the story above, but David and James were replying to a post in the comments by Hugh Fitzgerald, who is also a frequent contributor here.
granddaddy says
What does pedophilia have to do with anything? The soccer team was rescued. Is that a bad thing because it happened in Thailand? So what’s the rage about? I don’t get it.
gravenimage says
Musk is accusing one of the rescuers of being a pedophile. This appears to be completely without basis.
granddaddy says
Yes, I understand. I guess my question is, What does the rescue of a Thai soccer team have to do with Elon Musk? and the answer appears to be: Nothing. Apparently Mr. Musk got his feelings hurt when his offer to help was rejected, and so when someone pointed out this rejection in public, he decided to rip them a new a-hole. I also get the feeling that, if someone else besides Elon Musk had made this accusation, not too many people would be paying attention to it. It is an unfortunate statement, but hardly what one would call news.
ItsReallyQuiteClear says
Mr. Musk might be fortunate that the target of his criticism isn’t “thin-skinned”. I hope that it’s still permissible to use that term in…thick-skinned company…
gravenimage says
+1
Indiana Tom says
Elon Musk is losing his grip on sanity as Tesla sinks deeper in the water.
gravenimage says
Elon Musk Tilting at the Wrong Windmill
………………..
Yes–this whole thing from Musk is insane. There seems to be no basis whatsoever to his claims that Unworth is a pedophile–his accusations seems to be based not on any evidence, but on his anger over Unworth questioning the practicality of Musk’s rescue suggestion.
Meanwhile, of course, there is a whole creed that sacralizes the abuse of children, that Musk seems to be completely ignoring.
StellaSaidSo says
Why should Musk not ‘completely ignore’ the ‘whole creed that sacralises the abuse of children’? It has absolutely no relevance to the issue at hand.
I consider it very unlikely that Elon Musk would be so foolish as to make accusations without evidence.
A_M_Swallow says
Elon Musk’s offer will have been motivated by the South American mining accident that NASA assisted with. NASA brought in its suppliers. Elon Musk’s firm SpaceX did not do very much to help, this has been ‘noticed’ within the space community. The submarine was probably his attempt to prove he is not a useless coward.
IanB says
Anagram of his name – Lone Skum.
Say it out loud and know his fate.
GP says
Can I just throw a spanner in the works here.
I obviously can’t verify the facts about this…..but I was looking at the news with my 18 year old son on the PC last night when we saw an update on this whole Elon Musk v Vern Unsworth public dispute.
My son does a lot of online networking with friends from all around the world with similar interests in IT and media. He matter-of-factly mentioned that one of his close on-line friends (who is a Thai national and a trainee doctor in his 20’s) told him that he knew about this guy Vern Unsworth having a very young bride or mistress ages ago. It is not recent news in Thailand apparently……his words were that the Thai authorities know but don’t really pursue it….especially in the Thai muslim community as it is difficult to police. Plus there are girls (and probably boys) from poor families who are sold off to these predators to support the rest of the family.
I’m not saying that it is true……I am just reporting what this young man who is a Thai national told my son.
What a crazy mixed up world we live in when adults use children for financial gain, sex and cheap labour. Evil!
StellaSaidSo says
I am not surprised to read this. Thailand is a mecca for dirty old Western men. Elon Musk may well be right about Unsworth.
Ren says
As far as we (my family and I) are concerned Elon Musk is absolutely right. The creep (Uns….) is into little boys and it will come out when the case gets going. Besides, a 70-year-old with a 40-year-old is certainly tasteless. However, this “girlfriend” is most certainly just a decoy to cover up for the real “interests” of this @#$% !!
Hope he sues Elon Musk. Surely, Elon has all the proof ready! Can’t wait.
WPM says
A 70 year old having a 40 year old might be tasteless ,but it is still two adults having a relation. You base your facts because of this relationship and because the man does not want to sue Elon Musk he is guilty of child molesting? This girl friend must be a decoy in your eyes because no 70 year old man anywhere in the world marry or have relationships with 40 something year old women? If Elon Musk has proof why wait to get sued to bring the proof outed in the press now? He Elon Musk is a very rich man who has the press eating out of his hand with every word he says. How dare a common man proclaim that the grand and powerful Elon Musk might be wrong in something and have it pick up by the MSM!! He is white old foreign guy living in Thailand he got to be a child molester ! Like the young black kid walking thru a white community in America has to be looking to rob some of the houses there ,not too racist ? If he is a child molester and Elon Musk has proof why not bring it to light now it would be a morally right to get this child molester off the street? Being a average common man living in a foreign community maybe he just does not have the time ,money ,loss of privacy ,to fight a very rich man who the world seems to adore in court He is found guilty because in your eyes he is not going forward and suing Elon Musk! He must be a witch because he does not proclaim loud enough he is not a witch . I must also be a secret child molester because I have my doubts about this mans guilt on no evidence except him being 70 years old white living in Thailand and having a 40 something year old girl friend.
Twerzig says
I don’t think that Khomeini actually said that I checked.
Baucent says
Musk is unhinged. His antics increasingly odd and his Teslar company losing top staff. I suspect the pressure is getting to him.
PATRICIA KOENIG says
When Mohammed consummated marriage with his 9-year old bride, Aisha in the 7th century, he was violating the Mediterranean Sea area customs. As early as the 4th century, the minimum age for marriage in the Roman Empire, was for a girl 12 years old and for a boy 14 years old. Those ages are documented in St. Augustine’s writings.