“Men have authority over women because Allah has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because Allah has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them.” — Qur’an 4:34
There is no ‘lightly” after “beat them” in the Arabic.
Muhammad “struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?” — Aisha (Sahih Muslim 2127)
“It’s OK for husbands, fathers and brothers to beat disobedient women, says Abbas` advisor,” by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik, Palestinian Media Watch, December 30, 2018:
Contradictory messages are an art in the Palestinian Authority. A striking example was when right in the middle of a PA campaign to stop domestic violence against Palestinian women, Abbas’ advisor and top PA religious figure explained on TV exactly when, how and why husbands, fathers and brothers are allowed to beat women!
The Palestinian campaign to stop violence against women ran during the international “16 Days of Activism against Gender-Based Violence” campaign calling to end violence against women and girls. The campaigns began on Nov. 25 on the International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women, and ended on Dec. 10, Human Rights Day.
While this campaign was running and teaching that it is never acceptable to hit women, Abbas’ advisor Mahmoud Al-Habbash explained on official PA TV that there are situations in which men are allowed to beat women. In fact, it is even good for the women:
“As long as Allah permitted a certain type of beating, it is for the good. It is good for society and good for the woman and the man.”
When is it permitted? Not very often explained Al-Habbash; only when women are “disobedient”:
“The one and only situation, which is very limited and very rare, in which a man is permitted to beat in a way that doesn’t harm, doesn’t injure, avoids the face, and doesn’t cause strong pain – is the situation of disobedience. Only a situation of the woman’s disobedience. The disobedient woman, the woman who is out of line, the woman who destroys the bonds of marriage, and the bonds of home and family. Aside from this, any type of beating, injuring, and cursing of the woman constitutes a forbidden act.”
While Al-Habbash defends the practice, saying it is “rare,” the categories of women who may be beaten that he himself describes are so general that he opens the door for ongoing abuse: “The disobedient woman, the woman who is out of line, the woman who destroys the bonds of marriage, and the bonds of home and family.”
Al-Habbash quotes the Quran that he must not beat her immediately but must try two earlier disciplinary measures: First “admonish them, (next), refuse to share their beds,” (i.e., the husbands) and only then if the woman is still disobedient are the men permitted to beat them….
Michael Copeland says
According to the Koran no disobedience is, in fact, needed for a man to have the right to beat the woman.
It says that you men may beat “those from whom you fear disobedience”.
The man need only FEAR disobedience by the woman.
The fear is entirely subjective in the mind of the man, and is not restricted by any need to be reasonably held.
jule says
In general, Arabs have an old tribal warlord type culture that is VERY machismo. They are taught to be so easily offended by things and to Demand RESPECT. So Touchy. I worked with a Doctor, in USA, once who had been raised with that culture. We were over a patient in trouble and I was doing one procedure, the Nurse another, and the Doctor directing. The Nurse called the Doctor by his last name but did not say DR. first…just the last name. He stood up to his full height and got all stiff and angrily said .. ‘——-‘ is my LAST name. My Name is 1) Mohammed 2) Abdullah 3) blah blah 4) blah blah 5) blah blah, 6) blah blah, 7) bin blah bla 8) last name. The Nurse was stunned. I was annoyed because I knew that doctor from the Cardiac lab so I just looked at him sideways and said….THE PATIENT please. He calmed, we went on…later the nurse said to me..he’s so touchy..is he always like that? It’s the Widespread CULTURE. They are taught they have to be like that for their ‘honor’ as MEN. Its crazy to me but they take it Serious. That culture, like any Machismo thing does not belong in USA. Some women still romanticise it from past movies ect but really, we won’t take it anymore.
abad says
In that case – maybe, just maybe – we should not allow Moslem doctors in the USA. They can be doctors in their Moslem-majority nations.
And no, I would NEVER go to a Moslem doctor. They are not to be trusted.
gravenimage says
That this Muslim did this *while* the patient was being worked on was the worst of all.
Rufolino says
His self-conceit more important than the sick patient. Unbelievable narcissism.
Makes you feel Moslem physicians & surgeons could be risky.
Would this situation be possible with a Christian doctor ?
(There exist very conceited Western doctors, especially in Italy, as I have found.)
Probably less likely !
Jayell says
“….old tribal warlord type culture…..” That’s a nice way of putting it. Wouldn’t ‘criminal gangland godfather thug culture’ be more accurate in the modern English idiom? That’s certainly the label that best fits the Hero of Islam, who only got away with his ‘Prophet’ routine because there wasn’t a State Police force to pick him up. On second thoughts that’s being a bit optimistic, because he’d probably have had a ‘State Police Force’ of the time working FOR him. By the way, I notice the strange sensitivity of the muslim doctor to having his title omitted in Jule’s story. Two things strike me -1. I’m not sure about the USA, but here in the UK ‘Doctor’ is usually only a courtesy title since most of them haven’t actually earned ‘doctorates’;
and – 2. It’s curious how often persons of an islamic persuasion seem to convenently forget the proper titles of others, for example, our august islamic Mayor of London rarely seems to remember the ‘President’ bit of ‘President Trump’.
Michael Copeland says
All helpful descriptions of the “culture” are welcome.
See “The Mindset Need”
https://gatesofvienna.net/2014/10/the-mindset-need/
mortimer says
Thanks for your testimony. It’s an example of the HONOR culture and of the AL WALAA WAL BARAA culture. He wanted to emphasize ISLAMIC SUPREMACISM over the dirty kufaar.
Apparently, all of you were ‘privileged’ to be in his exalted company and if the PATIENT (a dirty kafir) were to die while he imposed his HONOR … well, inshallah, just another dirty kafir.
Indiana Tom says
Sharia judge: It’s OK for husbands, fathers and brothers to beat disobedient women.It says that you men may beat “those from whom you fear disobedience”.
The man need only FEAR disobedience by the woman.
The fear is entirely subjective in the mind of the man, and is not restricted by any need to be reasonably held.
Beat me to it. Pun?
https://illinoisfamily.org/islam-sharia/anni-cyrus-shares-experience-sharia-law-iran/
J D S says
“Send them to beds apart….” like the women love their bed with the men……To be USED by men is very troubling…and that’s exactly what’s happening…muslim women are being USED by Muslim men…Muhammad, (IF HE EVER ACTUALLY EXISTED) stole from the Holy Word and bent the Words to suit his damaged mind to put women in such a much lower class than men is something that beyond reasoning.
In is lam women are just a sex and work tool…..kinda like a puppy mill..Just shut up bare kids and keep outs the way.
Jedothek says
I offer a comment that probably occurred to Robert but which he did not include. When Al-Habbash says
“The one and only situation, which is very limited and very rare, in which a man is permitted to beat in a way that doesn’t harm … is the situation of disobedience”
– he is contradicted by Qur’an 4:34, which says that a FEAR of disobedience is sufficient; there need not be actual disobedience.
somehistory says
Male moslims learn early just what is allowed in the treatment of the females of the household.
True story, there is no link; Mother attempting to get tiny son on a school bus. He doesn’t want to and begins kicking and hitting her. He was only three years old, but she was *begging* him not to hit her or kick her. She was crying and begging as though speaking to a grown man, but he did not stop until he could no longer reach her.
This is just one example of how early…and how well…the male child raised in a moslim household, learns how he is to treat females…including the woman who is his mother and takes care of him.
The average, non moslim mother would have gotten stern and disciplined the child rather than crying and begging him not to hit and kick her. But moslim boys are raised to think of all females as targets for abuse…including their own mothers…with total disrespect and any treatment is allowed because their filthy, evil book from satan tells them to “beat” their wives, and allows them to rape and kill their daughters; to kill their sisters, mothers and grandmothers. No female is exempt from this foul treatment.
Scarves on the head and a downward cast eye does not protect them from abuse.
gravenimage says
I witnessed something similar on a bus–a Hijabbed Muslim mother whose son–about four–was kicking his younger sister’s stroller and making her cry. The mother said, “no, no” very quietly, but made *no* attempt to move the kid or the stroller or anything else. Most chilling was that in between her ineffective “nos” she was *smiling*. Talk about sending mixed messages! Of course, the kid kept doing it.
I thought, if he is like this as a pre-schooler, how much worse will he be when he gets older?
By the way, I would have intervened if it looked as though he was going to seriously hurt the toddler–although I know that any action on my part would probably be *anything* but well received.
SB says
Tiny balls yield cowardly males.
Rufolino says
In Morocco recently I saw a man hitting a woman publicly, in the street. She couldn’t escape, he held her arm, she fell to the ground.
No passers-by were interested.
One of the most shocking things I’ve ever happened to see, and I can still see it.
mortimer says
No, SB. It’s their IDEOLOGY. It’s a form of hypnosis.
Wellington says
Even the thought of hitting my wife is utterly loathsome to me. Shame, deep shame, for Islam having this “provision” in its theological structure. It serves as one of many reasons why I have come to despise Islam.
gravenimage says
That’s because you are a civilized man, Wellington.
gravenimage says
And Happy New Year to you!
justine says
there is NOTHING theological about islam, period; it is ALL a huge scam in favor of the man
Wellington says
If only this were the case, justine. Islam is steeped in theology, though very much of the wrong kind. Just look at all the Islamic theological schools for confirmation here, for instance the four main Sunni schools of theology—Hanafi, Hanbali, Shafi and Maliki.
Oh, I agree Islam is a “huge scam,” but this in and of itself does not negate the fact that it has theological blueprints all over its warped creed. Remember, no place is it written that a religion can’t be rotten. Best to argue why Islam is a rotten religion rather than the alternative of arguing that it is not a religion at all.
Geoffrey Britain says
Sorry but any ‘religion’ that commands and justifies murder, rape, slavery, theft, lying and abuse is NOT a religion.
Islam is a violently expansionist, totalitarian ideology that has wrapped itself within a FACADE of religious pretense.
Wellington says
Well, Geoffrey, you are at odds with Robert Spencer himself who thinks Islam is a religion. You’re also at odds with the federal judiciary here in America which considers Islam a religion (ditto for all state judiciaries). As a lawyer myself, I would also assert that for First Amendment purposes Islam is most definitely a religion. And I would ask you where is it written that “a violently expansionist, totalitarian ideology that has wrapped itself within a FACADE of religious pretense” is, ipso facto, not a religion?
Just because a religion sucks (and Islam really, really sucks; here I don’t think we will have any disagreement), doesn’t mean it’s not a religion. BTW, whom do you invoke to prove your contention that Islam is not a religion? Name your sources if you will.
gravenimage says
Islam is a religion–it is just an evil one, like sacrificing children to Baal or Aztecs engaging in human sacrifice.
Dajango says
Anyone can make up a ‘religion’. It does not make it of God. I once mocked mooselams with the Church of the Holy Utensil. The Spork (all praise the Spork) is the one true religion. The spoon is evil, and tempting, and leads men to their damnation.
See? All I need now is a 501(whatever is the religious tax exemption) and I’m certain fools will follow the Spork. It does not make it righteous, or holy, or even within logical boundaries.
Rufolino says
Interesting that Nazism never claimed to be a religion, though it sometimes behaved like one, and often affected people like one.
mortimer says
Response to Justine: Islam is like the duck-billed platypus which is a mammal with bird DNA.
The Islamic movement began as a bunch of hoodlums who joined up with Mohammed. Mohammed was strictly speaking a CULT LEADER like the infamous Jim Jones. His ‘revelations’ gave Mohammed everything he wanted, especially dominance over others.
Islam’s book of law is Sharia (there are several manuals). Sharia regulates both RELIGION and THE STATE, as well as SLAVERY and non-Muslims.
Islam is the diabolical nightmare of a monumental CONTROL FREAK who used the Supreme Being to gain ultimate control over others.
gravenimage says
Sharia judge: It’s OK for husbands, fathers and brothers to beat disobedient women
……………………………..
And this, as noted, makes it clear that the PA campaign to stop domestic violence is a sham.
More:
“As long as Allah permitted a certain type of beating, it is for the good. It is good for society and good for the woman and the man.”
……………………………..
Anything in the Qur’an and Hadith or practiced by the “Prophet” can *never* really be opposed by pious Muslims.
More:
When is it permitted? Not very often explained Al-Habbash; only when women are “disobedient”:
“The one and only situation, which is very limited and very rare, in which a man is permitted to beat in a way that doesn’t harm, doesn’t injure, avoids the face, and doesn’t cause strong pain – is the situation of disobedience. Only a situation of the woman’s disobedience. The disobedient woman, the woman who is out of line, the woman who destroys the bonds of marriage, and the bonds of home and family. Aside from this, any type of beating, injuring, and cursing of the woman constitutes a forbidden act.”
……………………………..
How is this rare? There are minor disagreements in even the most loving relationships–which does not describe many Muslim relationships to begin with–so virtually *anything* can constitute “disobedience”.
This is completely subjective. What constitutes “disobedience”? A difference of opinion on what to cook for dinner? Wanting to protect a daughter from child marriage? Wanting to leave an abusive marriage?
And then, of course, the Qur’an notes that even the *fear* of disobedience is enough to warrant a beating–so even the most obedient women can be victimized.
And extending this to fathers and brothers means that a woman can even be beaten when male relatives disagree on which of them she should be showing obedience to.
And–needless to say–there are no such penalties for men.
Far from being rare, women being subject to beatings would seem to be just about universal.
From reports, over half of women in the “Palestinian Territories” are subjected to violence–and this is likely severely under-reported.
“Palestinian domestic abuse victims ‘have nowhere to turn'”
Silence is often the only option for Palestinian women subject to domestic violence, Palestinian NGO workers say.
https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/palestinian-domestic-abuse-victims-turn-181110101842871.html
mortimer says
Thank, GI. It’s appalling and too few women speak out. IF THEY DON’T SPEAK OUT, WE WILL ALL BE SUBJUGATED.
gravenimage says
True, Mortimer. We *all* need to speak out against this barbarism.
I may not be posting for the next few days, so I wanted to wish you a very Happy New Year!
Buzz says
This is why Muslims should not be allowed in non-Muslim countries.
mortimer says
Such slanderous comments against women. Once again the Koran is used to PROVE ITSELF without outside references. This is circular reasoning and it is invalid.
K.4.34 “those from whom you FEAR disobedience” is ENTIRELY SUBJECTIVE since the test is the PARANOIA of the man. Even if there is NO OBEDIENCE visible … he has permission to beat his wife FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON !!! No one is allowed to ask a Muslim why he beat his wife.
Logic&Reason says
An example Islam’s perfectly okay “educational beating”? The poor kid likely got another dose at home.
Submission, indeed. Or else….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5D5X1ifDlo
mortimer says
And the pedophilia in those madrassahs as well. Sadism is normative Islam based on the violent example of the founder.
tgusa says
“It’s OK for husbands, fathers and brothers to beat disobedient women,”
Attention all disobedient regressive western female supporters of islam, please report to beating station number one immediately!
Geoffrey Britain says
Wellington on Dec 30, 2018 at 8:38 pm,
So Robert Spenser and the American state and federal judiciary here in America disagrees. So what? That’s a logical fallacy known as “an appeal to authority” and an appeal to consensus, i.e. if all the experts agree it MUST be true. All the ‘experts’ once held that the earth was flat. All the medical experts once held that bleeding a sick patient was necessary, etc, etc. No doubt you get the point.
Islam is not a religion because its tenets and actions compel worship of an UNHOLY entity. To BE a religion, its adherents have to be worshiping the divine and it is the tenets of a ‘faith’ that determine the character of worship.
If the creator of this universe is a monster like “Allah”, it isn’t worthy of worship. To be worthy of worship, of veneration and adoration, the creator must transcend imperfection and set an example of perfect morality.
Jesus did so and reportedly, after he reached enlightenment, so did the Buddha. Though the Buddha did not claim divinity, just perfect enlightenment. It is enlightenment to which the Buddha points as the goal. Arguably, the Buddha’s enlightenment is the state of grace to which Christianity aspires while we remain within this “mortal coil”.
And there is a logically consistent, rational working guide for Mr Spenser and our State and Federal judiciary as to when a faith qualifies as a religion or as a cult.
BTW, there’s a reason why we have two different words, ‘religion’ and ‘cult’. There’s a great lack of clarity on this issue with cults being undifferentiated from authentic religions. To be authentic, a religion must worship an entity worthy of that worship.
So, Satan ‘worship’ qualifies as a ‘cult’ not a religion because it purports to worship an unholy and thus NOT divine entity.
Logic&Reason says
That’s why the West’s secular laws that protect against “religious discrimination” have to be more defined as to what constitutes a peaceful religion.
An hour of research will show any open-minded truth-seeker that Islam was founded on the claims of Muhammad’s “religious” revelations in Mecca. But he quickly tossed his Mr. Nice Guy approach aside when he made the move to Medina.
“Allah” morphed from a peaceful entity into a supremacist thug, with Muhammad and his followers as his henchmen.
Any “respect” Islam maintains as a “religion” is via taqiyya, kitman, et al which keep Western fools ignorant. But, even within its own ranks, Islam protects itself mostly through fear of the promise of murderous mayhem.
A perfect example of a wolf in sheep’s clothing that needs to drastically change its tune before it continues to be respected and protected under secular law. Respect that is DEMANDED by supremacists over people they deem INFIDELS isn’t worth protecting.
Geoffrey Britain says
“A perfect example of a wolf in sheep’s clothing that needs to drastically change its tune before it continues to be respected and protected under secular law.”
Tragically, Islam cannot be reformed in any meaningful way. This is due to the very most basic claim that Muhammad repeatedly made; that he is NOT the Qur’an’s author. That Allah miraculously enabled an illiterate Muhammad to take dictation and write down the dictated Qur’an. That Muhammad took dictation from the archangel Gabriel, who in repeated visits, perfectly transmitted to Muhammad for transcription Allah’s direct testimony.
That claim has tremendous theological implications. Muhammad’s claim that Gabriel made sure that he got it exactly right (angels are incapable of mistakes) ensures that not one comma can be changed. As fallible mankind cannot… is literally incapable of… ‘correcting’ infallible Allah.
Thus to ‘reform’ Islam requires that Muhammad be declared to have either been deluded (an angel repeatedly visited him…) or to be a liar. In either case, Islam’s theological infrastructure collapses as its most fundamental basis is destroyed…
Logic&Reason says
Yes, I’m aware of the “perfection” of both the Qur’an and Muhammad.
Which is why secular law should remove it from the list of peaceful religions…and call it out for what it is: a supremacist, barbaric, totalitarian ideology POSING as an oppressed, peaceful religion which is distorted by fanatics. I also know that it’s not that simple. Guaranteed outrage and carnage would ensue….but that’s there anyway with the drawing of a Muhammad cartoon.
It’s either that or we slowly submit and eventually succumb to its thuggish supremacy.
D3F1ANT says
SO wait…we didn’t know this already!?
Giacomo Latta says
Islam is all about the koran. The koran is a self-serving document that is all about Muhammad. Muhammad is all about sexual depravity and finding a means of getting half-wits to join him in his ”crusade” to acquire as much land and riches as he possibly can.
SB says
That boy being beat by a grown man? That is so Islam.
SB says
“His sensitivity is tougher then that of a woman’s’ ” If that’s not an oxymoron, then what is?