Question #8C: “You said that Islam as practiced in Saudi Arabia provided inner peace and a sense of security? Where apostates and homosexuals can be decapitated? Where the school textbooks preach hatred of Jews and Christians, where the Shi’a are denounced as Infidels? Where women can’t drive, or work alongside men, and are constantly under the thumb of a male relative?”
Azzi (a sudden hard look of displeasure passes over his features, but swiftly disappears):
I was talking about Islam. You want me to talk about Saudi Arabia, and not even about Saudi Arabia, but about the most far-out of extremists in Saudi Arabia. Those extremist clerics — you’ve heard of the “religious police” or mutawwa? — are a holdover from the past. They are not Saudi Arabia’s future. They do not even represent Saudi Arabia today, which is changing in ways you wouldn’t believe. Just look at the new heir-apparent, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. He’s only 33, a sign of real changes to come, as he will replace the King, who is now 81. The Saudi royal family is moving ahead, becoming more open to the world — I mean, the Saudi princes and princesses have all studied abroad, and they are possibly the best-travelled royal family in the world — though well aware that it has to be careful about changing things so fast that an armed opposition might develop among the religious fanatics, especially if whipped up by certain clerics. They are determined to make progress. The foreign media like to beat up on Saudi Arabia — it’s easy to do, just stick with that narrative about “Wahhabism” and depict the Saudi royals as frozen in time, unable to change. But if you look just at Saudi women, they have been clamoring for the right to drive, even staging drive-ins. In the old days, they would have quietly accepted their fate. Not anymore. Now thanks to the Crown Prince, Saudi women drive everywhere. Before, women did not have the right to vote, but in 2015, Saudi women for the first time could vote in local elections and be appointed to the Consultative Assembly that advises the royal family. That’s a big step forward. But you know — we hear practically nothing in our own media about how much Saudi society is changing. And right now, of course, the news is all about Khashoggi.
As for the Saudis funding some conservative Muslim groups, it is true that in the past, the Saudis have supported some Salafi mosques and madrasas and imams. Salafism is the movement of Muslims who wish to return the practice of Islam to the traditions of the first Muslims, the forefathers (salaf). But “Salafism” is purely religious in nature; it does not imply any particular politics.
Salafism was and is primarily a movement about belief and practice, and not about political power. The Muslim Brotherhood, on the other hand, is determined to infiltrate governments, schools, workplaces, in order to push for rule by the Brotherhood, in the hope ultimately of establishing a global Islamic state. Now that idea terrifies the Saudi ruling family. They are very much against the Muslim Brotherhood. The Saudi royals have a lot to lose if Saudi Arabia were ever to become part of a “global Islamic state,” because they would then be sharing their oil wealth not with 22 million Saudis, but with 1.6 billion Muslims. And the Saudi royal family would no longer control its own territory in Arabia; that territory would now be part of that global Islamic state, to be run by members of the Muslim Brotherhood, a mass Islamic movement. And it’s not just the Brotherhood. Both Al-Qaeda and ISIS also want the return of a single Islamic state, ruled by a caliph. If you were a Saudi, would you want that?
So when you are told that Saudi Arabia is a supporter of dangerous Muslim groups, you can point out that the Saudis support, though with much less enthusiasm than before, Salafis whose aims are not political but a return to the Islam as practiced by the earliest Muslims. The Muslim Brotherhood, the most widespread and powerful pan-Islamic group, is overtly political, working for a global Islamic state, but it is least popular in Saudi Arabia. What country is doing the most today to weaken the Muslim Brotherhood? It’s Saudi Arabia. They’re the ones who are leading the Gulf Cooperation Council to put pressure on Qatar, the main financial supporter of the Muslim Brotherhood, to end that support. It’s the Saudis who insist that Qatar also close down the Al Jazeera channel, which promotes the Muslim Brotherhood, and remains financially dependent on Qatar. Saudi Arabia is the chief enemy of the Brotherhood, and always will be. And of course, Al-Qaeda and ISIS regard the Saudis as the enemy because the are too close to the Americans. And it’s true — the Saudis are close allies of America, and have been ever since King Abdul Aziz met President Roosevelt on the U.S.S. Quincy in 1945. Think about what’s happening right now — Iran is America’s archenemy, and who is doing the most to fight Iran? It’s Saudi Arabia, though it gets little thanks for fighting the Iran-backed forces in Yemen.
Voice from the audience: “That’s fascinating. I had no idea that the Saudis were against the Muslim Brotherhood and Iran. I’m so grateful to you, Dr. Azzi, for taking us through this Middle Eastern labyrinth.”
Azzi:
Well, I’m not a doctor of anything. I’m just a proud Muslim and a proud citizen of New Hampshire and a proud American. But I’m glad if I’ve been of some help. The politics of the Muslim Middle East, and especially in the Arab Gulf, can be quite confusing. It’s taken me quite a while to understand the complexities myself.
And as to that other matter raised by an earlier questioner about the treatment of apostates and homosexuals, do I think apostates and homosexuals should be executed? Of course not. And neither do my Saudi friends, including some who are members of the Saudi royal family. I think if you look, you’ll see that the number of executions has gone way down in recent years. But the royals who want to do away with such executions altogether — and there are many — have to move slowly, because of the possible reaction of the clerical establishment. I’m sure you’ll see amazing changes in Saudi society in the next decade. All those Saudis, men and women, who have studied in the West, are returning home with ideas that are very different from those clerics. And under this dynamic Crown Prince, soon to be king, I’m sure you will see more rapid changes.
I’m very hopeful about the future of Saudi Arabia. I’ve been thinking about going out there one last time, and taking photographs of Saudi Arabia four decades after my first portfolio — what has changed, in the skyline of the cities of Riyadh and Jiddah, what the new universities look like, the building boom in hotels for pilgrims in Mecca, which architectural purists deplore, but which I’d like to see for myself and take some photographs. You know, if millions of people come on the hajj, you’ve got to have a place for them to stay. The Saudis have knocked down some old structures to put up new ones to handle the hajj traffic; they are just being practical. I doubt if I’ll be around to photograph the cities planned by the Crown Prince, including that new economic city, NEOM, on which the Saudis are going to spend $500 billion. What incredible vision he shows.
Next question.
jewdog says
I see. Now SA is going to go from the Stone Age to the Middle Ages. By the way, wasn’t there an accused witch who was beheaded there not long ago? We should be up to the Enlightenment in a few hundred years.
Angemon says
Right, right – Saudi Arabia, the birthplace of islam, has nothing to do with “true” islam, whatever “true islam” may be. Reminds me of how the commies going “no, no, that was not actual communism” when asked about any communist country ever…
JAT 349 says
I learned all I needed to learn about muslims and islam on 9/11..
b.a. freeman says
unfortunately, i didn’t. i was among the deluded, thinking that islam was just a post-christian religion like mormonism, and continued to linger among them for over 10 years. i tried to read the quran after 9/11, mistakenly thinking that it was all there is of islamic scripture. i had never been taught anything but names and dates of islamic conquests in history at any level, including university; after reading through the first 2 or 3 surahs of the quran, i gave it up, because i didn’t know what it was addressing. it was not until i stumbled across a discussion of islam on a conservative site that i got a handle on islam, and was finally able to learn what it really teaches.
and the left is OK with it; either that, or most of them are beyond stupid. since i have met lots of smart leftists (who no doubt will enjoy being Party members), i rather suspect that most of these smart folks are very skilled in their various fields of enterprise, but are not critical thinkers in any other fields – such as history or religion. their thought leaders, OTOH, *do* know what’s going on, and have every intention of destroying the republic using the attacks of pious muslims. nothing at all points to them as being complicit; all they have to do is cover for the attacks and import more muslims. each new batch of muslims entering the country is guaranteed statistically to have pious muslims among them, and the pious are the attackers. thus, covering for pious muslims is the *only* evidence there will ever be that leftists are behind these attacks.
and of course, when society collapses under the incessant attacks, the government, almost always totally in the hands of leftists, will declare martial law to “protect” us. and they will “protect” us with a people’s republic. i imagine that the pious muslims and the hard left will battle one another soon afterwards, but since the MINOs are quite likely to suddenly become pious when attacked by the State, i think we all know who will come out on top of that fight. patriots will have to fight them both if the republic is to survive. all the death to come, as well as all the deaths so far at the hands of pious muslims, can be laid at the feet of the left. this is *ALL* their doing.
gravenimage says
Yes–some of us have taken longer to wake up than others–that is fine, so long as more *do* wake up.
I had become increasingly concerned about Islam pre-9/11–but it wasn’t until Muslims drove passenger planes into some of our greatest buildings and murdered almost 3000 Americans that I really started to look into Islam in an organized way. The more I found the more horrified I became.
mortimer says
Yes, freeman, it takes a long time to get the handle on Islam … Bill Warner has spent all his time since 9-11 teaching people what Islam is … 1) it is dualistic and confusing 2) it is aggressive 3) it is brutal 4) it is misogynistic 5) it is a doctrine of hate directed against disbelievers 6) Islam is defined by the life of Mohammed, rather than by the nice Muslim you met at the coffee shop who is not observant … if he were observant, the nice Muslim would not want to be your friend.
James Lincoln says
News just in from the Portsmouth Herald:
“Robert Azzi, of Exeter, received the 16th annual Nackey S. Loeb School of
Communications’ First Amendment Award for his “Ask a Muslim Anything”
discussions that have taken place at more than 50 public libraries in New
Hampshire.”
Islamic propaganda and soft jihad on steroids.
mortimer says
Robert Azzi refers to the MOST DEVASTATING PROOF THAT ISLAM IS FALSE, namely, the massive, archeological destruction of MECCA.
Quote: “…the building boom in hotels for pilgrims in Mecca, which architectural purists deplore, but which I’d like to see for myself and take some photographs. … The Saudis have knocked down some old structures to put up new ones to handle the hajj traffic…”
They have DESTROYED THE ENTIRE UNDERCROFT OF MECCA permanently REMOVING FOR ALL TIME the evidence that ISLAM IS FAKE and that MECCA WAS NEVER THE HOLY CITY OF MOHAMMED. That honor is taken by Petra in Jordan.
There was NO ARCHEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE UNDER MECCA … this PROVES DECISIVELY that the SAUDI FAMILY KNOWS ISLAM IS FAKE, because they know that Mecca has NO ARCHEOLOGICAL artifacts that need to be preserved! Mecca is a fake holy city, Mr. Azzi. DID YOU GET THAT?