The Hagia Sophia is a museum now, although it does host some Islamic prayer. It was originally a cathedral, then was turned into a mosque when Constantinople fell to the warriors of jihad on May 29, 1453. In my new book The History of Jihad From Muhammad to ISIS, I detail what happened on that day. The Byzantine scholar Bessarion wrote to the Doge of Venice two months after the conquest, in July 1453, saying that Constantinople had been
…sacked by the most inhuman barbarians and the most savage enemies of the Christian faith, by the fiercest of wild beasts. The public treasure has been consumed, private wealth has been destroyed, the temples have been stripped of gold, silver, jewels, the relics of the saints, and other most precious ornaments. Men have been butchered like cattle, women abducted, virgins ravished, and children snatched from the arms of their parents.
So much for the much-vaunted Islamic “tolerance” in Europe. Arm yourself with the truth by ordering The History of Jihad From Muhammad to ISIS — click here to do so now.
“Demand for Hagia Sophia to be opened for prayer ‘inadmissible,’ says top court,” Hürriyet Daily News, September 13, 2018:
The Constitutional Court on Sept. 13 held an application made by a private association that called for the opening of the Hagia Sophia to worshipping as “inadmissible” on the grounds of “incompetence ratione personae,” state-run Anadolu Agency has reported.
The Constitutional Court dismisses applications as incompatible ratione personae when the applicant is not a victim of the events or measures in question.
The relevant Istanbul-based association requested the Turkish government to make arrangements to open the Hagia Sophia as a Muslim prayer house in 2004 but did not receive a response.
In 2005, they appealed to the Council of State, which rejected the association’s request. This time, the association took the case to the Constitutional Court in an application in 2015 claiming the current status of the Hagia Sophia serving as a museum is in violation of the freedom of religion and belief….
gravenimage says
Turkey’s top court rejects bid to make Hagia Sophia a mosque
…………………….
Erdogan must be very, very unhappy. I guess there are still a few Kemalists on the court…
Brian hoff says
The President of turkey is happy with the court ruleing it isnot the time to make it than mosque again. The president didnot want to be the one to say no.
christianblood says
There is another very, very, very GOOD NEWS for the Christians in that region and that is Christianity is BACK AND ALIVE in Aleppo after the US and Saudi-backed islamic terrorists were defeated there 18 months ago! THANK GOD FOR THIS!
Please Pray also for the defeat of the US and the Saudi-backed murderous jihadists in Idlib too! More below:
http://catholicherald.co.uk/news/2018/09/11/syriac-patriarch-celebrates-restored-cathedral-our-people-have-overcome/?platform=hootsuite
gravenimage says
Of course, I am glad that Christians in Aleppo are somewhat less threatened than they were–this is a good thing.
But no–the United States does not wage violent Jihad.
Brian hoff says
The president of turkey is happy with the court ruleing. It not time to turn it into than mosque. It will in the future be turn into than mosque again.
gravenimage says
In other words, they will return to desecrating this church as soon as Muslims have sufficiently cowed what is left of the free West.
No doubt Brian hoff–really, “DefenderofIslam”–wishes that he and his coreligionists could rape, enslave and murder Christians there then, just as they did in 1453. Too bad Muslims in Turkey have already slaughtered most of the Christians there. *Ugh*I.
Westman says
I’m betting that Erdogan didn’t oppose the ruling because he was able, through the court’s decision process, to learn which judges to eliminate before the next demand to convert Hagia Sophia museum into a grand mosque.
gravenimage says
Quite likely, Westman.
SJ says
We must REMEMBER….This was done by ISLAMIC SUPREMISTS in a bid to OCCUPY THE WHOLE WORLD! Everyone, get the adage right.
Islamic Supremists are bad! )Too bad most are Supremists) but the point is they are TRYING TO ILLEGALLY OCCUPY MOST COUNTRIES. THIS MUST STOP!
Richard says
Unfortunately, these wolves in sheep’s clothing have been INVITED into the Western countries, whose horrid leaders don’t want it to stop! They make such a big deal about limiting children for the sake of the environment; then, when they don’t have enough children to keep the economy moving, they bring in the children of hell. It’s an old story. As a Cherokee/Choctaw, I can remind you: Indians had bad immigration laws.
Lilith Wept says
ALL moslems follow the same Koran ….the “supremists” don’t have a seperate or different Koran, and ALL moslems believe in and follow the same Sunnah , ALL moslems believe that Mohammed was the perfect example of a Moslem and his example should be followed , ….so all are suspect. There is no way of knowing when a Moslem in the West, a so called moderat, will decide to start taking his religion seriously, become devout, start reading the Koran and Hadiths , and start obeying exactly what the Koran , Allah and Mohammed command ALL moslems to do… kill non moslems….to wage war on non moslems. It’s been referred to as Sudden Jihadi Syndrome…….
The “extremists” or supremeists all want to wage jihad on non moslems , kill them , and take their property and turn the whole world into an Islamic caliphate. The “moderate” moslwms support this with the payment of zakat ( one of the uses of the zakat finds is to support those who are doing jihad) and with their silence…..and maybe even more….and the moderate moslems don’t want to actually do the violent jihad , the suicide bombings and so on, But they will be happy to reap the rewards…..
There is no test to determine exactly how devout a moslem is, how likely he is to put into practice what the Koran and Hadiths command him to do, or if he has read the Koran and Hadiths and completely understands what his religion requites him to do. …….So ALL moslems are suspect.
jayell says
I’ve got a brilliant idea! Why don’t they turn it back into a Cathedral? Then Erdogan can show the world what a dynamic, forward-looking, truly democratic and inclusive leading member of the International Community Turkey is becoming. Well, he was saying that he wants to show the USA a thing or two, wasn’t he?
Richard says
It’s a brilliant idea for a Christian, but if a Muslim leader did it, his people would turn on him en masse, and probably kill him. From an Islamic standpoint, I know of nothing worse he could do. From a Christian standpoint, it would send his soul straight to heaven. Muslims believe in the freedom of religion – But in their minds, the one and only religion is Islam. I could admire them for that, were it not for the monsterous things they do.
Frank Anderson says
A moment in history possibly worth remembering: Shortly before an election to be held soon after Hitler was appointed Chancellor (Jan 30, 1933), the Reichstag (German Parliament) building was burned to the ground. There was a constrained effort to protect the surrounding buildings but restrained effort to put the fire out. A number of men were arrested, including one known Communist. All were put on trial in a court of judges still trying to uphold the law in the face of raving attacks by none other than Nazi#2, Herman Goering. Only one man was convicted and immediately guillotined. The rest were acquitted; whereupon Hitler decreed the end of that court and directed all future anti-Nazi cases go to a more “reliable” “court” that would rule as HE wished. “Those who cannot remember.. . “
Brian hoff says
In the village I grew up in the local fire department let than lumber burn down as the nature gases tank where in danger of blow up as the fire was near then
Tbey have to wait untril other fire department show up to help then
They have to use they hoses to keep the tank cool.
gravenimage says
“Brian hoff’ pretending that the Nazis–who set the Reichstag on fire–were trying to protect the firemen by preventing them from putting it out is just laughable.
gravenimage says
Yes–important history, Frank.
Gjallarhornet says
Application for mosque denied. Next up in line for applications: Christian pig farm and Bavarian beer hall. Hopefully approved.
Sam says
This is a very interesting ruling even if don’t completely understand the legal nomenclature. But, this is the def. Jurisdiction of a judge in a case which has international elements may depend on the whereabouts of the plaintiff or, as in most cases, the defendant. In certain cases, jurisdiction will depend on the whereabouts of the object of the litigation (i.e. real estate); in others, jurisdiction will depend on whether or not the defendant is within the territory of the court or is a citizen of that court’s nation. In the two latter cases, jurisdiction is said to be by reason of the person, ratione personae. Doe this ruling have implications for the strongman Erdogan? My guess is that he will find a way to sideline the ruling. However, there may be cause to celebrate. Secularism is not completely dead. Erdogan and his cronies will have to legislate a lot. It does paint a bleak picture of Islam though of defenders in the West who are with regards Islam’s excesses and pure bulling… Who is the defendant according to ratione personae, Christians…Ottoman Empire…Muslims. This what I don’t understand as yet…
Frank Anderson says
Sam, I think you will find jurisdiction is every bit as varied as you describe. For a crime it is usually where it happens, unless as in some cases under US law, extra-territorial jurisdiction applies. For torts, that is matters not governed by contract or criminal law, where the injury occurs, unless a long-arm statute applies and brings the case to the residence of the plaintiff. Contract cases generally go where the contract says, or where the work is to be performed or goods delivered, or where the breach took place, or where one of the parties resides. Real property is almost always, (I am not aware of any exceptions and appreciate better information) where the property is located. That is my understanding and experience of general US law.
The law in Turkey is different, no reasonable doubt. It is probably based on French/Roman law (Civil Law) instead of English based Common Law, from William the Conqueror in 1066. I would be amazed with the Turkish leadership not destroying this ruling at the first opportunity for impeding the Islamic fundamentalist takeover of formerly secular Turkey. Correction and better information are always appreciated.
Frank Anderson says
Sam,.as in many notes, I have additional thoughts that might help. Much of my discussion above is straddling the issues of jurisdiction and venue; and I think my comment may be confusing. Jurisdiction is authority over the parties and controversy. Venue is where, which court can or should hear the controversy. There are many situations where a plaintiff wants to be heard in his local court and the defendant is not present. The plaintiff can serve the defendant several ways that are described in Rule 4 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and corresponding Bankruptcy Rule, to attempt to force the defendant to come to the favored court. But whichever court hears the case, it must obtain the legal presence, or the effective waiver of presence, such as failure to appear after proper service, in order to next determine if the court has the authority to hear and decide the case. There are many people who know more about this. This is what I know and have done. But again, Turkey is not the us and almost certainly has different rules that will no doubt in my mind soon change in light of this decision.
Sam says
Thanks Frank for this elucidation…for all the ramifications of the law as best you understand it. Two things stand out for me, 1) Turkey still has some semblance of justice; I’m not too sure if I am using the right description here, but we can agree that recourse was made to the law 2) The law was upheld. Perhaps, a third point- despots are not beholden to the law. The Last point was\is affirmed by the last Presidential election where Erdogan gave himself sweeping powers. The dye was cast, he removed Prime minister; installed his son-in law; Is this a precursor of what lies ahead for Christianity and Sophia Hagia In Turkey?
Frank Anderson says
Sam, regardless of the opinion of some local people, I believe that every good deed is a minimum of 3: 1) For the person who receives it; 2) For the person who does it; 3) For the Glory of God Who makes all things possible. By going through this discussion it helps me recall the details. It also allows me to receive correction where I am in error.
There is an interesting possibility for us to consider. Suppose some genius in a country that views any criticism of islam to be illegal hate speech, who then files charges in that country against a person in the US for something written here on JW. Then based on that charge the genius comes to the US to seek extradition of the criminally accused for exercising the right of free speech under the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States. He claims the critical writer has broken the law in his home country even though US law clearly not only permits but protects the accused in the US.
Now this is where I think things could get both precious and exciting: By coming to the US and invoking its legal process, the genius submits/accepts/surrenders to US law and jurisdiction. He should be charged with violation of civil rights afforded under US law under color of foreign law, among many other charges that I can imagine. He could wind up in jail and fined large sums along with his government agency which would lose sovereign immunity when it submits to US jurisdiction. I would love to present that case, and I know a bunch of lawyers who would stand in line for the opportunity..
Michael Copeland says
Thank you for your helpful elucidation.
One refinement: English Common Law predates William the Conqueror (1066-1087).
English Laws were written down c. 600 in the reign of Ethelbert. A copy penned in the early 1120s survives in the “Textus Roffensis”, the “Annals of Rochester” at Rochester Cathedral.
It is valuable to know that English laws were set down IN WRITING well before the beginning of the Mohammedan calendar, 622, and well before theMohammedan texts, which relied on oral recitation, were first written down.
Frank Anderson says
M.C. THANK YOU. I did not know that. My understanding from law school that W the C, aka “Bill the Bastard” got tired of his “nobles” maiming and killing each other in trials by combat and originated a system of recorded decisions that should be used as authority to guide future cases (stare decisis or stand by the decision). A rule thus established could be changed if new facts appeared that were not present or considered in the previous case, or policy changes were desired or necessary, giving a fundamental reason for law at every test. Please help all of us connect and reconcile this information. Again, I did not know what you have written. Thank you.
sidney penny says
So much for the much-vaunted Islamic “tolerance” in India. Arm yourself with the truth by ordering The History of Jihad From Muhammad to ISIS
https://www.amazon.in/History-India-Told-Its-Historians/dp/1287736394
History of India, as Told by Its Own Historians: The Muhammadan Period, Volume 5
Sounds like a quoted paragraph from Henry Miers Elliot and John Dowson book
sidney penny says
Not much different in India.
So much for the much-vaunted Islamic “tolerance” in India. Arm yourself with the truth by ordering The History of Jihad From Muhammad to ISI
Brian hoff says
It can be only be the president of turkey and the parliament can turn it into a mosque again.
gravenimage says
The first time Hagia Sophia was turned into a Mosque Muslims ran amok among those who had taken sanctuary there, raping and murdering women, children, old people, monks and nuns, and enslaving the few survivors.
This, no doubt, is what “Brian hoff”–really, “DefenderofIslam”–is hoping to see again. *Ugh*. Of course, there are few Christians surviving in Turkey today, most of them having been murdered a century ago in the Armenian Genocide.
Jaladhi says
.>….the temples have been stripped of gold, silver, jewels, the relics of the saints, and other most precious ornaments.<"
This is what these thieves and looters have done to Hindu temples of India. And the same has been repeated all over the world. The same behavior continues even today – now they come as migrants to steal your lands – previously they came as invaders and took the land by force!
gravenimage says
Grimly true–this is what Muslims do to *every* non-Muslim place of worship.
Cicero says
Wherever, in India a Shiva temple was erected , there would be a corresponding temple dedicated to his consort Devi a distance away.
When Tipu Sultan ravaged South India he came upon a Shiva temple . His soldiers destroyed it but its ruins still stand today in modern India.
What Tipy Sultan did not discover was the Devi temple standong a few miles away in dense forest. That temple still stands today and is a hub of celebration and worship.
Mougambika!
When curios visitors to the area see the desecrated and destroyed Shiva temple with a minaret sitting lopsidedly atop it the guide will casually mention the temple’s history.
gravenimage says
Supremacist Muslims always do this, everywhere in the world.
cornelius says
A decade or so ago, I was reading my daughter’s 10th grade world history book (from a typical American public school). The book detailed both the Crusader conquest of Jerusalem and the Muslim conquest of Constantinople.
The former was depicted in all its infamy, as marauding crusaders exterminated virtually everyone inside the conquered city,…including women, children, Jews, etc. It was horrific reading and produced the revulsion it was designed to produce when it was written. I had no problem with it because it portrayed an historical reality.
Conversely, the Muslim sacking of Constantinople was completely and utterly sanitized. To be sure, it recounted how the Greeks fought gravely until the city fell, but it included none of the ugly details that were purveyed in Will Durant’s historical account of the conquest (and folks, he was otherwise quite generous towards Islam throughout his multi-volume ‘Story of Civilization’).
Durant recounted in vivid detail the barbarism, the plunder, the rapes and murder of nuns on the alter of Hagia Sophia, the fact that there were literally “rivers of blood” flowing down the streets of the conquered city. But none of this was apparent in my daughter’s history book.
I marveled in disgust at how the two cases were treated so differently. It was clear even then that the Muslim-advocacy groups and their left wing water carriers in the educational establishment had already corrupted the teaching of history to our children.
Sam says
Cornelius, if you refer to the article about Lauren Bauer a similar picture emerges; certain sections of the political establishment, in this case, the democrats- are willing to sanitize history, viz. 9\11. This was Quid pro quo for the crusader “massacres” but not for Khaybar (Lauren Bauer does not understand this). Erdogan, either ignores this and defines Islamic response only in the context of crusader history or he has some retribution in mind for the West(Christians) that he has been harboring for a long time…Bauer and Erdogan have an epistemology of reality dictated by an idealist world. For Bauer rules are annulled and for Erdogan a re-inaugurated- Caliph of Dar-al-Islam(World).
gravenimage says
Disgusting, Cornelius–but no surprise.
Lilith Wept says
It’s worse than you think. Cicero mentioned the destruction of Hindu temples. And the Moslem slaughter and destruction when the moslems invaded India and “Spread Islam by the sword “ defies description.
Well the moslems are trying to re-write history. You know the victors always tell the story …..well go to the website http://www.lostislamichistory.com and they are spreading the lies that Insia and it’s people welcomed the moslems who were viewed as liberators and that Islam was not spread by the sword….that people were offered the choice to convert to the “one true religion” ….what moslems don’t say is ….if you refused to convert , moslems killed you, and that’s what moslems consider to be tolerance and “no compulsion in religion”……moslems think this is really a reasonable “ notice”….convert or die!
…..And there is a book titled Lost Islamic History ( on Amazon) That is the print version of the moslems filthy lies and propaganda that is on the website of that name. ……
Who do you think is being Common Core? It’s Islam, Common Core has ties to Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Libya…..This is what Islammos over represented, and it’s histkry sugar coated , whitewashed , omitted and just plain lied about …and why Christianity and Judaism is under represented, limited to just a page or so, and Christian and Jewish history’s violence and bloodshed, etc is over emphasized and taken out of contex ….and Islam is portrayed as being victimized by Christianity and Judaism, ……
This is how Moslems try and brainwash our children. So they will be sunbissive and compliant when the Moslem population in America is large enough or strong enough to try and take over. In the meantime it’s helping moslems in spreading sympathy for Islam, portraying moslems as persecuted, and the good guys, whole Christianity and Judaism are the warmongering oppressors.
Moslems are patient in working towaed their goals, and their goal is to take the Western countries they were prevented from taking before….. and unless we do something drastic, they will keep work g away forward that goal. . The Muslim Brotherhood memo that was found by the FBI during the Holy Land Charity trial outlines Civilization Jihad and that is EXACTLY what’s happening in America. ……
There won’t be a shooting war with moslems in the US, …….Instead it’s a slow creeping kind of infiltration……kind of like a cancer….you see some of it but most you don’t, until,it’s spread way to far to remove or treat and it kills you.
Charles says
Kamal wanted Turkey and the former Ottoman Empire to reject the anachronisms of theological rule and embrace secularism. If he had succeeded in Turkey and in Syria and in Iraq, we would have a different set of headlines today. It seems Sisi of Egypt is following his lead, and is still struggling against MB operatives.
gravenimage says
Largely true, Charles.
But just like Al Sisi, Attaturk was happy to wink at Muslim violence against Christians and other Infidels.
utis says
Islam — fighting for the right to practice their religion, which includes the command to keep everyone else from practicing their own religion.
gabi says
An old Orthodox profecy claim than Constantinople will be Greek again; 1/3 of Turkish people will die, 1/3 will leave Anatolia and the rest will return to Orthodoxy – because many of todays’ Turks have Greek&other origins and before Muslim conquest of Byzantin territories, they were Christians. Of course the muslim conquest of Anatolia in Xth-XIVth century was like we see today in different parts of the world: rivers of blood, barbaric behaviour, djizya and/or forced islamisations of local Christian/non-muslim population. So, we can’t expect any “peace” from them: in fact, we are in a never-ended WAR for souls! They have oil, money, mosques everywhere, imams who tell them it’s their right&duty to kill non-muslims, they hate us and also they have enough jihadists who’ll put all these into facts. What do we have, flower-power? refugees welcome? a corrupt clergy and useful idiots who love petrodollars more than God+Jesus+Holy Spirit = Holy Trinity? Sorry, but WE MUST WAKE UP!