This happened in Australia. What are the odds that the people interviewed in this video will become loyal, productive members of Australian society, upholding the freedom of speech as the foundation of a free society?
“‘There are only two choices, Islam or death’: Ex-Muslim walks through Lakemba asking locals if it’s OK to criticise their religion – and gets some VERY strong responses,” by Laura Hedges, Daily Mail Australia, September 19, 2018 (thanks to The Religion of Peace):
A former Muslim has taken to the multicultural streets of Lakemba in Sydney’s west to ask local believers whether it is okay for people to criticise their religion.
Iranian-born author Armin Navabi visited Lakemba – considered Australia’s unofficial Muslim capital – to act out the controversial social experiment.
Mr Navabi, an ex-Muslim now living in Canada, was told by one man that non-believers faced ‘Islam or death’ – while another Muslim said police should ‘attack’ those who mock their faith.
Others interviewed said they encouraged discussions about their Muslim faith, but stressed the importance of approaching the topic with the ‘utmost respect’….
Many of the locals interviewed in the video took the stance that they were open to discussion and dialogue around their faith.
‘We live in a democratic country. We criticise other people when they do the wrong thing. Why are we immune from that?’ one person said.
The majority stressed it was important for any criticism or questions to be posed with the utmost respect.
‘Everything is criticisable, with respect,’ another man said.
‘Especially because religion is a sensitive topic for everyone.’
After further questioning of one man, Mr Navabi was told he believes the Muslim community eventually wants Sharia Law to be established worldwide.
‘100 per cent that is my goal – and every Muslim’s goal. To establish Sharia law on earth,’ the man claimed.
Mr Navabi questioned whether this meant ‘somebody like me’ who had turned his back on Islam would be ‘killed’ if Sharia law was in place.
‘That’s Sharia law, that’s what I believe in,’ the man stated.
‘There’s two choices, Islam or death.’
Another man said that anyone who criticised Islam should be attacked by police.
‘If people criticise then it’s bad yeah, and the police need to attack them,’ the man said.
Mr Navabi also spoke with a local sheikh who said he was open to questions about Islam as he hoped it would help answer any misconceptions people have.
But when Mr Navabi asked if it was okay to ‘mock’ Islam, the sheikh’s response took a turn.
‘When somebody comes and mocks any religion and they say that my intention inside was a good thing, there’s not one scenario in the entire globe where you mock somebody for the sake of goodness,’ he said.
He said that anyone who finds it normal to mock and laugh at other people have ‘lost human morality’ and ‘lost all senses of being a human’.
When Mr Navabi then stated his own opinion that mocking somebody formed part of freedom of expression, the sheikh called it ‘most disgusting’….
mortimer says
Liars cannot compete with FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
Liars require CONTROLLED SPEECH and CONTROLLED INFORMATION, because otherwise their lies will be found out and EXPOSED.
Leftards and Muslims need to CONTROL their PREPOSTEROUS narrative that Islam is BENIGN.
The Muslim guy said it straight: “ISLAM OR DEATH”.
There is NO FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION in Islam… there is NO PERSONAL CHOICE in Islam.
K.33.36 – It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision.
Andy says
If it is either ISLAM OR DEATH
I’ll choose DEATH
BUT,
YOU will have to kill me first and I don’t plan on going easy ISLAM!
One of the greatest Generals who has ever lived said:
“No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making some other poor dumb bastard die for his country”.
George S. Patton
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_S._Patton%27s_speech_to_the_Third_Army
I wish we had more MEN (George S. Patton) like this today instead of Soy-Boy’s who are leading some Judeo-Christian Heritage Nations around the world!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRPZvwTRh9g
Andy says
UPDATE: Tommy Robinson back in court SEPT 27
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK-E-_aUtaI
Andy says
I saw this comment by Hello, Sidney!
When white people settle where non white people are, it’s called “Colonization.” When non white people settle where white people are, it’s called “diversity.”
Rarely says
Stupid comment Andy. Showing a tad of racism.
CogitoErgoSum says
I remember a word from the past that once was popular — integration. I don’t hear it used very much anymore.
Andy says
Meanwhile in Canada, Soy Boy Trudeau has millions of dollars to give Terrorists but can’t cough up any money for Veterans who have served there country for service dogs.
EXCLUSIVE: Veterans denied service dogs despite gov’t report showing ‘significant’ reduction in PTSD
https://globalnews.ca/news/4463518/veterans-with-ptsd-denied-service-dogs-despite-positive-study/
also, In Canada more brainwashing from leftie/liberals on children.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq2LAhSiomw
Andy says
+1
CogitoErgoSum
I also remember the “integration” word. I guess it is just a word now, because most of the leftie/liberals just want to promote everyone else in the world’s “diversity” but they don’t ever say INTEGRATION!
StellaSaidSo says
In saner times, integration meant the newcomer adapting to the host culture. Now, the host is expected to adapt to the newcomer. WE, not they, must do the integrating. And if we refuse to bend over backwards to accommodate their demands, we are ‘racists’ or ‘nazis’ or ‘fascists’ – three more words whose meanings have been distorted.
Lydia Church says
Andy is 100% correct, I see the double standard everywhere and I’m no racist. I must confess that I was created as a white woman by God. And living in a predominantly non white area, I do get a lot of dirty looks of hostility coming from those south of the border, just for taking up breathing space in a store! And no, I’m not exaggerating. And I do nothing to instigate it, I’m one of those ‘nice as pie’ types that you only find now in the old movies… you know… the ones that make room for you coming on the freeway, or the grocery aisle, even with a smile, being a good Samaritan, all of that. But still…. the hate comes from them. It is sad! I think many have been brainwashed by so much propaganda and it suits their egos to swallow all these lies. Like ‘white privilege’! Hah! Give me a break! Where’s my welfare handout, medical benefits, and food stamps as well as free meals at school for kids and education for me just for popping out 10 kids out of wedlock! What hogwash.
Andy says
+1
Stella & Lydia
Great comments
Totally agree 100%
gravenimage says
Rarely, how is Andy wrong?
Rarely says
How? I’ll address a number of comments, not just his.
1) Andy’s comment re: “colonialism” and “integration”, other than being inaccurate historically because it deals with two totally different time periods, he equates “diversity” with skin colour and/or race when those are the least important distinguishing features of diversity. Consequently it looks to me like mere racism.
2) “Integration” in my day referred to bringing African Americans into the mainstream by removing the barriers. The 1st I’ve heard of “integrating newcomers” is in relationship to muslims. In “saner” times the “newcomers” we had to integrate were whites from Western Europe who made up the largest group of immigrants — not exactly a big challenge.
Don’t get all teary eyed because the muslims aren’t integrating fast enough for you. Hell, it took the Irish and Italians a couple generations and most cities still have a Chinatown and/or Little Italy.
The problem isn’t slow integration it is the adherence to a set of values that appear to be diametrically opposed to the Judeo-Christian ethic on which Canada and the US are supposedly perched.
3) It seems that Lynda lives in a predominantly Mexican-American neighbourhood and gets some “hateful” stares when she is out shopping. Fortunately she reports that nothing eventful has happened yet except the stares and I wish her to remain safe. I suspect that there is more than one store where Mexican Americans get the same sort of stares. Not that one justifies the other.
4) Andy wants integration now and opposes diversity. I suppose it would be simpler if all Americans (or Canadians – I live in Canada) were the same but, even if that was desirable it isn’t going to happen anytime soon (if at all) — with or without muslims. And yes diversity is a good thing, a very good thing and the US and Canada are lucky to have as much diversity as we do. BUT the pro-diversity argument should not be used to facilitate admitting immigrant groups that advocate our destruction. That’s a little bit too much diversity.
That’s enough to swallow for now.
StellaSaidSo says
Andy is right. The West IS being colonised, and the Left calls it ‘diversity’. (Funny how they don’t demand that more Africans go to Japan, or more Welshmen go to Zimbabwe. Only the West needs ‘diversity’, apparently.) I don’t think anyone here objects to ‘diversity’ per se, but we are opposed to the continued, uncontrolled immigration into our countries of people who hate us, and who expect us to conform to their values, rather than them adapting to ours, as was customary in the past, and still is, with every other culture/ethnicity, except Muslims.
Nobody is getting ‘teary-eyed’ because ‘Muslims aren’t integrating fast enough’. But everyone should be concerned that Muslims don’t integrate at all. While the hard-liners have the upper hand, there will be no integration: the Koran forbids it, as, in turn, does the Muslim Brotherhood. There is no example in history of Muslims living as equals with kuffar when they have sufficient numbers to dominate.
gravenimage says
Rarely wrote:
Don’t get all teary eyed because the muslims aren’t integrating fast enough for you. Hell, it took the Irish and Italians a couple generations and most cities still have a Chinatown and/or Little Italy.
………………….
I don’t think that anyone here has a problem with kebab shops., The problem is with Muslims raping and murdering us in Jihad with the aim of imposing brutal Shari’ah law.
I don’t recall the Chinese or Italians doing that…
Andy says
+1
I couldn’t agree more, GI.
Great comment.
Andy says
Meanwhile in Canada Soy Boy Trudeau can give murdering Terrorists Millions of dollars but can’t cough up enough money for service dogs for Veterans with PTSD.who served there country. Unlike Trudeau and his draft dodger dad PET.
Canada’s ‘draft dodger’ PM
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/second-reading/canadas-draft-dodger-pm/article4290247/
Canadian Prime Minister Pierre Elliott Trudeau was once banned from entering the U.S.
https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/57igkh/canadian_prime_minister_pierre_elliott_trudeau/
EXCLUSIVE: Veterans denied service dogs despite gov’t report showing ‘significant’ reduction in PTSD
https://globalnews.ca/news/4463518/veterans-with-ptsd-denied-service-dogs-despite-positive-study/
Andy says
Patriot coffee ☕️????????????
The BRCC Family
Black Rifle Coffee Company is veteran owned an operated. We proudly bring you the best coffee in the country, delivered by the finest team there is. Thank you for your support.
The Rise of the Conservative Coffee Shops!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDxSXozJuu8
gravenimage says
I’d patronize them.
Andy says
+1
Elisha says
Seriously, Andy, you should start your own website and stop hijacking people’s posts for your own ego. Get help.
gravenimage says
Most of Andy’s links–the rare one above notwithstanding–are about the threat of Jihad. Why should anyone have to “get help” for this?
Andy says
Thanks again GI for the encouragement.
😉
StellaSaidSo says
Most of the Muslims questioned were open to criticism of Islam. But those who were not were uncompromising – no criticism, definitely no mocking, sharia for everyone, and death to apostates. Much the same range of opinion as one finds in any Islamic precinct. As usual, the beard and/or costume provide a clue to the politics.
Kessler says
He should have asked if it’s ok to mock and criticize Muhammad- whether cartoonists should be punished. Whether there should be media censorship and whether we should abide to Islamic blasphemy laws in the West. THIS is what makes even the most “moderate muslims see red and brings out their real Jihad aspirations
StellaSaidSo says
I agree, Kessler, and I am often frustrated by the failure of interviewers to ask obvious questions. But I am very glad that so many young people – especially ex-Muslims – are stepping up to the plate, microphone in hand. They will improve with practice!
Frank Anderson says
Stella, do you believe an interviewer could be prepared to survive the RAGE his questions could produce? Asking obvious questions can get one beaten or killed.
StellaSaidSo says
Frank, I have been interviewing people for 40 years and I’m still here.
Obviously, one uses one’s judgement.
Frank Anderson says
Stella, I am quite happy that you are here. One of my great pleasures was to know exactly what questions to ask in the courtroom, with armed US Marshals in place, to get people to tell the truth, especially lawyers that I put on the witness stand and forced to testify against their clients. On the street, a lone interviewer who fails to keep his questions less confrontational will get hurt. That is not necessary when the answer is already known.
StellaSaidSo says
Thankyou, Frank. Obviously, the more heat that a question is likely to generate, the more careful one must be in framing it. Of course there are risks on the street, but a ‘lone interviewer’ is rarely alone. The point of asking an ‘awkward’ question is not merely to get an answer (whether you know it already or not), but to get it from ‘the horse’s mouth’, on tape and on camera.
Frank Anderson says
Stella, I love recorders catching people in the act of being themselves. I’ve been doing it since 1973 and continue to this day. HD dashcams work miracles, especially with GPS attachments.
StellaSaidSo says
Frank, there is some great footage on YouTube of people seriously ‘caught out’ by dash-cams. Worth a look if you’ve got time!
Frank Anderson says
Stella, I have a surgically repaired neck that will break and either kill or paralyze me if I am hit at any speed over a crawl. I get videos of attempted murder several times each time I drive. The law regarding “following too closely” is routinely not enforced. So I slow down to keep the speed and energy involved commensurate with the distance I’m being followed. Naturally I am prepared with all other reasonable and necessary defensive measures. Local law enforcement is useless on this violation.
Krishna says
Keep posting more videos
Walter Sieruk says
The only real reason that Islam is not to be criticized is because Islam is such such a weak and fragile religion that it can stand up to or hold up to criticism, at all. No matter how very mild those criticisms might be.
Furthermore,in classical work of ancient Greek literature, by Plato, entitled THE APOLOGY OF SOCRATES it in written that Socrates had said that “An unexamined life is not worth living.” Likewise, in may also be said that “An unexamined religion is not worth believing in.” This is said about all religions. Yet to be specific, in this case, the topic is about the religion of Islam. Furthermore, one man who was as a former a Muslim and had lived in one of the Islamic nations of the Middle East but now he is Christian and an American citizen had explained in a book he wrote that “Driving into depths of the word of reasoned thinking and research in Islamic societies has always been costly. Some Muslim who have done this have even been excluded from their social rights and even sentenced to death.” [1]
[1] ISLAM AND THE SON OF GOD by Daniel Shayesteh page 70.
Notmoron says
Those muslims who agree to criticize islam are TAQQUIA practitioners.
StellaSaidSo says
Not necessarily. Some are potential apostates. Accepting the idea that it’s ok to question, to doubt, or to criticise is the first step towards the light.
Vann Boseman says
That seems to be the case here from appearances.The interviewer’s question often to evoke a confused response. It is impossible to know what is in someone’s heart. Spencer’s headline is not generally substantiated by the video. Most Muslims in the video when pressed express a tolerance for criticism of Islam. However, the question he raises about the people interviewed is a good one and it is easy to imagine the viewer answering in the negative.
Carol the 1st says
Navari occasionally got defensive answers that revealed more concern for their creed than for the innocent people it harms and infringes upon. 95% brainwashed blockheads. Navabi himself doesn’t seem quite out of the woods with Islam (he was so susceptible to tales of hellfire as a youth that he attempted suicide before 15 in order to escape it).
If Navabi weren’t still a little oddly spellbound he surely would have gotten great indigestion from the “kindly” meal he stupidly accepted from the big, intellectual sport who quite unashamedly told him he should be killed under Sharia law. Give us a break.
Emilie Green says
‘We live in a democratic country. We criticise other people when they do the wrong thing. Why are we immune from that?’ one person said.
—–
Not Muslim material; views world with common sense.
mortimer says
ASK MUSLIMS THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS:
-the Sunna (sacred example) of Mohammed says that Muslims must be punished or killed if they leave Islam. Do you agree with this?
-Mohammed was an assassin of pagans, Christians and Jews who verbally did not agree with him. Do you agree with Mohammed’s example of political assassination when people express their difference of opinion?
-Mohammed repeatedly advised Muslims to deceive kafirs to advance Islam. The Koran has over 90 verses that say Mohammed is the example for Muslims to follow. Do you follow the example of Mohammed in deceiving kafirs?
-The Koran, the Sunna of Mohammed and all schools of Sharia law say that the husband may beat his wife. Do you beat your wife?
– Sharia law says that Islam must fight, subdue, humble and politically rule over the kafirs (non-Muslims). Do you agree that kafirs should be ‘humbled’ and subdued?
-According to accepted Islamic sources, Mohammed at the age of 49 married a six-year-old girl, and had sex with her when he was 52 and she was only 9 years old. Why do you approve of his pedophilia?
– Sharia law discriminates against women and kafirs. Do you agree that women and non-Muslims should have fewer rights than Muslim males do?
– Koran 98.6 says that disbelievers are the ‘vilest of all creatures’ and K.8.55 calls disbelievers ‘the worst of animals’. What hope is there of harmonious coexistence when Islam teaches this dehumanizing attitude to non-Muslims?
-a fundamental principle of Judaism and Christianity is called the ‘Golden Rule’. It says, ‘Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.’ However, Koran 48.29 says, ‘Those who follow him (Mohammed) are ruthless to the disbelievers, but merciful to one another.’ Do you think Muslims should be ‘HARSH’ with non-Muslims or is the Koran wrong about that?
gravenimage says
+1
LytchZam says
“The Koran, the Sunna of Mohammed and all schools of Sharia law say that the husband may beat his wife. Do you beat your wife?”
Ask a Muslim in America when they stopped beating their wives.
Carol the 1st says
Can’t wait for the reply “Only with a sterilized toothbrush and she says I cut a comic figure.”
TWG says
Mortimer
This is an excellent list of questions. I particularly like the way in which you prefaced the question with what the quran says.
The awful truth says
If we allow them that criticising religion is impolite, why is it that Sharia states are the ONLY countries in the world where people can be killed for blasphemy and infidels are attacked at any provocation? When they say it’s impolite to critise religion, it only applies to one in particular. That’s all.
gravenimage says
*Exactly*. And hearing this from Muslims is absurd–they are *always* condemning and slandering other faiths–and calling for violence against their practitioners.
CogitoErgoSum says
That was priceless when the ex-Muslim was told that he was very dangerous because he knew Islam.
StellaSaidSo says
‘…the unbeliever knows his Koran best…’ (from the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam)
Carol the 1st says
The Koran! well, come put me to the test—
Lovely old book in hideous error drest—
Believe me, I can quote the Koran too,
The unbeliever knows his Koran best.
Khayyam’s verse about the “maggots” is pretty explicit too. And here’s a verse that should be placed under the nose of the affronted imam who told Navari how very, very terrible mockery was:
Close your Koran.
Think in freedom and look with open mind
at Heaven and Earth. Give the poor that pass you by
half of your possessions. Forgive everyone his sins.
Don’t cause anyone grief. And don’t mock anyone.
I’m sure mocking foolishness is absolutely excellent – but we might consider going a little easier on the fool.
Carol the 1st says
…if only to calm him down a bit.
gravenimage says
+1
dan christensen says
Bona fide islamic logic, applied by christians:
Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth => There are only two choices, christianity or deportation.
CogitoErgoSum says
You are going to have to explain that comment to me in more detail. I’m not following your logic.
gravenimage says
Dan, Christians are not involved in forced conversions, if that is what you are saying.
Indiana Tom says
Not lately at any rate.
Carol the 1st says
I’d possibly settle for decency and disentanglement OR deportation.
Rarely says
Most people would not sit idly by while someone antagonistic to their religion mocked it. Healthy people would not be willing to discuss their beliefs at all with a person with that attitude and would simply walk away. One’s attitude has to be respectful or no discussion will occur. I don’t need to justify my beliefs to anyone in a society where there is Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Religion.
I only need to justify (or defend, as the case may be) my actions.
No muslim has to defend his wish for the world to be 100% muslim and ruled by sharia law anymore than an Evangelical Christian needs to justify his wish that the entire world turn to Christianity and that the laws be based on Christian principles.
Some people might call that Freedom of Conscience.
CogitoErgoSum says
He has to justify only his actions. I would agree with that. So if I am my criticism of Islam is justifiable then the Muslim would NOT be justified in doing violence to me.
CogitoErgoSum says
Wait, no, the Muslim could find something in the Quran to justify his attacking me, such as verse 9:29, and his justification would be just as valid as mine because both our actions could be justified based on our religion and if each religion is just as valid as the other because they both require faith the problem would be “faith” itself as a concept …. so actions made justifiable by religious “faith” should be illegal. Therefore, speaking ill of another religion should be illegal and no Muslim should ever be allowed to criticize or speak in a derogatory manner toward another religion based upon the Quran. This could be a problem because Islam involves getting rid of all other religions as a duty to Allah, the god of Islam (also known as Submission) and they are required to fight you over that.
Carol the 1st says
Nonsense. As Dr. Warner might say “your freedom ends where my nose begins”.
He also says something to the effect that your “religion” involves you but when it involves me it becomes your politics and it is thus *entirely* my concern.
StellaSaidSo says
Indeed, people are free to believe whatever nonsense they like, but they are not free to act on those beliefs if such actions impinge on the rights and freedoms of others.
None of us has the right to not be offended. Anyone who cannot tolerate having their ideas or beliefs mocked should either develop a thicker skin, or avoid stand-up comedians, cartoon competitions, and bad reviews.
Rarely says
If you or your religion is being mocked you would be a fool to debate or argue with the “mocker”. Although it is wrong (and a crime to do so) the “mockee” may just punch the “mocker” in the face…or worse. And yes he did ask for it.
Stella, your opinion may offend me and, of course, that’s just fine. I am not required to enter any debate on it or discuss the matter with you. I have no right to not be offended. But if you are stating your honest opinion just to provoke me you are being a jerk. Why would you do that?
But mockery goes further than stating your opinion, much further. I am not advocating in any sense that mockery should be illegal until it crosses the line into inciting violence. An appropriate response would be to ignore the “mocker” but the “mocker” should be aware that the “mockee” may be so offended that an assault may occur. The ‘mocker” should also be aware, when mocking islam that some muslims tend to be more easily driven over the edge. In fact many are just like rabid dogs. By its very nature “mockery” intends to “provoke” o no one should be surprised when it does.
StellaSaidSo says
@Rarely
Are you serious? Inciting violence is already illegal. If someone becomes violent simply because somebody mocked him, he is entirely at fault. Hurt feelings are no excuse for committing GBH.
Rarely says
Stella
Of course the attacker is 100% wrong, will have committed a crime, and should be charged, convicted and jailed. No amount of mockery legally justifies an assault. That having been said, I’ve heard that it’s a pretty stupid thing to lead with your chin — not just bad form.
Understand that? And yes, I’m 100% serious.
Frank Anderson says
Rarely, please do some reading on “provocation” and assault. Provocation can either reduce or eliminate an assault charge in some cases. That of course varies from place to place. I think you are neither entirely correct or entirely in error. But provocation can be a defense in some assault cases. Please consult a currently licensed attorney practicing in your jurisdiction for any legal advice.
gravenimage says
Actually, Christians and other people of faith debate mockers all the time. And no–I have not heard of Christians assaulting those who mock their beliefs. I’m not saying it has never happened, but it is not common, nor does Christianity teach any such thing.
Islam certainly does, though.
Rarely says
Frank.
My point isn’t on the legal point or about what may mitigate an assault. ( I used to practice law but civil litigation only, never criminal law so I’m very rusty on it.)
I’m simply saying that if a person wants to discuss someone else’s religion with them it’s a good idea to do so respectfully or the desired discussion is very unlikely to take place.
Although we have the right to mock anything we want (for the most part), anyone who is stupid enough to do so in dangerous circumstances should not be surprised when something bad happens. Mockery is designed to provoke antagonism so the mocker should not be surprised when it does.
I thought things like not leading with one’s chin were pretty self-evident.
Frank Anderson says
Rarely, I have a light mixture of civil and criminal matters. There are some, not many cases where assaults have been provoked to the point that “normal” rules bend. Where collaborators rule, provocation as a defense is more likely in my opinion to succeed in an assault charge where an offended muslim attacks an infidel..
Carol the 1st says
Rarely…It’s the muslim character and psyche that are of interest. Their ideology has straightforward, unethical, and absurd premises so I’d waste no time at all hunting about for a golden egg. Give us a break. The world doesn’t hang on Moe’s every breath!
gravenimage says
Rarely, mockery is not necessarily intended to provoke antagonism–it can also be used to expose the absurdity or evil of an ideology.
For instance during WWII, many of the cartoons and songs mocking the Fascists were not expected to be seen by the Nazis at all.
Carol the 1st says
Humor is a safety valve and a healthy way to relieve stress in a complicated world. It’s entirely the right of free humans to engage in it as it is a very “commiserating” sport.
Rarely seems to view it instead as “mean-spirited” mockery. If it’s done face to face it could escalate into feelings of being personally attacked and he’s likely correct in suggesting that’s not the best forum. Muslims however prefer that there be no “forum” at all (except on their ‘entitled’ terms. It’s therefore much more fun and sporting to snicker just within earshot and pass the word along to the open-minded.
Also there are nuances between being satirical and being sardonic:
SATIRICAL – implies that the intent of the ridiculing is censure and reprobation (well-placed on Islam’s shoulders)
SARDONIC – implies scorn, mockery, or derision that is manifested by either verbal or facial expression (invariably justified but best done indirectly),
Carol the 1st says
Rarely…a laugh is a tip-off to each other that some kind of human tomfoolery or cosmic mirth is gadding about. Healthy individuals are relieved a little to know we’re all in the same stew and thus you get a burst of laughter. This spontaneous, enjoyable affinity is a threat to Islamic authorities (as proof just look at how they try to stamp out free and serious distractions like romance and the female form etc.)
Another side of this intolerance and lack of gratitude (for having their balloons threatened or punctured) probably relates to the psychopathic side of Islam. That side would have little or no grasp of humor. Here’s an example: All humans generally yawn when they see a fellow human yawn. It’s a sympathetic response. The PSYCHOPATHIC PERSONALITY is an exception to this however. He does not yawn and the reason is that the NORMAL AFFINITY WITH HIS FELLOWS IS MISSING.
Muhammad wasn’t too fond of humor was he?
StellaSaidSo says
In a free society, there are no ideas which are exempt from criticism, including religious beliefs. Mockery/ridicule/satire/’taking the p*ss’ are legitimate expressions of criticism, the whole point of which is to be provocative. Most people enjoy a laugh, even at their own expense. Catholics loved Dave Allen and ‘Father Ted’. Muslims unfortunately have little in the way of a SOH (nothing funny about Islam, according to the Ayatollah Khomeini), and some are prone to murderous rage at the sight – indeed, the mere thought – of a cartoon. (Had we put our collective foot down more firmly in 1989, when Salman Rushdie found himself the target of assassins, we might not be fighting this very same battle today.)
If an idea is any good, it will withstand criticism. If it isn’t, it won’t. Which is why Islam needs blasphemy laws.
Frank Anderson says
Stella, we agree on that.
StellaSaidSo says
BTW, Rarely, I agree ‘it’s pretty stupid to lead with your chin.’ But if you read my initial post 2:36 pm, you will see that I was not referring to the sort of behaviour casually aimed at provoking fisticuffs, but to genuine criticism delivered in a humorous manner, eg cartoons.
Frank Anderson says
From all I understand, and as usual ask for better information, there is no levity, humor, or joy in islam. This life is to be one of solemn misery at all times. Therefor humor, like many of our “insults”, is lost on muslims. They just don’t get it, don’t care, and won’t make any effort to change or understand.
StellaSaidSo says
Frank, one of the saddest stories to come to my attention was that of the Australian-born Muslim girl whose father beat her for ‘laughing too loudly’.
gravenimage says
Agreed, Stella and Frank–Islam deserves to be mocked.
I also agree that there is no joy in Islam.
Rarely says
Mock all you want, about anything, but don’t expect the person being mocked to stand there meekly and take it.
That islam does not enjoy the self-deprecating humour which is so popular in the West is its loss. Similarly the prohibition against dancing by some Christian sects is their problem.
gravenimage says
Rarely, pious Muslims want to impose Shari’ah bans on criticizing Islam *on us*, here in the West.
And no, not everyone who is mocked reacts with violence. I have been mocked as a vegetarian, an animal lover, a Californian, a San Franciscan, a Berkeley alumnus, a voter for several candidates and initiatives, an Anti-Jihadist, and several other things a few times over the years. Never have I contemplated reacting to such mockery with violence.
Frank Anderson says
GI, a feeble attempt at humor, which for me rarely works: Why don’t you respond with violence? Because in addition to things people find “funny” you are a civilized, thinking, thoughtful and patient human being among other human beings instead of a beast. Unfortunately according to Nietzsche, if I understand correctly, when dealing with beasts/monsters, we must be careful not to become a beast/monster in the process. Complicated? You should try this new keyboard! IT is complicated.
gravenimage says
Agreed, Frank.
And you are right that we have to be careful not to become the thing we hate.
But we were able to defeat the Nazis without becoming genocidal fascist thugs, so I do believe we can face down Islam without becoming like the Jihadists.
And good luck with your new keyboard! 🙂
Frank Anderson says
GI I was not aware of the brutal post war conduct of Nazi “werewolves” and the necessary treatment of those unlawful terrorist combatants that was required to stop a year or so of killing. There was a one hour program on the subject, which naturally I recorded to watch again. It seems to me that two alternatives exist, treatment as ordinary criminals and treatment as unlawful combatants.
We see every day all over the world how useless criminal law treatment is in preventing repeats. The legal system is loaded to bankruptcy and stalemate. Another hero is created. Another family gets rewarded for the hero committing the crime. More people dead. And another hero is begging to take his place. The process repeats without end.
We see when Israel started targeted killing of terrorist leaders in response to suicide bombings, so that the facilitators and motivations, the real bad guys, paid the price along with their stooges, the bombings stopped. So, I think it is at least arguable that two examples exist of how to stop terrorism instead of just accepting it and letting it continue to kill without limit. Being a monster may be a practical necessity to stop monsters. Monsters do not understand civility and kindness as anything but weakness and an invitation to exploit.
Lavéritétriomphera says
Freedom of speech does not exist in totalitarian system by definition. The leader is always right, the others follow. And whoever revolts may be brutalized by the muscled bully of the flock. Their motto could be: “obey and shut up”.
Carol the 1st says
Right, and muslim totalitarianism is the most colourful and dramatic. “Might makes right” and the most loud-mouthed bully wins. This is why their televised religious and political “debates” quickly escalate into hilarious turmoil with chairs a-flying and lots of mother and wife-bashing thrown in. Jerry Springer should get them on his show.
Lydia Church says
The only plus here is the honesty.
Like that saying goes during the American Revolution:
“Give me liberty, or give me death!” Patrick Henry
I will die a Christian.
We don’t impose such evil murders upon others.
Lydia Church says
Here comes a little more love for the skeptics:
Evolution is actually false and not proven as scientific fact, but rather purposefully constructed to deceive.
Here are some cold hard facts coming from scientific reason:
LIST OF SCIENTIFIC LAWS THAT REFUTE EVOLUTION:
1. Law of Energy Conservation (1st Law of Thermodynamics).
2. Law of Increasing Entropy (2nd Law of Thermodynamics).
3. Law of Biogenesis (Life begats life after it’s own kind).
4. Law of Causality-Teleology (purposeful cause, intelligent design).
5. Law of Specified Information (such as DNA language system).
6. Law of Irreducible Complexity (All or nothing functionality).
7. Law of Rationality (Draw conclusions based on evidence).
8. Law of Probability (zero possibility for evolution due to violated scientific laws).
Examples of errors in scientific reasoning regarding evolution:
1. Nothing produces everything.
2. Non reason produces reason.
3. Randomness produces fine tuning.
4. Non life produces living organisms.
5. Chaos produces ordered complexity.
6. Unconsciousness produces consciousness.
7. Blind chance produces uniform predictability.
8. Mindless matter produces instructional information.
And….there is much more!
There are many Creation science organizations to look into for researching the subject more.
Don’t be deceived by the lie of evolution!
There is a God, the God of the Christian Bible, He loves us, Jesus died for our sins… and there is suffering and evil in the world because we have a free will and at the fall of man: sin, sickness, death, and decay entered in because man chose to listen to the devil rather than God.
I’ll be out for the rest of the day so skip the replies.
( :
dan christensen says
Successful evolution is nothing but random mutations combined with excellent compatibility between decendants of mutated being and its environment. God is probability and statistics.
StellaSaidSo says
+1
Reasonable Christians accept the ToE as ‘God’s way of doing things’, and give Him all the credit.
There are no ‘scientific laws’ that ‘refute evolution’. Only a lot of desperate people who don’t understand how the process works.
CogitoErgoSum says
Some believe that an endless number of universes exist for every outcome possible. That is, there may be a universe in which you never read these words, and there may be a universe in which you were never even born and a universe in which you are President of the USA. These universes may exist all at the same time and your consciousness may jump from universe to universe depending upon each choice you make. I do believe that something can not come from nothing because true “nothing” would not have anything there to be the cause of something. Either there was always something or there was always nothing. Since we are here there must have always been something. What was it and where did consciousness come from? Did it always exist also? Great questions that religions try to answer.
PRCS says
Well, Lydia, when you return:
What does all that have to do with resisting Islam’s ultimate goal?
As an atheist, should I just stay on the sidelines and let Christians take care of that?
This is not a ‘come to Jesus’ site.
StellaSaidSo says
+1
gravenimage says
Good questions, PRCS.
And not all Christians reject science–most do not.
Rarely says
Lynda.
Very interesting.
Now where exactly did God stand when he/she/it created the Universe?
Better yet who created God?
Where did Cain and Abel find wives? Looks like a bit of incest there.
Why did Noah leave the Unicorn behind?
Why didn’t God tell Moses to hit the rock?
If God is all-powerful where does the devil get his power? Hmmm. So God could take away the devil’s power anytime He wants to. Now THAT’S something to pray for.
Whatever you do, don’t ever watch the movie “Inherent the Wind”. It has already set the record for causing spontaneous combustion.
I didn’t know this site could be so much fun.
BTW. Stephen Hawking believed in God because he couldn’t explain what happened before the BIG BANG.
Frank Anderson says
Rarely, to me every one of your questions is fair and even reasonable. I have asked many of them, and many more like them. After more than 50 years of asking the best answer I have found is the one I concluded in conducting my adopted mother’s funeral 30 years ago: “There are just some questions we cannot answer in this lifetime.” That does not stop us from asking them or seeking an answer. We don’t need to halt our progress and feel alone and abandoned because they can’t be answered when we want. For me, there is reason that I have seen to hope for the Existence and Presence of God. Even for you I share that hope, as I do for everybody. Please give us who have and need that hope some slack while you find your answers. Somebody had to do the same for us.
dan christensen says
Frank pinpoints the issue, which is that humans never can or will stop asking questions. People are capable of always asking questions.
Why, how, when, who etc.; forever and ever.
Face it – it is simply impossible not to ask questions, except for religious people who find answers to everything in their religious manuals, also called holy scriptures.
Frank Anderson says
D.C. I think it is one of the most profound teachings I heard in Judaism to ask EVERY question repeatedly. Each time a better answer, but not the perfect answer, will be found. There are no perfect answers in this life. The truth has absolutely nothing to fear from questions. That makes a lot of sense to me, I wish more people understood and applied this teaching instead of throwing people out who question their blind acceptance of the “Religion of Peace” lie.
Rarely says
Frank.
I was not seriously asking those questions. AND, although I believe strongly in God, I am not a member of any religion.
Frank Anderson says
I have not been able to find any group or denomination that can put up with me. As a Mason, I respect all that teach good, and wish to be clear of those who teach evil. I strongly believe and commend the teaching to ask every question without fear or favor because that is how we learn and use the gift of our minds from the God I believe to be in charge. People who ask questions are the most dangerous people alive to tyrants.
StellaSaidSo says
Good questions, Rarely. The film was INHERIT THE WIND, btw.
I understand there was some dispute about Hawking’s claimed conversion, but I don’t recall the details.
Rarely says
Misspelling. Apologies.
Frank Anderson says
Rarely, I hope we are not being graded here on spelling. If so, I am in trouble for a number of reasons and errors.
CogitoErgoSum says
Rarely, May I play the game?
Q. Where did God stand when he created the universe?
A. God didn’t stand anywhere because God is pure intellect and does not require a body or a place to stand.
Q. Who created God?
A. Nobody. God always existed without any beginning or end.
Q. Where did Cain and Abel get their wives?
A. From among the human-like creatures who existed before God created the first human beings with a soul.
Q. Why did Noah leave the unicorn behind.
A. I don’t know the answer to that one because I don’t know if what we call a unicorn is the same as what the Bible calls a unicorn.
Q. Why didn’t God tell Moses to hit the rock?
A. I thought God did tell Moses to hit the rock and Moses didn’t hit the rock right away or else hit it too many times.
Q. If God is all-powerful where does the devil get his power.
A. Lucifer was created by God and so Lucifer got his power ultimately from God. God gave Lucifer a free will to decide between good and evil. Lucifer chose evil. God is good.
Would God be good if God destroyed something for making a choice of its own free will? I don’t think so. That would make good no longer good in my opinion.
And lastly, I thought Hawking did NOT believe in God. If he did, that’s news to me.
I’m sure you and others have answers (and more questions) of your own. It’s a fun game.
FYI says
It’s what the Police euphemistically call a HRA,”A highly religious area”
The moslems are busy “praying” to allah ,a god who we must remember,CURSES Jews and Christians koran 9:30 and whose holy “prophet” was a mass-murdering[Abu dawud 4390}polygamist who raped a 9 year old girl…{at least according to gfficial islamic teachings}
“they should’t criticize anything” says one interviewee.
“every muslim’s goal is to establish sharia law” says another.
like.. WOW!Totalitarianism in action..Religious nazis of islam!….they want their murderously evil moslem-only planet ..and they don’t even bother with taqqiya!
Thank God I live in a HIA.
“A highly Irreligious area”
Indiana Tom says
Interfaith dialogue at its finest.
gravenimage says
Yep…
Frank Anderson says
I.T. my experience with Catholic, Protestant and Jewish dialogue is more favorable than unfavorable. But when muslims are added, and the lies, concealment and distortions flow like a storm surge to keep from offending them and having the truth told, it is time for me to leave. A relative (I believe a cousin) of my Jewish mother by choice went to the Vatican in the 1950’s (?) to help start a Christian Jewish dialogue. It was my honor for about 5 years to chauffer her to every local meeting while she was alive. I met some really first class people and learned a lot in their company. My opinion and experience. Others have every reason and right to see differently.
What is there to discuss or negotiate with “final, perfect, complete and unchangeable” islam?
gravenimage says
Agreed, Frank.
RodSerling says
Good work by Armin Navabi, but he comes across as a bit naive and overly optimistic about the value of these few on-camera interviews of a very small sample of people who were willing to talk. The fact that the Islam-or-death guy called up his sheikh brother to have a “talk” with Navabi is ominous, but Navabi seems to come out with a positive spin on this. Those who said it was okay to criticize Islam (only in limited cases and in a “respectful way”), after Navabi tried to talk them into saying that, are likely resorting to public relations reflexes in that situation.
PRCS says
“public relations reflexes”
In a nutshell.
gravenimage says
Video: Ex-Muslim asks Muslims if Islam can be criticized, is told “There are only two choices, Islam or death”
…………………………..
Armin Navabi is a *very* brave man.
More:
‘100 per cent that is my goal – and every Muslim’s goal. To establish Sharia law on earth,’ the man claimed.
Mr Navabi questioned whether this meant ‘somebody like me’ who had turned his back on Islam would be ‘killed’ if Sharia law was in place.
‘That’s Sharia law, that’s what I believe in,’ the man stated.
‘There’s two choices, Islam or death.’
…………………………..
Grimly, this is indeed how pious Muslims think–never mind that Australia is a civilized Infidel country.
More:
‘If people criticise then it’s bad yeah, and the police need to attack them,’ the man said.
…………………………..
And Islam is violently enforced by the police in Shari’ah states. These thugs want to turn Australia into a brutal theocracy.
How long will Armin Navabi and those like him be safe–in Australia or Canada?
Andy says
Not just Armin Navabi but all of us,
How long until we stop political correctness? How long until we will not be afraid of being called a racist?
How long will we allow the take over of our Judeo-Christian Heritage Nations by Islam until the tipping point when Patriots start to take the countries back from the edge of destruction brought on by Globalist elites.
How long is a good question, Patriots will have the final answer. Those who are willing to stand up and fight!
StellaSaidSo says
Andy, I got over being called a ‘racist’ years ago. I laugh out loud at ‘Islamophobe’, and explain how the word came about. I still get annoyed at ‘nazi’ though.
Frank Anderson says
Stella, when I was called a Nazi at a synagogue it was time to leave. I did. That kind of ignorance cannot be cured by anything I know.
StellaSaidSo says
I agree, Frank. Some ignorance is impervious to correction. My father and several uncles fought in WWII, and even as a child I knew that a ‘Nazi’ was a very bad thing to be.
Indiana Tom says
Wait until you are a German American. You are labelled a Nazi or Kraut 24/7.
Frank Anderson says
Stella, at that time I had been a Jew by choice for not quite 20 years, and was well known in both Reform and Conservative congregations because of my video recording work. Calling me a Nazi because I dared to mention Islam’s plan to slaughter Jews? Good time to move on. I doubt I will ever understand or stop being disappointed. I pray for them as I pray for all victims of the Holocaust.
gravenimage says
Indiana Tom wrote:
Wait until you are a German American. You are labelled a Nazi or Kraut 24/7.
…………………
Indiana Tom, my husband is of German heritage, and my married name is German. We have never had any trouble. His relatives never had any trouble, either–not even during WWII. This was even true of his grandmother, who all her life had a distinctive German accent.
gravenimage says
True, Andy.
nicholas tesdorf says
That was a very interesting set of interviews. The most revealing was when he, an ex-Muslim now atheist, was told that he was a very dangerous person because he knew about Islam. Islam is a weak and fragile religion based on shifting sands and its adherents secretly fear their ignorance the most.
sidney penny says
60 minutes reporter once asked an Australian imam if he would be happy if Australia was an Islamic country. He replied ” yes”
sidney penny says
“What are the odds that the people interviewed in this video will become loyal, productive members of Australian society, upholding the freedom of speech as the foundation of a free society?”
It is an us and them mentality.
https://www.jihadwatch.org/islam-101
Dar al-Islam and dar al-harb: the House of Islam and the House of War
Wazza says
Any Muslims saying it is ok Taqiyya
abu taleb says
Once a muslim said that we should not say bad words on religions in response of my criticism of Islam. Then I pointed out that Islam (or Quran) said bad words on Christianity. He responded by what Quran said was true (so it was ok to say that)
Typical muslim, always double standard
gravenimage says
Spot on.
J.W.K. says
Thus says the “Religion of Peace.”
Is it really so surprising?!
Wazza says
About Muslims in Australia, any other Aussies notice the amount of TV shows coming out about racism? and shows like Go Back to where you came from? all the garner sympathy for these invaders.
Q&A, SBS, ABC all are running programs that try to make us look like racist pigs, always portraying Muslims as the victims, why are we seeing shows here that are about the race riots in the US or the Rosewood event in the US tonight for example, to me they are pushing so damned hard to make people feel sorry for the immigrant, slyly getting ppl to think what happened in the US etc is what is happening here and now to Muslims. Best mate is Chinese, got full blood aboriginal in the family, so not a racist, just can see the writing on the wall about Muslims in particular. We see thousands of Aussies trying to help the drought stricken farmers, yet they make a song and dance about some Muslims assisting, glad they did, but the media must think we are morons and can’t see through their tactics
End of rant as it is like beating my head against a brick wall the get ppl to see what is going on