A wide-ranging and most interesting recent discussion with the Apostate Prophet.
Comments
Walter Sieruksays
As the about the title this news posting this which starts off with first three words “The apostate prophet…” A in all fairness it’s but totally accurate to classify the founder of Islam as an “apostate Prophet” The reason that this is so is because a person who is an actual apostate is someone who has gone ,as in fell , into doctrinal error. According to the Bible to have doctrinal error, as in contradiction to the teaching found in the Bible , , as in Isaiah 8:20.
As the the founder of Islam , Muhammad, m he wasn’t ever Bible based to begin with .So in the sense he didn’t fall way from the Bible because he was never Bible based for the very start. In spite of what Muhammad might had claimed about himself.
It’s much better and more accurate in the light of the Bible to classify Muhammad as a false prophet.
For Jesus had predicted and warned about the coming of such men as Muhammad. For Jesus declared “Beware of false prophets ,which come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly they are ravening wolves.” Mathew 7:15. [K.J.V.] Further, in the Bible it is also written that there are “many false prophets are gone out into the world.’ First John 4:1.
mortimersays
RE TERM “APOSTATE PROPHET” … a very good choice of a PSEUDONYM mocking Mohammed who mocked all ‘others’ !
This PSEUDONYM is GREAT because Mohammed was indeed an “APOSTATE” from heretical Christianity and a clueless deviant from normality.
Of course, almost everything in Mohmmed’s ISLAM is topsy-turvy and the OPPOSITE of what it says and this term (apostate) is no doubt an ECHO of the word HANIF which Mohammed used to refer to his group of ‘HERETICS’ from Christianity … Mohammed used ‘hanif’ as a badge of honor, rather than of shame … its original implication! Mohammed was so STUPID, he thought HANIF meant ‘righteous’ or something similar. IT MEANT “A HERETIC” or “PAGAN”. Unwittingly Mohammed was correct … his group was pagans.
Hanif (Arabic: حنيف) is an Arabic masculine given name, which means a righteous person or a true believer. The origin of the word is uncertain, although it is generally agreed that it is derived from the Syriac word hanpe, which means ‘heathen’.
Etymology
It is generally agreed that the word Ḥanīf (plural: ḥunafā’) is derived from the Syriac word hanpe, which means ‘heathen’. However, there is no credible theory which can explain the transformation of the term’s meaning – from heathen to monotheist. Nabataeans used Hanif’s cognate to designate a follower of Hellenized religion. And Nabataean is generally considered as the region where the transformation of the term’s meaning took place.[3]
Alfred Felix Landon Beeston argues that the ambiguity associated with the shift of the term’s meaning can be largely removed if one assumes that the term was introduced via Najran, instead of its direct introduction from Syria. He argues that the Najranites had adopted the term hanpe from the Syrian missionaries, who used it for all non-Christians, irrespective of them being polytheist or monotheist. The 5th century inhabitants of Mecca had strong trading ties with the Yemen, where the wealthier classes were overwhelmingly monotheist. And, as the Najranites used the term Ḥanīf to designate the Yemenis, it would have been easier for the Meccans to adopt it in the sense of monotheism
Muhammad stole all his Islamic hoopla from the BIble (perverted it) and paganism and even if he was visited by an angel it was one of Satan’s angels or maybe even Satan himself…and those who follow Muhammad’s way are bound for that awful Lake of Fire in which Satan and his like will spend eternity. REPENT BEFORE ITS TOO LATE.
FYIsays
It was the “angel” Jibreel who is defined in islam as “the enemy of the Jews”.
That was muhammed’s “guide”.
An antisemitic “angel” of courses is more likely a ..demon.
{Sahih Al Bukhari vol4 book 60 no 3329}
Of course..
“Even satan can disguise himself to look like an angel of light”
2 Corinthians 11 v 14
Walter Sieruksays
In this interview with Robert Spencer there was discussion about the strong antisemitism and likewise who this reflected in the Muslim way of thinking in the so many Muslims dislike and sometimes even hate the Jewish people. On this two things need to be made known .
First, the Arab women, Brigitte Gabriel who used to live in one of those countries in one of those Middle Eastern countries but is now is an American citizens who naturally lives in the USA ,as stated and is the head of actforamerica.org had spoken in words and declared in writing that in many Muslims nations in the Middle East there is a saying which is “First comes Saturday , then comes Sunday.” That statement ,she explained, means “first go after and eliminate the Jews and then after that is accomplished go after and eliminate the Christians.”
Second,this strong and vicious Muslim hate for the Jewish people is the results of a firm but blind and unquestioning faith in the “holy book” of Islam the Koran. Which instructs in violence and killing for the cause of Islam. As found in, for example, 4: 89. 5:33. 9:5,111,123. 47:4. In other words the Koran inspires and causes such hideous violence. Furthermore, another role the Koran has in such deadly Islamic terror attacks in the Jewish nation of Israel is that the Koran contains many negative about the Jewish people. This has everything to do with the history of the prophet and founder of Islam, who was Muhammad The history is that for a specific time period of his life Muhammad lived among many Jewish people and he liked them at first. Later then they would not accept his claim of being of prophet, Muhammad then took is dislike to them that then turned into bitterness and even hate for them. So in the hate and bitterness he spoke many derogatory things about the as even referring to them as “apes and swine.” Such word of bitterness and hate, along with other thing he said, where written down on things and then later after his death those words were together together and then eventually, in time went in the composition of the Koran. Therefore, that why the Koran reads and in does about the Jewish people, as in calling them descendants of “apes and swine.” As seen in the Koran in 2:65; 7:166.; 5:60. Furthermore, as a Christian I can keyboard that there is a chance the Muhammad actually might had been a prophet but the important thing to understand is that Muhammad was NOT a prophet send by God. Instead, Muhammad was a deceptive, lying false prophet send by Satan to lead many people astray and even and straight into hell. Jesus, in fact, had predicted and warned of the coming of such men as Muhammad. For Jesus taught “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.” Matthew 7:15. In addition, the Bible further warns that “many false prophets are gone out into the world.” First John 4:1. [K.J.V.]
Carol the 1stsays
Brigitte Gabriel is not Arab, Walter. She is of Lebanese descent. She was once criticized for calling Arabs “barbarians”. Reading her Wikipedia biography is startling – it reveals just how dedicated some platforms are to denigrating those who speak against Islam – despite how remarkable they happen to be.
Here is something Brigitte said in defense of herself:
“”I am not anti-Muslim, I am anti ideologies which want to kill free people and subjugate them right now, in the name of the Islamic religion. I would fight with the same passion if crazy Christians were trying to do that, if crazy Jews were trying to do that, or whatever crazy religious is trying to do that. I am for the human spirit and for the individuality of the human spirit.”
gravenimagesays
Some Middle Eastern Christians identify as Arab; some don’t.
Carol the 1stsays
Yes, there has been rather a mix over the years and if you’re Islamic there’s probably some extra stature in identifying with Arabic roots.
Walter Sieruksays
In this Robert Spencer interview he had spoken about at one the the places he had held held a lecture. Outside was homosexual man holding up a sign the had the words printed on it “Queers against Islamophobia.” This young man seem to be obvious or a lest naive to the Muslim hate and deadly violence towards people who are homosexuals . This is , again, a reminder of the “joke” that not really meant to be funny but to make a point. So here is the semi-joke about the different kinds of negative kind of behavior of a Fundamentalist Baptist Christian male and the kind of behavior of a Fundamentalist Salafist Muslim male when they encounter, at different times, a homosexual man. For when a Fundamentalist Baptist Christian man meets a “gay” man, that type of Christian will say many very ignorant things to him and as a result of those ignorant things said that “gay” man will end up with a headache. In contrast, when a Fundamentalist Salafist Muslim man encounters a homosexual man, that type of Muslim will cut that “gay” man’s head off.
Keith Cashmansays
This is a new type of ARMY.
It is an effective way to invade countries.
It is slow, cheap to run, and have found that idiots in Western Countries have not yet worked this out and are paying a huge amount of money in support their own demise.
Globalists in the West mainly identify as leftists with the support of the government and are a part of the ‘new’ ARMY.
mortimersays
The Apostate Prophet and Robert Spencer are both doing a great job DEPROGRAMMING MUSLIMS RIGHT OUT OF ISLAM.
gravenimagesays
Mortimer, when has Robert Spencer ever said that his aim is “deprogramming” Muslims? Of course, he has not. The purpose of Jihad Watch is to educate Infidels about the threat of Islam.
I’ve never heard The Apostate Prophet say that his purpose is “deprogramming” Muslims, either. In fact, most Muslims won’t listen to apostates at all–instead, they want to kill them.
This brave man gets huge numbers of death threats.
GI, there is CAUSE and then there is EFFECT. When Muslims read, view and listen to CRITICAL THOUGHT ABOUT ISLAM’S WORST CHARACTERISTS the EFFECT is that they are experiencing DEPROGRAMMING.
DEPROGRAMMING is a very simple of process of LEARNING FACTS which contradict the FALSE NARRATIVES of a CULT.
DEPROGRAMMING is basically a matter of CONNECTING THE DOTS and INTERPRETING and PERCEIVING the MEANING of a set of data by making a GENERAL CONCLUSION.
Muslims come to Jihad Watch and Apostate Prophet hoping to overturn what is being stated. At first, Muslims think that APOSTATE PROPHET and ROBERT SPENCER are MAKING THINGS UP. Secondly, the Muslims LOOK UP THE HADITHS and KORANIC VERSES. Then they either STOP VIEWING APOSTATE PROPHET and SPENCER or they continue to view them and BECOME DEPROGRAMMED FROM ISLAM.
Cause … and … EFFECT.
gravenimagesays
Mortimer wrote:
GI, there is CAUSE and then there is EFFECT. When Muslims read, view and listen to CRITICAL THOUGHT ABOUT ISLAM’S WORST CHARACTERISTS the EFFECT is that they are experiencing DEPROGRAMMING.
…………………………..
Mortimer, were you “deprogrammed” when you first learned about the violence of Islam? Of course not.
When I first began to study Islam in earnest after 9/11, I wanted to see if Islam really did preach violence–I was not being “deprogrammed” by anyone.
And assuming that all Muslims–who after all embrace a creed that rejects and despises reason and rational thought–are apt to be swayed by critical thought does not follow. I wish it did.
More:
DEPROGRAMMING is a very simple of process of LEARNING FACTS which contradict the FALSE NARRATIVES of a CULT.
DEPROGRAMMING is basically a matter of CONNECTING THE DOTS and INTERPRETING and PERCEIVING the MEANING of a set of data by making a GENERAL CONCLUSION.
…………………………..
Muslims are told not to listen to the filthy Infidels. And Islam, as I noted, despises reason. Given these two things, why would you assume that this will work?
More:
Muslims come to Jihad Watch and Apostate Prophet hoping to overturn what is being stated. At first, Muslims think that APOSTATE PROPHET and ROBERT SPENCER are MAKING THINGS UP. Secondly, the Muslims LOOK UP THE HADITHS and KORANIC VERSES. Then they either STOP VIEWING APOSTATE PROPHET and SPENCER or they continue to view them and BECOME DEPROGRAMMED FROM ISLAM.
…………………………..
I’m afraid this is not the case, Mortimer. Many Muslims have been posting here for years. Have Muslim supremacists like Ibrahim itace muhammed, Rezali Mehil, and Muslim2018 been deprogrammed from Islam? Not at all–instead they either spout Taqiyya or–even more frequently–threaten us with conquest and murder.
Can you point to a single apostate who claims to have been “deprogrammed” by Jihad Watch?
And the idea–which you have championed many times here–that Muslims know nothing about the Qur’an and Hadiths does not hold water. Many Muslims–and all the most pious ones–know all about the savagery of these texts, and indeed brutalize Infidels on just this basis.
More:
Cause … and … EFFECT.
…………………………..
And yet it does not happen. This would only be the case if all Muslims were horrified by violence, and thought that Islam was actually peaceful. These are not the Muslims we are most in danger from, in any case–Jihadists know that Islam demands violence, and they are more than happy to comply.
gravenimagesays
Of course, I do think that exposing the irrationality and violence of Islam is a good thing.
mortimersays
correction: When Muslims read, view and listen to CRITICAL THOUGHT ABOUT ISLAM’S WORST CHARACTERISTICS, the *EFFECT* is that they are experiencing DEPROGRAMMING.
DEPROGRAMMING occurs whenever FACTS are introduced which create COGNITIVE DISSONANCE.
gravenimagesays
How many Muslims have left Islam because the Infidels have told them Islam is not a good thing?
Carol the 1stsays
Mortimer, maybe they’re being *informed* rather than *deprogrammed*. They might just have the type of hearts that are receptive to information they might in the past have tended to push aside. Watching some clips from the Maajid Nawaz radio show recently, I saw him often challenge the more combative muslims with the raw truth. Invariably they try to deflect or combat him tooth and nail. You wonder if later on it sinks in. It would be interesting to know if that methodology actually does have an effect – especially when it comes from someone from their own background but who has not officially rejected Islam.
He is a pretty iffy figure at best. Mostly a stealth Jihadist.
Carol the 1stsays
Well-informed people like Robert Spencer and the Apostate Prophet need to keep an eye out for one of our best intellectuals – JORDAN PETERSON. Maajid Nawaz recently had a pleasant interview with him and near the end (38:00 to 49:15) they discuss Free Speech, Islam, and Jordan’s desire to learn more about Islam and thus contribute to current dialogue etc. Maajid quickly offers to give him his help. Should this be setting off alarm bells?:
When Robert Spencer was booed during of his lecture when he exposed ,from Islam’s own authorized books , the violent contents of Islam, that negative reaction does, indeed , show something. What that negative reaction of that specific group Mr. Spencer spoke to showed ,as in revealed something.
For this negative reaction revealed from that group in that lecture room is a reflection of many of the uninformed Westerners in the different Western nation of the world. As Brigitte Gabriel had written in one of her books which has the title of BECAUSE THEY HATE.
In the book of she wrote “The West is ignorant and refuses to learn.”
Sadly her written statement from that book has been proven to be true.
Walter Sieruksays
In the above video interview the subject of “reforming Islam” was brought up. It was then asked ” Is it possible to reform Islam ? ” Other good question concerning the “reformation” of Islam is “How to define the word “reform ” or “reformed ” when applied to Islam.
On the topic of a reformation within Islam, a very different yet possible valid and true view on this had been explain by the Christian, Nabeel Qureshi ,who was in the past was a Muslim .He wrote in his book which is entitled ANSWERING JIHAD wrote about the suggestion “that Islam needs a reformation .What they may not realize is that radical Islam is the Islamic reformation. This might sound shocking, but consider: Just as the Protestant Reformation was an attempt to raze centuries of Catholic tradition and return to the canonical text, so radical Islam is an attempt to raze centuries of traditions of various schools of Islamic thought and return to the canonical text of the Quran and Muhammad’s life. This desire to return to the original form of Islam can be seen not only in the words of Sayyid Qutb, but also in his method. He focused almost entirely on references to the Quran. it is true also of the Muslim Brotherhood and ISIS today, whose publications and proclamations are punctuated by references to the Quran and Hadith literature. Radical Muslim organizations are explicit in their aim to reform Islam.” page 75. Further on pages 79,80 the author makes his case clear by writing that “Radical Islam is the Islamic reformation . The endeavor to modernize Islam and make it relevant to the twenty -first century is called progressive Islam. Progressive Muslim thought leaders, though few in number and limited in influence are present and are working to recreate Islam’s religious framework from within. Indeed, that is what it would take for Islam to become devoted to peace – not reformation but reimagination. “
gravenimagesays
A reformation almost always attempts to return to a creed’s roots. In that case, Islam can never be peacefully reformed, because its roots are violent.
Carol the 1stsays
I’d agree – that does seem to be the crux of the matter – the old “You can’t put lipstick on a pig” predicament!
gravenimagesays
True, Carol.
Piet-Hein Nelissensays
Thanks for a terrific conversation! You’re heading in the right direction, far as I’m concerned. I’m on board. Europeans will be on board. Love, Piet- Hein, The Netherlands
gravenimagesays
Great to see a Dutch patriot here!
I am a great admirer of your countryman, the brave Geert Wilders.
Davidsays
Next time a great way to end would be to let your guest plug the book or study items
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Walter Sieruk says
As the about the title this news posting this which starts off with first three words “The apostate prophet…” A in all fairness it’s but totally accurate to classify the founder of Islam as an “apostate Prophet” The reason that this is so is because a person who is an actual apostate is someone who has gone ,as in fell , into doctrinal error. According to the Bible to have doctrinal error, as in contradiction to the teaching found in the Bible , , as in Isaiah 8:20.
As the the founder of Islam , Muhammad, m he wasn’t ever Bible based to begin with .So in the sense he didn’t fall way from the Bible because he was never Bible based for the very start. In spite of what Muhammad might had claimed about himself.
It’s much better and more accurate in the light of the Bible to classify Muhammad as a false prophet.
For Jesus had predicted and warned about the coming of such men as Muhammad. For Jesus declared “Beware of false prophets ,which come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly they are ravening wolves.” Mathew 7:15. [K.J.V.] Further, in the Bible it is also written that there are “many false prophets are gone out into the world.’ First John 4:1.
mortimer says
RE TERM “APOSTATE PROPHET” … a very good choice of a PSEUDONYM mocking Mohammed who mocked all ‘others’ !
This PSEUDONYM is GREAT because Mohammed was indeed an “APOSTATE” from heretical Christianity and a clueless deviant from normality.
Of course, almost everything in Mohmmed’s ISLAM is topsy-turvy and the OPPOSITE of what it says and this term (apostate) is no doubt an ECHO of the word HANIF which Mohammed used to refer to his group of ‘HERETICS’ from Christianity … Mohammed used ‘hanif’ as a badge of honor, rather than of shame … its original implication! Mohammed was so STUPID, he thought HANIF meant ‘righteous’ or something similar. IT MEANT “A HERETIC” or “PAGAN”. Unwittingly Mohammed was correct … his group was pagans.
Hanif (Arabic: حنيف) is an Arabic masculine given name, which means a righteous person or a true believer. The origin of the word is uncertain, although it is generally agreed that it is derived from the Syriac word hanpe, which means ‘heathen’.
Etymology
It is generally agreed that the word Ḥanīf (plural: ḥunafā’) is derived from the Syriac word hanpe, which means ‘heathen’. However, there is no credible theory which can explain the transformation of the term’s meaning – from heathen to monotheist. Nabataeans used Hanif’s cognate to designate a follower of Hellenized religion. And Nabataean is generally considered as the region where the transformation of the term’s meaning took place.[3]
Alfred Felix Landon Beeston argues that the ambiguity associated with the shift of the term’s meaning can be largely removed if one assumes that the term was introduced via Najran, instead of its direct introduction from Syria. He argues that the Najranites had adopted the term hanpe from the Syrian missionaries, who used it for all non-Christians, irrespective of them being polytheist or monotheist. The 5th century inhabitants of Mecca had strong trading ties with the Yemen, where the wealthier classes were overwhelmingly monotheist. And, as the Najranites used the term Ḥanīf to designate the Yemenis, it would have been easier for the Meccans to adopt it in the sense of monotheism
J D S says
Muhammad stole all his Islamic hoopla from the BIble (perverted it) and paganism and even if he was visited by an angel it was one of Satan’s angels or maybe even Satan himself…and those who follow Muhammad’s way are bound for that awful Lake of Fire in which Satan and his like will spend eternity. REPENT BEFORE ITS TOO LATE.
FYI says
It was the “angel” Jibreel who is defined in islam as “the enemy of the Jews”.
That was muhammed’s “guide”.
An antisemitic “angel” of courses is more likely a ..demon.
{Sahih Al Bukhari vol4 book 60 no 3329}
Of course..
“Even satan can disguise himself to look like an angel of light”
2 Corinthians 11 v 14
Walter Sieruk says
In this interview with Robert Spencer there was discussion about the strong antisemitism and likewise who this reflected in the Muslim way of thinking in the so many Muslims dislike and sometimes even hate the Jewish people. On this two things need to be made known .
First, the Arab women, Brigitte Gabriel who used to live in one of those countries in one of those Middle Eastern countries but is now is an American citizens who naturally lives in the USA ,as stated and is the head of actforamerica.org had spoken in words and declared in writing that in many Muslims nations in the Middle East there is a saying which is “First comes Saturday , then comes Sunday.” That statement ,she explained, means “first go after and eliminate the Jews and then after that is accomplished go after and eliminate the Christians.”
Second,this strong and vicious Muslim hate for the Jewish people is the results of a firm but blind and unquestioning faith in the “holy book” of Islam the Koran. Which instructs in violence and killing for the cause of Islam. As found in, for example, 4: 89. 5:33. 9:5,111,123. 47:4. In other words the Koran inspires and causes such hideous violence. Furthermore, another role the Koran has in such deadly Islamic terror attacks in the Jewish nation of Israel is that the Koran contains many negative about the Jewish people. This has everything to do with the history of the prophet and founder of Islam, who was Muhammad The history is that for a specific time period of his life Muhammad lived among many Jewish people and he liked them at first. Later then they would not accept his claim of being of prophet, Muhammad then took is dislike to them that then turned into bitterness and even hate for them. So in the hate and bitterness he spoke many derogatory things about the as even referring to them as “apes and swine.” Such word of bitterness and hate, along with other thing he said, where written down on things and then later after his death those words were together together and then eventually, in time went in the composition of the Koran. Therefore, that why the Koran reads and in does about the Jewish people, as in calling them descendants of “apes and swine.” As seen in the Koran in 2:65; 7:166.; 5:60. Furthermore, as a Christian I can keyboard that there is a chance the Muhammad actually might had been a prophet but the important thing to understand is that Muhammad was NOT a prophet send by God. Instead, Muhammad was a deceptive, lying false prophet send by Satan to lead many people astray and even and straight into hell. Jesus, in fact, had predicted and warned of the coming of such men as Muhammad. For Jesus taught “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.” Matthew 7:15. In addition, the Bible further warns that “many false prophets are gone out into the world.” First John 4:1. [K.J.V.]
Carol the 1st says
Brigitte Gabriel is not Arab, Walter. She is of Lebanese descent. She was once criticized for calling Arabs “barbarians”. Reading her Wikipedia biography is startling – it reveals just how dedicated some platforms are to denigrating those who speak against Islam – despite how remarkable they happen to be.
Here is something Brigitte said in defense of herself:
“”I am not anti-Muslim, I am anti ideologies which want to kill free people and subjugate them right now, in the name of the Islamic religion. I would fight with the same passion if crazy Christians were trying to do that, if crazy Jews were trying to do that, or whatever crazy religious is trying to do that. I am for the human spirit and for the individuality of the human spirit.”
gravenimage says
Some Middle Eastern Christians identify as Arab; some don’t.
Carol the 1st says
Yes, there has been rather a mix over the years and if you’re Islamic there’s probably some extra stature in identifying with Arabic roots.
Walter Sieruk says
In this Robert Spencer interview he had spoken about at one the the places he had held held a lecture. Outside was homosexual man holding up a sign the had the words printed on it “Queers against Islamophobia.” This young man seem to be obvious or a lest naive to the Muslim hate and deadly violence towards people who are homosexuals . This is , again, a reminder of the “joke” that not really meant to be funny but to make a point. So here is the semi-joke about the different kinds of negative kind of behavior of a Fundamentalist Baptist Christian male and the kind of behavior of a Fundamentalist Salafist Muslim male when they encounter, at different times, a homosexual man. For when a Fundamentalist Baptist Christian man meets a “gay” man, that type of Christian will say many very ignorant things to him and as a result of those ignorant things said that “gay” man will end up with a headache. In contrast, when a Fundamentalist Salafist Muslim man encounters a homosexual man, that type of Muslim will cut that “gay” man’s head off.
Keith Cashman says
This is a new type of ARMY.
It is an effective way to invade countries.
It is slow, cheap to run, and have found that idiots in Western Countries have not yet worked this out and are paying a huge amount of money in support their own demise.
Globalists in the West mainly identify as leftists with the support of the government and are a part of the ‘new’ ARMY.
mortimer says
The Apostate Prophet and Robert Spencer are both doing a great job DEPROGRAMMING MUSLIMS RIGHT OUT OF ISLAM.
gravenimage says
Mortimer, when has Robert Spencer ever said that his aim is “deprogramming” Muslims? Of course, he has not. The purpose of Jihad Watch is to educate Infidels about the threat of Islam.
I’ve never heard The Apostate Prophet say that his purpose is “deprogramming” Muslims, either. In fact, most Muslims won’t listen to apostates at all–instead, they want to kill them.
This brave man gets huge numbers of death threats.
Here’s his Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/theapostateprophet/
mortimer says
GI, there is CAUSE and then there is EFFECT. When Muslims read, view and listen to CRITICAL THOUGHT ABOUT ISLAM’S WORST CHARACTERISTS the EFFECT is that they are experiencing DEPROGRAMMING.
DEPROGRAMMING is a very simple of process of LEARNING FACTS which contradict the FALSE NARRATIVES of a CULT.
DEPROGRAMMING is basically a matter of CONNECTING THE DOTS and INTERPRETING and PERCEIVING the MEANING of a set of data by making a GENERAL CONCLUSION.
Muslims come to Jihad Watch and Apostate Prophet hoping to overturn what is being stated. At first, Muslims think that APOSTATE PROPHET and ROBERT SPENCER are MAKING THINGS UP. Secondly, the Muslims LOOK UP THE HADITHS and KORANIC VERSES. Then they either STOP VIEWING APOSTATE PROPHET and SPENCER or they continue to view them and BECOME DEPROGRAMMED FROM ISLAM.
Cause … and … EFFECT.
gravenimage says
Mortimer wrote:
GI, there is CAUSE and then there is EFFECT. When Muslims read, view and listen to CRITICAL THOUGHT ABOUT ISLAM’S WORST CHARACTERISTS the EFFECT is that they are experiencing DEPROGRAMMING.
…………………………..
Mortimer, were you “deprogrammed” when you first learned about the violence of Islam? Of course not.
When I first began to study Islam in earnest after 9/11, I wanted to see if Islam really did preach violence–I was not being “deprogrammed” by anyone.
And assuming that all Muslims–who after all embrace a creed that rejects and despises reason and rational thought–are apt to be swayed by critical thought does not follow. I wish it did.
More:
DEPROGRAMMING is a very simple of process of LEARNING FACTS which contradict the FALSE NARRATIVES of a CULT.
DEPROGRAMMING is basically a matter of CONNECTING THE DOTS and INTERPRETING and PERCEIVING the MEANING of a set of data by making a GENERAL CONCLUSION.
…………………………..
Muslims are told not to listen to the filthy Infidels. And Islam, as I noted, despises reason. Given these two things, why would you assume that this will work?
More:
Muslims come to Jihad Watch and Apostate Prophet hoping to overturn what is being stated. At first, Muslims think that APOSTATE PROPHET and ROBERT SPENCER are MAKING THINGS UP. Secondly, the Muslims LOOK UP THE HADITHS and KORANIC VERSES. Then they either STOP VIEWING APOSTATE PROPHET and SPENCER or they continue to view them and BECOME DEPROGRAMMED FROM ISLAM.
…………………………..
I’m afraid this is not the case, Mortimer. Many Muslims have been posting here for years. Have Muslim supremacists like Ibrahim itace muhammed, Rezali Mehil, and Muslim2018 been deprogrammed from Islam? Not at all–instead they either spout Taqiyya or–even more frequently–threaten us with conquest and murder.
Can you point to a single apostate who claims to have been “deprogrammed” by Jihad Watch?
And the idea–which you have championed many times here–that Muslims know nothing about the Qur’an and Hadiths does not hold water. Many Muslims–and all the most pious ones–know all about the savagery of these texts, and indeed brutalize Infidels on just this basis.
More:
Cause … and … EFFECT.
…………………………..
And yet it does not happen. This would only be the case if all Muslims were horrified by violence, and thought that Islam was actually peaceful. These are not the Muslims we are most in danger from, in any case–Jihadists know that Islam demands violence, and they are more than happy to comply.
gravenimage says
Of course, I do think that exposing the irrationality and violence of Islam is a good thing.
mortimer says
correction: When Muslims read, view and listen to CRITICAL THOUGHT ABOUT ISLAM’S WORST CHARACTERISTICS, the *EFFECT* is that they are experiencing DEPROGRAMMING.
DEPROGRAMMING occurs whenever FACTS are introduced which create COGNITIVE DISSONANCE.
gravenimage says
How many Muslims have left Islam because the Infidels have told them Islam is not a good thing?
Carol the 1st says
Mortimer, maybe they’re being *informed* rather than *deprogrammed*. They might just have the type of hearts that are receptive to information they might in the past have tended to push aside. Watching some clips from the Maajid Nawaz radio show recently, I saw him often challenge the more combative muslims with the raw truth. Invariably they try to deflect or combat him tooth and nail. You wonder if later on it sinks in. It would be interesting to know if that methodology actually does have an effect – especially when it comes from someone from their own background but who has not officially rejected Islam.
MICHELE CANON says
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBazOgS_WyQ Majiid Nawaz is a traitor.
gravenimage says
He is a pretty iffy figure at best. Mostly a stealth Jihadist.
Carol the 1st says
Well-informed people like Robert Spencer and the Apostate Prophet need to keep an eye out for one of our best intellectuals – JORDAN PETERSON. Maajid Nawaz recently had a pleasant interview with him and near the end (38:00 to 49:15) they discuss Free Speech, Islam, and Jordan’s desire to learn more about Islam and thus contribute to current dialogue etc. Maajid quickly offers to give him his help. Should this be setting off alarm bells?:
Jordan Peterson Meets Maajid Nawaz: The Full Interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMBfT38xbhU&t=349s
gravenimage says
Carol, here’s more on this equivocal character:
https://www.jihadwatch.org/tag/maajid-nawaz
Walter Sieruk says
When Robert Spencer was booed during of his lecture when he exposed ,from Islam’s own authorized books , the violent contents of Islam, that negative reaction does, indeed , show something. What that negative reaction of that specific group Mr. Spencer spoke to showed ,as in revealed something.
For this negative reaction revealed from that group in that lecture room is a reflection of many of the uninformed Westerners in the different Western nation of the world. As Brigitte Gabriel had written in one of her books which has the title of BECAUSE THEY HATE.
In the book of she wrote “The West is ignorant and refuses to learn.”
Sadly her written statement from that book has been proven to be true.
Walter Sieruk says
In the above video interview the subject of “reforming Islam” was brought up. It was then asked ” Is it possible to reform Islam ? ” Other good question concerning the “reformation” of Islam is “How to define the word “reform ” or “reformed ” when applied to Islam.
On the topic of a reformation within Islam, a very different yet possible valid and true view on this had been explain by the Christian, Nabeel Qureshi ,who was in the past was a Muslim .He wrote in his book which is entitled ANSWERING JIHAD wrote about the suggestion “that Islam needs a reformation .What they may not realize is that radical Islam is the Islamic reformation. This might sound shocking, but consider: Just as the Protestant Reformation was an attempt to raze centuries of Catholic tradition and return to the canonical text, so radical Islam is an attempt to raze centuries of traditions of various schools of Islamic thought and return to the canonical text of the Quran and Muhammad’s life. This desire to return to the original form of Islam can be seen not only in the words of Sayyid Qutb, but also in his method. He focused almost entirely on references to the Quran. it is true also of the Muslim Brotherhood and ISIS today, whose publications and proclamations are punctuated by references to the Quran and Hadith literature. Radical Muslim organizations are explicit in their aim to reform Islam.” page 75. Further on pages 79,80 the author makes his case clear by writing that “Radical Islam is the Islamic reformation . The endeavor to modernize Islam and make it relevant to the twenty -first century is called progressive Islam. Progressive Muslim thought leaders, though few in number and limited in influence are present and are working to recreate Islam’s religious framework from within. Indeed, that is what it would take for Islam to become devoted to peace – not reformation but reimagination. “
gravenimage says
A reformation almost always attempts to return to a creed’s roots. In that case, Islam can never be peacefully reformed, because its roots are violent.
Carol the 1st says
I’d agree – that does seem to be the crux of the matter – the old “You can’t put lipstick on a pig” predicament!
gravenimage says
True, Carol.
Piet-Hein Nelissen says
Thanks for a terrific conversation! You’re heading in the right direction, far as I’m concerned. I’m on board. Europeans will be on board. Love, Piet- Hein, The Netherlands
gravenimage says
Great to see a Dutch patriot here!
I am a great admirer of your countryman, the brave Geert Wilders.
David says
Next time a great way to end would be to let your guest plug the book or study items