“They [Muslim women] don’t need you to save them from Islam. They need your respect.” Thus claims Dalia Mogahed here.
The latest iteration of the so-called “Muslim ban” was upheld by the Supreme Court in a 5-4 ruling, leading many critics to call the decision a triumph of legal technicalities over principle.
In this third version of the Trump administration’s attempt to ban citizens of several Muslim-majority countries from entering the U.S., there were some key differences that may have ultimately swung some justices in favor of upholding the executive order. One example was the omission of “honor killings,” which legal analysts pointed to as proof of biased intent in an earlier version of the travel ban.
But the perception of an allegedly inherent misogyny in Islam and its adherents is not unique to the Trump administration.
A recent study I co-authored with John Sides as part of the Democracy Fund’s Voter Study Group revealed something few thought possible: there exists a belief that liberals and conservatives actually share. The survey shows that the most salient stereotype about Americans of Islamic faith, held by liberals and conservatives alike, is that Muslims “have outdated views of women.”
A “stereotype”? Isn’t it, rather, and less tendentiously, a “view”? The phrase “allegedly inherent misogyny” casts its deliberate doubt, implying that there is no such “inherent misogyny’ in Islam. As for “outdated” views, why not describe them simply as “demeaning” views, since in Islam, they do not date. They are derived from the Qur’an, which is immutable. They cannot be updated. What should we call those who believe that, following the Qur’an, a husband has a right to beat his disobedient wife? Is such a person “outdated” in his views, or is he merely being true to the immutable Qur’an? Is he “outdated” if he believes that a Muslim husband can have up to four wives? That a husband can divorce his wife merely by uttering the triple-talaq? That a female guilty of adultery can be stoned to death? That a daughter inherits half that of a son? That a woman’s testimony is worth half that of a man? That, according to Muhammad in a famous hadith, “women are deficient in intelligence”? What does Dalia Mogahed think we should make of all that?
As an American woman who is visibly Muslim, I can personally attest to the wide prevalence of this perception, especially on the part of other women. Even among many liberals, the unquestioned assumption seems to be that I am deserving of their pity before their respect. A well-meaning woman approached me recently in a public bathroom to inform me that I was now “in America” (what?) and that I didn’t have to wear that thing on my head here.
A more creative micro-aggression came from a white woman sitting next to me at a coffee shop. Seemingly out of nowhere, she declared to an adolescent girl, who I presumed was her daughter, that she would never be subjugated to any religion that tells women they are inferior and have to wear the veil. The girl looked mortified. I hope the girl will also never be subjugated to being totally embarrassed in a public place again so her mom can feel superior to a Muslim woman she knows nothing about.
Had she taken the time to ask, rather assume to know me, she might have come to learn that I head research at a D.C. think tank, I’m an engineer by training, I went to a business school (where I was one of 20 women in a class of 150) and that I was appointed as an adviser to an American president. Also, I find great meaning and joy in my faith and choose to practice hijab as an act of religious devotion — plus, I find it empowering.
Whew! We are all suitably impressed, and by “suitably” I mean — not at all. Who cares if she “heads research at a D.C. think tank” — actually a Muslim advocacy group — and is an “engineer by training,” like 1.8 million other people in this country, and went to a business school, like hundreds of thousands of other people, one that is carefully unnamed (you can be sure it wasn’t Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, or Wharton) where (it was the business school attached to the University of Pittsburgh) she was “one of 20 women in a class of 150”? So what? And “appointed as an adviser to an American president” actually comes down to this: she was one of 25 people appointed by Obama to the White House Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships. If she had any outstanding achievements, any individual recognition, any awards, was responsible for any important policies, she would certainly have mentioned them.
Emilie Green says
“They need your respect,” says a member of the cult.
mortimer says
Yes, Emilie, but ISLAM ITSELF DOES NOT GIVE ‘RESPECT’ to WOMEN …
The hadiths of Mohammed, Islam’s MISOGYNISTIC prophet, which insult and degrade all women:
– I think that women were created for nothing but evil
– Women have ten ‘awrat (vulvas). When she gets married, the husband covers one, and when she dies the grave covers the ten (of her shameful parts)
– A straw mat in the corner of the house is preferable to a barren woman
– Women are toys, so choose (your ‘toys’)
– The woman is a toy, whoever takes her, let him care for her [or do not lose her]
– Had it not been for women, God would have truly, truly been worshipped
– Men perished the day they obeyed the women
– Obedience to a woman’s advice causes regret
– Consult women and act contrary (to it)
– Sneezing, drowsing, yawning in prayer, also menstruation, vomiting and nose-bleeding are from Satan
– When…your affairs are in the hands of your women, the interior of the earth (hell) will be the better for you than its surface
– If a woman offered one of her breasts to be cooked and the other to be roasted, she still will fall short of fulfilling her obligations to her husband. And besides that if she disobeys her husband even for a twinkling of an eye, she would be thrown in the lowest part of Hell, except she repents and turns back
– Mohammed asked some women, “Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half that of a man?” The women said, “Yes,” He said, “This is because of the deficiency of the woman’s mind.”
– I have not seen any one more deficient in intelligence and religion than you (women)
– I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers are women.
– Bad omen is in the woman, the house and the horse
– After me I have not left any affliction more harmful to men than women
– Don’t wear false hair for Allah sends His curse upon such ladies who lengthen their hair artificially
– Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur’an
– Women, slaves and camels are same
– Prayer is annulled by a dog, a donkey and a woman
– If you relax the woman’s bridle a tiny bit, she will take you and bolt wildly. And if you lower her cheek-piece a hand span, she will pull you an arm’s length … Their deception is awesome and their wickedness is contagious; bad character and feeble mind are their predominant traits
– “[A man’s wife] fears him, while he fears her not, a kind word from him satisfies her, where nothing of hers has importance in his eyes, it is she who must tolerate the presence of concubines, and it is she who worries when he is ill whereas even her death would leave him indifferent
– If a man calls his wife to his bed and she refuses, and he spends the night angry with her, the angels curse her until morning
– Treat women well, for they are [like] domestic animals [awan] with you and do not possess anything for themselves. You have taken them only as a trust from God and you have made the enjoyment of their persons lawful by the word of God, so understand and listen to my words…
– Muhammad’s last words on women during his farewell speech:
– God allows you to put them in separate rooms and to beat them but not with severity. If they refrain from these things they have the right to their food and clothing with kindness. Lay injunctions on women kindly, for they are prisoners with you having no control- of their persons. (Sirat Rasul Allah. Translated in English by A. Guillaume. First published by Oxford University Press, London in 1955)
mortimer says
QUESTION FOR Dalia Mogahed …
Which of the above HADITHS of MOHAMMED are “UP-TO-DATE” and suitable for today’s women? Or are they ALL “outdated”?
ronyvo says
AND, I have another question for Dalia:
Would you define RESPECT as you understand it.
Well, and another question:
When you Muslim women start to cover your selves with all those different attires? I left Egypt the start of 1960s and have never seen women covered like that for 25 years? When I went back in early 90s I witnessed the ugliness all over. Now, you are all over the place!!!! This has nothing to do with your ‘faith’. Or tell me why the SUDDEN change????
I know why. But, I give you more chance for more lies.
Andy says
The New Jihad: More Threatening Than Ever
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/13206/jihad-threat
Andy says
People Who Use Logic: Populism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXkI12jrhUI
abad says
+1
John Vic says
EXACTLY, she can now go to pakistan and learn what islam Really is , not be a pretend moslem in a Civilised Country.
Brian hoff says
The prophet never said all these thing first h he took and follow advice of his wifes.
gravenimage says
Really? Is that why he captured and raped many of his wives? Why he married one of them as a child? Why he continued to marry more wives despite the pain this caused? Why he beat this child bride?
FYI says
You sound exactly like a deluded convert to islam Brian c…
Perhaps it’s like something they teach at Saudi-funded aka Georgetown university.
Only an idiot converts to islam anyway.
esther says
what does “they need your respect” mean? Why would a muslim woman “NEED”
my “RESPECT”——-I don’t need hers. It seems to me that muslim women—-and
muslims in general NEED to learn to respect non-muslims before they continue their
incessant demands that the whole world “respect” all things ISLAM. I have interacted
with lots of muslims for the past 50 years. The most remarkable characteristic of muslims
that I noted—–very early in my life—– is their LACK OF RESPECT of things “not muslim”
mortimer says
esther, she simply is saying: “I DEMAND that you respect us for being VEILED.”
Respect is earned, not simply DEMANDED.
Why should I RESPECT a woman who wears the ULTIMATELY SYMBOL OF MISOGYNY and PATRIARCHY?
Why should I RESPECT a woman who is not thinking straight, but who is a self-hating woman with an ENSLAVED MIND and who refuses to THINK ABOUT THE MEANING OF THE VEIL, but ACCEPTS THE VEIL UNQUESTIONINGLY?
I actually don’t respect NON-INTELLECTUAL PEOPLE with knee-jerk, unexamined opinions based on mere prejudice.
william carr says
What do people mean by empowering? One of those 21st century buzz words created (of course) in USA. Does it mean in fact superior to others? She thinks we (non Muslims) should respect her (and of course Islam) She very probably thinks we will go to hell if we are not Muslim or respectful of it. Certainly we should be punished.
Personally do not respect anybody who is religious and especially overtly religious, as in caftan, beard and hijab wearing Muslims. I feel sorry for them in a way as they live in a prison of the mind. I have known some good religious people but I think they would have been good people anyway religious or not.
The vast majority of Muslims are not Muslim out of choice but by compulsion. They are indoctrinated into Islamic belief from earliest ages and as we know, very young children cannot distinguish reality and fantasy, which is why all religions like to get their grip on children (no pun intended) at an early age.
As we know once branded a Muslim one can only leave on pain of death. I strongly suspect that if truth were told millions of Muslims would renounce Islam if they could.
Muslims live in a prison of their own device, Islam means ‘submit’ (not peace as fellow travelers claim) and that is what they are doing. The jailers are the more ‘radical’ Muslims who will quickly bring them into line if they stray. (some Muslim countries do in fact have religious police, and as we know Muslim in Western countries have attempted to set up ‘police forces’ of their own). Sometimes compliance is enforced violently and fatally as we know from the frequency of family murder in Muslim communities, i believe the true scale of this is not known to the authorities and the cases we do hear of are the tip of the iceberg so to speak, even if there is not murder there is intimidation both psychological and violent.
Joe says
While they need our respect, their law requires them to hate us.
CogitoErgoSum says
Wearing the hijab makes her feel empowered alright — the same way those Muslim women in Pakistan felt their empowerment over Asia Bibi, the same way the Muslim mobs are feeling empowered to demand the death of a Christian woman who was legally found innocent of false charges against her. Right now I can not stand the sight of a woman in a hijab.
mortimer says
EMPOWERMENT ? Who is empowered, except for the PATRIARCH?
The Islamic veil is about KEEPING THE MONEY IN THE FAMILY through CHILD MARRIAGE/FIRST COUSIN MARRIAGE. The veil makes women LESS empowered and MORE like chattels.
The Islamic veil is the ULTIMATE SYMBOL OF PATRIARCHY and MISOGYNY.
andra says
You may be right for Sharia countries. But in the West the veil is a weapon against our cultures. The veil in the West helps the muslim rapers to differenciate between the worthy Muslim women and the dirty kuffar bitches. The Muslim women themselves feel more precious by wearing the hijab and they contribute by that to the Jihad. The arrogance they absorbe through the hijab can be observed in every view,, every gesture and every sentence they utter.
Savvy Kafir says
I agree. In the West, the hijab is used to promote the spread of Islam — to “normalize” this barbaric ideology in the civilized world.
Of course, many of those women would be beaten by their husbands or fathers if they didn’t wear it — and some are genuinely modest — but for many Muslim women, I feel certain it is intentionally used as a tool/weapon of Islamic colonization & imperialism.
gravenimage says
True, Savvy Kafir.
CogitoErgoSum says
Who is empowered? As I said, the Muslim women who wear the hijab gain a feeling of empowerment over those women who are not Muslim or who do not wear the hijab. It helps to define those who are the “best of people” and those who are the “most vile of creatures.” It’s a way of knowing who should not be molested and who should be forced into humble submission through ridicule, rape, slavery or execution if they do not submit. It’s a way of saying, “I’m better than those other women are.” It sends more than one message.
Northern Virginiastan says
“You’re just jealous of my sisters” from Hijabi by Mona Haydar, https://genius.com/Mona-haydar-hijabi-lyrics
abad says
There is nothing empowering about hijab.
Hijab is meant to hide, to conceal the female form in public in order to prevent Moslem males who have no self control whatsoever from looking at women.
If Moslem women want to live in the United States they need to lose the hijab and learn to assimilate. Wearing hijab means sticking out like a sore thumb, drawing attention to the fact the woman is Moslem.
End PC says
How can Muslims demand respect from disbelievers when Islam & its Qur’an give zero respect and only great insults to them?
mortimer says
Agree, Islam removes the human rights and civil liberties to women and ‘others’. Even under Sharia law, a dhimmi is not ‘RESPECTED’, but ‘PROTECTED’ … unless a Muslim dislikes a dhimmi to whom he owes money, etc. Then an accusation of blasphemy can be uttered against the dhimmi against which the dhimmi will not usually be able to defend himself. Islam authorizes vigilantes and mobs of vigilantes to enforce Sharia.
Halal Bacon says
Islamist Cross-Dresser says what?
Canadian Deplorable says
I give them all the respect they are due…not much.
andra says
This is typical muslim talk. especcially by female muslims. “I am a poor Muslim Woman who gets no respect by the dirty kuffar.”
I must admit, I have neither pity nor respect for these muslim women who present themselves sharia-conform hijabed in the West. they do not need my pitty because the woman in the public bathroom is right: if they want to get rid of the hijab they can do so in the West. And they do not earn my respect because with wearing the hijab they brandmark me as fair game for their male fellows.
mortimer says
QUESTION TO ASK VEILED WOMEN, especially Dalia Mogahed …
“WHAT WILL THEY DO TO YOU IF YOU TAKE THAT OFF?”
Savvy Kafir says
Respect has to be EARNED. It may be tentatively given to someone about whom we know nothing; but anyone who embraces an ideology as vile, hateful, xenophobic, misogynistic, & savage as Islam is not worthy of respect.
Muslims forfeit the right to be respected by others, by supporting & advancing the most hostile, retrograde, & dangerous ideology on the planet. Yet they haughtily DEMAND the respect of everyone — while having ZERO respect for us filthy infidels, because we’ve rejected their monstrous god & his lunatic prophet.
Muslims are the enemies of the civilized world. In some conflicts, respect may be given to an enemy who is worthy of it; but Muslims are NOT that sort of noble enemy. They promote the most sickening ideology ever devised by man, and are only worthy of our pity, at best — and our contempt generally.
mortimer says
Yes, SK, ‘RESPECT’ is earned, rather than DEMANDED.
RESPECT is for those who care about others and work to make
Does Dalia Mogahed fespect of Western men, or Western society?
Then why live there? Why not move to BERZERKISTAN, Dalia.
gravenimage says
A demand for “respect” is based on eliciting fear.
Tom says
When muslim men respect white females, especially youn girls, then come back and discuss respect for those women in Islam. Until then go pound sand.
WCM says
Why is it that leftist/Democrat/”progressive” (sic)/socialist/communist/totalitarian wymen, whenever photographed, so often appear to have just had a shot of lemon juice?
CogitoErgoSum says
It comes from walking around with a stick up their arse all the time.
Benedict says
Sure Muslim women need respect, but Islam doesn’t convey respect for anyone least for Muslims themselves.
Respect for Muslims would entail persuading them to leave Islam. The problem is that the Western World is short of viable alternatives to Islam.
CogitoErgoSum says
What do you mean short of viable alternatives? What would you consider to be an alternative that is “viable?”
CogitoErgoSum says
You don’t consider atheism or practically any other religion known to man to be “viable?”
Benedict says
Viable to Muslims, CES. Muslims are brainwashed into believing that religion must be upheld by police and military and such religions are not in vogue in the West. It is very difficult to separate religion and politics in the minds of Muslims. Muslims yearn for an external taskmaster.
CogitoErgoSum says
Oh, okay. Yes, the only alternatives for anyone and everyone according to the Quran are submit to the rules of Islam or die. Not much of a choice.
Prabh says
Nordic traditions, (Odin, Thor – the entire Pantheon which is close to the Vedic Pantheon of Deva/Devian), Plato, Socrates, Aristotle of Hellenic Greece, the great Roman thinkers, the Germanic Warriors etc. make a lot more sense and are far more noble than any ‘religion’ coming out of the sands of the levantine/arabia region.
Lord Rama, Bhagwan Krishna, Zarathustra, Gautam Buddh, Guru Nanak, Guru Govind, Swami Sivananda of the 20th Century, Prabhupada, Dr. Pillai, Dr. Koenraad Elst, etc. etc. – all these figures make a lot more sense and are far more noble and in perfect alliance with the best attributes of the Western Civilization (beautiful science minded High intelligence peoples able to create advanced states rooted in trust and honour -high trust societies with virtually zero crime – yes this is the true West, not “law and order” tv show of today’s New York City. Contrast with the 50 plus islamo hellholes that can’t recognize basic dignity and value of a human being and prefer to flaunt their false modesty all the while keeping slaves.
Islam rejects art – this is a sign of a stupid peoples – I do not wish to live in a world without art.
Drama is considered as the 5th Veda – subtle promotion of islam by bollywood trash is not representative of actual Dharmic Art.
I am confident eventually islam will end up where it belongs: “in the dustbin” – Gaddhafi thought the west would end up in the dustbin of histoy- NO – Islam will end up in the dustbin of history.
The Dharmic World (Bharat – india) and The Western Civilization are LIGHT YEARS AHEAD Of Islam.
visit Hinduism.co.za and notice that some of the first words that hit the eye are “Quantum Physics.”
Just because moslems are breeding like there is no tomorrow does not guarantee them victory. Ultimately, “Truth Alone Triumphs” – motto of Aryavarta (india).
The real West is like a Hallmark Film – are you seriously suggesting this is not worth fighting for? Islam promotes dysgenic breeding – this crime of inbreeding and mutilation of genitalia at the very least must be deemed illegal around the world. This is child abuse. These people torturously remove important body parts – and this is a ‘religion’ ? – NO. This is purely demonic behaviour.
Anyone who thinks the West or India have nothing to offer and Islam is a legitimate life path really needs a copy of Dr. Robert Spencer’s latest book. I intend to acquire three copies of his book – one personal copy for myself, one for my home library and one to give away to someone who might not understand the true diabolical intentions of IslamoJihad.
The Western World is on the verge of finding, exploring and settling Earth like planets. (Guru Nanak in Japji composition speaks of such planets.)
Islam is a dangerous, regressive stone-age creed, full-stop. Deprogramming centers ought to be set up forthwith, pronto.
kindly excuse the long length of this comment as well as any typos or errors.
Prabh
Prabh says
some further info to understand the freaks of islamojihad: Islam likes to present itself as a warrior creed – nothing could be further from the truth- real true warriors never attack anyone based on their ancestry or ethnicity or caste/creed/colour – Islam separates peoples with arabs on top and all others lesser than arabislamics with Dharmics/pagans at the bottom. Genuine warriors value women as true equals whereas islam treats women as slaves. True warriors provide PROTECTION.
The warrior ethos of Central Asia, the Eurasian Steppes and the NorthWestern regions of the Indian Subcontinent was coopted (poorly imitated) by Islamic demoniac pseudo-warriors.
Cubs of the Caliphate are criminals as are their parents.
A Sikh website made the claim that today there is only one warrior religion: Sikh faith. I fully agree.
Now I hear that Mohamad prophet was reincarnation of Shukra Dev – Venus – he is teacher of demons. That explains a lot right there.
Ren says
Respecting islam is to respect a doctrine founded by a pedophile, a thief, a murderer and a terrorist, Muhammad.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Fitzgerald, cite any Quranic verse or Hadith sanctioning honor killing? How can you imagine someone to hate his own mother, sister and daughter whom he feels as if their bloods are circulating in his body? The holy Prophet Muhammad said he who expresses happiness when his wife delivers a female baby will be happy in paradise.
CogitoErgoSum says
Muhammad liked female babies. He liked them a lot.
FYI says
Indeed.
allah himself doesn’t care much for women:-
The Legal testimony of a muslim woman=HALF that of a muslim man k2:282
The son’s inheritance=TWICE that of a daughter k4:11
It seems allah thinks a muslima female=HALF the worth of a muslim male.
Is the female in allah’s paradise equal to a man?of course not,sorry habibi!All that hijab wearing and false piety for naught…and didn’t perfect muhammed say somewhere that most souls in hell are women?
Well,that’s what you get for being worth only HALF the value of a man,I guess.
How can one imagine muslims hating their own kin?
Let’s see ….what allah’s antisocial book of fantasy says..
Dishonoring of family in islam;sanctioned by allah{“The best of deceivers”K3:54}
{Yet another one of those Exodus 20 Commandments that allah,his “prophet” mo the merciless and muslims feel entitled to break}
“Oh ye who believe!choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends
if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith.Whoso of you taketh them for friends,such are wrong doers”
koran 9;23
Can you imagine a muslim hating his own mother,father sister,brother?
Well,of course you can:you can see how and why with koran 9:23!
It seems allah is ok with muslim families in conflict:isn’t it funny how muslim trolls don’t even know their own ‘holy’ koran?
gravenimage says
Ibrahim itace muhammed wrote:
Fitzgerald, cite any Quranic verse or Hadith sanctioning honor killing? How can you imagine someone to hate his own mother, sister and daughter whom he feels as if their bloods are circulating in his body?
…………………………
If Ibrahim itace muhammed were *really* concerned about this he would take it up with his own coreligionists, who commit 90% of the “Honor Killings” in the world–and the many Muslim countries that either do not consider this criminal or respond with a slap on the wrist.
Instead, he is just slinging Taqiyya at the good Infidels here at Jihad Watch.
More:
The holy Prophet Muhammad said he who expresses happiness when his wife delivers a female baby will be happy in paradise.
…………………………
Did he now? I am quite knowledgeable, and have never seen any such Hadith (it *certainly* is not in the Qur’an. Citations, please.
What the “Prophet” *is* quoted on saying is that women are deficient in their intelligence and religion, and says that most of the inhabitants of hell are women:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
Once Allah’s Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o ‘Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, “O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women).” They asked, “Why is it so, O Allah’s Apostle ?” He replied, “You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you.” The women asked, “O Allah’s Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?” He said, “Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?” They replied in the affirmative. He said, “This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn’t it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?” The women replied in the affirmative. He said, “This is the deficiency in her religion.”
–Sahih Bukhari 1:6:301
Spiro says
Respect is earned
Islam has not
Wellington says
The only Muslim women I respect are the ones who realize what nonsense and rot Islam is but who, out of understandable fear, are afraid to break with Mo’s creed because of what will happen to them if they do.
As for Muslim women who are willingly Muslim, they get no respect from me. None.
The question that should be asked of all willing Muslim women is does a Muslim woman have the right, and without fear of any kind of physical harm, to leave Islam if she wishes? Yeah, a very important query that should be asked.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
FYI, had it been that you are conversant with Fiqh books you could able be to know that each issue concerning women like the testimony of 2 woman equal to that of one man in some cases, male takes 2 shares and female takes1 and that woman shall cover the whole of her body except face and foot while men shall cover from neck to leg , have justifications, not meant to discriminate them or humiliate them.Eg,giving evidence or testimony has something to do with perception of events and women are not mostly present to perceive most of the events. But, according to sharia, there are certain events like delivery of a child,the evidence of women is preferred. so, the criteria laid down by the sharia is that whoever has advantage of perceiving a particular event between men and women his or her evidence is preferred. Note:such Sharia rules are not static, the change of time and human development changes the rules to suit the circumstances and environment.what is important is substantial justice in each case as stated in sharia maxim “Al adl wal Ihsan (justice and fairness )”couched directly from the Quran.
Wellington says
Blah, blah, blah Ibrahim. The time has long passed when any reasonable and informed mind can defend the worst religion of all time, i.e., Islam.
Hey, and pertaining to my 4:35 P.M. post above, what say you about a Muslim woman who wants to convert to Hinduism, Buddhism or Christianity? What should happen to her, Ibrahim? Yeah, be specific while also not dodging my question.
duh swami says
Wellington…I admire your ability to read a Muslims long winded post without passing out…I start nodding out after the first 4-5 sentences…
CogitoErgoSum says
You say these rules change depending on circumstances? Do they change so that they must apply to everybody, even non-Muslims, once Muslims become strong enough to force them upon everybody? If so, people living in a once free country can say good-bye to their freedom and hello to being treated like a dhimmi. History tells us that this is just what happens.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Cogitoergosum, yes it changes especially on treatment of dhimmis. The pact of umar imposing some restrictions on dhimmis has been changed because it is found to be in conflict with a Hadith which says he who oppresses a dhimmi has declared war against Allah. As such Dhimmis are equal citizens in all respects. Go through the works of modern muslim jurists.
Ezra Adamson says
BS It seems that the apologists for islam and its god, muhammed can lie with impunity – however and whenever it suits them.
Turn to Jesus Christ and be truly free, not the satanic god of islam.
gravenimage says
More from the foul Ibrahim itace muhammed:
Cogitoergosum, yes it changes especially on the treatment of Dhimmi citizens of Sharia compliant state. As such rules deduced from the pact of umar with some restrictions on dhimmis has been changed to the extent that Dhimmis citizens have equal rights.
……………………….
What a load of tripe.
Here is the oppressive Pact of Umar:
https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/source/pact-umar.asp
You can see that dhimmis have almost no rights under Shari’ah–not even the right to defend themselves against attack from Muslims.
Can Ibrahim itace muhammed name a *single* Muslim country that grants Infidels equal rights–even those not under full Shari’ah law? of course not.
More:
Again, non-Muslims are competent witnesses if they are truthful, not restricted to expert evidence as previously held. Read the standard works by modern muslim jurists if you can, eg Fiqh Ala madhabil Ar’baa by Aljaza’iri
……………………….
In the Ottoman Empire, any testimony against Muslims by Christians and Jews was inadmissible in courts of law wherein a Muslim could be punished. This was the norm in Muslim countries under Shari’ah.
Has this changed today? No, it has not. Here is Ummah.com:
Can a Dhimmi testify against a Muslim in Sharia court?
“The legal testimony of a dhimmi was not admissible in a judicial suit where a Muslim was one of the parties, because it was felt that infidelity, the obstinate failure to recognize the true light of Islam, was proof of defective morality and a consequent incapability of bearing legal witness. In the words of the Hanafi jurist Sarakhsi (d. 483/1090), “the word of a dishonest Muslim is more valuable than that of a honest dhimmi.” On the other hand, the deposition of a Muslim against a dhimmi was perfectly valid in law. It was further held by almost all schools of Islamic law (with the exception of the Hanafi one) that the diya or blood money payable on the killing of a dhimmi was only two-thirds or a half of that of a free Muslim.”
It seems like this would be an accepted argument in a Sharia court.
https://www.ummah.com/forum/forum/islam/general-islamic-topics/1032-can-a-dhimmi-testify-against-a-muslim-in-sharia-court
Save Europe says
Oooooooh….. The mere usage of the word ‘dhimmis’ illustrates what an intolerant ideology those who support the ideology of Islam are! Thank you!!
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Cogitoergosum, yes it changes especially on the treatment of Dhimmis. As such the pact umar with some restrictions on dhimmis have long been changed to the extent that Dhimmis are equal citizens in all respects. Also, on competence of non-muslims to give evidence now not restricted to expert evidence, which all muslim jurists agreed that they are competent witnesses.
gravenimage says
I answered this crap above.
FYI says
Doctrinaire,obtuse,sophistry..from mr itace muhhamed,a man who has revealed that he doesn’t even know his own koran!
A man who is not intellectually evolved enough to realize that the absolutely ENORMOUS theological errors in his ‘holy’ koran show it to be a fraudulent piece of contrived falsehood that makes it impossible to br the work of any God;only a liar god.
A man who doesn’t get the Irony of the fact that the god who he chooses to follow,who has clearly deceived him, is called “the best of deceivers” k3:54.
Nope.he doesn’t get it!
It is a shame your allah has not provided you with a frontal lobe itace muhammmad:neither Logic nor Reason is to be found anywhere between your primitive,islamic ears.
I’m very well acquainted by the way with ex-muslims who know that koran far better than you do:indeed,they have kindly pointed out many of the hilarious errors in it..
BC says
Is a raped woman not able to ‘perceive’ her rape and her rapist, but 4 men must be there to ‘perceive’ it
gravenimage says
The vile Ibrahim itace muhammed wrote:
FYI, had it been that you are conversant with Fiqh books you could able be to know that each issue concerning women like the testimony of 2 woman equal to that of one man in some cases, male takes 2 shares and female takes1 and that woman shall cover the whole of her body except face and foot while men shall cover from neck to leg , have justifications, not meant to discriminate them or humiliate them.
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Well, *of course* this is justified in Islam–Islam sees women as deficient in intelligence, worth less than a male, and responsible for Muslim men raping her.
More:
Eg,giving evidence or testimony has something to do with perception of events and women are not mostly present to perceive most of the events.
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If the women were not present then they could not give testimony at all–this only applies when women *are* present–and then, their testimony is worth half that of a man.
Also, notice that Ibrahim itace muhammed doesn’t note *why* women are present at so few events–it is because they are mostly confined to their homes and can only leave when they have the permission of their “Mehram” (male owner). In many parts of the Muslim world, women have to be accompanied by a male controller.
More:
But, according to sharia, there are certain events like delivery of a child,the evidence of women is preferred. so, the criteria laid down by the sharia is that whoever has advantage of perceiving a particular event between men and women his or her evidence is preferred.
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Because women are restricted to a small number of roles in Islam–pumping out more Jihadists or future baby makers is one of the few–because even Muslims can’t do anything about human biology.
More:
Note:such Sharia rules are not static, the change of time and human development changes the rules to suit the circumstances and environment.
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Really? how does this explain why Islam is so stagnant and backward?
More:
what is important is substantial justice in each case as stated in sharia maxim “Al adl wal Ihsan (justice and fairness )”couched directly from the Quran.
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What could be more just than oppressing women, FGM, child marriage, forced marriage, polygamy, wife beating, the “Triple Talaq” summary divorce for men only, “Honor Killings”, and stoning rape victims to death?
God, I hate Islam.
This is also the name of an illegal Islamist group in Morocco, which wants to turn that country into a full Shari’ah state.
gravenimage says
Dalia Mogahed: “They don’t need you to save them from Islam. They need your respect.” (Part One)
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So now standing against “Honor Killings” is considered “Islamophobic”? What insanity.
And note that by “respect” Dalia Mogahed means fear. This is what Islam demands.
And she is saying that Muslim women *want* to be beaten and murdered, Just appalling.
Save Europe says
She needs to show HERSELF some respect.
gravenimage says
+1
Z says
“Seemingly out of nowhere, she declared to an adolescent girl, who I presumed was her daughter, that she would never be subjugated to any religion that tells women they are inferior and have to wear the veil.”
Sounds that girl has a good mother
gravenimage says
+1
Anjuli Pandavar says
An empowered Muslim woman who cannot do without the respect of the Kuffar. Some empowerment. An engineering degree, a think-tank job, and a business school qualification cannot empower her, but we’re supposed to believe that throwing a piece of cloth over her head does the trick. Dalia, see all those powerless women out there without the hijab? Even without engineering degrees, think tank jobs or business school diplomas, they beg no one for respect. That’s because they have it already. It’s called self-respect.
Lydia Church says
They need to get SAVED!
FYI says
itace muhammed
Had it been that you were conversant with that book that allah wrote{Yes,THAT book:the “mithraist” bible k3:3},you would have realized by know the fatuous,contrived,fraudulent nonsense of islam and its ‘holy’ book.
Please spare me the silly arabic nonsense Mr al jahesh;I’m very well acquainted with ex-muslims who know the koran better than you do and who have pointed all its ENORMOUS errors out:you just don’t want to see it.
Your allah may be linguistically-challenged:but the Actual God isn’t.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
FYI, I have been educating you that mithraist Bible is not the same thing as the Injeel revealed to Jesus ,and divine revelations are communicated to prophets in human languages like Hebrew, Amharaic and Arabic, not in written texts. your mithraist Bible is a mixture of pagan doctrines like Godman and begotten son of God and some traces of what Jesus actually taught confirmed by the Quran.
Prabh says
Mithra Deva: God of Friendship is the one responsible for all religion, culture and civilization. Please stop maligning Mitra.
Ancient peoples valued friendship above all else. Classic Sanskritic text Pancatantra informs us friendship can only ever be amongst equals. Constellation Anuradha in the night sky is ruled by Mars and Saturn is emblematic of genuine friendship.
http://www.jyotisha.bhavans.info/anuradha_nakshatra.pdf
Friendship requires true freedom – freedom from all forms of slavery and vice.
It would be a step forward in your spiritual evolution ibramhim itace muhammed if you could understand just exactly who is Mitra. The True Guru forbids me from having any contact with a Mohamadan but I just made an exception to let you know that you are in the wrong when you criticize Mitra Deva.
Broaden your reading and free your mind – there is a world out there besides your one Koran.
Prabh
gravenimage says
Prabh, Ibrahim itace muhammed is not referring to Mitra Deva, but to the ancient Persian cult of Mithras. He falsely claims that the Christian religion is based on a martial cult popular with the military in ancient Rome. Of course, this is claptrap.
gravenimage says
Ibrahim itace muhammed wrote, replying to FYI:
FYI, I have been educating you that mithraist Bible is not the same thing as the Injeel revealed to Jesus ,
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Muslims do indeed hold that Jews and Christians “corrupted” the “Torat” (Torah) and “Injeel” (Gospels), and that originally they were just as savage as the vicious Qur’an. Never mind that there is no historic or archaeological basis for this claim. But what do Muslims care about facts?
More:
and divine revelations are communicated to prophets in human languages like Hebrew, Amharaic and Arabic, not in written texts.
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Well, *this* is an odd claim–orthodox Muslims consider the Qur’an to be “uncreated” and of central importance. Many Muslims would murder Ibrahim itace muhammed for “blasphemy” for saying such a thing. Of course, he is in no danger from the civilized Infidels here at Jihad Watch.
More:
your mithraist Bible is a mixture of pagan doctrines like Godman and begotten son of God and some traces of what Jesus actually taught confirmed by the Quran.
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Ibrahim itace muhammed keeps flogging this claptrap about Mithraism–despite its having no influence on Christian doctrine. There is, in fact, no concept of the Savior in Mithraism at all.
abad says
Dalia honey respect has to be earned it is not automatically conferred. And Islam is not known to be a respectful religion by non-Moslems. You have a lot to learn.
Denny says
Offcource tey need to be saved from islam. Muslim women are the most oppressed in the world. Some of them just dont want to see it. Is too painful.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Cogitoergosum, yes it changes especially on the treatment of Dhimmi citizens of Sharia compliant state. As such rules deduced from the pact of umar with some restrictions on dhimmis has been changed to the extent that Dhimmis citizens have equal rights. Again, non-Muslims are competent witnesses if they are truthful, not restricted to expert evidence as previously held. Read the standard works by modern muslim jurists if you can, eg Fiqh Ala madhabil Ar’baa by Aljaza’iri
gravenimage says
Ibrahim itace muhammed is just spamming now, I answered this claptrap above.
Ezra Adamson says
How can one respect ignorance?
terry says
Why would i respect an ideology that has none for me?
I don’t care if you resect my beliefs or not, just keep yours the hell out of my face, and i’ll do the same for you.
terry says
Two simple yes or no questions for her, do you believe it’s o.k. for husbands to beat their wives?
If not, do you denounce the verse in the koran that calls for it?