Says Johnnie Moore: “All we want is for what it was like when the Prophet Muhammad himself was alive, which was a very pluralistic region. There were Christians and Jews, there were synagogues and there were churches.”
Yes, but what happened to them?
According to Islamic tradition, there were three Jewish tribes in Medina when Muhammad moved there: the Banu Qurayzah, Banu Qaynuqa and Banu Nadir. Muhammad exiled the Banu Qaynuqa and Banu Nadir, massacred the Banu Qurayza after they (understandably) made a pact with his enemies during the pagan Meccans’ siege of Medina, and then massacred the exiles at the Khaybar oasis, giving Muslims even today a bloodthirsty war chant: “Khaybar, Khaybar, O Jews, the army of Muhammad will return.”
A hadith depicts Muhammad saying: “I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.” (Sahih Muslim 19.4366)
This is why the Saudis allow no non-Muslim religious observance in their domains.
If Johnnie Moore thinks Muhammad offers a pluralistic model for Muslim countries to emulate today, he has been reading too much deceptive Islamic apologetics, and is whistling in the dark.
“Evangelicals Seek Detente With Mideast Muslim Leaders As Critics Doubt Motives,” by Jerome Socolovsky, NPR, January 2, 2019 (thanks to Magdi):
In recent months, evangelical Christian leaders have been traveling to the Middle East to meet with rulers of Islamic countries and with Muslim clergy.
The participants say the meetings — especially one they had in November with Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman — are unprecedented, and aimed at promoting religious freedom in the region.
Johnnie Moore, a public relations consultant and a former vice president of Liberty University, has been on many of the trips. He says they are not about easing the way for Christian missionaries, as some critics allege.
“All we want is for what it was like when the Prophet Muhammad himself was alive, which was a very pluralistic region,” he says. “There were Christians and Jews, there were synagogues and there were churches.”
The evangelicals have also had audiences with Sheikh Mohamed bin Zayed al Nahyan of the United Arab Emirates, President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi of Egypt and King Abdullah of Jordan….
Sam says
Idiot!
mortimer says
There were two Mohammeds, not one.
The first Mohammed was a powerless preacher of a tolerant religion in Mecca. After 13 years, Mohammed had gained possibly 150 followers.
Then everything changed. Mohammed moved to Medina, founded a state, became the head of state, a politician, a warlord, a highway bandit, a censorship and control freak. He performed and led a violent act every six weeks in Medina. By the time that Mohammed died, all Arabians were Muslims. All his enemies had fled.
Even when he was in Mecca, Mohammed was not ‘pluralistic’. He was endlessly intolerant of the Meccans and they wearied of that, finally asking him to leave town because he was obnoxious.
mortimer says
Mohammed’s last command was to turn Jews and Christians out of Arabia. Tolerant? Or totally INTOLERANT?
Bukhari #005.059.716 Military Expeditions led by the Prophet (pbuh) (Al-Maghaazi)
Bukhari :: Book 5 :: Volume 59 :: Hadith 716
Narrated Ibn Abbas: Thursday! And how great that Thursday was! The ailment of Allah’s Apostle became worse (on Thursday) and he said, fetch me something so that I may write to you something after which you will never go astray.” The people (present there) differed in this matter, and it was not right to differ before a prophet. Some said, “What is wrong with him ? (Do you think ) he is delirious (seriously ill)? Ask him ( to understand his state ).” So they went to the Prophet and asked him again. The Prophet said, “Leave me, for my present state is better than what you call me for.” Then he ordered them to do three things. He said, “Turn the pagans out of the ‘Arabian Peninsula; respect and give gifts to the foreign delegations as you have seen me dealing with them.” (Said bin Jubair, the sub-narrator said that Ibn Abbas kept quiet as regards the third order, or he said, “I forgot it.”)
Michael Copeland says
“Islam has a proud tradition of tolerance.”
Barack Obama
Chanah See says
I admit that I may not want to know the answer to this, but is there some pressing reason why history is ignored in theological studies? How can it be?
mortimer says
CS, Pollyannish optimism and the search for easy, simplistic, UNRESEARCHED CONCLUSIONS is the glaringly obvious answer to your question.
At the university level, there is NO EXCUSE FOR NOT READING THE PRIMARY SOURCE TEXTS BEFORE PONTIFICATING.
AUTOMATIC FAIL GRADE. ZERO RESEARCH.
Mark Goldberg says
Just wait. The Saudi’s will have him importing clerics to his area of the US to help them understand how to set up a pluralistic religious society
James Foard says
What could be worse? Oh I don’t know, maybe, a Jew meeting with the leaders of the American Nazi Party and telling them, “We want what it was like when Hitler was alive, a pluralistic Third Reich”. Or a black man meeting with the leaders of the KKK saying, “We want what it was like during Jim Crow, a more pluralistic KKK”?
You just can’t make this type of idiocy up.
gravenimage says
+1
Bob Kost says
Everyone voting Democrat in this country is ensuring that Islam will continue to flourish and more of their clerics and mosques will be built
mgoldberg says
That actually occurred in 1933 in Berlin. The Jewish community did meet with the ‘national socialists’, and were snuckered into believing that they were being good germans who would be welcomed with their german
heritage into the new germany.
Nautikos says
Johnnie Moore is an ignorant fool! Our problem is that our generation is saddled with hundreds of millions of such fools…
katherine says
Imagine that – he wants the world to be under the same condition as when Arabia was undergoing the Islamic takeover. The Muslims will agree with him wholeheartedly but he will be blissfully unaware of the reason.
KWJ says
+1
Carol the 1st says
I assume this is a certain Johnnie Moore Jr.
Wikipedia reads:
Rev. Johnnie Moore is an author[1] and the Founder and CEO of The Kairos Company, a public relations and communications consulting firm.[2] He has served as an adviser to multiple presidential candidates. He was previously Chief of Staff and Vice President of Faith Content for Mark Burnett’s United Artists Media Group.[3]
Subheading “2016 Presidential Elections” reads:
“Moore was Dr. Ben Carson’s “special faith advisor,”[6] and Moore currently serves on the evangelical advisory board of Donald Trump.[7] He stated he would have similarly served as an advisory to Sec. Hillary Clinton had he been asked.
Link 7 leads to a 2011 article. The comments below it aren’t too flattering.
Islamaphone says
“All we want is for what it was like when the Prophet Muhammad himself was alive, which was a very pluralistic region,” he says. “There were Christians and Jews, there were synagogues and there were churches.”
Perhaps Johnny was saying ‘when Muhammad was alive’ he meant before he became possessed by Allah?
Who am I kidding?
Carol the 1st says
Johnny seems strangely unaware that a bowling ball was heading for the pins.
somehistory says
A “PR” guy. PR is all about propaganda. The goal is to make whatever group, company, org, etc. look good to the public…or as PR courses now say, “publics.” He is not going to be able to make Christians “look good” to moslims. Their hatred is too ingrained, too embedded in the perverted minds of moslims.
This guy is a fool if he actually believes this will produce any good results. He should ask for ***before*** old mo was even hatched from that snake’s egg and began to lie and slither his way into a position of power over others.
Once the raper of children, mass murderer, lying filthy creature began, it was no longer safe for Christians and Jews…or anyone else.
mortimer says
Johnnie Moore’s fantasy of an original PLURALISTIC ISLAM is not supported by the original, PRIMARY source texts of Islam. Moore is certain NOT TO HAVE READ the PRIMARY SOURCES, and yet he SPONTANEOUSLY presents himself as an AUTHORITY on Mohammed … without doing the REQUIRED SOURCE READINGS. These readings are VOLUMINOUS.
J. Moore has NOT done his homework on Islam … at all. AUTOMATIC FAIL GRADE.
Wellington says
Three very fine and accurate posts by you, mortimer, on this thread. As usual, your detailed knowledge of Islam reveals it for the totalitarian, violent and intolerant ideology which it most surely is and which it has been from Mohammed onward.
gravenimage says
Agreed. Good posts, Mortimer.
mortimer says
According to Mohammed, ORIGINAL Islam is JIHAD. Here are the literal words of MOHAMMED himself:
Narrated Abdullah ibn Umar:
I heard the Apostle of Allah say: When you enter into the inah transaction (become businessmen), hold the tails of oxen (become cattlemen), are pleased with agriculture (become farmers), and give up conducting jihad, Allah will make disgrace prevail over you, and will not withdraw it until you return to your original religion. – Sunan Abu Dawud Book 23, Number 3455
Conducting jihad is thus the ‘original religion’ of Mohammed. Mohammed is the only authority on Islam.
Lydia Church says
More beams being laid in the house for the one world religion under antichrist.
Wellington says
Uninformed Christians about Islam, like Johnnie Moore, do Christianity no good service. Not only are “muscular Christians” imperative for Christianity to survive and prosper, so are knowledgeable Christians an imperative as well.
traci94 says
Johnnie’s comment is so disheartening.
FYI says
“There were christians and Jews” says the Dhimmi christian when muhammed the “prophet” was alive.But it was never a case of tolerance or respect for non-muslims.
muhammed CURSES Jews and Christians {Sahih Bukhari 1:8:427}
the koran CURSES Jews and Christians {koran 9:30}
“Oh ye who believe!Take not the Jews and Christians for friends.They are friends to one another”
koran 5 v 51
A Pluralistic region?Since when has the islamic world ever been “pluralistic”?
Don’t forget the Jizya tax FORCED on non-muslims despite the koranic lie that “there is no compulsion in religion” {koran 2:256}
traci94 says
Here is the contact info for the company that Johnnie founded if anyone would like to tell him how incredibly naive he is:
The company is called The KAIROS Company
https://thekcompany.co/contact/
Carol the 1st says
Worry more for American presidents. It seems he’s been advising them.
Peter says
When Muhammad was alive? Pluralism in Arabia was extinguished by Muhammad. So, this Useful Idiot might want to revise his thought process to “before Muhammad” invented Islam. If Islam was pluralistic and tolerant of non-Muslims, instead of craving their destruction, forced conversion, submission or enslavement, then there would still be indigenous “polytheists,” Jews and Christians in Arabia.
Carol the 1st says
He’s been involved in advising presidents but claims not to be much interested in politics. It seems to show.
gravenimage says
Christian leader meets Middle East rulers: “We want what it was like when Muhammad was alive, a pluralistic region”
Says Johnnie Moore: “All we want is for what it was like when the Prophet Muhammad himself was alive, which was a very pluralistic region. There were Christians and Jews, there were synagogues and there were churches.”
…………………………
Well, yeah–until Muhammed had them all driven out, enslaved, or murdered…
dhimmis have tried appealing to the supposed tolerance of the “Prophet” many times before–needless to say, it has never worked.
Rarely says
Who says there is no humour in islam? They’re killing themselves laughing at this idiot.
As long as he keeps to this line they will probably keep funding his PR company big time. I wonder how many pieces of silver he’s gotten so far.
Plural Mystic says
Yes, the bodies in the mass graves that cropped up whenever Muslims would storm through a town were “very pluralistic”
ntesdorf says
Arabia was a very pluralistic region in the time of Muhammed. There were Christians and Jews, of various sorts, synagogues and churches, but there were no Muslims or mosques as these came along in the next century. Islam was invented to unify the Arabian Empire. We don’t begin to hear about Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, and about Islam itself until about 700 AD, during the reign of the caliph Abd al-Malik, who had unity concerns.
Carol the 1st says
ntesdorf…And so do we take this comment ““All we want is for what it was like when the Prophet Muhammad himself was alive, which was a very pluralistic region. There were Christians and Jews, there were synagogues and there were churches” to be an innocent GAFFE on the part of J. Moore or was it Robert Spencer seeking to mislead us??
clemens says
What kind of Christian leader does not read his bible?
2 John 7-11
For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; 11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
eduardo odraude says
A hadith depicts Muhammad saying: “I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.” (Sahih Muslim 19.4366)
That’s from one of the two authoritative hadith collections. So don’t let anyone tell you “oh, that’s a weak hadith.”
riker says
Ha aah…,this guy is a joke.
Mr. Maxwell S. J. Fenton says
Christians are moulded and taught to embrace suffering, to not challenge or fight but meekly and humbly be subject to secular rule, be that a great leader or evil caliphate, to love their enemies even as they are being killed by them.
How many do this is speculative but the residual effects of such a harsh doctrine appears to have created weak, unresisting lands of lambs to the slaughter.
Isn’t Muhammad the false prophet in scripture? It appears so.
Christians can only appeal to the contemporary secular authorities to use the God given ‘sword’ to defend and protect an indigenous population. Trump apart, the West’s leaders are dhimmi puppets and appeasers with no desire or inclination to fend off Muhammadans, quite the opposite, they chose to persecute and destroy the indigenous people instead. It is far simpler to knock us out one by one then poke and disturb the sensibilities of a community of 1.3 billion. The great serpent!
In the vain hope of avoiding their ire, they chose cowardess, their reward ? An almighty slaughter and enslavement, punishment upon an ungodly and faithless people.
Who dare say our scriptures aren’t TRUE? I see them being fulfilled in front of my own incredulous eyes.
Carol the 1st says
“Is that ME you’re talking to?” – line from Taxi Driver.
james reid says
How innocently naïve & dangerous! Mohammed was only getting about 10followers a year to his ‘new religion’ whilst in Mecca. When he was kicked out of Mecca & went to Medina, that was when he started his true vocation. Thievery, banditry, murder, rape & extortion. Most of his followers were the poor & simply raiding the trading caravans in Arabia gave them a “cut” of the spoils. It’s ridiculously pathetic to think Islam & its followers are innocent travellers in this World. They have their agenda & that is to subjugate everything & everyone that is non-Islamic. Statement of fact. Just look at their texts, FFS!
Dede says
And a USCIRF Commissioner. https://www.uscirf.gov/about-uscirf/johnnie-moore-commissioner
Carol the 1st says
A smiley face can sure cover a lot of sins.
Mark Berlinger says
How is it that an Evangelical reverend and a Catholic bishop have the same misguided faith in ecumenical dialogue and misunderstanding of what Islam was, is, and will ever be when it comes to coexistence?
Medina 627: After the battle the Qurayza Jews who were non-participants in the fight surrendered peacefully to Muhammad. The prophet of Islam had every male with pubic hair (800 to 900 men and boys) and one woman of the tribe beheaded, and the surviving women and children enslaved, raping one woman himself in what Muslim apologists call “same day marriage.”
Jack Cade says
I taunted a Muslim in a Youtube comment in mock support of ‘peaceful Islam’ by posting that Mohamed said to turn the other cheek. He sent me a death threat for insulting the pedophile psychopath Mohamed! (My words, not his!)
Leon Degney says
In my opinion, and the opinion of many others Islam is very mockable, more so than many other “religions” or cults. The beliefs and practices are truly astounding.
Carol the 1st says
They plan to put our sense of humor to rest, and “at peace”.