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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Rod Dreher: No need for “anxiety” about Islam in US, for “America will turn Islam into Moralistic Therapeutic Deism”

Dec 21, 2018 1:39 pm By Robert Spencer

Rod Dreher of The American Conservative predicts: “This is why I don’t share the anxiety many conservatives have about Islam in America (Islam in Europe is a different matter, for particularly European reasons). For better or for worse, post-Christian America is going to turn Islam into Moralistic Therapeutic Deism too.”

Are there secular Muslims in the United States? Of course. Are there Muslims who have adopted Western values in the United States? Certainly? Are there Muslims in the United States who have become less devout and observant in Islam? No doubt about it. Are there Muslims who have adopted the moral relativism and libertinism of some of their allies on the Left? Sure.

But will Islam itself be overcome in America, and become “Moral Therapeutic Deism,” such that there would be no cause to “share the anxiety many conservatives have about Islam in America,” i.e., no reason to be concerned about jihad terror and Sharia oppression of women and others?

Maybe. But there is considerable evidence to the contrary. Take, for example, American journalist Charles Glass, when he was kidnapped and held hostage in Beirut by Hizballah in 1987. “The guards,” Glass recalled, “were all young. They liked Michael Jackson and Madonna. One of them was disappointed when I told him Madonna was American, but he said he liked her anyway.” (Tribes with Flags, p. 468) They loved American pop culture, which Ismail Royer, quoted by Dreher below, might consider an example of “the crisis of advancing secularization in our community.” But their secularization didn’t stop them from working for Hizballah and holding guns to Glass’ head.

Another secularized Muslim was Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel, who murdered 84 people in Nice, France in a vehicular jihad attack in 2016. According to the Mailonline, Bouhlel “was an ‘unlikely jihadist’ who flouted every rule of Islam.” He “drank alcohol, ate pork and took drugs,” and “never prayed or attended a mosque.” Likewise the 9/11 hijackers were secularized enough to go to strip clubs before they flew jets into buildings. What Dreher doesn’t consider is that a Muslim could indeed become secularized and Westernized, and then try to cancel out his sins by doing a great deed for Allah. And what good deed weighs the most? Jihad. A hadith has a Muslim asking Muhammad: “Instruct me as to such a deed as equals Jihad (in reward).” Muhammad replied, “I do not find such a deed.” (Bukhari 4.52.44) So if a believer goes on jihad, his good deeds will outweigh all his evil deeds. Thus if a jihadist knows he is about to wage a great jihad, he knows its value will outweigh anything evil he has done, and he can relax a bit, have a few drinks, etc.

Then there is the example of Mohammed Reza Taheri-Azar, who ran down nine people on the campus of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill with an SUV in 2006. Those who knew him recalled that Taheri-Azar was a “marijuana smoker and ‘most always high’ and that he drank heavily as well….Though, it is reported that in the past year he turned away from these habits and became more religious.” So Taheri-Azar was an example of “the crisis of advancing secularization in our community,” and then he recovered his religion, and embarked upon a jihad.

There are myriad other examples of the same kind of thing. Dreher fails to realize that it isn’t a flat Either/Or between Islam and Moral Therapeutic Deism. Muslims can easily move from one to the other, and some decide to wage jihad to rid themselves of the guilt that they may feel they have incurred by living in un-Islamic ways.

The American Conservative, a paleocon publication founded by Pat Buchanan, has never been much for recognizing the jihad threat; quite the contrary. Its executive editor, Kelley Beaucar Vlahos, has written several lengthy screeds attacking me, Pamela Geller, and anyone who dares oppose jihad mass murder and Sharia oppression for our “Islamophobia,” which is a propaganda neologism designed to intimidate people into thinking it is wrong to oppose jihad terror. She hates us with such burning intensity that she even published one after jihadis attempted to murder us all at our free speech event in Garland, Texas. Vlahos wasn’t upset with the jihadis, she was upset with us for provoking the poor dears.

And so Dreher, Vlahos, and other American Conservative writers will continue on their way, and if at any point they end up with a jihadi’s knife slicing through their necks, they can congratulate themselves in their last moments that they did all they could to save us all from Moral Therapeutic Deism.

Dreher didn’t even wake up when this extraordinary comment was posted under his article:

Ergeneqon says:
December 20, 2018 at 9:47 am

Trust me when I say that the inevitable divorce between Islam and the Left will be NASTY.

Now, the following rant will be harsh, but with regard to the secularization taking place among American Muslims, I say good riddance. Here’s why.

Islam doesn’t need these traitors. It is they who need Islam.

The Qur’an is very clear on this:

0 you who have attained to faith! If you ever abandon your faith, God will in time bring forth [in your stead] people whom He loves and who love Him – humble towards the believers, proud towards all who deny the truth: [people] who strive hard in God’s cause, and do not fear to be censured by anyone who might censure them: such is God’s favour, which He grants unto whom He wills. And God is infinite, all-knowing. (Surah 5: Verse 55)

The problem with many so-called American Muslim groups and individuals is that they argue from a position of weakness.

They’re trying to change their own values and principles in order to not only be accepted but also to appease the very factions (mostly composed of conservatives and segments of the right) that they perceive as “oppressing” them.

This constant apologizing for their beliefs, trying to change peoples’ “perceptions” of Islam, of trying to convince others that they’re not terrorists – none of it has worked nor will such tactics work.

The support for gay marriage among these Muslim idiots is a misguided attempt at gaining acceptance from mainstream culture. But spiritually, they will pay in the long run.

It never pays to suck up, and it especially never pays to sell out God’s scripture for a paltry price.

These cultural and secularized Muslims have to understand is that we’re not Jews. We can’t deny the claims of our faith and still be called Muslims.

I don’t care what their reasoning is – these fake Muslims who are going a long with the zeitgeist are not Muslims. They’re apostates, and they must be called out as such.

It’s nigh time that Islam in America go on the ideological offensive. We must stand firm for God, for scripture, and for the truths of Islam, with no apologetic bent whatsoever. And we must take the fight to liberalism, secularism, and all of its offshoots.

We will not make any apologies, either for the supposed violent verses of the Qur’an, controversial hadith, or dhimmitude.

No apologies. Not now, not ever, and useless parasites such Robert Spencer, Geert Wilders, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and co can all collectively go straight to Hell.

And for the record, I was born in the US and I came from a Kemalist Turkish family, and I have thoroughly rejected the legacy and thought of Kemal Ataturk. How’s that for secularization?

It’s unbecoming of Islam to play the oppressed card, and it’s sure as hell beneath a Turk.

To this bracing honesty Dreher responded: “I would rather live next door to Pat Robertson than that Muslim hothead. Pat Robertson at worst would insult me. That guy would enslave or even kill me if given the chance.”

But he still evidently thinks that Islam will become something that is not Islam in the United States, and that therefore there is no reason to be concerned. It’s the stuff that dreams are made on.

“Muslim Discipleship In Post-Christian America,” by Rod Dreher, American Conservative, December 19, 2018:

A longtime reader who comments under the name Adh-Dhariyat, writes:

…I think the more native that American Muslims become and the further removed we are from the ‘old country’, the more we’ll lose our religion. I can already see it in those of my generation who are barely even culturally Muslim. Or who are fully atheist. Plus, the Muslim population is growing at a time when inter-faith marriages are becoming more and more common. Lovely though they may be, I’d be willing to bet that children of inter-faith marriages are much more MTD than orthodox of either parents’ religion.Certainly, there’s good in graying some of the retrograde lines which are drawn in old Muslim societies (humane treatment of homosexuals, better opportunities for women, etc) but eventually American culture will consume all lines of distinction, don’t you think? There’s vibrancy in difference and disagreement and we’re going to lose that. Astagfirullah indeed.

This is why I don’t share the anxiety many conservatives have about Islam in America (Islam in Europe is a different matter, for particularly European reasons). For better or for worse, post-Christian America is going to turn Islam into Moralistic Therapeutic Deism too. Look:

I’d love to be from those who want to believe everything is fine with Islam in America. I hate being a downer all the time but at some point aren’t we going to wake up & face the crisis of advancing secularization in our community? Is acceptance worth trading our religion for? https://t.co/TOx4CzM9mq

— Ismail Royer (@IsmailRoyer) December 16, 2018

In Comment magazine, Shadi Hamid has a good short essay on Islam and diversity. He says that as Muslims become more mainstream in America, they are losing their distinctive identity….

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Comments

  1. Michael Copeland says

    Dec 21, 2018 at 1:50 pm

    This wishful thinking of Dreher’s did not work for the Yazidis, nor for the crowds in Nice.
    No planning can be based on pipe-dreams.

    • Anton Filipenkov says

      Dec 21, 2018 at 2:42 pm

      Agreed. Dreher just repeats the mantra of the left that they like can control the Islam and Muslims in their country both culturally and by plain force if needed. But what we are seeing right now is that when the share of the Muslim population is under 3-2% of the total one then some similar processes do occur as depicted by Dreher. It doesn’t matter. I assume it has always been so in earlier times. Not just now. But when their share is rising, like over 10% or so suddenly there are “radicalized” ones and every not too much devout Muslim becomes more and more devout. From that point on, no government can’t do anything realizing that any “cure” will lead to a lot of blood and the situation deteriorates.

      • Richard says

        Dec 21, 2018 at 3:29 pm

        That is exactly true. Archbishop LeFebvre was in charge of educating children in Catholic schools throughout Africa. He said it was very important to keep the Muslim percentage of kids on the schools down because if the proportion of Muslim students grew to abut 20% they would take over the whole school. Your faith may be harmed when you are all alone in a new country, and most certainly you are more afraid to express what you truly feel. but – as you wrote – when about 10% of he people agree with you, you can back one another up and reinforce your beliefs among yourselves. Then you can begin to strike out for what you believe and perhaps get even for anyone who ha attacked your Islamic beliefs in the past. These Muslims are good people – But his web site has made it crystal clear what being a “good Muslim” entails. It isn’t so much a question of would we want to live in such a society as it is COULD we live in such a society … and for how long.

      • MarkD says

        Dec 22, 2018 at 9:46 am

        To paraphrase Philip Sheridan “The only good Muslim is a dead Muslim”

    • Lydia Church says

      Dec 21, 2018 at 8:19 pm

      News lead tip:

      http://www.stopk12indoctrination.org

      is a website that reports on indoctrination in public schools nation wide, including the islamic variety.
      It is linked to the David Horowitz Freedom Center.
      You can also get involved to help fight indoctrination through the site.

      Also, on Front Page Media for today is an article about how the government (in Germany) wants to re-educate kids of right wing parents.

      It just keeps getting crazier out there. Now is not the time to have kids in public schools! They are exposed to so many bad influences!

    • BC says

      Dec 29, 2018 at 7:09 am

      All religion is hokum inveted to control people. Islam is the greatest hokum of all and Mohammad invented it to control the Arabs. However after he died many Arabs rebelled against it. Unfortunately the leaders were able to enforce unity again and went on the force Islam on every neighbouring nation of the time. Even they attempted to Islamise Europe but were forced back eventually

  2. The Remorseless Headsman says

    Dec 21, 2018 at 2:33 pm

    I most definitely will not be betting my neck on this.

  3. Terry Gain says

    Dec 21, 2018 at 2:34 pm

    Barack Obama’s love of beer and cigarettes didn’t prevent him for giving Iran 150 billion dollars and a clear and unfettered path to nuclear weapons nor prevent him from threatening us that “the future must not belong to those who slander (tell the truth about) the prophet of Islam.

    Asia Bibi could not be reached for comment.

    • Anton Filipenkov says

      Dec 21, 2018 at 2:43 pm

      “Asia Bibi could not be reached for comment.”

      +1

    • gravenimage says

      Dec 21, 2018 at 2:44 pm

      +1

    • Raja says

      Dec 21, 2018 at 8:38 pm

      Terry ,

      Good comment.

    • mummymovie says

      Dec 22, 2018 at 1:54 am

      Right!?!

      And Dick Cheney’s Iraq invasion folly was predicated on the the absolute and certain universal irresistibility of American-style consumerism, pop culture, and “breads and circuses”. He and Rumsfeld were certain Iraq, once it got a dose of it, would be the first in a series of dominoes to come crashing down like Saddam’s statue, with all of the middle eastern islamic theocracies following suit in short order.

      And just look at how that experiment turned out: Instead of stopping the spread of islam, it was like gasoline on the fire and a windstorm to fan the flames.

      This Rod yahoo couldn’t be more wrong: Western Europe is being consumed by islam in a period of a few years; its culture vanishing before our very eyes; and we are foolishly and blindly following down the same path of importing and appeasing islam that led them to where they are today, as islamists have now fine-tuned their formula for masterful manipulation of our politically correct media, politicians, liberal laws, welfare and immigration/asylee/refugee programs.

      This is no joke.

  4. Wellington says

    Dec 21, 2018 at 2:40 pm

    I think Dreher is wrong and if he is this is not the kind of wrong you can recover from easily, if at all.

    Again I would contend that an ideology must be based on what it says and not on the fact that many believers in that ideology don’t fully implement its tenets. The Islamic ideology is a mortal enemy of liberty while the Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish, etc. ideologies are not mortal enemies of liberty. This is what is most important to focus upon. Seems Dreher hasn’t.

  5. gravenimage says

    Dec 21, 2018 at 2:41 pm

    Rod Dreher: No need for “anxiety” about Islam in US, for “America will turn Islam into Moralistic Therapeutic Deism”
    ……………………..

    Uh…right. Another fool who thinks that because a lot of Muslim youth like rap music and soccer–or even beer and bacon cheeseburgers–that they cannot be pious Jihadists. This has been disproven over and over again.

    • mummymovie says

      Dec 22, 2018 at 1:58 am

      Don’t ever forget about the ol’ Redemptive Jihad!

      It’s a doozie.

      • gravenimage says

        Dec 23, 2018 at 9:47 pm

        True, mummymovie–murdering Infidels is a “good deed” in Islam that wipes out any number of slip-ups like snacking during Ramadan…

  6. Westman says

    Dec 21, 2018 at 2:52 pm

    If we could all live for another 1000 years Islam would be a story of history, like Greek Mythology. Unfortunately, our time is now, and such changes cannot be expected for many generations.

    Islam, without a Caliphate, is an obvious failure that did not achieve the objectives and promises of Islamic doctrine.The attempt to create a Caliphate(ISIS) was likely fueled by a realization that it was now or never as the information age makes Islam appear inceasingly ridiculous and violent despite apologist pleas for a false image. Erdogan’s rolling back of Ataturk’s reforms are another indication of Islamic panic in the face of growing criticism.

    Rod Dreher’s crystal ball has skipped centuries of conflicts that lie ahead; most likely, starting in Europe. Uncontrolled migration will bring the same conditions to the US. He should take a night walk through a European no-go zone to get his crystal ball synchronized to the current date.

    • gravenimage says

      Dec 21, 2018 at 3:07 pm

      Maybe, Westman–but Islam hasn’t changed at all substantively in the past 1000 years–there is no guarantee that it will change much in the next 1000 years, either.

      • Westman says

        Dec 21, 2018 at 3:40 pm

        It has never had pressure on its ideology before, being a closed society. Modern communication has changed that in both directions – Islam carriers are now streaming to better opportunities(including jihadis) they have seen and the closed societies, with their attrocities in the name of Allah, are in plain view.

        I’m certain there will be no future kings of Saudi Arabia or Grand Ayatollahs running Iran in hundreds of years from now. However, that means nothing about the real dangers to our next 10-20 generations.

        • gravenimage says

          Dec 21, 2018 at 4:08 pm

          I hope you are right, Westman–but I would not count on it.

          Communications have been more and more open over the past several hundred years, and it has made little difference to Islam–except for more easily disseminating that foul creed.

          Of course, it *has* become easier for Infidels to learn about the savagery of Islam–something I very much appreciate.

          But I very much agree with you that whatever the future holds that we face a serious danger from Islam in the here and now.

      • Joe says

        Dec 22, 2018 at 6:58 am

        Islam changed substantially between 700 and 1100. The Koran that Mohammed (assuming he existed) is different from the Koran from 1200. The Korans before 900 didn’t have the assimilation such as killing the apostates or taxing the unbeliever. Korans from 300 and fragments from before Christ exist. There is a reasonable chance that these older Korans could be translated, and Islam could go back to its “roots”, which Muslims seem to think is Mohammed (definitely not the case). When faced with Mohammed’s Koran, perhaps a Muslim movement could be started to return to it. We can all live with the Koran from 700.

        • gravenimage says

          Dec 23, 2018 at 9:51 pm

          Joe, you keep saying this–but there is actually no indication that Islam and the Qur’an changed significantly a thousand years ago.

          And by that time Islam had already violently spread by the sword to huge swaths of the civilized world–I don’t think that’s something we could have ever happily lived with.

  7. Huh!?! says

    Dec 21, 2018 at 3:14 pm

    Gee…I feel so much better now. Someone might what to send him the book: Stealth Jihad by Robert Spencer.

  8. Robert Carrillo says

    Dec 21, 2018 at 3:15 pm

    Dear Rod,

    If you want to risk your own life, and your family, that is your business.

    1,400 years of history connected to this cult would prove your theory to be tantamount to childish wishful thinking (Better yet – FEELING).

    Please show me any place on the entire planet, where your theory has worked, and there is peace and harmony there as a result..

    Stated differently, please show me any place in the entire world, where this “group hug” and assimilation theory has not worked out miserably for those who have tried this approach..for centuries..

    Go ahead… ..I’ll wait.. Tic-tock.. Tic-tock.. ..Still waiting..

    OK…I’ve waited long enough..

    Answer? Nowhere! Not in western Europe. Not in the UK.. Not in Australia.. Not in Canada.. Not in the United States.. Not even in Africa, the Middle East, Asia, or Indonesia.. Nowhere!

  9. ahem says

    Dec 21, 2018 at 3:21 pm

    Dreher is a horse’s ass about so many things….

  10. ExPraliteMonk says

    Dec 21, 2018 at 3:25 pm

    Dreher is National Public Radio’s idea of a Christian.

  11. loki says

    Dec 21, 2018 at 4:23 pm

    I’ve read Dreher’s book ‘The Benedict Option’ wherin he discusses moralistic therapeutic deism in america. MTD is described not so much as a belief system as it is a passive default position of individuals uninterested in exploring transcendence. MTD does not constitute an opposing ideology as such to Islam and so cannot dissipate, overwhelm or defeat its spiritual energy.

  12. WPM says

    Dec 21, 2018 at 4:39 pm

    I am sure in 1942 their were hardcore Nazis in the Germain government who like America jazz, American slang ,a lot of American culture ,they still wanted to take over America and enslave or kill all Americans. A person can like bagels and still be anti-Semitic .This simplistic thinking that liking something in a culture or objects a culture product means you respect or approve of the people and their way of life of that culture is simplistic and idiotic.

    • Indiana Tom says

      Dec 21, 2018 at 5:16 pm

      A lot of Germans thought declaring war on the USA was a totally idiotic thing to do.

      • WPM says

        Dec 22, 2018 at 5:40 am

        They went alone because they rally around Nazism, Like Moslems rally around Islam the group think mentality of both .If you remove Islam from the Moslems you make them non-Moslem you solve the problem, there is no soft Islam, like there is no soft Nazism. We do not have the tools or the time to convert people away from this death cult Islam .To make believe that if we be nice and show our way of life is good will turn these people peaceful is a suicide pack .

        • Indiana Tom says

          Dec 22, 2018 at 7:01 pm

          Some of the Germans were more patriotic than Naz, but still they fought.i.
          Some Americans are more patriotic than the Deep State, but still they fight.
          Some Confederates were patriotic to their states and were not quite pro slavery, but they still fight.
          Governments, patriotism, and causes can be very powerful and lead people down the garden path.

  13. thebigW says

    Dec 21, 2018 at 5:06 pm

    “Are there secular Muslims in the United States? Of course”

    with all due respect Robert Spencer, that’s bullcrap. There might be Muslims who’ve fooled you into thinking they’re “secular” but that’s sadly a different story.

    • gravenimage says

      Dec 21, 2018 at 5:19 pm

      There are Muslims who are essentially apostates, but who will not say they have left Islam.

      • thebigW says

        Dec 23, 2018 at 3:33 am

        how the hell do we tell difference between those closet postates and Muslims who are pretending to be that? and by the way, how is that the same thing as what Robert Spencer meant by “secular Muslims”

        • gravenimage says

          Dec 23, 2018 at 9:52 pm

          We can’t tell–that’s one of the big problems.

    • Indiana Tom says

      Dec 22, 2018 at 7:02 pm

      Yes and No.
      They will be secular, but they will never really oppose the radicals.

      • thebigW says

        Dec 24, 2018 at 1:45 pm

        What’s the difference between “They will be secular” and “They will pretend to be secular?”

        No difference, when it comes to Robert Spencer and Indiana Tom, I guess, and after they mash the two together what do we get? “Secular Muslims” like you guys know something nobody can know.

  14. Yanny says

    Dec 21, 2018 at 5:11 pm

    It looks that Muslim has won some American mind. Bad news for western civilization existence.

  15. Indiana Tom says

    Dec 21, 2018 at 5:13 pm

    I want what this guy is on. He is really tripping the light fantastic. Far out man!

  16. Jayell says

    Dec 21, 2018 at 5:33 pm

    It seems that Mr. Dreher has something in common with a certain King Canute – the reckless over-confidence of an almost insanely cock-eyed optimist who’s happy to arrogantly wallow in his own ignorance. And he’s ignoring the first rule of successful warfare – know your enemy. He clearly hasn’t bothered to find out.

    • Kepha says

      Dec 21, 2018 at 7:58 pm

      King Canute was not naïve. He got tired of the insincere flattery of his courtiers, and decided to embarrass them by showing that there were certain things that even a king couldn’t stop–tides, for instance.

      • Jayell says

        Dec 22, 2018 at 10:45 am

        OK, my apologies to King Canute!

      • gravenimage says

        Dec 23, 2018 at 9:54 pm

        True, Kepha.

  17. KWJ says

    Dec 21, 2018 at 6:03 pm

    Dreher sounds clueless and apparently doesn’t understand the Muslim organizations in the US…the Muslim Brotherhood, the ISNA, and the like whose goals are clear and they have the money and networks, and thus power, no less support from traitorous Americans. Does he not listen to ex-Muslims and how they keep warning that it is a threat, and no, it’s not going devolve into MTD any time soon.

    The more assimilated Muslims still do not call out the less assimilated ones, the teaching and preaching in mosques and Islamic groups, the aforementioned Muslim groups, etc. or how parents and insular communities make it hard. As far as Turks, Erdogan tells them not to assimilate and take over.

    In Islamic countries quite a few Muslims do things they’re not supposed to whether drink, go to prostitutes, sex before marriage, drugs, haram music or whatever. At the moment, alcohol is legal in Bosnia, Cypress, getting to be less so in Iraq, Syria, and others. But ominous forces are affecting Bosnia and such things. Indonesia is getting worse, Brunei didn’t have sharia law until 2014. Pakistan is worse. What is being called Islamic revivalism is similar to what Ayatollah Khomeini was calling it. One can’t let their guard down.

    Muslims think liberal Muslims are apostates and/or undermining Islam. Such Muslims are more aggressive as we see.

    The tweet that links to a Newsweek article saying the majority of Muslims agree with gay marriage is hogwash. To a devout Muslim homosexuality is a grave sin and forbidden under the sharia and fatwas, if it isn’t clear. Also transgenders and anything Allah did not make you. The Muslim Students Association all over universities is Muslim Brotherhood. I doubt the MB has embraced gay marriage – it would delegitimize them and their mentors and funders would be furious. Sounds like taqiyya and answering what you think people might want to hear.

    A poll I read in Britain asking Muslims if they think gay marriage should be legal received 100% no. In fact, they think they should be punished. Same people from same countries. Mind you, they are more bold in Europe and outright call for sharia law…America will be difficult.

    I see plenty of hijab wearing Muslims here and hijabs were non-existent all growing up. Do they support gay marriage? Linda Sarsour funnily enough posed in a photo with a gay guy (gay useful idiot) while she promotes sharia law and said Saudi Arabia does things right or something like that. There are gay people in KSA but if the police catch you they might beat you to death like they did two Pakistani cross dressers in a raid. Forget any public display.

    The CIA once said while they would listen in on jihadis they would hear them listening to hip hop or rap. That didn’t stop them from being on watch lists. There’s also the concept of maruna, though controversial for some Muslims, that is violating sharia law to fool the west. ISIS told jihadis to dress like us, shave your beard, wear perfume. (Cologne for men here.) But sure, Muslims watch American movies, listen to our music, want to be in rock/pop bands from Iran to Syria. But the young aren’t in charge and they are scared of other Muslims and may still vote for Muslims as we see has been done.

    • gravenimage says

      Dec 21, 2018 at 6:09 pm

      Good post.

    • Raja says

      Dec 21, 2018 at 9:03 pm

      KWJ,

      Thanks for the wealth of information.

  18. mortimer says

    Dec 21, 2018 at 6:36 pm

    Rod Dreher IS HAVING A PLEASANT DREAM without having PERSONALLY READ, LEARNED, STUDIED or EXPERIENCED any of the VICIOUS TOTALITARIAN TECHNIQUES of NORMATIVE ISLAM.

    ROD DREHER IS A POLLYANNA, because his knowledge of Islam is actually FANTASIZING.

    Rod Dreher is NOT an export about Islam without doing the VOLUMINOUS READING it requires.

    Rod Dreher is not even a BEGINNER in the study of Islam.

    Islam IS NOT HINDUISM or BUDDHISM, Mr. Dreher. ISLAM IS FASCISM plus THEISM as its justification.

    • Raja says

      Dec 21, 2018 at 8:41 pm

      Mortimer,

      A good comment to a good article.

  19. Flavius Claudius Iulianus says

    Dec 21, 2018 at 7:02 pm

    Rod Dreher is holding an uninformed opinion.

    “It is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone to believe anything upon insufficient evidence.”
    – Cliford’s Principle (William Kingdon Clifford; May 4, 1845 – March 3, 1879)

    I spent a great deal of time learning about this evil ideology, Rod did not. I don’t have a soap box, he does. Rod Dreher is a danger to himself and everyone around him.

    • Flavius Claudius Iulianus says

      Dec 21, 2018 at 7:07 pm

      This article, which I posted in a earlier comment, indicates that Rod’s uninformed opinion is contrary to the evidence:

      “Muslims in Europe Becoming Less Secular, More Radical”

      https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2018/12/20/secularism-muslims-europe-decline-80-percent-identify-religious/

  20. revereridesagain says

    Dec 21, 2018 at 8:37 pm

    Maybe someone would like to explain to Mr. Dreher why the 20-odd atheists in my email group are adamantly opposed to Islam while the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Pope are welcoming Muslims with open arms. Just sayin’.

    Of course the Muslims are becoming less secular and more radical. What’s in it for them to become secular? What’s earthly success and happiness pitted against the promises of Allah for eternal joy and glory in his whorehouse paradise?

    I know there’s a lot of drinking around the holidays, but Mr. Dreher really needs to put the cork back in the bottle and sober up.

    • Colin Broughton says

      Dec 22, 2018 at 4:16 am

      What’s often missed is that Muslim attacks on the West have a racial element as well as being religiously motivated.

  21. Raja says

    Dec 21, 2018 at 8:59 pm

    The “policy” statement of Islam to kill all unbelievers is hardly negated by any good deeds of one Muslim or most Muslims.

    The “Objective” to global caliphate or ” taking over the world” of Islam remains in the annals of Islam so why be optimistic about most who are not ardent followers of fascist cult of Islam? EVERY CONVERT to Islam will take it seriously and every repentant Muslim will take it seriously even if secular or from a secular country.
    Rod Dreher seems to be in fools paradise as people(non Muslims) who believe that Muslims are harmless or the non Muslims who try to prove that there is undue fear of Muslims are already history–killed and gone!!!

  22. Colin Broughtin says

    Dec 22, 2018 at 4:14 am

    According to Dr Peter Townsend in his book about Islam and slavery, Islamisation begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their religious privileges.

    When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse societies agree to Muslim demands for their religious privileges, some of the other components tend to creep in as well.

    Here’s how it works.

    As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:

    United States — Muslim 0.6%
    Australia — Muslim 1.5%
    Canada — Muslim 1.9%
    China — Muslim 1.8%
    Italy — Muslim 1.5%
    Norway — Muslim 1.8%

    At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. This is happening in:

    Denmark — Muslim 2%
    Germany — Muslim 3.7%
    United Kingdom — Muslim 2.7%
    Spain — Muslim 4%
    Thailand — Muslim 4.6%

    From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves — along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:

    France — Muslim 8%
    Philippines — Muslim 5%
    Sweden — Muslim 5%
    Switzerland — Muslim 4.3%
    The Netherlands — Muslim 5.5%
    Trinidad & Tobago — Muslim 5.8%

    At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world.

    When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris , we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam , with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections, in:

    Guyana — Muslim 10%
    India — Muslim 13.4%
    Israel — Muslim 16%
    Kenya — Muslim 10%
    Russia — Muslim 15%

    After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:

    Ethiopia — Muslim 32.8%

    At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:

    Bosnia — Muslim 40%
    Chad — Muslim 53.1%
    Lebanon — Muslim 59.7%

    From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in:

    Albania — Muslim 70%
    Malaysia — Muslim 60.4%
    Qatar — Muslim 77.5%
    Sudan — Muslim 70%

    After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:

    Bangladesh — Muslim 83%
    Egypt — Muslim 90%
    Gaza — Muslim 98.7%
    Indonesia — Muslim 86.1%
    Iran — Muslim 98%
    Iraq — Muslim 97%
    Jordan — Muslim 92%
    Morocco — Muslim 98.7%
    Pakistan — Muslim 97%
    Palestine — Muslim 99%
    Syria — Muslim 90%
    Tajikistan — Muslim 90%
    Turkey — Muslim 99.8%
    United Arab Emirates — Muslim 96%

    100% will usher in the peace of ‘Dar-es-Salaam’ — the Islamic House of Peace. Here there’s supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrases are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in:

    Afghanistan — Muslim 100%
    Saudi Arabia — Muslim 100%
    Somalia — Muslim 100%
    Yemen — Muslim 100%

    Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of re

    • Pat Mott says

      Dec 22, 2018 at 7:41 am

      Some of the percentages seem wrong, surely in Britain the figure is far higher now? Possible because we don’t know who many of the illegals are? In any case, the number feels much higher!

      • Colin B says

        Dec 22, 2018 at 4:03 pm

        Yes, the percentages are higher now. The book by Dr Peter Hammond (Not Townsend) ‘Slavery, Terrorism and Islam’ was published back in 2010.

        Peter Townsend has also written some interesting books on Islam, as it happens.

    • 762x51FMJ says

      Dec 22, 2018 at 3:43 pm

      A 490 million dollar Nasa survey recently determined that the odds of dying in a terror attack is directly proportional to how close you are to a Muslim.

    • Indiana Tom says

      Dec 22, 2018 at 7:05 pm

      More or less true. I have thought the same thing.

  23. Colin B says

    Dec 22, 2018 at 4:40 am

    The attitude of Muslims develops according as they are in a proportion of the population.

    This is how it works, according to Dr. Peter Hammond (2010)

    When the Muslim population remains under 2% in a country, they will be seen primarily as a peace-loving minority and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the current situation in:

    United States — Muslim 0.6%

    As the Muslim population reaches 2% to 5%, they begin to recruit from ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, within prisons and street gangs.

    “From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population,” Dr. Hammond notes. “For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food” and increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature such food on their shelves — along with threats for failure to comply.

    Soon they begin to apply pressure to allow Sharia law within their own communities (sometimes ghettos).

    “When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions,” Dr. Hammond notes. “In Paris, we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam, with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam’’.

    The violence increases when the Muslim population reaches 20%. “After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues,”

    “At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare,” such as in Bosnia.

    From 60%, persecution of non-believing “infidels” rises significantly, including sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia law as a weapon, and Jizya, a tax placed on infidels.

    After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out “infidels,” and move toward a 100% Muslim society, which has been experienced to some degree in Syria — Muslim 90%

    A 100% Muslim society will theoretically usher in their version of peace — the peace of ‘Dar-es-Salaam’ — the Islamic House of Peace. “Here there’s supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrassas are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word,” such as in:

    Afghanistan — Muslim 100%

    Saudi Arabia — Muslim 100%

    Somalia — Muslim 100%

    Yemen — Muslim 100%

    Dr. Hammond observes this Islamic ideal is seldom realized. “Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.”

  24. Michael Copeland says

    Dec 22, 2018 at 5:39 am

    Newsflash for Rod Dreher:

    “Destroying the Western Civilisation from within” is the stated objective of the Muslim Brotherhood.

    PS. Repeat, “Muslim”, as in Islam.

  25. Pat Mott says

    Dec 22, 2018 at 6:03 am

    Surely the ‘fun’ loving’ Muslim thinks that he can wipe out his sins by killing infidels? rather as naughty Catholics can be gain absolution by going to confession!
    Anyway the ‘modern easy going’ ones will be dealt with first!

    • mortimer says

      Dec 22, 2018 at 7:29 am

      Pat, that is an comparison revealing your facile ignorance and undisciplined mind. The hysteria and mania of Islam is lost on someone who has not experienced it. Repentance is never easy or cheap. Your gratuitous insults are inconsiderate and do not help our cause.

      • Pat Mott says

        Dec 22, 2018 at 8:20 am

        Sorry Mortimer, I did not put my point properly. Many of their recruits come from prison, such as the Westminster bridge killer, he wasn’t brought up as a Muslim & became a criminal. I expect he was encouraged to carry out his crime with promises of redemption if he killed infidels for Allah, he could dignify his violence & crimes this way! This must apply to many Muslim terrorists.

  26. mortimer says

    Dec 22, 2018 at 7:19 am

    Rod Dreher with breathtaking and PREPOSTEROUS CONCEIT considers himself qualified to speak on Islam, even though he has not READ let alone STUDIED the PRIMARY SOURCE TEXTS, MANUALS OF ISLAMIC LAW or ISLAMIC HISTORY. His ignorance of Islam is thus ALMOST TOTAL.

    The ARMENIAN-ASSYRIAN-PONTIC GENOCIDES were NOT perpetrated by TURKISH MENTAL PATIENTS or HYPER-FANATICAL MUSLIMS, but by ORDINARY TURKISH Muslims some of whom were LACKADAISICAL or even HIGHLY SECULAR !!!

    ORDINARY MUSLIMS COMMIT ATROCITIES BECAUSE, oh Mr. Dreher … wait for it …

    IT’S THE IDEOLOGY, STUPID!

  27. Watchingtheweasels says

    Dec 22, 2018 at 8:06 am

    The reason that Dreher is wrong on this issue is, to quote Han Solo, is “… Because Droids don’t rip people’s arms out of their sockets when they lose. Wookies have been known to do that.”. Oh, and I offer my sincerest apologies to Wookies everywhere for comparing them to Muslims.

  28. Sam says

    Dec 22, 2018 at 9:58 am

    I started making a comment but it was really a waste of time to indicate how clueless people are about Islam with all the evidence of this evil cult in front of their noses.

  29. James says

    Dec 22, 2018 at 10:36 am

    It does seem to me that communism was the other recent totalitarian movement that people thought was immutable and eternal and could not be stopped, a juggernaut that would engulf the world as in Orwell’s famous novel. But actually it was a God that failed. But it was atheistic and materialistic, which meant that if it failed to produce prosperity it was discredited. A true religion can survive a failure to deliver material goods, because it offers supernatural wealth. And communism did not entirely fail, it has arisen in the form of post-modernism and cultural Marxism. The real religions have been around for thousands of years. And well, Islam has never turned into therapeutic deism, it seems to be violent and destructive in its development even today. As Bill Warner says, all the other major religions have a golden rule. This rule is a foundation stone of most therapies that aim to adjust people to society and society to its members. Islam is the only one that teachs its adherents to treat infidels harshly until they convert. Certainly the founders of Christianity and many other religions did not command thousands of beheadings, rapes, child marriages, interbreeding, cousin marriages, honor killing, FGM, and many other heinous practices. And indeed its very cruelty seems to enhance the appeal of this strange worldview. The fascination of violence that is found in it is also found in totalitarian personalities. I can imagine Christianity reduced to a moralistic deistic therapy, but I can also see that a revival of Chrsitian religious fervor is possible. I cannot see Islam become diluted and watered down as mere therapy. Its success is founded on its ability to frighten unbelievers. It was a total failure until the founder shifted from spiritual appeals to violent Jihad. Then it became a juggernaut and still is today. But it can be resisted and fought against.

  30. patriotliz says

    Dec 22, 2018 at 1:07 pm

    Islam will never “morph” or evolve into a “religion” that is compatible w/ Western Civilization. Muslim fundamentalists can never be delegitimized by kinder and gentler heretical Muslims. The only solutions is to ban Muslims migrating to America and stop appeasing Muslim practices that are antithetical to our laws and human rights. All those non-practicing Muslims, heretics, dissidents or pollyannish Reformers should become apostates and renounce Islam in toto. Don’t care if they become atheists or join some other civilized religion that observes the “golden rule” but they need to stop identifying themselves as Muslim. As for the secularized Muslims who become terrorists…they are the equivalent of a “born again” Christian but w/o the humanity of Christianity. They are “born again” into a sadistic cult of Satanism–deriving “divine” pleasure from killing infidels.

  31. Evangeline says

    Dec 22, 2018 at 4:42 pm

    There is nothing in history I have ever seen that indicates we can all live peacefully. There is voluminous historical evidence that we cannot.
    This is like riding a motorcycle. Fine if all goes well. But given the ample historical evidence, odds are greater it will not go well. After all, how well is it going in Europe? In France? In Germany? In Sweden?
    It’s not going well, that’s how.

    There are many gullible people, people who simply can’t accept that there is any group with which we cannot hold hands and make peace. To them, political correctness is a religion and they must be faithful. The eternal Pollyanna.
    These gullible people are going to get us killed.

    • vlparker says

      Dec 22, 2018 at 6:34 pm

      But progressives can change hearts and minds, doncha know?

  32. vlparker says

    Dec 22, 2018 at 6:33 pm

    Nostradamus alive and well and on the job. Heartwarming.

  33. UNCLE VLADDI says

    Dec 22, 2018 at 8:20 pm

    Re: “The American Conservative…”?!

    Oh! I get it now! It’s a cute, ironic and sly misnomer, like “neo-Conservative” which actually means the exact opposite of what it initially seems to mean!

    Hah! Funny stuff!

  34. 762x51FMJ says

    Dec 23, 2018 at 7:20 am

    The blood in the chalice the disciples drank was the sacrament of life. .

    The blood in the chalice of mohammed was from his tortured victims of sacrifice.

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